[UnOfficial] WWE vs. TNA Thread - New one active

[Kasey]

i like watchin the show and whether it is bad or not im not going to kill myself over it just being bad...you analyze and ask for to much from the company...they are still making more money..they still have sells..and are STILL the most popular wrestling production in the world today...

Whoever said you needed to kill yourself because WWE does suck? No one. You miss the point of his and my views on that company entirely. We don't ask for anything more quality-wise than they've given in the past. We ask that they don't market to us like we're complete $hitheads. We ask that they actually hold themselves to a standard of excellence with regards to the workrate, rather than just getting by like they've done for years now. We ask that they try to book intelligently instead of giving us sideshows like the "Kiss My Ass Club", Umaga, Khali, K-Fed, Donald/Rosie, and a plethora of other completely ridiculous maneuvers that do NOTHING to elevate the quality of the show. Yes, they are still making money. I wouldn't expect for them to do less given the entrenched foothold they have in the industry and the near five-year monopoly they had over American television being completely untested by another company. And yes, they are still the most popular wrestling production in the world. They also have the largest exposure...so what'd you expect? If you don't wish to have standards, that's definitely your problem and not that of us that watch with actual scrutiny.

 

[Kasey]

When Tna Got Better People and made the name and been around longer then wwe and done the things what the wwe has done then you can saying it better. for vkm and Christain Cage do you no why they in tna because there wwe junk they only think what has work for vkm is beening in dx.and who in there right minds have christian has they champ That Guy SucKs Tna Sucks same thing is going to happen to tna what happen to wcw .

What exactly do you mean by "better" people? Fancier gimmicks (for some of them) and better pryo presentations are typically the only leg up in terms of WWE wrestlers having anything to hold over the heads of some of the TNA athletes. In terms of in-ring product from lower card to top, WWE gets their ass handed to them on a silver platter. When you're talking about TNA being around longer than WWE, you're basically discussing an impossibility as the only way TNA could ever be around longer than (basically older than) WWE is if Dixie Carter had access to the flux capacator and Doc Brown's DeLorean, so you're point is transparent to the Nth degree. Because they're "WWE junk" huh? I won't even bother responding to your case of typing diarrhea. Who in their right minds would have Christian as champ? I don't know. Maybe a company who would like a champion that is able to wrestle as well as talk? WWE had the chance and pissed him away, even though he was outscooping pops from their golden boy Cena. Please establish some sort of logic before coming on here and embarrassing yourself and other WWE faithful.

 

[Kasey]

one of the reasons why tna sucks is cause the x division makes no sense.
Is it for lighter superstars only if so how come there is a 4000pound gorilla known as samoa joe in the hunt for the title. It makes no sense

It's not touted as being for lighter superstars. The actual tagline for the division is "It's not about weight limits...it's about no limits." If you don't get the gist of what that means, than stop typing this stuff. Please. The basis for the X-division is about workrate...not weight limits.

 

[matragethemage]

Since my last post in October I have continued to watch TNA and I am still waiting for it to become what everyone touts its as. It is not doing anything different than WWE. Both shows have some good wrestling and alot of stupid angles that waste time. I don't want to hear another person say TNA is all about the wrestling. Watch a show sometime and tell me what VKM has to do with wrestling. The beloved X-division that is "about no limits", well I'll give that one to TNA they have proven that some of the most gifted wrestlers today operate in the X-division. I have yet to see the WWE show any superstar that can limbo or play musical chairs like the X-division warriors. We need to remember that the mind behind some the worst moments in WWE and WCW is running the show at TNA. I personally can't wait for Wrestling Society X maybe they will be about wrestling because neither WWE or TNA can say that.

 

[Downward Spiral]

Unless one of use magically have the inner workings of the WWE, there is no way we can blame the slump in ratings on anyone (or partly blame), especially Jim Ross of all people.

I think anyone who has a role in what we see on television can be blamed if we find the product is not up to scratch. No, we do not know all of what goes on in the WWE, but no one said or acted like they did. Jim Ross is in charge of business strategies, so his role would be trying to market the product to the right audience from which they can draw the most viewers, and sell the most merchandise. As far as I am concerned, that is a job that would warrant blame for something bad we see on television.

He is the man that has signed huge names like Lita, Trish Stratus, The Dudley Boyz, Kurt Angle, The Hardy Boyz, Edge, Christian, John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Big Show, Mick Foley, The Rock, Steve Austin, Batista, and so many more that all helped boost ratings (example of that is Mick Foley who's segment on Raw in the late 90s gave Raw the higest rating it has ever had.)

You say that as if you think Jim Ross was the reason that the WWE saw interest in those guys. All Jim Ross did for those guys careers was to prepare the contracts that they would sign. He was hardly integral in their signings, and yes they were big names, but I cannot see that many that are still in the WWE, so he hasn't done a good job of keeping them there has he? There are many other people who have much more important roles than JR did in regards to these wrestlers, so don't go overboard and claim that he was the one that created all that. To defend the WWE while using these names is pointless, because it just shows the gap that todays WWE has in comparison to the talent that they had a decade or so ago.

Sure it pisses me off when I see the Great Kahli actually has a match- or that an idiotic segment like Rosie vs Trump was actually hyped. And you're 100% right Kasey that fans of the right to express our opinions, but that doesn't mean that half our opinions might sound like whiny complaints.

You have just listed many of the reasons that some perceive the WWE to have jumped the proverbial shark. This is just fuel that we fans can use should we feel the need to speak out against what we find wrong. We do have a right to complain, but unless someone can make a valid point and use reliable references, they will sound like whiny complaints. Kasey I think is different to many people who come on these forums in that he expresses his opinion with great, intellectual points that are hard to argue with. For him, anyone who cannot match the calibre of knowledge that he has obtained from years of watching wrestling, may sound like a stupid complainer or defender, depending on which side they are on. I think you may see a lot of people who whine on these forums because they know the WWE is sliding and are choosing to have selective memories.

