WWE Brass High On Dolph Ziggler: Should They Be?

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I guess he has his fans, so I went with 'Not sure.'

My biggest problem with Dolph isn't that he sounds like his balls aren't hanging or that he has absolutely zero presence. My issue with Dolph is that there is still a MASSIVE disconnect with him and the crowd. Like anyone who has watched him in the past year know he is going to do his damnest to make the match entertaining; But it is really, really hard to give a damn about what is going to happen when he is the first guy out. Even then there are matches that have had dead crowds than not when it comes to Ziggles. People want to boo Vickie, but as we saw when they scaled her back for most of this year and made it more about Ziggles.. People slowly went "Oh fuck it. What's his nuts is on." when it came to Vickie.

Either he doesn't have what it takes to make it big (which is more than bumping like and asshole & doin' movez btw) or it is going to take him a long time to make people care about him. I am leaning towards to former because the guy has been around since 2009..

 

[The Future Rises]

I guess he has his fans, so I went with 'Not sure.'

Like anyone who has watched him in the past year know he is going to do his damnest to make the match entertaining; But it is really, really hard to give a damn about what is going to happen when he is the first guy out.

Well judging by the "This is awesome!" chant and all the "Let's go Ziggler!" chants he got during his run so far and the fact that the crowd isn't dead during his matches I can assure you that people actually care when he's in the ring because he's so damn good at putting on a good show. As for them caring when he's the first guy out I guess not if we're talking about 2009 but I honestly think he's grown on a lot of the casual fans and obviously the IWC fans.

Either he doesn't have what it takes to make it big (which is more than bumping like and asshole & doin' movez btw) or it is going to take him a long time to make people care about him. I am leaning towards to former because the guy has been around since 2009..

Am I the only one who actually thinks Ziggler is finally over with the crowd? He drew great heat with the Mexican crowd, gets a decent reaction every time his music hits, and got major heat when he was confronting Triple H. If he's not already there then it's obvious he will be very soon.

 

[Dynamitekid2012]

I too would like to agree with the most of you. I've thought he's been great. He really just needs a little more mic work and a little character tweak. The guy is the man is the ring!

 

[keehlnate]

No doubt he is one of the best talent inside the ring. His match with Daniel Bryan could easily be one of the top three matches this year. He looks like a complete superstar for me, although he is just busy mid-carding at the moment. Putting him at Vickie makes him really stand out.

 

[iwinulose]

i dont care for ziggler. he seems to be more of a mid-carder, yes a huge mid-card (winning the titles often), maybe even being in main event matches just to add extra spark to the match. idk about him being main event material, but i wouldnt be against him winning major titles here and there. but mid-card for sure. i havent really seen much improvement on dolph zigglers part in the past few years. but he is decent. id say he needs improvement on the mic, but his voice is just really annoying so not much can be done there.

 

[kokoBawesome]

I don't really I think I understand what the fascination is with the guy. Have I missed something? He seems like your average midcard guy. White guy, normal build, short trunks, kind of arrogant. I just described Drew MacIntyre, Alex Riley, Wade Barrett, and Everyone from Nexus. Basically a guy that's following in the footsteps of a long line of douchy guys (Hennig, Michaels, Christian, Jericho blah blah blah). I'm not routing against him, I just haven't found a reason to route for him. Every arrogant wrestler put his own spin on the character, I would just prefer Dolph to have his own spin too. If your telling me his selling point is that he sells to the heavyweights well, than Evan Bourne should be your guy.

I guess let me amend my answer, yes they should be high on him because of his potential. I just don't think I am.

...and I made my point without mentioning his shitty name, awkward hair, silly voice or spirit squad past.

(I did like his matches against Kofi. Kofi has a look tho, bonus points for Kofi.)

