Exactly. Benoit's fans need to understand that the man did far more harm to the business than he did good for it, no matter how many great matches he had. He is one of the most infamous names in the history of professional wrestling for the wrong reasons, and basically his entire existence is a black mark on the industry. I know that's hard for some people to take, but it's the truth. The dude brought more negative media attention to WWE than anything else ever, and is a big reason why WWE programming is now rated PG. The negative impact he had should not be understated here.
5 Years Later: Will Vince McMahon Conceed & Mention/Show Chris Benoit on TV Again
- Thread starter Midnite Express 2009
- Start date
WRESTLING_GENIUS
Pre-Show Stalwart
First time ive ever chimed on the subject since it happened, IMHO, Chris Benoit as far as his World Championship win at WMXX, His loss to Orton at SummerSlam(as this takes away from Orton shine, you mean we can never see Randy Orton's First World Championship win because the guy he beat did something so haneous he cant be named on WWE TV again, byfar stupid to me), and his Royal Rumble Victory at 2004 only because for the simple fact thats an accomplishment you cant ignore seeing the event is held every year and you cant just delete a year of the actual event out of history, maybe put him in MITB, and Ladder Match DVD's but other than those three important thing s in the history of The WWE, he should never been mentioned on WWE TV ever, no Hall of Fame, no mention in video packages, nothing, othere than the three things and maybe the fourth and fifth i mentioned....
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Fair enough. I was watching that Randy Orton DVD the other day and I couldn't help but feel that them not acknowledging Orton beating Benoit for his first World Title reign was kind of a big blank spot.
However, I really doubt that a few minor edits in DVDs are really worth the potential backlash that could come from the media. You know how fucking obnoxious these news networks are. If the WWE starts featuring him in this sort of stuff again, then they'll surely start accusing them as trying to profit off of his name or whatever, thus bringing more bad publicity. Not a good idea.
This is just a silly question. Despite a few die hard Benoit marks, a lot of people still find it hard to look at the man as anything but a cold blooded killer. Why should the WWE celebrate a man's career while friends and family members are still out there watching the product. Benoit's name should never be mentioned again.
akbigbadwolf
Dark Match Jobber
I agree with those who don't get why wwe and many others have no intrest in seeing Beniot ever mentioned again or siome how keep justifying what they are saying with he was an amazing superstar and performer. WHO GIVES A FUCK. He Murdered his SEVEN year old son by chokeing him to death thats not rage do you have any idea how much effort it takes to strangle another human being to death? Far as I am concerened He can rot in hell and Vince should dump the library in the middle of the ring and let everyone piss on it.
slice_of_life
Pre-Show Stalwart
Once again, I think everybody needs to ease off of Benoit. What he did was unforgivable, but there were extenuating circumstances in the situation. I don't view Benoit as a monster and am upset when people say they do. This just brings to light how serious of an issue mental illness is.
I am a Benoit mark, but I don't think he should be mentioned just because it's irrelevant and those who argue the business aspect are right--though it's funny, Benoit didn't kill the business, McMahon is currently slaying the business on his own with last minute booking and handing a lot of creative control over to his egotistic son in law.
I am a Benoit mark, but I don't think he should be mentioned just because it's irrelevant and those who argue the business aspect are right--though it's funny, Benoit didn't kill the business, McMahon is currently slaying the business on his own with last minute booking and handing a lot of creative control over to his egotistic son in law.
Teddy Irving
Pre-Show Stalwart
My earlier posts may have made me look like a Benoit mark but I am not one at all I don't think he should be mentioned on TV because if people look him up on the internet via google, I would imagine the first thing that will come up is Chris Benoit murders family. This will be what people learn about Benoit they may follow up and learn about his wrestling accomplishments but one thing he will be remembered for.. The murders of his wife and son.
When I seen that they didn't show his name as a royal rumble winner or listed as champion originally it didn't really make a huge difference. Mentioning him for his best bits would be insensitive and would likely cause distress for Nancy's family so it is better to leave him off television.
My earlier responses were to the question that was asked and it took an objective point of view as to the reasons (most likely, as I don't know Vince's mind) why he wasn't mentioned and if he would ever be mentioned again.
