WCW Region, Chicago Region, First Round: (16) Booker T vs. (17) Christian

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

When exactly did TNA become WCW? I'm glad Christian had success in TNA but the fact remains he was never in WCW. Booker T was a main eventer and 5 time WCW champion (4 reigns in WCW, 1 in WWE during the Invasion). TNA even at its highest point has never had better ratings then WCW did when it was at its lowest.

So your argument is that because WCW did better ratings at that period then TNA ever did it's automatically better? What a load of bull, WCW did good ratings despite the product being awful due to the the time slot it had and wrestling still being a mainstream attraction. To suggest that the show that had a pinata on a pole match while Ed Ferrara impersonated a man with bells pallsy on commentary was better then Christians run in TNA is ridiculous.

There's also the fact that Booker T won world titles in WCW while Vince Russo was booking the show. The man treated titles like props and nothing more. The fact that booker T lost the World title to Vince Russo shows how much credibility the title had lost during Bookers reign at the top of WCW.

There's also one major fact that no Christian supporter can overcome. Booker T is 9-2-1 against Christian in singles matches. Even in TNA when Booker T was in his mid 40s and in the twilight of his career, he beat a prime Christian clean.

You forgot the fact that in TNA Christian was on his way out when he lost to Booker so naturally he was never going to win in his last few matches seeing as he didn't need the rub while Booker T did.
Besides in this tournament were supposed to judge it based on both men in their prime meaning win/loss records don't mean shit.

 

[Big Sexy]

My point was he walked into a new company and became the world champion, by beating the founder of the company no less.

He walked into TNA when it was at a low point in terms of ratings and talent (lower then WCW ever was) and he won the same title that guys like Rhino and Raven had recently held. As soon as TNA started getting more talent (Kurt Angle etc..) Christian moved down the card and didn't win the title again.

Yes Booker's beaten Christian more times than Christian's beaten Booker, but that still means Christian can win. Just because you've scored ten goals in a row doesn't mean you can do eleven

Booker hasn't just beaten Christian in the win/loss column, he has dominated him. Booker is the more accomplished of the two, he has a history of beating Christian, and he is on his home turf. It would be a close match but Booker would definitely get the victory.

 

[Big Sexy]

So your argument is that because WCW did better ratings at that period then TNA ever did it's automatically better?

No it was better because the overall talent was still better then TNA during Christians title runs. You want to know who else was winning and having legitimate reigns with the NWA title around the time Christian had it? Rhino, Raven, and Abyss. Man he really had some great company there

What a load of bull, WCW did good ratings despite the product being awful due to the the time slot it had and wrestling still being a mainstream attraction.

You mean the time slot that had it going head to head with RAW? Put TNA head to head with RAW now or back in 2006-2007 and see how much it gets dominated and how much lower its ratings get.

There's also the fact that Booker T won world titles in WCW while Vince Russo was booking the show. The man treated titles like props and nothing more. The fact that booker T lost the World title to Vince Russo shows how much credibility the title had lost during Bookers reign at the top of WCW.

Vince Russo booked the Attitude era in WWE as well. Does that mean that we should discredit every title reign from that era? I also remember Triple H losing the WWE title to Vince McMahon in 1999. If Booker gets credit taken away then so should every single person who was holding the WWE title around that time.

You forgot the fact that in TNA Christian was on his way out when he lost to Booker so naturally he was never going to win in his last few matches seeing as he didn't need the rub while Booker T did.

This is a kayfabe tournament. Backstage things and contract issues don't come into play. Christian was beat clean by Booker T in TNA and that's all that matters.

Besides in this tournament were supposed to judge it based on both men in their prime meaning win/loss records don't mean shit.

