WCW Region, Phoenix Subregion, Second Round: (2) Undertaker vs. (15) Big Daddy

[Bythedockofthebay]

Take does draw, look at Mania buys for the reason.

Big Daddy wouldn't have the stamina to last for Taker sadly. Taker wins.

LMFAO, why does Taker get credit for the Wrestlemania buyrates? He's been at Wrestlemania 22 times and some of them are the lowest ever. If Taker was a consistent draw, the ratings would've been consistently high. But when Taker is the highlighted and put on as the ME, the buyrates go down. WM 13 and WM 26 are great examples of this.

When Cena and Rock highlighted WM the rates went up. But then again if Taker is getting credit for their work I never want to hear that HBK wasn't a draw again.

Taker NEVER moved the needle, he was just there when other people did. Whether that was Austin, Hogan, Rock, Cena, or someone else. Saying that Taker is the reason for the WM buyrates is kind of like saying Miz is the reason for WM 27 success.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

LMFAO, why does Taker get credit for the Wrestlemania buyrates? He's been at Wrestlemania 22 times and some of them are the lowest ever. If Taker was a consistent draw, the ratings would've been consistently high. But when Taker is the highlighted and put on as the ME, the buyrates go down. WM 13 and WM 26 are great examples of this.

When Cena and Rock highlighted WM the rates went up. But then again if Taker is getting credit for their work I never want to hear that HBK wasn't a draw again.

Taker NEVER moved the needle, he was just there when other people did. Whether that was Austin, Hogan, Rock, Cena, or someone else. Saying that Taker is the reason for the WM buyrates is kind of like saying Miz is the reason for WM 27 success.

Big Daddy wasn't a big draw in terms of live events either. In fact, he did more harm than good for wrestling in Britain in that regard. The character translated extremely well to British television, but not so much in terms of buy rates, which is a good reason why "Wrestling" declined and World of Sport was eventually cancelled.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Big Daddy wasn't a big draw in terms of live events either. In fact, he did more harm than good for wrestling in Britain in that regard. The character translated extremely well to British television, but not so much in terms of buy rates, which is a good reason why "Wrestling" declined and World of Sport was eventually cancelled.

Someone said that Taker was on Andre's level as a special attraction which means he'd be on that level as a draw which is just flat out wrong. Secondly, Big Daddy was the reason for the increase in British wrestling which no one can say for Taker. Secondly, Big Daddy transcended wrestling while Taker is known for pretty much nothing but, and he's highly overrated. Fact is that Taker never moved the needle, Big Daddy did.

Winner- Big Daddy with the splashdown

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

Someone said that Taker was on Andre's level as a special attraction which means he'd be on that level as a draw which is just flat out wrong. Secondly, Big Daddy was the reason for the increase in British wrestling which no one can say for Taker. Secondly, Big Daddy transcended wrestling while Taker is known for pretty much nothing but, and he's highly overrated. Fact is that Taker never moved the needle, Big Daddy did.

Winner- Big Daddy with the splashdown

Here's the thing: British wrestling is overshadowed by American, Canadian, Mexican and Japanese wrestling by a large amount so it's in fifth position at best (and that position is debatable too). We're comparing the biggest guy in the fifth position country against one of the biggest wrestlers in the pole position country.

He transcended wrestling by appearing in a mediocre comic strip that was outclassed by a good deal of the other comics at the time. That's not really much to scream about. And we've established he's not even in the same book as El Santo in terms of accomplishments.

Big Daddy moved the needle for the fifth position wrestling country. Undertaker moved the needle for wrestling gimmicks across the globe and changed wrestling forever.

Also, if you think Taker is highly overrated, why is he your avatar? I get that overrated doesn't mean you dislike him, but why do you want a guy you consider overrated on all of your posts?

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Here's the thing: British wrestling is overshadowed by American, Canadian, Mexican and Japanese wrestling by a large amount so it's in fifth position at best (and that position is debatable too). We're comparing the biggest guy in the fifth position country against one of the biggest wrestlers in the pole position country.

He transcended wrestling by appearing in a mediocre comic strip that was outclassed by a good deal of the other comics at the time. That's not really much to scream about. And we've established he's not even in the same book as El Santo in terms of accomplishments.

Big Daddy moved the needle for the fifth position wrestling country. Undertaker moved the needle for wrestling gimmicks across the globe and changed wrestling forever.

Also, if you think Taker is highly overrated, why is he your avatar? I get that overrated doesn't mean you dislike him, but why do you want a guy you consider overrated on all of your posts?

Sorry but you're wrong. Taker is the last of gimmick wrestlers, he really didn't change anything. He pretty much killed the genera. The only guy that made head way was "his brother". No other supernatural characters ever made it big. Guys who were dark, were already represented by the likes of the Great Muta. Gimmick wrestling was around forever. Taker really didn't move the needle and I'll never give him credit for something he didn't do.

