Wrestling Matters

[Dieter_Von_Cunth]

Let me bottom line this thread for everybody going back and forth. If the letters "T" "N" "A" are in front of a wrestling product, people will bash the hell out of it no matter what TNA does. It's what the wrestling public does. It's what they are born to do.

You could show a wrestling fan a match between any 2 wrestlers and say critique the match without mentioning what federation it came from. They go over the match and give their honest opinions on said match.

Then show the same match with the TNA logos and all that other stuff, it would be a completely different critique. There is no doubt about it. It's the popular thing to do. Bash TNA. It's not cool to prop TNA so you bash it with every chance you can get. You could have the best 2 wrestlers in the world put on a 1 hour wrestling clinic but because the letter "T" "N" "A" were in front of the wrestling match, it would get bashed to hell.

Deny it all you want. It's the truth and everybody knows it.

 

[Fenris]

But VKM brought Hogan to the dance.

Hahaha too funny. So Vern Gagne and Vince McMahon are the same person now? Vern and the AWA made Hulk Hogan a big star, after McMahon and his daddy fired him for appearing in Rocky 3.

But to say that Hogan alone put wrestling on the map is both an oversimplification and exaggeration of the facts.

Nah, it just IS a fact. Look I get it, you think McMahon is the be all end all of wrestling and singlehandedly made it what it is. Fact is Hogan was selling out 30,000 plus in every territory that he went. Hogan was selling out in freakin' Japan and could have worked there fulltime. It wasn't Vince McMahon who broke pro wrestling into Hollywood paving the way, it was Hulk Hogan back when McMahon was playing a Stephanie McMahon role in daddies company.

We can try and deny it away all we want but Hogan put it on the map, Hogan made it huge and without him McMahon would be a failed wrestling promoter in history while either Vern Gagne or Jim Crockett(Who first had the PPV idea as well as the expanding outside of territories idea) would be king of the mountain.

For better or worse, VKM/WWE did a LOT to put wrestling on the map

By ripping off everyone else, signing other promotions talents and using gimmicks someone else thought of but it's cool, that's only bad when TNA does anything similar.


Quick question Brian, you seem to love everything about the WWE, and hate everything about TNA so why are you here? It seems kinda like a waste of time to spend all your time trashing something you dislike when you could instead be investing time in the product you actually enjoy.

 

[itssoeasy123]

I just don't get it really.

TNA and the WWE basher's have this weird philosophy that since World Wrestling Entertainment rebranded to WWE they'll stop shaving wrestling on their programming. Which, obviously they will not. WWE is a pro-wrestling company, that's what the in-ring product is. If there's a ring and guy fighting in it, that's wrestling. WWE can stop saying wrestling, stop having references to wrestling, but they wil not stop wrestling.

WWE just want's to be known for more thna being a "wrestling company." First, they have the WWE Network which is in the work's and they obviously can't just show wrestling on it. WWE has alway's been more on a entertainemnt comapny anyway with their celebrity guest, CD's, movie's, but the main focus of the show is wrestling.

Look at KFC, they rebranded from Kentucky Fried Chicken, but they still serve chicken.

In my opinion TNA ism aking thmeselves look like imbred idiot's. Of course wrestlnig matter's, that's what in the ring, that's what people come to see, every wrestling comapny has wrestling. Just becuase WWE rebrand to just the initial's does'nt mean jack siht. Hell, they also took out World and Entertainment. Maybe TNA's new slogan should be The Entertaining World of Wrestling. It's just a easy was to take at jab at a guy who does'nt give a shit about your company. An example, they had a billboard in Stanford a bloke away from WWE HQ. You know what I think Vince's rection was, "What the hell is Impact Wrestling?"

 

[Fenris]

Let me bottom line this thread for everybody going back and forth. If the letters "T" "N" "A" are in front of a wrestling product, people will bash the hell out of it no matter what TNA does. It's what the wrestling public does. It's what they are born to do.

You could show a wrestling fan a match between any 2 wrestlers and say critique the match without mentioning what federation it came from. They go over the match and give their honest opinions on said match.

Then show the same match with the TNA logos and all that other stuff, it would be a completely different critique. There is no doubt about it. It's the popular thing to do. Bash TNA. It's not cool to prop TNA so you bash it with every chance you can get. You could have the best 2 wrestlers in the world put on a 1 hour wrestling clinic but because the letter "T" "N" "A" were in front of the wrestling match, it would get bashed to hell.

Deny it all you want. It's the truth and everybody knows it.

An easier translation: If it doesn't have the initials WWE behind it then it will be bashed into the dirt no matter what the air. TNA could air an hour and 45 minutes of 5 star matches with 15 minutes of A+ promos mixed in and it'll still be picked apart and called garbage.

Seems like a waste of time to me but some just enjoy trolling.

 

[itssoeasy123]

Let me bottom line this thread for everybody going back and forth. If the letters "T" "N" "A" are in front of a wrestling product, people will bash the hell out of it no matter what TNA does. It's what the wrestling public does. It's what they are born to do.

You could show a wrestling fan a match between any 2 wrestlers and say critique the match without mentioning what federation it came from. They go over the match and give their honest opinions on said match.

Then show the same match with the TNA logos and all that other stuff, it would be a completely different critique. There is no doubt about it. It's the popular thing to do. Bash TNA. It's not cool to prop TNA so you bash it with every chance you can get. You could have the best 2 wrestlers in the world put on a 1 hour wrestling clinic but because the letter "T" "N" "A" were in front of the wrestling match, it would get bashed to hell.

Deny it all you want. It's the truth and everybody knows it.

Nice generalization dude.

I am your everyday normal TNA hater, and I haven't watch the product for a month. But, I decided to what Sacrifice last night. It was a good PPV, much better than Lockdown and on par with Wrestlemania 27 IMO.

Not every person hate's everything TNA does becuase it's TNA. Sure, some people are like that, just like how there's blind WWE hater's. You know that, "WWE sux today, I wish it was how it was in 1997." When, they don't exactly watch the product!

