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If it weren't for "feeder" organizations like WCW, TNA, ROH, ECW, AWA, or the NWA, then where would the WWE be??? Most of the WWE's biggest stars in it's history came from another company.
The WWE is shit at discovering talent on it's own. WCW and ECW may have been the two best discoverers of raw wrestling ability.
So 6 years since the WWE has been a monopoly, the top stars are John Cena, Batista, and Bobby Lashley. You don't see the problem in this? These guys are dull and boring, and are all created from within the WWE. There are no more WCW's to raid and bring in Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Booker T and on and on and on.
The WWE needs the smaller promotions to survive, because the talent scouts in todays' WWE suck.
The WWE is shit at discovering talent on it's own. WCW and ECW may have been the two best discoverers of raw wrestling ability.
So 6 years since the WWE has been a monopoly, the top stars are John Cena, Batista, and Bobby Lashley. You don't see the problem in this? These guys are dull and boring, and are all created from within the WWE. There are no more WCW's to raid and bring in Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Booker T and on and on and on.
The WWE needs the smaller promotions to survive, because the talent scouts in todays' WWE suck.
You fail to mention Robert Roode, Chris Harris, AJ Styles, amongst others. I may even add Samoa Joe, Low Ki and several other ROH stars to that list, seeing as, not too long ago, ROH and TNA shared a massive portion of their rosters. I should probably forgive you though, considering you've probably never given the TNA product more than a biased glance.
Sure TNA helped to make those names stars, even though I don't believe the previous poster's thoughts were bias. Well, there was a time when AJ Styles was the champion and he should at least be main eventing PPV's however majority the WCW and WWE's past are now burying TNA's stars and TNA's future when it took Kurt Angle and Christian Cage months to win the title while Joe has been devoted for years and never got the title.
Hot damn, I'm Mad Metal
Jack bruce
Occasional Pre-Show
ok whatever i am a little bored with tna right now if i miss it i dont care smackdown I feel like a nerd cause i dont get to go to my high school ganes and hang out with my friends but i really sad when i miss smackdown tho and ecw i quit and im forced to watvch raw im not sure if im a wrestling fan anymore.
Many of you seem to forget this is wrestling. Nothing else really matters. It doesnt matter if a wrestler is a former wwe wrestler or not as long as they can wrestle. It doesnt matter where Kurt Angle came from if your a wrestling company you should want an olympic gold medalist. Everyone would think TNA was stupid if they didnt pick up opportunities like Angle and Sting. Also, Christian should never be referred to as a wwe reject since he himself is the one who rejected wwe.
It doesnt matter who makes their own stars, it matters who has the best stars. A company is best judged by its champions. Kurt Angle is better than John Cena and The Great Khali. period.
As far as PPV goes I have to go with TNA. WWE has to many ppv's and they only put time and focus on to WM and SS every other ppv has been pretty much horrible except maybe RR(which only has one match worth seeing). TNA has way less tv time to build up ppv's and yet they still have been able to put on many that outshine the wwe ppv of that same month.
Id rather see "NO surrender" than Unforgiven. People seem to put down Angle but as a wrestling fan I dont understand not wanting to see him in the ring. Id rather see Kurt wrestle three times in one night than see what Unforiven has to offer.(Well actually two times since I dont wanna see pacman and killings) Only thing I see Unforgiven offering is the return of the Undertker but since his return is against Mark Henry that kills the whole thing. It is getting to the point where the only reason to buy a ppv is to see if Cena will drop the belt and that has turned into a year-long dissappointment.
It doesnt matter who makes their own stars, it matters who has the best stars. A company is best judged by its champions. Kurt Angle is better than John Cena and The Great Khali. period.
As far as PPV goes I have to go with TNA. WWE has to many ppv's and they only put time and focus on to WM and SS every other ppv has been pretty much horrible except maybe RR(which only has one match worth seeing). TNA has way less tv time to build up ppv's and yet they still have been able to put on many that outshine the wwe ppv of that same month.