 

[MrAdam87]

I voted Yes, this guy has got everything needed in the world of wrestling/entertainment to make it big. All of the 'pro' comments made so far basically sum up all the best attributes about Ziggler, that being his 'selling' ability, the way he can tell a story in the ring and his unique look and name ect. I have been a fan of Zigglers for a while now and this came from the fact that i just plainly enjoyed every match i would see him in week after week.
For those who say his name wouldnt work as a Face and couldn't sell merchandise to kids I disagree and as an example the guys finisher is called "Zig Zag" which shows there are a lot of ways to play on the Ziggler name to adapt to kids but with that being said i would prefer him to remain a Heel.
I think Ziggler is well suited to the mid-card at present and couldn't see him making the jump to any type of main event feud until after WM28 at the very least.
The best thing for Ziggler IMO is to give him the 'slow burn' treatment for a little while from now, as they did with Jericho, Benoit, Angle, Guerrero ect, once these guys begun to make there transitions into the main event but also being able to transition seamlessly back to upper-mid card when the times called for it.
This is how i can best see not only Dolph Ziggler being utilised for the foreseeable future but also Cody Rhodes, with these two young men on the cusps of main event status the WWE can really build up the mid-card title scene (U.S & IC) around the both of them and once again to the level of prestige we all want to see back.

 

[ameer no.1 cena fan]

Of course after letting him win the IC in late 2010, as well as leading the contenders for WHC from The Royal Rumble to Elimination Chamber until they lost him in Wrestlemania where he did nothing important, but revived him at Over the limit and the upcoming pay per views which he has done amazingly in so they believe he could lead the next generation of talented superstars in the ring with his talent on the Mic that keep increasing at this point we will see him headlining this WrestleMania of the pay per Views after it.

 

[drobs85]

According to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, WWE management is said to be very happy and impressed with Dolph Ziggler. The brass is surprised how well Ziggler has progressed during his US title run as a character and feel he comes across like a star. They also acknowledge that he's done a good job carrying matches against Mason Ryan at house shows and on Raw. Ziggler has made Ryan look formidable and impressive despite him being extremely green.

I've been a firm fan of Ziggler since his days as Intercontinental Champion. He progressed nicely in the ring while he was the IC champ and while he was feuding with Edge. As United States Champion, I agree with WWE management in that Ziggler has done a good job of developing himself as a character and on the mic. Personally, I think Ziggler still has some work to do but he's come a long way over the course of about year and a half.

So what do you think? Has your opinion of Ziggler changed to any degree? Do you think management being impressed is ultimately a sign of bigger things to come for Ziggler?

Wow i guess losing every week, or losing more matches than he wins is "high" on a person. I don't know where ziggles goes from here, but how would he be taken as main event material if he loses in the damn mid card more than he wins? But it's not his fault it's booking. No matter what Ziggles does, his fate along with everyone else lies in the hands of Vince and booking. So in other words he will remain in mid card unless he gains weight.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I'm not sure. I can see that he is talented in the ring, but so is John Morrison, Kofi Kingston and the Miz, and yet you people don't have time for any of them.

If it were left to you people, Zack Ryder v Dolph Ziggler would headline Wrestlemania. But neither will do that, IMO. It is good that Dolph has the fans behind him, but he needs more than that.

How many T-shirts would Ziggler sell? How many PPV's would Ziggler headline? Can he appear on talk-shows and make an impression the same way the Miz does? Because this is what is important to Vince McMahon. You may not agree, but he is a millionaire, you're not! So, he will push those who "sell". That is why Cena is main-eventing, selling T-shirts and appearing on shows. Can Dolph transition into these things? Time will tell!

Besides, when were the crowd any good judges? You have some cities where the crowds are dead, no matter who performs. Does that mean everything on the card that night stinks?

How do we know that the crowd reaction isn't directed towards Vickie, since she seems to get more reaction from the crowd than most of the talent, so if Dolph is next to her, you are going to hear that reaction. But who is it for, him or her?

People have also brought up about Spirit Squad. There were fewer more homosexual gimmicks than five male cheerleaders (if they did their cheers one night, and then Goldust joined in, it would be an absolute riot!). Plus they jobbed to DX every week. Five less efficient bodyguards have never been used by Vince McMahon before, where SS came across as bumbling idiots. So, I will give Ziggler credit for being anywhere near relevant after that! He has also survived being a guy whose whole gimmick was to say his name and offer a handshake. Also, I didn't hear this great crowd reaction, when, at one PPV, he had a neverending promo, running down Pat Patterson.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

So what do you think?
Ive loved him since day one, he is perfection.
Has your opinion of Ziggler changed to any degree?
see above
Do you think management being impressed is ultimately a sign of bigger things to come for Ziggler?
Hes already been pushed to the main event, and I bet if Edge didn't have to retire due to his neck injury that Ziggler would still be in the main event spot light on Smackdown. I believe that once he breaks away from Vickie that his stock will sky rocket

 

[matty2thumbs]

Ziggler is quickly becoming my favorite wrestler. He sells better than any other superstar, making others moves look devastating. He embodies "heel". When he and Vickie(who I hate) did commentary I was in tears. Dolph is THE MAN.

