Dolph Ziggler

[litarock82]

Ok, i usually dont post forums that much but i feel i need to scratch a certain itch! Every day there is a new thread about how good ryder is, when did you start liking ryder, will ryder win the title soon, pfft who gives a shit
I am not a big fan of Zack Ryder, i do think he has potential to be a main event player
Why is no one giving dolph ziggler the credit he deserves, sure theres a few whos better ziggler or rhodes threads every now and then but dolph ziggler is easily the best thing WWE has going right now.
Every week he is showing more and more personality, his matches are always 5 stars! I personally watch raw online just for zigglers matches, IMO ziggler will lose the us title at tlc to ryder and ziggler will win the royal rumble, there is no doubt that ziggler wont win the rumble. We have had way too many returning winners in the last few years and way too many rumble winners losing at wrestlemania.
So my point is, what are your opinions on Dolph Ziggler?
and do you feel WWE should pull the trigger and give him the rumble and wrestlemania push?

 

[asslber]

The slow build that the WWE is doing with Dolph Ziggler and Zack Ryder is just fine. I'm a huge fan of both of them, and it's only a matter of time until Ziggler is in the main event and Zack Ryder is the United States champion.

However, I do think that your post is a bit too bias. Every single Dolph Ziggler match a 5-Star? I don't know about that. Not saying he doesn't have incredible matches, 'cause he does, but to say that all of his matches are 5/5 rating is a bit much, imho.

 

[The Future Rises]

Dolph Ziggler, in my opinion, is an incredible talent and he's definitely in my top 3. He has great solid ring skills and a good personality to go with it. For those of you who always say Ziggler has a bland persona and that he can't get a crowd reaction, stop living in 2009. He has amazingly improved his mic work and every promo he cuts nowadays is a very good one.

As for the Rumble/Mania push I'm not sure if the WWE would trust Ziggler with that kind of push. Sure, he's proved time and time again that he can go in the ring with the best and outperform them but it looks like the Rumble this year is going to Sheamus. Ziggler is definitely a high candidate for last 2/3 in the Rumble but I just don't think he'll win it. Although a Punk/Ziggler Wrestlemania match would be gold.

 

[litarock82]

100% agree with the poster above
although i really dont want sheamus to win the rumble cause i cant stand him, i feel ziggler has the look, and the talent to pull off a major push, like you said punk ziggler at wrestlemania would be gold, wwe has not got a defined top heel, ziggler could fill that void

 

[Azane]

Ziggler is being bread and brought up like a Legend.
If they just push him into the ME, he'll fizzle and burnout, and we'll see less of him.

He makes the US title look important, which also helps grow Ryder with their current ''feud''.

And Dolph gets a lot of credit on these boards, I see his names a dozen times a week.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Ok, i usually dont post forums that much but i feel i need to scratch a certain itch!

Next time use a back-scratcher, or if you're really desperate and it's in a hard to reach place, ask a friend.

Every day there is a new thread about how good ryder is, when did you start liking ryder, will ryder win the title soon, pfft who gives a shit

I'm not the biggest Ryder fan in the world, as I've said in full in the various threads, but I think quite a few people "give a shit" actually. I don't know if you remember the "We Want Ryder" chants filling up Madison Square Garden...but they were kind of a big deal. Also, at the time of my writing this there are currently TWO threads about Ryder on the Raw non-spam section. Pretty sure more Cena threads have been deleted in that time frame...

I am not a big fan of Zack Ryder, i do think he has potential to be a main event player

So...you kind of "give a shit" then?

Why is no one giving dolph ziggler the credit he deserves

Every Ryder thread I read is split about 50/50 between people like are obsessed with him, and people that "don't get it, but respect what he's accomplished". Right now everyone is on board with Ziggler. Haven't seen a thread post or talked to a single person who doesn't think ZIggler has what it takes to be a main event guy. If anything, Ziggler has probably received more credit than he deserves...

dolph ziggler is easily the best thing WWE has going right now.

I might agree with him being the best thing going, but not the term "easily". At least not your definition of the word anyway... I think CM Punk has probably done a few things in the last six months to get at least a bit of recognition, and with Cody Rhodes pulling the best work of his career...it's not as "easy" as I think you want it to be.

IMO ziggler will lose the us title at tlc to ryder and ziggler will win the royal rumble

I wouldn't be surprised if Ziggler lost the title to Ryder at TLC. They seem to be building in that direction, and trying to make Ryder seem like a viable contender by giving him wins with some pretty high profile stars. So I'll give you that one... But I doubt very much that he actually wins the Rumble in 2012. I think he could come down to the final 2 or 3, but he won't win. Most of that guess is based off the insider info we have about a Smackdown star winning the Rumble, but that was back when Cena/Rock was supposed to be for the WWE title... I guess anything is possible at this point. Ziggler could potentially win and cash in on a Smackdown champion!

there is no doubt that ziggler wont win the rumble.