And you talk about if it was a good match it'll get bashed. A good match is a good match, no matter what company. I though the Kazarian/Max Buck last night was very good and well paced. I also though Chris Master's vs. Drew McIntyre on Superstar's was a fantastic match. If it's a bad match, like Cena/Miz at WM 27, I'll say it's a bad match. That match was a bad match for reason's that'll take another 2 paragraph's to explain.

I just don't like TNA becuase of their constant swerves, heel/face turn's, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, RVD, Anderson, Bischoff, and the fact that they can't keep bashing the WWE. I'll still give it a change though, and I can praise it, unlike some of the TNA lover's who can't give WWE a chance but take pot-shot's at it from time to time.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

In my opinion TNA ism aking thmeselves look like imbred idiot's. Of course wrestlnig matter's, that's what in the ring, that's what people come to see, every wrestling comapny has wrestling. Just becuase WWE rebrand to just the initial's does'nt mean jack siht. Hell, they also took out World and Entertainment. Maybe TNA's new slogan should be The Entertaining World of Wrestling. It's just a easy was to take at jab at a guy who does'nt give a shit about your company. An example, they had a billboard in Stanford a bloke away from WWE HQ. You know what I think Vince's rection was, "What the hell is Impact Wrestling?"

Look at the bolded words. And TNA are making themselves look like "imbreds"?

See, I love you WWE (s)marks repeating the same shit about Vince not giving a damn about TNA as many times as you can, as if you're trying to convince yourselves it is true. I guess LayCool was just a bright idea he came up with.

So after a year and a half of the IWC bitching, moaning, complaining and being a pain in the ass, TNA finally vows to put more focus on the wrestling aspect of the show and you ... once again ... bitch about it? Why? Because it's a counter on WWE dropping wrestling from its name? Is that bad, somehow? No, sucker, that's GOOD. People always say that TNA shouldn't care about WWE does and concentrate on their own product, and to those people I say - are you out of your damn mind? Do you know who focuses on their own product and doesn't give a damn about the competition? Ring of Honor. How are they doing?

Call it what you like but this is a great strategic move that came at just the right time, is being hyped heavily and even the loudest TNA critics are now ready to give TNA another chance. Any incessant bitching about this is just WWE cultists foaming at the mouth that TNA might do what WWE doesn't have the nuts to - be proud of being a pro wrestling company, actually listen to their fans and do what they've been begging for and improve their product by adding a bit more wrestling to it so it has everything and gets better. 'Been a while since WWE's done that, right?

 

[itssoeasy123]

Look at the bolded words. And TNA are making themselves look like "imbreds"?

See, I love you WWE (s)marks repeating the same shit about Vince not giving a damn about TNA as many times as you can, as if you're trying to convince yourselves it is true. I guess LayCool was just a bright idea he came up with.

So after a year and a half of the IWC bitching, moaning, complaining and being a pain in the ass, TNA finally vows to put more focus on the wrestling aspect of the show and you ... once again ... bitch about it? Why? Because it's a counter on WWE dropping wrestling from its name? Is that bad, somehow? No, sucker, that's GOOD. People always say that TNA shouldn't care about WWE does and concentrate on their own product, and to those people I say - are you out of your damn mind? Do you know who focuses on their own product and doesn't give a damn about the competition? Ring of Honor. How are they doing?

Call it what you like but this is a great strategic move that came at just the right time, is being hyped heavily and even the loudest TNA critics are now ready to give TNA another chance. Any incessant bitching about this is just WWE cultists foaming at the mouth that TNA might do what WWE doesn't have the nuts to - be proud of being a pro wrestling company, actually listen to their fans and do what they've been begging for and improve their product by adding a bit more wrestling to it so it has everything and gets better. 'Been a while since WWE's done that, right?

It's not WWE doesn't have the ball's to be a wrestling company. They want to be known for being more than a wrestling company.

There's still wrestling on the product, right? That's what matter's, right? They just want to branch out to other market's, an example would be WWE Film's. They have a WWE Network that's in the work's that will obviously have to feature more than just the in-ring product like on RAW or Smackdown. Maybe reality show's, talk show's, cartoon's, stuff for the WWE Network to fill up slot's of time. It'll be better than then showing replay's of RAW or Smackdown every hour.

And yes, I believe Vince McMahon, the owner of a billion dollar company, wouldn't care about another company who aren't a threat to WWE by an mean's. TNA are below WWE, their inferior to the WWE, their not on the same night as RAW or Smackdown, their not competition, they had a failed Monday Night War's that saw TNA get a 0.5 and go crawling back to Thursday's. Why should VKM care about a company who's not a threat to him, by any mean's. He cares about him own company.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

It's not WWE doesn't have the ball's to be a wrestling company. They want to be known for being more than a wrestling company.

There's still wrestling on the product, right? That's what matter's, right? They just want to branch out to other market's, an example would be WWE Film's. They have a WWE Network that's in the work's that will obviously have to feature more than just the in-ring product like on RAW or Smackdown. Maybe reality show's, talk show's, cartoon's, stuff for the WWE Network to fill up slot's of time. It'll be better than then showing replay's of RAW or Smackdown every hour.

And yes, I believe Vince McMahon, the owner of a billion dollar company, wouldn't care about another company who aren't a threat to WWE by an mean's. TNA are below WWE, their inferior to the WWE, their not on the same night as RAW or Smackdown, their not competition, they had a failed Monday Night War's that saw TNA get a 0.5 and go crawling back to Thursday's. Why should VKM care about a company who's not a threat to him, by any mean's. He cares about him own company.

Okay, he wants to branch out. Cute. But here's a question. What the fuck does that have to do with having or not having the word "wrestling" in your bloody name? Pretending as if you don't know that calling McMahon's product "wrestling" is as insulting to him as taking a crap on his father's grave is straight out ignorant and silly. He's made it clear that he does not like it, and for some odd reason he believes that not calling your wrestlers - wrestlers and your product - wrestling will magically erase the "wrestling" stigma off his product. That by itself tells you two things about McMahon.

