Will Oscar Pistorius's Case Affect How Chris Benoit Is Percieved?

[THTRobtaylor]

Hi all, don't start many threads but the shocking news today of Paralympic and Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorious being arrested for the shooting of his girlfriend has made me think a lot about Chris Benoit.

First off it is important to note that no one has been found guilty of anything yet, although the early signs do not look good for the man known as "The Blade Runner". At first the stories were that it may have been a "Valentines Surprise" gone horribly wrong, but now reports are that neighbours heard arguing and there had been previous domestic incidents reported.

At worst case, Oscar Pistorious could be charged with the murder, and it is a very real possibility he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Parallel this with 2007 - Chris Benoit and his family were found dead, within 24 hours Chris was named the culprit, although unfortunately for Vince he had already run his tribute. Both men were considered inspirational for overcoming barriers to become successes in their chosen fields and are considered by those who know them as "model people", yet both appear to have committed horrible acts of violence against a woman out of the blue.

In Benoit's case, the shock and horror were made worse by the death of his son, apparently at his father's hands, and Benoit has been crucified by the media, wrestling fans and society at large for this, despite there never being an arrest, a conviction or even much more than circumstantial evidence that he had actually killed them. It fit into a nice box and very quickly was "solved", as a "roid rage" murder as Benoit was a "roided up freak wrestler" it was only when men like Chris Nowinski tried to delve deeper that the likely truth appeared, that Benoit had suffered severe concussion trauma as a result of his sport.

Again, first point that may pop into your head in the Pistorious case, "roid rage",after all, he was an exceptional Paralympian who raced in the real Olympics against able bodied athletes. He would have to be exceptional to achieve that, but cynics will no doubt say he was gassing. I saw him run in London and he was not gassing from what I saw, just an amazing athlete.

Pistorious was known for Target Shooting and South Africa has a higher per capita head (100,000) gun murder rate than the US. This morning one of my work colleauges from South Africa said how she would have a gun next to her bed and a knife under her pillow and that if anyone came into their house at 4am, they would shoot first and ask questions later.

My question is this? If it is found by a jury Pistorious did murder his girlfriend, not accidentally shoot her, will his crime be found worse than Benoit's (which was never conclusively proven). Will it open up people's minds that it is not just Wrestling, but this can happen to anyone in a pressure situation, of which sports is one of the most pressured, and if so... will people finally accept that if an inspirational, physically disabled but sane sprinter can shoot his girlfriend dead, that Chris Benoit, who with his brain damage was not the man who wrestled for us or loved by his friends could be in a HOF as the man he was before that damage?

After all Oscar Pistorious will always be the disabled man who raced in the London Olympics... Can we ever, now look at Benoit as a victim too rather than a murderer?

Controversial Topic, let's keep it friendly, no flaming and remember, Pistorious is innocent till proven guilty!

 

[Dirk]

Okay, Rob, I'll bite.

I'm from SA and it's HUGE news here. Didn't even think it'd make a ripple over in the States...

Old Pissie isn't as saintly as the rest of the world might see him. There were more than a few domestic violence rumours and many confirmed domestic disturbance cases. He is also a reputable poonhound, having numerous affairs.

All the whole Benoit experience taught me, was not to have boyhood heroes or rolemodels. Simple as that. Everybody is fallible and everybody screws up. Some bigger than others...

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Did you know Kevin Sullivan was a Satanist?

No matter how this case turns out Chris Benoit will still be a dead double murderer. This kind of stuff happens too much by both those that are determined to be mentally healthy and unhealthy. The fact that both guys are pseudo-athletes makes no difference. Pistorious is far more famous globally due to his condition and sport. Benoit worked in a niche industry and wasn't even that big of a name within that industry. Some writer may try to draw parallels but then will kick themselves when no one cares to read what they wrote and will end up wishing that they would have made the comparison to OJ in their article.

There is little connection here.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I'm in the UK, so as he ran here just 6 months ago it's massive news.
I am sure there is more to him than we've seen, as with anyone there will be a private persona that might be different to what is in the public domain, just as there clearly was a problem with Benoit that no-one saw, even those closest to him.

I guess my thing here is that if the man is found guilty of murder, his crime is inherently worse than the one Benoit committed, as had Benoit survived it would have been likely he would have had "diminished responsibility" and his diaries etc. would have backed that up. Pistorous would not get that defense from what has come out so far.