 

[Krundell]

I am the biggest Dolph Ziggler mark. He is my favourite wrestler and has been ever since he started feuding with Rey Mysterio for the intercontinental title back in the day.

Back to the topic though. The reason I fell in love with Ziggler, was because of his in-ring ability and look. He just has that look of a potential main-eventer. He was shocking on the mic, but has DRASTICALLY improved since then. His #HEEL segment on ZTLIS is great.

The way he reacts in the ring is great and the reaction he gets from crowds is amazing too. He is truly starting to get heat and this time next year we will HOPEFULLY see Ziggler in the Main event picture. Whether it's for the title or just on the edge. He has proven that he can be there.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I don't really I think I understand what the fascination is with the guy. Have I missed something? He seems like your average midcard guy. White guy, normal build, short trunks, kind of arrogant. I just described Drew MacIntyre, Alex Riley, Wade Barrett, and Everyone from Nexus. Basically a guy that's following in the footsteps of a long line of douchy guys (Hennig, Michaels, Christian, Jericho blah blah blah). I'm not routing against him, I just haven't found a reason to route for him. Every arrogant wrestler put his own spin on the character, I would just prefer Dolph to have his own spin too. If your telling me his selling point is that he sells to the heavyweights well, than Evan Bourne should be your guy.

I guess let me amend my answer, yes they should be high on him because of his potential. I just don't think I am.

...and I made my point without mentioning his shitty name, awkward hair, silly voice or spirit squad past.

(I did like his matches against Kofi. Kofi has a look tho, bonus points for Kofi.)

His "shitty name" is unique and memorable, his "awkward hair" (?????WTF?) makes him stand out. He doesn't just sell well to big guys, he sells well to everyone and everything all the time. He's constantly in character. He looks like if you saw him on the street, he'd be acting the same way. Plus he's apparently technically gifted and is really smart about when he does his moves.

He IS a lot like Evan Bourne only with more credibility because he's bigger. I'm a huge Bourne fan, been following him since Gateway Championship Wrestling (pre ROH). But Bourne isn't believable as a champion.

Drew is really good but doesn't carry himself 100% all the time. Riley is incredibly raw in the ring, on the mic he's good, but he still has that "what move do I do next?" look. Barrett is really really fuckin good too and is about a year away from where Ziggler is.

NOBODY else from Nexus is close to Ziggler's level. They all still look (except DB) like guys playing a character and not the characters themself.

As for the Kofi comments. Kofi has a look. Kofi can't cut a promo worth shit though. He's too nervous to look into the camera. If you can't convey your will to win and confidence as a babyface, that's bad news bears. Although Kofi is one of the guys who does high flying stuff that makes sense in the match and looks natural, not like Morrison's "I'm gonna do a breakdance-like cartwheel before a leg drop for no fuckin reason".

Who's the crazy person who compared Ziggler to JoMo? JoMo does random flips that make no sense and isn't very over despite having a lot of really good opportunities. JoMo also, even though he's been on the show for a long time, still looks scared like he's trying to remember shit, it' why he hides behind so much glamour.

drobs85 do you not get wrestling? Winning and losing isn't important, it's about HOW things are done. If CM Punk won the title and won all the time, his character would suck because he is all about fighting the man. Same with Ziggler, there is tension and turmoil with him and Swagger, they don't communicate well. That's why he's losing. He's stil the US champion, he's still heavily featured.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I am impressed with Ziggler myself. I really think his breakthrough came in Z True LI Story, his ability to be funny and witty were unknown to me and know I've noticed he's tried to be a bit comedic with all of his promos, which I do enjoy.

His in-ring ability is definitely underrated. To me, he's Raw's equivalent of Cody Rhodes. Here's hoping one of those two with the Rumble.

