WWE Wrestlemania XXVII Live Discussion

[Uncle Sam]

Pretty good show all around. Biggest tool of the the night, was that jackass with the throwback Hawks jersey sitting front row, even changed jerseys to a throwback Lebron Cavs jersey for the Miz/Cena match, obviously he was supporting Miz there, but was just acting like a fool all night.

He was there last year too. His girlfriend caught Cena's shirt. They were jumping around like spastics.

 

[Shocky]

That assholes been there 3 years in a row in the same damn seat. I don't know who he's sucking off, but apparently he's doing a good job.

KB, the story is going to be the same. Hell, it's been the same pretty much since Orton made it a point to go solely after the Streak at Wrestlemania 21. The Streak is going to be the focal point, and the WWE is going to sell that every year.

The casuals ate it up, the live crowd ate it up, it's a formula that works. Is it repetitive, sure. This was the 19th Undertaker match at Wrestlemania, and went into a direction I wasn't expecting, and I thought it worked well.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

What Taker/Triple H also did was create the feeling that next year could truly be it for Taker.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's a shame that spot where Triple H speared Undertaker into the "Cole Mine" went a little awry.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Translation: a weaker version of the Shawn/Taker series. That's hardly a great story, especially when the ending was never in doubt, at least not while I watched it.

and this is where we completely disagree, and I'm surprised you're being so hesitant to think for a second that this streak won't end.

I actually thought it could end. Why? Not because I'm a mark, but because Taker is going to retire eventually, and Taker WILL retire on his back (he's too loyal to the company not to), and likely at Mania where he's "unbeatable." Triple H didn't do it, and now I expect it to be Cena next year.

And to say that the streak was never in jeopardy last night is bullshit and you know it. Just because you're jaded and refuse to admit the possibility of defeat means you're intentionally underrating the match. Triple H MADE people believe that he was gonna defeat Taker.

And to deny the story of the match is equally bullshit. So much so that you in fact admit right after being called out on it that there WAS a story, you just didn't like it. There's a HUGE difference between not LIKING a story and not HAVING one. This match HAD one, you just didn't like it.

 

[klunderbunker]

That was more or less exactly what I was expecting. The lack of any real build until Monday and the lack of a surprise or HHH having anything other than the Pedigree hurt it. Good match, not a classic though.

 

[klunderbunker]

and this is where we completely disagree, and I'm surprised you're being so hesitant to think for a second that this streak won't end.

I actually thought it could end. Why? Not because I'm a mark, but because Taker is going to retire eventually, and Taker WILL retire on his back (he's too loyal to the company not to), and likely at Mania where he's "unbeatable." Triple H didn't do it, and now I expect it to be Cena next year.

And to say that the streak was never in jeopardy last night is bullshit and you know it. Just because you're jaded and refuse to admit the possibility of defeat means you're intentionally underrating the match. Triple H MADE people believe that he was gonna defeat Taker.

And to deny the story of the match is equally bullshit. So much so that you in fact admit right after being called out on it that there WAS a story, you just didn't like it. There's a HUGE difference between not LIKING a story and not HAVING one. This match HAD one, you just didn't like it.

Never once on a near fall did I not have "and of course it gets two" written in the review before it happened and never once did I think to myself "nah it couldn't happen....could it?". Thanks for telling me what i was thinking though.

 

[Blue Chipper]

I'm glad I didn't purchase this one. This is the first time in eight years that I've not watched Mania live. Good choice making on my part; this sounded like a horrible show that didn't bring the usual pageantry or good matches.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Never once on a near fall did I not have "and of course it gets two" written in the review before it happened and never once did I think to myself "nah it couldn't happen....could it?".

Exactly why you're being jaded here. To think that it's impossible for Triple H to beat him simply because he's (at the time) 18-0 is bullshit. I seriously thought you were better then that.

Thanks for telling me what i was thinking though.

Good thing I never said that. All I said is that your thinking was based on jaded. There was no reason to think Triple H COULDN'T win the match. WWE never gave us a reason to think that. You can base it off of some bullshit about it being impossible for Taker to lose.

And I love how once someone called you out for blatantly denying that there was a story, you refuse to even acknowledge that there WAS a story, you just ignore it.

Again, this wasn't a mat classic like HBK/Taker I and II. This was a brawl, and a GREAT one at that. 2 men gave it literally EVERYTHING they had, and the match was BRILLIANT. Hell, it's probably the WWE match of the year, and it damn well should be so far.

 

[Stormtrooper]

I'm glad I didn't purchase this one. This is the first time in eight years that I've not watched Mania live. Good choice making on my part; this sounded like a horrible show that didn't bring the usual pageantry or good matches.

buy the DVD. You'll be ecstatic. Watching it like it was only a solid show. Watching it again the show gets better by a ton. The rewatchability of this show is awesome.

