Can LeBron Possibly Catch Jordan?

[A11oftheLights]

You're ignoring that Jordan didn't "wait out" the Lakers....he beat them for his first chip. Also beat two time champion Detroit along the way.

So yeah, none of them had a "Spurs like" comeback where they retooled around 2-3 players with the same coach and won more championships 7 years later. I don't think that's a strike to hold against MJ. It's also not a strike against MJ that the Rockets never got back to the finals after winning 2 while MJ was playing baseball. It's not MJs fault those teams got old.

Other than that, the Bulls were winning it every year so how could they even get the chance to play another champion in the playoffs? There WERENT other champions left in the league.

It's not like they were beating bums. Those Portland and Phoenix teams were really, really good in the first 3 peat. Seattle too. Those teams were all better than 2011 Dallas that Lebron took an L too, and probably 2012 OKC too.

Everything you have provided there is subjective. Those portland, phoenix and sonics teams would all be ranked lower than the mavs team lebron lost to because the mavs are a champion team so objectively they are better. It's all irrelevant anyway because chips are team prizes and therefore pointless in determining best player

 

[Makaveli31]

I think tonight laid all questions to rest....LeBron had a chance to put Golden State away at home and close the series to 2-1 but fell way short in the last 1:30 minutes. I hate it when he drives and dishes out but especially during crunch time. No one can stop LeBron when he takes it to the basket. It's either a slam, lay up, or foul. Why he continues to shoot fadeaways or dish it out is beyond me. The last 90 seconds sums it up. LeBron passes to Korver who misses....KD comes down and cooly drills a three. Game Set Match. After watching tonight's game KD is more MJ than LeBron

 

[LBGetBack]

Everything you have provided there is subjective. Those portland, phoenix and sonics teams would all be ranked lower than the mavs team lebron lost to because the mavs are a champion team so objectively they are better. It's all irrelevant anyway because chips are team prizes and therefore pointless in determining best player

Umm....no, everything I said is not subjective. The part about Phoenix, Seattle, and Portland is. The rest was fact.

No, Dallas winning a title in 2011 doesn't mean that team was better than '93 Phoenix. That makes zero sense. They didn't play against each other. Of course my opinion is subjective. I also watched the league closely at both times, so it's certainly not an uninformed opinion.

Saying that there were literally no champions available for the Bulls to beat is not subjective. Those Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons teams were broken up by age, retirement, illness/injury, etc. after the Bulls first title(when they beat them all) basically. The strong teams in the league from 91-98 : Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Suns, Blazers, Sonics, etc. never broke through because they couldn't beat the Bulls.

SMH at giving Bron credit for beating champions that became champions by beating Lebron in the first place. What kind of sense does that make?

 

[Slyfox696]

I mean, Lebron came into the league 3-4 years younger than Jordan. He's going to play longer, and therefore he will pass him in some categories and accomplishments. He already has in some categories.

As great as he is, that doesn't make him the better player. He's nowhere near the scorer that Mike was. He doesn't have nearly he late game offensive heroics that Mike had. To me it comes down to him not being nearly as good of a shooter off the dribble as Jordan. Mike could bang that pull-up jumper at any time. Lebron doesn't have that.

So your argument is that Michael Jordan is better than LeBron because he was better at one aspect of one facet of the game? That's...interesting...

You're ignoring that Jordan didn't "wait out" the Lakers....he beat them for his first chip.

He beat a Lakers team with no Abdul-Jabbar, who was retired by the time the Bulls defeated the Lakers. Let's not forget that.

Also beat two time champion Detroit along the way.

Yes...after losing to the Pistons and the Celtics for several years and only winning after those teams started to get older. Also, this comment is interesting, based on something you say later...

It's not like they were beating bums. Those Portland and Phoenix teams were really, really good in the first 3 peat.

The Bulls had 10 more wins than Portland. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say Portland was "really, really good".

Seattle too.

The same goes for Seattle. I don't think many people expected them to defeat the Bulls that season.

Those teams were all better than 2011 Dallas that Lebron took an L too, and probably 2012 OKC too.

I'd disagree. Phoenix, perhaps, but I think Dallas was better than Portland or Seattle. Not sure about Utah.

SMH at giving Bron credit for beating champions that became champions by beating Lebron in the first place. What kind of sense does that make?

As much sense as you crediting Jordan for becoming a champion by beating the Pistons?

You're ignoring that Jordan didn't "wait out" the Lakers....he beat them for his first chip. Also beat two time champion Detroit along the way.

