Wrestlemania XXX Aftermath & Discussion

Do you feel better now after all that incoherent babbling?? While everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it definitely sounds like you've been pretty disappointed w/WWE for a while, yet you still spent the money to see it. And Cena is the only one who can beat Bryan, yet Bryan pinned him cleanly at Summerslam.
 
I actually just re-watched the Taker-Brock match. It wasn't as bad as I thought initially. At first I was expecting some real craziness. Although we didn't get all that, it was still an actual good match. It's weird how when the dust settles and the anticipation is gone, your perspective totally changes.

I was expecting someone going through a table here, chair shots there, maybe Taker trying a high risk maneuver and Brock being able to inflict a little bit more damage. That's why I didn't appreciate what actually happened at the time. Building something up so much sometimes can ruin a good thing if it doesn't deliver exactly the way you hoped.

Brock still got off some tough moves...belly to belly where he tossed Taker like a rag doll, power bombs from Hells Gate...even though one was kinda weak. 2 German suplexes...again the first was weak. The countless knees to the chest and clubs to Takers back were pretty rough. My fav was the punching onslaught he layed on Taker while against the ropes...almost like Brock was showing Taker that he couldn't hang in the MMA world with him.

Brock really did dominate him and comes out looking like a MEGA heel which is his game to a Tee. The celebration between Brock and Heyman was well done too. The delay wasn't as long as I thought, and it all looked pretty legit the second time around.
 
This stuff happens more often than not. You sound like you might need to do something other than watch WWE programming.
 
I thought it was a very good wrestlemania, with very little weak points. It was certainly mostly very well booked too. I would say that apart from HHH/Bryan and the consequences on the title, the build up to this wrestlemania was underwhelming. However the event itself delivered, had a blast watching this.
 
I'm certainly glad that I got the overall idea of what your're trying to say, because if I tried to comprehend some of these random comments without a decent grasp of the English language, I'd be in fucking trouble. Moving on....

You sound like a bitter kid with no idea what you were watching. Every single match that I watched last night told me a story. I'm not saying the stories were always pleasant to be a part of, but each story needed to happen as it did, in my opinion. Every segment did its job, from the opening "Silverdome, brother", to the YES! celebration at the end of the night. To me, this was one of the best Wrestlemania events in history. Let's break it down:

HUGE crowd pops at the beginning of the show
Excellent HHH/Bryan match (maybe one of Trips' best matches IMO)
A Shield beatdown (which was needed)
Bray Wyatt's standout performance
The Shock of the evening leaves jaws on the floor
Piss Break for the Divas match
Awesome ending to the evening.

As many an auctioneer say daily, SOLD! May I have another?
 
You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Last night was a thrill ride of ups and downs, and I thought it was the best booked show in a long time. To some of your specific points:

Bryan wasn't booked as the unstoppable killing machine you make him out to be. The Trips win was well done with him getting dominated but pulling out what felt like a gutsy, but fluke, win. The running knee is one of those moves like Sweet Chin music that he can use to pull out a win at a moment's notice. Actually, a lot about his style reminds me of Shawn, which should come as no surprise. Shawn was the best ever at looking like he had the holy hell beat out of him the whole match and then pulling it out, and Bryan definitely channeled that. It was the classic David vs. Goliath one great (lucky) shot. I also thought the Main Event was well-booked. Everybody beat the hell out of everybody else, with Bryan really not doing a lot of damage to either Batista or Orton, but he was in the right place at the right time. So I don't think he looked "ridiculously strong" at all.

I thought the buildup to Cena/Wyatt, while brief, was excellent, and the in-ring storytelling was on par with Austin/Bret and HHH/Taker HIAC, which I consider to be the two best psychological stories ever told in the ring at Wrestlemania. This feud is definitely not over, either, but I think it did a ton for Bray in getting him over as one of the most dynamic characters in WWE going forward.