 

[ChristopherKeepsItReal]

Wow i guess losing every week, or losing more matches than he wins is "high" on a person. I don't know where ziggles goes from here, but how would he be taken as main event material if he loses in the damn mid card more than he wins? But it's not his fault it's booking. No matter what Ziggles does, his fate along with everyone else lies in the hands of Vince and booking. So in other words he will remain in mid card unless he gains weight.

Two words. Randy Orton. Don't you remember when he was on a losing streak against somebody who I'd say was equally as over as Ryder back then, Shelton Benjamin. Then after that he had a huge turn around. Why don't you wait till the feud culminates then, tell me if he's doomed or 'remains in the mid-card.'

 

[Born To Fly]

Am I the only one who actually thinks Ziggler is finally over with the crowd? He drew great heat with the Mexican crowd, gets a decent reaction every time his music hits, and got major heat when he was confronting Triple H. If he's not already there then it's obvious he will be very soon.

Ziggler drew great heat in Mexico because he insulted them and said the United States is better. If Rey Mysterio cut the same promo, he'd get booed too. What you saw Ziggler get was cheap heat. True heat is when they just walk out and get booed.

 

[Da Big Champ]

I dont do fave 5s but if I did Dolph Ziggler would be on it. Dolph has showed he can do great things and even manages to look good while loosing. Im not saying Ziggler is like Chris Jericho but I am saying Dolph can lose and still not look too bad. I think its only a matter of time before Dolph is the WWE champion which imo is better than WH championship. For me Dolph has managed to make the US title feel special with his long run and at times I have felt like its better than the WWE championship. Dolph has managed to get over with the crowd and although Vickie is helping with that I feel its just a matter of time before he doesnt need her for heat.

 

[Larry]

I hate to break the general consensus on Dolph Ziggler as most have so much praise for him, but I just don't. At this stage I feel like I have been bombarded with Dolph Ziggler, which I never asked to be. Really, this started when he and Kofi were feuding for the U.S. title for me, having matches every week on both Raw and SmackDown. It was just overkill to me and honestly burnt me out on the guy. Since then I've just wanted to see as little of him as possible. I don't even think he has improved so much, as he's just got more exposure as time has went on. I am also not so sure you can't attribute a lot of that to him being paired with Vickie Guerrero. She is the one getting him over.

His matches are no better, his mic skills are really no better, but he is now surrounded by "The Modern Day Sherri Martel": Vicki Guerrero, a former world champion: Jack Swagger, and the current hottest uprising star in WWE: Cody Rhodes when on SmackDown, unless I missed it, something changed there, and Cody isn't apart of that association anymore. Point is, he has the right people around him now, more exposure, and is being used in a more meaningful way, which to me is all that's changed, not anything about Ziggler himself. He is improved by association. And, bottom line I am still burnt out on him.

The WWE higher ups being high on him really amounts to nothing more than them appreciating their own work. They are the ones who have pushed him, crafted his story line and situations, and are basically just marveling at what they were able to do with a guy who no one cared about not too long ago. Sure, they might see what else they can do with him, but when they truly give him the ball to run with and it becomes ever apparent that he lacks the natural charisma to make people care about what he is doing, is not a draw, and has probably peaked at his potential, it will go back to business as usual.

 

[MJB2527]

Ziggler has always been consistent, for this he is being rewarded with a lengthy title run. Because of his consistency he is able to develop a more dimensional character. He is building on what he is familiar with, notice how he is never trying anything 'out there'. He doesn't have two he realizes the importance of growth.

 

[#1HEEL]

One thing people seem to be overlooking, is that there has been alot of emphasis on the tag titles of late, which is great.

Is Ziggler wins that belt he will hold 2 championships at once. Which will place alot of emphasis on him.

Also, if Ziggler wins the tag belts, then defends his US championship in one night, on PPV that is going to definately propel his stock dramatically! It will push him above the mid card I feel.

I think he will follow a similar path to the Miz with his US championship reign, straight into the main event scene.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I hate to break the general consensus on Dolph Ziggler as most have so much praise for him, but I just don't. At this stage I feel like I have been bombarded with Dolph Ziggler, which I never asked to be. Really, this started when he and Kofi were feuding for the U.S. title for me, having matches every week on both Raw and SmackDown. It was just overkill to me and honestly burnt me out on the guy. Since then I've just wanted to see as little of him as possible. I don't even think he has improved so much, as he's just got more exposure as time has went on. I am also not so sure you can't attribute a lot of that to him being paired with Vickie Guerrero. She is the one getting him over.