It's amazing how quickly you gave credit to Jordan for beating the Pistons, but was shaking your head at giving LeBron credit for "beating champions that became champions by beating Lebron in the first place."

I think your hypocrisy has exposed your bias.

 

[LBGetBack]

So your argument is that Michael Jordan is better than LeBron because he was better at one aspect of one facet of the game? That's...interesting...

He beat a Lakers team with no Abdul-Jabbar, who was retired by the time the Bulls defeated the Lakers. Let's not forget that.

Yes...after losing to the Pistons and the Celtics for several years and only winning after those teams started to get older. Also, this comment is interesting, based on something you say later...

The Bulls had 10 more wins than Portland. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say Portland was "really, really good".

The same goes for Seattle. I don't think many people expected them to defeat the Bulls that season.
I'd disagree. Phoenix, perhaps, but I think Dallas was better than Portland or Seattle. Not sure about Utah.

As much sense as you crediting Jordan for becoming a champion by beating the Pistons?


It's amazing how quickly you gave credit to Jordan for beating the Pistons, but was shaking your head at giving LeBron credit for "beating champions that became champions by beating Lebron in the first place."

I think your hypocrisy has exposed your bias.

1. No. My argument is that is where Jordan has a huge edge and it's what put him over the top.(because every other area is close....though late career MJ got a big edge in low post play too) It's why he was the guy at the end of the games, and it's why Lebron is not....as last night showed yet again. If Lebron can't get to the rack, he ain't beating you at the end of the game. He doesn't trust his jumper enough.....give him credit for being smart and not jacking them up anyway. But MJ was lethal with the game on the line because he could beat you in any type of way. You couldn't play off of him.

2. So? Kareem was on his last legs in the '88 championship. '91 Vlade Divac was better than Kareem was in his last few seasons anyway. They'd also added Sam Perkins.

3. Only winning after he got some help when Pippen and Grant developed into good players you mean.

4. So? Portland was 57-25. I guess Cleveland wasn't "really good" last year because GS won so many more regular season games? You're making no sense. Portland had a squad in the early 90s.

5. Of course nobody expected Seattle to beat the Bulls....because the Bulls were one of the greatest teams of all time that season. Again....make some sense. That Seattle team was good enough to win a 'chip in a lot of other seasons.

6. You just downplayed 1992 Portland because they were 57-25....the same record as Dallas. You downplayed Seattle because nobody expected them to beat the Bulls. Guess what? Nobody was talking about Dallas winning the chip in 2011. LOL. When did you start watching basketball? Curious.

7. Detroit went through legendary Boston and LA teams. Yeah, they beat Chicago when they were nobody....because all they had was Jordan. Lebron took L's to Dallas, Boston, SA, in his prime with Wade and Bosh for 2 of those finals L's. Not even close to the same thing. MJ didn't take any L's once he had help, unless you want to count '95 - the year he came back at the end of the season and was still rusty after almost a 2 year layoff.

 

[Slyfox696]

1. No. My argument is that is where Jordan has a huge edge and it's what put him over the top.(because every other area is close

Except it's not close in those areas. Jordan is definitely the better scorer, but LeBron is a better passer, this is virtually undisputed. LeBron is also a more versatile defender and a better teammate. Additionally, LeBron is a better rebounder.

It's why he was the guy at the end of the games, and it's why Lebron is not....as last night showed yet again.

That's just stupid. A game is 48 minutes, not two. What happens in the first 46 minutes is just as important. LeBron is not as good of a scorer as Jordan and no one has said he is. LeBron is, however, every bit the playmaker Jordan was, which is why he so often has the ball in his hands at the end of the game, even if he's not the one who takes the shot.

It never ceases to amaze me the utter stupidity in arguments people will make for Jordan over LeBron. You seem to think the only thing that matters in clutch time is who takes the buzzer beater shot. It doesn't. Think back to the most iconic play of last year's Finals. It wasn't a shot, it was an unbelievable defensive play by LeBron, that was every bit as clutch as anything Jordan ever did, '98 Finals included. There's more to basketball than who shoots, which is a concept which seems to elude so many of the ignorant.

2. So? Kareem was on his last legs in the '88 championship.

I have no idea why you think this helps your argument.

3. Only winning after he got some help when Pippen and Grant developed into good players you mean.

This is true...but it's also true the Celtics, Lakers and Pistons got old. So when the argument was made Jordan had to wait those teams out, it's not untrue.

4. So? Portland was 57-25.

So my point is the idea Portland was this great team is somewhat a misnomer.