Referring to that I can see where JR is coming from. Though wrestling might not be the pinnacle of every fan's life, it is pretty obvious by the amount of reptitive complaints or "opinions" on JR's site, that he might percieve fans care about wrestling too much.

And in some peoples lives I think it is. JR's comments are completely contradictory to me. He has devoted his life around wrestling and football, so I don't see the 100 other things that are more important. Yes, it may not be the central part of every fans life but it doesn't have to be to have people care about it as much as they do. They have a right to love it as much as they do, and unless they go overboard with complaints, I see no problem in them asking JR about his opinion on the current WWE. It is not everyday that you get to talk to someone so involved in the business, so it is inevitable that you will end up seeing some passionate questions ask. There are different types of fans for everything in the world. Don't question their motives to do things like go on these forums.

A lot of fans might think that Vince McMahon is completely oblivious to the fans and what they want, but in all fairness he isn't. Did anyone actually listen to Vince's promo on Raw last week? Everything he was saying from Donald Trump's supposed "letter", sounded extremely familiar to the criticism the fans had of the segment.

I agree with you on this one. Vince knows too much about the business in order to forget what the fans want. But right now, I think that he may need just a little refresher after seeing some of the things his company has put on the TV. I really don't think they would copy what a fan wrote and include it in a storyline though. Yes some had the same sentiments as what he said, but I think the whole company was thinking the same thing. Fans need to remember that he has to stick to his character, and just because he says something on TV, it doesn't mean he really feels that way.

The thing is that many wrestling fans have a perception of what a wrestling show should be like and if it isn't like they'll assume it's horrible. Raw really isn't that bad, and if you can ignore the few terrible segments or storyline that it does have occasionaly it might be more enjoyable. It's been on for
10+ years, and it's bound to have a bump (or crater) in the road every now and then.

I never thought anyone would think that fans all like the same thing. But fans feel passionate about what they like and don't like. The Trump vs Rosie was unacceptable, for any fan. Most on here watch wrestling for wrestling, not these things, and the only reason the majority of fans of the WWE don't like pure wrestling, is because the WWE has stepped in a completely different direction than what it was. An entertainment filled direction. All fans craved wrestling and good promos a decade ago, and now because of the lack of it, most have learned to live without it. TNA is now an option to the fans who still want that, and now it has become an option for all fans with all these stupid skits and matches.

Do not ever tell people to ignore something to make another better. We deserve a product that does not have Trump and Rosie or Kevin Federline, and nothing less. The WWE has not pulled a single thing good out of the hat that they have used to come up with that crap, and I am sick of it. Sure, you can ride out the rough patch that was bound to happen, or you can be vocal about your disgust in the product you see. They have the tools to fix it, yet they have been too stupid to pull them out by now. We have been waiting for 2 years for it to go back to the way it was, and everytime we think it is turning around, we see Khali or Cena prevail all the time and terrible skits. I know as a fan that no one wants to see this. The WWE of all should know what the fans want, yet they continue to act oblivious to the prescence of TNA. Maybe if they just copied off TNA what has made them get so much hype and popularity, then maybe you would see less complaints on JR's website. My point is that we do not have to put up with this crap, but we have been doing it for too long. We deserve near-perfect programming, and that is not a skit. That is the wrestling and the wrestlers that made it big.

If you want to watch TNA then watch it, if you want to watch Raw then watch it. There's no point in comparing the two, in my opinion because they're too different in a lot of ways.

Why can't you compare them? They are both wrestling products that are in the same country, and both emulate eachother at times. The difference here is that TNA is an up and coming promotion, that is looking to capitalise on the WWE's lenghty lapse and I can see that they are catching up to the falling WWE. Fans of wrestling will watch all the wrestling they can get. Trust me, I questioned some peoples motives of why they watch a product they hate, and I have gotten the same answer each time: It is because they love wrestling and are waiting to see what they want on the screen.

I really don't know why you put this in. We can clearly see differences and similarities in the products because they are both producing wrestling aren't they? Except in this case, TNA is producing what the smark wants to see: Wrestling and nothing but, and the WWE is producing entertainment for kids, and nothing except the one quality match up that they have occasionally. TNA seems to be holding up better than the WWE, and they are much more consistent. Fans are sick of the WWE, and if they want to point out faults in it and do it intelligently, then I see no problem in them comparing it. The IWC wants wrestling, so they will be passionate about it. JR should know better than what he said, and it sounds an awful lot like he is trying not to speak his mind about the WWE.

 

[pulsar]

Heres my take on this:

I grew up loving WWF in the attitude era and loving WCW despite its flaws up until the end. After WCW went under I didn't follow wrestling nearly as close for several years. In the last four months I've been watching WWE and TNA when I have the chance and here's my opinion:

WWE has a huge roster with great talent, but a lot of it goes unused because the roster is so big. The Brand Extension idea worked for a while but now it seems like there's the same half dozen guys on each show who get a push and everyone else goes begging. And the scary thing to me is THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO WCW NEAR THE END. It seems to me like since WCW and ECW went out the WWE decided it didn't have to try nearly as hard to be edgy or exciting since it was now the only game in town. I have watched Raw and Smackdown every week the last month and I can honestly say I've been bored. And I NEVER felt that way in the Attitude Era.

As far as TNA is concerned...

I like the wrestling a lot better in TNA than in WWE. I think the octagon ring is a cool idea. The X-Division matches are exciting and remind me of how much I loved watching the cruiserweights in WCW back in the day. But I see a lot of the same problems WCW had potentially popping up in TNA.

For starters, while signing some of WWE's talent away is smart (guys like Rhino and Christian as well as Angle), they can't do too much of it or it will become a WWE clone. They need to be careful what they offer these guys in the way of creative control as well, lest it turn into the Millionaires Club all over again.

Second, the real test is going to be when TNA convinces Spike to give them a 2 hour program. I think it will happen very soon. Going against Raw would be a bad idea in my opinion because I honestly don't think production-value wise TNA is in the WWE's league yet. When TNA gets their 2 hour slot they're going to need to step up the production values big time in order to look competitive. It sounds unfair, but bottom line is the casual fans especially are going to judge the show by how it looks. I remember watching RAW the night after Owen Hart died, then watching the tape I had made of the night's Nitro and thinking, "Wow...the WCW set looks so small compared to WWF". That sort of thing does resonate in the eyes and minds of the average fan.