A HoF is out of the question it will never happen, Benoit's legacy is tarnished and gone.
Also I am not sure if many have read Chris Jericho's two books but those who have did they notice a bit of a difference between how Jericho portrayed Benoit in the two? It was as if as time went by and he actually gained perspective he lost a lot of the respect he had had for Benoit. Just an interesting side note.
When I seen that they didn't show his name as a royal rumble winner or listed as champion originally it didn't really make a huge difference. Mentioning him for his best bits would be insensitive and would likely cause distress for Nancy's family so it is better to leave him off television.
My earlier responses were to the question that was asked and it took an objective point of view as to the reasons (most likely, as I don't know Vince's mind) why he wasn't mentioned and if he would ever be mentioned again.
A HoF is out of the question it will never happen, Benoit's legacy is tarnished and gone.
Also I am not sure if many have read Chris Jericho's two books but those who have did they notice a bit of a difference between how Jericho portrayed Benoit in the two? It was as if as time went by and he actually gained perspective he lost a lot of the respect he had had for Benoit. Just an interesting side note.
The same could be said of any murderer. As for not killing the business, he sure gave it one hell of a black eye. But that's not even what's important. Benoit murdered two people. One of them his own child. I think he deserves about as much sympathy as the woman who drowned her children in the bathtub, or the man who recently blew up himself and his two children when cornered by the police. These people were all sick in the head, and they were all monsters. If mental illness made them monsters, so be it. But don't take exception to a word that accurately describes them.
cult_of_icecream_bar
Pre-Show Stalwart
No he wouldnt and he shouldnt.The guy is a murderer.No way in hell vince can risk mentioning him,let the great matches wash away,i dont care.Thanks to him,wrestling was almost killed.He gave the buisness a bad name.So never he should be remembered or mentioned.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Charles Manson was a decent song writer but no one really gave a shit about his work until he went all race war crazy and commanded his followers to kill people.
The same can basically be said of Benoit. He was a good but not great wrestler who was good in the ring but had piss poor mic skill and never really broke out of the upper midcard; save his complimentary title run as a thank you for what he had done for the business and the company. After he dropped the title he had fallen back into midcard obscurity and people were forgetting about him until he flipped out and did what he did.
I'm not going to bury the guy, he did a fine job of that to himself. He was good in the ring and could put on a good match, but he was never a superstar or big draw and ultimately will always be more famous for the murder/suicide than his in ring ability, and rightfully so. What he did was a huge black mark on the industry that had already come under scrutiny in recent years for being blamed for kids hurting and even killing each other when they imitated what they saw.
The same can basically be said of Benoit. He was a good but not great wrestler who was good in the ring but had piss poor mic skill and never really broke out of the upper midcard; save his complimentary title run as a thank you for what he had done for the business and the company. After he dropped the title he had fallen back into midcard obscurity and people were forgetting about him until he flipped out and did what he did.
I'm not going to bury the guy, he did a fine job of that to himself. He was good in the ring and could put on a good match, but he was never a superstar or big draw and ultimately will always be more famous for the murder/suicide than his in ring ability, and rightfully so. What he did was a huge black mark on the industry that had already come under scrutiny in recent years for being blamed for kids hurting and even killing each other when they imitated what they saw.
slice_of_life
Pre-Show Stalwart
Not saying he deserves sympathy. But people are so quick to judge. The man was basically a paranoid schizophreniac at the time, suffering some serious paranoid delusions. He was not a serial killer. This should be a reminder of how serious mental illness is and the severity of concussions, which the WWE has done a good job of since.
Benoit has been mentioned many times, and yes he will continue to do so as little as possible. Unfortunate, but Benoit does not deserve to be remembered, he slaughtered his son and wife, gutless fuck. So the only time I hope WWE ever acknowledge Benoit in the future is when they officially refute Benoit's World Heavyweight Title win at Mania 20.