And then there's Brock/Taker. I don't disagree with your assessment that it felt more like right place/right time than an epic accomplishment, but maybe we have to come to grips with the fact that it was always going to be that way as Taker got older. With that said, the reaction of the crowd (and my own) when that third count echoed through a shocked and silent stadium is a moment I will never forget, which is exactly what Wrestlemania should try to accomplish. The shock was built on all the things you mention, like Brock being a part-timer, so, in a way, it was the perfect time to do it.

We can agree on the pretty meh Andre Battle Royal, but it got a moment in, too, so it's not a complete waste. And I actually thought it was fun to see the Shield just beat the hell out of Kane/NAO. I think it might be setting up an amicable semi-parting (we've accomplished everything we can as a group, we'll always have each other's backs, but let's see what we can do on our own), which I think is so much better than a clichéd breakup we've seen a million times.

So let's see what happens with the principles of each match before we jump to judgment, but even if they botch it all I thought it was a great night last night.
 
Wow very pessimistic point of view... This Mania was one of the biggest and best imo.
I don't know what you mean by some segments or matches having "no point" or "not proving anything"... The SCSA, Rock, Hogan segment was one of the most epic moments in WWE history, there didn't need to be a point, it was something that we never thought we would see and I applaud WWE for dishing out the money to reel these 3 in for the night. (People call WWE cheap and than bitch when they spend money...)

The Andre battle royal "proved" that Cesaro is a friggin beast and the fact that he won it over people like Big Show, Sheamus, Mysterio, Ziggler, Del Rio, etc even after having a match already is big.

I dont see what your problem with Daniel Bryan is either... is it because he's small? If you can believe that Shawn Michaels can beat the Undertaker, than you can believe that Bryan can beat Triple H, AND yeah Bryan won the match but most of it was dominated by Orton and Batista so it's not like he destroyed them.

As far as Cena goes, it has NOTHING to do with Cena "burying" Wyatt... Its not like he books these matches btw people, and Wyatt looked STRONG against Cena... The match benefitted both people, Wyatt proved his point and Cena won the match.

Some people just cant be pleased
 
The tag match was a nice warm up for the crowd, and the right team won.

The sight of Hogan, Austin, and Rock together in the same ring at Wrestlemania provided a great nostalgia kick. A surreal moment for any wrestling fan, and a great opening segment for the main card.

Bryan VS Triple H was phenomenal, and I was kind of surprised Stephanie stayed at ringside (Stephanie's legs= the real distraction) to play the role of a cheerleader. Triple H threw everything he had at Bryan, but DB overcame the odds for the victory. And the post match attack from Stephanie and Triple H didn't surprise me too much.

The Shield VS The NAO & Kane was too run-of-the-mill for another Shield six man tag team match. Still, a nice dominant victory for The Shield, and hopefully we'll get the triple threat at Mania 31 next year.

The Andre battle royal surprised the hell out of me. It started out slow, but things really picked up towards the end, and it took me a while to notice Big Show paying tribute to Andre with his ring gear. Cesaro lifting Show for the elimination was an incredible and jaw dropping feat of strength, and it's time for a strong solo's push for Cesaro.

John Cena VS Bray Wyatt told an incredible story, with Bray pushing Cena to his limits. Bray tempted Cena over and over again to tap into his dark side, so he could unleash the "monster," and Cena did a good job of playing up the conflict inside of him. He walked up to the line, but he never crossed it. It's a unique match, and the psychological warfare between both men was something to admire.

I couldn't move or talk for a few minutes after Lesnar VS Taker. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I felt a genuine, gut-wrenching shock from anything in pro wrestling, because I'm too young to vividly remember the shock from Hogan's heel turn. You could clearly see the looks of sadness, heartbreak, anger, and shock on the faces in the crowd, and the eerie stunned silence after the match was unbelievable. And kudos to Heyman and Lesnar for selling the shock after the match.

