Wrestlemania failed on every level from a fans perspective.

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Sedated

Pre-Show Stalwart
Let me start out by saying the crowd was MIC'd horribly for wrestlemania, they appeared to be dead most of the time and even when they were chanting, cheering, or booing it was often impossible to tell which of these things it was. This was probably due to it being out doors but it really didn't do anything for the atmosphere.

Let's go through this match by match...

The shield vs Big Show etc - This had zero reveal, a semi rightfully pissed off big show knocks out Sheamus for no reason and Orton who kinda deserves it. So Big Show is turning heel for the 1,000th time....who cares? The truth of the matter is this match never had a good out to begin with, Orton heel turn? Who cares, what? Was he supposed to join The Shield? The Shield don't need him. The Shield are regressing, they've gone from taken out multiple people to simply having 6 man tag matches on a regular basis with little behind it at this point, WWE needs to pick up the pace with them and this match didn't do much for them but at least it didn't hurt them any.

Ryback VS Henry - Ryback loses. Let me say that again, RYBACK LOSES. How on earth does this make any sense? Ryback has gone from being undefeated, to fighting for the WWE championship, main eventing PPV's to jobbing to Henry in the 2nd match of Wrestlemania. Ryback NEEDED this win and what he got was a loss and a WM moment that was after the fact. The entire way Ryback has been handled ever since pointlessly being hot shot into that match at HIAC has been terrible. They've taken someone who had a lot of momentum and potential and killed. Ryback gets half the reactions he used to get...what a mess, and what was the point of this? To further a feud between Ryback and Henry? This is NOT where Ryback should've been right now.

Team Hell No vs Dolph and Big E - The booking of Kane/DB is generally fine, and as much as I love both men they need to either have an actual story with them or break them up already. Now I was happy that Hell No won, I simply don't like Ziggler yet, maybe something will change but as of now I think he's been over rated by the IWC. The only thing I've ever seen him do is sell a monkey flip. With all that being said.. it made no sense to me to have Dolph Ziggler lose more, he has the MITB briefcase and he loses more than he wins, unless WWE have given up on him and plan for cash in to result in defeat. I'd actually be okay with that, but that's highly unlikely and so this match was pointless. AJ lee could have at least done something that seemed like it would further a story.

Both the IC title/US title are off the main show. Antonio Cesaro is great and he's being jobbed on a weekly basis for no reason. THE IC/US CHAMPION SHOULD BE SEMI PROTECTED!! Miz winning the IC title is a fart in the wind, who gives a crap?

Fandango VS Jericho - I actually don't have too much of a problem with this match. I have a problem with Fandango though, his gimic is old hat, crap like this has been done way too much and the entire roster is getting a little too metrosexual. The match was okay, the finish was sloppy though and they likely wanted to set up a feud between these two. All in all from a storyline/progression perspective this is probably the best match of the night (yikes!)

Swagger vs Alberto Deli Rio - No ziggler cash in especially after ziggler loses the tag team championship match was questionable. I already said I'm not a ziggler fan but Swagger attacking Del Rio after the match and then Ziggler cashing in would have been memorable. Also if WWE is that worried about ADR getting over having him chase the championship isn't a bad idea (He seems plenty over to me though for the most part?) all in all this left me disappointed but nothing terrible happened like most the other matches.

CM Punk vs Undertaker - It was exactly what I expected, a very good match though not quite as good as the matches Undertaker had with HBK/HHH but that was to be expected with Undertaker getting older and wrestling less and less. Here's what I have a problem with though: CM Punk's booking has been terrible. Should he have beat Undertaker? No. He had a 400 day title reign but who did he beat clean? He's been jobbed to Cena multiple times, Rock (2x), and now Undertaker.. I'm not a CM Punk mark like a lot of you, I like him but he's not the 2nd coming of Christ or anything. He's been booked weak for a LONG time and this match didn't do a whole lot to change that perception for me, I never once believed Undertaker was in any danger. I think if you did believe at any point Punk might win that was probably just the CM Punk mark in you.