1. He's totally lost any grasp of what's good, what works and what could work.

2. He's a moron who always fed off of other people's ideas, and when there's nobody out there to copycat his product turns into a steaming pile of shit, shat out by none other than him and his "creative" writers who in my opinion are a bunch of chimps in "We <3 Vinnie" T-Shirts.

There is still wrestling on his product, and there always will be, but it's clear that the owner of the biggest WRESTLING company in the world is pissing all over the very core of what made this business great and is trying to slowly but steadily replace his wrestlers with trained actors, his female wrestlers with models, the squared circle with a dance floor and turn his weekly show(s) to a product placement extravanagza, featuring random appearances by clueless individuals who have absolutely zero to do with not only pro wrestling but sports in general. That's what TNA is going against, and bless their little souls for doing it. McMahon's been dragging this business through the mud for long enough, turning it into a walking joke to the point that some, if not all, WWE fans out there are ashamed of sharing their passion for the business outloud because they'll be called a moron or a geek.

You're right, McMahon's company is a billion dollar business, and remember - if he cared about WCW before it grew and smacked his face off he wouldn't have nearly went out of business. He's a lucky man that part of the reason why WCW perished were blows that came outside of the company, otherwise people would be comparing TNA to WWF these days, not WCW. He can stay willfully ignorant to TNA (even though he's not), but if you really believe he's not keeping and eye on the company that's basically ran by the same people that whooped his ass a decade ago, with a gigantic cash cow like Panda Energy waiting to assure themselves that TNA Wrestling is a project worth pouring some major cash into, you're lying to yourself.

 

[itssoeasy123]

Okay, he wants to branch out. Cute. But here's a question. What the fuck does that have to do with having or not having the word "wrestling" in your bloody name? Pretending as if you don't know that calling McMahon's product "wrestling" is as insulting to him as taking a crap on his father's grave is straight out ignorant and silly. He's made it clear that he does not like it, and for some odd reason he believes that not calling your wrestlers - wrestlers and your product - wrestling will magically erase the "wrestling" stigma off his product. That by itself tells you two things about McMahon.

1. He's totally lost any grasp of what's good, what works and what could work.

2. He's a moron who always fed off of other people's ideas, and when there's nobody out there to copycat his product turns into a steaming pile of shit, shat out by none other than him and his "creative" writers who in my opinion are a bunch of chimps in "We <3 Vinnie" T-Shirts.

There is still wrestling on his product, and there always will be, but it's clear that the owner of the biggest WRESTLING company in the world is pissing all over the very core of what made this business great and is trying to slowly but steadily replace his wrestlers with trained actors, his female wrestlers with models, the squared circle with a dance floor and turn his weekly show(s) to a product placement extravanagza, featuring random appearances by clueless individuals who have absolutely zero to do with not only pro wrestling but sports in general. That's what TNA is going against, and bless their little souls for doing it. McMahon's been dragging this business through the mud for long enough, turning it into a walking joke to the point that some, if not all, WWE fans out there are ashamed of sharing their passion for the business outloud because they'll be called a moron or a geek.

You're right, McMahon's company is a billion dollar business, and remember - if he cared about WCW before it grew and smacked his face off he wouldn't have nearly went out of business. He's a lucky man that part of the reason why WCW perished were blows that came outside of the company, otherwise people would be comparing TNA to WWF these days, not WCW. He can stay willfully ignorant to TNA (even though he's not), but if you really believe he's not keeping and eye on the company that's basically ran by the same people that whooped his ass a decade ago, with a gigantic cash cow like Panda Energy waiting to assure themselves that TNA Wrestling is a project worth pouring some major cash into, you're lying to yourself.

I stil don't see what taking the word "wrestling" out of the name has anything to do with how the product is. Hell, they also took out "World" and "Entertainment."

Wrestling will not erase from the WWE. That's their history, their core product. That's what people come to see, and still do see.

So, what if TNA start doing good, and you wanna be all objective and everything, I'll give it a try. What if TNA start getting say 2.0 rating's, good for TNA, What if next week instead of Vince worring about TNA he turn's Cena heel, and people are watching his show again. IMHO I think Vince is keeping those kind of stuff off, like another "Attitude," incase something come's along so he can kick them back to where they belong. You don't know what the hell Vince McMahon's got up his sleeve, he may be ragged on and bashed, but the man's a friggin' genius. He know's the business inside and out. Remember Nexus, nobody saw thme coming, or how about the Daniel Bryan "release," that saw him get more fans then he would've if he stayed in Nexus, or The Rock coming back.

You can say, "whooped his ass a decade ago", but here's the thing, WCW had advantages. Vince was tied in the steriod's trial, RAW was taped sometimes weeks before Nitro, so Bischoff would give away the result's on air. They had Ted Turner's money's, the turned Hogan heel for the first time after a decade and a half of being a face, they had the NWO. Alot of big name's jumped over because of the pay. I doubt Cena, Orton, HHH, HBK, Punk, Del Rio, Barret, Taker, Kingston, Sheamus, Bryan, Ziggler, Edge, Christian, Swagger, Miz, Morrison, Henry, or Big Show would go oever to TNA. Seeing how TNA's pay is, their marketing scheme, their rating's, their product. Add that to the non-existent Wellness Policy, chair-shot's to the head, superstar's wrestling intoxicted, and they don't pay for hospital bill's. Maybe if they want a lighter schedule, I think that's why Sitng is still in TNA, than that's really it. If you realize most of TNA's former WWE talent are reject's or has-been's. The only guy who jumped over who could've done anything for TNA was Kurt Angle. He was realeased becuase of his addiction to pain-killer's and WWE didn't want another wrestlnig death on their hand's. It was the opposite of that in 1996, guy's like Macho Man, Luger, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Sting (even though he didn't jump), were all relevant and still very popular. Today's WWE reject's like The Hardy's or Anderosn, not so much.

