The only reason he even got a "push" for the G.A.B was because Mysterio didnt feel he was ready to return to a full time schedule at the time.All the early promotions for the Bash clearly hinted at EDGE vs. REY MYSTERIO for the W.H.C.That's why he immediately got buried after the PPV.
Why hasn't Kane had a legitimate world title run?
- Thread starter TheLoneWolf
- Start date
B
bucksavage
Guest
That is when Kane should had his title run. That was the best Kane character ive seen. Tombstone on Linda Mcmahon on the stage was great. But after he lost to taker they started to turn him face so he can beef with Snitsky. He lost crediblity with that Lita/ snitsky angle. He sucks now.
E
El Mungo
Guest
the sick demented Kane seemed to be the most credible. he doesn't seem AS intimidating as he used to. i liked when he had his mask, there was more mystery and he seemed more of a monster. something needs to be done for a monster heel turn where he does something completely unthinkable, don't know what, but i'm sure something could be thought up.
FoxyLovesLauren
Dark Match Jobber
Kane has worked consistently for the company and has never complained, and greatly deserves a legitimate title run.
His character isn't what it used to be, it's not as good as what it used to be, he isn't in the shape he used to be, among other small discrepencies.
But:
If given the opportunity he can put on a good match. Tonnes of people say he can't and he is useless in the ring, but WWE and creative limit him to what he can do in the ring during a match. The majority of his matches are squashes that see him do the same few moves, eg. sidewalk slam, big boot, flying clothesline, chokeslam, etc. with the match going 3, 4 or 5 minutes at most. As a result of this people criticise Kane despite the fact that it has nothing to do with him - it's the WWE and creative. Kane [along with all other talent] don't write the script and book a match with so and so moves - creative do. Then Kane [and other talent] go out there and do as they have been told. Kane has been told to squash a guy in 2 minutes with a sidewalk slam and a chokeslam etc, so he does it. I mean look, sure he is out of shape and he is limited with his knees and back injuries, but the guy can pull off a dropkick and a damn enzuguri when given the opportunity. He CAN do more than just what we see every week, but what we see every week is a squash, not a legitimate lengthy match. If he was given the opportunity and the time was right and it had been well written etc. then there is room there for a potentially great storyline, feud, culminating with a legitimate lengthy title run.
If you go to a live event and he is against a mid-carder rather than squashing a low-carder he can actually go a while and put on a good match.
Don't blame Kane for what we see him do every week, because it isn't his fault and it has nothing to do with him, he has to simply obide by what he is told.
Kane has so much more potential than many people see nowadays but because he is so limited by the WWE and creative, we aren't able to see it clearly.
Kane isn't the problem here, WWE is.
On a side note, why is he not in particularly fantastic shape? A lot of people would probably say something like he doesn't work out or something, but how about because all he does is squash someone in 2 minutes every week? If he was in a legitimate feud with lengthy matches and main events, he'd be working a lot more and getting fitter in the ring and in better shape due to exercising more than what occurs by picking a guy up and throwing him down for the pin in 2 minutes or less.
Kane has been restricted by the WWE and creative for the past few years now and it is disgraceful. He needs the opportunity. He hasn't been given one. If he is given one, major improvements and developments will be seen.
Then we have people also bash Kane (like it's his fault again :S) and mention the likes of Val Venis etc. that have been loyal to the company etc. in the same way as Kane and we don't see him get a title shot or anything.
1) When did we even say Val Venis doesn't deserve one either? We never!
2) Val Venis is also restricted, surprise surprise in the same way as Kane, and surprise surprise by the WWE and creative!
The superstars aren't to blame here, so don't bash and criticise them.
At the end of the day, Kane is Glen Jacobs, Glen Jacobs is a working man who is employed by a company and who does what he is told.
In the same way that I am employed by a company and do what I am told to do. If I wasn't given the opportunity to do something whilst being employed by the company I am with, that doesn't mean I'm not worthy or capable of doing it, it means I haven't been given the opportunity so it can't be seen!
Kane isn't going to be around much longer, at least give him a decent way to go out. Give him a legitimate title run, and at the end of it, even if it's out of character, let him say something to the fans (in the same way that Trish did) and let him go out with his head held moderately high.
