Why is it so right to bash Christianity?

[I hate those Christians]

Sorry, CanadianFan but if you get involved in the question as to whether it is right to bash Christianity, then you have to expect the bad things that have taken place in its name are going to come up. But it is the same if you had asked about Judaism, Islam or any other religion. Christianity is no more victimised than any other organisation.

And of course, Christianity has done many good things such as humanitarian missionary work, bringing people together in a sense of community through worship and influencing some of the world's great architecture. However, as has been mentioned, that does not negate the bad things that have occurred under its auspices.

That said, scrutiny is not a bad thing for as long as the Church hierarchy do not ignore the and learn from those passed mistakes such as the sparking of religious war during the Crusades, the Inquisition (which I believe has been apologised for), the failure to denounce the Holocaust at the time, the intimidation and molestation of vulnerable children left in its care or more day-to-day problems then it can help root out the troublemakers who would besmirch its name and standing.

History is very important to Christianity as it is to all religions, organisations, governments, groups, companies and individuals for the simple, irrevocable truth that if you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. That is why it is right to scrutinise and perhaps bash Christianity for all the things it has done wrong for if we did not then it would not learn.

I am not saying that the History is not important, I am just saying it’s really irrelevant to this topic.

The topic is clearly asking “Why it’s ok to bash Christianity”?

And there are some that are giving lame reasons why it’s ok to bash another religion.

What exactly are you guys doing?

Attacking me for stating a Opinion?

What makes you any better?

Then maybe you guys didn't read Slyfox Original post in this matter when he said Christians earned being bashed meaning it was ok for them to get bashed

but yea w/e

 

[DirtyJosé]

DirtyJose

Oh so your just sucking up the mod’s then? I see.

No, I'm participating in an open debate. Not my fault you thought I was a mod.

You are a catholic and think it’s ok that people bash your Religion?

WOW some Catholic you are.

I think it is ok for someone to feel how they want to feel about it. That label does not define me, it's only a description. I think that it's ok for people to make valid criticisms of any church, regardless of whether it's mine or not.

I don’t think it’s stupid at all, if you and Slyfox think that Christians and Catholics are such horrible people, then why have them on a forum?

Well, first of all, if we did that we'd lose Lee and The Doctor, two guys I love seeing around here.

Secondly, did I say that I think they are horrible people? No. The church has done some horrible things, and that's where the criticisms are being aimed.

That isn’t getting butt hurt. It does not seem like it’s a open forum for everyone when people being criticized and judged by there religion. How is that open forum for everyone?

It's open in that as long as you follow the rules, you are free to discuss and debate most anything. Open does not mean sugar coated plastic fantasy land where no one ever makes any criticism of anything ever.

I can handle it, I’m here aint I?

Being at the adult table doesn't mean you can handle being there.

LOL figure it out, if you can’t figure it out then you really must be stupid.

How about instead you use proper fucking english, instead of lazytype.

You damn right I will especially anyone who claims that it’s ok to “attack” religions when it was clearly stated by Slyfox that Christians deserve.

Actually, if you'd read for once, he said it was what Christianity deserved, not Christians.

I am really surprised your not offended considering it’s saying you deserve to be attacked when he is labeling you together.

No he didn't. I've read his posts, and his problems are not with me. His issues are with the church, and I'm inclined to believe. The difference between you and I, at least one of many? I don't let that "label" define me. I was baptized as a child, having no understanding what it meant. I could have played along with the church and grow up to be a Catholic and not know what it means or what it really means to me. Instead, I took it upon myself to explore, to do research, to read the writings of other religions, and develop for myself what my beliefs meant to me. These are things that no criticism can take away from me, so why should I care? Especially when said criticism is valid and correct?

No one is saying you can't defend yourself, or that Christianity has never done anything good. No one is saying that all the other religions are better than Christianity, or that those who suscribe to other religions don't also criticize others. What has been said is that such well researched criticism, whether toward Christianity or any other religion, is valid. And if you don't know your religion's history, you have very little room to support yourself in a debate about whether or not your religion has done anything worthy of criticism.

 

[Daniel]

I think we have every right to defend our religion and bring up the good as well.

And others have the right to 'bash' (a word that doesn't do justice for what I consider to be intelligent debate) your religion and bring up the bad. And let me tell you, there is a lot of bad in Christianity and in Catholicism, more so than others.

Religion should be open to debate as much as anything else, like personal politics for example. You seem to be under the opinion that your own religion is infallliable and untouchable.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand. Why is it so right to bash Christianity? Try the fact that religion in general has held society back both socially and scientifically. For example, one of the reasons why homophobia is still kind of acceptable in society is because most religions are against it. That would be the one I would go for, but their are plenty of others.

