What Have The ''Rejects'' Done For TNA?

[Shub]

Oh really? Could you provide me a list of about 100 of them?

You're honestly gonna tell me you've never seen fans clap after a mediocre match? Too many mediocre matches don't circle my mind. I guess one would be Chris Harris vs. James Storm Blindfold match at LockDown '07

What's a "real" wrestling crowd? If I'm not part of the "real" wrestling crowd, what am I? Pretend? Fake? Imaginary?

I eagerly await your oh-so-intelligent reply.

Here it is. My definition of a real wrestling crowd would be a crowd mostly composed of mainstream wrestling fans. A crowd that isn't composed 100% of IWFs.

Do you know the definition of the word "mark"?

Yup.

Let's change it "good" matches then, and then everyone's happy.

They may have had entertaining matches, but no good matches. Everyone wins.

Sure. I'm not gonna say they've had 4 star matches but I will say that I along the ppl that watch some of the shows with me (WWE fans) have been really entertained by them.

Not really. I'm a mainstream wrestling fan and found it boring as could be.

That sucks to be you I guess. If you watch the PPV you can see that the crowd was loving it. THE REAL WRESTLING CROWD!!!

Wait...

At the same time you're calling other people morons, you're trying to compare Team 3D to Hulk Hogan? Seriously?

I would never compare the 2. What I said was that an older veteran can still give some credibility to a younger talent. Don't tell me you're going to disagree with me on that.

Then I suggest you leave the thread in a hurry.

I like here though. I'll stay.

Watch it?
I was there. And you're wrong. LAX got good cheers at Lockdown. Both teams did. And when Hernandez came off the top of the cage, the place was on fire.

The were getting way more booes than cheers. You gotta remember now a days you can't always get a 100% face cheer or a 100% heel booes. Not always.

You could have hopped the rail, climbed the cage and and fell head first into the mat and the crowd would've also been on fire. They will pop for something like that no matter who does it. It's called a Spot. Do I really have to explain to you things like this?

Now, 3D was the more fan favorite team, but that doesn't mean that there weren't people booing them (because there were), and that doesn't mean that LAX wasn't getting face cheers.

I explained this above. Read and gain some knowledge.

OK, how about this. They are a one trick pony because the only matches they can put on are terrible matches. And if the match is entertaining (I didn't say good, I said entertaining), it's usually more through the work of their opponent than anything they do.

Not true. Team 3D have put on good matches. Me and you might have a different opinion on what a good match is.

You say "it's usually more through the work of their opponent than anything they do". It's not so much like that. How can I explain this to you? I'll do it with a question. They are supposed to let the young stars shine aren't they?

Why not? You tried to compare Team 3D to Hulk Hogan.

I didn't. You probably misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

Who's the F'N mark now?

Mr. Sam is.

 

[Darkshot77]

...that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. (Matthew 18:16)

Shub it would do you good to learn these words. If two people prove you are wrong (let alone two credible people like Slyfox ond Sam) then you're Wrong. Not to mention the count less others, who have decied not to post (hey if you can referance anoyomus people so can I). I'll keep my words short and sweet, cause your frankly not worth the time, but hey Unforgiven isn't starting for a while so I've got time to waste.

Originally Posted by Shub
Anyone can clap without emotion. I've seen it happen thousands of times after medicore matches.

Wrong again. If its a medicore match they clap out of sarcasim or apathy, both of which are emotions.

They kept getting booed at the Impact Zone which is a crowd filled with stupid marks alot like yourself. All those marks want to see is guys like Kaz and the MCMG do 1000 moves per minute and chant "this is awsome".

Wikipedia: Mark-a fan who believes that the characters and events of some or all of professional wrestling are real. The term can also be applied to a fan who idolizes a particular wrestler, promotion, or style of wrestling to a point some might consider excessive.

Check your definitions. Some one chanting "This is awesome" or "Holy Shit" when Kaz does a leg drop off of the Ultimate X structure, or when Kurt Angle dose a suicide senton, dose not clasify them as a mark (both of these incidents happend outside of Orlando, infact I haven't heard those chants in the Impact Zone in a while). A mark is someone who has excessive flawed logic about a certain wrestler, in this case, Team 3D.