His matches are no better, his mic skills are really no better, but he is now surrounded by "The Modern Day Sherri Martel": Vicki Guerrero, a former world champion: Jack Swagger, and the current hottest uprising star in WWE: Cody Rhodes when on SmackDown, unless I missed it, something changed there, and Cody isn't apart of that association anymore. Point is, he has the right people around him now, more exposure, and is being used in a more meaningful way, which to me is all that's changed, not anything about Ziggler himself. He is improved by association. And, bottom line I am still burnt out on him.

The WWE higher ups being high on him really amounts to nothing more than them appreciating their own work. They are the ones who have pushed him, crafted his story line and situations, and are basically just marveling at what they were able to do with a guy who no one cared about not too long ago. Sure, they might see what else they can do with him, but when they truly give him the ball to run with and it becomes ever apparent that he lacks the natural charisma to make people care about what he is doing, is not a draw, and has probably peaked at his potential, it will go back to business as usual.

Yea because a great storyline and push is all it takes to get over. It's why Swagger, Morrison, and Dibiase are over. Are you nuts?

Ziggler does the little things most of you don't see. He has VERY detailed selling which makes his matches believable and the way he moves, talks, etc is all in character, much like Rhodes. Someone else on here said he's the Raw Rhodes, which is true.

A push and a story don't get guys over. Ziggler will get over with what they give him and he'll get whoever else he's with over. They didn't put Swagger with ziggler to get Ziggler more over and "surround him with Vickie and a former champ" they did it to get SWAGGER more over because Swagger was losing steam.

Ziggler's promos are the only thing lacking, which they're above average. However, his promo in Mexico was fantastic, he's confident, he's energetic, and he looks like that is who he is.

I'm honestly really surprised more IWC people aren't on this guys' nuts. Fairly average sized but super athletic, can do any move there is, and is a cocky heel? That's like the prototype to get over with the IWC.

 

[Larry]

Yea because a great storyline and push is all it takes to get over. It's why Swagger, Morrison, and Dibiase are over. Are you nuts?

Ziggler does the little things most of you don't see. He has VERY detailed selling which makes his matches believable and the way he moves, talks, etc is all in character, much like Rhodes. Someone else on here said he's the Raw Rhodes, which is true.

A push and a story don't get guys over. Ziggler will get over with what they give him and he'll get whoever else he's with over. They didn't put Swagger with ziggler to get Ziggler more over and "surround him with Vickie and a former champ" they did it to get SWAGGER more over because Swagger was losing steam.

Ziggler's promos are the only thing lacking, which they're above average. However, his promo in Mexico was fantastic, he's confident, he's energetic, and he looks like that is who he is.

I'm honestly really surprised more IWC people aren't on this guys' nuts. Fairly average sized but super athletic, can do any move there is, and is a cocky heel? That's like the prototype to get over with the IWC.

Who is to say that Ziggler is over? Let's just start there. There's a buzz on the net over him with a few fanboys, but as far as him being over I think that's questionable. Once again look back at his associations. Is he getting heel heat because he's so great as a heel, or does it maybe have more to do with being surrounded by the biggest heat getter in WWE: Vickie Guerrero, and another guy who got plenty of heat ON HIS OWN I might add, Jack Swagger, and to further it, Cody Rhodes who has generated his own heat as well?

Without that, Ziggler has been less successful than Swagger and Morrison, and more in league with the likes of Ted Dibiase. That's not me making anything up either, that's just track record. So when the situation changes, he starts getting put on tv relentlessly and surrounded by figures that have all been more successful than he has, what other conclusion might you come to?

I have an eye for wrestling, I get the subtleties of Ziggler's craft, and who ever said he wasn't at least good at what he does in the ring? That's not what I have questioned here. As far as your proclamations that pushes and storylines don't get people over, I'd return to your wrestling almanac on that one. Dolph has been getting a massive push, as this is a time where the WWE needs to make new stars and they know it.

