Dolph Ziggler Discussion: Is He Really Perfection?

[Tenta]

Let me just start off by stating that, no, I don't believe that Dolph should be a main eventer at this moment. He doesn't have the credibility at this juncture in his career, and we haven't seen very much of him in the ring. But consider the following things. First of all, it appears that Edge will be turning face fairly soon, as the seeds were definitely planted last Monday with his tirade on Vickie Guerrero. Smackdown really could use a face, what with what is sure to be Jeff Hardy's departure from Smackdown. Chris Jericho is the best wrestler the WWE has on any roster, and is a lot of the reason why Smackdown has been so fun. But realistically, he's 38, and has stated many a time that he has no interest wrestling when he's 50. He's already taken a hiatus from wrestling due to burnout, and has many other career pursuits he wants to venture towards by the time he retires. CM Punk can make a great heel.... If creative will allow him to be the CM Punk that so many people rant and rave about in Ring of Honor. I personally don't see that, nor do I see being a great heel even if he uses said Ring of Honor style. Thus, it's becoming apparent that soon, Smackdown will need a heel to take over for Jericho and Edge. Not even to be a main eventer, but to be a solid heel that will get a good reaction week in and week out.

Who better than this man?

His name's Dolph Ziggler.

Dolph has taken a gimmick that use to mean absolutely nothing, and has made it work to his character. His gimmick was saying his name, and that was all creative really gave the guy. He took something as simple as saying his name, and has managed to make a pretty good heel character out of it. Something should be said for a guy that make something with absolutely nothing for a character. He makes a very smarmy heel, and has an arrogant style that seems pretty good for garnering heat. Even now, he's taken a feud that has no business being good with The Great Khali, and made it entertaining television. His in ring work is good, and he works a very nice heel style. For me, he's one of the most entertaining characters on Smackdown so far, and could see him getting the upper hand in his feud with Khali, then challenging for the Intercontinental Title. Hell, he could even work in the fact that for about a month, people ignored him. I could see him running a promo in which he only tried to introduce himself to Vince, knowing he'd be the next big superstar, and was ignored. He can talk about how it offended, and how anyone would like to shake his hand now. Smackdown's going to need a heel within the next year or two, I assume, and he should a character that can work decent matches week in and week out. That, my friends, is Dolph Ziggler.

So again..... Fact or Fiction?

 

[Nate DaMac]

Fact. Bet you were expecting to debate you again huh? Well too bad. I agree with you 1000%. But for the sake of argument, I will point out what he has going against him. The gimmick. In all honesty, it's a novelty act. Over time he's gonna have to evolve it into something different. If he becomes a top heel, wouldn't it be safe to say that everyone knows his name? Other than that, you are absolutely right.

 

[ztwhite]

Based on the title of your thread - "Fact or Fiction: Dolph Ziggler Is The Future of Smackdown" - I say fiction.

But based on the info and opinion you expressed in your post - I say fact.

Dolph WILL make a pretty good heel on Smackdown, but he's going to end up the same way a lot of young, athletic and somewhat attractive (I can say that and not get heckled, right ?) wind up - jobbing in main event matches.

A mid card wrestler can't possibly be the future of Smackdown, it has to be a main event player to be dubbed the future.

When you consider the current roster (even though the draft will screw this up in future years), three other guys stick out more so than Ziggler - John Morrison, CM Punk and Edge.

Now I know two of those guys are already main event players, but they are the future of Smackdown. Morrison is already receiving his push and if past accolades determine future outcomes, he'll easily succeed.

I could see Ziggler constantly fighting these three guys over the next couple of years, but I think he'll always job to them in the end.

 

[Tenta]

Fact. Bet you were expecting to debate you again huh? Well too bad. I agree with you 1000%. But for the sake of argument, I will point out what he has going against him. The gimmick. In all honesty, it's a novelty act. Over time he's gonna have to evolve it into something different. If he becomes a top heel, wouldn't it be safe to say that everyone knows his name? Other than that, you are absolutely right.

Nate, you've come to know me far too well.

White, I see where you're getting at, and to some extent, you may be correct, but answer me this... For a wrestler like Dolph, he would have to defeat some of these faces in order to look like a viable main-eventer, which I believe even you have consented at this point. Yes, his gimmick will have to be developed a bit more, but look at what he's already done with something as simple as only having his name. He has already taken using his name, and already expressed the following things to the audience.