I guess Cleveland wasn't "really good" last year because GS won so many more regular season games? You're making no sense. Portland had a squad in the early 90s.

Portland didn't have the best player in the world, nor did they win a championship.

You do understand the difference, correct?

5. Of course nobody expected Seattle to beat the Bulls....because the Bulls were one of the greatest teams of all time that season.

Nonsense...there wasn't a team in the 90s that Sonics team could have defeated for a championship. Not the Pistons, not the Bulls, not the Rockets and not the Spurs.

That Seattle team was good enough to win a 'chip in a lot of other seasons.

Which season? Name the season in which they were good enough to win a championship.

6. You just downplayed 1992 Portland because they were 57-25....the same record as Dallas.

....I feel like you think you made a good point here, but I'll be damned if I see it.

Dallas was a better basketball team than Portland. Nobody on Portland (not even Drexler) was a better player (or a worse matchup) than Nowitzki. Chandler was arguably the best defensive center in the NBA at the time. Jason Kidd, while at the end of his career, is a Hall of Fame floor general. Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion vs. Jerome Kersey, Buck Williams and Clifford Robinson? I think it's fair to call that a wash, at best, for Portland.

Dallas was a better team than Portland.

LOL. When did you start watching basketball? Curious.

When is irrelevant to the fact I clearly have a better understanding of it than you.

To answer your question, I couldn't say exactly, but it's been well over 25 years. In that time, not only have I watched, I have played, refereed and coached. I have been to basketball camps as a player and coaching clinics as a coach. I was once the only player in the Memphis team camp in John Calipari's "chalk talk" with the team coaches. I've sat and listened as Coach K from Duke explains coaching philosophy, even as he's running his eventual national championship team through practice. I can explain to you the difference between Jim Boeheim's 2-3 zone at Syracuse and the true matchup zone Rick Pitino runs at Louisville and why what Syracuse runs isn't really a matchup zone when compared to what Louisville runs. I've seen (and attended in person) more junior high, high school and college basketball games than I could even begin to count and have seen enough NBA games over the decades to have a great understanding of what I'm talking about.

How about you?

7. Detroit went through legendary Boston and LA teams. Yeah, they beat Chicago when they were nobody....because all they had was Jordan.

So you can't admit you did the same thing you shook your head at another for doing.

Lebron took L's to Dallas, Boston, SA, in his prime with Wade and Bosh for 2 of those finals L's. Not even close to the same thing. MJ didn't take any L's once he had help, unless you want to count '95 - the year he came back at the end of the season and was still rusty after almost a 2 year layoff.

I'm sorry, all I heard was, "blah blah blah, I'm a giant hypocrite".

 

[LBGetBack]

Except it's not close in those areas. Jordan is definitely the better scorer, but LeBron is a better passer, this is virtually undisputed. LeBron is also a more versatile defender and a better teammate. Additionally, LeBron is a better rebounder.

That's just stupid. A game is 48 minutes, not two. What happens in the first 46 minutes is just as important. LeBron is not as good of a scorer as Jordan and no one has said he is. LeBron is, however, every bit the playmaker Jordan was, which is why he so often has the ball in his hands at the end of the game, even if he's not the one who takes the shot.

It never ceases to amaze me the utter stupidity in arguments people will make for Jordan over LeBron. You seem to think the only thing that matters in clutch time is who takes the buzzer beater shot. It doesn't. Think back to the most iconic play of last year's Finals. It wasn't a shot, it was an unbelievable defensive play by LeBron, that was every bit as clutch as anything Jordan ever did, '98 Finals included. There's more to basketball than who shoots, which is a concept which seems to elude so many of the ignorant.

I have no idea why you think this helps your argument.

This is true...but it's also true the Celtics, Lakers and Pistons got old. So when the argument was made Jordan had to wait those teams out, it's not untrue.

So my point is the idea Portland was this great team is somewhat a misnomer.
Portland didn't have the best player in the world, nor did they win a championship.

You do understand the difference, correct?

Nonsense...there wasn't a team in the 90s that Sonics team could have defeated for a championship. Not the Pistons, not the Bulls, not the Rockets and not the Spurs.
Which season? Name the season in which they were good enough to win a championship.

....I feel like you think you made a good point here, but I'll be damned if I see it.

Dallas was a better basketball team than Portland. Nobody on Portland (not even Drexler) was a better player (or a worse matchup) than Nowitzki. Chandler was arguably the best defensive center in the NBA at the time. Jason Kidd, while at the end of his career, is a Hall of Fame floor general. Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion vs. Jerome Kersey, Buck Williams and Clifford Robinson? I think it's fair to call that a wash, at best, for Portland.