 

[Blue Chipper]

Exactly why you're being jaded here. To think that it's impossible for Triple H to beat him simply because he's (at the time) 18-0 is bullshit. I seriously thought you were better then that.


Good thing I never said that. All I said is that your thinking was based on jaded. There was no reason to think Triple H COULDN'T win the match. WWE never gave us a reason to think that. You can base it off of some bullshit about it being impossible for Taker to lose.

In the History of Wrestlemania, a WWE produced DVD, the staff and superstars agreed that the streak should never be broken.

 

[klunderbunker]

Exactly why you're being jaded here. To think that it's impossible for Triple H to beat him simply because he's (at the time) 18-0 is bullshit. I seriously thought you were better then that.

Ok, so you say I'm jaded. I say I'm logical. The Streak is going to end at the hands of someone young, not someone in their 40s. Never once thought otherwise and what a shock KB is right again.

Good thing I never said that. All I said is that your thinking was based on jaded. There was no reason to think Triple H COULDN'T win the match. WWE never gave us a reason to think that. You can base it off of some bullshit about it being impossible for Taker to lose.

And I love how once someone called you out for blatantly denying that there was a story, you refuse to even acknowledge that there WAS a story, you just ignore it.

Again, this wasn't a mat classic like HBK/Taker I and II. This was a brawl, and a GREAT one at that. 2 men gave it literally EVERYTHING they had, and the match was BRILLIANT. Hell, it's probably the WWE match of the year, and it damn well should be so far.

No all you did was tell me I never thought something. That's not at all saying what I'm thinking. Give me a break.

Sure there was a reason for it. What would you call it when Shawn says "You can't do it?" That's not WWE telling us HHH can't do it? What would you call it then? A pasta recipe?

Finisher, rest, finisher, rest, finisher, rest, isn't a story. It's showing a lack of a story and saying that it was just the same stuff over and over again.

Brilliant? That tells me you have a very limited knowledge of what you're talking about.

 

[Stormtrooper]

In the History of Wrestlemania, a WWE produced DVD, the staff and superstars agreed that the streak should never be broken.

funny how a history DVD is being used for a PPV build........ You're selectively choosing to break kayfabe. Kayfabe, they never gave us a reason.

 

[Blue Chipper]

funny how a history DVD is being used for a PPV build........ You're selectively choosing to break kayfabe. Kayfabe, they never gave us a reason.

Well, yea. I was wanting to poke in. But, technically, WWE did give us a reason to believe that HHH wouldn't win. I didn't know you were speaking exclusively in kay-fabe terms.

But KB above provided an answer in that regard.

I would, however, be right there with you, believing that maybe HHH could win, just as I was with HBK. In my subconscious, I would know what was going to happen, though.

 

[X]

Obviously no, there was never any doubt that Undertaker was going to win. But the emotion of the match got people live and at home so worked up while watching it that they actually were able to suspend their disbelief briefly and REALLY think Triple H was going to end the streak. At one point I seriously thought for a second that this was it, that Hunter had somehow convinced Mark to let him end the streak and that the IWC Armageddon was upon us, that's how good Undertaker's selling was last night. That's the whole point of the match. Sure, logically and rationally speaking from a non-kayfabe view everyone and their mother knew Undertaker was winning, but the match itself did a damn fine job of still making people believe it could actually end anyways. Watch that match again KB and see how the crowd reacts to some of those near falls towards the end, Baller (I think it was him) who was AT the show last night came on afterwards and said during that match one of the near falls towards the end was the biggest pop he'd ever seen is his life, with people jumping up and down going out of their minds that Undertaker was still able to kick out.

Those old farts were able to get by on emotion and moxy alone last night, and the brutality helped. Damn good match.

 

[klunderbunker]

Obviously no, there was never any doubt that Undertaker was going to win. But the emotion of the match got people live and at home so worked up while watching it that they actually were able to suspend their disbelief briefly and REALLY think Triple H was going to end the streak. At one point I seriously thought for a second that this was it, that Hunter had somehow convinced Mark to let him end the streak and that the IWC Armageddon was upon us, that's how good Undertaker's selling was last night. That's the whole point of the match. Sure, logically and rationally speaking from a non-kayfabe view everyone and their mother knew Undertaker was winning, but the match itself did a damn fine job of still making people believe it could actually end anyways. Watch that match again KB and see how the crowd reacts to some of those near falls towards the end, Baller (I think it was him) who was AT the show last night came on afterwards and said during that match one of the near falls towards the end was the biggest pop he'd ever seen is his life, with people jumping up and down going out of their minds that Undertaker was still able to kick out.