1. I'm Dolph Ziggler.
2. I'm better than you.
3. I'm obnoxiously better than you.
4. I'll beat respect out of you until you remember my name.
5. I can wrestle, and I know that so well.
6. I'm still better than you.

As he goes farther up the card, creative will eventually give him more for his character to work with. Sure, when you're lower mid card, you're easy to ignore. But when you become mid card to upper mid card, which even you consented will be the case, it's pretty hard to ignore you, and creative will eventually throw you more than a couple bones. They gave the meager pickings, and look what he's already done with it.

As for the wrestlers, you've mentioned, you're assuming three things that are extremely debatable. Namely,

1. That Edge isn't going to turn face.
2. That CM Punk's heel turn is going to work
3. That John Morrison develops a legitimate persona.

Again, more topics for other threads. For now, let's simply focus on Dolph, and the greatness that could be.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I think the last thing Dolph needs is creative giving him direction. It would do more harm then good. It seems that he is solely responsible for his gimmick startin to garner some attention. I'm hoping that if he is going to turn the corner, he is gonna have to elevate himself on his own. Here's to hoping for a feud with Ziggler and Morrison. Could you imagine the matches and promos these two could pull off together?

 

[ztwhite]

White, I see where you're getting at, and to some extent, you may be correct, but answer me this... For a wrestler like Dolph, he would have to defeat some of these faces in order to look like a viable main-eventer, which I believe even you have consented at this point. Yes, his gimmick will have to be developed a bit more, but look at what he's already done with something as simple as only having his name. He has already taken using his name, and already expressed the following things to the audience.

1. I'm Dolph Ziggler.
2. I'm better than you.
3. I'm obnoxiously better than you.
4. I'll beat respect out of you until you remember my name.
5. I can wrestle, and I know that so well.
6. I'm still better than you.

As he goes farther up the card, creative will eventually give him more for his character to work with. Sure, when you're lower mid card, you're easy to ignore. But when you become mid card to upper mid card, which even you consented will be the case, it's pretty hard to ignore you, and creative will eventually throw you more than a couple bones. They gave the meager pickings, and look what he's already done with it.

As for the wrestlers, you've mentioned, you're assuming three things that are extremely debatable. Namely,

1. That Edge isn't going to turn face.
2. That CM Punk's heel turn is going to work
3. That John Morrison develops a legitimate persona.

Again, more topics for other threads. For now, let's simply focus on Dolph, and the greatness that could be.

Of course Dolph will have to win at some point, everyone HAS to win at some point... unless your name is The Brooklyn Brawler or Iron Mike Sharpe.

But you asked if he WAS the future of Smackdown, not if he'd make a viable wrestler for the future of Smackdown.

Lots of guys take a simple gimmick and convert it into cheap heat with fans. Shelton Benjamin is prime example number one. But superstars take that cheap heat with fans and convert it into pure hatred, ala Chris Jericho. Dolph is nowhere near that level yet.

As for the whole heel or face turns, it doesn't matter if your a heel or face anymore in wrestling. That's a debate for anther thread, but I'll touch on it briefly.

John Cena is arguably the most hated man in the business right now, and he's arguably the most loved one too - he's a face, right ?

The Miz is supposed to be a heel, but he gets cheered beyond belief when he rips on Cena and then he goes out and attacks the largest (size wise) heel on Raw, The Big Show. So is he a heel or a face ?

HHH is beloved no matter whether he's heel or face. Randy Orton gets cheered and booed. Jericho gets cheered and booed. Edge gets cheered and booed. See where I'm going ? Wrestling is different these days. No one and I mean no one hated Hulk Hogan in the 80's... NO ONE !!

Does Dolph have "potential" to be great, of course. But every wrestler has potential until he proves otherwise.

I'm simply answering the question as to whether Dolph is the future of Smackdown and I call bollucks (borrowing a phrase from our friends across the pond).

 

[Tenta]

Of course Dolph will have to win at some point, everyone HAS to win at some point... unless your name is The Brooklyn Brawler or Iron Mike Sharpe.

And I argue he'll wind winning much more than he loses. And look damn good while he does.

But you asked if he WAS the future of Smackdown, not if he'd make a viable wrestler for the future of Smackdown.

Well, in all fairness, if he's one of the top heels on Smackdown, then doesn't that make him the future with Smackdown. Of course, he's not the only wrestler I'd label as the future. Just more so than any other heel that Smackdown has to offer.

