WCW Region, Phoenix Subregion, First Round:(15)Big Daddy vs. (18)Jushin Thunder Liger

Discussion in 'WCW Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 28, 2014.

?

Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Big Daddy

  2. Jushin Thunder Liger

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    17,857
    Likes Received:
    3,359
    This is a first round match in the International Region, Los Angeles Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WCW Rules. It will be held at the US Airways Center in Phoenix, Arizona.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #15. Big Daddy

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #18. Jushin Thunder Liger



    Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    I feel that Big Daddy is underrated in this tournament. Sure, England isn't exactly the biggest country but that shouldn't take away from the fact that Big Daddy was a massive draw. So big a draw that the pro wrestling scene in the country hasn't seen the heights that it did when the man passed away. The man had a huge legacy, that can't be denied. Even if the country he worked didn't have as many people as other countries. His legend was even revered by the Queen herself, who named Big Daddy among her favorite performers. Emperor Akihito probably does not share the same sentiment on Jushin Liger.

    Speaking of Liger he was treated more like a novelty than a major draw. He was regarded as the best light heavyweight to come out of Japan, but he was never booked to beat any big name heavyweight. He lost to the likes of Great Muta numerous times. He hardly ever, if never, worked against Vader or Brody or Hansen... or even Inoki or Hashimoto... because he would have been destroyed. The same way most little guys are against big heavyweights. And it would have been the same way against Big Daddy.

    I'll take the greatest wrestler England has ever had over a great light heavyweight that never showed he could defeat the giants.

    Sorry Liger. Bad draw. Vote Big Daddy.
     
    #2
  3. Bythedockofthebay

    Bythedockofthebay Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    59
    I hate this draw but realistically there is no way that Liger can win this. For one Big Daddy is an amazing talent who is one of the most over people in the history of his country, but that's not the reason I'm picking Big Daddy here.

    I'm picking big daddy because Liger couldn't beat guys like him. When Liger was against big men he lost, and to have him against a man the size of Big Daddy makes me think that Liger would have little to no chance here.

    Big Daddy Splash down on Liger for the one two three
     
    #3
  4. deem

    deem Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    48
    +10000 to everyone. I'm British and I dislike Big Daddy. I don't like him being in this tournament as it's just not possible to compare him with whomever he faces - he never had anything close to the level of competition they did.

    You book him against Dynamite Kid in his prime though (the first guy that worked in the UK that I could compare to Liger) - the match would be laughed out the building and Daddy would never leave his feet. Easy~! Easy~! Easy~!

    Liger is criminally overrated in this tournament imo. He's incredible, yeah, but the entire reason for his dominance is the segregated weight classes in Japan. One of the greatest lightweights =/= one of the greatest wrestlers. Find me a match where he beats an established big man and I'll consider putting him over. I don't think it exists. There is no way Big Daddy is entered in this tournament, only to tarnish his gigantic legacy by losing to a guy smaller than he has ever lost to. Nor is it the place for Liger to pick up his first meaningful win against a giant.

    It's over. Daddy wins but he won't be getting past Undertaker in the next.
     
    #4
  5. RedRegan1005

    RedRegan1005 Leading A Revolution

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    36
    No disrespect to Liger, but he doesn't stand a chance here. I don't car how fast he is or how many flips he can do, he won't be taking a guy like Big Daddy down, it would look ridiculous. The other thing that bugs me about Liger is he is another big Japanese Wrestling Star, who flopped big time anywhere outside of Japan. He's going to get thrown to the mat and squashed like a bug by Big Daddy! 1-2-3 Big Daddy wins my Vote!
     
    #5
  6. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,579
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Big Daddy I guess. This is the least interesting match to me so far. I know some of our British posters are all about Big Daddy. I just don't see it. I'll give him a first round vote just because of the size advantage. Liger's style isn't going to work too well against Daddy. Daddy moves on but the reward is getting squashed by Taker in the next round.
     