The main point I am making is, for TNA to compete or even take over the head spot from WWE (which I think is indeed possible over time), they're going to need more than the smarks on the message boards to watch. They're gonna need the average joe fans who made WWF huge again in the 90's.

So which do I prefer? After Rosiegate, definitely TNA. We'll see what happens.

 

[Kasey]

Since my last post in October I have continued to watch TNA and I am still waiting for it to become what everyone touts its as. It is not doing anything different than WWE. Both shows have some good wrestling and alot of stupid angles that waste time. I don't want to hear another person say TNA is all about the wrestling. Watch a show sometime and tell me what VKM has to do with wrestling. The beloved X-division that is "about no limits", well I'll give that one to TNA they have proven that some of the most gifted wrestlers today operate in the X-division. I have yet to see the WWE show any superstar that can limbo or play musical chairs like the X-division warriors. We need to remember that the mind behind some the worst moments in WWE and WCW is running the show at TNA. I personally can't wait for Wrestling Society X maybe they will be about wrestling because neither WWE or TNA can say that.

Here, here. The main thing that makes TNA superior to WWE in my eyes on a consistent basis is the workrate. Definitely worth the money and always containing a level that is leagues ahead of what their Stamford counterparts put out. No one has forgotten that Russo is running the show. It's obvious with the TV product they put forth these days. In a way TNA is all about the wrestling, because the vast majority of their PPVs actually deliver and are worth the hype/purchase price or sometimes even more. WWE hasn't been able to say that for a few years now as the majority of their main-eventers can't work their way out of a wet paper sack (all three World Champions are the prime culprits). Sure, the VKM and X-division storylines are not everyone's cup of tea (and that's putting it mildly), but when it comes time for the X-division matches to take place on the PPVs, they still stomp anything from up north hands down. As a lesser of two evils, I'll take VKM's semi-shoots over Diet DX any day of the week. Would I love to see both of those storylines? No. However, I can basically choose which one I can stand more...and it ain't DX.

Storylines have indeed become the focus of TNA (much to my chagrin as I enjoyed the previous story/action split). WWE takes many more throughout the week with all of their programming and still drops the ball. Then the PPVs are generally duds, so it adds to a complete feeling of letdown. I personally hope that either A. Russo is put in check and limited with the insanity he can do or...B. He's deepsixed and ushered quietly out the back door. And granted, Russo is behind bar-none some of the worst WCW moments, and some of the worst WWF moments, but he was also one of the prime guys (along with Ferarra) responsible for some of the best moments in the Attitude Era. His problem is that he needs major proofreading and to be kept on a shorter leash. It's when he's left completely unchecked that the worst things can happen. I just pray that Uncle Jeff is watching the ship closely so that Russo doesn't crash it into a cliff.

 

[Kasey]

I remember watching RAW the night after Owen Hart died, then watching the tape I had made of the night's Nitro and thinking, "Wow...the WCW set looks so small compared to WWF". That sort of thing does resonate in the eyes and minds of the average fan.

Very good point. Most people don't even check stuff like this in terms of importance, but this is one of the things that always made WWF (towards the end of the '90's look superior to WCW. The show seemed larger, the arena seemed larger just by the setup. Little things like the presentation are what catches the eyes of the average joe. They like shiny things and wrestling entranceways are definitely no different in that regard. It's why I've hated the Smackdown set forever. The lighting is too subdued and almost trying to be romantic and the color scheme is just WAY too sedate. Raw always has the more alive looking set and crowd because the presentation is bigger and brighter.

The main point I am making is, for TNA to compete or even take over the head spot from WWE (which I think is indeed possible over time), they're going to need more than the smarks on the message boards to watch. They're gonna need the average joe fans who made WWF huge again in the 90's.

Of course. I just hope they build a grassroots campaign around great wrestling and solid storylines instead of cheap heat/pop getters that Russo is known for. They need to focus on being a top level product that the fans believe in, rather than a sideshow they tune in to see what kind of crazy crap is going down next.

 

[showtyme27]

First I want to say sorry it took so long for me to reply, i'm getting too busy these days but hear I go

Yes those guys did use that same weak heel character, but they also had some of the greatest matches in history at that time. They were still allowed to perform brilliantly in the ring, as well as play the wuss heel character outside of it. The WWE heel is just not what it used to be, and it is partly because they feel people will only watch wrestling to see the good guy kick the bad guys ass.

I agree on some level but I don't get your point, in earlier post you stated guys like Austin, HHH, The Rock, and others never did jobs like Styles did then you changed your mind, and regardless of the job AJ did with Angle he still has incredible matches, I just think TNA is working just a little too hard turning him into a heel they should back off a little and let it happen more natural.

I don't think the fans are going to really care about his WWE history. It doesn't make their guys look weak to have him defeat them, but squashing them is a whole different aspect. A win over this guy would boost any guys career but it may also hurt Angles reputation. I don't think any of the fans doubt or cannot see Angles ability. The guy is an Olympic Gold Medallist who rightly should be pushed as the top guy in any company. But I think they made him go over two of their top guys just so that he made a huge impact on TNA and so that they could give him an early platform to go off to reach the top of this company. I don't agree with the fact that he made Styles look like a beginner jobber in the ring because to even make one of their wrestlers look just as good as this guy would be a huge push for a young guy like him. I don't think it made WWE look better than TNA, it made Angle look better than TNA, which is just a little better. Christian came in, and within a few months I think, he became NWA champion - and that again didn't hurt TNA's reputation.

