WCW Region, Chicago Region, First Round: (1) Steve Austin vs. (32) Sabu

[Natural Selection]

No one is comparing their careers we are talking this match up. NEW JACK!!!!!Are you fucking serious? New Jack is not tough in the way we are talking. Sure he took the danbury fall, but New Jack is the most dangerous person in wrestling. He doesn't give a fuck about the show. He has literally tried to kill an elderly man in the ring, stabbed an opponet 9 times with intent to kill and legit smacked a 17yr old in the fucking face with a chair. Fuck New Jack, may he burn in HELL This is about the match up and this match up can't be a landslide unless its a popularity contest. It should at least be close. As I already stated I like most everyone else am a HUGE Austin mark, but this isn't about that.In this setting both men in their prime Sabu has far more options at his disposal in this match then Austin does.

 

[Fizzy]

.In this setting both men in their prime Sabu has far more options at his disposal in this match then Austin does.

Like what? Sabu could swing a chair covered in barb wire. So could Austin. Sabu could swing a bat, so could Austin. It's not as if swinging weapons is a fucking art. Anybody with half a fucking brain could hit somebody with a chair. The only thing Sabu had over Austin was his high flying ability. That is the one thing Sabu could do better than Austin and if you think that is the deciding factor, you should just stop posting.

 

[Natural Selection]

Have you ever seen a Sabu match? He did alot more then just swing weapons.

Ok I have to go for a bit, but I do not plan on leaving this alone. Pancake a little help? I'll be back very soon.

 

[Bernkastel]

If this were Rob Van Dam instead of Sabu, then I might decide to push the match in his favor, but this is Sabu... the only thing he has is hardcore, and half the time he couldn't even do that right.

[youtube]vqtzQAV0XiE[/youtube]

Sabu has an entire SERIES of videos dedicated to him by Maffew of Botchamania. What does that say? That Sabu is most entertaining whenever he fucks up a spot. What is the difference between Sabu, the Sandman, and New Jack? Aside from the fact that Sabu isn't a drunk or completely batshit crazy, nothing.

In no universe/company would Sabu ever go over Austin. Doesn't matter if this is ECW, XPW, CZW, or FMW... or any promotion that actually values money.

 

[#hamler]

Sabu is an overrated sack of shit. He represented what most of ECW guys were in that he couldn't get over without his violent ways. Steve Austin is easily one of the best wrestlers ever. Given the ECW background, I can see how someone would think about Sabu going over here. But no, Austin beat the living shit out of the Rock at Wrestlemania 17 which proves he can use a damn chair just as good as anyone. Sabu goes for one of his stupid flippity floppity chair spring board moves and botches. Austin Stuns him with ease to move on to the next round.

 

[pumpkinking8987]

I feel bad for SABU here because if he has ranked just a bit higher i think he could pull off a major upset. I mean who could argue that a #30 seeded Sabu would lose to a #3 seeded Bret Hart. Unfortunately he is up against Stone Cold Steve Austin and the ECW rules wont be as big of an advantage as it could have been.

 

[CH David]

This is almost as dumb as the "Hogan couldn't win a ladder match because he couldn't climb one" argument. Sabu would not, nay should not, go over Austin in any fashion, ever. I don't even need to go into accomplishments or how big a star Austin is.

Big deal if it is in an ECW environment. So Sabu could use chairs and flames and shit. Let's see, Austin completely annihilated the Rock at WrestleMania 17 with a chair. Basically killed the Hardyz and Lita I think the night after or a week later. Sabu would throw everything he had at Austin, maybe even making this fun or scary to watch depending on if/when he botches. A likely bloody Austin pulls the win out after he flips the bird and gives him a Stunner.

Honestly, Austin is familiar with how to work with weapons. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to swing a chair or a 2x4. Austin is the right decision, no matter what.

 

[The Brain]

I don't mind using the regional argument as a tie breaker of sorts in a close match but Steve Austin vs. Sabu is not a close match. Sabu didn't achieve anything outside ECW. You want to argue that this match is in ECW? Was Sabu really a winner in ECW? He has the reputation as one of ECW's greats but I don't believe he was ever the top guy; at least not for any significant time. He dazzled the crowd with his carless ariel moves and reckless abandon but did that lead to many main event wins? I'm sure Sabu could put up a respectable fight but after missing a high risk move he falls victim to the stunner. No shame in that. It's happened to better men than Sabu.

 

[Jaffa]

If one more person says something like Austin broke his neck against Owen Hart i am going to get mad. Austin could barely move after it i think you have all forgotten when Benoit broke Sabu's neck and Sabu walked off. So if this was a battle of toughness like an ECW match would be the winner would be Sabu.