He has worked his ass off for the company for over 11 years, he has been loyal to the company for over 11 years, he has entertained when given the opportunity (he doesn't control it) and he should be recognised for being the best that he could be given the circumstances.
As of this moment, if anyone holds a different belief, don't criticise Kane, not one bit, don't you ever criticise the performer.
Criticise the WWE and creative, for they are the ones that control EVERYTHING.
As for people who say things like "he sucks now" and other things of a similar nature, no! He doesn't! Sorry to break it to you!
He doesn't suck! Yep!
WWE and creative do! They're the ones that TELL HIM WHAT TO DO!
People just don't seem to comprehend that FACT.
His character isn't what it used to be, it's not as good as what it used to be, he isn't in the shape he used to be, among other small discrepencies.
But:
If given the opportunity he can put on a good match. Tonnes of people say he can't and he is useless in the ring, but WWE and creative limit him to what he can do in the ring during a match. The majority of his matches are squashes that see him do the same few moves, eg. sidewalk slam, big boot, flying clothesline, chokeslam, etc. with the match going 3, 4 or 5 minutes at most. As a result of this people criticise Kane despite the fact that it has nothing to do with him - it's the WWE and creative. Kane [along with all other talent] don't write the script and book a match with so and so moves - creative do. Then Kane [and other talent] go out there and do as they have been told. Kane has been told to squash a guy in 2 minutes with a sidewalk slam and a chokeslam etc, so he does it. I mean look, sure he is out of shape and he is limited with his knees and back injuries, but the guy can pull off a dropkick and a damn enzuguri when given the opportunity. He CAN do more than just what we see every week, but what we see every week is a squash, not a legitimate lengthy match. If he was given the opportunity and the time was right and it had been well written etc. then there is room there for a potentially great storyline, feud, culminating with a legitimate lengthy title run.
If you go to a live event and he is against a mid-carder rather than squashing a low-carder he can actually go a while and put on a good match.
Don't blame Kane for what we see him do every week, because it isn't his fault and it has nothing to do with him, he has to simply obide by what he is told.
Kane has so much more potential than many people see nowadays but because he is so limited by the WWE and creative, we aren't able to see it clearly.
Kane isn't the problem here, WWE is.
On a side note, why is he not in particularly fantastic shape? A lot of people would probably say something like he doesn't work out or something, but how about because all he does is squash someone in 2 minutes every week? If he was in a legitimate feud with lengthy matches and main events, he'd be working a lot more and getting fitter in the ring and in better shape due to exercising more than what occurs by picking a guy up and throwing him down for the pin in 2 minutes or less.
Kane has been restricted by the WWE and creative for the past few years now and it is disgraceful. He needs the opportunity. He hasn't been given one. If he is given one, major improvements and developments will be seen.
Then we have people also bash Kane (like it's his fault again :S) and mention the likes of Val Venis etc. that have been loyal to the company etc. in the same way as Kane and we don't see him get a title shot or anything.
1) When did we even say Val Venis doesn't deserve one either? We never!
2) Val Venis is also restricted, surprise surprise in the same way as Kane, and surprise surprise by the WWE and creative!
The superstars aren't to blame here, so don't bash and criticise them.
At the end of the day, Kane is Glen Jacobs, Glen Jacobs is a working man who is employed by a company and who does what he is told.
In the same way that I am employed by a company and do what I am told to do. If I wasn't given the opportunity to do something whilst being employed by the company I am with, that doesn't mean I'm not worthy or capable of doing it, it means I haven't been given the opportunity so it can't be seen!
Kane isn't going to be around much longer, at least give him a decent way to go out. Give him a legitimate title run, and at the end of it, even if it's out of character, let him say something to the fans (in the same way that Trish did) and let him go out with his head held moderately high.
He has worked his ass off for the company for over 11 years, he has been loyal to the company for over 11 years, he has entertained when given the opportunity (he doesn't control it) and he should be recognised for being the best that he could be given the circumstances.
As of this moment, if anyone holds a different belief, don't criticise Kane, not one bit, don't you ever criticise the performer.
Criticise the WWE and creative, for they are the ones that control EVERYTHING.