The match itself didn't live up to expectations, and you could tell Brock was holding back. I expected Lesnar to maul Taker out of the gate, but Lesnar took it easy on Taker throughout the match, and you could clearly see it. If the reports about Taker's health are true, then I can understand why he felt the need for The Streak to come to an end. And I'm glad WWE kept the physicality to a mimnuim between these two during the build. Taker is nearing 50, and after last night, it's clear he can't handle the punishment and all those poundings anymore.

The Invitational was a clusterfuck, but that's no surprise. At one point, I remember multiple pin fall cover attempts in the ring at the same time, but you could say this match gave the crowd a chance to collect themselves for the triple threat after the shock from Taker VS Brock wore off. AJ needs a fresh challenger, though. She survived the ambush from the Total Divas crew, but there's still some room to toy around with a boss VS bodyguard feud between AJ and Tamina.

An amazing main event, and the Batista Bomb into the RKO on Bryan through the announce table is one of the most devastating spots I've ever seen. Lots of action, and they dragged Bryan through the mud, but the scrappy underdog prevailed in the end. After so many months with false finishes and screw jobs, WWE needed to deliver a payoff to conclude Bryan's journey for the world championship, and they didn't disappoint last night.

A superb Wrestlemania with three legit Match Of The Year candidates (Bryan VS Triple H, Orton VS Bryan VS Batista, and Cena VS Bray), and the show rolled along like a breeze, because I barely felt the 4+ hours. And I'm happy they kept Hogan's role as host to a mimnuim, because the opening segment with Rock and Austin was more than enough for a nostalgia buzz. Although, the Sliverdome botch was kind of funny, and call me crazy, but I couldn't shake this feeling for Hogan being a little nervous in front of a big crowd for the first time in years.

Grade: A
 
Cena - Wyatt build up has been a lot more than two weeks and it still only the middle of the story. How many title opportunities have the Wyatts cost Cena now? Just giving on Cena ' s radar was the first step, the match had a brilliant psychology that adds to Bray ' s character. Just the idea that he has no care for wins and losses or even his own well being, makes him a more disturbing character. It is all about his message, this battle doesn't matter only the war.

As for Bryan, in the HHH match up, ring rust coupled with overconfidence easily explain that Hunter took him lightly. In the triple threat, 1. Randy has been a paper champion since Summerslam, always having help or some shortcut that allowed him to overcome. 2. Bryan did not beat them two on one, every guy wanted to win and each attacked each other. Triple threats are rarely won by the biggest or the strongest, but usually by the smartest and luckiest
 
Wow Kizzani. You spent four and a half hours watching something that was a flop. I feel bad for you. I watched until the end but I was extremely enjoying myself. I feel like I would have to be a complete loser or masochist to sit through the whole show after being so disappointed in the first three or so hours.

So are you a complete loser or a masochist?
 
That is the biggest pile of crap I have ever read. Some people just are destined not to be happy. Bryan loses all the time then he finally wins and it isn't good enough. People complain about the streak and that it'll never end and the story is boring, then it gets broke and it isn't good enough.

Brock Lesnar is the most LEGIT guy in the WWE. I don't agree with how they have used him since his return, BUT, if it were to end, he is the guy. Does anyone actually believe for a second that The 50 year old Undertaker could defeat the former UFC Heavyweight champion? Not a chance. While I have mixed feelings on the whole match, it was the first time as a wrestling fan since 1996 that my jaw dropped and the last thought of thing happened. It will be something to remember forever, and that to me is worth it.

I think the overall booking of the show was great too. Bring crowd down with Taker losing, have Bryan go over and send crowd home happy. There has been better Wrestlemanias but there have been a lot, a lot worse.

At the end of the day, you negative people need to realize this is all a work. Undertaker doesn't need to put over Bray, or Reigns, or ANYONE.
 
First Mania I've enjoyed from start to finish in years. So I completely disagree with you on most of your points.