 

[Vanderhook]

It's something called "Freedom of Speech".

If something bothers you, you are welcome to speak out against it, religion included. It's really as simple as that. I'm sorry that my criticism of Christianity bothers you.

For the record, the bulk of Christianity "bashing" here in the states are from atheists, a small minority of people. To imply that the Christianity gets more heat than atheists do is laughable. Christians have a far larger and vocal group than atheists do. The only reason atheists here in the USA target Christianity more so than say, Islam, is because its what we see every day. Many, many, many of our institutions and cultural aspects have Christian undertones, so naturally that will be the religion they speak out most against. Ask any atheist and they will tell you that all religions are equally wrong.

 

[Serious Jones]

I fully understand what the Christians in this thread are doing. Admittedly, in my day, I'd join many a chat room and call atheists out on their hate or hypocrisy for hours on end. As a Christian myself, I know this is falling on deaf ears, but you're not doing God's work or whatever the term you want to use is. When atheists bash Christianity, generally speaking they're okay with the people that are humble with their faith. The ones they don't seem to like are the ones that stand on street corners with bullhorns, which is pretty much equal to arguing with people about what they believe on the Internet. I understand why you do it. You think it's just. After all, one of Jesus's final commands to his disciples was to go and make believers out of the world's people. You should be trying to spread the word, but not by arguing why your way is the right way and how other beliefs are terrible. If your goal is to guide these people you see as lost souls to Christianity, which I suspect you do, follow Christ's example. He didn't argue with those who chose not to believe him. He made believers out of showing them genuine love and compassion. Telling people that they're wrong will only make people more bitter toward Christianity.

That being said, Christianity bashing is accepted because bashing of everything else is accepted. There's no reason for non-believers to hold Christianity in high regard, especially if Christians don't do the same to other beliefs. Several other people also hit the nail on the head, mentioning how many of the church's practices have been pretty awful throughout history.

 

[Барбоса]

I am not saying that the History is not important, I am just saying it’s really irrelevant to this topic.

The topic is clearly asking “Why it’s ok to bash Christianity”?

And there are some that are giving lame reasons why it’s ok to bash another religion.

Now we are just talking in circles...

History is completely relevant to this topic, mainly because the question at hand is vague and all-encompassing.

For anyone to take up the stance that "it is okay to bash Christianity" and produce a valid argument rather than simply for the sake of it, they require evidence; evidence that can only be gathered from events and actions that have already taken place i.e. in the past.

Even if you were to say that current events are all that matter, an argument of poor judgement and potential for scrutiny towards Christianity could easily be made. Whether it is the reprehensible actions of Westboro Baptist Church, the evermore shockingly revelations regarding Catholic priests molesting youngsters in their care or the continued sexist and homophobic stances of many religious authorities and their failure to move the times such as a Christian hospital not providing the morning-after pill to a rape victim who would then be forced to either terminate or have her attackers baby. Or what about the nun who was excommunicated for endorsing a woman's abortion because it would save her life yet the aforementioned molesting priests for the most part escape criminal prosecution and allowed to continue their ministry and later receive a pension due to the Church's unwillingness to allow such an atrocity to become public knowledge...

Without even looking at the events that have taken place before our lifetimes, I doubt very much that you can say that Christianity does not deserve some scrutiny and even bashing due to its current problems.

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

I think in some respects, some members of the Christian faith bring this criticism on themselves, with their perceived holier-than-thou attitude. However, one must always be careful not to talk in generalisations, because the vast majority of Christians are open and fair-minded people, who go about their practising of their chosen faith quietly, and do not try to force their views on others. However it is not only the evangelistic nutters that mean people find it 'right' to bash Christianity, it is also to do with the stereotype that all Catholic priests are paedophiles. It is also important to note that in social circles at least, Christianity is the only major religion that it is considered okay to mock; as Judaism, Islam and Sikhism among others, have people scared of mocking them because of how radical some of their members are, and also due to political correctness.

In short, I don't think anyone here is saying that it is 'right' to bash Christianity, people just do it because they perceive Christians to be an easy target, and do not want to bash other major religions for fear of being called a racist.

 

[I hate those Christians]

People don’t seem to understand that everyone has reasons why they think it’s ok to bash “Christianity” however, just because you have opinions and views that does not make your opinions and views right.

I reread Slyfox Original post and I think it clearly states that he thinks “Christianity” Should be bashed.

All I’m saying is that if people think that bashing “Christians” is ok, then they should handle what ever comes to them.

 

[Барбоса]

Of course, you are right to warn over the potential for lumping people together but that is one of the potential dangers of any individual recognising themselves with any group, the actions of which they have no control over.