 

[Natural Selection]

If one more person says something like Austin broke his neck against Owen Hart i am going to get mad. Austin could barely move after it i think you have all forgotten when Benoit broke Sabu's neck and Sabu walked off. So if this was a battle of toughness like an ECW match would be the winner would be Sabu.

THANK YOU! I know its Austin we are talking about, would never try to sell Austin short, but if its not even close between these two in this type of match then who/what the hell would be close with Austin?

 

[klunderbunker]

People in here trying to argue that Sabu would have a chance against Austin because this is ECW are either hilarious or delusional. I can't tell which.

I've watched Steve Austin for a very long time and last I've seen, he can get on a mat with almost anyone, he can brawl with literally anyone, and he's had some success in matches with no rules. Let's flash back to say Wrestlemania 13 in one of the hardest hitting brawls ever, or Wrestlemania X7 and him beating the Rock with a chair so many times that even Rocky couldn't get up. Or his wars with Foley, a guy who is considered the king of hardcore.

To even think of arguing that Austin would be in any real danger here is hilarious. Sabu would get in some chair shots and a dive or two, but at the end of the day, his opponent's name is Stone Cold Steve Austin, the biggest star that ECW ever had. This isn't close and it's hilarious that people think it is.

 

[Jaffa]

Let's flash back to say Wrestlemania 13 in one of the hardest hitting brawls ever

Thats right a no dq submission match when Bret Hart beat Stone Cold and why was that? Thats because a submission match plays into Bret Harts corner as does an ECW match play into Sabu's

Wrestlemania X7 and him beating the Rock with a chair so many times that even Rocky couldn't get up.

After 30 minutes of pure fighting Vince McMahon distracted The Rock in which Stone Cold beat a exhausted and defenseless Rock with a steel chair. That is very different to starting a match with Sabu who is even more known then Stone Cold for antics like this.

Or his wars with Foley, a guy who is considered the king of hardcore.

Terry Funk is just as hardcore as Foley even more so perhaps and that was the person who Sabu wrestled when the meat on arm was coming out so he taped it back up with duct tape or whatever the hell it was.

In Summary. Stone Cold was tough no denying that especially in the attitude era. However to compare a tough guy from the attitude era to a tough guy from the original ECW and then saying that Stone Cold is tougher is like saying Bret Hart would beat Jeff Hardy in a ladder match.

 

[IHW]

Like I said before, Austin will win.

A few great arguments can be made about Sabu winning because of the ECW Rules, but when it comes down to it, Austin should win.

Austin has HUGE stardom. You could ask any wrestling fan if they have heard of Austin, and every time they will say yes. This cannot be said about Sabu.

Austin can hold his own in a more hardcore match. Austin has had his fair share of weapon usage. He knows what he is doing in there. He may not be as "extreme" as Sabu, but Sabu has lost to much less extreme styled guys.

Like I said before, Stone Cold is going to take one hell of a beating and should probibly get drunk of his ass before the match, but he will overcome the odd just as he has many times throughout his illustrious career.

People who think Sabu has a chance are wrong.

 

[Natural Selection]

KlunderBunker: Sabu would get in some chair shots and a dive or two, but at the end of the day, his opponent's name is Stone Cold Steve Austin, the biggest star that ECW ever had. This isn't close and it's hilarious that people think it is.

Even if Austin was the biggest star in ECW he didn't want to be, hence why he turned down being the champion. Austin knew exactly what he was doing. He was developing his character because he knew it was destined for bigger things. He might not of known just how big, but he knew bigger then ECW. Because to quote Austin himself "All I see here is a bunch of violent crap" And he was right to some degree that's all it was. Sure Austin is the attitude era, but attitude era hardcore and ECW rules arn't even on the same level. Sabu will put himself in any situation to enhance the story/match. Hes been in barb wire matches, flaming table matches, cage matches, dog collar matches. You name it hes been in it. Austin may be the toughest S.O.B in WWE, but that doesn't make him unbeatable.

Pancake:But you can't lay out a guy with a Stunner when he is willing to jump into barb wire layered ignited table. And then walk out to tell the tale.

BigDaddyAwesome:Any other match and I wouldn't even have started this debate, but you can't disregard Sabu in an ECW rules match thats like disregarding Bret Hart in a submission match.

Austin can hold his own in a more hardcore match. Austin has had his fair share of weapon usage. He knows what he is doing in there. He may not be as "extreme" as Sabu, but Sabu has lost to much less extreme styled guys.

And so has Austin.