Again I agree on some level's but it would take a lot to hurt Angle's already incredible career, WWE had him jobbing to Cena, then sent him packing to ECW and had him jobbing to Show and RVD, none of this had a effect on how people viewed Angle, now on the other hand TNA has Angle come in and basicly make their top talent look like jokes, since joining the company he's beaten Abyss by submission, he damn their beat the tag champs LAX by himself(until Joe joined the party late), he squashed AJ Styles agruebly the companies MVP, and he did what no other TNA superstar could do and defeat the unbeatable Samoa Joe, now i'm not saying Angle doesn't deserve to be a top guy but I wouldn't feed him the top talent on my roster either as he was the competion's go-to-guy, about Christain he wasn't a go-to-guy in WWE(which was a huge mistake by them they really dropped the ball)which mean's his win's over TNA's top talent doesn't have the same impact as a Angle calibur wrestler, at best in WWE Christain was a Upper Mid-Carder(and I use that term very lightly) but Angle was a Mega Star in the WWE, so while their path's are similar Angle's will always mean more.

You would think that TNA would cater to every wish of Angle, simply because he is quite possibly the biggest star they have gotten and would be foolish to make him get frustrated like he did in the WWE. I think that going over two guys is again, just a way to make him look like the best wrestler in TNA, regardless of where he came from.

This is also a good way to lose your top talent that have stayed true too your company like AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, and Samoa Joe to name a few, seeing Angle just come in and take over their spots could pissed them off just as much as WWE did Angle.

I think that if he came in with a streak of losses to some of TNA's wrestlers, that the credibilty he had coming into TNA as the best wrestler in the business would be lost. TNA see this guy as the new MVP of the show and I think they want to make him look huge, but have gone about it the wrong way. They do not want Angle to get frustrated that he is not getting a push, and that is some arrogance by him that they will have to deal with. You have got to feel bad for AJ though. There he was, the brightest up and coming star that they had who had worked his ass off to impress the fans and company, and next thing you know, he jobs to some guy who they just brought in. To me, Angle has already exploded out of the blocks, but he has also left Joe and Styles behind, which is a definite wrong. If they had of left his push too late then I think that he would have lost the hype he had when he first came in. Again, they know his ability in the ring, so they are not going to look at what happened in the latter stage of his career (ECW) and judge him on that.

I truly understand your point but they could have slowly built him up like they did Joe feeding him the smaller stars first making him more of a TNA competitor then WWE star, then have him competitively battle AJ, Daniels, Joe, ECT....., this goes back to my eariler point of it would be pretty hard to hurt the credibility of a wrestler like Angle, and I totally agree with the 2nd half of this quote as it is truly a crime TNA would even consider doing this to it's two most bankable stars, but in the end I think AJ and Joe will continue to rise regardless of being beaten by Angle.

I don't agree with them making their heels look like the WWE ones, but even though this guy came from the WWE, they still have to make him look big by going over talent like he has been. In the long run it will pay off for Angle, but not for the young guys who deserve to be the main eventers.

Couldn't agree more....

Sorry about that post. It was a little jumbled and I had just woken up so I couldn't really think of many reasons to reply to your post with.

No problem i'm always up for a good debate.

To Kasey: Are you bored? I see your ripping apart almost everyone that has posted(lol).

 

[Kasey]

To Kasey: Are you bored? I see your ripping apart almost everyone that has posted(lol).

Not too bored, I just see people with a lack of logic and feel like exorcising my frustrations on Vince McMahon via a keyboard and just letting the sparks fly.

 

[Downward Spiral]

Welcome back. Here I go again as well.

I agree on some level but I don't get your point, in earlier post you stated guys like Austin, HHH, The Rock, and others never did jobs like Styles did then you changed your mind, and regardless of the job AJ did with Angle he still has incredible matches, I just think TNA is working just a little too hard turning him into a heel they should back off a little and let it happen more natural.

Those heels I mentioned were typical wuss heels, but they never lost like AJ did. Sorry if I said that but I don't believe that. They showed heel tactics in the ring occasionally, but on the big matches they did not let their character get in the way of what they could do. This is different though. They had the perfect opportunity to showcase a new, up and coming talent against a legend in the business, yet because he was a heel they had to make him look like he forgot how to wrestle just to build his character. In the WWE today, it is character first, wrestling second if at all. This looks to be the case here as well. Those guys were built up as much as AJ did, so I don't think the WWE would have let them lose like AJ did.

Again I agree on some level's but it would take a lot to hurt Angle's already incredible career, WWE had him jobbing to Cena, then sent him packing to ECW and had him jobbing to Show and RVD, none of this had a effect on how people viewed Angle, now on the other hand TNA has Angle come in and basicly make their top talent look like jokes, since joining the company he's beaten Abyss by submission, he damn their beat the tag champs LAX by himself(until Joe joined the party late), he squashed AJ Styles agruebly the companies MVP, and he did what no other TNA superstar could do and defeat the unbeatable Samoa Joe, now i'm not saying Angle doesn't deserve to be a top guy but I wouldn't feed him the top talent on my roster either as he was the competion's go-to-guy, about Christain he wasn't a go-to-guy in WWE(which was a huge mistake by them they really dropped the ball)which mean's his win's over TNA's top talent doesn't have the same impact as a Angle calibur wrestler, at best in WWE Christain was a Upper Mid-Carder(and I use that term very lightly) but Angle was a Mega Star in the WWE, so while their path's are similar Angle's will always mean more.

You are probably right that it won't make a difference to his career, but it would hurt his push in TNA to have him lose to their guys though - in any way. They know that he is a great talent that can build their product up, so we won't see him being squashed any time soon. That is how much they want to push him. They saw how the WWE misused him, and they do not want to do the same to him. Instead of making him go over them like he did, they probably should have stuck him in a mid-high card feud to settle him into TNA. But they have gone over the top in building him and ruining others. While I think that they should build him up to be a big star there, I don't think they should tear down established careers like they have been. Christian did deserve to be pushed better than he was in the WWE, but he did not have the accolades that Angle has. He wasn't the most popular or talented wrestler in the WWE, so they were foolish in this case to push him as better than the competition, which they did by making him champion soon after he came in. At least though, he had the ability to work with other guys in feuds that were competitive.

I think that it would definitely do a lot more to TNA if they were to have him lose to some of their talent rather than destroy them, but they want to assure everyone that he is their new top talent, and it is unfair and stupid to do to AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.