You may want to take a look at that sentence again...

We have had way too many returning winners in the last few years and way too many rumble winners losing at wrestlemania.

Cena and Edge both returned from injury to win the Rumble, yes. Alberto del Rio did not. Undertaker did not. Randy Orton did not. Rey Mysterio did not. Batista, Benoit, and Lesnar did not. And as for Rumble winners losing at Mania...I'm not really upset about that. I think it shows that they can actually book semi-creatively, and that the winner isn't always magically super-powered, and must win at all costs...

So my point is, what are your opinions on Dolph Ziggler? and do you feel WWE should pull the trigger and give him the rumble and wrestlemania push?

Love Dolph Ziggler. As I already said, I think he may just be the best thing going in pro wrestling right now... Great charisma, fantastic ring work for a WWE star, and only getting better every week. Should they pull the trigger, give him the Rumble win, and let him go to WrestleMania to face the champion? I honestly haven't given it much thought because so much else is going on in the main event spots...but yeah! Think about it, it's actually the perfect year to experiment with younger talent.

Ziggler/Punk at Mania would be a whole lot more entertaining than Miz/Punk in my opinion, and with Rock/Cena as the main event they don't have to worry about ticket sales falling through because they lack the "big title match". Punk has already proven by this point that he can draw just as well as the other top guys (or at least that the fans are going to watch no matter what...), and there's nobody else on the Raw roster I'd like to see get the shot more than Ziggler. If you have Bryan cash in MITB on the Smackdown champion, and Ziggler cash in the Rumble on Punk, plus Cena/Rock in the main event...that's a damn good card right there. So yes, why the heck not...

Sorry for kinda going off on you. You went to too many unnecessary extremes and Ryder didn't even need to be brought up to get your point across. A simple "should Ziggler win the Rumble" thread would have been nice...

 

[S.J. Maximus]

I'm sorry but Ziggler simply isn't charismatic enough to be a main event star, at least not alone. Maybe with Vickie he can pull it off, but the fact remains that Dolph Ziggler has never drawn heat on the mic unless Vickie speaks before him, which still doesn't compare to the heat Vickie gets. In the ring he's one of the best, don't get me wrong but ask Shelton Benjamin how far you can get with great ring skills and poor charisma? Ziggler isn't over, the only reactions he's ever gotten are from the people around him (Vickie, or when he faces a top face like Orton or even Ryder now). Ziggler should stay in the midcard where he belongs, that's not a bad thing he's just not main event material

 

[Amarillo del Bosque Verde]

I'm sorry but Ziggler simply isn't charismatic enough to be a main event star, at least not alone. Maybe with Vickie he can pull it off, but the fact remains that Dolph Ziggler has never drawn heat on the mic unless Vickie speaks before him, which still doesn't compare to the heat Vickie gets. In the ring he's one of the best, don't get me wrong but ask Shelton Benjamin how far you can get with great ring skills and poor charisma? Ziggler isn't over, the only reactions he's ever gotten are from the people around him (Vickie, or when he faces a top face like Orton or even Ryder now). Ziggler should stay in the midcard where he belongs, that's not a bad thing he's just not main event material

Which is why he got people chanting his name in England and at MSG? And why he gets huge heat when he himself is on the mic on a regular Raw?
The dude is definitely a future main eventer. He's one of the top talents in the WWE right now and has enough charisma to get by, which I'm sure he can improve. They're obviously slow-building him to the top.
Also, I think Ryder can be a main eventer in the future too. Maybe a slower build, but he has the charisma and mic skills. And he's decent in the ring.
So yeah, Ziggler > Ryder. But Ryder is still awesome.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Not on Ziggler gravy train yet, he's good, reminds me of the early cocky Randy Orton. I remember praising one of his matches earlier in the year saying that his in-ring tempo is great, but for me the one major f*ck up, his name. Maybe I'll get past it but unless Santino becomes his personal ring announcer and calls him "Adolph-a", I don't think I'll get over the fact that that good piece of talent is called Ziggler. Just can't for now.

 

[a member of wwe universe]

Which is why he got people chanting his name in England and at MSG? And why he gets huge heat when he himself is on the mic on a regular Raw?
The dude is definitely a future main eventer. He's one of the top talents in the WWE right now and has enough charisma to get by, which I'm sure he can improve. They're obviously slow-building him to the top.
Also, I think Ryder can be a main eventer in the future too. Maybe a slower build, but he has the charisma and mic skills. And he's decent in the ring.
So yeah, Ziggler > Ryder. But Ryder is still awesome.