Dallas was a better team than Portland.

When is irrelevant to the fact I clearly have a better understanding of it than you.

To answer your question, I couldn't say exactly, but it's been well over 25 years. In that time, not only have I watched, I have played, refereed and coached. I have been to basketball camps as a player and coaching clinics as a coach. I was once the only player in the Memphis team camp in John Calipari's "chalk talk" with the team coaches. I've sat and listened as Coach K from Duke explains coaching philosophy, even as he's running his eventual national championship team through practice. I can explain to you the difference between Jim Boeheim's 2-3 zone at Syracuse and the true matchup zone Rick Pitino runs at Louisville and why what Syracuse runs isn't really a matchup zone when compared to what Louisville runs. I've seen (and attended in person) more junior high, high school and college basketball games than I could even begin to count and have seen enough NBA games over the decades to have a great understanding of what I'm talking about.

How about you?



So you can't admit you did the same thing you shook your head at another for doing.

I'm sorry, all I heard was, "blah blah blah, I'm a giant hypocrite".

Mike was a BETTER defender than Lebron too. Close, but Mike was better. You're saying Lebron is a much better defender? Yeah, you're clueless. Lebron is a better passer/rebounder but again....close. Mike was good at both things too.

You clearly never watched Mike play. Not worth reading beyond that, I don't discuss things like this with uninformed people that have an agenda and aren't interested in learning/listening.

I skimmed through the rest but I did notice it find it hilarious that you mentioned 2011 Jason Kidd, but made no mention of Terry Porter.....who was a damn good point guard. Much better than Kidd at those respective points in their careers.

LOL at saying Dirk was better than 1992 Drexler like it's a fact too. Clyde was first team all league and 2nd in MVP voting that year, champ. Might want to do some more research on these guys.

I'd take '96 Seattle over '99 Spurs, probably the '98 Bulls who were running on fumes, and the '94 and 95 Rockets. They had a better overall team, though Dream was better than anyone in Seattle.

 

[LBGetBack]

Except it's not close in those areas. Jordan is definitely the better scorer, but LeBron is a better passer, this is virtually undisputed. LeBron is also a more versatile defender and a better teammate. Additionally, LeBron is a better rebounder.

That's just stupid. A game is 48 minutes, not two. What happens in the first 46 minutes is just as important. LeBron is not as good of a scorer as Jordan and no one has said he is. LeBron is, however, every bit the playmaker Jordan was, which is why he so often has the ball in his hands at the end of the game, even if he's not the one who takes the shot.

It never ceases to amaze me the utter stupidity in arguments people will make for Jordan over LeBron. You seem to think the only thing that matters in clutch time is who takes the buzzer beater shot. It doesn't. Think back to the most iconic play of last year's Finals. It wasn't a shot, it was an unbelievable defensive play by LeBron, that was every bit as clutch as anything Jordan ever did, '98 Finals included. There's more to basketball than who shoots, which is a concept which seems to elude so many of the ignorant.

I have no idea why you think this helps your argument.

This is true...but it's also true the Celtics, Lakers and Pistons got old. So when the argument was made Jordan had to wait those teams out, it's not untrue.

So my point is the idea Portland was this great team is somewhat a misnomer.
Portland didn't have the best player in the world, nor did they win a championship.

You do understand the difference, correct?

Nonsense...there wasn't a team in the 90s that Sonics team could have defeated for a championship. Not the Pistons, not the Bulls, not the Rockets and not the Spurs.
Which season? Name the season in which they were good enough to win a championship.

....I feel like you think you made a good point here, but I'll be damned if I see it.

Dallas was a better basketball team than Portland. Nobody on Portland (not even Drexler) was a better player (or a worse matchup) than Nowitzki. Chandler was arguably the best defensive center in the NBA at the time. Jason Kidd, while at the end of his career, is a Hall of Fame floor general. Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion vs. Jerome Kersey, Buck Williams and Clifford Robinson? I think it's fair to call that a wash, at best, for Portland.

Dallas was a better team than Portland.

When is irrelevant to the fact I clearly have a better understanding of it than you.

To answer your question, I couldn't say exactly, but it's been well over 25 years. In that time, not only have I watched, I have played, refereed and coached. I have been to basketball camps as a player and coaching clinics as a coach. I was once the only player in the Memphis team camp in John Calipari's "chalk talk" with the team coaches. I've sat and listened as Coach K from Duke explains coaching philosophy, even as he's running his eventual national championship team through practice. I can explain to you the difference between Jim Boeheim's 2-3 zone at Syracuse and the true matchup zone Rick Pitino runs at Louisville and why what Syracuse runs isn't really a matchup zone when compared to what Louisville runs. I've seen (and attended in person) more junior high, high school and college basketball games than I could even begin to count and have seen enough NBA games over the decades to have a great understanding of what I'm talking about.