So what's Christians prime exactly? If it's his first couple years in TNA then Booker T's WCW main event run trumps that. If it's his recent feud with Randy Orton where he only had one DQ win and held the WWE title for a total of 30 days, then Booker T's 126 day reign as world champion in WWE trumps that. Christian loses regardless of your argument.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

No it was better because the overall talent was still better then TNA during Christians title runs. You want to know who else was winning and having legitimate reigns with the NWA title around the time Christian had it? Rhino, Raven, and Abyss. Man he really had some great company there

You also left out Sting, Joe, Styles, Angle and Jarrett. I think that's overall better talent then Scott Steiner(who Christian also faced and beat while he was in TNA) who Booker T faced in a "straight jacket steel cage match" at superbrawl 2000, well gee i wonder why no promotion does that gimmick match anymore.
Fact is out of the 4 WCW titles he won in WCW 3 of them were against either Jeff Jarrett or Scott Steiner who Christian also had feuds with in TNA. Christian had much better competition in TNA with all the guys i mentioned above while Booker T had Luger, Nash, Steiner and Jarrett.

You mean the time slot that had it going head to head with RAW? Put TNA head to head with RAW now or back in 2006-2007 and see how much it gets dominated and how much lower its ratings get.

Like i said ratings don't necesairily mean top quality. Ring of honor has had 4 5 star rated matches in it's time with a tiny fanbase while WCW during Booker's title reigns had tons of swerves, stupid gimmick matches, a man as womens champion and quick title changes with a die hard fanbase who had been there during it's best years. But of course because the ratings were better that means WCW must be better right?

Vince Russo booked the Attitude era in WWE as well. Does that mean that we should discredit every title reign from that era?

Not at all. In WWF Russo had McMahon to filter all his shit ideas. Vince always had the final say on what happened. On WCW when Russo had free reign he made a mess of things and that's me putting it nicely.

I also remember Triple H losing the WWE title to Vince McMahon in 1999. If Booker gets credit taken away then so should every single person who was holding the WWE title around that time.

The difference is though is that the WWF had guys like Triple H, Stone Cold, The Rock etc, legit top guys to keep the title credible. On WCW Booker only got a chance after all the top guys left. His competition was much worse with Jarrett, Steiner and Nash. Hell Russo wanted to put the title on Fucking Tank Abbot of all people. Fact is Booker only won the WCW title when there was no one else to challenge for it. Your kidding yourself if you think he was going to get near it while Hogan, Sting and Goldberg were there.

This is a kayfabe tournament. Backstage things and contract issues don't come into play. Christian was beat clean by Booker T in TNA and that's all that matters.

Triple H has lost clean to Shelton Benjamin and Jim Ross. Does that mean they would advance in the tournament ahead of him too?
Hell Undertaker has lost to Ken Kennedy and A-Train. Stone Cold has lost to William Regal. Like i said win loss records mean shit.

So what's Christians prime exactly? If it's his first couple years in TNA then Booker T's WCW main event run trumps that. If it's his recent feud with Randy Orton where he only had one DQ win and held the WWE title for a total of 30 days, then Booker T's 126 day reign as world champion in WWE trumps that. Christian loses regardless of your argument.

No he doesn't. Mainly because all of Booker T's WCW title reigns were pure garbage. Christian's run in TNA was much better. He faced Sting, Joe, Styles and Angle. Christian even faced Jarrett and Steiner who Booker won 4 of his titles against. So yes Christians run in TNA was much better and yes Christian would beat Booker T.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

Christian spen the better part of his career making other people look better(I'll even include Edge in that comment). Booker T spent YEARS at main event level. Booker T has been in big time WRESTLEMANIA matches. Most importantly, Wrestlemania Singles matches.

Booker over Christian in an entertaining match. Book End through a table.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

Christian spen the better part of his career making other people look better(I'll even include Edge in that comment). Booker T spent YEARS at main event level. Booker T has been in big time WRESTLEMANIA matches. Most importantly, Wrestlemania Singles matches.