Those old farts were able to get by on emotion and moxy alone last night, and the brutality helped. Damn good match.

Shawn managed to do that when the ending was obvious. HHH didn't do that last night.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Ok, so you say I'm jaded. I say I'm logical. The Streak is going to end at the hands of someone young, not someone in their 40s. Never once thought otherwise and what a shock KB is right again.

KB says he's right, so he's right.....

No, KB is fucking wrong as all hell. Who should break the streak then? Wade Barrett? John Morrison? No, how about Santino? Hell, even The Miz next year won't be big enough to, and he's the 2nd biggest guy in the company right now. What are you fucking stupid? If it wasn't Triple H or HBK, then the ONLY person to do it is Cena. You can't MAKE someone by breaking the streak, since the person "being made" won't be even NEAR the level to deserve to share the damn ring with Taker at Mania, yet alone be the one to pin him.

No all you did was tell me I never thought something. That's not at all saying what I'm thinking. Give me a break.

No, what I did was say that your thinking based on absolutely nothing WWE has given us was pretty jaded. You refusing to tell me why you think that way is proof positive that I'm right in this instance.

Sure there was a reason for it. What would you call it when Shawn says "You can't do it?" That's not WWE telling us HHH can't do it? What would you call it then? A pasta recipe?

Actually, it's called one mans opinion. Last I checked, Shawn Michaels isn't the end-all be-all. He had an opinion, and he expressed it. And in all honesty, after rewatching the promo, guess what? HBK never said that HHH COULDN'T, or WOULDN'T do it. He asked HHH What makes him think he could do it. Triple H stood his ground, gave solid reasoning as to why he would win (unlike HBK, Triple H isn't soft, and isn't concerned with putting on a classic match like HBK, he's just concerned about winning). And in the taped promo's, Shawn Michaels made predictions, he never said Triple H COULDN'T do it, and even if he did, Triple H told him otherwise.

Finisher, rest, finisher, rest, finisher, rest, isn't a story. It's showing a lack of a story and saying that it was just the same stuff over and over again.

AGAIN, WHAT FUCKING RESTING?!?!?!?!?!?! Triple H and The Undertaker SOLD the BEATING. They didn't "REST." "REST" implies that you are breaking kayfabe. If that's the case, then you're selectively breaking kayfabe to further your argument. You can't break kayfabe and say that they were resting when it was clear that they were clearly SELLING the BEATING they gave to each other, then rely on kayfabe to justify why Taker CAN'T lose.

Brilliant? That tells me you have a very limited knowledge of what you're talking about.

No, it tells me virtually the opposite. It tells me I can appreciate the art of Professional Wrestling in all it's forms, while you can't, only appreciating fast paced mat-based wrestling. The match was artistry at it's finest. Last 2 years were more mat-based classics, this year was an all out classic brawl, in which 2 men literally gave it everything they had, pulled out all the stops, and delivered.

 

[klunderbunker]

Well through all that whining and "I'm right because I say I am", I see me answering your question of where WWE told us that Taker couldn't lose and you saying Shawn, as in the guy with the most recent experience against Taker at Mania and the guy who knows HHH's abilities as well as anyone, is just one man's opinion, meaning I could have said anything and you would have disagreed.

Secondly, if you had paid attention, you would notice I don't say it should be broken, because it shouldn't be.

Yeah yeah yeah. Keep saying the same thing so I can disagree with it more while you run your mouth. Don't you have a Hogan picture to whine about?

No, it tells me virtually the opposite. It tells me I can appreciate the art of Professional Wrestling in all it's forms, while you can't, only appreciating fast paced mat-based wrestling. The match was artistry at it's finest. Last 2 years were more mat-based classics, this year was an all out classic brawl, in which 2 men literally gave it everything they had, pulled out all the stops, and delivered.

Yeah....you're an idiot.

 

[X]

Shawn managed to do that when the ending was obvious. HHH didn't do that last night.

So because the match didn't convince you that there was a possible doubt in the finish while it did manage to convince thousands upon thousands of other people, possibly millions, it's a failure? Are you sure that might not have to do with your affinity for Shawn? You were more invested in that match up because you care more about Shawn Michaels than you do Triple H. I'm just assuming that of course, I've always thought you were a much bigger Shawn fan than a Triple H fan, if I'm wrong please correct me.

The match wasn't a classic. No one is saying it was. But it was damn good, and it accomplished it's goal much like both of the HBK/Taker matches, neither of which are as holy and untouchable as you seem to be implying. You take the actual in-ring work of either of those two matches and stack it up against every other big PPV of the year and it's really not as impressive as you think, but it was the story of the match and the emotion of the two men in it that sold the action as being bigger and better than it really actually was. I don't think you made the same emotional connection this time because it wasn't with Shawn, but again that's just a guess on my part and by all means please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only trying to explain why I personally think you may have reacted to the match like you did. Not trying to speak for you though obviously, just some guessing on my part.