As for people who say things like "he sucks now" and other things of a similar nature, no! He doesn't! Sorry to break it to you!
He doesn't suck! Yep!
WWE and creative do! They're the ones that TELL HIM WHAT TO DO!
People just don't seem to comprehend that FACT.
Ok, here is where I get upset, people saying Kane sucks, and yet being able to pull off the moves he does, his flying clothesline, dropkicks, shoot even the stuff he did in the money in the bank ladder matches. How can you say after all that he sucks? Kane has been involved in WWE for 11 years, like stated only rivaled by Taker and HBK. How can his loyalty to the company go overlooked? It's a mockery!
Kane needs to go back on the mask again just like what the deadman did and be a no nonsense monster. Im sick of watching his squashes and honestly most of the time he gets too predictable like john cena
Man the last time i remember upping up his game was against christ benoit when benoit (rip) was WHC and that was like 3years ago.
Man the last time i remember upping up his game was against christ benoit when benoit (rip) was WHC and that was like 3years ago.
G
gunner
Guest
I have to disagree that there are more Kane fans than Batista fans.
I don't like Batista as a wrestler but teh guuy is intense. He has good enough mic skills and has some high spots in matches. He makes up for the lack of talent in the ring.
I don't understand Khali being champ so I see your point that if he is champ then why not Kane?
I don't think either of them should be champ.
I thnk Khali is just champ so that Rey can take it off him at the next PPV.
Kane just really sin't that good and doesn't have enough to make up for his lack of talent.
I like how everyone says that Kane is no longer mobile in the ring and cannot perform a good moveset. When in the past month I've seen kane go off with standing dropkicks, an enziguiri on Finlay at the last PPV, and as always his clothesline from the top rope. This is all crap that you wish John cena would do and yet all you have to say is that he is immobile. What do you guys really want??
FoxyLovesLauren
Dark Match Jobber
Couldn't agree more.
Take the dropkick and enziguri for example - the mere fact that the man of his size can get his legs six feet in the air deserves commendation.
Exactly, when do you see Cena throw in a dropkick or enziguri?
Possibly the VERY odd dropkick every few months, as for the enziguri - never.
And you complain about how he does the same 3/4 moves, when here we have a guy who is 320lbs and not in the best shape of his career who is pulling off standing dropkicks and enziguris.
As for the flying clothesline, I'm sure some wannabe-clever moron will be saying "it's terrible and he botched it at Summerslam 2003" - like no wrestler has ever botched a move!
You surely cannot be in any position to rate Cena over Kane on the basis of in-ring skills. Cena has a limited moveset also, but Kane pulls off cruiserweight moves despite weighing double the cruiserweight weight, he can't sell to save the world, and he generally can't deliver any dose of realism to the moves he performs, whereas Kane can in that the loudest sound in the arena is heard when delivering an uppercut, and his one arm chokeslam is impactful, among others.
You moan about John Cena, then criticise Kane and moan that he can't do bla bla bla..
why don't you just stick to moaning about Cena for once, because Kane is much more superior.
I bet Shaq can get his legs up that high as well. Khali can get his legs up that high as well.
When have you seen 80,000 fans go absolutely rabidly nuts for a Kane match?
So, what does that have to do with being a good wrestler, OR being championship quality?
Sure I can. Cena's had more high quality matches in his 2 and a half years as champ as Kane has had in his whole career.
Athleticism and moves are not what makes a good wrestler. See: Pacman Jones for proof.
I completely agree with you on this. Kane's selling is absolutely atrocious.
Melina can scream loud. Doesn't make her a good wrestler because she makes loud noises.
Why are we talking about Cena at all when discussing Kane?
Kane's been living off his gimmick from 10 years ago for the last 5 years. He's boring in the ring, slow as molasses, lacks any real psychology to his matches, can't work the mic to save his life, generally does not draw/sell well,and is stuck with a limited character (whether that's his fault or not).
In no way is Kane championship quality. The Undertaker is championship quality. Kane is far from it.
Verbalcody
Dark Match Jobber
when did this become about what Cena can and can't do in the ring and if Kane is lazy and boring and has no credibility and never wins a PPV match therefore would be a bad champion... and I moan about him AND Cena what is wrong with that its not like I'd praise Cena for his moveset
FoxyLovesLauren
Dark Match Jobber
When have you seen 80,000 fans go absolutely rabidly nuts for a Kane match?