The Benoit tragedy is something that WWE just cannot associate themselves with. Forget the moral point over view, it is not good for business itself. That tragedy had a terrible impact on WWE, the wrestling industry and the wrestlers. Debate of steroid, painkiller, the violence, the schedule...everything was out there. And then their was the result on the analysis of Benoit`s brain, it was consequently damaged. That`s the result of what? Wrestling, the chair shots, the head butts etc...that is what most people take from that. Some will say he did not have to do this etc...whatever, the perception remain the same: The guy`s brain was damaged because of what he did for a living. So why would WWE associate themselves with that again..ever? Can you even imagine how much of PR disaster would showing Benoit of TV again mean? How is it profitable to even show him anyway? Because of what happen, I am sure other entities will find exploiting what happen profitable but WWE should stay away. It is not as if Stone Cold did that and they had to stop showing him..now that be terrible for them but again if that happened, even Stone Cold should be seen on TV. Benoit is a wrestling legend but it would make no sense, not matter in what way look at it to show him on TV ever again.
how unnecessary would that be? It`s sports entertainment, you refute a title win as part of a storyline. Just ignore that win is much easier and the right way to do it. Doing such a thing would be a way to bring that whole thing in the foreground again, why would they do that?
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Well that is ridiculous. First of all, wrestling's a fake sport. Refuting a title reign is completely pointless.
Furthermore, wouldn't refuting his title reign inevitably bring more attention to the events that happened? Leaving it alone and not addressing it does more for sweeping it under the rug than bringing a lot of unwanted attention to it would do.
Finally, even assuming it was a championship like what real sports have, what grounds would they have to strip the title reign? Real sports only strip titles when they're found to have obtained them through unlawful ways. Benoit killing his family in no way helped him obtain the World Title.
berlinbrawler
Lovable Curmudgeon
I actually find it very annoying that with every year that passes more and more people go "Oh come on, you're still hung up on that? He was a great wrestler, damnit."
Hello?!? Are those people any less dead now 5 years later? Would Charles Manson have this many supporters had he been a great entertainer prior to going nuts and having his family commit several murders? "Sure, he may have killed a bunch or people. Are you still mad about that? Come on, he was funny on stage and SO talented!"
As far as WWE television goes Benoit never existed. That's the way it's gotta be. It's a pain-in-the-ass for everyone involved, INCLUDING the WWE. This is no malicious Vince McMahon conspiracy to bury and deny a deserving talent because Vince gets off on that. This is all on Chris himself.
They do mention Chris in some undeniable statistics. Title histories, etc. WHat else can they do? Write on WWE.com that at Wrestlemania XX the main event was won by He-who-shall-not-be-named? So he's there. Can't change that. Every time you see the name on some list it's a like a freakin' mole on a guy's face and you have to pretend it's not there. But he won't be mentioned or shown on TV. You may catch a glimpse here and there on some of the documentaries they put out, but it's the mole thing all over again.
Chris Benoit is dead, in more ways than one. Dead and gone forever.
Hello?!? Are those people any less dead now 5 years later? Would Charles Manson have this many supporters had he been a great entertainer prior to going nuts and having his family commit several murders? "Sure, he may have killed a bunch or people. Are you still mad about that? Come on, he was funny on stage and SO talented!"
As far as WWE television goes Benoit never existed. That's the way it's gotta be. It's a pain-in-the-ass for everyone involved, INCLUDING the WWE. This is no malicious Vince McMahon conspiracy to bury and deny a deserving talent because Vince gets off on that. This is all on Chris himself.
They do mention Chris in some undeniable statistics. Title histories, etc. WHat else can they do? Write on WWE.com that at Wrestlemania XX the main event was won by He-who-shall-not-be-named? So he's there. Can't change that. Every time you see the name on some list it's a like a freakin' mole on a guy's face and you have to pretend it's not there. But he won't be mentioned or shown on TV. You may catch a glimpse here and there on some of the documentaries they put out, but it's the mole thing all over again.
Chris Benoit is dead, in more ways than one. Dead and gone forever.
d_henderson1810
Mid-Card Championship Winner
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If Vince is going to do this, fine, but I wonder if he would have a different attitude if it was a "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, John Cena, The Rock or the Undertaker who killed their wife, child and himself?
It isn't hard to remove a lot of Benoit footage, as Benoit was mainly a midcarder, (though it may prove problematic in the 2004 footage, as he main-evented EVERY Raw PPV from RR 2004 to Summerslam 2004).