That Fish Market Brawl was very entertaining for the mainstream wrestling fans believe it or not.

I'm pretty sure the lady who was hit in the face with a fish twice at the PPV beleives so as well.

What would happen if Samoa Joe beat Hulk Hogan who is a 50 year old plus man WAY past his prime? I think that would give Samoa Joe a ton of credibility, don't you?

Happen is the operative word. If Hogan would not let Angle or Michales go over him what would make Samoa Joe any different. He would end up breaking out of the Coquina Clutch and kick out of the Muscle Buster only to Hulk Up, hit the Leg Drop, and pin Joe. And if he did win the match would be so bad no one would care.

One trick pony? I don't think so. They've played heels. They've played faces. They've even been in comedy matches and segments. Bubah is awsome on the mic and is one funny dude. They don't need Kurt to make us laugh.

Ok, They were heels and faces to bad they sucked at both. And for the last time is Brother Ray. Brother Ray is very funny, if your deaf...and blind.

Look Shub, It's for your own good. Shut up. Take a tip from me. I have been proven wrong many times on this site, once by that so called "Moron" (your words) Mr. Sam. And what did I do? I backed off, cause I knew I was wrong. I wasnt gonna argue with a man who has over 3000 posts and a full rep bar. It's a losing battle get out why you still can

 

[Slyfox696]

You're honestly gonna tell me you've never seen fans clap after a mediocre match? Too many mediocre matches don't circle my mind.

Surely with the thousands you've seen, you can list 100 of them.

I guess one would be Chris Harris vs. James Storm Blindfold match at LockDown '07

That was an unemotional clap?

Nope. Once again, I was there. You're wrong.

Here it is. My definition of a real wrestling crowd would be a crowd mostly composed of mainstream wrestling fans. A crowd that isn't composed 100% of IWFs.

So, now, the IWC is not as good of a fan as any other fan who pays to go to a show?

Explain that to me.

Yup.

I doubt it. Why don't you prove it?

Sure. I'm not gonna say they've had 4 star matches but I will say that I along the ppl that watch some of the shows with me (WWE fans) have been really entertained by them.

They're entertained by the match for the same reason people are entertained by car wrecks. They're interesting, but not good wrestling.

That sucks to be you I guess. If you watch the PPV you can see that the crowd was loving it. THE REAL WRESTLING CROWD!!!

If I didn't watch the PPV broadcast of the show, how else would I have watched it?

Are you now trying to say that the people in Norfolk Virginia are the only "REAL WRESTLING CROWDS" that there are?

For someone so desperate to insult other people's intelligences, you sure don't make much sense yourself.

I would never compare the 2. What I said was that an older veteran can still give some credibility to a younger talent. Don't tell me you're going to disagree with me on that.

An older veteran can. But that's not what the discussion was about.

The discussion was about what a "40 something, over weight, past-their-prime tag team" could give. In this case, Team 3D.

Don't confuse theory with specifics.

I like here though. I'll stay.

Fine with me. But, by your own words, you probably should leave, considering you don't have the first clue as to what you're talking about most of the time and you're wasting the time of those of us whom actually have an intelligence larger than our shoe size.

The were getting way more booes than cheers. You gotta remember now a days you can't always get a 100% face cheer or a 100% heel booes. Not always.

Wait...

I was actually at the show, but you're going to tell me what happened?

You could have hopped the rail, climbed the cage and and fell head first into the mat and the crowd would've also been on fire. They will pop for something like that no matter who does it. It's called a Spot. Do I really have to explain to you things like this?

Who gives a fuck what it's called? It's still fans cheering for LAX.

Would you like me to build you a flow chart for discussion, so you don't get confused anymore?

Not true. Team 3D have put on good matches. Me and you might have a different opinion on what a good match is.

Yes, I agree completely with the fact we have different opinions.