Secondly, I respect Taker's work that's why he's in my avy, doesn't mean I can't have honest opinions about the guy. Knowing he's overrated doesn't change the fact I respect the man.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

Sorry but you're wrong. Taker is the last of gimmick wrestlers, he really didn't change anything. He pretty much killed the genera. The only guy that made head way was "his brother". No other supernatural characters ever made it big. Guys who were dark, were already represented by the likes of the Great Muta. Gimmick wrestling was around forever. Taker really didn't move the needle and I'll never give him credit for something he didn't do.

Secondly, I respect Taker's work that's why he's in my avy, doesn't mean I can't have honest opinions about the guy. Knowing he's overrated doesn't change the fact I respect the man.

Here's the thing though: Muta and Taker are on different scales of the spectrum. While Muta was dark, he never reached the levels of gothic that Undertaker did. Biker years aside, Undertaker has always had a firm grasp of the mystique of the character, whilst retaining the gothic edge.

Also, he isn't the last of the gimmick wrestlers and to suggest so is silly.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Here's the thing though: Muta and Taker are on different scales of the spectrum. While Muta was dark, he never reached the levels of gothic that Undertaker did. Biker years aside, Undertaker has always had a firm grasp of the mystique of the character, whilst retaining the gothic edge.

Also, he isn't the last of the gimmick wrestlers and to suggest so is silly.

The last of his kind, I probably worded that wrong. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But Papa Shango and dark mystical charters where not out of the norm. And muta does fall into that category btw, especially in Japan. That said I'm not taking anything away from him, just saying.

But it really never expanded past him.

 

[Diet Soda]

If I may talk about what would happen if these two actually wrestled, it is clear that Taker wins.

Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, Mabel, Khali, Gonzalez (okay, maybe not so much Gonzalez, but still). Taker has had no problem with big guys throughout his career, both in and out of his prime(s), whilst Mr. Crabtree made a living out of squashing the local greengrocer or window cleaner.

Being a Brit, I'm all too aware of Big Daddy's pop culture relevance on our rainy island, (Grandma Soda: "Big Daddy never used a table!") but Taker's reach is/was global, and the reaction to this match-up on this very forum demonstratea that Big Daddy is not big enough to go over the Deadman.

 

[HBsam31]

I get that Big Daddy was a big deal in England, but Taker has wrestled everywhere across the globe. He means far more to the sport of wrestling than Big Daddy, and he was a major player in wrestling most profitable era. I am not even the biggest Undertaker fan that there is, but he has beaten everyone wrestling has to offer, and would do the same to Big Daddy to move to the next round.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

So what I learned from this thread is that Undertaker is not as big of a draw as Hogan, Austin or Cena and that the Queen of England or some other bigwig loved Big Daddy. Guess what, Big Daddy would still lose. Taker is one of the most popular wrestlers on the planet and even if he isn't one of the three men I just mentioned, he is pretty damn close. Due to his longevity and his gimmick, he has become one of the pillars of the WWE and someone whose name instantaneously pops into your mind when you mention the WWE.

Big Daddy is the most popular wrestler in a country where pro wrestling isn't as popular as it is in the US, Japan or even Mexico. Wrestling just isn't that popular in the UK for its biggest star to take down an American wrestler that is a household name all around the world. Even if this match was booked by British bookers, I think they would book Undertaker to win, he is just that big a star. It is not as if Daddy deserves to lose to every American wrestler, he should probably win against midcarders, but against Taker, he should go down in a hard fought match.

Also, this match is in Arizona, where no one knows who Big Daddy is. So the decision should be rather, Easy! Easy! Easy!.

 

[Tastycles]

If we're talking about drawing power, this goes to Taker and it's not even close. One reason: there aren't as many people in England. No Undertaker wasn't a top draw in America, but a second level draw in America is going to draw more people than a top draw in England, especially with the time period Undertaker performed in.

There have never been double figures of millions of people watching wrestling in the USA to see a programme headlined by Undertaker, this happened every single week in the UK. Wrestling here isn't popular anymore, but there was a time when a far bigger swathe of the population here were interested in it. Big Daddy was drawing more fans in on a weekly basis in 1984 than Hulk Hogan was in a country with at least 6 times the population. You're right to say this is a boring argument, but if it's boring, at least get it right without making ridiculous points that have no bearing on the amount of people actually watching wrestling.

Big Daddy carried a hugely successful wrestling company for a very long time, something that Taker has never been entrusted with. By virtue of the fact that Taker will win anyway and Big Daddy had a far more reaching influence and inspiration factor I'm going for Big Daddy.