This is also a good way to lose your top talent that have stayed true too your company like AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, and Samoa Joe to name a few, seeing Angle just come in and take over their spots could pissed them off just as much as WWE did Angle.

I agree with that. They need to get past Angles attitude and show them that he cannot boss them around like he has probably been doing. The guy has so much ego that he will leave them as soon as he is not winning. I would love to see his back if this was the case because all that does is infuriate the young guys who have to work hard to achieve what they get. They see a major player in Angle though, and I think they are willing to ruin some young guys careers for him, which is a disgrace. Again, they are just using his heel turn (AJ's) as an excuse to make him look weak against another guy. Kurt should not be allowed to call the shots because he won't have AJ or Joe to squash after a while.

I truly understand your point but they could have slowly built him up like they did Joe feeding him the smaller stars first making him more of a TNA competitor then WWE star, then have him competitively battle AJ, Daniels, Joe, ECT....., this goes back to my eariler point of it would be pretty hard to hurt the credibility of a wrestler like Angle, and I totally agree with the 2nd half of this quote as it is truly a crime TNA would even consider doing this to it's two most bankable stars, but in the end I think AJ and Joe will continue to rise regardless of being beaten by Angle.

That sounds like a good idea, but I think they wanted him to make an impact. I think that they should have let him get over the fact that he is a TNA man now, and cut some promos about what the WWE did to him. I think he could have been either a mentor to some X-Division guys when he came in, or he could have done a Kevin Nash/Samoa Joe thing and do a heel run in the division. This will probably not destroy as much reputation as AJ had done to him, because everyone respects the underdog. I am all for seeing competition between the young guys and Angle, but that is not what TNA is looking for. They want to present him as the top guy, but that has an adverse effect on them because it ruins young guys careers. Having him explode like he has may have made everyone forget about his WWE ties, but again they have pushed him too far. I would not want to be facing Angle if I was a young guy. Especially on Impact where they are bound to make it a squash. Like you said, it would not hurt to have Angle lose here and there to guys like AJ and Joe. It would only be beneficial to them.

I don't see how they could have pushed Angle as a main event star if he wasn't going to face guys like AJ and Joe. He had to be put against credible guys but he has ruined it, and what I think should have been a steady rise is one that has rocketed off and blew people off the ladder they had worked so hard to climb. He is a new guy, but now that I think of it, it is pretty stupid that they have a former WWE star tear apart their best talent. That is the price you pay for buying a cocky SOB though.

No problem i'm always up for a good debate.

Me too but I will have to be quicker with my responses. It wasn't a good response because I am not used to pulling apart quotes and that.

 

[showtyme27]

Those heels I mentioned were typical wuss heels, but they never lost like AJ did. Sorry if I said that but I don't believe that. They showed heel tactics in the ring occasionally, but on the big matches they did not let their character get in the way of what they could do. This is different though. They had the perfect opportunity to showcase a new, up and coming talent against a legend in the business, yet because he was a heel they had to make him look like he forgot how to wrestle just to build his character. In the WWE today, it is character first, wrestling second if at all. This looks to be the case here as well. Those guys were built up as much as AJ did, so I don't think the WWE would have let them lose like AJ did.

I understand what your saying but by no mean's could that match be considered a "Big Match" it had no build up, no backstory, and was really just a match thrown in for good measure, I also don't consider AJ a up-and-comer because he has held every title in TNA and that's what makes his sqaush match to Angle even more insulting to me, but I have to agree for newer TNA/ mostly WWE fans a competitve match between the two would have made AJ Styles look alot better in their eyes and it's what AJ deserve's, and on your last statement I think your wrong look at what WWE is doing right now with CM Punk(Who by the way is more over than most guys in the company, I mean he was the main guy getting cheered on at this past Summer Slam on team with DX and The Hardyz and he recived the loudest pops)having him lose to Hardcore Holly, I don't give a flying f*ck if Punk has a big head or not he's the most backable star in ECW(Yeah over RVD)and should be destroying guys like Holly, so I don't think you can say the WWE wouldn't do it too.

You are probably right that it won't make a difference to his career, but it would hurt his push in TNA to have him lose to their guys though - in any way. They know that he is a great talent that can build their product up, so we won't see him being squashed any time soon. That is how much they want to push him. They saw how the WWE misused him, and they do not want to do the same to him. Instead of making him go over them like he did, they probably should have stuck him in a mid-high card feud to settle him into TNA. But they have gone over the top in building him and ruining others. While I think that they should build him up to be a big star there, I don't think they should tear down established careers like they have been. Christian did deserve to be pushed better than he was in the WWE, but he did not have the accolades that Angle has. He wasn't the most popular or talented wrestler in the WWE, so they were foolish in this case to push him as better than the competition, which they did by making him champion soon after he came in. At least though, he had the ability to work with other guys in feuds that were competitive.

Now this is where we disagree Angle is Angle him losing the thrid match against Joe (As he should have) wouldn't have hurt him in anyway, him having competitive matches against AJ and Abyss wouldn't have made him look bad in anyway even if he had lost to any of the above named talent as they are TNA's best people wouldn't have thought anyless of Angle, Now as far as Christain I think he deserved his push way more then Angle because of the same reason's you named, when Christain came in he and TNA said that WWE was holding him back and now free of their creative control he would become a impact player, they had to make CHristain a bankable star but Angle already is one which is the reason I believe Christain push was and still is a good decidion and Angle's win-lose-or draw is still going to be Kurt Angle one of the best wrestlers of our times.

I think that it would definitely do a lot more to TNA if they were to have him lose to some of their talent rather than destroy them, but they want to assure everyone that he is their new top talent, and it is unfair and stupid to do to AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.

I totally agree with you hear, I think they did a good joe setting up the Joe-Angle feud on such short notice, and I don't think that Angle dominated or destroyed Joe but I just think that Joe(as TNA's unbeatable monster for month's) should have gone over in their feud ans AJ heel or not should have at the very least had a competive match with Kurt.

