Why hasn't Kane had a legitimate world title run?

[Lil Wes]

I don't know where all the people who are saying that he sucks in the ring and that he isn't over are getting it from.

I suppose because we watch the shows and matches. He's clearly out of shape and very immobile these days.

Kane can still work a good match, if given a decent opponent and more than 3 minutes.

Finlay was a good opponent. Yet that match still sucked and bored me to tears. The match also went around 10 minutes I believe.

His match with Finlay at Summerslam was probably the best match of the night.

not even close. Cena/RKO was MOTN and that's coming from a Anti-Cena smark.

Kane/Finlay wasn't even close to touching that match.

And as for him not being over, he still gets some of the loudest pops of the night and is still VERY much a fan favorite.

You mean Batista? I fucking despise Batista but still He,Hardy and Flair are clearly the most over faces on the SD! brand. Kane hasn't been over consistenly since 04 during the whole Lita angle.

I have addressed them comprehensively fine.

Btw the grammar is knowing the English language well, ignore it if it puts you off mate

I'm going to reply fully to all the posts after mine when I get back from work today (Wednesday)

Not adding to the thread with discussion is going to be counted as spam. If you make it back Wed. Feel free to join again.

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't know where all the people who are saying that he sucks in the ring and that he isn't over are getting it from. Kane can still work a good match, if given a decent opponent and more than 3 minutes. His match with Finlay at Summerslam was probably the best match of the night. And as for him not being over, he still gets some of the loudest pops of the night and is still VERY much a fan favorite.

Kane's match was not the match of the night. Rey vs. Chavo and Cena vs. Orton were both easily better.

I have addressed them comprehensively fine.

No, you haven't.

We say that Kane sucks in the ring, is sloppy as hell, and is old and fat. You say that Creative sucks. The two have no connection. I asked when Kane made 80,000 people go nuts, you avoided the question.

Btw the grammar is knowing the English language well, ignore it if it puts you off mate

I'm sorry, I'm just not used to seeing two adverbs back to back in the same sentence. I didn't realize you could have an adverb to an adverb. But, whatever. Let's talk about Kane.

I'm going to reply fully to all the posts after mine when I get back from work today (Wednesday)

Looking forward to it.

 

[justinsayne]

I don't know where all the people who are saying that he sucks in the ring and that he isn't over are getting it from. Kane can still work a good match, if given a decent opponent and more than 3 minutes. His match with Finlay at Summerslam was probably the best match of the night. And as for him not being over, he still gets some of the loudest pops of the night and is still VERY much a fan favorite.

Are you fucking kidding me, seriously, Kane vs. Finley best match of the night at SummerSlam, you must be mistaken, that match was average at best, if you like Kane than good for you, but the truth of the matter is that Kanes time has passed, would he be a better choice for champion than Batista or Khali, yeah probably, but he shouldn't get the title, the belt should go to some one that they can build the show around, Edge, Mysterio, MVP, Undertaker, guys like that, Kane is old, slow and not in the same shape he was in back when his matches were memorable, and lets not forget he's on a show where most of the top stars are injured, so yeah he gets some pops from the crowd but I garuntee you they are not the loudest

 

[Slyfox696]

but the truth of the matter is that Kanes time has passed, would he be a better choice for champion than Batista or Khali, yeah probably,

I'm not so sure about that. I know I'm going to make some Kane fans upset, but I'm not really sure he's much better than Batista, if not at all. I mean, every once in a while, Batista will pull a good match out of his ass. Three that come to mind are Royal Rumble 07, Wrestlemania 23, and the LMS (from what I hear, haven't seen it yet). The last good match I remember Kane being a part of was the first MITB match...and really, that had little to do with him. I thought he was an interesting dynamic, and certainly helped that match, but it still would have been a good match without him.

I'm not so certain that Batista hasn't passed Kane. Or, rather, that Kane hasn't fallen past Batista.

 

[TheTruNoLimit]

Since when is Kane not over?