Same here, Vale. The OP clearly has no idea what he's talking about, IMO. I thoroughly enjoyed WM30, except for the Divas match. The Tag Title match had plenty of action, Lesnar provided us with our shock value of the night, and Bryan won the big one, just like we were all hoping. Honestly, I think the booking was spot on, and the only match that could have been better (besides the Divas, duh) was possibly OAO/Kane vs. The Shield. But meh, I'm happy with that outcome too. 3 young bucks whooping the crap outta 3 geriatrics in short order...all good.
 
Hi, I posted regularly on this site years and years ago as a teenager, haven't been on since about 2003. I'm 25 now, and my little bro moved in with me at the start of this last fall. We've always bonded over wrestling, and because of that, I've been watching Raw regularly since then (again for the first time since about 2003).
Kizzani, you sound a lot like I did when I "quit" watching wrestling all those years ago. You are disillusioned. You see the unfair hierarchy at the top of the WWE, and you want more than just a bunch of big guys bumbling around the ring, and getting undeserved pushes. I feel that.
However, as someone who's been on the outside looking in for the last decade, lurking in the shadows of pro wrestling, keeping track but not investing, I'm here to tell you, definitively, that things are MUCH better than you seem to think they are. Last night's Wrestlemania proved that, so much so that I came back to this site as a grown man just so I could talk about it with people that "understand."
Not only was last night's PPV a rousing success, I honestly feel like it's right up there with the top 3-5 Mania's ever. I was completely invested in every single match, even the Divas match piqued my interest (in a MUCH different way than any of the other matches, granted). Since you took the match by match approach, I'll do the same:
Hogan, Rock and Stone Cold
What "point" is there to miss about this moment? For 10 minutes, I got to watch 3 guys I spent nearly my entire life watching and mimicking, cut a promo together and drink beer. And this is a bad thing......why? I marked out hard for that shit, and I'm not afraid to admit it.
Andre Battle Royal
Not the most exciting match of the evening, and nobody expected it to be. However, there were 4 or 5 really cool spots (including Cesaro CLEANLY picking up the FUCKING BIG SHOW, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?! How awesome was that), and somebody who really needs to be pushed had his very first WM moment. Even Zig Zag was in the top 4, which says that while he seems to be taking some sort of extended "punishment" from the big wigs, at least they are paying attention to the fans, and how over he is. I think this was done about as good as it could've been.
Triple H vs Daniel Bryan
I loved everything about this match. Even Hunter's ridiculous, over the top entrance, because it made him look like a complete pompous ass. The way he seemingly "toyed" with Bryan early on, laughing at the thought of Bryan's challenge, beautiful heel work. Say what you want about HHH, the motherfucker "gets" this buisiness better than almost anybody. Stephanie did a great job outside the ring, taunting Bryan and the crowd. After an excellent 20 mins of ring work, which saw every move executed with near perfection from both guys, the finish was exciting, quick, and abrupt. The post match beat down set the stage for Bryan getting put over in a MAJOR way, something I'll touch on in a bit.
Shield vs Outlaws and Kane
Again, what were you expecting? A 30 minute mat classic? From 2 guys that JBL reminded us are combined over 100 years old? The end result was what it needed to be, The Shield looked as dominant as ever, and there was a badass spot at the end of the match that made Roman Reigns (who is clearly in line for a future MONSTER push) look like a fucking beast. Would've loved to have seen more Rollins, and ESPECIALLY more Ambrose, but this was obviously the match that was destined to be the time saving squash from the very beginning.
Taker vs Lesnar
You mentioned in your original post that the result of this match accomplished "nothing." I couldn't disagree more. Brock Lesnar is one of those rare guys that regardless of how often he competes or how invested into the stories he is, dude's over, in a big way, and always will be. Putting him over a soon to be retired Undertaker was the only thing that made sense. Say Taker wins last night, then what? Even if he's not "done," he certainly isn't going to be wrestling in any matches for another year. He was obviously ready for the streak to end, and who better to end it than somebody who we KNOW could probably take the big man out with his bare hands in REAL LIFE. That's what Lesnar brings to the table, REAL LIFE DOMINANCE. He makes everything look like it hurts like hell. Taker looked old and tired last night. I'm sure part of that was intentional, but I think much of it was very real. He looked winded. He looked spent. Despite the slow nature early on in the match, it picked up towards the end, and the finish was spectacular. The reaction of the crowd was fucking priceless. What a WM moment, and for it to be considered anything otherwise is a detriment to Taker's unbelievable run.
Cena and Bray Wyatt
The end result wasn't what I wanted, but as HHH says, "you fans can't
get what you want all the time." The end result is not what mattered in this match. We needed to believe that Bray had a legit shot to take out the face of the WWE, and they made that happen. What a beautiful match. Wyatt's taunts and confusing behavior, more great ring psychology. This guy is going to be HUGE. Mark my words. He's got it all. Unrivaled on the mic, a unique and ever growing move set, a devastating finisher, a great, dark gimmick that despite it's ridiculousness is just believable enough (a la Stone Cold doing completely ridiculous things and never getting fired back in the day, same sort of deal). These guys went back and forth, didn't miss a spot, and kept the crowd invested, something that isn't always easy to do in a Cena match. Again, why Cena went over is beyond me, but I do agree with you on one thing, we haven't seen the last of this fued.
Daniel Bryan Vs. Orton Vs. Bootista
Ok, check it out. Bryan was put over more so than any other guy in Wrestlemania history last night, and there's NO fucking debate about that. He gets attacked by Hunter earlier in the night, then takes a Batista Bomb/RKO (cool spot by the way, never seen that before have you?) through the table, then gets taken out on a stretcher, only to refuse medical service, jump back in the ring, and make Bootista (the man who's taken the most brunt from the fans about Bryan's lack of push up to that point) tap out. Are you kidding me? The match itself wasn't 5 star, but I'd definitely say it was at least 4 star quality. (If you disagree, I dare you to give me evidence to back up your claim. Go watch the match again. There isn't any). Bryan finally gets his moment, in dramatic fashion no less, after nearly a whole year of build. What the hell else did you want? It was perfect! They put a fucking bow on that motherfucker!
Think about it for a sec, not only did WWE brass finally admit that not pushing Bryan was a fuck up, they actually MADE UP for it by making him look like such a badass last night.