In short, I don't think anyone here is saying that it is 'right' to bash Christianity, people just do it because they perceive Christians to be an easy target, and do not want to bash other major religions for fear of being called a racist.

I could not disagree more. I reserve the right to scrutinise and perhaps bash any religion based on its actions. Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, the Christian denominations of Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox, Monophysite et al. - they are all fair game for criticism should they actively participate in, actively or passively encourage, ignore or cover-up something morally reprehensible.

People don’t seem to understand that everyone has reasons why they think it’s ok to bash “Christianity” however, just because you have opinions and views that does not make your opinions and views right.

I would very much say that I and many others are 100% right to bash the Catholic Church in Ireland for their covering up of decades of abuse.

 

[I hate those Christians]

Барбоса

Again like I said, bash all you want and then don’t cry later when Christians and Catholics defend themselves.

They have the right to defend there beliefs and what they believe in.

How are you guys not throwing your belief down our throats when you think to bash us?

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

Of course, you are right to warn over the potential for lumping people together but that is one of the potential dangers of any individual recognising themselves with any group, the actions of which they have no control over.

Of course it is, but the actions of those radical Christians do not help said individual to practise his faith in peace, when he/she is being held accountable for something outside his control.

I could not disagree more. I reserve the right to scrutinise and perhaps bash any religion based on its actions. Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, the Christian denominations of Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox, Monophysite et al. - they are all fair game for criticism should they actively participate in, actively or passively encourage, ignore or cover-up something morally reprehensible.

Perhaps I phrased my original point wrong. Of course it is correct to hold religions accountable for reprehensible actions, however my point was that most people do not do this for Islam or Judaism for fear of being called a racist. In an ideal world, all religions and denominations would be able to be held accountable for reprehensible actions, but this is not an ideal world. It is unfortunate that this is not able to happen, but political correctness rules the roost now, for better or for worse depending on your viewpoint.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Again like I said, bash all you want and then don’t cry later when Christians and Catholics defend themselves.

All I’m saying is that if people think that bashing “Christians” is ok, then they should handle what ever comes to them.

Really, is that a form of threat? You are so self centered, you only see this as Christianity versus the world. Any religion, or government, or other form of authority is certainly a valid target for criticism. The focus on Christianity in this thread is merely because it was singled out for this thread by it's starter. You are quite far from being the most victimized group of people in the world, so frankly get over yourself.

They have the right to defend there beliefs and what they believe in.

How are you guys not throwing your belief down our throats when you think to bash us?

Throwing my beliefs down your throat would include sex, drugs, a copious amount of marijuana, enough alcohol to kill the Denver Broncos, and a defibrillator.

Really though, sharing opinions, whether you like them or not, is not throwing things down your throat. If you don't like reading them, you can always stop. People don't get that choice when they're being tortured or killed for worshipping the wrong god. People don't get that choice when the men who have been established as the authority of God on Earth are locking them up in offices and violating them. People don't get that choice when they are stoned to death for being homosexual, or when their time to grieve for their lost loved ones is taken away by a church which seeks attention for their intolerant cause. That's what real "throwing beliefs down your throat" is like.

 

[TheAnimal]

People shouldn't bash religions, i dont think everyone does. I think maybe in some cases, it is like people generalise and think that a lot of people are christians so some people maybe try to distance themselves from it because they are atheist or have other views. It might not be they are bashing it but trying to show they do not hold those views, and then trying to justify it.

 

[Барбоса]

They have the right to defend there beliefs and what they believe in.

I'm not sure that anyone has said that Christians or any other religion do not have that right.

I for one have never complained about a Christian defending their beliefs. In fact, I welcome it. I will of course challenge any of those beliefs that I find morally wrong should any Christian want to discuss them with me or decides that they need to chide me for not believing the things that they do, just so long as it is a two-way intellectual discussion.

Unfortunately, it is something that does not happen often enough as many Christians just blindly follow what they have been told or play the "Damnation" card so such a dialogue ends up with me giving valid reasons for my position while said Christian simply says that "abortion is wrong because my priest/reverend tells me it is and you are going to Hell if you do not believe."

That is not defending your beliefs, merely preaching from your pulpit.

 

[I hate those Christians]

DirtyJose

Take it however you want, but if people that bash christians are complaining that Christians retaliate and defend there beliefs, don’t the bashers bring it on themselves as well

Барбоса

and I believe bashing people's religion and what they believe in isn't stating opinions. People IMO should be able to state there opinions in a way that wont offend others.

 

[Барбоса]

I believe bashing people's religion and what they believe in isn't stating opinions. People IMO should be able to state there opinions in a way that wont offend others.