Id rather see "NO surrender" than Unforgiven. People seem to put down Angle but as a wrestling fan I dont understand not wanting to see him in the ring. Id rather see Kurt wrestle three times in one night than see what Unforiven has to offer.(Well actually two times since I dont wanna see pacman and killings) Only thing I see Unforgiven offering is the return of the Undertker but since his return is against Mark Henry that kills the whole thing. It is getting to the point where the only reason to buy a ppv is to see if Cena will drop the belt and that has turned into a year-long dissappointment.
^^ good post wwenba.
I do have to agree pro wrestling is all about controversy, however I feel that the entire "breaking the rules" to build a promotion whether or not it's the incorrect way "as long as it works" is something more of the past seeing these days people wants alternatives that delivers something different/original. If taking a different promotion's established stars (rejects or not) and bringing them in really would help to build a promotion in the modern day as well as re-using ideas from the past, then I don't know why TNA is still in the low 1's ratings range. Their ratings barely rise despite if anyone claims TNA is expanding. It's only .2 or .3 higher now than when it was very late on Saturdays which isn't too impressive IMHO.
I can't make official statements for others, but I rather prefer creativity as well as an alternative that's completely different, yet, refreshing that I never seen before to attract me and to convince me it's worth watching. If that's not the case, then I'm sure many wouldn't be annoyed with the fact John Cena has held the title and been in the "spotlight" for too long when things like that would have passed/worked back in the older days. Once again, creativity is the key in 2007.
Hot damn, I'm Mad Metal
I do have to agree pro wrestling is all about controversy, however I feel that the entire "breaking the rules" to build a promotion whether or not it's the incorrect way "as long as it works" is something more of the past seeing these days people wants alternatives that delivers something different/original. If taking a different promotion's established stars (rejects or not) and bringing them in really would help to build a promotion in the modern day as well as re-using ideas from the past, then I don't know why TNA is still in the low 1's ratings range. Their ratings barely rise despite if anyone claims TNA is expanding. It's only .2 or .3 higher now than when it was very late on Saturdays which isn't too impressive IMHO.
I can't make official statements for others, but I rather prefer creativity as well as an alternative that's completely different, yet, refreshing that I never seen before to attract me and to convince me it's worth watching. If that's not the case, then I'm sure many wouldn't be annoyed with the fact John Cena has held the title and been in the "spotlight" for too long when things like that would have passed/worked back in the older days. Once again, creativity is the key in 2007.
Hot damn, I'm Mad Metal
you bring up good points....but personally i dont base my choice on the "best" wrestling promotion on the champions but the product being entertaining as a whole.......not to take anything away from kurt...he is great in the ring and good on the mic but i'm just not a fan of him...i dont care for the guy....now if i am more entertained and would rather watch orton beat the shit out of cena then watch angle and abyss then does that mean that my opinion as a wrestling fan matters any less then someone that wants to watch an angle match because he is the best "wrestler"...no. kurt may be the best athlete but i dont find the guy entertaining.....thats just me though
Let's have a look at the products as a whole then. Main Eventing WWE, we have John Cena vs. Randy Orton, Great Khali (and his deadly claw!) vs. Rey Mysterio, CM Punk (Mr. Overrated) vs. Johnny Nitr-- John Morrison. Main Eventing TNA, we have Kurt Angle vs. Abyss. Angle/Abyss is much better than any of the aforementioned WWE fueds, as both can wrestle their way out of a cardboard box. Of the WWE Main Eventers, CM Punk is the only one that can really wrestle his way out of a cardboard box and he's Main Eventing ECW, as well as his "amazing skills" being incredibly overrated, particularly now he's in WWE.
As for tag teams, well, at least Team Pacman is an actual team, not made up of two people who are fueding. Jesus. Are Cade and Murdoch tag champs on Raw? They're not even on the videogame for chrissake. Then there are no other real tag teams other than the ones that never, ever compete like WGTT and Londricks. Cryme Tyme's also been let go. TNA still has, even though they are pretty underused, Motor City Machineguns, LAX, AJ Styles and Tomko, Sting and Kurt Angle, The Steiners and *sigh* yes, Team 3D. TNA wins in tag teams.
I won't bother with any other tag teams, because it can be debated what compares to what in each company.
Hot damn, I'm Mrs. Sam!!