How about you?



So you can't admit you did the same thing you shook your head at another for doing.

I'm sorry, all I heard was, "blah blah blah, I'm a giant hypocrite".

Also, I have no idea why you felt the need to tell me all about your basketball experiences. Like, wtf does the bball camp you went to in junior high or the high school games you've watched have to do with anything? I was clearly trying to find out how long you've been watching the NBA.....from the response it seems pretty clear that you were like 10 when MJ retired and know that you aren't qualified to speak on him or any of this 90's stuff so you deflected.

On the original topic, I don't know why everybody got such tunnel vision with Lebron and Jordan. When did Lebron pass Kareem?

 

[JGlass]

I'm just gonna leave this here for those who believe that Jordan could have led this team to a championship...

 

[LBGetBack]

I'm just gonna leave this here for those who believe that Jordan could have led this team to a championship...

A couple things:

1. Mike absolutely carried the '98 Bulls to that championship. Pippen was hurt that year and struggled in the playoffs. He would never be the same again after that injury. Rodman was on his last legs, also played well below what was expected in the playoffs, and was never a relevant player again.

People just see the names. Those that were there know that Mike had little help in those '98 playoffs.

2. That said, he didn't play the 2017 Warriors in the finals.

3. Lebron has been phenomenal and he has a good team around him that he basically GMd together. The Warriors are just better.

4. Don't know why people can't just appreciate Lebron without being obsessed with Mike. It's weird. People actually get mad about it too.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm just gonna leave this here for those who believe that Jordan could have led this team to a championship...

But, but, but LeBron makes everyone so much better. He's such a great teammate. This data would argue otherwise. It can't be right. It makes LeBron look like a helicopter parent whose shadow keeps his children from building esteem and not meeting their potential.

 

[LBGetBack]

But, but, but LeBron makes everyone so much better. He's such a great teammate. This data would argue otherwise. It can't be right. It makes LeBron look like a helicopter parent whose shadow keeps his children from building esteem and not meeting their potential.

The Lebron stans change course on a dime. Weird bunch.

 

[JGlass]

Don't know why people can't just appreciate Lebron without being obsessed with Mike. It's weird. People actually get mad about it too.

Comparing the two is the whole point of this thread tho...

And from my perspective it's the Jordan camp that is far more threatened by those who say LeBron is his equal or superior rather than the other way around. But old people usually do get upset when conventional wisdom is challenged (for our purposes anyone over 30 is old).

 

[JGlass]

But, but, but LeBron makes everyone so much better. He's such a great teammate. This data would argue otherwise. It can't be right. It makes LeBron look like a helicopter parent whose shadow keeps his children from building esteem and not meeting their potential.

I think you're misinterpreting the data here. What this measures is how many points any one player adds to the offense/takes away on defense. On the offensive side, that includes assists, offensive rebounds, etc.

Long story short, it shows that what little success the Cavs have had this series, it can almost be solely attributed to LeBron. He IS making everyone better, but when his teammates can't get things done without him, period, it's obviously going to result in a huge disparity like this.

 

[LBGetBack]

Comparing the two is the whole point of this thread tho...

And from my perspective it's the Jordan camp that is far more threatened by those who say LeBron is his equal or superior rather than the other way around. But old people usually do get upset when conventional wisdom is challenged (for our purposes anyone over 30 is old).

You'd have to be "old" to know wtf you're talking about here. Anyone under 30 was at the most - 2 years away from being born when Jordan came in the league, and just 11 years old when he retired. Meaning....if that's you, you have no idea about Michael Jordan and are talking out your ass. It's ok, Jordan stans do it too with Kareem.

 

[JGlass]

You'd have to be "old" to know wtf you're talking about here. Anyone under 30 was at the most - 2 years away from being born when Jordan came in the league, and just 11 years old when he retired. Meaning....if that's you, you have no idea about Michael Jordan and are talking out your ass. It's ok, Jordan stans do it too with Kareem.

Wow that's so funny, here I am talking about how old people get upset when conventional wisdom is challenged, and you come in and get upset because I challenged your conventional wisdom! What crazy timing.