Of course, people can state their opinions in a way that will not offend others but what if those opinions are themselves offensive?

People will always have opinions or beliefs that others will disagree with and perhaps find offensive. There are numerous examples that I am sure you do not need me to list.

Indeed, I do not find any tenant of the Catholic faith offensive but I definitely disagree with many of its beliefs. Of course, that does not necessarily mean that I disagree with your beliefs because for all I know you take up a different stance on certain issues from that handed down from the Vatican.

However, I do find some of the Catholic Church's past actions to be reprehensible and reserve the right the bash it for them, particularly the ones that they have yet to admit error for. I do not think that that is attacking your religion itself merely the actions taken in its name. You might think differently.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

ITurnGirlsGay

Again bashing me for the simple assumption that you guys think I don’t know the history of my religion proves how hypocritical you all are being.

You cry when people bash you, but then look what you are doing to me?

Hypocrites and double standards I tell you.

Again this isn’t about the History of Religions. This is about bashing Christians so yes it’s going off topic.

Brother, you cannot have a topic asking people why Christianity gets, categorically, bashed and NOT bring up the history of religion. They're one in the same.

Historical particularities play a factor in why people will trash a belief system. If you're unaware of those particularities then you open yourself up for the ignorance debate. Talking about the history of a religion with regard to why people might, or might not, approve of it is NOT going off topic.

 

[I hate those Christians]

Барбоса

Then the person should be a adult and apologize if the opinion was offensive. I found “Slyfox” post to be offensive and yet I’m being attacked in another forum and in here for simply stating a opinion that is different from all of yours because "Kid's" can't accept that we all have different views and because people have nothing better to do with there time.

What am I doing that is so wrong, by defending my beliefs that I feel passionate about?

I believe that if people state there opinions a adult way then people will respect it more, but if people just bash there view against a religion then what do you think is going to happen?

Some of the bashers that bash Religion bring the hate on themselves.

That’s your opinion and views, I am not going to hate you because you have a different view like how people decided to dislike/hate me because I’m willing to stand up for what I believe in and they can’t handle it.

I don’t like to be labeled together, not all Christians are horrible people. There are some Christians such as myself that is willing to hear all sides of religions but at the end, I do stand up for my beliefs just like everyone else, however I don’t have to bash or attack in order to do it.

I am also not going to put up with people coming into topics saying that all Christians deserves to be attacked and hated on. I am going to defend that rather people in this forum like it or not.

There is a difference in discussing religion and bashing religion. You want to bash a religion fine but then don’t cry and whine about it if that person bashes/attacks you back.

This is how I view it anyways. Both Sides are equally wrong in my view.

See how you and I are having a discussion?

It can be done.

 

[DirtyJosé]

You want to bash a religion fine but then don’t cry and whine about it if that person bashes/attacks you back.

All this nonsense and then you backtrack to this. No one said you couldn't defend your religion. Go read the OP. Go read the replies. Did the title say "Is bashing Christianity the most civil conversation that can be had between two people?"? Did it say "Is it ok to bash Christianity and not expect a defense?"? No, it didn't. If anyone has been going on and on and on while going off topic, it's been you. Nice to see you finally come around to understanding.

Again, any group of authority with a fraction of the influence of Christianity is ripe for criticism when called for. What calls for criticism is in the eye of the critic. If you can't handle a conversation in which you might be offended, don't participate. No one is forcing you. Just as no one is forcing you to recant sins you didn't commit and then torturing you, or how no one is forcing you into acts of vile perversion, or how no one is forcing you to bow to their god or die by their sword. Just sayin.

 

[I hate those Christians]

No one said I couldn’t defend my opinions and views?

Let’s see, you guys choose to attack me, you guys create a thread about me to bash me and for what because I’m defending my opinions and views against what I believe in?? and against my beliefs?

So because I dont' like people bashing other Religions, i'm all of a sudden a horrible person?

Your right how horrible of me, to think that everyone should respect eachothers beliefs and religion.

Grow the Fuck Up all of you.

You guys say your adults but do you see me going into forum creating topics about you, whining and crying about the fact that you have a different religion Aspect then I do?

 

[Davi323]

Christians are bashed because we make easy targets. We don't fight back. We take it on the chin. We don't issue Jihads. We don't kill you for drawing a picture of Jesus. We are FAR more tolerant than any other religious group when it comes to being attacked. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it easier. And, unfortunately, that tolerance has led to attacking Christianity to be socially acceptable, and it shouldn't be.

 

[Барбоса]

You might have found Sly's first post offensive but read it again...