I agree with that. They need to get past Angles attitude and show them that he cannot boss them around like he has probably been doing. The guy has so much ego that he will leave them as soon as he is not winning. I would love to see his back if this was the case because all that does is infuriate the young guys who have to work hard to achieve what they get. They see a major player in Angle though, and I think they are willing to ruin some young guys careers for him, which is a disgrace. Again, they are just using his heel turn (AJ's) as an excuse to make him look weak against another guy. Kurt should not be allowed to call the shots because he won't have AJ or Joe to squash after a while.

Like I said maybe not today or tomorrow but one day this will cause a problem as Angle has a WWE size ego and will rub alot of the smaller stared TNA guys the wrong way sooner rather then later, you have already seen it happen with Christain coming in as that's what drove Monty Brown to WWE as he wanted a title regin but Christain then Sting stole has spot, i'm just waiting to see who Angle will drive away as I think it's only a matter of time.

That sounds like a good idea, but I think they wanted him to make an impact. I think that they should have let him get over the fact that he is a TNA man now, and cut some promos about what the WWE did to him. I think he could have been either a mentor to some X-Division guys when he came in, or he could have done a Kevin Nash/Samoa Joe thing and do a heel run in the division. This will probably not destroy as much reputation as AJ had done to him, because everyone respects the underdog. I am all for seeing competition between the young guys and Angle, but that is not what TNA is looking for. They want to present him as the top guy, but that has an adverse effect on them because it ruins young guys careers. Having him explode like he has may have made everyone forget about his WWE ties, but again they have pushed him too far. I would not want to be facing Angle if I was a young guy. Especially on Impact where they are bound to make it a squash. Like you said, it would not hurt to have Angle lose here and there to guys like AJ and Joe. It would only be beneficial to them.

I know they wanted Angle to be a top guy quickly but it really in my opinion hurt some of their top talent and overall product as Angle comes in and makes TNA look like the small leagues, and what I exactly mean by that is Angle was barely out of WWE before he was stopping TNA's top stars, even though I get the point about TNA needing him to be a immediate impact player I still think they should have slowed down the Angle's main event development and focused on making Angle more TNA than WWE.

I don't see how they could have pushed Angle as a main event star if he wasn't going to face guys like AJ and Joe. He had to be put against credible guys but he has ruined it, and what I think should have been a steady rise is one that has rocketed off and blew people off the ladder they had worked so hard to climb. He is a new guy, but now that I think of it, it is pretty stupid that they have a former WWE star tear apart their best talent. That is the price you pay for buying a cocky SOB though.

I have to say I agree and I know they couldn't have made him a immediate main event star but they shouldn't have anyway as Angle needed a little more time away from WWE TV to be considered a TNA guy, I mean I see him week after week on TNA and still consider him a WWE guy it takes time to make that change over, and that's why I believe TNA should have gone with a slower build up to Angle becoming a full-time main event TNA headlining star but the rest of your comments are right on point as I would have never made the decidion to have Angle come in and make my talent look less then the very best, and it's not so much the beat AJ, Aybss, and Joe as most of the wins he has he makes them look weak in the ring (well not really Joe), if all the matches had been highly competitve and Angle won I would probaly still have a small problem with it but at the very least we could say he's getting the TNA guys over making them look good against a true Mega star in wrestling.

 

[kyle_wwe]

FUCK THAT STUBID TNA. They dont even have a square ring. they get like 500 people per show, wwe gets 10 times that much. fuck tna

DAMN STRAIT, TNA SUCKS, AND THEY WILL NEVER BEAT WWE!

 

[Kasey]

DAMN STRAIT, TNA SUCKS, AND THEY WILL NEVER BEAT WWE!

Wow, spam much, cool guy? Please regale the rest of the class with some rationale behind your lovely little post here. Please, do your worst. I for one would really love to get a look at your well-formed opinions and maybe have a little verbal sparring session about them. Whad'ya say?

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Here, here. The main thing that makes TNA superior to WWE in my eyes on a consistent basis is the workrate. Definitely worth the money and always containing a level that is leagues ahead of what their Stamford counterparts put out. No one has forgotten that Russo is running the show. It's obvious with the TV product they put forth these days. In a way TNA is all about the wrestling, because the vast majority of their PPVs actually deliver and are worth the hype/purchase price or sometimes even more. WWE hasn't been able to say that for a few years now as the majority of their main-eventers can't work their way out of a wet paper sack (all three World Champions are the prime culprits). Sure, the VKM and X-division storylines are not everyone's cup of tea (and that's putting it mildly), but when it comes time for the X-division matches to take place on the PPVs, they still stomp anything from up north hands down. As a lesser of two evils, I'll take VKM's semi-shoots over Diet DX any day of the week. Would I love to see both of those storylines? No. However, I can basically choose which one I can stand more...and it ain't DX.

Sometimes I think TNA can be way too much about wrestling. I know that sounds absurd- but whatever happened to telling a story in the ring? It's great to see fantastic wresling in TNA, but there's more to it then that.

I'm no huge fan of DX myself, but you have to hand it to both Triple H and HBK for being able to have great psychology in the ring, no matter if it is "Diet DX."

Whoever said you needed to kill yourself because WWE does suck? No one. You miss the point of his and my views on that company entirely. We don't ask for anything more quality-wise than they've given in the past. We ask that they don't market to us like we're complete $hitheads. We ask that they actually hold themselves to a standard of excellence with regards to the workrate, rather than just getting by like they've done for years now. We ask that they try to book intelligently instead of giving us sideshows like the "Kiss My Ass Club", Umaga, Khali, K-Fed, Donald/Rosie, and a plethora of other completely ridiculous maneuvers that do NOTHING to elevate the quality of the show. Yes, they are still making money. I wouldn't expect for them to do less given the entrenched foothold they have in the industry and the near five-year monopoly they had over American television being completely untested by another company. And yes, they are still the most popular wrestling production in the world. They also have the largest exposure...so what'd you expect? If you don't wish to have standards, that's definitely your problem and not that of us that watch with actual scrutiny.