 

[Fenris]

Okay, he wants to branch out. Cute. But here's a question. What the fuck does that have to do with having or not having the word "wrestling" in your bloody name? Pretending as if you don't know that calling McMahon's product "wrestling" is as insulting to him as taking a crap on his father's grave is straight out ignorant and silly. He's made it clear that he does not like it, and for some odd reason he believes that not calling your wrestlers - wrestlers and your product - wrestling will magically erase the "wrestling" stigma off his product. That by itself tells you two things about McMahon.

The Ultimate Warrior, as well as Hogan have discussed this quite a few times. Vince has always wanted to be a part of that Entertainment inner circle and have the prestige it brings, hence the WBF where he attempted to overthrow the Weider Brothers publishing and competition dynasty tied to Arnold, the XFL and now "Dubya Dubya Entertainment ayuckyuck" with their "Superstars" and "Divas" including... A freaking Reality Show actor as the face of his company.

He hates the stigma he sees as attached to "Wrestling", wherein the upper class yuppies look down apon you as a mere Carnie owner.

1. He's totally lost any grasp of what's good, what works and what could work.

Did he ever really HAVE the grasp? That is the question. WWF boom periods always coincided with new bookers being hired who DID have their fingers on the pulse.

2. He's a moron who always fed off of other people's ideas, and when there's nobody out there to copycat his product turns into a steaming pile of shit, shat out by none other than him and his "creative" writers who in my opinion are a bunch of chimps in "We <3 Vinnie" T-Shirts.

Well I wouldn't go that far, I mean he did come up with T.L. Hopper, KING Harley Race, The Lexster, Papa Shango and his pea soup, The Goon, Freddy Joe Floyd, De Ameweecan Dweem Baybay, Doink The Clown and Kona Crush. On 2nd thought yeah, you're spot on.

There is still wrestling on his product, and there always will be, but it's clear that the owner of the biggest WRESTLING company in the world is pissing all over the very core of what made this business great and is trying to slowly but steadily replace his wrestlers with trained actors, his female wrestlers with models, the squared circle with a dance floor and turn his weekly show(s) to a product placement extravanagza, featuring random appearances by clueless individuals who have absolutely zero to do with not only pro wrestling but sports in general.

That honestly looks to be what it is. As an outsider looking in it honestly looks like he's trying to position himself and "WWE Network" to where the current product is mostly phased out and the wrestling eventually becomes part of nostalgic talkshows on his network recapping the past while Raw is some celeb extravaganza exclusively.

McMahon's been dragging this business through the mud for long enough, turning it into a walking joke to the point that some, if not all, WWE fans out there are ashamed of sharing their passion for the business outloud because they'll be called a moron or a geek.

Man I hear ya there, I still remember the days when a person wasn't humiliated to state they were pro wrestling fans because the only known product is a laughingstock. Back when the term was associated with Ric Flair and JCP or the AWA, not looking at you as an utter freak.

 

[Rock Bottom]

To be honest changing the name is just the latest in a long line of decisions made by Vince McMahon to bring the WWE further into the mainstream. Sure they are a business and making more money is great, but they are forgeting who made them successful enough to even try and appeal to the mainstream, the wrestling fan.

TNA rebranding has garnered my interest in the show, just to see if they can live up to their promise!

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I stil don't see what taking the word "wrestling" out of the name has anything to do with how the product is. Hell, they also took out "World" and "Entertainment."

Yeah, he took them out because he wanted to remove "wrestling" from the name. Are you 12? ... Cena avatar ... WWE fan ... forget I asked the question.

Wrestling will not erase from the WWE. That's their history, their core product. That's what people come to see, and still do see.

.... did you say that people watch WWE to see the wrestling? THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!

So, what if TNA start doing good, and you wanna be all objective and everything, I'll give it a try. What if TNA start getting say 2.0 rating's, good for TNA, What if next week instead of Vince worring about TNA he turn's Cena heel, and people are watching his show again. IMHO I think Vince is keeping those kind of stuff off, like another "Attitude," incase something come's along so he can kick them back to where they belong. You don't know what the hell Vince McMahon's got up his sleeve, he may be ragged on and bashed, but the man's a friggin' genius. He know's the business inside and out. Remember Nexus, nobody saw thme coming, or how about the Daniel Bryan "release," that saw him get more fans then he would've if he stayed in Nexus, or The Rock coming back.

Oh your optimism is cute. Laughable, but cute. Yeah, McMahon is keeping "the good stuff" in case someone starts kicking your ass. Drill this into your head - HE HAS NO GOOD STUFF. He doesn't want a new "Attitude" Era. For Pete's sake he had Pee Wee Herman on his show! Believing that he willingly makes his product look and be a pile of dung in order to bring back an attitude of excitement and awesomeness is the silliest thing I've read from you thus far. McMahon - the money freak, is being idle as his PPV buys and ratings are slowly melting away year by year, his top stars leaving and his product losing its edge, ONLY to bring a boom of a wrestling era back not for him - but for the fans. McMahon cares about his fans. Classic.

Did you mention The Nexus? You mean that potentially epic idea that was turned into nothing more than a running joke by Vince McMahon's pure genius and his laughable writers? That Nexus? Daniel Bryan and The Rock? Nobody saw them coming? OH MY GAWD! WWE surprised us two times in the last decade! Pour the champagne!