As far as bashing Christianity, don't you think they've earned it? I mean, MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity. Why shouldn't people feel free to bash the Christian religion?

Christians have spent the better part of the last 1000 years bashing anyone who didn't believe what they did, I think it's fair to tolerate a little abuse back at them. Especially given the massive scandals, the money that has corrupted the Church, not to mention the Catholic priest scandals...I think there is plenty to criticize.

What part of that is arguable or untrue?

This post and many of the examples given by me and others describe how the actions of Christians in the past open them up to criticism.

At no stage that I can see in this thread has Christianity or any other religion been slated for its beliefs; rather it is their actions that have been used to construct valid arguments regarding the potential to be criticised, scrutinised and perhaps bashed.

That’s your opinion and views, I am not going to hate you because you have a different view like how people decided to dislike/hate me because I’m willing to stand up for what I believe in and they can’t handle it.

You seem to be mixing up fact and opinion. It is not an opinion that Christianity has its fair share of blood on its hands from its involvement in establishing Holy War, the Crusades, the Jewish Pogroms, the Inquisition etc. Those are cold, hard facts.

Do they mean that you personally shoulder some of the guilt for those atrocities and for the current controversies? Of course not but these events are the reason why people's view of Christianity as a whole is irrevocably tarnished and why they see it as thoroughly deserving of scrutiny and bashing.

 

[Paradox]

Okay, I'm going to put my two cents in here. I'm a christian, I believe that Christ died and paid the price for my sins. Do I like the fact that we as christians are bashed? No, I don't like it at all. However, it is a fact of life. It has been going on since Christ. We live in a messed up world and we all are far from perfect. Christians screw up in life as much as anyone. Thus when we say the things we do and live the lives we live we are called hypocrites. And by all means we should be. That in my eyes is the biggest problem facing Christians today and will face us for the rest of time. We are hypocrites. We say one thing and do another. I'm not perfect I live in sin constantly. 20 minutes ago I was cussing up a storm, and looking at porn. Why? Because I'm flawed not perfect. As all men are. Do I regret? Yes I do. Am I going to stop? Most likely. Because That is not the standard of life I or God stands for. Many see Christians as a bunch of hypocritical Jesus nazis who bash anyone and everyone for doing wrong, but then turn around and do the same thing. I believe we should focus on ourselves and our relationship with Christ and not complain about people bashing us. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO! As long as we live a hypocritical lifestyle. That's my two cents.

 

[The Insano Shiekh]

I have found some of the posts to be true, because there are fakes in Christianity.

But for the real ones, like a kid who can't afford American Eagle or Aeropostale clothes gets made fun of, it hurts Christians all the same. We can barely go out in public with a lot of people up to the north without hearing, "You know God's fake, right?" or "Wow...you obviously are narrow-minded for believing the standards of Christianity." We're being criticized because we don't always believe in just doing whatever we want to do and still get by with it.

And yet, like I said in my original post, if we start trying to say that Buddha is just a statue or Islam is based on murdering, it's equal to a capital murder crime...I'm just trying to ask why it has to be so harsh for people who believe in a higher power.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

For two reasons:

1. It's the most prevalent religion in the United States today. In fact, the United States lays claim to owning the largest national Christian population in the world with 85% of it's total population (approximately 224,457,000 people) vocal about their religious affiliations. That population includes various degrees of religious activity including (but not limited to) nominal (but non-participating) Christians, as well as fully-active full-communicants and life-long clergy. The numbers also lump sum all districts of that faith (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Petecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter-day Saints, African Indiginous and more) into one large group.

By sheer volume alone, any criticisms toward your religion are going to far outweigh the minorities in Islam, Scientology, etc.

2. Because it's arrogance parading as humility, as is all religion for that matter. You preach out one side of your mouth about your service to God, and all things just in his name, while at the same time dictate the lives of others (or try to) out the other side citing biblical law, as if law written by cave-dwelling sand-ridden scribes from centuries prior who lived in an era where moral relativity was about as common as a computer – "inspired" or not – has any place in the future of this world.

Religion, and Christianity in general, is one of the most oppressive and restricting philosophies to which people willingly lead their lives through, all for some sought after consolation prize of life everlasting with the choirs of angels in a golden kingdom filled to the brim with white fluffy clouds for you to frolic in with all your long-lost love ones, to which you have absolutely no proof of it's actual existence, nor can you even moderately guarantee you have a chance at such an idea any more than I do a chance at living with a flying spaghetti monster in the Milky Way when I die.

Perhaps if your leaders spent less time trying to save the world and all of it's inhabitants and more time trying to save themselves from embarrassingly being exposed as hypocrites, your religion wouldn't suffer as a result.