As for tag teams, well, at least Team Pacman is an actual team, not made up of two people who are fueding. Jesus. Are Cade and Murdoch tag champs on Raw? They're not even on the videogame for chrissake. Then there are no other real tag teams other than the ones that never, ever compete like WGTT and Londricks. Cryme Tyme's also been let go. TNA still has, even though they are pretty underused, Motor City Machineguns, LAX, AJ Styles and Tomko, Sting and Kurt Angle, The Steiners and *sigh* yes, Team 3D. TNA wins in tag teams.
I won't bother with any other tag teams, because it can be debated what compares to what in each company.
Hot damn, I'm Mrs. Sam!!
Personally, i like both, TNA is hardcore and fun to watch where as WWE has reasonable storylines but less good matches than TNA, I watch them both and i enjoy both, TNA have many ex-WWE superstars like Angle and Cage that actually keeps the business entertaining, where as WWE have the high flyers like Rey Mysterio and people with a slightly larger moveset than the great khali, with the likes of Matt hardy who is fun to watch
you can compare products all you want...the ratings speak for themselves. Im not a TNA basher by any means butuntil the product is extended to two hours I find it to be rushed...by that I mean that it is too damn difficult for a promotion to tell a weeks worth or story in a 1 hour time slot....with 2 hours the proper attention can be given to the mid car talent and hopefully storyline will develop a little more in depth. I'll reserve my judgement until then....you compare angle and abyss to the three main event feuds going on right now....you seem to credit only Punk but dont even acknowledge Morrison....you say that the TNA feud is more entertaining then the WWE feuds and you base that off of wrestleing ability....i guess it depends what you call entertaining...LAX was the hottest thing in TNA and was burried by the booking team and the AJ/Tomko and Sting/Angle teams you mentioned are not long term teams....you cant really evaluate Pacman because the guy inst a wrestler and hasnt performed enough....the TNA tag division IMO is about the same as WWE...
Im sorry but it is complete crap to say that the TNA ta division is the same as WWE. They have brouht back the meanin of tag team wrestling. SO the division has taken a back seat a few months but it has been one from wwe for well over a year. There tag division kills anything wwe has to offer.
People keep talkin about History and i dont know why. History is old news. Yes wwe has built an empire over the past decades but lets talk about RIGHT Now. WWE has better ratings because they are better at sports entertainment
People keep talkin about History and i dont know why. History is old news. Yes wwe has built an empire over the past decades but lets talk about RIGHT Now. WWE has better ratings because they are better at sports entertainment
Very well said wwenba. You're right about the audience factor. I for one am a fan of wrestling. I like matches not stupid story lines. Yeah some promos do make me laugh and are entertaining but I'd rather watch pure wrestling. And yeah TNA has shyed away lately but at Bound For Glory you know they will go all out to put on one helluva PPV.
mean_gene_roberts
Occasional Pre-Show
I feel that TNA has one thing that the WWE doesn't have at this stage...credibility.
WWE has brought the point of having a belt to nothing. RAW isn't in too bad shape on this issue but...Rey or Khali on Smackdown? (which happens to be the old WCW belt). Punk, Morrison? A midget as your cruiserweight champ? A couple redneck boys (Murdoch is deceptively good in ring). and 50's greasers as tag team champs? A Playboy model for womens champ? Sorry, but WWE hasn't had a credible champ in any division or show since Batista dominated HHH. That was a feud and build worth the price of admission, almost like WCW used to do it...hhhmmmmm!
I have to disagree with the idea that the straps don't matter. In fact, at any given time you can read the popularity rankings by who has a belt. That's how we know who the star of the show is.
And, when it comes right down to it, the only "Monday Night Wars" going on between TNA and WWE is only in the minds of those who are still in mourning over the demise of WCW.
Bringing up WCW, does anyone remember what it was that gave them the edge over Vince and could have changed the face of wrestling as we know it today? Wrestling! WCW had better in ring performers and didn't rely on cartoon characters for the entertainment factor, such as The Brooklyn Brawler, Doink The Clown, Honk Tonk Man.
Stop hoping for another showdown and enjoy all the products available out there.