Kid ... it's one thing to deliver a surprise, it's a whole 'nother thing to keep it going. I know, I'm a TNA fan, I've seen surprises flop more times than you've seen your wee-wee. Ever since his return Daniel Bryan has slowly been turning into just another low-carder. The Rock on the other hand reminded us all that the only way for us to get fired up by his electrifying persona is to go back in time and be twelve again, because honestly if I hear him repeat those fucking lines again I'll shoot myself. The Rock didn't come back to wrestle, he came back to talk. And when you talk without taking action afterwards - the thing The Rock always did - the talk becomes idle and bromidic. Just a jizz-fest for those Attitude Era loving clowns, remembering the glory days of the WWF. Hint, hint: if the WWE was truly a product worth watching you wouldn't have to pop a boner every time there's a hint of an old era coming back, you'd already have one for the current 2011 state of your favorite company.

 

[vampireblade]

.... did you say that people watch WWE to see the wrestling? THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!

LOL funniest thing ive heard in forever zeven zion should be a comedian for this one. However it is sort of true nobody watches wwe for wrestling unless your strictly watching for Bryan Danielson

.Hint, hint: if the WWE was truly a product worth watching you wouldn't have to pop a boner every time there's a hint of an old era coming back, you'd already have one for the current 2011 state of your favorite company

hit the nail on the head here take this for example i loved loved TNA back in the asylum years even early years of the impact zone but guess what i love their current product and im very excited to see where they take it from here

 

[Brian in Austin]

Look at the bolded words. And TNA are making themselves look like "imbreds"?

See, I love you WWE (s)marks repeating the same shit about Vince not giving a damn about TNA as many times as you can, as if you're trying to convince yourselves it is true. I guess LayCool was just a bright idea he came up with.

So after a year and a half of the IWC bitching, moaning, complaining and being a pain in the ass, TNA finally vows to put more focus on the wrestling aspect of the show and you ... once again ... bitch about it? Why? Because it's a counter on WWE dropping wrestling from its name? Is that bad, somehow? No, sucker, that's GOOD. People always say that TNA shouldn't care about WWE does and concentrate on their own product, and to those people I say - are you out of your damn mind? Do you know who focuses on their own product and doesn't give a damn about the competition? Ring of Honor. How are they doing?

Call it what you like but this is a great strategic move that came at just the right time, is being hyped heavily and even the loudest TNA critics are now ready to give TNA another chance. Any incessant bitching about this is just WWE cultists foaming at the mouth that TNA might do what WWE doesn't have the nuts to - be proud of being a pro wrestling company, actually listen to their fans and do what they've been begging for and improve their product by adding a bit more wrestling to it so it has everything and gets better. 'Been a while since WWE's done that, right?

Look, I think McMahon sees an opportunity to take his company in a different direction. It is his business to do so with and he assumes all the risk involved. His shows continue to produce solid ratings, finishing T9 for the week ending May 2nd, with a 3.1 market share, or 5,407,000 viewers.

I understand it bothers a lot of folks that WWE has shifted their programming to a different structure and even more that they've taken the word wrestling out of their branding. But times change and in order for companies to remain successful they must, from time to time, change with those times.

Time will tell if this was the right move for their company as they move forward but I don't see where, when they are competing against American Idol, the NBA playoffs, MLB, and Dancing with The Stars, that they are doing poorly. In fact, I'd say they're holding their own just fine given the competition for viewers today.

 

[aaronmb]

I think itll be a really bad sign if hogan/bischoff come out and do a 10 minute promo at the start of Impact.
Id like to see either it start with a match(particularly x division match) or Foley come out and do some small promo.

 

[GrandSword]

I'll always remember what Vince McMahon said when he was interviewed on Beyond the Mat, (and this was over 15 years ago). He said we don't do wrestling, we make movies".

That statement was always interesting to me and I've never forgotten it.

To stay on topic I've always been a TNA fan and although have been a huge critic of the product since Hogan arrived, last week's battle royal (although I don't like Battle Royals) said to me that this truly might be a step in the right direction. Mick Foley during the BR, stated that it was all about no politics and sorting it out in the ring.

So I'm willing to give Impact Wrestling the benefit of the doubt and will be very interested in the this week's episode and it's format. Tiem will tell if it's all talk or if wrestling really does matter

 

[Dizzy]

Nice generalization dude.

I am your everyday normal TNA hater, and I haven't watch the product for a month. But, I decided to what Sacrifice last night. It was a good PPV, much better than Lockdown and on par with Wrestlemania 27 IMO.

Not every person hate's everything TNA does becuase it's TNA. Sure, some people are like that, just like how there's blind WWE hater's. You know that, "WWE sux today, I wish it was how it was in 1997." When, they don't exactly watch the product!

And you talk about if it was a good match it'll get bashed. A good match is a good match, no matter what company. I though the Kazarian/Max Buck last night was very good and well paced. I also though Chris Master's vs. Drew McIntyre on Superstar's was a fantastic match. If it's a bad match, like Cena/Miz at WM 27, I'll say it's a bad match. That match was a bad match for reason's that'll take another 2 paragraph's to explain.

I just don't like TNA becuase of their constant swerves, heel/face turn's, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, RVD, Anderson, Bischoff, and the fact that they can't keep bashing the WWE. I'll still give it a change though, and I can praise it, unlike some of the TNA lover's who can't give WWE a chance but take pot-shot's at it from time to time.

Here is an example: Shelton Benjamin said TNA is confusing and he didn't understand what was going on....He said he hasn't watched TNA since 2007.

So, explain to me. Is that a valid opinion? Fact is people talk shit instead of actually enjoying TNA for what it is.

TNA put on a few PPV quality shows and people said that they ditched the storylines and it was inconsistent. Is that a valid opinion ?

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Here is an example: Shelton Benjamin said TNA is confusing and he didn't understand what was going on....He said he hasn't watched TNA since 2007.

So, explain to me. Is that a valid opinion? Fact is people talk shit instead of actually enjoying TNA for what it is.

TNA put on a few PPV quality shows and people said that they ditched the storylines and it was inconsistent. Is that a valid opinion ?