I also loathe the idea that anyone who wasn't able to watch Michael Jordan's whole career is unworthy of participating in an informed debate around him. Every possible stat worth analyzing is on the internet, as well as tens of thousands of videos (including full games) of him playing, not to mention anecdotal input from sports writers and basketball personalities.

You don't have to have lived in the Roman Empire to study Roman history, you don't have to have known Shakespeare to appreciate his works, and you don't have to have been a day 1 Jordan fan to analyze what he's brought to the league and compare him to other players.

Finally: This thread was not made to talk about the validity of arguments comparing LeBron to Jordan, which is largely what it has turned into. It's to compare LeBron to Jordan. If you don't want to partake in that argument, you can make your own thread questioning the validity of it.

Look what you made me do: you made me defend a thread Phenom created. Now I feel filthy.

 

[LBGetBack]

Wow that's so funny, here I am talking about how old people get upset when conventional wisdom is challenged, and you come in and get upset because I challenged your conventional wisdom! What crazy timing.

I also loathe the idea that anyone who wasn't able to watch Michael Jordan's whole career is unworthy of participating in an informed debate around him. Every possible stat worth analyzing is on the internet, as well as tens of thousands of videos (including full games) of him playing, not to mention anecdotal input from sports writers and basketball personalities.

You don't have to have lived in the Roman Empire to study Roman history, you don't have to have known Shakespeare to appreciate his works, and you don't have to have been a day 1 Jordan fan to analyze what he's brought to the league and compare him to other players.

Finally: This thread was not made to talk about the validity of arguments comparing LeBron to Jordan, which is largely what it has turned into. It's to compare LeBron to Jordan. If you don't want to partake in that argument, you can make your own thread questioning the validity of it.

Look what you made me do: you made me defend a thread Phenom created. Now I feel filthy.

Yeah, and what % of younger bball fans that pop off about this topic do you think have gone back and watched 1,000's of old games of Jordan? How many have even watched ONE game? I'd bet most have only watched highlights.

I already gave my opinion on Lebron vs. Jordan, by the way. But predictably a younger fan got all butthurt about it.....which lead to me making other points.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

not to mention anecdotal input from sports writers and basketball personalities.

What do these experts usually say when comparing the two?

 

[JGlass]

What do these experts usually say when comparing the two?

Is Google not a thing where you come from?

But just to get you started...

Here's an article where Jay Williams says Lebron is better: http://cavaliers.247sports.com/Bolt...Michael-Jordan-Jay-Williams-says-yes-45905484

And here's one where Hakeem Olajuwon says Jordan is better: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hakeem-olajuwon-michael-jordan-far-superior-to-lebron-james/

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Is Google not a thing where you come from?

But just to get you started...

Here's an article where Jay Williams says Lebron is better: http://cavaliers.247sports.com/Bolt...Michael-Jordan-Jay-Williams-says-yes-45905484

And here's one where Hakeem Olajuwon says Jordan is better: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hakeem-olajuwon-michael-jordan-far-superior-to-lebron-james/

I can only afford Snoogle. Is that Jay Williams who shot a limo driver or Jay Williams who went to Dook? Either way their opinions are completely invalid.

I think if you did a deeper dive in to more opinions from experts who watched both you would see that at least 75% would pick Jordan. And that is probably a low estimate.

 

[LBGetBack]

I can only afford Snoogle. Is that Jay Williams who shot a limo driver or Jay Williams who went to Dook? Either way their opinions are completely invalid.

I think if you did a deeper dive in to more opinions from experts who watched both you would see that at least 75% would pick Jordan. And that is probably a low estimate.

He knows that. He's just playing games for some reason. These cats can't even pretend to have an honest discussion. It's weird.

 

[JGlass]

I can only afford Snoogle. Is that Jay Williams who shot a limo driver or Jay Williams who went to Dook? Either way their opinions are completely invalid.

I think if you did a deeper dive in to more opinions from experts who watched both you would see that at least 75% would pick Jordan. And that is probably a low estimate.

I mean, he's paid to talk about basketball on television, so I assume his opinion isn't completely invalid...

And that may be true. It might not be true. There's lots of knowledgeable people that say LeBron is better than Jordan, and there's plenty of reason for them to think that. There's also plenty of reasons for folks to think Jordan is better than LeBron.

If you'd like to discuss those points I'm sure there are plenty of people in this thread (myself included) that would be happy to engage with you.

He knows that. He's just playing games for some reason. These cats can't even pretend to have an honest discussion. It's weird.

Dude, you're the one that has continued to post in a thread comparing LeBron to Jordan while refusing to do so.