    #6
  7. ServantofTwilight

    ServantofTwilight Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    54
    I am going to have to disagree with the majority here. Every year it seems that Ligar is given no respect. Every year he seems to fall to wrestlers he should run circles around and it is usually do to size.

    First, while I will not say that Ligar often defeated larger men he did have wins over some including Hase and Muta. He did indeed get in the ring with the likes of Vadar, Hansan, Choshu, Savage and Inoki( admittedly mainly in tag matches). He was an innovative wrestler who could pull wins out of nowhere.

    Now, Big Daddy deserves all the respect he gets but...like Lawler he was a big fish in a small pond. Unlike Lawler he never left his pond. While he did dominate wrestling in England he never left like all the stars of the 70s and 80s did in other countries. Add to that the fact that major stars rarely came to England and it is tough to rank Daddy up with other greats of the time. Including Ligar.

    It is true that if Daddy hits a big power move it will be done but we( or you ) are forgetting that Daddy was vulnerable to smaller men. One of his biggest foes( and not in size ) was a skinny little masked guy named Kendo Nagasaki. Nagasaki was able to pin Daddy. In England.

    [YOUTUBE]vm3t5IeczZI[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]I5b1fjsIEIk[/YOUTUBE]

    Add to it that Ligar came often to America while Daddy didn't and I believe Ligar has this match.
     
    #7
    jmt225 likes this.
  8. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,491
    Likes Received:
    576
    I wanted to vote Liger, but I just can't see it. Big Daddy would eventually get a hold of him and the power would be too much for Liger. I don't think there is too much Liger could throw at him that would be able to keep him down for a three count. Big Daddy wins.
     
    #8
  9. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    943
    Liger does a lot of flippy flips. I don't know about you guys, but I love flippy flips. He can flippy flip with the best of them, Big Daddy never did a flippy flip in his life. Actually, I don't know if flippy flipped or not, I've always had colored T.V Either way, Liger wins with a back flip.
     
    #9
  10. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,911
    Likes Received:
    1,516
    As if! Jushin Liger beat Shawn Michaels one year. Shawn Michaels. Shawn Michaels.

    Big Daddy would win this because he's better. A bigger draw in his home country, on a wrestling show that although never went international, did launch several international stars. They still show Big Daddy matches in the nXt centre to show people how to work the crowd.

    Liger is a phenomenal talent, but is he likely to lose here.

    The Kendo Nagasaki videos are amusing, but what it misses is the 700 times that Big Daddy beat Kendo Nagasaki. That being said, the only thing that Nagasaki has in common with Liger is that they are both 'Japanese'. Nagasaki was 6'2" and 230lbs. That's not a small man. Daddy wins.
     
    #10
  11. ServantofTwilight

    ServantofTwilight Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    54
    I'll give you that one.

    No he is not.

    Which puts us back to my Lawler comment. Or Von Erich if you like. The Armstrongs. All were big on their home turf but no one will argue they should go far in these tournaments.

    Only if people vote incorrectly.

    Interesting number. Where did you get it? Nagasaki rarely lost to Big Daddy and had a winning record against him. At best count he was 50-14 against Daddy. There was an archive site that had their matches but it is now down. I did find this...

    http://www.wrestling-titles.com/europe/uk/britainhistory.html

    which says...

    Beat Nagasaki 700 times huh?

    Big Daddy was a novelty act that was huge with children and old women. He brought in viewers but it was others who did all the work. Liger would kill him.
     
    #11
  12. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    1,060
    Preference? Liger.


    Issue I have here is though I prefer Liger, I just cannot justify voting for him over Big Daddy. I see no way that any version of Liger can handle someone the size of Big Daddy in a singles match. Maybe if this were a tag bout & Liger had help chopping down the tree, but alone- Liger isnt winning this one. Liger Bomb is a non factor as would be the Brainbuster or even the CTB. In a match against someone closer to his weight- Liger has a proven record. Against someone the size of Big Daddy- his moves are rendered useless.