Yeah in way it is a valid opinion. Just look at the IMPACT WRESTLING product lately. Let'S take for exemple the leadership angle going on right now. Over the past few years, you had Dixie Carter who was the president of TNA, Jarrett who was the founder, Foley who was the shareholder then all of a sudden Hogan & bischoff comes in takes over Dixie's job and they control TNA and Now Foley control Hogan & Bischoff because he'S the network guy. Don't forget that for some reason they also mention that Earl Hebner can fired peoples and that Sting can makes his own match while he's world Champion. That a very complicated storyline that you have to take notes just to figure out who is in charge of what exactly.

So yes TNA is a really complicated product to follow and it takes away any fun you would have watching the product. Also sometimes they just do stupid things that makes no sense at all outside of making some wrestlers look bad especially the x-division.

Sorry, but this could be such a good product if the energy of the company was focus on making a easy to follow product instead of trying to always swerve peoples and making over complicated storylines. They say Wrestling matters, then prove it, change your product, stop living in the past and make a product that his appealing to the fans. I really would love to be able to watch an episode of IMPACT WRESTLING without having my notebook beside me to understand what going on.

 

[Rayne]

Here is an example: Shelton Benjamin said TNA is confusing and he didn't understand what was going on....He said he hasn't watched TNA since 2007.

So, explain to me. Is that a valid opinion? Fact is people talk shit instead of actually enjoying TNA for what it is.

TNA put on a few PPV quality shows and people said that they ditched the storylines and it was inconsistent. Is that a valid opinion ?

Shelton's is a very valid opinion. TNA is in the middle of a growth phase. They are investing amounts of money into their product over the past couple of years which they haven't previously, which implies that they expect to grow their product for the expense. If one person had this complaint, it probably wouldn't mean much, but you see it all the time. New viewers are not being invested into the TNA product, because there is a significant bar-of-entry which requires you to be able to follow TNA's storylines. They aren't particularly complicated, they just dart in several directions for no particular reason. Too much happens, and people don't say "this is really confusing to me, but I bet if I continue watching, I'll understand it eventually." They say "screw this, there are a couple hundred channels and something else is on."

TNA is trying to expand their product. If people who work in the industry are saying they find the product too difficult to follow, the product probably could use an examination. OR, alternately, we can be like so many other TNA fans on the internet and assume that the only people TNA is written for are the people who are already watching it.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Shelton's is a very valid opinion. TNA is in the middle of a growth phase. They are investing amounts of money into their product over the past couple of years which they haven't previously, which implies that they expect to grow their product for the expense. If one person had this complaint, it probably wouldn't mean much, but you see it all the time. New viewers are not being invested into the TNA product, because there is a significant bar-of-entry which requires you to be able to follow TNA's storylines. They aren't particularly complicated, they just dart in several directions for no particular reason. Too much happens, and people don't say "this is really confusing to me, but I bet if I continue watching, I'll understand it eventually." They say "screw this, there are a couple hundred channels and something else is on."

TNA is trying to expand their product. If people who work in the industry are saying they find the product too difficult to follow, the product probably could use an examination. OR, alternately, we can be like so many other TNA fans on the internet and assume that the only people TNA is written for are the people who are already watching it.

So essentially what you're suggesting is that TNA should kneel before any individual in this business who chooses to be openly critical about it for a reason that is such a pile of garbage that it makes me cry blood? TNA is not running the pro-wrestling branch of the Make a Wish foundation. If they listened to the opinion of Shelton Benjamin or anybody else for that matter, they'd have 2 straight hour of wrestling (the very idea which ruins Ring of Honor day by day) and be ran by Paul Heyman (which equals a disaster).

That tired "but I don't understand it" complaint is idle and idiotic. 1.8 million people "get it" every Thursday. Why? Because they follow the product. Of course you won't be able to get it when you haven't watched for a long time and just turned on the damn thing. Tune in any show on TV after its 5th season, a random episode, and I doubt you'd know every single name of every single character, every single of their personal traits, agendas, roles, importance and characteristics.

In this particular case Benjamin was simply talking out of his ass, just like a large portion of the IWC. They don't follow the product, thus they don't understand it fully, then they complain about fictitious reasons that do not exist and are a product of nothing more but the fact that they don't watch the program frequently enough to understand what TNA is all about. A few examples are: "TNA is WWE-Lite", "They're not pushing their young guys". Those are very common and stem from the people's stupidity, it's not an error by TNA.

 

[Rayne]

So essentially what you're suggesting is that TNA should kneel before any individual in this business who chooses to be openly critical about it for a reason that is such a pile of garbage that it makes me cry blood? TNA is not running the pro-wrestling branch of the Make a Wish foundation. If they listened to the opinion of Shelton Benjamin or anybody else for that matter, they'd have 2 straight hour of wrestling (the very idea which ruins Ring of Honor day by day) and be ran by Paul Heyman (which equals a disaster).

No, that is not what I'm essentially suggesting. That is a gross exaggeration of what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that if there is a continuous, constant complaint from a large segment of your prospective audience, it very likely has some merit. TNA isn't your little private pet company, building storylines for your own personal enjoyment; they are a company which has their eyes on rapid expansion, and thus should be attuned to anything which should obstruct that.

That tired "but I don't understand it" complaint is idle and idiotic. 1.8 million people "get it" every Thursday. Why? Because they follow the product. Of course you won't be able to get it when you haven't watched for a long time and just turned on the damn thing. Tune in any show on TV after its 5th season, a random episode, and I doubt you'd know every single name of every single character, every single of their personal traits, agendas, roles, importance and characteristics.

Missed post points for $1000, Alex? 1.8 million people means absolutely dick when it's the same audience you had two years ago, after a large scale investment in the company. Do I expect to know every nuance of a fifth-season television show? No, and a fifth-season television show is much different than the form of entertainment TNA provides. The fifth-season television show is expected to be on the decline, merely existing as it holds numbers large enough to justify its continued existence. TNA hopes to do more then to continue to exist until the audience is sick of them; they are hoping to increase the size of their weekly audience.