Big time Wrestlemania singles matches? Let's have a look at Booker T's wrestlemania record.
Mania 18 - Lost to Edge
Mania 19 - Lost to Triple H
Mania 20 - Retained the Tag titles with RVD
Mania 22 - Lost to The Boogyman
Mania 23 - Lost in the money in the bank ladder match

So Booker T has never won a singles match at Wrestlemania making your argument redundant.

Oh and one other thing

Booker over Christian in an entertaining match. Book End through a table.

Seeing as the match is a straight up singles match then Christian would win by DQ seeing as Booker T used a table.

 

[Natural Selection]

Well now that all the brackets are fucked up or fixed this has to be Booker in a landslide. Kills me to say but Christian doesn't go over Booker in WCW.

Finish: Scissor kick at the 20 minute mark 1-2-3 break out the spinaroonie

Seeing as the match is a straight up singles match then Christian would win by DQ seeing as Booker T used a table.

Was under ECW rules when he said that.

 

[stillboy21]

In case this ends as a tie I just want to throw my vote in here. I'm going with Captain Charisma in this one. They are both very equal wrestlers in my book but I just think that Christian is crafty enough to come out on this one.

 

[Big Sexy]

You also left out Sting, Joe, Styles, Angle and Jarrett. I think that's overall better talent then Scott Steiner(who Christian also faced and beat while he was in TNA) who Booker T faced in a "straight jacket steel cage match" at superbrawl 2000, well gee i wonder why no promotion does that gimmick match anymore.
Fact is out of the 4 WCW titles he won in WCW 3 of them were against either Jeff Jarrett or Scott Steiner who Christian also had feuds with in TNA. Christian had much better competition in TNA with all the guys i mentioned above while Booker T had Luger, Nash, Steiner and Jarrett.

I didn't say he didn't have some competition, I was just pointing out all of the shit guys that were also in the main event. And Booker 100% had tougher competition. They both had to deal with Sting and Jarrett, but Booker had to deal with younger and more in their prime versions. And there is absolutely no way in hell that Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, and Kurt Angle trumps Bill Goldberg, Kevin Nash, a prime Scott Steiner, Bret Hart, and Lex Luger.

Like i said ratings don't necesairily mean top quality. Ring of honor has had 4 5 star rated matches in it's time with a tiny fanbase while WCW during Booker's title reigns had tons of swerves, stupid gimmick matches, a man as womens champion and quick title changes with a die hard fanbase who had been there during it's best years. But of course because the ratings were better that means WCW must be better right?

Since when do 5 star matches decide whether or not a company is successful? I also find it hilarious that you talk about tons of swerves and stupid gimmick matches like TNA has none of it. TNA has just as much of that as the last couple years of WCW did. I mean Russo was one of TNA's top writers starting in 2006.

Not at all. In WWF Russo had McMahon to filter all his shit ideas. Vince always had the final say on what happened. On WCW when Russo had free reign he made a mess of things and that's me putting it nicely.

And in WCW Vince Russo was fired in early 2000 (before Booker had won the title). When he was rehired he no longer had final say. He worked with Bischoff and other members of creative with ideas.

The difference is though is that the WWF had guys like Triple H, Stone Cold, The Rock etc, legit top guys to keep the title credible. On WCW Booker only got a chance after all the top guys left. His competition was much worse with Jarrett, Steiner and Nash. Hell Russo wanted to put the title on Fucking Tank Abbot of all people. Fact is Booker only won the WCW title when there was no one else to challenge for it. Your kidding yourself if you think he was going to get near it while Hogan, Sting and Goldberg were there.

Actually Goldberg and Sting were both still in WCW and wrestling actively when Booker started to win his multiple WCW titles. It's nice to know you have no clue what you're talking about. Booker even held victories over Sting, Goldberg, Bret Hart, and Lex Luger.

Triple H has lost clean to Shelton Benjamin and Jim Ross. Does that mean they would advance in the tournament ahead of him too?
Hell Undertaker has lost to Ken Kennedy and A-Train. Stone Cold has lost to William Regal. Like i said win loss records mean shit.