For example, you tried to insinuate that Team 3D was as credible a win as Hulk Hogan. So, I think that pretty much explains whose opinion we should be taking seriously.

Want a hint? It's not yours.

You say "it's usually more through the work of their opponent than anything they do". It's not so much like that. How can I explain this to you? I'll do it with a question. They are supposed to let the young stars shine aren't they?

What does that have to do with making a good match?

A good worker can make a good match, AND let their opponent shine.

I didn't. You probably misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

Let's review:

1. Someone asked how you can get credibility from beating Team 3D

2. You said that people can get credibility from beating Hogan.

3. With those two in mind, you either made an incredibly stupid statement, or made a complete irrelevant and spammy statement.

Either way, not good for you.

Mr. Sam is.

You don't even know what mark means.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox, fans clap after an OK match. Even if they don't care about the match that much. It doesn't mean their thrilled by the product.

I'm still waiting on that list. It's easy to make statements without having to provide support for them.

I'm great at making web sites. See how easy that was?

They do tend to ruin moments of the show.

Yeah, but that doesn't make them any less of a wrestling fan. Thus, trying to say "real" wrestling fan, giving the appearance that you believe one fan to be superior to another, is simply ignorant.

You could hear some fans chanting "We want wrestling" during the Angle vs Joe MMA style match at LockDown '08.

I don't blame them. That match sucked balls.

Wikipedia: Mark-a fan who believes that the characters and events of some or all of professional wrestling are real. The term can also be applied to a fan who idolizes a particular wrestler, promotion, or STYLE OF WRESTLING to a point some might consider excessive.

Well, if Wikipedia says it, it MUST be true.

Do you even know what Wikipedia is? I'd hope the answer is no, because it'd make a lot more sense for you to post something from there as a fact.

As long as their entertained and keep tunning in, business is good. Which is why I said at the begining that TNA should keep them.

Doesn't change the fact that the matches suck.

Team 3D having those matches has little to do with those fans tuning in. Having spotty carwrecks of a match is hardly what makes fans pay for the product. Now, will it entertain the crowd once they are there? Perhaps. But, Team 3D vs. LAX in a Fish fight isn't going to sell.

Never said that. They were just an example of a mainstream wrestling audience. There are plenty of those around the country.

Then why did you so quickly dismiss my opinion? I said that I found it boring, and you said that REAL WRESTLING FANS found it entertaining.

I'm proving your points wrong with perfect sense.

Yes, because faulty logic and inaccurate statements are how you prove someone else wrong.

Just because they've gained weight they lost credibility? Most veterans are way past their prime. They still have alot to give.

No, they lost credibility because they suck. Beating Team 3D means as much as beating the Brooklyn Brawler.

I watched it on TV. LIVE ON PAY-PER-VIEW.

Who gives a fuck? I was actually in the arena when it happened. I am privy to the complete and unfiltered scene in the arena. I can tell you there was a sign that says "We've Cena Nuff". I can tell you there was a "turn the sound off" chant during the Electrified Steel Cage match, from the crowd opposite the entrance ramp. I can tell you that the hard camera side had virtually no fans sitting there. I can tell you that Shark Boy came through the crowd, taking pictures, as did Backlund, and So Cal Val.

I was there. I win.

If it was Devon jumping off the top, don't you think fans would've cheered just as much? The refery could've done it and you would've got a pop.

Maybe so. What does that have to do with the fact that fans cheered LAX?

You can spin this any way you want, but you can't get around the unavoidable fact that LAX got cheers.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that a win over 3D would give you as much credibility as a win on Hogan. Go back and read.

So, then, you made a completely irrelevant and spammy statement.

Congratulations on your red herring argument.

That's what Team 3D has been doing.

Just without the "good match" part.

You're interpreting my words the way you want to, not the way you know they were meant.

No, I'm taking your words and smacking you across the face with their ridiculousness.

Major difference.

I don't blame you though. I tend to make good points and you have to defend yourself somehow in this debate.

If you say that you are making "good points" 100 times, it doesn't change the fact that your position and arguments are utter garbage.