All of that was explained earlier, but OMG, someone said something critical of TNA, and Zeven_Zion isn't going to let logic or a coherent argument get in his way of attacking anyone who criticizes TNA.

In this particular case Benjamin was simply talking out of his ass, just like a large portion of the IWC. They don't follow the product, thus they don't understand it fully, then they complain about fictitious reasons that do not exist and are a product of nothing more but the fact that they don't watch the program frequently enough to understand what TNA is all about. A few examples are: "TNA is WWE-Lite", "They're not pushing their young guys". Those are very common and stem from the people's stupidity, it's not an error by TNA.

You're asking people to get entirely invested in a product before it starts paying off for them. Commerce doesn't work that way. In an age where someone can press a button and be watching any of two-hundred different things, it's up to the companies to attract viewers and give them reasons to watch. If you are not attracting attention, it's the COMPANY that is doing something wrong. What you are trying to do is blame TNA's prospective audience for not being interested in TNA. That, and listing a whole bunch of strawman arguments that have nothing to do with anything I wrote. It's the audience's fault for not watching- let's see how quick THAT little strategy will increase TNA's weekly viewership.

If you were looking towards a career in advertising, I would suggest examining another field.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

So essentially what you're suggesting is that TNA should kneel before any individual in this business who chooses to be openly critical about it for a reason that is such a pile of garbage that it makes me cry blood? TNA is not running the pro-wrestling branch of the Make a Wish foundation. If they listened to the opinion of Shelton Benjamin or anybody else for that matter, they'd have 2 straight hour of wrestling (the very idea which ruins Ring of Honor day by day) and be ran by Paul Heyman (which equals a disaster).

That tired "but I don't understand it" complaint is idle and idiotic. 1.8 million people "get it" every Thursday. Why? Because they follow the product. Of course you won't be able to get it when you haven't watched for a long time and just turned on the damn thing. Tune in any show on TV after its 5th season, a random episode, and I doubt you'd know every single name of every single character, every single of their personal traits, agendas, roles, importance and characteristics.

In this particular case Benjamin was simply talking out of his ass, just like a large portion of the IWC. They don't follow the product, thus they don't understand it fully, then they complain about fictitious reasons that do not exist and are a product of nothing more but the fact that they don't watch the program frequently enough to understand what TNA is all about. A few examples are: "TNA is WWE-Lite", "They're not pushing their young guys". Those are very common and stem from the people's stupidity, it's not an error by TNA.

This is the exact exemple of what a TNA mark is. You could bring any valid point against the company and they will find a way to spin this to make the company look good.

TNA has a complicated product to follow, everybody knows that except for those TNA marks that don'T want to except the reality that is TNA. Without look at a notebook or any wrestling websites i would like one of those marks to tell me has far as storyline purpose goes, who in charges of TNA right now because i sure as hell don't. They have Hogan and Bischoff running the company but they have to answer to Mick Foley, Sting can pretty much book whatever championship match he wants, Jarrett still has some power as the founder of TNA then you have Earl Hebner who technicly as the power to fired peoples. If that's not a complicated storyline i don'T know what is.

TNA also use to be the place where if you were different you could still get a push, now in a year the pretty much destroyed the x-division and the current storyline really doesn'T help them at all. The knockout division is a shell of what it once was and is worst then the WWE divas at this point and what can i say about the Tag Team division, really not that strong. The World title picture is really boring right now with the same guys always getting title shots.

I'm not saying that WWE does any better but while they are boring, they at less try to keep it simple. TNA goes out of there wait to complicated thing that shouldn'T be complicated. They waste money on taking jab at WWE when they could take that money and invest it in getting the company over with the fans. TNA is doing between 1,0 and 1,4 ratings every weeks. They been doing that for the last four years now. With the roster they have they should be doing a lot better and if Spike TV finally give up on them, then i don'T see another network picking them up because the product is stale and doesn'T sell well. So i really hope that thing change but just by reading the spoilers for this week, i doubt they will.

 

[rondiesel2005]

This is the exact exemple of what a TNA mark is. You could bring any valid point against the company and they will find a way to spin this to make the company look good.

TNA has a complicated product to follow, everybody knows that except for those TNA marks that don'T want to except the reality that is TNA. Without look at a notebook or any wrestling websites i would like one of those marks to tell me has far as storyline purpose goes, who in charges of TNA right now because i sure as hell don't. They have Hogan and Bischoff running the company but they have to answer to Mick Foley, Sting can pretty much book whatever championship match he wants, Jarrett still has some power as the founder of TNA then you have Earl Hebner who technicly as the power to fired peoples. If that's not a complicated storyline i don'T know what is.

TNA also use to be the place where if you were different you could still get a push, now in a year the pretty much destroyed the x-division and the current storyline really doesn'T help them at all. The knockout division is a shell of what it once was and is worst then the WWE divas at this point and what can i say about the Tag Team division, really not that strong. The World title picture is really boring right now with the same guys always getting title shots.

I'm not saying that WWE does any better but while they are boring, they at less try to keep it simple. TNA goes out of there wait to complicated thing that shouldn'T be complicated. They waste money on taking jab at WWE when they could take that money and invest it in getting the company over with the fans. TNA is doing between 1,0 and 1,4 ratings every weeks. They been doing that for the last four years now. With the roster they have they should be doing a lot better and if Spike TV finally give up on them, then i don'T see another network picking them up because the product is stale and doesn'T sell well. So i really hope that thing change but just by reading the spoilers for this week, i doubt they will.

you are absolutely right, they got too many authority figure surrounding that company that will become a problem when the fans complain that they get too much television time. speaking of the roster. If you look at the roster and the time slot for impact, to me its impossible to fit all them wrestlers on one show. Which is why they like to throw everything on one night. We are suppose to see matt morgan vs Scott Steiner feud, what happen to them two? We got Gunner who is tv champion, remind me why they have that title again?? As for the X division, i get the feeling they don't really know what to do with title.