 

[klunderbunker]

Thats right a no dq submission match when Bret Hart beat Stone Cold and why was that? Thats because a submission match plays into Bret Harts corner as does an ECW match play into Sabu's



After 30 minutes of pure fighting Vince McMahon distracted The Rock in which Stone Cold beat a exhausted and defenseless Rock with a steel chair. That is very different to starting a match with Sabu who is even more known then Stone Cold for antics like this.



Terry Funk is just as hardcore as Foley even more so perhaps and that was the person who Sabu wrestled when the meat on arm was coming out so he taped it back up with duct tape or whatever the hell it was.

In Summary. Stone Cold was tough no denying that especially in the attitude era. However to compare a tough guy from the attitude era to a tough guy from the original ECW and then saying that Stone Cold is tougher is like saying Bret Hart would beat Jeff Hardy in a ladder match.

OH! You're one of those ECW schnooks that actually thinks that being HARDCORE means you're a good wrestler. My mistake. I actually thought you knew what you were talking about. Actually never mind as you think Sabu would win this. Since I don't feel like breaking down every bit of this, here's what I'll go with:

1. Bret Hart was undefeated in ladder matches and Jeff lost about as many as he won. Having experience in this environment (which Austin does), doesn't mean he's going to win.

2. He taped his arm up while being tied up with barbed wire. This somehow means he's going to win? Why? It sounds to me like he's a freaking moron for getting caught in the stuff in the first place.

3. It amuses me that you think the Attitude Era brawling style, as in the kind that Austin invented and perfected, doesn't compare to ECW brawling. You know, as in the kind that Austin was involved in for years?

The idea that Sabu would have a chance here is hilarious, and you are indeed a moron.

 

[The Brain]

However to compare a tough guy from the attitude era to a tough guy from the original ECW and then saying that Stone Cold is tougher is like saying Bret Hart would beat Jeff Hardy in a ladder match.

I agree. Steve Austin would beat Sabu here and Bret Hart would beat Jeff Hardy in a ladder match.

Even if Austin was the biggest star in ECW he didn't want to be, hence why he turned down being the champion. Austin knew exactly what he was doing. He was developing his character because he knew it was destined for bigger things. He might not of known just how big, but he knew bigger then ECW. Because to quote Austin himself "All I see here is a bunch of violent crap" And he was right to some degree that's all it was. Sure Austin is the attitude era, but attitude era hardcore and ECW rules arn't even on the same level. Sabu will put himself in any situation to enhance the story/match. Hes been in barb wire matches, flaming table matches, cage matches, dog collar matches. You name it hes been in it. Austin may be the toughest S.O.B in WWE, but that doesn't make him unbeatable.

Wait, are you arguing for Sabu or Austin? Austin was offered the title that Sabu was only able to hold for about two months over a long career and turned it down. So Austin didn't even want a title that Sabu was barely able to win. Sounds like even more reason to vote Austin.

 

[Natural Selection]

I am seriously amazed that you would so quickly dismiss as ECW as not wrestling. And exactly how many ECW matches did Austin have in his one year in ECW? Just because it hardcore doesn't mean that you are not a good wrestler, nor does it mean you are a could wrestler. But your still a wrestler. How anyone could dismiss either of these two as not good wrestlers is beyond me.

Much like Austin Sabu didn't need the title. The ECW title was best on guys like Sandman and Raven because it was their end all be all.

 

[Jaffa]

I am an Austin fan however, some of you seem to think he never lost a match at all in his life. Austin can hold his own in matches like this however, so can Sabu as well as the fact that Sabu has wrestled in roughly 10 times more ECW style matches than Austin. If this was Sabu vs Austin anywhere else or Austin vs anyone else in the ECW bracket then Austin would be the winner. However this is Sabu in ECW which means Sabu would win

 

[klunderbunker]

I am seriously amazed that you would so quickly dismiss as ECW as not wrestling. And exactly how many ECW matches did Austin have in his one year in ECW? Just because it hardcore doesn't mean that you are not a good wrestler, nor does it mean you are a could wrestler. But your still a wrestler. How anyone could dismiss either of these two as not good wrestlers is beyond me.

Much like Austin Sabu didn't need the title. The ECW title was best on guys like Sandman and Raven because it was their end all be all.

Oh it was wrestling....sometimes. Really low level wrestling a lot of the time and in the time that Sabu went to the mainstream company he lasted all of two months before he realized the table stuff didn't work and he went back to ECW whereas Austin became the hottest star of all time, but I digress.