In a small sample size they mean shit. 12 one on one matches is a large sample size and Booker has dominated Christian.

No he doesn't. Mainly because all of Booker T's WCW title reigns were pure garbage. Christian's run in TNA was much better. He faced Sting, Joe, Styles and Angle. Christian even faced Jarrett and Steiner who Booker won 4 of his titles against. So yes Christians run in TNA was much better and yes Christian would beat Booker T.

TNA was also a smaller company with less talent. I'll take Booker's 4 reigns at a bigger scale company over Christians couple reigns in TNA. I'll take Booker's victories over younger and better versions of Jarrett and Steiner. I'll also take Goldberg, Bret Hart, Lex Luger, and Kevin Nash over Styles, Joe, and Angle. Especially considering Booker T has also beaten Styles, Joe, and Angle.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I didn't say he didn't have some competition, I was just pointing out all of the shit guys that were also in the main event. And Booker 100% had tougher competition. They both had to deal with Sting and Jarrett, but Booker had to deal with younger and more in their prime versions. And there is absolutely no way in hell that Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, and Kurt Angle trumps Bill Goldberg, Kevin Nash, a prime Scott Steiner, Bret Hart, and Lex Luger.

You're kidding, right? I would take Joe, Styles, and Angle in a walk over all those names you just mentioned. Steiner was just a slow steroid-induced freak in the early 2000's and you consider that his prime? Nash and Luger were just shells of themselves and most of Hart's matches in WCW were mediocre. I saw Styles, Joe, and Angle have great matches PPV after PPV so they easily were better than all that competition Booker T had.

 

[Big Sexy]

You're kidding, right? I would take Joe, Styles, and Angle in a walk over all those names you just mentioned. Steiner was just a slow steroid-induced freak in the early 2000's and you consider that his prime? Nash and Luger were just shells of themselves and most of Hart's matches in WCW were mediocre. I saw Styles, Joe, and Angle have great matches PPV after PPV so they easily were better than all that competition Booker T had.

No I'm not kidding because we aren't talking about who puts on better matches. We are talking about who had better competition aka bigger stars to work with. AJ Styles and Samoa Joe's star power is NOTHING compared to the names of Goldberg, Hart, Nash, and Luger. Kurt Angle is great but not enough to offset the star power even late WCW had. Steiner have been a steroid-induced freak but his star power then was bigger then it ever was.

 

[Kermit]

This thing is tied, so I guess every written vote counts.

In their prime, Booker T would get my vote here. The region doesn't even matter in particular, because Christian has never been anything more than a glorified upper-midcard player. I just couldn't see Christian going over Booker T in a match during their peeks. I am not well versed in all of their career accomplishments, but that is just how I see it.

 

[Tastycles]

I think this really could go either way, so I voted with my favourite, which is Christian. Both had ok title reigns in Smackdown, and each has been a multiple world champion elsewhere, Christian in TNA and Booker in WCW. I think their multiple reigns are probably tainted for lack of competition, so they really don't weigh up in the scheme of things. Each came from a tag team, and while I think Booker progressed the most in terms of character development from that, it's not enough to hold an edge.

 

[Tastycles]

Ok, another draw. Here's the written votes score:

Booker T: IHW, Big Sexy, People's_champ, Echelon, Windowds XP, Whopperle, Pyro180, The Brain, Ming, [Heel] Green Ranger, H.A.M., Davi323, TyndallEffect95, The_Sharpshooter, Big Daddy Awesome, Kermit for a total of 16 written votes


Christian: Sareos, stblink, Johnny Scumm, Pancake, Alex, AnvilForever, thatotherguy, pumpkinking8987, klunderbunker, The Gribbler, Triple Naitch, Christian, Big Nick Dudley, Rojan, CrissSpades, Jack-Hammer, ., Captain Morgan freeman, stillboy21, Little Jerry Lawler, Tastycles for a total of 21 written votes

Christian wins 21-16

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Because it's close, I'll post my thoughts: Booker T wins this one solidly, even though I personally enjoy Christian's work more. Booker T was a bigger star, a legitimate Main Event guy, and has feuded with some of the best ever. Christian for most of his career has been a midcard talent who's only Main Event runs were in a secondary organization and a brief run in the WWE.