Everytime WWE actually does something with him Kane gets great fan reaction. Heck, he got great reactions in his very brief fued with Edge, great reactions whenever he gets in there with Khali, and he even has gotten great reactions going up against Finlay. Don't forget, mind you, that Kane got great reactions in his fued with MVP. I will give you that Kane didn't garner much reaction in fueds with William Regal and Mark Henry, but then again, he was fueding with William Regal & Dave Taylor, and the fued with Mark Henry lasted all of 1 week ha.

So, to say Kane's not over, when he routinely gets one of the best pops on Smackdown! every single week is ridiculous. He always gets big pops, not the biggest, but big none-the-less. There's always Kane signs in the crowd. Fans always get behind him when he's facing someone who's good. Even when he's facing jobbers they'll still pop for a chokeslam and a win. I just don't understand the "he's not over" argument.

 

[Minor League Brian]

To say Kane's not over is just laughable. Did no one hear how the crowd was popping for Kane in his last match with The Great Khali? They were estatic, unless I'm hearing things.

Personally, I think Kane deserves a title for his dedication to the WWE even if its only a couple months. I also don't really blame Kane for his lack of mobility and all that, I mean (as said before) he's only been used in short squash-esque matches; what's the point of being in shape if you'll only be out there for a few minutes?

 

[Slyfox696]

To say Kane's not over is just laughable. Did no one hear how the crowd was popping for Kane in his last match with The Great Khali? They were estatic, unless I'm hearing things.

He's not over as a draw. Funaki and Scotty 2 Hotty were over as well. They'd routinely get great pops. But, that didn't make them draws.

Personally, I think Kane deserves a title for his dedication to the WWE even if its only a couple months.

Are you willing to give a World title to Big Daddy V (Viscera) as well then?

I also don't really blame Kane for his lack of mobility and all that, I mean (as said before) he's only been used in short squash-esque matches; what's the point of being in shape if you'll only be out there for a few minutes?

Interesting point...but, here's the counter...

I don't blame the WWE for not pushing Kane. If he's out of shape and doesn't care enough to keep up his physical fitness, what's the point of making him champion.


And, in the end, the WWE wins.

 

[Minor League Brian]

He's not over as a draw. Funaki and Scotty 2 Hotty were over as well. They'd routinely get great pops. But, that didn't make them draws.

True, but I didn't hear them get the pop I heard Kane got against the World Heavyweight Champion.

Are you willing to give a World title to Big Daddy V (Viscera) as well then?

...touche.

Interesting point...but, here's the counter...

I don't blame the WWE for not pushing Kane. If he's out of shape and doesn't care enough to keep up his physical fitness, what's the point of making him champion.

Which is completely true. Its an endless circle. They don't push him because he's out of shape and doesn't want to get in shape because he's not getting said push. So one of them needs to cave in, but honestly; I never see Kane getting in shape unless something drastic happens.

Maybe if the current trend continues and Kane is injured, he can go into rehab for whatever he does and -maybe- come back a little better in shape, but thats very unlikely. He'd more then likely come back in worse shape then when he was shelved.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

alright lets set somethings straight

1) kane isnt great on mic because he doesnt use it, hmm ya i guess that makes sense right? hes a damn monster, or at least hes suppose to be one, obviously he isnt going to be good on the mic

2) he is a good wrestler and WWEs creative team DOES have an influence on it, they have always wanted kane to do less moves and be more of a ''monster'' as some1 mentioned earlier in this thread in the past kane got some heat for doing non-monster like moves in ring, it seems now WWE isnt really so limiting on his monster gimmick and is letting him do more things in ring and move faster, usually they wanted him to be slower like a dominate monster like khali, but IMO he is moving faster in ring from the past weeks

3) he can cut a good promo, ive always liked kane's promos i find them entertaining

4) just because some of you dont find him entertaining its clear that many ppl still do u can see that by looking back in this thread, im entertained by kane, not because im a fan but because i enjoy his matches/promos =/, hell many ppl are entertained by cena when i dont understand why, sly enjoys cena, ok.. i dont... doesnt mean hes a bad wrestler, i dont enjoy khali or batista also, but many ppl do, in terms of whos entertaining or not u cant decide that, each person has different opinoins