WWE has brought the point of having a belt to nothing. RAW isn't in too bad shape on this issue but...Rey or Khali on Smackdown? (which happens to be the old WCW belt). Punk, Morrison? A midget as your cruiserweight champ? A couple redneck boys (Murdoch is deceptively good in ring). and 50's greasers as tag team champs? A Playboy model for womens champ? Sorry, but WWE hasn't had a credible champ in any division or show since Batista dominated HHH. That was a feud and build worth the price of admission, almost like WCW used to do it...hhhmmmmm!
I have to disagree with the idea that the straps don't matter. In fact, at any given time you can read the popularity rankings by who has a belt. That's how we know who the star of the show is.
And, when it comes right down to it, the only "Monday Night Wars" going on between TNA and WWE is only in the minds of those who are still in mourning over the demise of WCW.
Bringing up WCW, does anyone remember what it was that gave them the edge over Vince and could have changed the face of wrestling as we know it today? Wrestling! WCW had better in ring performers and didn't rely on cartoon characters for the entertainment factor, such as The Brooklyn Brawler, Doink The Clown, Honk Tonk Man.
Stop hoping for another showdown and enjoy all the products available out there.
I just want to reiterate something I said earlier:
WWE will always get better ratings because a non-wrestling fan can sit down and watch an episode of the WWE. They have more entertaining characters.
Things like "WWE Idol" and "The Dating Game" and "Hornswoggle vs. Noble" and "Vince Dies" and "Who is Vince's Son" are entertaining to those who dont necessarily condiser themselves big wrestlin fan. As a wrestling fan I find these concepts ridiculous but it appeals to a much wider audience. TNA has more of a focus on in-ring wrestling performance(although they are shying away from it a little bit now).
WWE appeals to a much wider audience with its "sports entertainers" and TNA appeals to the small niche that are fans of "proffessional wrestlers".
I personally prefer wrestling.
WWE will ALWAYS be more popular but that has nothing to do with actual in-ring wrestling.
Well, with the start of the WWE Diva Search I see the need to point this issue out once again. It is entertainment but a waist of tv time as far as wrestling is concerned and once again shows the difference in the direction that TNA and WWE are headed.
WWE will always get better ratings because a non-wrestling fan can sit down and watch an episode of the WWE. They have more entertaining characters.
Things like "WWE Idol" and "The Dating Game" and "Hornswoggle vs. Noble" and "Vince Dies" and "Who is Vince's Son" are entertaining to those who dont necessarily condiser themselves big wrestlin fan. As a wrestling fan I find these concepts ridiculous but it appeals to a much wider audience. TNA has more of a focus on in-ring wrestling performance(although they are shying away from it a little bit now).
WWE appeals to a much wider audience with its "sports entertainers" and TNA appeals to the small niche that are fans of "proffessional wrestlers".
I personally prefer wrestling.
WWE will ALWAYS be more popular but that has nothing to do with actual in-ring wrestling.
Well, with the start of the WWE Diva Search I see the need to point this issue out once again. It is entertainment but a waist of tv time as far as wrestling is concerned and once again shows the difference in the direction that TNA and WWE are headed.
mean_gene_roberts
Occasional Pre-Show
I agree with you in principle but there is a flaw in your reasoning. First, a non-wrestling fan would never (and I mean never) watch the WWE or any other wrestling program.
Most of the fans I know, purists and otherwise, do not find Dating Game and other such skits as entertaining. They see it as a colossial waste of time and go make a sandwich (which I did during the Khali/Hardy match tonight on RAW.
And, as for the "small niche" of wrestling fans, there is a major reason both WWE and TNA ratings stay about the same...advertising and name recognition. Which is why "choosy mothers choose 'Jif'" and "Chevy is "America's Truck". Advertising and name recognition. As for them (WWE) always being more popular, that's what they said about WCW.