But say it had been the Undertaker, for example. You have to remove twenty years of footage, the whole streak at Wrestlemania storyline would be non-existent.
It is one thing to promise to do something like that, but then you set a trend, and hope that down the track, no-one else commits a worse crime.
Also, is it only something to this degree that Vince will not show you. Vince has refused to acknowledge someone like Randy "Macho Man" Savage for years too, and doesn't really show footage of him. Why? Because he got on the wrong side of Vince McMahon. So, when you don't acknowledge wrestler's careers because of some petty gripe against them, and then you make the same stance for something serious like this, you blur the line.
Also, you mention OJ. Well, if someone can be kept out of a HoF for committing a crime, why can't someone be removed as well. It shouldn't matter that OJ is already in, he was found guilty in a civil court, and is in prison now for memorabilia theft. So, OJ should be removed, in the ultimate humiliation, to send the message to other HoF to behave themselves. What is to stop someone committing a crime of the same magnitude, but already be in the HoF? You have to have the same rule of everybody.
d_henderson1810
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Firstly, about the brain being stuffed by chairshots to the head. If that's what caused it, then why hasn't someone like Mick Foley also slaughtered his family, as he got eleven brutal chair shots to the head by the Rock at RR 1999? He has also fallen off a HIAC a few times, and had other things that would have given him brain damage, but you don't see Mrs Foley's baby boy hacking up Dewey, do you?
Secondly, for five years, everyone has played judge, jury and executioner on Chris Benoit. You better hope that the police followed EVERY trail, left no stone unturned, answered every question, and considered all possibilities. Because if they haven't, if there is even a .000000001% chance that Chris Benoit didn't do it, then you will all end up with egg on your collective faces. There are cases where the decision is overturned many years later, because of new evidence.
I can tell you one path the police didn't follow. They never interviewed Kevin Sullivan, the man who has more motive than just about anybody. What greater revenge on the man who stole your wife, than to kill him, your traitorous ex-wife, and their child, and then set things up so that your enemy gets blamed? The police did not even consider Kevin Sullivan, because they think it must be a family or friend most of the time. He probably didn't do it, but why not check his alibi at least, to remove all doubt?
There are other unanswered questions (such as the guy who added a death date to Nancy Benoit's wikipedia page on the day she died, hours before the news was released to the public). Also, hear the case put by Johnny Angel, a former wrestler who is now a cult buster, who asks questions about the police investigation etc, on Youtube.Read up on the different evidence, and keep an open mind. You may still think the same way, but at least you have considered all the facts (the same thing a jury would have to do before convicting someone).
If the police got it right 100% of the time, then there would be no need for courts. Just because Benoit is dead, and can't face court, shouldn't mean that he is guilty until proven innocent.
Look, Benoit most likely did do it. But the almost glee that some people have here, that now they have an excuse to wash their hands of him. I feel that Benoit was never highly rated by the IWC anyway, as he didn't have mike skills (the one thing that makes you a superstar in the eyes of the IWC, not something like, say, wrestling ability). So, because he didn't talk, he must have sucked, and he must have killed his family, too. Because the police said so.
Also, you criticise Benoit for this, and yet still all love "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, even though he has beaten up two women, including his wife, Debra. But, oh, that's different, he didn't kill them, or is it because he was cool and could cut a promo?
Secondly, for five years, everyone has played judge, jury and executioner on Chris Benoit. You better hope that the police followed EVERY trail, left no stone unturned, answered every question, and considered all possibilities. Because if they haven't, if there is even a .000000001% chance that Chris Benoit didn't do it, then you will all end up with egg on your collective faces. There are cases where the decision is overturned many years later, because of new evidence.
I can tell you one path the police didn't follow. They never interviewed Kevin Sullivan, the man who has more motive than just about anybody. What greater revenge on the man who stole your wife, than to kill him, your traitorous ex-wife, and their child, and then set things up so that your enemy gets blamed? The police did not even consider Kevin Sullivan, because they think it must be a family or friend most of the time. He probably didn't do it, but why not check his alibi at least, to remove all doubt?
