Actually, the match improves exponentially for the last five or so minutes, when Cena gets back into it and stops acting like he's on crack. What ruins it is the dumbass ending. What ruins it further is The Rock attacking The Miz, though I suppose that's an extension of the dumbass ending.
WWE Wrestlemania XXVII Live Discussion
- Thread starter The Doctor
- Start date
I just noticed The Miz is positively dribbling over himself as he lifts the belt up. Damn it, Miz; that won't get into any highlight videos!
Raw would have been much more interesting if The Rock had just walked away after he stares at The Miz. It's been said, but I feel it should probably be said again.
After a second viewing, I'm actually leaning towards this being a pretty good 'Mania:
Raw would have been much more interesting if The Rock had just walked away after he stares at The Miz. It's been said, but I feel it should probably be said again.
After a second viewing, I'm actually leaning towards this being a pretty good 'Mania:
- ADR/Edge was good, even if it went on too early and the wrong man won. Edge is gash; Del Rio is ready for the world title; believe it.
- Rhodes/Mysterio was positively awesome. Bizarrely, Rhodes' Hesitation Superplex is one of my top WrestleMania Moments™.
- The eight-man tag had a Kofi Kingston spot. Good enough for me. Shame about the lack of Robin trunks.
- Orton/Punk was really well done. I thought the ending was rather abrupt, but I suppose that's the point.
- Other stuff.
I'm flabbergasted by the hate Triple H/Undertaker is getting. So they rested alot, so what? Did you people even watch the HBK/Taker matches? Just as much resting. Or shit, look at the Mania 12 Iron Man. Tons of resting. Resting doesn't hurt a match if the overall story works. Yeah, they went a bit finisher crazy for sure but that was a part of the story of the match, trying to sell Triple H as this vicious man who was pulling out everything in both his and Undertaker's arsenal to put the man away, but nothing would work. Some of the spots in that match were brutal, particularly the chair shots which are some of the stiffest and worst I've seen in a WWE ring in many, many years. Atleast since the Benoit incident. I mean Trips fucking scrambled Undertaker's brains with some of those shots, that was just BRUTAL. In the end Triple H tried everything he could to beat the Dead Man, but he failed just like everyone else and no matter how much punishment he laid out on the Dead Man, he got caught in the Gogoplotta and that was enough to make him tap. As someone else remarked in the LD, it was similar to the Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen fight last year in that regard, with Sonnen playing Hunter's role, pulling out everything he could to destroy his opponent before his opponent was able to score the last second win from a Hail Mary submission attempt. Maybe I could appreciate that finish more being an MMA fan, but I thought it was quite brilliant for what they were going for.
I agree though they shouldn't have gone straight to the table spots 5 minutes into the match, but it's not a large enough complaint to derail the rest of the match. They were desperate and this was a No Holds Barred match, and that's exactly what they worked---a brutal, street fight. Totally different from the HBK/Taker wrestling matches the last two years, but great in it's own way. Totally not on the same level as either HBK/Taker match, no, but still great storytelling and great action through out with two of the biggest remaining stars in the industry working 70,000 people perfectly. Seriously, you should have seen how badly they bought some of those near falls for Hunter towards the end, it was great in that regard.
Okay, done defending that match. For now.
I agree though they shouldn't have gone straight to the table spots 5 minutes into the match, but it's not a large enough complaint to derail the rest of the match. They were desperate and this was a No Holds Barred match, and that's exactly what they worked---a brutal, street fight. Totally different from the HBK/Taker wrestling matches the last two years, but great in it's own way. Totally not on the same level as either HBK/Taker match, no, but still great storytelling and great action through out with two of the biggest remaining stars in the industry working 70,000 people perfectly. Seriously, you should have seen how badly they bought some of those near falls for Hunter towards the end, it was great in that regard.
Okay, done defending that match. For now.
I don't care for Michaels' WrestleMania 12, 25 or 26 matches as much as most people seem to. I criticised them - well, the latter two - at the time for their rest -> signature move -> rest formula as well, so you can't accuse me of bandwagoning. I'm the one that built the bandwagon.