The link between the two is how a fallen hero is percieved after this stuff happens. Benoit to many is a persona non grata, but it can be demonstrated that his crime had at lot to do with the condition they found later rather than any premeditation. If it was found that OP did shoot this woman in cold blood, do they remove him from the Olympic story the way WWE has Benoit?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm in the UK, so as he ran here just 6 months ago it's massive news.

When it comes to the UK media I would expect that it is massive news because it gives your media a chance to flash pictures of a hot chick and make puns about a guy with no legs.

I am sure there is more to him than we've seen, as with anyone there will be a private persona that might be different to what is in the public domain, just as there clearly was a problem with Benoit that no-one saw, even those closest to him.

There is more to all of us whether we are murderers or not. What's your point?

I guess my thing here is that if the man is found guilty of murder, his crime is inherently worse than the one Benoit committed, as had Benoit survived it would have been likely he would have had "diminished responsibility" and his diaries etc. would have backed that up. Pistorous would not get that defense from what has come out so far.

If this makes you feel better then all the power to you. To me they are both murderers and belong in prison or dead. Nothing about their status, health or country of origin justifies the crime they committed. If you made me pick I would say Benoit is worse because he killed a kid but in the end they are still both murderers.

The link between the two is how a fallen hero is percieved after this stuff happens. Benoit to many is a persona non grata, but it can be demonstrated that his crime had at lot to do with the condition they found later rather than any premeditation. If it was found that OP did shoot this woman in cold blood, do they remove him from the Olympic story the way WWE has Benoit?

So Benoit was so disabled he could not distinguish between murdering someone and not murdering someone but he could still go in the ring like a technical savant? Stop it, you are just coming off like a delusional mark.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

During the Olympics, this guy got loads of press coverage in the states. If it wasn't for the fact that this guy was a sprinter without flesh & blood legs, nobody would've paid any attention. I doubt that the alleged murder of his girlfriend would have gotten nearly as much coverage as it has here in the states if it wasn't for the fact that he competed in the Olympics with no legs.

I see no comparison between Benoit and Pistorius. Two different men in two completely different genres. Benoit killing his wife & son before taking his own life had as much to do with the fact that the guy had severe brain damage, which wasn't helped by the fact that he was on steroids at the time. Pistorius, to my knowledge, is accused of straight up cold blooded murder by the courts, if I'm not mistaken. We also have no doubt that Benoit actually did those things and Pistorius hasn't been convicted in a court of law.

I don't know how the SA laws differ from those here in the states but, in the states, being indicted & charged for a crime is fairly meaningless. Depending upon where you live in the country, there are prosecutors who could and would, on a whim, indict a ham sandwich for contributing to someone's death via heart attack. Filing charges in the states before a case is even really made is part of the reasons the courts are more backed up than the toilets on that cruise ship that's been all over the news for the past week.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

When it comes to the UK media I would expect that it is massive news because it gives your media a chance to flash pictures of a hot chick and make puns about a guy with no legs.



There is more to all of us whether we are murderers or not. What's your point?



If this makes you feel better then all the power to you. To me they are both murderers and belong in prison or dead. Nothing about their status, health or country of origin justifies the crime they committed. If you made me pick I would say Benoit is worse because he killed a kid but in the end they are still both murderers.



So Benoit was so disabled he could not distinguish between murdering someone and not murdering someone but he could still go in the ring like a technical savant? Stop it, you are just coming off like a delusional mark.

Your latter point exactly sums up the whole issue. Benoit was disabled, but he didn't KNOW he was disabled. He had likely spent a lot of time knowing something was wrong but hiding it, bottling it up so much that it became 2nd nature as wrestlers do so eventually they "forget about it"- as long as he could wrestle he was ok and he could be "Chris Benoit - Legendary Wrestler" that much was 2nd nature to him and he would have been in control as it was "autopilot".

It was clearly being Chris Benoit - Regular Person, away from that routine and control that he was having problems with and though he was able to hold it together under increasingly bad circumstances at home it was when he got home from his doctor that weekend, then it unravelled for him.

We will never know what made him snap but a sane person does not leave the mother's body on the floor, spend a day playing with his son and then kill him, put bibles around and then kill himself. A sane person, even if they "go too far" and kill their wife - calls the police and the ambulance and a lawyer.