My love for the WWE has been completely rejuvinated after last night. There are amazing things on the horizon. Bray Wyatt, Cesaro, The Shield, Dolph Ziggler, these guys are young, hungry, extremely talented, and have not even TOUCHED the full capacity of their potential. We are about to enter the next golden age of wrestling. I hope you're all strapped on for the ride.
 
As CharlesKane pointed out - the Bray Wyatt-Cena build up was more than two weeks... it goes back as far as Royal Rumble if I remember correctly, with The Wyatts costing Cena the match against Orton... then it continued at Elimination Chamber... all of that was part of the build up to this match. The match itself was very interesting. It felt like a triple threat - Bray vs Cena vs Cena's mind.

As for the rest of the show, I really enjoyed it... right from the opening segment with Hogan, Austin, and Rock all through the main event. I absolutely loved how Austin and Rock picked up on (I'm guessing it was a mistake) Hogan's mistake of calling the Superdome the Silverdome. The whole segment was a great way to start the show in my opinion.

I was shocked that Undertaker lost, but as I take a step back and reflect, I totally understand and appreciate it. I wanted some sort of a big surprise, something unpredictable, and this certainly delivered.

Cesaro winning the Battle Royal by essentially body slamming Big Show over the top rope was a classic move that was like Hogan slamming Andre the Giant (I'm sure this was the plan all along and the reason for naming it after Andre). If they wanted to end it a different way I am guessing they wouldn't have named it after Andre.

The Shield winning easily is cool, it makes them look strong, and I'm hoping this sets them up for a nice long run as a face team. I'm not ready for them to break up yet, but if they do it the right way I could get on board.