HHH vs Lesnar - Now I've had zero problem with both the actual matches these two have had, I thought they were both entertaining enough. Brock's match vs Cena was better than both (not counting the ending) but Brock did ALL of the offense which is why it was so entertaining. Lesnar is used horribly, his loss to Cena was terrible, his win vs HHH was a little pointless but okay and his loss to HHH was beyond pointless. There was ZERO reason for Lesnar to lose this match except to feed HHH's ego. They pay him for so many appearances and then they have him come out for 3 minutes and not even speak usually? The whole thing has been horrible. Lesnar could have fought a properly built Ryback at WM30 and it be huge, he could have fought Undertaker at WM30 and it be huge, he could have fought Cena for the title and it could have been huge. Now? What is there Lesnar can do that actually seems huge after losing 2 our of 3 matches? Nothing that I can think of.

Oh yea, what the fuck was the point of all the stipulation talk? Their first match was also now DQ so why was it supposed to be a big deal this time? HHH's non existent career was on the line? Who cares? HBK was at ringside? Ummm why? His being there did nothing. All in all this whole thing was a giant mess.

The Rock vs Cena - This match was nothing but a finisher fest... with that being said I thought it worked, of all the matches The Rock has had since coming back I thought this was actually his best. I thought his first three were pretty terrible. With that being said... Cena NEEDED to turn heel.

Now there's word that The Rock is no showing WWE Raw. The Rock just "confirmed" he tore a muscle. I'm not buying it. This reminds me of what Austin used to do when he was so pissed off with the creative and the product he would just say fuck it and leave and claim it's an injury.

I never blamed Austin for it and I don't blame The Rock for it. The Rock is a little more to blame because he came back for this, he should have known better. They tried to make this like Hogan/Rock but it wasn't, Hogan was still over but so was The Rock. Cena? He's not over. Maybe The Rock thought he could get Cena over? He couldn't though, nobody can. The only way this would have worked is if Cena turned heel on Rock to win the title, it's not about crying for a Cena heel turn as it's about that's the only thing that would have had a desired effect and for as much as Cena wants to pretend to be that company guy? He's not or he would have done it.

The verbal back and forth between the two as pointed out by many others felt strange to me. Go watch Hogan/Rock after the match The Rock is very happy, go watch the last Austin/Rock match when they had their little moment, go watch after The Rock lost to Goldberg and talked to the crowd. At times like these The Rock usually becomes himself...but The Rock just still look pissed off, I questioned if The Rock was actually pissed or just trying to stay in character...but The Rock staying it character so much at a time like this seemed out of character..he was forcing it.

How would you feel if you came back to try to get the product and a current wrestler over and this was the result? The build up for all of these matches with the exception of Rock vs Cena 1 was garbage, you don't think The Rock knows it? You don't think The Rock now realizes that the product is in the exact same place it was before he came back? No better and if anything a little worse? They wanted to build a feud between Lesnar and Rock? You don't think The Rock is starting to see how pointless a match like this is?

This isn't The Rocks fault really, what was he supposed to do? Come back and job to everyone? Job to an up and comer? That would never work. The Rock needs to job to someone big.. but who was there? It was either CM Punk or Cena and CM Punk was never booked for it so it HAD to be Cena and now The Rock doesn't like the outcome... it just didn't work.

WWE have done this time and time again chasing away people like The Rock and Steve Austin. The people who really understand the business and what should and shouldn't be done? They get so fed up that they fake injuries. Vince HATES it. He HATES that Austin understands the business better than him, he HATES that The Rock made it even bigger with out the WWE behind him, he hates all that shit.

The Rock came back in the perfect manner, but the opponents weren't there and the storylines weren't there to welcome him. THE ROCK JUST LOST AT WRESTLEMANIA.... someone should be HUGELY over from this now but they're not... how does that seem right to you? After Hogan vs The Rock both men were cheered, after Austin vs Rock both men were cheered, after The Rock jobs to Cena both men were booed. Just imagine what would run through your head if you were The Rock at the moment.