MSG and England are filled with more passionate fans, or more IWC. So its no surprise ziggler gets reaction. But in general, his personality and mic skill still need some more polishing.
I would like to see him ditch vicky guerrero and hold on his on own permanently to see if people truly care about him without the heat magnet of vicky.
Kind of like the miz when he was US champion. If ziggler can be partially as good or if not just as good as the miz, in terms of mic skill and draw heat, then i have no problem of him main eventing.

So far right now ziggler is a great midcarder, but not that top midcarder waiting for world title shot yet.

 

[Brahma Bull]

Another iwc ******* fest i see. The guy is incapable of getting heat on his own. The only reason people boo him is because he is standing next to the wrestling devil herself in Vicky. He is amazing in the ring, ill give you that, but so was someone else. S. J. Maximus pointed it out but do people remember Shelton Benjamin? The IWC also seemed to always get hard over this guy, yet he could never break through to the main event because his mic skills and charisma were shit. Ziggler just seems way to bland for me. Ive seen his character 4683472348 times, and he doesnt pull it off any better. Until i see Ziggler do decently without Vicky, I'll just chalk this up to the iwc loving something and thinking he is better than he his. The guy is right where he needs to be, in the mid card occasionally jobbing to Santino Marella.

 

[metalbass]

Ziggler is almost like a modern day Mr. Perfect with less mic skills and charisma. He's a great talent and puts on some great matches sometimes, but he has his stinkers thrown in there too. There is no doubt he has brought a ton of credibility to the US Title, but as him being the top dog in the company, I just don't see it yet.

Edited to add: Mr. Perfect was a great in ring talent and character that never held the WWF title, nor did he really need the title. I wonder if the same parallel could be said for Dolph Ziggler?

 

[The Future Rises]

I'm sorry but Ziggler simply isn't charismatic enough to be a main event star, at least not alone. Maybe with Vickie he can pull it off, but the fact remains that Dolph Ziggler has never drawn heat on the mic unless Vickie speaks before him, which still doesn't compare to the heat Vickie gets. In the ring he's one of the best, don't get me wrong but ask Shelton Benjamin how far you can get with great ring skills and poor charisma? Ziggler isn't over, the only reactions he's ever gotten are from the people around him (Vickie, or when he faces a top face like Orton or even Ryder now). Ziggler should stay in the midcard where he belongs, that's not a bad thing he's just not main event material

Again, just like I said in my first post guys like you who say Ziggler doesn't have any charisma need to stop living in 2009. He's actually become one of the better promo cutters. And the whole "Ziggler isn't over" thing again? Really? Can you even tell if the heat he gets is from Vickie anymore? No. Because they rarely let him speak without Vickie introducing him. I remember Vickie trying to introduce Dolph only for Ziggler to come out on his own while talking on the mic to cut a promo and he got a good amount of heat from the crowd, without even Guerrero saying his name. The whole "Ziggler is bland" "Ziggler has no charisma" and "He just can't get heat without Vickie" thing just needs to stop. I don't know if you noticed or not but Zigger has been taking WAY more than Vickie recently and he's getting way more heat right now than he's ever gotten.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Yeah, I'm sorry but Ziggler does draw heat by himself now without Vickie and he's consistently improving on the mic. He doesn't draw the kind of heat Vickie does, nobody does, but to try and say that he doesn't generate a good, solid response from the live crowd is pure and utter nonsense. If this was 2009, I'd 100% agree but it isn't. It never ceases to amaze me how many people just flat out start hating on a guy, no matter how talented he is or promise he shows, whenever he looks like he's heading to the main event picture. It happens EVERY...SINGLE...TIME a wrestler significantly gains ground in WWE.

Anyone who tries to say Ziggler can't wrestle is either blind or has no idea what good wrestling is, and the same can be said of anyone trying to deny that Ziggler has improved considerably over the course of the past year or so. I'm not saying Ziggler is the end all and be all of pro wrestling but, shit people, how about actually giving someone with some talent some legitimate credit? I know it goes against the IWC creed of hate, hate again and then hate some more after that but it's just how it is.

As for Ziggler & Ryder, I've no problem with Ziggler ultimately dropping the United States Championship to Ryder if it means he's headed for the main event picture. The WWE has used Ziggler's time as United States Champion to build him as a character and actually give him some form of presence. He still has some work to do in my opinion, but he's getting there. Ryder is heavily over with fans, he sells a lot of merchendise, the guy is charismatic and he's pretty decent inside the ring. He's definitely paid his dues in WWE and has worked hard to get himself over. I don't think he's all that great, at least not as much as he's hyped by some, but he's a guy that does have talent.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I think Ziggler has improved tremendously since his days in the Spirit Squad. He no longer needs Vickie as a manager and is able to get heel heat on his own. Ziggler often puts on good matches on Raw as well as PPV's. I believe it is time to push him to the main event level. He may not be ready for a Rumble win or a Wrestlemania title match just yet but WWE should push him up the card into the WWE Championship scene due to him being ready now but also the fact that he would be someone new. That is what the main event tier needs at the moment.