T
tigerberry
Guest
Come on now. NO good wrestlers, please. I would love to see anybody vs. Christopher Daniels or A.J. Styles. Rejects.....hah, how about K. Angle, he was a reject. Come on now. So it has a six sided ring, it's different. To tell you the truth, you don't know s..t. Watch a payperview TNA vs WWE there's no contest. TNA wins hands down. The only WWE star I look forward to seeing anymore is HHH and even though he's funny out of the ring vs VKM his inring wrestling is getting more and more predictable. Watch Kaz or XXX and that's wrestling. Wake up Oct 4 is coming and TNA is going 2 hours
WWE will always be better than TNA because there wrestlers can perform great matches and cut great promos. If TNA believes that moving to two hours will get them near the WWE range their completely wrong. TNA used to be different than WWE with their X Division stars but now WWE is getting more guys that can wrestle since the scandal while TNA are signing these WWE rejects who weigh over 300 pounds (Rikishi, Matt Morgan, Tomko). Also, now that TNA has top name talent like Angle, Christian, and Sting guys who've been there from the start and have talent like Daniels and Styles are being pushed to the side. TNA will always be a cheap rip off of WWE as long as they continue push ex WWE stars and leave top talents like Samoa Joe to the side.
iget4:20higher
Occasional Pre-Show
Ok first is TNA is not competing. They are just doing their thing or else they'd get demolished. A couple jabs at the WWE does not mean "they're at war" About the better wrestlers and matches....erm dont think so. You mean you'd rather see Wartista vs. Khali then Kurt Angle vs. Abyss? Wow no comment there. Yes the WWE can cut better promos, but TNA doesn't completely leech off storylines like the WWE. They'd rather leech of well you know....wrestling. And TNA's storylines are cheesy, but oh so convincing. You mean you'd rather believe an old bitter man finding his "long lost son" then watching two guys just fight for a title? No comment again. The WWE is going to the crapper these days and things are looking bad. Next thing they'll be doing is a "lost city of Atlantis" angle while TNA will enjoy every ounce of those 2 hours.
mean_gene_roberts
Occasional Pre-Show
I was just running through some of the previous posts and noticed something really interesting. I see people bad-mouthing talent like Angle, Christian, Rhino, Team 3D and now even Rikishi who, for one reason or another left WWE. But, these are the same people who sang their praises and moaned the blues when Vince either fired them or they left on their own.
With that in mind, how can I take you seriously? You love them when they were with Vince and now they are nothing but bums because they are in a different promotion? You say that these people suck but you still want them back in WWE...why?
Today, you say Booker T was great, but if he showed up the next night on TNA you'd say he sucked. All that tells me is that you don't know squat. Oh. yeah, I really liked the one about Vince sending Kane to beat up Rhyno. Give me a break. Apparently you are the winner of the "Mark of the Year".
And as for the point of TNA competing with WWE, again, this is only in the minds of those who want to relive the "Monday Night Wars", which none of us knew was happening until it was over. You can go to any independent promotion around the world and hear the same type of interviews that Rhyno and others have done against Vinnie Mac.
On another note, looking at the poll results, I see that there are 12 people who voted "neither". If you are watching neither, please tell us what you are watching. Besides WWE and TNA, I watch NWA Anarchy online and I'm looking forward to the NWA starting their show on Colours which is on Dish Network. I've still got cable so I'm hoping that someone will post it online somewhere for the rest of us. Or else I'll have to get to know my neighbors better.
Later folks.
With that in mind, how can I take you seriously? You love them when they were with Vince and now they are nothing but bums because they are in a different promotion? You say that these people suck but you still want them back in WWE...why?
Today, you say Booker T was great, but if he showed up the next night on TNA you'd say he sucked. All that tells me is that you don't know squat. Oh. yeah, I really liked the one about Vince sending Kane to beat up Rhyno. Give me a break. Apparently you are the winner of the "Mark of the Year".
And as for the point of TNA competing with WWE, again, this is only in the minds of those who want to relive the "Monday Night Wars", which none of us knew was happening until it was over. You can go to any independent promotion around the world and hear the same type of interviews that Rhyno and others have done against Vinnie Mac.
On another note, looking at the poll results, I see that there are 12 people who voted "neither". If you are watching neither, please tell us what you are watching. Besides WWE and TNA, I watch NWA Anarchy online and I'm looking forward to the NWA starting their show on Colours which is on Dish Network. I've still got cable so I'm hoping that someone will post it online somewhere for the rest of us. Or else I'll have to get to know my neighbors better.