There are other unanswered questions (such as the guy who added a death date to Nancy Benoit's wikipedia page on the day she died, hours before the news was released to the public). Also, hear the case put by Johnny Angel, a former wrestler who is now a cult buster, who asks questions about the police investigation etc, on Youtube.Read up on the different evidence, and keep an open mind. You may still think the same way, but at least you have considered all the facts (the same thing a jury would have to do before convicting someone).
If the police got it right 100% of the time, then there would be no need for courts. Just because Benoit is dead, and can't face court, shouldn't mean that he is guilty until proven innocent.
Look, Benoit most likely did do it. But the almost glee that some people have here, that now they have an excuse to wash their hands of him. I feel that Benoit was never highly rated by the IWC anyway, as he didn't have mike skills (the one thing that makes you a superstar in the eyes of the IWC, not something like, say, wrestling ability). So, because he didn't talk, he must have sucked, and he must have killed his family, too. Because the police said so.
Also, you criticise Benoit for this, and yet still all love "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, even though he has beaten up two women, including his wife, Debra. But, oh, that's different, he didn't kill them, or is it because he was cool and could cut a promo?
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
WWE won't go back to putting Benoit as a prominent part of their history, as a traded company it's too risky for little benefit. I agree with the man who said that we will never 100% know what happened. There is, however small a chance Chris didn't do it, but most have accepted that he did. If it suddenly was proven he didn't then WWE would still not be able to go near it, how would they justify it? "Oh we knew he was innocent all along?" wouldn't wash.
I seriously hope that you (expletive deleted) who keep going off on one as if Benoit planned what he was going to do, never have to experience the nightmare of mental illness. It's something that is never mentioned, the elephant in the corner if you will. I worked in mental illness for a number of years, and saw people who had done things that were much worse than that of Benoit. Actually, when I really think about it, maybe you SHOULD have to suffer it, it might make you better people and a little more empathetic towards people who have these sort of illnesses; And if you can't, you just confirm my assertion that the human race is scum.
Fanatic4Life
Dark Match Jobber
Wow... can't believe it's already been 5 years...
It amazes me how easily people can overlook the issue with his brain and jump to serial killer or monster right away. I'm not defending Benoit's actions or condoning what he did, I'm just saying the condition of his brain does basically prove that he wasn't some psychotic serial killer... he was sick and probably had no idea what he was doing at the time or at least not until it was too late. People are going to have their own opinions about what happened, and they're entitled to have that opinion. Unfortunately, most don't really pay attention to the whole mental illness thing. The fact is? His brain was basically mush. Do you people even realize what alzheimer's does to a person? It changes them. Everything from their behavior to their memory. The study on his brain concluded that in the end it looked like an 85 year old with alzheimer's. Most of the people who call him a gutless monster are ignorant because obviously they haven't done their research on alzheimer's or know what kind of effect it can have on a person. I know for a fact how serious alzheimer's can be. In his case, he developed severe dementia which is another thing that most people who call him a monster haven't studied or experience first hand. The issue for me isn't talking about him on tv or showcasing him, it's the removing him from everything that bothers me. Everything from Orton's first World title to Edge winning the first money in the bank. Chris Benoit was responsible for a lot of memorable moments and matches. Vince McMahon stated himself that you cannot tell the story of professional wrestling without Chris Benoit. (I think it was him commenting on Benoit being in the first encyclopedia) Let's say WWE makes a dvd set about the Money in the Bank ladder match. The set is to include every Money in the bank match the company has ever had. Not having the first one ever on there is stupid. It's not honoring him or showcasing him or even trying to make a profit on him, it's showing the first ever money in the bank match. I mean if ESPN can show classic football matches with OJ Simpson, why can't the WWE have a dvd come out and Benoit just happens to be part of one of the matches? You don't see ESPN editing football matches he's a part of. You shouldn't change history or erase it. Does it even occur to critics that maybe some people out there are hoping to remember him for the person he was before then? (Which close friends of his like Chavo and Jericho will state that he was a compassionate and loving husband and father before his brain began to deteriorate) Like I said, they shouldn't go out of their way to mention him. That's not the right move. But trying to erase him from history isn't the right move either. Chris Benoit IS a legend in wrestling. That is based on history and fact. Before his death he was referred to as a future hall of famer and legend. What happened has tarnished his legacy and he will likely never be inducted into the Hall of Fame. I do hope however that eventually the WWE will ease up on the whole erasing him from moments and matches though. Eventually they should actually feature matches that he's a part of.