    Big Daddy gets this one done.
     
    #12
  13. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,911
    Likes Received:
    1,516
    If you can't see the obvious bias in the source you quoted, there is literally no point in having this conversation with you.
     
    #13
  14. ServantofTwilight

    ServantofTwilight Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    54
    If you watch the videos I posted on the first page you will see Big Daddy get beat twice by a smaller wrestler who defeated him with an open hand chop. I think Liger can throw an open hand chop.

    Here is a write up on the Author and his book.

    And his creds...
    My guess there is no more bias then you or I have. Good cop out answer.
     
    #14
  15. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    1,060
    You can show me a video of Batman doing the Mexican hat dance for all I care, but it wont change the outcome of this match. If you think that someone is going over in a legends tournament with an overhand chop, then you have no idea how things are booked.


    Sure, Liger can chop. Problem is that his 'magical' chopping abilities will not help him against someone like Big Daddy. I have already said I like Liger better, but against someone the size of his opponent- he has nothing that will get the job done. If you expect me to believe that he goes over Daddy without being able to use his 3 most devastating finishers- you are nuts.


    A chop is not taking down Big Daddy in a legends tourament- Liger would be booked to lose this match.


    Its easy, easy.
     
    #15
  16. ServantofTwilight

    ServantofTwilight Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    54
    You know, maybe I really am that stupid. Two different posters have basically said that I don't know how things are. Why am I bothering. I was just going to crawl away but then I thought...what a learning opportunity. Maybe I should reply and allow Tastycles and Nightmare to help me along. Why not.

    I don't see the bias. It was written by an award winning british author who traced the history of british wrestling. He says that Crabtrees brother was his promoter; that Crabtree was in his forties and out of shape when he started the Big Daddy persona. From what I have read, that's all true.

    Now I had read the Nagasaki info before. I knew he was a tough opponent for Daddy. And since the only matches that I could find where all Nagasaki wins or draws, I think the author was correct again.

    So this brings us to his big singles matches. Seeing is believing so I found the match with Giant Haystacks.

    [YOUTUBE]0DSro4l_0cE[/YOUTUBE]

    So this big grudge match lasted about 2:45, consisted of the two hugging each other and running into each other and had no wrestling holds at all. Lets see what Mr. Lister wrote...

    Seems true to me. I still fail to see how what I discovered is biased or untrue. Weird.

    I don't understand wrestling and booking. Magic chop. Ok.

    Many times in tornement situations results are gotten without signature moves. Bret hart won the King of the Ring without the Sharpshooter. Savage used his elbowdrop two out of four matches to win the title. JYD defeated savage in the Wrestling Classic with a backdrop out of the ring. To suggest that Liger could not go over the same way is unreasonable. He could hit a moonsault or a star press. He could hit his rolling koppu kick or his shotei chop. As shown Big Daddy is vulnerable to chops, whether you like it or not. Just because he can't use the Ligerbomb or the LigerDriver is irrelevant.

    Now, in your first post you said Liger could not win because of Big Daddys size. Now you say he can't win because of booking. Way to stay consistent.

    Now, I am no wrestling booker but I will take a stab at what you are saying.

    Match takes place at Phoenix, Arizona and is in the WCW region so we must assume it is booked by WCW. That is always the argument from you guys who use booking; HHH or Hogan wouldn't be booked to lose in the WWE region etc etc.

    So we have a old, out of shape, immobile wrestler who has never left England to compete anywhere else, who is unknown to the American crowd. Who not only had to cross the Atlantic but also had to cross country.

    He is taking on a agile, innovative wrestler who has competed in Canada, USA, Mexico and Japan. He has worked for WCW in the past, has held a championship in WCW, has competed at and won matches at WCW PPVs and( although he lost ) wrestled the first match ever on Monday Nitro.

    And you are saying that the unknown, fat british wrestler would be booked over a former WCW employee and champion.

    Guess I don't get booking.
     
    #16
    Vega likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"