 

[LBGetBack]

I mean, he's paid to talk about basketball on television, so I assume his opinion isn't completely invalid...

And that may be true. It might not be true. There's lots of knowledgeable people that say LeBron is better than Jordan, and there's plenty of reason for them to think that. There's also plenty of reasons for folks to think Jordan is better than LeBron.

If you'd like to discuss those points I'm sure there are plenty of people in this thread (myself included) that would be happy to engage with you.



Dude, you're the one that has continued to post in a thread comparing LeBron to Jordan while refusing to do so.

Ummm, like I said earlier, I addressed this in my FIRST post in this thread and one of the Lebron fanboys who was really young when Jordan played got all huffy with me.

 

[Slyfox696]

Mike was a BETTER defender than Lebron too.

I disagree, but it is certainly debatable either way. But what's not debatable either way is...

You're saying Lebron is a much better defender?

No, I said he was a much more versatile defender. Pay attention.

Yeah, you're clueless.

You're dumbass who fails at reading comprehension and makes a hypocrite of himself.

Lebron is a better passer/rebounder but again....close.

Not really.

Mike was good at both things too.

He was good, no arguing. But he wasn't LeBron good. Just like LeBron is a good scorer, but not MJ good.

You clearly never watched Mike play.

I watched Jordan play plenty. I'm just not allowing nostalgia to interfere with the player he actually was.

Also, I will note that you didn't address the fact LeBron is also a better teammate. That was wise of you.

Not worth reading beyond that, I don't discuss things like this with uninformed people that have an agenda and aren't interested in learning/listening.

Yes, I'm well aware people hate reading about how stupid they are, which is why you're trying to run away.

I skimmed through the rest but I did notice it find it hilarious that you mentioned 2011 Jason Kidd, but made no mention of Terry Porter.....who was a damn good point guard.

No disputing that...he was a good point guard. I'd probably take Porter in the early 90s over 2011 Kidd, just in terms of playing only....but not in terms of leadership, which is what I said about Kidd.

It's like you don't even bother to pay attention before you say the stupidest thing possible.

LOL at saying Dirk was better than 1992 Drexler like it's a fact too.

It is.

Clyde was first team all league and 2nd in MVP voting that year, champ. Might want to do some more research on these guys.

I didn't say Drexler wasn't a good player, only that Nowitzki was a better player and a worse matchup for opposition.

Seriously, learn how to read. It'll keep you from saying so many obviously stupid things.

I'd take '96 Seattle over '99 Spurs, probably the '98 Bulls who were running on fumes, and the '94 and 95 Rockets. They had a better overall team, though Dream was better than anyone in Seattle.

And you want people to take you seriously.

Also, I have no idea why you felt the need to tell me all about your basketball experiences.

Because you were clearly attempting to challenge my knowledge and understanding of basketball by asking when I started watching. Thus, I clearly showed you my level of knowledge.

How come you didn't reciprocate?

from the response it seems pretty clear that you were like 10 when MJ retired and know that you aren't qualified to speak on him or any of this 90's stuff so you deflected.

Deflected? What the hell does this mean to you?

To answer your question, I couldn't say exactly, but it's been well over 25 years.

Seriously, you post like you're one of the stupidest people on the Internet.

On the original topic, I don't know why everybody got such tunnel vision with Lebron and Jordan. When did Lebron pass Kareem?

When he became the best player in basketball, he passed anyone behind him.

4. Don't know why people can't just appreciate Lebron without being obsessed with Mike. It's weird. People actually get mad about it too.

The first somewhat intelligent thing I've seen you post.

LeBron James is the best player in league history, for the reasons I've already laid out. But even if one disagrees, I don't understand the constant desire to slam LeBron, why they cannot appreciate the greatness which is LeBron.

Comparing the two is the whole point of this thread tho...

And from my perspective it's the Jordan camp that is far more threatened by those who say LeBron is his equal or superior rather than the other way around. But old people usually do get upset when conventional wisdom is challenged (for our purposes anyone over 30 is old).

People only want to remember the things about Jordan which is convenient for them. They don't remember Jordan was known as a selfish, egotistical "ball hog" (side note: I HATE the term ball hog, for so many reasons) for the first several years of his career. They choose not to discuss how horrible of a person and teammate he was. They pretend the Washington years (and the '95 season) never happened. They argue that losing before the Finals is somehow better than losing in the Finals.

Michael Jordan supporters basically point to 6 of Jordan's 13 seasons in the league and claim he was the best ever, except to post scoring stats when all of his seasons are included. They allow nostalgia to completely dominate their memory of Jordan.