These guys are middle aged at this point, is it really that hard to suspend your disbelief for 25 minutes and not get pissed over how long they rest on the mat? That shit never made sense to me. It's not like that just laid there for twenty minutes, they worked a lot of stuff into that match.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
I am against rest spots when they are used as just to rest but, especially near the end, HHH and Taker used these lulls in physcial actio to help build the psychology of the match and crowd anticipation by highlighting HHH's viciousness and Taker's resilience.
First the Dead Man was incredulous that he could not put HHH away with a chokeslam, Last Ride or Tombstone and then HHH used a combination of incredulity, shock, fear and then finally resignation when it came to having to resort to using the sledgehammer to demonstrate that the Undertaker's Wrestlemania-induced endurance verges on the supernatural.
And if any match needed time shaved off it, it was Lawler/Cole. A good 8-10 minutes could have been lost from that. Also Rock's opening promo could have been shorter too, while the only backstage segment worth a damn was the Austin-Rock staredown.
First the Dead Man was incredulous that he could not put HHH away with a chokeslam, Last Ride or Tombstone and then HHH used a combination of incredulity, shock, fear and then finally resignation when it came to having to resort to using the sledgehammer to demonstrate that the Undertaker's Wrestlemania-induced endurance verges on the supernatural.
And if any match needed time shaved off it, it was Lawler/Cole. A good 8-10 minutes could have been lost from that. Also Rock's opening promo could have been shorter too, while the only backstage segment worth a damn was the Austin-Rock staredown.
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
I think Sam's rioght. Last night I was pretty much giving this a C+, but upon a second viewing it's more like a B-/B.
I'm not pissed. I totally understand why they do it. I think they were good matches. Great matches, in all probability. I'm just not going to pretend those matches were stone cold classics or even the best matches on the card when those accolades belong to the younger guys working their asses off further down the card, trying to steal the show without the saving grace of a couple table spots.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
I still don't understand why people are calling Taker and Triple H laying on the canvas "resting." As a wrestling fan, what I saw was The Undertaker and Triple H SELLING the BEATING they were giving each other.
And breaking the table that early made sense to me. The huge bumps made the selling the big high impact moves for so long logical. If they just had 10 minutes of plain old wrestling, then sold the Pedigree for well over a minute, it wouldn't be logical, especially for The Deadman.
Also, am I the only person who was surprised that Triple H actually HIT the Tombstone? I think he might be the first non-Kane to actually TOMBSTONE Taker.
Not surprising to me in the least, but watching it for the 2nd time the show is even better then the first time. This is EASILY a B to B+ show now.
And breaking the table that early made sense to me. The huge bumps made the selling the big high impact moves for so long logical. If they just had 10 minutes of plain old wrestling, then sold the Pedigree for well over a minute, it wouldn't be logical, especially for The Deadman.
Also, am I the only person who was surprised that Triple H actually HIT the Tombstone? I think he might be the first non-Kane to actually TOMBSTONE Taker.
Not surprising to me in the least, but watching it for the 2nd time the show is even better then the first time. This is EASILY a B to B+ show now.
I absolutely agree with everything you just said Sam. It was a great match, but not a classic by any means. There's a pretty big difference in between the two. I'm not saying it was a classic at all, just that it was good for what it intended to be, a brutal street fight with a simple but effective story. The fact that it was on the big stage of Wrestlemania may have caused me to slightly overrate the match, I'm not sure yet, I'll have to decide that upon my second viewing of the show later today. I just was surprised by the amount of people shitting on the match, including Sly among others. I never imagined the day I would be defending a WWE match to Slyfox.
Most people are just happy with the no selling of finishing maneuvers and guys hopping back up to continue on. The Undertaker and Triple H (likewise with Michaels the last two years) are doing a little something called "Selling". It's pretty essential in the world of fake pro wrestling. You want to make your opponent look good, so you sell the finishing maneuver. People confuse resting with selling.
Triple H vs. the Undertaker was fan-fucking-tastic. A great story was told, and it blew my expectations away for these two at their respective ages.