The Bryan outcomes were expected, but I will say coming in I had a little doubt that crept into my mind that HHH would pull the ultimate heel move and give himself the title. As previous posters have said, I don't agree with the original post that Bryan won in a pair of walkovers and it looks like he can't be beat. He overcame long odds and prevailed in the end, it isn't like he dominated the whole match in either case. In the final match I thought they had a couple really nice false endings before Bryan picked up the win.

To the original poster... if you are going to have this attitude towards the show we all just witnessed, maybe you should stop watching wrestling, or at least the WWE. Maybe it really isn't your thing. As previous posters have said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, what I'm saying to you is simply advice.
 
Think about it for a sec, not only did WWE brass finally admit that not pushing Bryan was a fuck up, they actually MADE UP for it by making him look like such a badass last night.

I somewhat agree with this except for the fact that they gave DB his Wrestlemania Moment on the same night that one of the biggest moments in wrestling history had just happened.

No matter what happened in the main event, even if Stone Cold, Hogan, The Rock and Sting had all entered that match and DB made them all tap, it still wouldn't have been bigger than Lesnar breaking the streak.

Yes, DB got his moment but it wasn't the main storyline from WM and it was almost like a subplot.
 
I just saw a story about WM on the local news, and I am looking it up on dirtsheets, (I don't know if I can post a link) It says that Vince McMahon was privately interviewed about what happened at WM30, and he says that Undertaker was scripted to win and Brock Lesnar will be fired.
 
I somewhat agree with this except for the fact that they gave DB his Wrestlemania Moment on the same night that one of the biggest moments in wrestling history had just happened.

No matter what happened in the main event, even if Stone Cold, Hogan, The Rock and Sting had all entered that match and DB made them all tap, it still wouldn't have been bigger than Lesnar breaking the streak.

Yes, DB got his moment but it wasn't the main storyline from WM and it was almost like a subplot.

I can see how you got to that, but I respectfully disagree. The Bryan/Authority feud has been the center of the WWE's story for the better part of a year, especially since last summer. Taker losing was probably the most important thing we'll take from last night, but as far as continuity, and payoff, 1 month of Taker popping in and confronting Lesnar pales in comparison to the year of buildup to DBry's big moment. The fact that Taker finally lost only adds to the awesomeness of the show that was all DBry last night, from start to finish, as it should've been.
 
I somewhat agree with this except for the fact that they gave DB his Wrestlemania Moment on the same night that one of the biggest moments in wrestling history had just happened.

No matter what happened in the main event, even if Stone Cold, Hogan, The Rock and Sting had all entered that match and DB made them all tap, it still wouldn't have been bigger than Lesnar breaking the streak.

Yes, DB got his moment but it wasn't the main storyline from WM and it was almost like a subplot.
What? Maybe to you personally it feels that way. To me he was the big deal and Lesnar/Taker was a swerve in the middle. Like in a movie when a character you like gets killed. That's not the main story, but it's memorable.

The more I think about it. The more I love the show. Not a single bad match. Even the Divas match was good. It wasn't a "clusterfuck". It was well choreographed and the abundance of ladies in it made the pins harder to come by. Kept the action up.
 
I loved it. Time could change my opinion but I this is probably in my top 3 Maina's of all time if not top 2.

The opening segment was magic. It was everything (HBK aside) I dreamed of and it worked. Triple H vs Bryan was a classic opening match and HHH did what needed to be done. Steph was also fantastic and I love Triple H working the arm.

The Shield match was fine. It served its purpose and I suppose it clears up why it was the NAO rather than a team on the active roster. The Battle royal was a fun addition and it was great they acknowledge Andre. Cesaro has serious potential and I hope he makes it.

Cena/Wyatt told an awesome story. It didn't go down as I expected but it worked. Bray could have looked stronger but this match did enough.