When did I say I had?
Cena was prodigiously evidently the person in question, therefore that is void but I understand why you tried to be clever.
He is linked into it.
Kane's been living off his gimmick from 10 years ago for the last 5 years.
The gimmick that, oh, WWE creative gave him!
Thanks to WWE and creative.
Well you've just completely defeated the object in question! That post was usless!
You attempted to deliver a marginly good argument but that last statement has without omission lost the credibility to the post.
But it was alright, so fair play to you.
J
JayAvarice
Guest
I remember when Kane came back with his newer mask look and killed team canada, that was absolutely nuts. And even louder than that was back in the day when he came back with Paul Bearer to take out the Corporation. Kane is one of those guys who unfortunately has seen his best days go by, but to down play his ability and what he has done in the business is ridiculous. I doubt people will remember any John Cena feud in a few years, but they'll ALWAYS remember the Undertaker/Kane feud.
And the chokeslam is a lot better than an elevated firemans carry. For the love of god, that wouldn't beat my grandmother in a match.
And the chokeslam is a lot better than an elevated firemans carry. For the love of god, that wouldn't beat my grandmother in a match.
RoyalSkull
Dark Match Winner
Except for the fact that his gimmick 10 years ago was a masked, mute, monster who was virtually indestructible. And he hasn't been any of those things for at least 5 years.
WWE Creative has the habit of putting the title on people with either bugger all personality (Mr. Cena, Mr. Khali) or putting on the bodybuilders (Batista) I say put the title on either Kane or failing that give Mysterio another run at least both of the wrestlers have a moveset of more than 3 moves
any1 who keeps saying kane is boring in ring clearley is just hating on him nowadays, cuz i have to say his 2 matches with finaly were awsome! i though it was gonna be kinda crappy but IMHO it was the best match at SS, i was like ''damn if this is the first match i cant wait for the rest'' im not talking about only the enzuguiri and dropkick (he can do much more than that, see him b4 WWE) but he was actually moving really well in the ring, these 2 pulled off a great match and would rather they were in a feud for the WHC then batista and khali, kane proved to me that he still can put on good matches and now more then ever im behind him for being champ
now that WWE isnt limiting him so much hes getting more entertaining, more moves, moves faster, etc... i think hes way better then most of the guys on SD! atm and hope him or finlay get a run, cuz finaly was also very well in those 2 matches IMO
now that WWE isnt limiting him so much hes getting more entertaining, more moves, moves faster, etc... i think hes way better then most of the guys on SD! atm and hope him or finlay get a run, cuz finaly was also very well in those 2 matches IMO
U
UndertakerFan07
Guest
Sly you look like your a Cena fan. Ok Tell me lately cena has sucked in every match he has been in. I would rather see the belt on Kane because cena just acts like a ****** The CHAMP IS HERE! And is a horrible actor when he crys See: Last Nights Raw so u can shove it if your going to talk about Kane because i gurantee Kane winning that title off Cena would make the croud go wild. And Think about it Seeing the same champion for so long gets ******ed everybody whos there just trying to get him really big and crap just to get him over people overlooked like Orton, Kane, Shelton Benjamin, Val Venis, etc. So dont talk crap about kane if cena is boring now. Ive actually enjoyed seeing the recent moves from kane it gets you excited unlike cena he bores me to sleep.
I dont believe the crowd would react if Kane had a world title run. I believe they would react but not the way they would react for Cena, Batista, Undertaker, HHH, or Shawn Michaels. Kane has a limited moveset he is sloppy in the ring and his mic skills are limited. The creative team has nothing to do why Kane is slow, he is basically out of shape. He is i believe forty years old,and over his long career i haver never seen reasons why he deserves to be champion longer than he was. He is very immobile and i believe his monster gimmick is stale and Kane has never been a great draw for the WWE. Yes People love Kane. I myself like kane but it doesnt mean he would draw a enormous reaction of a sold out crowd in MSG.
