Are you people forgetting the talent he had on Cleveland? One year with Wade and Bosh and now it's like he's always had a great #2 to win a title, when in actuality this past season was his first with someone that was top 20, which is what most contenders need to win a title. Shaq had Kobe, Magic and Kareem, Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Gasol. It's extremely rare for top guys to win titles alone. Even the greats needed a top #2. Lebron has that now.
Who's The Best NBA Player Ever Not Named Michael Jordan?
- Thread starter PlayTheGame
- Start date
Moon Knight
Original Prince of Darkness
Everybody mentioned the talent he around him in Cleveland, that wasn't really the point. The point was he had an excuse there do to lack of talent, but not here. So every year he doesn't win one if a failed year. He has no more excuses, now he needs to go out there and win one.
Poop Master Flex
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I agree with this completely.
The sad thing is he shouldn't have used that excuse in the first place. Granted Cleveland was in fact Lebron's team there were plenty of seasons where he had the team behind him to get the job done to simply not pull it off.
I can never consider Lebron one of the greatest until he can show me a great showing in the Finals because after all that's where it counts. Being good in the season and in the finals are 2 very different things and he hasn't had that great finals performance yet even with 2 times at bat, its not like Lebron couldn't have won, he simply hasn't gotten the job done yet.
Moon Knight
Original Prince of Darkness
When did he have the team to get it done in Cleveland? That team was a mess, poorly coached and built very sloppy. When did he ever have a championship calibur team there?
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
To go with this, there was a good discussion on Scott Van Pelt today where they said there are two kinds of players (they were talking about baseball but it's the same thing): players like Rick Helling who won twenty games one year and did nothing else of note after that, and players that are twenty game winners.
If LeBron wins one, it brings him way up on the list, but to be on the top of the list he needs to win more than that. How many is up for debate, but it needs to be more than one. He's proven he can get a team of mediocre players to the finals, so with two other All Stars, one of which has a chance at being a Hall of Famer, there's no excuse for him not to win at least one.
Yes he only had one year with elite talent but that one year he and the Heat failed. They were the best team in basketball from a talent perspective but were outplayed and lost. LeBron himself failed to show up during crunch time of that finals series. It took Shaq and Kobe 4 years because they started with Kobe as a rookie. It took MJ/Pippen 4 years because they started with Pippen as a rookie. Magic won with Kareem in year one and they won two titles before James Worthy even got there. It took Kobe/Pau a year and a half but that combo isn't even close to as good as the trio of LeBron/Wade/Bosh. LeBron has a top 5 player in Wade and at least a top 20 guy in Bosh. That trio is better then any of the pairings you listed above and the trio all came together in their primes
There was no excuse for last year just like there will be no excuse for this year if they don't win (barring injury). Right now LeBron is not in the discussion for top 5 player of all time and it's because of a number of things. Zero titles, 0-1 with the best team in basketball, and then there's the fact that this is only his 9th year in the league. In a few years if he has multiple titles and continues putting up the numbers he is putting up, then he can be in the discussion.
Moon Knight
Original Prince of Darkness
Depends on the team he has, injuries and the talent of other teams. It is more important how he plays each night.
I think there was a guy named Bird who used to play in the NBA. As I recall, he was pretty good.
TheFreshPrints
Busy gettin' brain like Krang
Mr Ferguson
Dark Match Jobber
Dwyane Wade. Don't argue with me because i'm always right.
PlayTheGame
The Cerebral Assassin
Denzel Washington?
PlayTheGame
The Cerebral Assassin
LOL not even close
You sir, know your basketball. I am surprised Oscar Robertson was actually brought up but he is a solid candidate that few of this generation have ever even heard of. Magic is also an obvious candidate and one that is hard to make an argument against. I think Kobe is honestly either right up there, or on his way to being there. I've watched basketball my entire life and I've never seen anyone in my time that was as close to Jordan as Kobe. From his jumper, to his cross over, to his juke moves, everything. Kobe is like a clone of Jordan and you can see how much he studied him, and how much he borrowed from him in his style of play.
Realistically though, I think we are overlooking guys from the Celtic dynasty that won 8 titles in a row. What about Bob Cousy and Bill Russell huh??? I think a pretty solid case can be made for them based on their success alone. When it comes down to it, there have been so many great players in the NBA you could make good arguments for a lot of guys. I think it comes down to personal preference really, unless you are a big stats guy and go with the next leading guy across the board to Jordan, which I don't know who that is.
PlayTheGame
The Cerebral Assassin
Bob Cousy dominated back when guys my height were playing basketball at a "high level".
No way his name enters into the discussion.
But I'm glad you brought up Kobe though, because I agree. I was waiting for someone else to do that. With 5 titles, he may have already surpassed Magic. At least some think so. Some already have him down as the greatest Laker of all-time. So if all that's true (or close to being true), then his name is certainly in the discussion for the spot behind Jordan.
No way his name enters into the discussion.
But I'm glad you brought up Kobe though, because I agree. I was waiting for someone else to do that. With 5 titles, he may have already surpassed Magic. At least some think so. Some already have him down as the greatest Laker of all-time. So if all that's true (or close to being true), then his name is certainly in the discussion for the spot behind Jordan.