 

[LBGetBack]

I disagree, but it is certainly debatable either way. But what's not debatable either way is...
No, I said he was a much more versatile defender. Pay attention.

You're dumbass who fails at reading comprehension and makes a hypocrite of himself.

Not really.
He was good, no arguing. But he wasn't LeBron good. Just like LeBron is a good scorer, but not MJ good.

I watched Jordan play plenty. I'm just not allowing nostalgia to interfere with the player he actually was.

Also, I will note that you didn't address the fact LeBron is also a better teammate. That was wise of you.
Yes, I'm well aware people hate reading about how stupid they are, which is why you're trying to run away.

No disputing that...he was a good point guard. I'd probably take Porter in the early 90s over 2011 Kidd, just in terms of playing only....but not in terms of leadership, which is what I said about Kidd.

It's like you don't even bother to pay attention before you say the stupidest thing possible.

It is.

I didn't say Drexler wasn't a good player, only that Nowitzki was a better player and a worse matchup for opposition.

Seriously, learn how to read. It'll keep you from saying so many obviously stupid things.



And you want people to take you seriously.
Because you were clearly attempting to challenge my knowledge and understanding of basketball by asking when I started watching. Thus, I clearly showed you my level of knowledge.

How come you didn't reciprocate?
Deflected? What the hell does this mean to you?


Seriously, you post like you're one of the stupidest people on the Internet.

When he became the best player in basketball, he passed anyone behind him.
The first somewhat intelligent thing I've seen you post.

LeBron James is the best player in league history, for the reasons I've already laid out. But even if one disagrees, I don't understand the constant desire to slam LeBron, why they cannot appreciate the greatness which is LeBron.

People only want to remember the things about Jordan which is convenient for them. They don't remember Jordan was known as a selfish, egotistical "ball hog" (side note: I HATE the term ball hog, for so many reasons) for the first several years of his career. They choose not to discuss how horrible of a person and teammate he was. They pretend the Washington years (and the '95 season) never happened. They argue that losing before the Finals is somehow better than losing in the Finals.

Michael Jordan supporters basically point to 6 of Jordan's 13 seasons in the league and claim he was the best ever, except to post scoring stats when all of his seasons are included. They allow nostalgia to completely dominate their memory of Jordan.

Lebron averages ONE more rebound per game for his career, but yeah rebounding "isn't close". FOH.

You must've missed the season that Mike ran point and averaged 8 assists per game. Understandable that you missed it because you were probably 2 years old, but you should do more research.

Mike averaged 5 apg, playing in the triangle, with Scottie as his teammate. You don't think he could've averaged 7 apg like Bron, in a different offense where his best teammates were scorers and not playmakers?

LOL at focusing on "better teammate" and telling me that Jason Kidd was a "better leader" than Terry Porter. As if you would know. This ain't high school.

LOL at your dismissal of the Sonics, while offering no discussion whatsoever. They won 64 games you know. They swept the Rockets(one year after they won it all) you know. I don't think you know much about them or that era. Seems pretty obvious.

Clyde was SECOND in MVP voting and first team all league in '92. Better than Dirk was in '11. Nice copout with "tougher matchup". Clown post.

I didn't "reciprocate" with my own shit because it's stupid and unnecessary. You had no good reason to bring it up in the first place other than you were trying to flex. Has ZERO to do with how long you've been watching the NBA. Since you really want to know, i coach JV basketball, played my whole life, was all league in high school, and am really good friends with a D-1 coach. None of that has a THING to do with my NBA knowledge. Seriously, who cares? I've been watching the NBA heavily since Dr. J was the man, as my family had a satellite dish and got all the NBA games, and I watched Jordan with similar eyes that I watched Lebron with.

We should all never forget that 75 year old dumb white guys painted him as a "ballhog" who would "never win a championship" because he "didn't play the right way like Bob Cousy did". You're right. Thanks for bringing that up. Those idiots were wrong.

LOL at mentioning Washington. If anything, Mike coming back as a 38-39 year old and dropping 20 ppg just adds to his legacy.

Bringing up '95 is just stupid. He was out for almost two years and couldn't drag a .500 team to a title while returning in March. Yeah, you really got one on him there! FOH.

Mike was better. Funny how you want to talk "better teammate", "better person" and completely unverifiable and non tangible stuff that doesn't matter as far as who was a better player, but you didn't touch "better competitor". Bron got cramps and tapped out, Mike scored 38 with the flu and hit the game winner.

Show me where I slammed Bron? By saying he's not as good as Jordan or Kareem? Grow up.