It amazes me how easily people can overlook the issue with his brain and jump to serial killer or monster right away. I'm not defending Benoit's actions or condoning what he did, I'm just saying the condition of his brain does basically prove that he wasn't some psychotic serial killer... he was sick and probably had no idea what he was doing at the time or at least not until it was too late. People are going to have their own opinions about what happened, and they're entitled to have that opinion. Unfortunately, most don't really pay attention to the whole mental illness thing. The fact is? His brain was basically mush. Do you people even realize what alzheimer's does to a person? It changes them. Everything from their behavior to their memory. The study on his brain concluded that in the end it looked like an 85 year old with alzheimer's. Most of the people who call him a gutless monster are ignorant because obviously they haven't done their research on alzheimer's or know what kind of effect it can have on a person. I know for a fact how serious alzheimer's can be. In his case, he developed severe dementia which is another thing that most people who call him a monster haven't studied or experience first hand. The issue for me isn't talking about him on tv or showcasing him, it's the removing him from everything that bothers me. Everything from Orton's first World title to Edge winning the first money in the bank. Chris Benoit was responsible for a lot of memorable moments and matches. Vince McMahon stated himself that you cannot tell the story of professional wrestling without Chris Benoit. (I think it was him commenting on Benoit being in the first encyclopedia) Let's say WWE makes a dvd set about the Money in the Bank ladder match. The set is to include every Money in the bank match the company has ever had. Not having the first one ever on there is stupid. It's not honoring him or showcasing him or even trying to make a profit on him, it's showing the first ever money in the bank match. I mean if ESPN can show classic football matches with OJ Simpson, why can't the WWE have a dvd come out and Benoit just happens to be part of one of the matches? You don't see ESPN editing football matches he's a part of. You shouldn't change history or erase it. Does it even occur to critics that maybe some people out there are hoping to remember him for the person he was before then? (Which close friends of his like Chavo and Jericho will state that he was a compassionate and loving husband and father before his brain began to deteriorate) Like I said, they shouldn't go out of their way to mention him. That's not the right move. But trying to erase him from history isn't the right move either. Chris Benoit IS a legend in wrestling. That is based on history and fact. Before his death he was referred to as a future hall of famer and legend. What happened has tarnished his legacy and he will likely never be inducted into the Hall of Fame. I do hope however that eventually the WWE will ease up on the whole erasing him from moments and matches though. Eventually they should actually feature matches that he's a part of.
whoopin' ass
Championship Contender
i think the bigger question is does vince ever need to mention benoit again. wwe has made an art of out removing things that don`t fit into their plans and simply ignoring it. take the nWo dvd they put out. they left out a huge chunk of their history because they just didn`t want to use it. sting is in their alum section despite never actually wresting for wwe but his career seems to have ended over a decade ago according to them. even with all he did, i think vince can edit around benoit pretty good for most things.
BellaEaglesArmy
Daniel Bryan the NEXT WWE Champion
I don't think WWE will ever mention Benoit again. He won't go in the HOF and It's unfortunate. Because Chris Benoit was one of the greatest wrestlers of all time but Vince and WWE got a lot of bad press for what Benoit did. And I don't think he ever wants to deal with that again.
LongtimeLoser
New Member
Although in The Very Best Of WCW Nitro DVD that came out, there was a scene where The Four Horsemen got back together and Benoit was shown standing in the ring with other members, if that helps
BigThunder
Pre-Show Stalwart
I know plenty of fans who quit watching after the Benoit tragedy.
I give Chris the benefit of the doubt on the basis of mental illness, probably more than he deserves (in large part because I was a *huge* fan of his work) but I can't blame WWE one bit for their policy and would not blame them if it continued indefinitely.
I give Chris the benefit of the doubt on the basis of mental illness, probably more than he deserves (in large part because I was a *huge* fan of his work) but I can't blame WWE one bit for their policy and would not blame them if it continued indefinitely.
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