5) IMHO kane's match was the most entertaining one at SS, and it was a match i thought was gonna suck actually, i was all hyped for the IC, punk, HHH, and rey matches but they all were very poor, punk/morrison was too botched and the ending sucked, rey was ok but they focused too much on the knee crap, HHH and booker was ok also but both of them seemed out of place, and the 3 way was wierd nobody could work with each other well, and cenas match was only interesting because of the crowd but the match itself was horrible, though i blame orton for that horrible match... so it wasnt hard for kane having the most entertaining match at SS since most of them were really bad, but i think he did...

though i do agree that hes gotten out of shape and his gimmick needs some tuning but i still enjoy watching him

 

[Slyfox696]

alright lets set somethings straight

1) kane isnt great on mic because he doesnt use it, hmm ya i guess that makes sense right? hes a damn monster, or at least hes suppose to be one, obviously he isnt going to be good on the mic

How does him being a monster affect the fact he sucks on the mic? Maybe he never works the mic because he sucks at it. Hmm, yeah I guess that makes sense.

2) he is a good wrestler and WWEs creative team DOES have an influence on it, they have always wanted kane to do less moves and be more of a ''monster'' as some1 mentioned earlier in this thread in the past kane got some heat for doing non-monster like moves in ring, it seems now WWE isnt really so limiting on his monster gimmick and is letting him do more things in ring and move faster, usually they wanted him to be slower like a dominate monster like khali, but IMO he is moving faster in ring from the past weeks

Again, moves don't make a match good.

It's the intangibles that make a good match. And, Kane doesn't have them. His selling is terrible, his workrate is average, his psychology is terrible and his storytelling is minimal.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

umm actually being a monster does affect it because he never gets mic time, and his character isnt even suppose to talk on the mic, why the hell should he be good on it? the thing they want him to be good at is promos, wich i think he does well, not GREAT, but like i said, i enjoy them

and im not saying more moves or less moves make a better match, but it can help make the match more entertaining, kane does have ring psychology, but since hes a monster he usually wouldnt focus on one part of the body, every big guy just does moves to dominate, and how can u say his storytelling is minimal? he isnt even used in any storyline!, but when he was used back in the attitude era he was great at storytelling, and when he was in that mask losing storyline, he was great then also, and kane does sell ok when he has to, the thing is that most of the times he is the dominate one, but so what if hes not that great in selling moves? most of the roster isnt, hell even flair isnt good at selling, cena is one of the few that actually know how to do it right...

 

[Slyfox696]

umm actually being a monster does affect it because he never gets mic time, and his character isnt even suppose to talk on the mic, why the hell should he be good on it? the thing they want him to be good at is promos, wich i think he does well, not GREAT, but like i said, i enjoy them

Mark Henry is a monster and he gets mic time. Khali is a monster and he gets mic time.

Kane just sucks at delivering lines, which is why he doesn't do it.

and im not saying more moves or less moves make a better match, but it can help make the match more entertaining,

Only for wrestlers who have to rely on them for entertainment. Good wrestlers don't rely on moves for quality matches. Moves only are what is used to tell the story, not be the focus themselves.

kane does have ring psychology, but since hes a monster he usually wouldnt focus on one part of the body, every big guy just does moves to dominate,

But, Kane's moves are...uppercut...flying clothes line....big boot...umm...chokeslam. Those moves have absolutely no logic behind them as a monster. Kane's matches are basically "let's get through 8 minutes or so, so we can get to the part where Kane slaps on a chokeslam". The other 8 minutes are pure crap.

and how can u say his storytelling is minimal? he isnt even used in any storyline!,

His storytelling in the ring. Good matches tell a good story, something that the fans can follow along with and become invested into. The reason this is important is that it gives fans a reason to be excited and a reason to cheer and boo. If a match has no story to it, then fans have no reason to care. Which is why so many wrestlers have to do a bunch of flashy moves to gain cheap pops.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

oh so now khali and mark henry are good on the mic? lol

and what about kanes moves? i find them good and sure some dont go with his gimmick but for example cena is a brawler, wth does he do a STFU?? and hes made guys that pretty much never tapped b4 tap out, why should a brawler do that?? and how come a brawler does that wierd blockbuster thing... doesnt seem like a move for cenas character, and dont ask me why im using cena, i just think hes a good example, but if u want antoher one why the hell does king bookah do that break dancing thing? or those crazy kicks, doesnt really fit his gimmick also, so kanes move doesnt really have to have logic behind him as a monster ALL the time...