I'm going to give you the same article I gave your bum-buddy over there to read. Just so you know, I'm not saying this man is the most credible man in the world, but people would probably take this man more serious than SLYFOX696.

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/powellsblog/article1002692.shtml

Who the fuck is Jason Powell? If I spend a bunch of money to steal "news" from other people, will I then be as credible as Jason Powell?

Seriously, because this guy spends money on his own web site, he now is seen as a credible informant on wrestling? I should consider making a web site on nuclear physics. Maybe then people would consider me an expert.

 

[Darkshot77]

Ohhh it all makes sense now, you watch PPV's on TV where fans reactions are edited to keep kafabe. Nothing is "Live TV" anymore, at least not for TNA. These "real wrestling crowds" are manipulated by TNA to make dumb people like you beleive what is untrue. Ever heard of a "live delay"? They have just enough time to edit what they dont want out and give you a product you beleive is real. So there is you problem right there. Oh and nother thing if you are gind to question Sly's cred. I will question yours. Who are you? What makes you so credible? Oh and try to awnser with something that makes sense. I know thats hard with a 5th grade education and all.

 

[MNF]

Aren't most of the people released from WWE due to "budget cuts"? I hate the term reject. As far as Matt Morgon, I know a few wrestling fans in my small hometown who like him now, and his finisher. They think its cool.

Slyfox696, you keep owning that guy. Clap, Clap, Clap. Are you as pumped as me for Jeff Jarretts return. You probably know, im the biggest Jeff Jarrett fan on the net.

 

[EtherBoo]

If it matters since it seems like there is a conversation going on, from the bit of TNA I've watched, I'd say Team 3D is the only set of decent rejects they've gotten, and I include Jarret in that bunch because Vince clearly did not want him.

Now Jarret isn't terrible, I've just never really cared for him as a performer, although when I did meet him, he was really nice, I just didn't mark out for him and treated him like a guy in the room.

Nobody else really catches my attention.

 

[Darkshot77]

Nice try Shub, but again you fail. That was New York City, their home town. And almost eveyone there was a 3D suporter, your info is again tainted. So they can entertain fans in their home town, so what. That dosent have any berring on what they supposedly bring to TNA. I applaud you effort but ultimately you fail.

Apperantly your too afraid to answer my challenge. I called you out before and I will do it again. Why are you more credible than Sam and Sly? Who are you?

 

[agentsmith22]

vince has stepped his game up the wee is definetly on an upswing right now. as for wrestlers being released due to budget cuts, sometimes that's true, sometimes its because creative doesn't have anything for them, and sometimes its because they just didnt connect with the wwe audience (chris harris?). in the case of this forum, im pretty sure hes talking about the guys that they just cut because they saw no more use for them, not the budget cut wrestlers. those are usually in developmental. however i do think that having name wrestlers help to establish a company. in the early days, i think it was important to get some of those guys from wwe over in tna, if only to help build the tna originals. unfortunetly, that didn't really happen as some of the tna guys got pushed by the wayside. im a big wwe fan, a mark if you will, and i probably represent the majority of wrestling fans in the united states, so for me the main reason i started watching tna was to see how christian and kurt angle were doing. but to see people like bg james, and team 3d, people who i were already sick of in wwe is counterproductive to what they, at least i believe, were trying to accomplish. as a big ROH fan as well, it was really fun to see some of those guys rise in the ranks too. sadly, with this new major storyline theyre doing, i think its just going to get messy because the heels and faces aren't clearly defined. I'm a fan of Joe's ring work and his stuff from ROH, and Sting is an absolute legend, so now you're telling me I have to choose between them? and s ting is going to have all the "rejects" on his side? very questionable call. well, that's the viewpoint from a very average, mainstream wrestling fan.

p.s. i agree with you, Ballin247. when it starts to get really bad, im jsut gonna stop watching. i got a beer thrown at me at the Hammerstein because i went to an roh show and MCMG came out, and my section starting chanting TNA sucks, so i quite politely informed them that they were at an ROH show and didnt need to be talking about tna (well not in those exact words haha)