I am not sure why looking into this makes me a "mark", I am someone with a brain injury myself and it does affect personality, mood and decision making and it is interesting as this is the worst case since Benoit of a famous sportsman with an actual legacy committing a crime. It is not enough to simply say "he killed a kid" to separate or make it worse.

I have never disputed the heinous nature of the crimes nor am I an apologist for him but it is a fact that had Benoit lived and it went down as the police said he would have not faced a trial in the same way Pistorious now does. He'd have been sent to a hospital for the rest of his life. They'd have seen his diaries and realized he was crazy and as wrestling would have been gone for him at that point, it is likely his sanity would have been totally destroyed.

There is hypocrisy in how WWE has treated Benoit since, as they still regularly make reference to Jimmy Snuka, the Hall Of Famer who has an outstanding civil decision that he killed his girlfriend in 83 (same as OJ does), a judge has said he did it and had to pay half a mil, but the police could never convict in a criminal trial and as far as I know he never paid up either.

As for the UK media, normally I'd be with you, but they have actually been very respectful in this one, likely due to it still being so close to London 2012.

 

[MCMG]

I don't know how act to either of their cases. I was a big fan of Benoit's so I will always believe it was the drugs and brain damage that screwed him up and he was therefore not in control of his actions. I believe Pistorious was actually trying to shoot an intruder.

Until we know the outcome of the Pistorious case it is difficult to know. To be honest, Pistorious is a much bigger case. He was the face of the Para-Olympics. Here in the UK he was god. Idol to millions around the world. It is truly shocking and upsetting to see this happen. It won't change the opinions of Benoit and the WWE. It could be argued that the WWE/ECW/WCW caused the damage to Benoit and were responsible for the death of his children and wife. No-one except Pistorious was involved in this tragedy.

Also, the UK media is shocking. From serious issues to sport it is truly abysmal and embarrassing. Only thing they do well is entertainment when its stuff about One Direction.

 

[Spinebreaker]

When it comes to the UK media I would expect that it is massive news because it gives your media a chance to flash pictures of a hot chick and make puns about a guy with no legs.

Bang on. Pictures of her alongside people saying in court he 'won't have a leg to stand on'. Good call. I can only assume the US media is saying she'd still be alive now had she been armed with a selection of handguns herself.

It's a tricky one. Benoit was a great wrestler, Pistorious was a great athlete... Their actions don't change that. Our opinions of them can be changed by it however.

 

[The Butcher]

After today's round of testimony, it seems to me that Pistorious' version of events is the likely scenario. If this was indeed an accident as Pistorious claims, then comparisons to Benoit will be null. Either way, this is just a bail hearing. The proper trial is still far off. Too much to be sorted through before I even begin to think to put the Blade Runner in the same category as the Rabid Wolverine.

As for perception, the similarities in the cases aren't similar enough for anything that comes out of the Pistorious case to reflect better on Benoit. Personally, I think Chris Benoit is a monster, and I'll think the same of Oscar Pistorious if it turns out he did indeed premeditate and execute his girlfriend. Their careers are what they are, and I give anyone with that work ethic, dedication, and level of accomplishment credit, but life is bigger than sports and TV shows. A talented monster is still a monster.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I was confused at first when I read the title, but I now see where the connection was trying to be made, I just don't think that connection exists.

The WWE had come under a lot of heat for steroids and when it turned out that Benoit was a 'roider they basically had to do massive damage control. What he did doesn't take away from the talent that he was, but I don't think they had any other choice. He committed a heinous crime that had people in D.C. calling for the end of the WWE. The WWE ran the tribute show before the facts came out, and I'm sure had they known beforehand they would have never ran the show like they did for Eddie and Owen. Plus it is very easy to erase accomplishments in the scripted world of pro wrestling.

Pistorius obviously isn't the first Olympic athlete to come into controversy, but it isn't like the Olympics come under a lot of fire for having alleged murderers in their competitions. Before this all happened all most of us here in the States knew of him was he was the Blade Runner, and nearly everyone wanted him to be able to run. Now we know of the domestic issues and things, but I think it was who ESPN ran a poll that was almost 60/40 that he was believed to be innocent. Details are still emerging, but if he is found guilty I highly doubt the Olympic Committee will erase him from their history.

If it turns out that Pistorius is guilty then he deserves to be punished, but like I said I really doubt they erase him from their record books like WWE did Benoit.