Lots of guys take a simple gimmick and convert it into cheap heat with fans. Shelton Benjamin is prime example number one. But superstars take that cheap heat with fans and convert it into pure hatred, ala Chris Jericho. Dolph is nowhere near that level yet.

Well, yeah... But that's exactly why I say the future. Sure he's not at that point yet, but he'll get there. He's only had eight months to work with an otherwise new (and bare bones) gimmick, and has fleshed it out to a credible character. Tell me when you first saw Dolph, you had any belief that he could make anything out of himself with that gimmick. The fact that we're even having this discussion, let alone he hasn't been cut, shows just how good he has become so far. And remember, there once was a point where Chris Jericho, too, used cheap heat. And that one worked out pretty well for him.

As for the whole heel or face turns, it doesn't matter if your a heel or face anymore in wrestling. That's a debate for anther thread, but I'll touch on it briefly.

John Cena is arguably the most hated man in the business right now, and he's arguably the most loved one too - he's a face, right ?

The Miz is supposed to be a heel, but he gets cheered beyond belief when he rips on Cena and then he goes out and attacks the largest (size wise) heel on Raw, The Big Show. So is he a heel or a face ?

HHH is beloved no matter whether he's heel or face. Randy Orton gets cheered and booed. Jericho gets cheered and booed. Edge gets cheered and booed. See where I'm going ? Wrestling is different these days. No one and I mean no one hated Hulk Hogan in the 80's... NO ONE !!

At first I was going to break this part of the argument up wrestler by wrestler, but again, it's really another topic for another time. I'll just sum up my argument as such... Punk's heel turn is going to be all based on how heelish he can act on Smackdown. If he's the Punk that people have seen in ROH (I'll admit I'm not one of them, but I've looked up a promo or two of his. It's not bad, but it's not Jake Roberts, either) I'll but into it. The people that cheer Jericho cheer him because

A. The IWC loves him (as it rightfully should)
B. He's playing his character of a heel so well. (My "Disney Movie" theory. You may hate the villain, but you'll still appreciate the villain because it's so good)
C. they're just stupid

True, we live in a different time. but Ziggler is, at the moment, the heel that does the third best job in garnering heat (behind Jericho and Edge. And I've stated my theory on Edge). Sure, Punk may turn heel, but we really can't predict what effect it's going to have. But regardless, once Y2J is done, and if theoretically, Edge does turn face. And that leaves This Guy.

And as stated before, if he's the second best heel on Smackdown, and he's working in the main events, then he is the future. I'm not sure if he'll win a world title, but he'll be one of the most prominent wrestlers on the brand. Hence, future.

Does Dolph have "potential" to be great, of course. But every wrestler has potential until he proves otherwise.

Fair enough, but Dolph simply has more of it, and has shown it more to great results. Even more so than Shelton Benjamin, or any of the other mid card heels.

I'm simply answering the question as to whether Dolph is the future of Smackdown and I call bollucks (borrowing a phrase from our friends across the pond).

Well I call shenanigans. Dolph Ziggler for the future of Smackdown.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think it is still way to early in his current run with the company to determine whether he is the future of Smackdown. In my opinion he has yet to prove himself as a possible main eventer or even a mid-card wrestler. He is a solid wrestler and does generate some heel heat. But he is no where near the level of Edge and Jericho who are arguably the current top heels in the entire company. Once he is able to generate as much heat as them or at least come close then I think there's a possibility that he could be considered a main event player and more importantly the future of Smackdown. They also need to give him some good mid-card feuds that will give people a reason to care about him and down the road they need to give him a mid-card title and see how good or possibly bad he is with the "ball". Until both, not one but both, of these things happen then I think that I might change my opinion that I currently have of him. But as it currently stands I do no see him as the future of Smackdown, especially with that gimmick he has. There's only so much that he can do with his gimmick until it gets stale, boring, and uninteresting. I think that for now we should just wait and see how he develops his current character before we even start speculating whether he will be a main even player or the future of anything.

 

[Black Snow]

Ziggler has many things working in his favor:
1) He's a very talented wrestler.
2) This is his third gimmick in the WWE and this is the biggest push they've given him so far. In his first match under this gimmick he pushed Batista to the limit. The WWE has also made sure not to mention his past gimmicks. Clearly they want to see this man succeed.
3) He's on SD. While RAW is full of all the so-called big name talent SD is where wrestling reigns supreme and guys who don't normally get a fair shake are allowed to shine.
4) His name is Dolph friggin' Ziggler. How pimp is that?