and i get what u mean about storytelling in ring, but to tell something in ring there usually needs to be something, anything, going on outside the ring between both guys, u cant throw a match between 2 guys that never even talked to each other and expect storytelling from a 5 min match....

im not saying kane is the best ever but i was impressed with him at SS and SD! and i hope that somehow he takes khali's place as champ until edge gets back, at least i wanted that, but now with taker coming back at unforgiven i think taker should be champ...

 

[Wall_of_Jericho]

Absolutely no doubt on the answer to this. A very loud "YES!"

For the last 10 years Kane has been one of the most over performers in the WWE and at the same time one of their most loyal workers. He has had to go through a ton of crap storylines and performed some pretty stinking "jobs" along the way... for instance (to name just a few).

• Having to "talk" using a voice box the magically finding his voice a couple of years later.
• His "with Undertaker.... not with Undertaker storyline" of the Attitude Era where one week it seemed the two of them were friends then the next week they were knocking the stuffing out of each other.
• The "Paul Bearer is Kane's dad?" storyline. Which according to the family tree WWE painted it means Paul is Undertaker's dad to... confusing?
• Being a tag team champion with.... count 'em.... six different tag team partners. A sign that they didn't really have anything else for him to do so just stick him with some random tag partner and put him on the tag belts.
• Having to feud for the Hardcore Title in the early part of the decade when the belt really wasn't going anywhere.
• Jobbing the Intercontinental title to Albert in 2001.
• Being dropped from the Wrestlemania 19 card in favour of a WWE Diva vs Bud Light girls in a pillow fight.
• Being destroyed by Khali at Wrestlemania 23.

Oh and of course...

• Only holding the WWE Title ONCE.... count it.... just once and for a wopping 24 hours before losing it back to Stone Cold Steve Austin

So yeah without a doubt Kane deserves to be World Champion. The fans would love it. I know that I would.

 

[JohnyC67]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-s_blbgvCPo

One of my fav. Kane clips...not to rehash everything, but Kane is a fan favorite and at the very lest would make a good US Champ although with the talent that is on SmackDown right now he should be in the World Title Mix. You have to question (not just with Kane, but with several wrestlers) how the writers have managed to make the storylines so drab.

 

[Bernkastel]

If pretty much chosen to stay out this thread, mostly because I wanted someone else to do the pro side of the Kane argument for a change. But After reading some of the comments that have been said about Kane, some of them I agree with and some of them I don't. As far as Kane being out of shape, he been in the same same he always was, so to the guys that say Kane is out of shape now, you must be saying he's ALWAYS been out shape, since the day he debuted, because the Mans weight hasn't changed (unless WWE is billing him to be smaller than what he actually is, which I don't think they are.)

As far as Kane's in in skills go, yes Kane is not the greatest in ring worker in WWE. He doesn't have the greatest mat skills nor is he the greatest wrestler in terms of ring psychology, and while he is not the greatest, he is far form being the worse. I can understand guys like HHH and Cena and Booker T being better than Kane, but guys like Snitsky? like Batista? like Masters or even Lashley or Umaga to a certain degree? No I can't see these men being better than what Kane is now. For HIS size, Kane is an excellent worker, he is an excellent seller for a big man, he is one of the few big men that can make a little man look good without ruining his own credibility as a monster. Granted the dominate part of that phrase can be debated, but IMO Kane gimmick is centered around him being a psycho, so really he has some leeway to give up that "dominate" look sometimes in his matches because the fans know, HIS fans know that Kane will always come right back with everything he has, thats the way the character works.