 

[braveh]

You people will come up with any reason to excuse the child murderer just because you liked what he did inside a wrestling ring.

He didn't know what he was doing? He didn't choose to abuse steroids for many years around his family? He didn't choose to mix alcohol, pain killers, drugs and steroids around his family?

People with Alzeihmers don't commit serial murders. They run back and forth worrying about their house keys and stuff like that.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

You people will come up with any reason to excuse the child murderer just because you liked what he did inside a wrestling ring.

He didn't know what he was doing? He didn't choose to abuse steroids for many years around his family? He didn't choose to mix alcohol, pain killers, drugs and steroids around his family?

People with Alzeihmers don't commit serial murders. They run back and forth worrying about their house keys and stuff like that.

Actually, Verne Gagne, one of the most famous wrestlers in the history of the business killed his roommate in the Old Folks home where he was treated for Alzheimers by "shooting" on him. No one blamed Gagne at all, it was an old man with little of his mind left who reverted to the one thing he knew how to do his whole life in a split second.

It is very wrong and dismissive to say Benoit is being excused for his illness, I certainly don't, but there you cannot discount that so many people who knew him were so adamant that "it was not the person they knew". They don't excuse him either...none of the said "he didn't do it..." but they all now acknowledge that mental illness, brain injury, dementia all rob the person of many things, their judgement, their personalities and sometimes tragically in this case their humanity.

Benoit killed a child, that is a tragedy and a sad moment, but there is no way you can relate the man in the ring to the man who ended his sons life 24 hours after ending his wife's life, even if accidentally, to wrestle to the level he did for so long required an immense amount of control. In the ring or backstage or even on the road, the routine was so ingrained that he was in control. So many people with these type of health issues get "lost" the moment their routine is broken or something snaps and in Benoit's case it may have been Nancy's death. I maintain, a sane person does not leave her dead on the floor and go fishing with the boy, only to kill him later. Gagne was also a highly respected man who killed someone... yet he is not reviled the same way as Benoit... worse to kill your wife and kid than an 80s+ man? Was Verne removed from the WWE HOF? No... they are similar tragedies, but one man is demonised and another forgotten... and that is very sad.

The Pistorious case has become more curious over recent weeks with news his brother is also facing a similar "charge" relating to a motoring incident, but to our knowledge and so far OP has not cited any medical reason as to why he shot through that door - he had his mind intact and made that decision in the moment. Time will tell if a judge believes him or the police. Benoit clearly did not have his mind to the level he had it at work on that weekend, Gagne clearly did not when he attacked his friend so it's a little harsh to erase a career in those circumstances - don't "celebrate how it ended it" but acknowledge the good and move on rather than hating "cos he killed a kid", if you do then you have to hate EVERYONE who has done something of that nature with all their marbles, so that's Snuka, Hall to name just 2.

 

[One to Remember]

The OP has made horrible comparisons. Benoit is akin to some of these NFL athletes that have killed themselves in the last 2 years and Pistorious might be comparable to O.J. Simpson..

The Benoit situation is confusing because those seeking to do fast damage control or to deflect early on went with the roid rage scenario. You chose to take steroids so that doesn't really shift responsibility. The scientists and doctors studying the damage to Benoit's brain are always ignored or overshadowed because we all accepted early on the fight would be over roid rage and the level of culpability with a voluntary drug that WWE prohibited anyways..

Benoit's counterpart in sports is Verne Gagne who not only killed a man nearly a hundred but had to use a wrestling move in lieu of a weapon or punches. Benoit's social situation is compounded by his son's age. If it was just his wife who i think was older then him some of the people with a simplistic no kill period stance would back off. Verne Gagne is facing no criminal charges. Benoit might also be compared to rogue veterans who have killed cops or domestic partners after suffering head injuries in Afghanistan and/or Iraq..


Pistorious is comparable to Snuka except his situation is compounded by the fact it could had been an accident and the fact that South Africa is so violent quick shots have to be made.. Their country's courts have a low conviction rate and he might win just because he is a celebrity, and there might be enough doubt or plausibility to his story to avoid him getting the OJ treatment socially. The burden in civil court is far lowr then criminal court so people are less likely to pass judgement based on a loss there. People who are guilty have used a criminal's courts lack of conviction or charges to bolster their own stance.