There is zero getting Cena over, it's impossible, all he can do is drag you down with him.
 
Cena not over?

Lol

How the hell is Cena over? He sells T-shirts to little kids? He gets a reaction? He gets a negative reaction as a face, that's not over, that's legit people don't want to see you on their television. Is he over because ratings have gone down steadily over the 10 years he's been relevant? This situation with Cena has been out of hand for years and now it's to the point of lunacy.


He managed to get The Rock booed at Wrestlemania, he's like the touch of death.

The crowd went ape shit when Brock returned and hit the F-5 on cena and now Brock is just another wrestler after getting jobbed to Cena.

CM Punk was riding a high wave until they turned him heel and he's been booked like garbage ever since because they couldn't have a face CM Punk feud with a "face" Cena.

Cena makes people look like garbage, name one person who Cena has helped get over. Wrestlers manage to get over in spite of Cena, never because. Was it when he lost a fricking ladder match to Ziggler and then had to bury Ziggler for like 2 weeks in a row? He's the touch of fucking death.

A feud with Cena for anyone not already a star almost promises you a trip to Smackdown so you can try to rebuild your self and hopefully win a WHC and that's if you're lucky. Happened to Edge, Khali, Angle ended up going to TNA shortly after his feud with Cena, happened to Orton, Sheamus, Wade Barret, hell the entire nexus faction angle, Batista left after his last feud with Cena, Umaga was built up pretty big and then had his feud with Cena and it was all down hill from there, The Miz has been stuck in the midcard ever since dropping the belt to Cena, RVD after he dropped the WWE title to Cena, I'm sure there's many more. Who has had a feud with cena and came out of it more over than before as a result? You know why Cena can't get anyone over? BECAUSE HE'S NOT OVER.

Who has managed to survive a feud with Cena and not come out of it any worse than before? HHH, HBK, Kane.....That's all I can think of.

Not only is he not over but HE'S THE TOUCH OF FUCKING CAREER DEATH. Yeah yeah, I know, these weren't all his fault and I'm sure they weren't but it sure shows a pattern.

He's a poison at this point. The only thing he hasn't managed to kill that's up and coming from having interaction with them is The Shield.
 
Or is it that all of those names you mentioned, with the exception of the Rock, are elevated to face Cena only to find out in the course of their feud that they are simply not on his level?

There is only one thing above Cena in the wrestling world right now and that is beating the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.
 
Барбоса;4413403 said:
Or is it that all of those names you mentioned, with the exception of the Rock, are elevated to face Cena only to find out in the course of their feud that they are simply not on his level?

There is only one thing above Cena in the wrestling world right now and that is beating the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

What drugs are you people on? I'd like some please.

Let's look at the people that Austin feuded with and what they went on to do:

The Rock, Mick Foley, Undertaker, Kane, HHH, Kurt Angle, HBK, Chris Jericho, Big Show, Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon, and more.

Of those names you could make a strong case that The Rock, HHH, Jericho, Kane, Kurt Angle, and even Vince McMahon/Shane would not have gotten where they did character wise with out Austin.

Hell even HHH helped build Batista, that's one more wrestler than Cena has.

Even HOGAN helped build more stars than Cena has.

So once again, who has Cena helped build? He can't build anyone because his ego wont allow it and he's not over. Losing to Austin or Undertaker in an amazing match means something, losing to Cena gets you fired or shipped to smackdown. Austin was built on a loss to Hart, who has Cena built by beating? Who has Cena built by losing? Oh that's right nobody.
 
Edit: LOL at you editing to change the goal posts, yet this still stands:

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Turn the table around who has Punk/Orton/Edge helped build? :)

Cena-bashing is ridiculous when his peers are doing such a piss poor job compared to him.
 
I think it's a law in some places that if someone gets over today they did it by themselves and despite WWE's best efforts to make them financial diarrhea. If someone got over in the AE it was because other guys work their asses off to put that person over.

It's the law, you can't argue with the law.
 
Sheamus? Orton? Edge? Erm...Punk?