 

[Shades]

Most people like Ryder because of his YouTube show. That's why they're building up a story line with him.

I, personally, don't like Dolph Ziggler. He's a great United States champion, but, I don't think he should be anything more than that. It's just my opinion.

 

[H33LTurn]

Theres no doubt that Ziggler is at the top of his game. His matches are 5 stars but I would like to see some more personality from him. Not just screaming "show-off" after a match, I' talking about actual promos on a weekly basis. As far as winning the Rumble, I dont think so. Hes been in the midcard for so long that he still feels a bit green. They should build him up nice and slow for the main even just to balance it out. But yeah, I get your point, it is unfair to give so much attention to a guy like Ryder (someone people only started giving credit to because he made some youtube vids) and not give Ziggler his due credit.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Another iwc ******* fest i see. The guy is incapable of getting heat on his own. The only reason people boo him is because he is standing next to the wrestling devil herself in Vicky.

Yeah, he just came out to a pop in Madison Square Garden despite playing a face and has gotten good heat for about the past two months straight everytime he features on either RAW or Smackdown. He made a promo two weeks ago and garnered good heat, don't know what show you're watching.

Dolph Ziggler is doing everything right. He's getting his name out there, he has a good look, his microphone skills have improved a tremendous amount since he was drafted to RAW, he draws his own heat now which is good as it was his main negative when he was on Smackdown. In-ring talent, he stands near enough alone, the dude is on metaphorical fire right now. The reason he came out to cheers at Madison Square Garden was because of the fans in it, someone said that it was because most of the MSG crowd are passionate? No, most of that crowd just recognize the guys ability and it is becoming his problem. He does so well in the ring and puts on matches of such an entertainment value it's hard to dislike him.

Only real thing I dislike about what he's currently doing is his use of the word "Heel." That's a kayfabe word for a bad guy, yet he has it on his Twitter, on his jacket and even on his boots and tights. Using that word kind of makes it look like he's trying too hard, however I imagine he'll drop that sooner than later.

And just to the OP, I too dislike Zack Ryder. However, there are threads made weekly praising Dolph Ziggler, maybe if you'd had a look around you could have caught one of them instead coming across as if we're ignoring him. Trust me, we're not, we're just waiting for him to continue improving until he hits his stride.

And all directions point that whenever he loses the United States Championship, which by the way he has done brilliantly while holding, the best US Champion in years, he'll be placed into the Main Event, because he's standing out too much in the mid-card.

 

[ScottishWrestlingFan]

This is my breakdown of what i think of Dolph Ziggler

Ziggler in my opinion is the BEST seller of a move in the company.

When i first came back into wrestling after an absence of viewing I became aware of Dolph Ziggler. Not because he was winning, or title grabbing, or even being much of a heel or a face. Simply because i LOVED the way he took a hit. He makes Big guys look really powerful, small guys look incredibly agile and everything in between. He didn't over sell smaller moves and really showed off bigger moves and finishers. This to this day is still true and if anything has improved more.

Ziggler is in my opinion still learning on the mic

I am in no way saying he is bad on the mic here. Ziggler recently has been doing SOLID Promo work recently and is really doing a good job of working up a crowd and developing a feud with Zack Ryder. Yes people will always argue that Vikki has helped, it would be foolish to deny it. But when he has been given the mic and even in ring, he has shown he can talk a good game.

The reason i say he is still learning is simply because he is and i am very much of the opinion his Mic work and Promo work will get so much better than it already is. Some guys have limits to what they can do at about his current level, he can go far beyond in my opinion, so i am fascinated to see if he lives up to what i think.

Dolph Ziggler is not being pushed too quickly

He is working himself up slowly, which not only helps him build a fan base, but in my opinion helps him build people around him and the titles he is hovering about, chasing or holding. Which is important for everyone around wrestling in my opinion, from fan to CEO.

He has years to become what he wants to be and by doing it slightly slower than others he will hopefully not become stale like some superstars sometimes can

Dolph Ziggler has a strong moves list and an expanding one

again its been a steady build of moves for him over time, but a good selection of kicks, clotheslines, neckbreakers etc make him interesting to watch as he doesn't get sucked into the "5 move of doom" area.

He also has 2 finishers that don't require build up or a taunt. One being a submission which is a huge bonus to me as it gives his wrestling that extra depth that can add to storylines if needed.

--------------------

On a final note i like the fact they are moving him away from the "perfection" thing. Simply on the fact that the perfection thing shouldn't be so openly used when it was done by one of the greatest wrestlers in the history of the company and Pro Wrestling.