Again, not a classic match. But damn good. Great even.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Well through all that whining and "I'm right because I say I am", I see me answering your question of where WWE told us that Taker couldn't lose and you saying Shawn, as in the guy with the most recent experience against Taker at Mania and the guy who knows HHH's abilities as well as anyone, is just one man's opinion, meaning I could have said anything and you would have disagreed.

No, what I CLEARLY said was that it was one mans opinion that was immediately REFUTED. Who cares if it was Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon, or Paul Bearer that said Triple H WASN'T GOING TO WIN (never did they say COULDN'T, which is what you are implying). Triple H (a man with one of the greatest resume's in the history of WWE) refuted attempts to say that it couldn't be done.

Secondly, if you had paid attention, you would notice I don't say it should be broken, because it shouldn't be.

The best counters to arguments are the ones where I can prove the other person wrong by simply copying and pasting what they themselves said. Here is one of those time..

Ok, so you say I'm jaded. I say I'm logical. The Streak is going to end at the hands of someone young, not someone in their 40s. Never once thought otherwise and what a shock KB is right again.

HEY LOOKIE HERE, THE "LOWLY" STORMTROOPER GOT ONE RIGHT OVER THE GREAT KB! KB IS GOING BACK ON HIS WORDS AGAIN BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE'S WRONG!

Yeah yeah yeah. Keep saying the same thing so I can disagree with it more while you run your mouth. Don't you have a Hogan picture to whine about?

you mean keep asking for you to defend yourself while you keep spouting off "I'm right you're wrong, I'm smart you're an idiot" all the while never once answering the FACT that you have (now twice) contradicted yourself in this very argument, yet you're saying you're RIGHT on all counts here? Come on, you're not Roddy Piper, you can't change the question when someone else has the answer.

And yeah, WZ tournament shit. Sadly more proof of your ability to be bias. Thanks.

Yeah....you're an idiot.

And as X has also stated, no, you're the one that doesn't appreciate all forms of wrestling. Hence I'm no idiot in this instance. I'm the more well-rounded WRESTLING fan, you're the idiot.

 

[klunderbunker]

So because the match didn't convince you that there was a possible doubt in the finish while it did manage to convince thousands upon thousands of other people, possibly millions, it's a failure? Are you sure that might not have to do with your affinity for Shawn? You were more invested in that match up because you care more about Shawn Michaels than you do Triple H. I'm just assuming that of course, I've always thought you were a much bigger Shawn fan than a Triple H fan, if I'm wrong please correct me.

The match wasn't a classic. No one is saying it was. But it was damn good, and it accomplished it's goal much like both of the HBK/Taker matches, neither of which are as holy and untouchable as you seem to be implying. You take the actual in-ring work of either of those two matches and stack it up against every other big PPV of the year and it's really not as impressive as you think, but it was the story of the match and the emotion of the two men in it that sold the action as being bigger and better than it really actually was. I don't think you made the same emotional connection this time because it wasn't with Shawn, but again that's just a guess on my part and by all means please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only trying to explain why I personally think you may have reacted to the match like you did. Not trying to speak for you though obviously, just some guessing on my part.

Again, not a classic match. But damn good. Great even.

1. Why do you think I'm saying I thought it was a failure? Isn't that the point of arguing a match?

2. I know. That's why I gave it a B.

 

[klunderbunker]

See, actually, there's a difference between saying it will be, and shouldn't be. I'll let yout ake your time to grasp the difference.

 

[Burnout]

I loved Mania.

-Rey/Rhodes was awesome, my favorite of the night. Loved seeing Rey pull out all the stops, and the fact Cody won, makes me confident that he's a champion in the making.
-ADR/Edge was a great start, though I really wanted Del Rio to win.
-HHH/Taker was awesome, great story, great spots. My heart skiped a beat when Taker made the suicide dive.
-Miz/Cena was a solid match, but they tried to hard to make a way for the Rock to be involved. All was needed was a ref bump, Rock interference to Cena, Miz steals the pin. No need for a double countout, restart and interference mess.
-As an Irish person, I was looking foward to seeing Sheamus on the show, and Bryan to for that matter, and wish it wasn't left off the show...could have been an awesome match.

 

[X]

A B is roughly around the ballpark of the **** rating I gave it, though I was probably more generous. So I'm not really sure why we're arguing since apparently we agree, lol.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

The best part of the night was when I asked X for LD sex.