Triple H vs. the Undertaker was fan-fucking-tastic. A great story was told, and it blew my expectations away for these two at their respective ages.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I keep hearing the words "story" for HHH vs. Taker. What story was it?
Triple H said that he's going to end the streak, or die trying. Triple H said he's brutal, and emotionless, and will do whatever it takes. Shawn Michaels tells him, "you're out of your mind, you can't beat him".
Match starts out, and from the start is apparent it's going to be a brawl. Long story short, Triple H gets the upper hand, absolutely destroys the Undertaker, but the Undertaker can't be beat. Chair shots, finishers, and the Undertaker simply getting his ass whooped more then he ever has in his career, still the deadman won't stay down.
Ultimately, Triple H makes one mistake (the key theme that's been repeated the last two years in Streak match), and gets caught in the Devil's triangle. Triple H is in a choke hold for two minutes, and finally gives up. The Undertaker is willing to choke the man to death (implied) to keep the Streak alive.
Everything that was touched upon in the build, was hit on the head during the match.
Match starts out, and from the start is apparent it's going to be a brawl. Long story short, Triple H gets the upper hand, absolutely destroys the Undertaker, but the Undertaker can't be beat. Chair shots, finishers, and the Undertaker simply getting his ass whooped more then he ever has in his career, still the deadman won't stay down.
Ultimately, Triple H makes one mistake (the key theme that's been repeated the last two years in Streak match), and gets caught in the Devil's triangle. Triple H is in a choke hold for two minutes, and finally gives up. The Undertaker is willing to choke the man to death (implied) to keep the Streak alive.
Everything that was touched upon in the build, was hit on the head during the match.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
the pretty basic story of virtually nothing can keep The Undertakers shoulders down on the mat for 3 seconds with his opponent on top of him.
What do you want them to do, grab a book and a microphone or something? The story was right the fuck there, pretty obvious. Triple H gave The Undertaker virtually everything he could give him, and it wasn't enough. Likewise, Undertaker gave Triple H virtually everything he could, and it took 4 minutes of Hells Gate (Kayfabe maybe the most gruesome submission in WWE). After the match, both men were all but dead, Taker so much that he was carted off.
Honestly, I think this match, while totally different from the HBK/Taker matches, is near those 2 in terms of quality. A totally different match, but just as awesome none-the-less. Just as good if not better then X7 (the Ref being knocked down for about 20 minutes of that match hurt it to me, since the match was a plain old singles match that one ref-bump turned into a No DQ match. Any other time, a secondary referee comes in to officiate).
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Translation: a weaker version of the Shawn/Taker series. That's hardly a great story, especially when the ending was never in doubt, at least not while I watched it.
The WWE wants to end the predictability that the Rumble winner automatically wins the title? What a terrible idea.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I think they've proven that in the last three Rumbles.
Pretty much at this point all you're going to get with the Undertaker match at Mania is a guy wanting to end the Streak. It's pretty simple really. The WWE has made a point to make that match at least equal if not more important then the world titles on that pay per view. The top guys in the company recognize the Undertaker is the best performer at Wrestlemania, so they want to measure themselves next to him.
The theme is that the Streak is going to end, and it's getting closer. The Undertaker was all but dead in the ring, and somehow he pulled it off. Triple H dominated the Undertaker, and it was to the point that I thought there was no way the undertaker could pull it off without making it look completely ridiculous. Somehow they managed to make it look solid at the end.
I watched it at a bar, and people were going apeshit throughout that match, and were genuinely shocked that the Undertaker won. Us cynical smarks see it one way, but the casuals I watched with sucked the Kool-aid down.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Yeah but that was the story last year and last year and the year before blew this away. This was big spot, rest, big spot, rest/recover, big spot repeat. Got old quickly, especially when HHH knew a total of three moves: Pedigree, chair, spinebuster.
Buffalo Dave
Yeeeeeeeah Buddy!!
Pretty good show all around. Biggest tool of the the night, was that jackass with the throwback Hawks jersey sitting front row, even changed jerseys to a throwback Lebron Cavs jersey for the Miz/Cena match, obviously he was supporting Miz there, but was just acting like a fool all night.
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