Taker vs Brock was incredible. The match wasn't great but the ending was awesome. One of the greatest things in wrestling history and I mean that. An amazing moment.

The triple threat was another top quality match. Bryan was, again, made to look like an underdog and there were some good false finishes. Both Orton and Batista had me fooled and the table spot was nice. Bryan winning had to happen and it helped to make this Mania iconic.

WM17 just pips it but this was a fantastic Wrestlemania. There were some very good matches. Younger superstars shining. Legends getting time on screen (no Flair was weird) and one of the greatest moments in wrestling history in The Undertaker losing. A fantastic Wrestlemania and it managed to meet my expectations.
 
Im calling BS on some of you guys. I dont know if you are just blinded by the DB moment and the streak ending or you are just stuck in the moment BUT saying that WM30 was on the level of WM17 is ridiculous.

WM30 arguably didnt have a classic match at all. HHH vs Bryan is probably the only match that could be argued but even that match wasnt a classic imo. WM17 had TWO classics.

TLC 2 and Rock vs Austin is 100% better than any match at WM30 and Taker vs HHH is easily comparable if not better than any match on WM30. Even Shane vs Vince and the triple threat hardcore match was better than almost every match at WM30. Thats 5 matches from WM17 that were either better or on par with every match at WM30. WM19 was also way better than WM30.

WM30 will always be known as the night the streak ended but no matches will really stand out. The DB moment will only be remembered if the rest of DB's career is great so we wont know how big that will be in wwe history until years later.

It was a solid WM. Every match except the womens match was solid. Not amazing but not terrible. To me, this was an average WM. Nowhere near as bad as WM27 BUT nowhere near as good at WM17.
 
You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Last night was a thrill ride of ups and downs, and I thought it was the best booked show in a long time. To some of your specific points:

Bryan wasn't booked as the unstoppable killing machine you make him out to be. The Trips win was well done with him getting dominated but pulling out what felt like a gutsy, but fluke, win. The running knee is one of those moves like Sweet Chin music that he can use to pull out a win at a moment's notice. Actually, a lot about his style reminds me of Shawn, which should come as no surprise. Shawn was the best ever at looking like he had the holy hell beat out of him the whole match and then pulling it out, and Bryan definitely channeled that. It was the classic David vs. Goliath one great (lucky) shot. I also thought the Main Event was well-booked. Everybody beat the hell out of everybody else, with Bryan really not doing a lot of damage to either Batista or Orton, but he was in the right place at the right time. So I don't think he looked "ridiculously strong" at all.

I thought the buildup to Cena/Wyatt, while brief, was excellent, and the in-ring storytelling was on par with Austin/Bret and HHH/Taker HIAC, which I consider to be the two best psychological stories ever told in the ring at Wrestlemania. This feud is definitely not over, either, but I think it did a ton for Bray in getting him over as one of the most dynamic characters in WWE going forward.

And then there's Brock/Taker. I don't disagree with your assessment that it felt more like right place/right time than an epic accomplishment, but maybe we have to come to grips with the fact that it was always going to be that way as Taker got older. With that said, the reaction of the crowd (and my own) when that third count echoed through a shocked and silent stadium is a moment I will never forget, which is exactly what Wrestlemania should try to accomplish. The shock was built on all the things you mention, like Brock being a part-timer, so, in a way, it was the perfect time to do it.

We can agree on the pretty meh Andre Battle Royal, but it got a moment in, too, so it's not a complete waste. And I actually thought it was fun to see the Shield just beat the hell out of Kane/NAO. I think it might be setting up an amicable semi-parting (we've accomplished everything we can as a group, we'll always have each other's backs, but let's see what we can do on our own), which I think is so much better than a clichéd breakup we've seen a million times.

So let's see what happens with the principles of each match before we jump to judgment, but even if they botch it all I thought it was a great night last night.