Kane does not have the ability to carry a match, i believe every good match he was in was because his opponent carried him. Batista is more over with the crowd than Kane. At this point in Kanes career he doesnt deserve the title he is several years passed his prime and it seems like each match he is getting slower and slower. He has accomplished so much in wrestling but with his age and abilty he does not deserve to be champion at this day in age. He has had one title run that is more than some of the best stars ever in the wwe could say.
Kane does not have the ability to carry a match, i believe every good match he was in was because his opponent carried him. Batista is more over with the crowd than Kane. At this point in Kanes career he doesnt deserve the title he is several years passed his prime and it seems like each match he is getting slower and slower. He has accomplished so much in wrestling but with his age and abilty he does not deserve to be champion at this day in age. He has had one title run that is more than some of the best stars ever in the wwe could say.
Alright dude,How the hell does Kane's in ring ability have anything to do with creative? It's HIS job to make the match watchable. Kane is a shit wrestler now. Face it. His time has past. Back in 03-04 when he was one of the most over heels on the WWE roster was when Kane should have gotten his shot. Now it's a little too late. He's old and it's time for the young guys to step up and make a name for themselves. Kane is nothing more than a jobber wrestling wise. Hell he isn't even over with fans anymore with his stale gimmick.
He's old news and should just call it quits anytime now. The only reason we are even seeing him in the title picture is due to all the injuries that have taken place.
Also quit with the spam,triple posting etc...
FoxyLovesLauren
Dark Match Jobber
It has everything to do with them.
And it's CREATIVE's job to write it!
1) Late? Old? 42 year old 'Taker carrying the title wasn't real then I presume...
2) Time for the young guys in the spotlight? That's exactly what Kane says and sticks by, so you made a really logical move criticising someone who believes it's the young guys time for the spotlight for apparently not letting the young guys get the spotlight. Good logic...
Talk to creative about that then.
Side note: he is over.. you haven't been watching.
Give him the opportunity then he is massively over - Kane/Edge feud, he was massively over.
Squashing guys in the same 2 minute matches every week doesn't make him as over - but see creative about that seeing as they're the ones responsible seeing as they, oh look, write the stuff!
I'll be fine cheers.
Wrong. He and the opponent have to work the match.
Taker is what you call "World Title Worthy" Kane isn't.
Henry,Finlay is young? Last I knew he was jobbing to peices of shit monsters. Kane is an old name living off an old gimmick. Time for him to step aside. You have to build up your company not put jobbers from the past 2 years right back into the spotlight especially ones that are as piss poor and non-over as Kane.
Creative is shit. I'll agree but still why the fuck would they want Kane on top of SD! at this point in his career? People couldn't give a rat's ass about him anymore.
Sometimes. He comes out to crickets weekly.
It's Edge..The #1 heel in the business. Even Eugene would have been over during that feud. This feud now including Tista/Khali he was never over. The fans were always behind Batista.
Creative is doing a good job jobbing out this character. It's time for him to go. He's out of shape,Stale,Boring,Terrible mic/in-ring worker,Not over with fans, Only in the title hunt due to injuries etc..
Doubt it.
FoxyLovesLauren
Dark Match Jobber
Wrong. He and the opponent have to work the match.
And before hand they receive the script which will state Kane to squash the opponent in 2 minutes with the flying clothesline and chokeslam. Everything else is in between, everything else being not all that much in 2 minutes.
Oh now you state it.
Let me know where I mentioned them.
Talk to creative about that issue.
I've explained this. He has done for years as he wants the spotlight on the new guys.
The opponents he faces are jobbers I'd say.
Non-over? Your opinion, but why are you blaming him for that? Talk to creative about that issue.
1) The roster has no depth and has been destroyed by the injury plague
2) Vince knows that people like him
3) Given the opportunity they would [regardless, they do]
Talk to creative on that one. You blame him for that, when they're the ones that are sending him out every week for a 2 minute squash - of course no one is going to be extensively excited for that. But given the opportunity they'd love it when he comes out.
It takes two to tango. Or three including creative.
You didn't catch the 'Bash, fair enough.
In your opinion, perfectly fine.
Talk to creative about every point there then as they're the ones you need to thank for it.
Every point.
I'm fine cheers, honestly. I hope you're alright dude.