I believe it's too early to pass judgment but there are a lot of pluses in Ziggler's favor. If he's ever going to succeed the time is now. Given the proper push and a healthy IC title reign Ziggler could actually be the future of the WWE. If I was booking I'd start him out in a similar vein as Cena or Kennedy. Give him a World title shot on PPV. Have him lose but have him take the champion to the limit.

Then give him personal feuds with big names. He doesn't necessarily have to win many of the matches. As long as he stays very competitive and is allowed some mic time he should be able to get over. Once the fans start to dig him and he's still a heel give him the IC title. If all goes well within six months to a year after that first IC title win he'll be ready to main event.

 

[The Palace of Wisdom]

It's another gimmick based on saying his name. Kennedy did it, to pretty decent success at times, and I think Ziggler has a chance to be pretty good.

However, the face of Smackdown is a moot point. Who knows who will be there for a long enough length of time to become a Smackdown guy? You have Edge, Jericho, CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, The Undertaker, Shelton Benjamin, Kane, John Morrison, R-Truth all ahead of Ziggler on the card. The major push right now are Morrison and Punk's, so what is Ziggler supposed to do? He's just going to be a mid-card guy for at least the next year, then we'll see where he goes.

 

[brodymulder]

Too early to tell, but for now I am going with fiction. Ziggler hasn't really shown anything good or bad. To me he is just kind of there. Pretty good talent, though.

 

[joop]

I found his match on smackdown this week to be one of the few refreshing programs in WWE. He is bloody annoying, you know full well he should be losing to Khali, but he finds ways to come out on top. This is just building the crowds desire to see him get his $*^ kicked later on.

Simple heel development, cheating to win, slightly outsmarting the face, and making it so the fans cant wait for the face to get their hands on him

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Fact. Fact. A Thousand times FACT.

How come no one ever checked out my Dolph Ziggler Match Appreciation thread? Bummer. It is probably still lurking around the Spam Zone if anyone wants to read. I doubt it. His work still goes unnoticed by most except those with a keen eye. JohnTenta4HOF being one of them obviously. NateDaMac88 has a valid opinion as well.

Lets look at the facts. His first gimmick? The Spirit Squad. He was stuck with being a stable of male cheerleaders that got humiliated constantly by DX. But he stuck around. Kenny Dykstra couldnt hang. I mean, how much would this gimmick drain your morale?

But Nick Nemeth stuck with it, this alone shows dedication which as JohnTenta4HOF did point out, isnt the case with such wrestlers as Jeff Hardy. He was given a gimmick of introducing himself and saying his name. And he stuck with it. All the way through a terrible year on RAW.

Now on Smackdown he has earnt his chance to shine. ANd he gets put in with the Great Khali. And he makes it work. Even JR said during a broadcast that he'd love to see what he can do with someone his own size. Even JR has faith. He's fun to watch in the ring. He can cut a promo. Should he be given a run with the intercontinental title, on his way to the top of Smackdown?

Mantaur Rodeo Clown seems to think so.

 

[truk24]

At this point I think he is going over well, and I think this feud with Khali will work well enough to put him in the casual fans WWE memory. Instead of Khali I think Ziggler should be making a name on Ortiz. In any case I think he is moving very nicely. Hopefully a feud with Morrison is on the horizon.

 

[Slam Master]

I just posted a new thread about this. I think he has more potential than Morrison from pure wrestling ability and mic skills. Dolph reminds me more of the early Boy Toy HBK with Sherri than Morrison does. Ziggler has a wrestling background and has that unteachable primadonna attitude thats perfect for an int-ring character.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Damn fucking right he is. We all shouldve known when they didnt just release him after his wellness policy strike. We all shouldve known when they put him directly into the fold with Batista, and then to SD (no stop in ECW). We DEFINATELY shouldve known when they put him with the Great Kahli, as they would only put a truly skilled guy with Kahli.

Well, now comes the sweet theme music. and it WAS badass. It might sound silly, but I never took him seriously with his generic comunity college commercial theme. Now he has cool music with words and everything. That is serious buisness. It might seem dumb, you can laugh if you want, but if you look back over time, its a tried and true thing.

Sells well, moves well, and seems to be able to very much able to map out logical spot progression. Im telling you guys, sticking him with Kahli was huge. It forces him to become a ring general early.