I love Captain Charisma, but Booker T is the rightful winner. Vote for Booker T.

 

[JGlass]

I didn't get the chance to vote in this one, wish I did, as I would have been the vote that put Booker T through to the next round.

I like Christian, but the fact of the matter is that Booker T wins in the kayfabe fight. Christian has never been the type of guy that pulls out a win against a top name competitor when the stakes are high. He beat Del Rio for the championship, and then lost just two nights later. He won the belt back not by pinning Randy Orton, but by getting him disqualified, and he lost the belt again shortly thereafter.

Booker T, on the other hand, has been in those positions where he has pinned a big name and pulled off a big win. He beat Nash and Jarrett in WCW for the Heavyweight title, and he walked out of a fatal four way that included Lashley, Batista, and Finlay as the victor and champion.

Booker T has the accomplishments to his name that Christian lacks to put him in a more elite category. Neither are really elite wrestlers, but at least Booker is closer.

 

[Alex]

I didn't get the chance to vote in this one, wish I did, as I would have been the vote that put Booker T through to the next round.

I like Christian, but the fact of the matter is that Booker T wins in the kayfabe fight. Christian has never been the type of guy that pulls out a win against a top name competitor when the stakes are high. He beat Del Rio for the championship, and then lost just two nights later. He won the belt back not by pinning Randy Orton, but by getting him disqualified, and he lost the belt again shortly thereafter.

Booker T, on the other hand, has been in those positions where he has pinned a big name and pulled off a big win. He beat Nash and Jarrett in WCW for the Heavyweight title, and he walked out of a fatal four way that included Lashley, Batista, and Finlay as the victor and champion.

Booker T has the accomplishments to his name that Christian lacks to put him in a more elite category. Neither are really elite wrestlers, but at least Booker is closer.

Christian has beaten Jeff Jarrett, Kurt Angle, Sting, Abyss and Samoa Joe and when you match those against the Booker T's oppenents Christian's are overall better.

 

[JGlass]

Christian has beaten Jeff Jarrett, Kurt Angle, Sting, Abyss and Samoa Joe and when you match those against the Booker T's oppenents Christian's are overall better.

Sting was way past his prime, and Abyss is hardly better than Kevin Nash. In fact, the only one of those guys that were better than Keivn Nash was in 2000, when he was still being booked as dominant (and the guy that ended Goldberg's streak). Booker T also had high stake victories over Benoit and John Cena.

Oh, and he beat Christian at The Great American Bash 2005.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I've already cast my well worded written vote in the thread but I shall re-cast, seeing as we've came to a tie.

My vote goes to Christian. Once again, I find him much more entertaining than Booker T. I find his in-ring work to be much more diverse, entertaining and effective than that of Booker T's. When you compare their careers, as Booker T was holding the floundering WCW Championship, Christian was one-half of WWE's most discussed tag teams with his storyline brother (at the time) Edge. Christian has gone on to achieve success, to be fair, although I love "Captain Charisma" I do understand why some may find him somewhat drab. However, he is kind of a preferred taste, where as Booker T is more, meh.

Whether it be in the ECW region, WWE region, WCW region or International my vote shall remain uncontested. Christian to me is the better competitor, they have faced, with Christian coming out on the losing side, however when you compare their spans within TNA I find it interesting that while both were in the supposed "lesser" company, it saw Christian as the more push worthy performer. He'd always be in the limelight and would always be in a top feud, Booker was used poorly in TNA and if it wasn't for him playing background figure in the Main Event Mafia he'd not be remembered at all.