You seem to think that just because Sabu was in ECW when it was hardcore and Austin was in the WWF that it gives Sabu an edge in this. Alright, fine. Let's say that Sabu is a better brawler. Can Sabu mat wrestle? Austin can. Submissions? Austin can. Swing a chair? Austin can do that too. Use a move that doesn't take more than ten seconds to hit? Austin can. At the end of the day, Austin was a complete wrestler whereas Sabu was a high flier that could use tables and chairs. Austin is also an incredibly smart wrestler who would know better than to play Sabu's game. Sabu has one chance in this and that's to use his weapons perfectly. If Austin is completely stupid (which he isn't) and goes head on at Sabu (which he could) and if Sabu is absolutely perfect (which the king of botching won't be), then maybe Sabu will have a chance. However, Austin is intelligent, wouldn't go into a full on brawl with Sabu, and Sabu will screw up because he almost always does, and Austin will win.

 

[The Crock]

I am seriously amazed that you would so quickly dismiss as ECW as not wrestling. And exactly how many ECW matches did Austin have in his one year in ECW? Just because it hardcore doesn't mean that you are not a good wrestler, nor does it mean you are a could wrestler. But your still a wrestler. How anyone could dismiss either of these two as not good wrestlers is beyond me.

Much like Austin Sabu didn't need the title. The ECW title was best on guys like Sandman and Raven because it was their end all be all.

Most of ECW's performers were simply not good wrestlers. Actually, most of them were absolute trash in the ring. This was, of course, covered up by the use of weapons and the whole "hardcore" gimmick. Anybody can jump through a table, off a scaffold, off a balcony, and so on. That takes absolutely no talent, all it takes is a bit of luck. Sabu was the king of that. Sabu covers up the flaws in his ability -- albeit poorly, as the guy botches every other move -- by doing some absolutely ridiculous stuff. The fact that someone would actually go so far as to call him a good wrestler -- much less putting him next to arguably the greatest wrestler ever -- astounds me.

The ECW environment won't do a thing for Sabu. Any moron can go in with reckless abandonment and swing away; it's not hard to duplicate the ECW style. Couple that with Austin's, you know, actual ability in the ring, and it's clear who the better man is.

 

[Jaffa]

At the end of the day, Austin was a complete wrestler whereas Sabu was a high flier that could use tables and chairs.

Cause that's not what people in ECW did right. You do realise that if this was WWE nobody would be arguing with you.

 

[Bernkastel]

Are people really trying to argue this crap? Sabu is awful; he regularly botches his own moves on a regular basis. Something is seriously wrong when a wrestler has to wrap his entire body in barbed wire, then jump onto an opponent through a table in order for fans to actually care. That type of insanity is on par with this...

[youtube]jalO5ZWSNx8[/youtube]

The weed eater would be the type of over the top spot that Sabu would do; that people would only remember for the violence. And people call Jeff Hardy a spot monkey? Sabu's spots make Hardy's look like rest holds.

There is no way to justify Sabu going over Austin; there's just not. It's like saying that Superman = Austin would lose to Aquaman = Sabu.

 

[Jaffa]

It's like saying that Superman = Austin would lose to Aquaman = Sabu.

Yes but with that analogy the people who needed the superhero would be under water. Which meant that Aquaman would be better then Superman.

 

[Natural Selection]

I feel like I'm debating this with people who know nothing of ECW or Sabu. Sabu can mat wrestle, he can do submissions, and use moves that take less then 10 seconds to set up. Albeit those aren't the types of matches he made his name with he can still do it, its not like Austin made his name with his pure wrestling ability. We seem to be forgetting he was trained by Ed Farhat (The Sheik) and while some consider him the hardcore pioneer for the pencil and fireball the man was no slouch between the ropes(Neither is Sabu) in fact hes a WWE HOFer.

A weed whacker? That's some New Jack shit not Sabu.

It's like saying that Superman = Austin would lose to Aquaman = Sabu.

Is he fighting him in water?Oh he is, that kind of favors Aquaman.

 

[The Brain]

I feel like I'm debating this with people who know nothing of ECW or Sabu. Sabu can mat wrestle, he can do submissions, and use moves that take less then 10 seconds to set up. Albeit those aren't the types of matches he made his name with he can still do it, its not like Austin made his name with his pure wrestling ability. We seem to be forgetting he was trained by Ed Farhat (The Sheik) and while some consider him the hardcore pioneer for the pencil and fireball the man was no slouch between the ropes(Neither is Sabu) in fact hes a WWE HOFer.

Sabu's signature moves take a long time to set up and he frequently misses them. Austin is not going to lay on a table and wait for Sabu to set up his chair to attempt his high spot. I believe Austin did make his name on wrestling ability. Remember Stunning Steve Austin? He was a great mat wrestler then became a great brawler. Shows great versitility. Sheik is a WWE HOFer. Know who else is? Steve Austin. Sabu, not so much.