Later folks.
R
rmd83
Guest
ok i like wwe still somewhat mainly raw, but the fact is TNA is the better company. Granted TNA has gotten kinda silly between the time i started watching it late last year and now but true wwe fans only like wwe because it's what they grew up on and now that alot of the wwe super stars are heading over to tna i have no doubt it'll be what wwe once was if not better
iget4:20higher
Occasional Pre-Show
TNA is just giving us better WRESTLING. Vince is giving us better SHIT. All opinions here so dont bash me. The thing is EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER or as Vince the douche calls them "superstars" COME FROM ANOTHER COMPANY whether it be indy's or well-knows. Here's a list of WWE:
Kane- Smokey Mountain Wrestling
Undertaker- WCW as "Mean Mark Calaway" I believe
Stone Cold- If you dont know then you're extremely ignorant
Batista- WCW Power Plant
Great Khali- Japan
I could keep on going, but my point is clear. Quit bashing TNA about "rejects" when WWE got a share of them too. Basicly your just saying something like "TNA is full of rejects and WWE just made them all stars....by the way I'm not a WWE mark."
People look at TNA too one-dimensional if you ask me. Either dont watch it or if you never watch it how bout you do before judging it?
Kane- Smokey Mountain Wrestling
Undertaker- WCW as "Mean Mark Calaway" I believe
Stone Cold- If you dont know then you're extremely ignorant
Batista- WCW Power Plant
Great Khali- Japan
I could keep on going, but my point is clear. Quit bashing TNA about "rejects" when WWE got a share of them too. Basicly your just saying something like "TNA is full of rejects and WWE just made them all stars....by the way I'm not a WWE mark."
People look at TNA too one-dimensional if you ask me. Either dont watch it or if you never watch it how bout you do before judging it?
Most wrestlers are smalltime players in other promotions until they get their big break in one of the top ones. I'd also like to point out there's not as much WWE "reject" hate in these forums as some people may think - I never praised Rikishi and I don't know anyone who has. Christian is usually adored by TNA fans, myself included, and Angle love is about to go back to fever pitch now that he's giving other people a chance to, you know, appear on TNA programming.
Besides, half of the TNA roster has been on HEAT at one time or another.
Hot damn, I'm Mrs. Sam!!
Besides, half of the TNA roster has been on HEAT at one time or another.
Hot damn, I'm Mrs. Sam!!
KingBooker1987
Dark Match Jobber
jay lethal....i want to cry for the way tna treats u. first they give u someone else gimmick then they give u the belt for one day. then after u beat kurt angle CLEAN they make u look like a jobber in ur next fight. Can tna pleez give me consistency.
"Kane- Smokey Mountain Wrestling
Undertaker- WCW as "Mean Mark Calaway" I believe
Stone Cold- If you dont know then you're extremely ignorant
Batista- WCW Power Plant
Great Khali- Japan
I could keep on going, but my point is clear. Quit bashing TNA about "rejects" when WWE got a share of them too
. Basicly your just saying something like "TNA is full of rejects and WWE just made them all stars....by the way I'm not a WWE mark."
:The thing about rejects is that they were once famous. the list u gave were guys from small time promotions (not famous) that moved on to WWE and then became famous(the people we know them as). TNA is takin guys that have passed their prime and tryin to use that factor to get ratings.
"Kane- Smokey Mountain Wrestling
Undertaker- WCW as "Mean Mark Calaway" I believe
Stone Cold- If you dont know then you're extremely ignorant
Batista- WCW Power Plant
Great Khali- Japan
I could keep on going, but my point is clear. Quit bashing TNA about "rejects" when WWE got a share of them too
. Basicly your just saying something like "TNA is full of rejects and WWE just made them all stars....by the way I'm not a WWE mark.":The thing about rejects is that they were once famous. the list u gave were guys from small time promotions (not famous) that moved on to WWE and then became famous(the people we know them as). TNA is takin guys that have passed their prime and tryin to use that factor to get ratings.
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