:wtf: The part I've bolded was a HUGE reach IMO. I rewatched the show except for the last two matches right now because raw is on. I admit the Wyatt Cena match was better the second time but no way was the story telling or psychology even close to those matches IMO. It was a good match but that's a reach I'd give Cena vs Wyatt 8/10 at MOST. But it's probably more a high 7 because I'd put the Daniel Bryan matches at 8's the rest range from average to terrible IMO. Austin vs Hart is 10/10 and Taker vs Triple H is up there also. I was disappointed by how slow paced the match was but it worked sort of even though it would have greatly benefitted from a little bit more in the tempo department.

Lesnar vs Taker was the worst match of the night IMO. Not because of Lesnar winning but because I said Cena vs Wyatt was slow paced it's like they took that and slowed it down by 50%. The crowd wasn't really into it which hurt the match and there were really no high spots or even much of a crescendo to the climax. With that being said, the match is better the second time around when you realize that this is the end. The match itself sucked though and was Taker's worst streak match since WM 20 IMO. By the way, worst match of the night INCLUDES the Divas match which I thought wasn't that bad at all and the best divas match at WrestleMania since WM 22.

All in all with my improved rating of the Cena vs Wyatt match. This WM went from bad to solid. I still think saying it's the greatest ever or even top 5 is a reach personally. I didn't enjoy this WM more than any of the ones from 17-24 or 28 for sure and there's a few others I'd probably rank above this one. It's probably bottom of a top 10 or inbetween 10-15 IMO.
 
I left out The Shield vs Kane and NAO, it was okay but really a waste of the Shield. They deserved better. This really makes me that much more annoyed that the Fatal Four Tag title match wasn't a part of the WM card. They could have used it and it would have been better than the Divas match, the Shield vs Kane/NAO. This was a good ppv not great but good. It had its moments. This is why the WWE really loses out with Punk's departure, the main event roster gets a hole without him. He wouldn't save the ppv from mediocrity but his presence there might have helped it.
 
I loved everything about this match.

Same. When HHH hit the Tiger Suplex on Bryan, I was ready to pop out of my seat. That was tied with the WHC match as my favorite of the show. It was a true classic.
 
As far as many people complaining that Lesnar didn't deserve that honor of ending the streak - you may think so and I may think so, but Mark Calloway doesn't. From what I gather he handpicked Lesnar to be the one to end the streak years ago. He made the call.
The one person who has got the right made the decision. That oughta be good enough for us, no matter what else we would rather have seen. Case closed, as far as I am concerned.
 
I have to admit a bias in how high I rank this Mania as so many guys that I am a fan of got such great moments that it really felt like watching a good action movie unfold.

I thought Triple H vs Bryan was comfortably the MOTN, and while I didn't rate Bray vs Cena as highly as some do I did think the psychology in it made for a very good, if a tad disjointed, match. The main event was a car wreck and a very entertaining one.

I think there have been Mania's with better matches but very few that have consistently delivered Mania moment after Mania moment, it was a show jam packed with dramas, wrestling theater at it's best.

I mean look at the moments:

- The handshake between Hogan and Austin, the two biggest stars in WWE history

- The Shield destroying three mainstays of the beloved attitue era like three young Lions mauling 3 over the hill zebras, it was symbolic.

- Cesaro hoisting up Big Show in the bodyslam position and dumping him out had echoes of the classic visual of Hogan slamming Andre.

- Bray countering the 5 knuckle shuffle with the spider stance was eerie as hell.

- Brock vs Taker wasn't very good, Lesnar clearly went at half measures and Taker gutted it out but the tank looked on empty. However the finish and that image of taker lying on the mat with 21-1 on the screen above him will be etched in time alongside the Andre/Hogan stare down as the most iconic moment in WrestleMania history.

- Lastly you had the main event which had several moments, from the crazy Batista Bomb/RKO combo spot through the table, to Bryan taking out Steph and Trips with the dive, to of course the big one, Bryan tapping out Batista and winning the WWE World title!

A top 5 Mania for me.
 

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