As far as I know, Dixie Carter's mother is in charge from what i heard. They keep talking about taking impact on the road as if they need to do a lot of shows on the road and do a lot of traveling which i don't think some of the guys want to do. Some of them prefer lighter schedule like for example like Sting. He doesn't want to do much. As world champion, i think the fans are expecting a guy who world champion to do much and treat it like a world champion

 

[Fenris]

This is the exact exemple of what a TNA mark is. You could bring any valid point against the company and they will find a way to spin this to make the company look good.

How did he not bring valid points? He brought up several valid points.

TNA has a complicated product to follow, everybody knows that except for those TNA marks that don'T want to except the reality that is TNA. Without look at a notebook or any wrestling websites i would like one of those marks to tell me has far as storyline purpose goes, who in charges of TNA right now because i sure as hell don't. They have Hogan and Bischoff running the company but they have to answer to Mick Foley, Sting can pretty much book whatever championship match he wants, Jarrett still has some power as the founder of TNA then you have Earl Hebner who technicly as the power to fired peoples. If that's not a complicated storyline i don'T know what is.

Alright, i'll address this one. Unfortunately yes, it will be with several comparisons. Alright, so we're doing the power structure, right?

WWF, 1999-2001(?): Yeah i'm using a WWF example, your point? Let's go back to that two year block and the power structure during that period. Let's see, we had Vince the evil owner, yet his wife somehow had more power and could overrule him while Shawn Michaels was the Commish and supposedly the guy in charge of making the matches and running the program, except Stone Cold took control of the company with more power than all of them. Then Vinces kids somehow have ownership and power, 4 owners, and now Foley as Commish, then Triple H marries Steph and somehow that gives them full control except The Rock has the power to rehire the people they fire. J.R. also somehow suddenly had the power to sign whomever he wanted and book whatever matches he wanted. Somehow it morphs into Shane buying WCW, Steph buying ECW and they somehow no longer have any power in the WWF until the Invasion is squashed and they sell their ownerships in the WWF to Ric Flair who somehow controls everything over Vince, oh look there's Linda again with full control again.

In a two year period the WWF had SIX kayfabe owners and TEN different people in a position of power.

WCW, 1997-1999: So lets see, Bischoff runs WCW, but also the nWo, except every few months J.J. Dillon shows up and somehow runs the whole thing when Piper isn't acting as Commish or Flair isn't somehow stealing all the control in WCW only to somehow lose it. Didn't Nash somehow take control too for that month where he morphed from tag team wrestler to the guy who beat Goldberg and everyone else on the roster?

ECW: Well... We had Paul Heyman as the owner of course, except Shane Douglas could make whatever match he wanted made, until he left and we had Paul E. the Owner feuding with Cyrus the TNN executive who somehow controlled ECW via "The Network" and by that point RVD and Tommy Dreamer could book matches at random at events without Cyrus or Heyman saying much.

Point being, complicated power structures have been a part of wrestling for over a decade now, it's nothing new. Thankfully in TNA's case they HAVEN'T reached the absolute clusterfucks the other companies had going on.

The knockout division is a shell of what it once was and is worst then the WWE divas at this point

It is laughable, because the Divas division is nowhere near The Knockouts. Not even in the same stratosphere. As for a "shell of what it once was" let's see, we have Velvet, Madison, Angelina, Winter, Mickey James, Tara, Ms. Tessmacher, Sarita and possibly Chyna. Unlike before when a closet case was running TNA we're actually DOING stuff with them now and giving them decent storylines instead of "ok you 5 are eye candy only, you three are in a stable and you two feud what that stable."

and what can i say about the Tag Team division, really not that strong.

Beer Money
Gen Me
Ink Inc
Mexican America
Gunner & Murphy(Gunner is in a storyline right now but they're still a team)
Hardy and Harris
OJ and Eric Young
Motor City Machine Guns(Taking a break for now but will be back)
British Invasion are reformed and being worked back into the picture

Hmm, 9 tag teams. Yeah, looks pretty weak. It looks like Roode, a young guy will be getting a push and AMW will probably reform leaving us with... 9 teams still. I'm trying to remember.... Two years ago what was the tag division like again? Wasn't it basically AMW, The Naturals and Team 3D? I cannot recall TNA's tag division ever being this stacked and strong before.

As for not pushing new guys, hmm. I seem to recall AJ Styles is still a top guy in a feud with Bully Ray who is getting a nice push, they're setting up Robert Roode for a push, Crimson is getting a push, they gave Pope and Samoa Joe several pushes and been trying to find what works for them, they gave Abyss a push, Mr. Anderson is a young guy with a nice push as a Main Eventer... That's 7 guys they've been working with to get over as the future of TNA. Big BIG improvement over when the Main Event was comprised of Sting, Booker, Angle, Nash and Jarrett. The only "old" guy in that entire list is Bully Ray.


You can call me whatever you want. TNA mark, whatever. I don't care. I'm not saying they're perfect, that I enjoy everything about it or that some things couldn't be better. But I am liking where they're at and where they're going and it beats PG Entertainment and the TNA of the past, that's for sure. If you hate the product that's cool man, god bless ya and that's you're right but just be honest, or at least bring something more to the table than the above.

 

[Brian in Austin]

I think what some of us are trying to say here is that TNA often seems to be trying too hard to win over WWE fans or even fans in general by trying to be all things to all people. This to me says there is no clear direction or mission statement for the company that guides their principles of production and use of their talent. Instead, it seems like as these folks come to work each day it's a crapshoot what will happen, if you'll get some tv time, or if they even have work for you.

Their roster is far too heavy now and they need to get rid of some talent, especially if some of those folks aren't getting any time on tv or in storylines.

At the end of the day, it's all about their ability to grow their product and judging by their PPV buyrates of 2010, and their current tv ratings v. ly, that's not happening. And given all they invested in getting HH, Bischoff and many others on board, that can't be a good thing.