Once again, my vote stand and it is for Christian. If you don't know, now you know... you should have known though, as I already voted for him. And in foresight, it is irrelevant who wins, next round they meet Stone Cold Steve Austin after his squash against Sabu.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

This contest has already been settled but I just read this on the main page, laughed, then figured it was worth sharing.

6) Drew McIntyre and Booker T beat Christian and Mark Henry, when Booker pinned Christian with the Axe Kick.Drew got an excellent reaction and talked about how he loved performing in Scotland, giving a shout out to his parents (who were in the crowd) and talking about how he's gotten drunk all over the world but nothing compares to getting drunk in Glasgow. Fair point. Booker was Drew's mystery partner, great reaction for him also. Longest match so far. Drew and Booker did the Spinarooni after the match

As for Booker's tenure in TNA, does this look like a guy who was there to prove he could be the top guy in a company, or someone who was for the most part there to goof around a bit and beat Christian a couple more times?

Spoiler

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

6) Drew McIntyre and Booker T beat Christian and Mark Henry, when Booker pinned Christian with the Axe Kick.Drew got an excellent reaction and talked about how he loved performing in Scotland, giving a shout out to his parents (who were in the crowd) and talking about how he's gotten drunk all over the world but nothing compares to getting drunk in Glasgow. Fair point. Booker was Drew's mystery partner, great reaction for him also. Longest match so far. Drew and Booker did the Spinarooni after the match.
Drew WON A MATCH? WHAT?
Wait, he didn't get the pin, did he? Makes sense.

 

[Big Sexy]

Christian has beaten Jeff Jarrett, Kurt Angle, Sting, Abyss and Samoa Joe and when you match those against the Booker T's oppenents Christian's are overall better.

Lol. Booker has beaten all of those guys except Abyss (who he never faced). He has also beaten Goldberg, Cena, Steve Austin, Big Show, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, Benoit, Lex Luger, RVD, etc. Booker T's list of victories takes a giant dump on Christians.

however when you compare their spans within TNA I find it interesting that while both were in the supposed "lesser" company, it saw Christian as the more push worthy performer.

Christian was in the prime of his career at that point and Booker T was in his mid 40s and near the end of his. Of course once more former WWE guys like Kurt Angle, Booker, etc. started coming into TNA, Christian became less of a factor in the main event scene.

 

[D-Man]

Anyone that votes for Christian in this poll is a complete and utter, blind fanboy.

Although it would be a great matchup, Booker T has dwarfed Christian in main event accomplishments. And Booker has beaten Christian in numerous, meaningful matches such as the Great American Bash and a few weeks later on Raw.





What more proof do you need? Christian had 2 forgettable world championship runs and Booker had 6 memorable world title runs. There really is no contest here. Love Christian all you want but know the truth... Booker's got his number.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

6 memorable world title runs my ass. Most people remember when he first won the WCW Title and when he won his first world title in WWE and that's it. Christian's two title wins are far from forgettable because I remember everyone complaining when he lost the title the first time and the second one was at Money In The Bank.

 

[D-Man]

6 memorable world title runs my ass. Most people remember when he first won the WCW Title and when he won his first world title in WWE and that's it. Christian's two title wins are far from forgettable because I remember everyone complaining when he lost the title the first time and the second one was at Money In The Bank.

If you're actually going to sit there and call Christian's first, 2 day title run memorable then you should just stop posting in this tournament. What was so memorable about it? The fact that Christian FINALLY won the big one only to have it taken away from him by Randy Orton and turn him heel? That's about as great of a title run as Kane's first championship win. And his second title run was 28 days (or four weeks) long. Should I do backflips over it?? And he's still begging for another world title both on television and probably behind the scenes. Meanwhile, the King Booker gimmick and title run ALONE was enough to piss on any of Christian's main event accolades.

There is no argument here. You're just wrong.