Why must fans overanalyze everything? Umaga- he's always getting flamed and for what reason? They guy's a decent wrestler who makes a great heel and his partnership with Armando Alejandro Estrada reminds of the old mathes that I've seen, where monster like heels had managers. Just because Umaga isn't an acrobat that can do 1000 different moves, doesn't mean people should treat him like a some fat-guy the WWE picked up and made a wrestler. As for K-Fed, Rosie/Trump, and the Kiss My Ass Club, well those are rather small things in my opinion that don't effect the WWE brand overall.

Overall, like I said before, the WWE is still great. TNA is up and coming, no doubt about that, but I don't feel the same excietment watching a TNA show then I do watching a WWE one.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Kasey]

Sometimes I think TNA can be way too much about wrestling. I know that sounds absurd- but whatever happened to telling a story in the ring? It's great to see fantastic wresling in TNA, but there's more to it then that.

That's what good wrestling does. Try Wrestlemania 20. Most of the card for me was a wash, but then Benoit, HBK, and HHH put on a clinic that for my money outshined nearly any other WM main event in history because they took the audience on a forty-minute rollercoaster with guts and pure athleticism and skill.

I'm no huge fan of DX myself, but you have to hand it to both Triple H and HBK for being able to have great psychology in the ring, no matter if it is "Diet DX."

Oh, I know they've got the psychology in spades. My biggest irritation, though, is that it's been wasted. What I see is two future hall-of-famers who basically had 2006 wasted when they could've spent some of their last great physical encounters really digging deep in that legacy like they were doing a few years back. That's why I'm irritated. Not because I'd ever doubt their talents.

Why must fans overanalyze everything? Umaga- he's always getting flamed and for what reason? They guy's a decent wrestler who makes a great heel and his partnership with Armando Alejandro Estrada reminds of the old mathes that I've seen, where monster like heels had managers. Just because Umaga isn't an acrobat that can do 1000 different moves, doesn't mean people should treat him like a some fat-guy the WWE picked up and made a wrestler. As for K-Fed, Rosie/Trump, and the Kiss My Ass Club, well those are rather small things in my opinion that don't effect the WWE brand overall.

I personally think Umaga is a great wrestler. He reminds me of a young Rodney Anoia and I think he moves like a goddamn freight train in that ring. What I can't stand is the gimmickry. It's like the company up and decided to de-evolve into some hodgepodge of crapola from the early nineties when we were seeing gimmicks like Gobbledeygook and Mantaur. You may not see those as being more than a drop in the bucket, but some of us do. I guess it all comes down to what you find important and to what standards you hold the "E" to. I just get pissed when I realize they have loads of talent and instead of showcasing it, they spend airtime doing crap like you just mentioned. Some see harmless entertainment...I see comsmically wasted opportunites for the company to break new ground.

Overall, like I said before, the WWE is still great. TNA is up and coming, no doubt about that, but I don't feel the same excietment watching a TNA show then I do watching a WWE one.

Flames Out
Dragon

That's cool, Dragon. Everyone has their own personal tastes and flavors that they prefer. I wouldn't be so critical of the WWE/F, if I wasn't reared on it as a child. I hold what Vince does with his product to very high scrutiny because at times, they've given me what I feel is some of the best entertainment ever. In turn, I also feel they've done the polar opposite. Especially lately.

 

[Shining Wizard]

TNA vs. WWE

Ok, first off I have been done with TNA since day one. I did not jump on the band waggon when they got Kurt Angle or Prime Time debut like most did.

Here are the benefits of watching TNA. Great entertainment and matches. The TNA impact shows haven't had great matches lately but they only have one hour and are trying to progress with feuds. But by ordering a TNA PPV for only $30 you get the best 3 full hours of wrestling. They usually end at 11 on the dot but sometimes they end before like WWE. WWE only give you 2 hours and 45 minutes or less. Never More. Which is a waste of money especially at $40. It's ridiculous having to pay $40 for a wrestling pay per view. Especially when it doesnt end exactly at the time the TV guide says its going to end. TNA also different super stars, most noticable Aj Styles, Christopher Daniels and Samoa Joe. They also have different match types that are unique. Such as The King of The Mountain match. It's a reverse ladder match. Also they have a six sided ring and a traditional six sides of steel match. These matches and different then those from WWE and imo there better.

These are the benefits of WWE. For starters, they have the traditional four sided ring. Some wrestling fans hate the six sided ring and donn't find it traditional. They have alot of home grown talent and alot of star power something TNA some what lacks. They have been around longer and have more money so they travel to your home towns where you can buy tickets and be there live. Something TNA does not have enough money for. They are traveling for Lockdown tho but to a small arena so the seats are limited.

Yes TNA makes some mistakes. WWE does too. You shouldn't bash a company before giving it a yearly trial. The first time you watch it you might not like it because your not familiar with the names. For example, I was watching WSX today and I wasn't familiar with some names but I still liked it and I hope to learn the names of the superstars. So before you bash TNA watch it for a year and order some ppv's and then you can bash it. Same goes for WWE.

I am pro TNA and con WWE. I have been watching WWE since I was 4 or 5. Wrestling is a family tradition so I was born into watching it. WWE used to be good but it lost some presitgue. Not the WWE belt has been reduced to crap. The way the belt looks is crappy. A spinner steals from the prestigue of the belt itself. Where as the NWA title has full prestigue. Yes the title change hand with in two months sometimes but it never ended in a day. The NWA World Heavyweight title has never switched title in one day, maybe two weeks but never one day. Yet the WWE championship and World Heavyweight Championship has their prestigue decreased. From when it was in WCW to WWE. The WWE Championship switched hands in one day on two occasions. I believe once with Taker and once with Kane. Stone Cold beat them both the day he lost the title to them at the PPV. Im not sure about Taker but Kane is a definite.

The X division is way better than the cruiserweight division. They have a full league of faces and heels. The only reason Gregory Helms has held the title for so long is because they ran out of faces for him to destroy. Hell Batista slapped the title out of Helms hand thus diminishing the title even more like it doesn't even matter. Where as the X division has good matches. There not only about spots despite what many people may think.