As far as Kane being title worthy, I think that kane has spent so much time out of the title picture that WWE would have to put in some effort to get his credibility back. Really WWE should have given him the title instead of having him unmask at the time, WWE could have given Kane a good title run, THEN made make him unmask. If WWE doesn't want to do the work to push him raise his credibility enough so that he can Challenge for the WHC (which to be honest, as of now I don't see WWE trying to move in that direction with Kane) then I could definitely see a US title reign in his future.

As far as everyone saying that Kane needs to go back to his mask, I disagree, Kane just needs to be Kane. He needs to be unleashed like he was when he first took the mask off, thats the most intense I've ever seen his Character. It would probably help if WWE have Kane a Makeover, some new clothes, a new entrance, and maybe bring back the Supernatural effects of his gimmick. But as far as a mask, Kane doesn't need it to be intimidating or scary.

 

[percyellis22]

I hate how people put so much emphasis on specific aspects of wrestlers in-ring abilities. As if how good a mat-technician a wrestler is has anything to do with whether or not they'll get a title reign. Like Echelon said, credibility and charisma is pretty much all it takes to be champion. Batista's been champion, and while I know it's a bad example, freaking Khali is currently champion. And to be honest, while he's just horrible in every way, it's not really that bad having some enormous dude as champion, it paves the way for a good storyline - someone is going to get a huge amount of credibility when they take him out.

And.... y'know... it's not real fighting, it's just a TV show, you have to realise that at the end of the day, who knows who would actually be champion if they were all really fighting each other, the WWE could make Hornswoggle champion tomorrow and pitch him as being a dominant champion and we'd have to accept it, because it's their TV show. If a character gets shot in a TV show you don't "not buy it", it's just what happens. Anyway, I like Kane, I'd totally dig him with the belt, but it's not going to happen, the dude jobs to just about everyone, if he's ever champion I don't think he'd become champion cleanly and I think he'd lose the belt pretty quickly.

 

[Retrograderenegades]

Out of all the people on the Smackdown roster Kane has been with the company longer than most, there ain't no one else to give it to with Edge out and Taker having been out with injuries I sure dont think Khali and Batista deserve the belt. I think it'd actually help the brand if they gave the title to Kane

 

[PocketJokers]

Kane is a legend, other than the Undertaker himself, Kane is the guy with history and the fans love. Kane is one of the most loved wrestlers this business has to offer. He is more loved by the fans than Cena, Orton, and Lashley in my opinion. Kane is underutilized all to hell, with stupid rivarlies with Finlay(even though their matches are quite good), he is used as extra meat in any match with a title. I am honestly suprised they haven't given him even a tag title in ages. WWE has screwed up, yes, Batista is a big star on Smackdown, but Kane deserves a title shot, he deserves a title.

 

[Hart>HBK]

Kane deserves a title run and he should be moved over to ECW to get one. They should make him the first man to take down Big Daddy V. Then he could get the belt off of Punk and keep the championships for a long run that he deserves. This would give ECW more main even talent.

 

[T-Mack]

Kane deserves a title run and he should be moved over to ECW to get one. They should make him the first man to take down Big Daddy V. Then he could get the belt off of Punk and keep the championships for a long run that he deserves. This would give ECW more main even talent.

well said home boy but if he takes down Big daddy V hez going 2 b face and he won't take title of punk but a ecw heal Burke most likley. he has improved his moveset lots l8aley.without tha mask i don't c if reving a top wwe title but creative could easly set that up with a injury and he'd reapear on ecdub. 1 match that kane will neva win wud b any type of match against kevin nash!!!

 

[PocketJokers]

Actually that's true, Kane would be a huge asset to ECW, and could replace Benoit, and give ECW what they wanted with benoit, some leadership. But I don't see this happening(if it were to ever happen) until after wrestlemania and at a kind of draft like this year, where he would be the big move, unlike lashley of this year.

As said above, if this were the case, it would defeat Big Daddy V and the Boogeyman to build up hype, and than beat someone like Burke, Morrison, or Throne.

I really hope WWE does this, because Kane deserves a lot better than he is getting in terms of matches and titles.