What? All of them had to be shipped to Smackdown after their Cena feuds except CM Punk who had one of the worst booked championship reigns I can recall thanks to Cena. If any of them are over (None of them are except Punk and Edge is retired) It's once again in spite of Cena, not because.
 
This thread fails on every level from the logical perspective. But the master stroke was definitely the asinine statement that Cena isn't over, and then used Edge as proof of this statement.

I literally laughed out loud at the stupidity.
 
Turn the table around who has Punk/Orton/Edge helped build? :)

Cena-bashing is ridiculous when his peers are doing such a piss poor job compared to him.

Orton hasn't helped build anyone, he can't because he's never been that over, just like Cena.

Edge helped build Cena and The Hardy's at the least.

CM Punk hasn't helped build anyone that I can recall, he's also not an 11 time champion though nor has he been around for nearly as long as Cena, Orton, or Edge.
 
This thread fails on every level from the logical perspective. But the master stroke was definitely the asinine statement that Cena isn't over, and then used Edge as proof of this statement.

I literally laughed out loud at the stupidity.

So Cena (The guy who was there a couple years) helped Edge (The guy who was there for many years) get over by beating him and having him shipped to Smackdown? Tell me more.
 
What? All of them had to be shipped to Smackdown after their Cena feuds except CM Punk who had one of the worst booked championship reigns I can recall thanks to Cena. If any of them are over (None of them are except Punk and Edge is retired) It's once again in spite of Cena, not because.

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So is this another "I'm going to say a bunch of random shit to randomly disguise my Cena bashing" thread?

Oh and by the way... Austin did not help make all those people.

Angle was helped by Stephanie, HHH, and The Rock
Jericho was helped by Stephanie, HHH, The Rock, and HBK.
Kane was helped by Undertaker.
Mick Foley was helped by The Rock, Undertaker, and HHH.
HHH was helped by The Rock and Mick Foley.

Yes, Austin was a part of creating two great feuds with Vince and The Rock, but let's not go crazy with how many other guys he's helped.
 
So Cena (The guy who was there a couple years) helped Edge (The guy who was there for many years) get over by beating him and having him shipped to Smackdown? Tell me more.

Edge's "Ultimate Opportunist" shtick which he relied on from his first WWE title run to his retirement exists because of Cena. The gimmick was created, defined and memorable because of Cena.

Longevity isn't relevant in this case.
 
What? All of them had to be shipped to Smackdown after their Cena feuds except CM Punk who had one of the worst booked championship reigns I can recall thanks to Cena. If any of them are over (None of them are except Punk and Edge is retired) It's once again in spite of Cena, not because.

Cena elevated all of them so they could moved on to the next level. Sheamus got to be a big dog in the mid card after Cena. Edge got to carry his own show because of his feud with Cena. Orton...well he got to beat Cena and HHH to cement his spot as one of the top dogs.

Punk used Cena as a foil to get over the most. Don't even need to get into details with that.

The only shmuck that I see Cena failing with was Miz but he is the Miz. At least he is the face of slimjim ads now that Edge is retired.
 
So is this another "I'm going to say a bunch of random shit to randomly disguise my Cena bashing" thread?

Oh and by the way... Austin did not help make all those people.

Angle was helped by Stephanie, HHH, and The Rock
Jericho was helped by Stephanie, HHH, The Rock, and HBK.
Kane was helped by Undertaker.
Mick Foley was helped by The Rock, Undertaker, and HHH.
HHH was helped by The Rock and Mick Foley.

Yes, Austin was a part of creating two great feuds with Vince and The Rock, but let's not go crazy with how many other guys he's helped.

HHH wasn't helped by winning the 3 stages of hell match with Austin? Probably the best match HHH has had in his entire career? Or by being the in two man power trip?

Jericho wasn't helped by beating BOTH Austin and Rock to win the Undisputed championship?

Kane wasn't helped by beating Austin for the WWF championship? Hell for years the only time Kane did anything worth a shit was if it involved Taker or Austin, even when Austin was playing the GM role he was still trying to get Kane over.