Lets now discuss the two tag divisions. WWE tag division is down the drain. Rated RKO are champions yet they supposably broke up on RAW when Orton threw Edge out of the ring. Cryme Time are the future #1 contenders for the title but I doubt they will get a shot before WM. I mean I dont see how they can steal credibility from Rated RKO by having Cryme Time beat them. A new Tag that hasn't even developed themselves as competition for Rated RKO. WWECW doesn't even have a tag division. SD! has London/Kendrick. I like them but they are running out of tag teams to face to. The only two competition for them is the Regal/Taylor and Duece and Domino. After that then what?

TNA's Tag divison has been crackling to but still provides more variety. They still have VKM, Team 3D, LAX, Dutt/Lethal, Seretonin(Maverick Matt and Frankie Kazarian), and last but not least Hoyt/Killings. AMW broke up because of mis-communication. Same goes for Dimond in the rough but still this Team 3D and LAX feud will go long term which will make up of good matches and segments something WWE cant do. So imo, TNA's Tag division is better than WWE's.

Ok now onto my last point. My last point is the fact that WWE fans contradict themselves by saying WWE reject go to TNA. If you say that then I can justify myself when WWE is full of WCW rejects. Such as Booker T, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Ric Flair and etc. That list can go on and on. Yes if you guys can call Angle a reject then I can name all of those rejects. Since when is Rhino, Ron Killings, Kurt Angle and etc reject. My main point is those guys left for better careers and thats the same reason Eddie(RIP), Rey Mysterio, Chavo Guerrero and etc left WCW for WWE. Not because there rejects but for better careers which is what they got.

So in conclusion I like TNA better because they provide more variety. There tag, X division and Heavy Weight division or all togeather better then WWE's. I just like TNA's better wrestling and how they always give you a good ppv where as if you order a WWE PPV you have that fealing of being ripped off.

This has been going on for a while now. So hopefully my post helps settle this situation even tho its going to keep going on forever due to the fact the WWE fans won't give up and admit TNA is better and Vice-Versa with TNA fans.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I think it's entirely a matter of opinion. WWE bores me the majority of the time, but it does surprise me now and then with great matches. On the other hand, it is difficult to find anything TNA-related that doesn't entertain the pans off you, for me anyway. Nothing will ever compare to the Attitude era but, IMHO, nobody supplies better mainstream wrestling than TNA.

 

[Abyss]

I agree with sam, attitude just dominates everything and always will, however TNA Should take over everything available now. It deserves to.

 

[Kasey]

Rome wasn't built in a day and no other wrestling promotion in the history of the U.S. has to fight the uphill battle that TNA has. They only have 1 hour each week at present to broadcast on. WWE has six that they just have set aside for fresh programming (and that's not even counting the weekends). They only have roughly five years worth of time spent in working on expanding their company, whereas WWF has a shade better than that (and that's just with Vince Jr. at the helm). I'm optimistic as it gets, but I just hope some of the proposed insanity Angle was discussing the other day (Hogan, Show) doesn't come to pass. TNA needs to be forward-thinking and not backpedaling through other eras like WCW did. As for now, though, I like their programming (as little as we get) tons more than the hours that McMahon $hits out each week.

 

[rhcp22]

Rome wasn't built in a day and no other wrestling promotion in the history of the U.S. has to fight the uphill battle that TNA has. They only have 1 hour each week at present to broadcast on. WWE has six that they just have set aside for fresh programming (and that's not even counting the weekends). They only have roughly five years worth of time spent in working on expanding their company, whereas WWF has a shade better than that (and that's just with Vince Jr. at the helm). I'm optimistic as it gets, but I just hope some of the proposed insanity Angle was discussing the other day (Hogan, Show) doesn't come to pass. TNA needs to be forward-thinking and not backpedaling through other eras like WCW did. As for now, though, I like their programming (as little as we get) tons more than the hours that McMahon $hits out each week.

I'm sure Angle was just shooting for some good publicity. Big Show is being reported as having way too many injuries to return to the ring, and Hogan who is already a big part of WWE Legends and the HOF would be giving all that up and for what? To wrestle for TNA? I'm sure he would rather do his casual 3 month stints and collect his multi million dollar paycheck then get in the ring with a bunch of TNA guys (at this point in his career I don't think he is too concerned with getting real physical).

 

[Abyss]

I agree with the city wasn't buolt in one day, and that TNA has a massive uphill struggle. However, TNA will soon get 2 hours, so WWE really should start taking them as a serious SERIOUS threat.

 

[Kasey]

I'm sure Angle was just shooting for some good publicity. Big Show is being reported as having way too many injuries to return to the ring, and Hogan who is already a big part of WWE Legends and the HOF would be giving all that up and for what? To wrestle for TNA? I'm sure he would rather do his casual 3 month stints and collect his multi million dollar paycheck then get in the ring with a bunch of TNA guys (at this point in his career I don't think he is too concerned with getting real physical).

I'm figuring on it being nothing more than a shot at smarks just to give us something to talk about. There are other guys that I definitely wouldn't mind seeing make a jaunt to TNA, but Hogan and Show damn sure aren't in that category. And you're right about the money situation. Hogan at this point definitely wouldn't downgrade himself into wrestling at smaller arenas, but only likes his ego stroked with big money, big events, big matches, and big wins (even and especially when he doesn't deserve to win).

 

[Kasey]

I agree with the city wasn't buolt in one day, and that TNA has a massive uphill struggle. However, TNA will soon get 2 hours, so WWE really should start taking them as a serious SERIOUS threat.

This is what I'm really hoping for. A 2 hour show would definitely be the next big step into jockeying for a better position of leverage when telling stories and showcasing talent instead of jamming one hour of programming full of storylines and leaving the wrestling what's left over.

 

[Kaedon]

what the hell is TNA fighting against? They have a global corporation backing them, they just struck a multi-media deal, dont give me that crap. ECW had a way harder time coming up, and much like ECW, TNA is going to crash and burn.