They are putting massive resources behind making him, and without that there are few guys who can truly get over on their own. This isn't exclusive to Dolph Ziggler. Fact remain, without them plastering him all over tv against Kofi, surrounding him with a good cast, and devoting a good chunk on air time to help him get over, he's another guy on the roster not making it.

I'd fact check yourself too on the Guerrero/Swagger point as well. Swagger has been used consistently over the last year, and while he may not be in the graces he once was in the title picture they've never left him out. Ziggler on his own is not very imposing, but with Swagger behind him ,suddenly he's a force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't downplay Vickie Guerrero either. Before she came a long no one was paying attention to anything Ziggler was doing, and it's only been since she has been at his side that the tides have turned to any form of greatness. That's what she does, she makes heels get over because she draws the heat for them. Like I said, the modern day Sheri Martel.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by not saying a number of flattering things about your boyfriend but that's the way I feel. I am burnt out on him, I don't think he's some great next generation superstar(definitely not WHC or WWE title material, especially in Vince's eyes) and I'm pretty positive that when this run ends and he is in the same place he started, the WWE will decide not to do anything more with him, or to keep attempting to make him some big star. I don't think some of the intangibles are there that one generally needs to be a big star. If that bothers you, give him a few lessons since you seem to know so much more about it than I do.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Who is to say that Ziggler is over? Let's just start there. There's a buzz on the net over him with a few fanboys, but as far as him being over I think that's questionable. Once again look back at his associations. Is he getting heel heat because he's so great as a heel, or does it maybe have more to do with being surrounded by the biggest heat getter in WWE: Vickie Guerrero, and another guy who got plenty of heat ON HIS OWN I might add, Jack Swagger, and to further it, Cody Rhodes who has generated his own heat as well?

Without that, Ziggler has been less successful than Swagger and Morrison, and more in league with the likes of Ted Dibiase. That's not me making anything up either, that's just track record. So when the situation changes, he starts getting put on tv relentlessly and surrounded by figures that have all been more successful than he has, what other conclusion might you come to?

I have an eye for wrestling, I get the subtleties of Ziggler's craft, and who ever said he wasn't at least good at what he does in the ring? That's not what I have questioned here. As far as your proclamations that pushes and storylines don't get people over, I'd return to your wrestling almanac on that one. Dolph has been getting a massive push, as this is a time where the WWE needs to make new stars and they know it.

They are putting massive resources behind making him, and without that there are few guys who can truly get over on their own. This isn't exclusive to Dolph Ziggler. Fact remain, without them plastering him all over tv against Kofi, surrounding him with a good cast, and devoting a good chunk on air time to help him get over, he's another guy on the roster not making it.

I'd fact check yourself too on the Guerrero/Swagger point as well. Swagger has been used consistently over the last year, and while he may not be in the graces he once was in the title picture they've never left him out. Ziggler on his own is not very imposing, but with Swagger behind him ,suddenly he's a force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't downplay Vickie Guerrero either. Before she came a long no one was paying attention to anything Ziggler was doing, and it's only been since she has been at his side that the tides have turned to any form of greatness. That's what she does, she makes heels get over because she draws the heat for them. Like I said, the modern day Sheri Martel.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by not saying a number of flattering things about your boyfriend but that's the way I feel. I am burnt out on him, I don't think he's some great next generation superstar(definitely not WHC or WWE title material, especially in Vince's eyes) and I'm pretty positive that when this run ends and he is in the same place he started, the WWE will decide not to do anything more with him, or to keep attempting to make him some big star. I don't think some of the intangibles are there that one generally needs to be a big star. If that bothers you, give him a few lessons since you seem to know so much more about it than I do.

I agree that the true test will be to see him without Vickie. However, they are definately going that route. They've planted the seeds for Ziggler to get away from them. Morrison has never been more than midcard over. Ziggler really hasn't either. He's been with Vickie for a long time, especially most of his time when he's grown. So it's sort of like rewriting history when you say where he'd be. Maybe, maybe not. Fact is, he has all the tools to be very good and a lot of people who know more about wrestling than you or me see it.

you talk about all the resources behind him, however, he still has to do the work. The WWE researches "overness" better than we possibly can. If he wasn't getting more over while being pushed more, it would have been shifted to someone else.