 

[stuey1985]

Kane is not a great in ring wrestler but too be honest the wwe does not have the same exciting matches it used to on a regular basis and yeah everyone has raised how boring batista, khali and lets add henry (who despite being on/off form for most of his tenure still gets trusted with a bigger push than Kane) and many of the current roster do not possess what it takes to put on classic matches now.

Kane's character is far more exciting in storyline terms. Lets forget the old mask days... loook at since then. the rivalry with Shane that year was one of the top ones going around in the wwe but this gave extra intensity to the matches as well, the ambulance match was pretty damn good. he then would move onto the buildup for wrestlemania 20 Undertaker match, the leadup to that was awesome and made Raw watchable whilst still in the heat of that long stale HHH title era. Despite being completely jobbed at wrestlemania he would then go on to pull off that Storyline with Lita, Matt-marriage-baby-snitsky. It worked and was good entertainment, it gave Raw that bit of sotryline flair which had been missing for some time. He had quite a few great matches with Edge over Lita like stretcher match and cage match. it was awesome to watch and was a great filler in preparing Edge/Lita for return of Matt Hardy. his tag reign with Show before wrestlemania 22 was good but ran out of steam but i rember how important they were to the Raw vs Smackdown survivor series match and the excitment at watching him turn kinda heel with Show in double teaming Batista under Edge's control on Smackdown was a top moment of that year. Lately hes jobbed far too much. But i think he definately can draw and in a time where ppl are finally getting over Raw and Smackdowns predictability, with a strong storyline, Kane can still have an awesome WC title reign

 

[Chokeslam_531]

I can understand guys like HHH and Cena and Booker T being better than Kane, but guys like Snitsky? like Batista? like Masters or even Lashley or Umaga to a certain degree? No I can't see these men being better than what Kane is now. For HIS size, Kane is an excellent worker, he is an excellent seller for a big man, he is one of the few big men that can make a little man look good without ruining his own credibility as a monster. Granted the dominate part of that phrase can be debated, but IMO Kane gimmick is centered around him being a psycho, so really he has some leeway to give up that "dominate" look sometimes in his matches because the fans know, HIS fans know that Kane will always come right back with everything he has, thats the way the character works.

As far as Kane being title worthy, I think that kane has spent so much time out of the title picture that WWE would have to put in some effort to get his credibility back. Really WWE should have given him the title instead of having him unmask at the time, WWE could have given Kane a good title run, THEN made make him unmask. If WWE doesn't want to do the work to push him raise his credibility enough so that he can Challenge for the WHC (which to be honest, as of now I don't see WWE trying to move in that direction with Kane) then I could definitely see a US title reign in his future.

As far as everyone saying that Kane needs to go back to his mask, I disagree, Kane just needs to be Kane. He needs to be unleashed like he was when he first took the mask off, thats the most intense I've ever seen his Character. It would probably help if WWE have Kane a Makeover, some new clothes, a new entrance, and maybe bring back the Supernatural effects of his gimmick. But as far as a mask, Kane doesn't need it to be intimidating or scary.

Kane has been my favorite wrestler since I started watching it, and its never changed. I see him a bit different now without his mask, but he's still the same kick-ass monster he's been. Of course, I think he definitely deserves a title run, even if its a Tag Team Championship, because ever since his unmasking, he's only had ONE Championship (World Tag Team w/ Big Show), though I have to admit it was a pretty long reign and a good one. I remember when Kane unmasked, I found out from my little brother because I had missed that match, and those months following the unmasking were the most violent things I had seen from Kane. I actually thought the Additude Era was back....but anyway, if they made Kane as violent as back then, probably with Batista or Khali, and make him WIN, that would be the best...

 

[BigMike1994]

Maybe kane should go chase Kahli and Batista the local joke with a flaming chainsaw thats pretty violent no seriously though I agree with Chokeslam_531 Kane should have another sycho fit like in 03 and become world champ and then him and Taker can fued for the title, now thats wicked kinda like the attitude era only this time with a title

But that will never happen WWE neglects kane for some reason even though kane is just as good as his brother the Undertaker in a dfferent refreshing way. kane does need a title run i just hope they dont chuck the united states title on him because thats where kane stands right now in that division wth MVP, Matt Hardy ect.