Who the fuck said anything about Kane squashing someone? I'm talking about Kane putting on a match. Something he cannot do anymore. Kane hasn't had a good watchable match in ages.
Why I had to state it I'd never know. Any smart wrestling fan could figure that one out.
You say he wants the young guns in the spotlight...First of all how do you know? Are you Vince? Second of all Why are you arguing over him not getting a legitimate title run when you say he wants to step aside??
Hmmm.
Creative tryed switching up the gimmick. Basically they ruined it when they took the mask off. Does in matter at this time now in 2007? Hell No. Why? Because he is a past name that is piss poor now.
Batista,Khali and Finlay are jobbers??
Like creative is really going to want to change a dead gimmick on a old past name that means jackshit to the business nowadays.
He is Non-Over. The fans don't care. 10 years ago..Yes...now...No
It's not my opinion. Maybe you should actually try and not hit the mute button. I know it's tough to do during a WWE show but Try.
Khali,Tista,Rey Rey are a good choice during the time of this injury plague. Why?
They are actually over and Batista/Rey is like Cena he draws bucks/ratings. Something Kane would fail at doing.
That explains why he leaves him off shows and has jobbed him out the past 2 years
Depends on who he would be feuding with.
He was put back into the title picture against The Fucking GREAT KAHLI!! and yet they still didn't care.
Yes I did and it was terrible. Fans were 100% behind Batista. Not Kane.
So you blame creative for Kane being a terrible wrestler and out of shape. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
It's Kane's job to keep himself into shape. He is getting older and as you get older you gain weight easily.
Kane is the one that is working the match. Not creative. Kane and his opponent have to call the spots. Kane is immobile and quite botchy nowadays.
You were inferring that Kane was a better wrestler than Cena in some ways because he can do a couple of moves. I simply asked when he had 80,000 people packed in a stadium to watch him and go nuts doing it.
Would you care to answer the question?
Prodigiously evidently huh? Interesting grammar....
But, I had to assume it was about Kane. Because between Kane and Cena, only Kane's selling is the one that sucks. Cena sells very well.
In what way is Cena linked into it? From last time I checked, Cena has nothing to do with Kane's abilities, and Kane wrestled on Smackdown.
Doesn't change the fact that he is living off of what he did 10 years ago.
WWE and creative are responsible for Kane being boring in the ring, slow as molasses, lack any real psychology in his matches, not being able to work the mic, and being unable to draw/sell well? How does that work?
How does him having a limited character, whether it's his fault or not, change the fact that his limited character is unsuitable for a title run?
I can't help but notice that you tend to circle around my arguments, without ever actually addressing them. Could you please actually answer my points?
I meant that he only succeeds now because of what he did ten years ago. If he were to debut today, just as he is, he would be just another Snitsky.
His match with Finlay at Summerslam was anything but awesome. It was one of the better ones of the night, don't get me wrong, but that really isn't saying much. I would say it was average, at best.
And, let's not forget, Finlay is one of the best in the WWE at making an opponent look good. He's boring as hell, and has the personality of a rock, but he can make opponents look good.
Yes, but I really don't see what that has to do with the present discussion.
Even Big Wes has admitted he was entertained by both Lashley vs. Cena and Orton vs. Cena. So, no, every match hasn't sucked.
They are on different brands, friend.
Again, I don't see how that is connected. How does Cena have anything to do with Kane's abilities?
Actually, he made really great points. But, again, you seem to not to actually want to respond to those points, but instead circle around them.
And, could you please explain to me how creative makes Kane suck in the ring. Do they go up to Kane and say, "Now Kane, tonight, we don't want you to display any kind of storytelling ability, and we don't want you to work psychology into your match. Additionally, do everything as slow and as sloppily as you can"? Do they really say that? Have they really been saying that for the last several years?
Could you please clarify or justify your argument?
RoyalSkull
Dark Match Winner
I don't know where all the people who are saying that he sucks in the ring and that he isn't over are getting it from. Kane can still work a good match, if given a decent opponent and more than 3 minutes. His match with Finlay at Summerslam was probably the best match of the night. And as for him not being over, he still gets some of the loudest pops of the night and is still VERY much a fan favorite.
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