Angle wasn't helped by the Alliance angles or by winning the title from Austin?

Come on now, I never said Austin was the only one who helped but he played a fairly big part in all of these peoples careers. The Rock, Undertaker and many more also helped build a lot of people.
 
Edge's "Ultimate Opportunist" shtick which he relied on from his first WWE title run to his retirement exists because of Cena. The gimmick was created, defined and memorable because of Cena.

Longevity isn't relevant in this case.

That wasn't because of Cena. It existed because they thought up the MITB match and that's how Edge was winning belts.
 
So Cena (The guy who was there a couple years) helped Edge (The guy who was there for many years) get over by beating him and having him shipped to Smackdown? Tell me more.
Uhh, you do realize how false your statement is, correct? Why don't we just change the thread title to "Dishonest moron bitches about Cena"? It would be a more apt description.

Edge was a career midcarder who had been given several main-event pushes, all failures. It wasn't until Edge's feud with Cena, which began in January at New Year's Revolution and started up again around July and ran through November, before Edge was ever seen as a main-eventer. Cena made Edge.

Cena has put PLENTY of people over, to argue otherwise shows a completely inability to understand what pro wrestling is about. For goodness sake, Wade Barrett was an inexperienced rookie with no history in the business, and Cena made people think he was of main-event caliber. That's how good Cena is. He can make a guy who is a nobody, a guy with very little experience, and make that guy someone people think is a legitimate main-event threat.

Your criticism is beyond ridiculous. Wrestlemania was very solid, Cena is the best wrestler in the world and you're a moron.
 
Cena elevated all of them so they could moved on to the next level. Sheamus got to be a big dog in the mid card after Cena. Edge got to carry his own show because of his feud with Cena. Orton...well he got to beat Cena and HHH to cement his spot as one of the top dogs.

Punk used Cena as a foil to get over the most. Don't even need to get into details with that.

The only shmuck that I see Cena failing with was Miz but he is the Miz. At least he is the face of slimjim ads now that Edge is retired.

Orton was about as over as he'd ever be by time him and Cena were wrestling each other. The legend killer gimic and punting people in the head were what got Orton going, nothing to do with Cena and certainly not thanks to HHH. They fed Orton to HHH so they could set up Batista vs HHH and build Batista.

Sheamus was hot shotted to a accidental title win (They made it look like Cena tripped and fell through a table) so he could ultimately be fed to Cena and Orton and then derped around doing nothing of interest until finally making some waves on smackdown.

Again, I don't know how you can say the rookie (Cena) helped the veteran (Edge) get over. This is almost like saying Cena got Angle over.

What really got Edge over was banging Lita and screwing over Hardy, not Cena.
 
Uhh, you do realize how false your statement is, correct? Why don't we just change the thread title to "Dishonest moron bitches about Cena"? It would be a more apt description.

Edge was a career midcarder who had been given several main-event pushes, all failures. It wasn't until Edge's feud with Cena, which began in January at New Year's Revolution and started up again around July and ran through November, before Edge was ever seen as a main-eventer. Cena made Edge.

Cena has put PLENTY of people over, to argue otherwise shows a completely inability to understand what pro wrestling is about. For goodness sake, Wade Barrett was an inexperienced rookie with no history in the business, and Cena made people think he was of main-event caliber. That's how good Cena is. He can make a guy who is a nobody, a guy with very little experience, and make that guy someone people think is a legitimate main-event threat.

Your criticism is beyond ridiculous. Wrestlemania was very solid, Cena is the best wrestler in the world and you're a moron.

:lol: Yeah, Cena did great work burying the entire Nexus angle, that worked out real well for wade barret who went on to do absolutely nothing of interest as a result. Yet another case of someone getting hot shot to feud with Cena and zero coming of it as a result.

and banging Lita is what got Edge over as a super villian. Lita's vagina and a scorned Matt Hardy did waaaaaayyyy more for Edge than Cena ever did.

Please toss around some more grade school insults though.
 
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