Hell yes he is the future. HELL yes he is.

 

[TSG]

I think he could be. I mean, he has the look. I mean, athletic, blond hair? Remind you of anyone? He also has pretty good mic skills. I know he hasn't showed them much, but by what he does say I can tell. He also has very good wrestling ability.

I could just see it working out like this: One night he walks up to a face and goes: Hi, I'm Dolph Ziggler, and I'm Absolutely Perfect. Then every week he goes on rants about how perfect he is and he good do little things like Hennig did back in the day to emphasize it. Or he could do little contests backstage with other wrestlers and be "perfect" in those. And he could go on an undefeated streak in the ring.

I think it would work well. What about you guys.

 

[Joker ' Ferreira]

I don't think so.

At least not with Joe Hennig Jr. at Florida Championship Wrestling it doesn't make sense at all to give a great gimmick to someone like Dolph Ziggler when someone from the same family is already on the roster.

 

[tLight]

I saw him at a house show back in Febuary, and hes really good on the MIC. I wouldnt set him up to be like Mr Perfect though. (didnt they kind of do that with MVP when he feuded with Matt Hardy??) I agree they should keep pushing him as a cocky heel, who thinks hes better than everyone, because the guy is talented. Cant wait to see what they do with him in the future, hopefully he doesnt end up like the rest of the guys from the Spirit Squad

 

[Genocyde]

I saw him at a house show back in Febuary, and hes really good on the MIC. I wouldnt set him up to be like Mr Perfect though. (didnt they kind of do that with MVP when he feuded with Matt Hardy??) I agree they should keep pushing him as a cocky heel, who thinks hes better than everyone, because the guy is talented. Cant wait to see what they do with him in the future, hopefully he doesnt end up like the rest of the guys from the Spirit Squad

Dolph was one of the guys on the Spirit Squad?

 

[tLight]

Dolph was one of the guys on the Spirit Squad?

Nicholas Theodore "Nick" Nemeth[1] (born July 27, 1980)[1][4] is an American professional wrestler, currently working for World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) under the name Dolph Ziggler on the SmackDown brand.[3] He is also known for his performances as Spirit Squad member Nicky from 2006.

Nemeth signed a development contract with WWE in 2004, and was sent to Ohio Valley Wrestling (OVW). He was brought up to the Raw brand in 2005 as Kerwin White's sidekick. He was, however, sent back to OVW shortly afterwards, where he joined the Spirit Squad. They debuted on Raw in January 2006, and won the World Tag Team Championship before returning to OVW that November. In September 2007, Nemeth was assigned to Florida Championship Wrestling, where he formed a tag team with Brad Allen. He returned to Raw as Ziggler in September 2008.

Nemeth is a former World Tag Team Champion as a member of the Spirit Squad, and has also held the FCW Florida Tag Team Championship twice; once with Brad Allen, and once with Gavin Spears.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

I was saying for a while he reminded me of perfect and I kinda marked out when I heard his entrance music tonight. He does have the look and he looks to be taking it seriously, my fingers are crossed.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Dolph Ziggler's made quite a name for himself. He's managed to beat John Morrison, a man who beat CM Punk clean. He's also beaten the Great Khali and is possibly being put in a program with Rey for the IC title. As JR said on Smackdown last week, "If Dolph Ziggler was stock, I'd be buying it like crazy." Fact is, he's made a name for himself when many thought he was going to be 'future endeavored'.

Here's the question. Can Dolph Ziggler actually be pushed to a title run? How long can this run last? Is his gimmick doomed to fail, or can he persevere with his current look?

 

[TheGreat1Lives]

i personally hate ziggler but i guess thats what makes him a great heel. i think he has a bright future he may be even a main event wrestler at one point but thats awhile from now .

 

[Paradox100]

Aw man, It seems like every time you miss a raw or a smackdown, you miss something good. I really wished I saw the Dolph vs. John match. It's weird, i thought the guy would have been future endeavored two or three months ago. He was nothing but a jobber. But, when he came to Smackdown, it seems like he is making an impact. I mean, to beat Morrison, who is being made up to be the future. (which he is) and for a guy like Ziggler to beat him, is very good for him. I mean, if someone beats the world champion cleanly one week, and loses the next week. It says a lot for the guy who won the second match. I personally believe that Ziggler has to change a bit, but believe he can make some kind of future. Oh, and, The Lariat is awesome!