UFC on Fox 1: JDS vs. Cain Velasquez

[JWGunslinger]

Very true, but JDS took the longer road to the title and he's taken out the likes of Werdum and Carwin. Not saying that Cain had an easy route but JDS has been fighting the best and considering what he did here tonight I definitely don't see Brock beating him and Overeem would have to get pretty lucky. Dos Santos has the best hands in the division, he has the TD defense and if it goes to the ground which isn't likely he can work from there. I'll admit I thought Cain was going to retain in his first defense but that was back when I saw it being a rematch with Brock or a fight with Carwin.

 

[The Best]

That's what made picking a side so hard for this fight. Both the fact that they seemed so even and that both of them seem like great guys and role models.

Edit: Also, there is no doubt that before this fight JDS had a much better resume than Cain.

 

[jmt225]

JDS is what Fedor's fans pretended he was.

Come on now, Guy. JDS wasn't even able to finish Roy Nelson or Shane Carwin.

Also, Fedor was undefeated for 10 years against the best talent in the Heavyweight Division. JDS has only been in the UFC for 3 years, and this title reign won't last long.

 

[The Best]

Brock looks terrified. He honestly looks like he's about to cry.

Also, shut up Dana. If JDS did that in the 4th round and Cain never shot for a take down you wouldn't be saying that.

 

[Remix]

JDS is what Fedor's fans pretended he was.

Someone who went undefeated for the best part of a decade and beat some of the bigger names in the division?

 

[jmt225]

Very true, but JDS took the longer road to the title and he's taken out the likes of Werdum and Carwin. Not saying that Cain had an easy route but JDS has been fighting the best and considering what he did here tonight I definitely don't see Brock beating him and Overeem would have to get pretty lucky. Dos Santos has the best hands in the division, he has the TD defense and if it goes to the ground which isn't likely he can work from there. I'll admit I thought Cain was going to retain in his first defense but that was back when I saw it being a rematch with Brock or a fight with Carwin.

That Werdum fight was a fluke. No one knew who JDS was, and Werdum was coming off a long lay-off and looked in horrible shape. Werdum would do much better against JDS were they to fight again (maybe not win, but he wouldn't get knocked out so quickly).

And I'm not trying to take anything away from dos Santos, but Cain looked like shit here and I'm just not convinced JDS is this unbeatable Heavyweight.

 

[jmt225]

Brock looks terrified. He honestly looks like he's about to cry.

Lol... I'm not Brock's biggest fan, but that dude isn't scared of a human being walking on this planet. If Dana told him right now he wanted to scrape the fight with Overeem and pit him against JDS, Brock would take it in a heartbreak.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Nothing but looping, sloppy punches where only one really connected and it put the guy out. That's not worth months of hype and makes the sport look bad. They should have aired Guida vs. Bendo from the get-go. A 1 fight show from was a mistake, especially when it's Heavyweights.

I don't think it was bad. It showed the unpredictability of MMA, it wasn't boring, and we had a KO and a title change on network TV. I do agree that instead of replaying what they showed on UFC Primetime, they should have played Bendo/Guida.

What would have been had was if that fight wound up like Travis Browne vs. Rob Broughton.

 

[JWGunslinger]

That Werdum fight was a fluke. No one knew who JDS was, and Werdum was coming off a long lay-off and looked in horrible shape. Werdum would do much better against JDS were they to fight again (maybe not win, but he wouldn't get knocked out so quickly).

And I'm not trying to take anything away from dos Santos, but Cain looked like shit here and I'm just not convinced JDS is this unbeatable Heavyweight.

I wouldn't call it a fluke, but I do agree that Werdum wasn't at his best. It'd take a while longer were that fight to go down again but I do think that Junior would still KO him at some point.

Junior isn't that unbeatable champion but I do believe with the guys who are currently on deck to fight him are not going to be the ones that dethrone him. I say he defends against the winner over Overeem-Lesnar and then drops it.

I also like the point you made about Cain's chin, Roy and Cro Cop took ten times the damage and survived, well Mirko did longer. But I had a feeling ever since that Kongo fight that when Cain faced a legit stiker he was in for some trouble if he took a power shot.

 

[The Best]

Lol... I'm not Brock's biggest fan, but that dude isn't scared of a human being walking on this planet. If Dana told him right now he wanted to scrape the fight with Overeem and pit him against JDS, Brock would take it in a heartbreak.

The crying part was a little over exaggerated. Maybe it was just me, but I saw something in Brock's face.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Definitely would have been better off airing Bendo and Guida though, don't know why they wouldn't since it was the closest thing to a guaranteed barn burner.

 

[The Best]

I don't see Bendo being able to take Edgar to the ground, or if he does, without Frankie getting him down and beating on him first. JMT, you said that Bendo has GSP-like takedowns, but they're clearly nothing near GSP's. I'm not putting down Henderson, as he is now clearly a top 3 lightweight (behind Frankie and Melendez), but I don't see him beating Edgar. Does this come from an extreme New Jersey bias? Yes, but I see Frankie walking out of his fight with Benson with the title around his waist.

 

[Stormtrooper]

The crying part was a little over exaggerated. Maybe it was just me, but I saw something in Brock's face.

What you saw is what we like to call disappointment. As he said he wanted a rematch with Cain. Cain lost, and now Brock will be working towards a title fight with JDS instead of a Title Fight/Rematch with Cain.


I did not get to watch the prelims, but I think it would be fair to say that if this was a PPV, they would have built a fairly big card, not just 1 bout (albeit a huge, huge bout). Worst case scenario the last few prelims would have been on the main card.

And short =/= bad. This was short, but it was a good type of short, especially for the mainstream newcomers. The fight was exciting, they had enough time post-fight on the main program to be able to replay/explain the KO Punch, and then sign off without going over (thus screwing up people DVRing).

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Casual fan asking a question: is Dos Santos the best boxer in the whole division?

Edit: Heavyweight. I'm asking 'cause someone said Dos Santos' boxing was exceptional.

 

[jmt225]

Casual fan asking a question: is Dos Santos the best boxer in the whole division?

Boxer? Maybe, but all around striker? Absolutely not. Overeem, Mark Hunt, Sergei, and maybe even Fedor (prime Fedor, definitely) would all outstrike JDS on the feet.

 

[Con T.]

if I may paraphrase Celebrity Deathmatch:

"And what was billed as the greatest fight of all time turns out to be a 64 second suckfest."

Maybe it wasn't billed to be the greatest fight ever, but this was sorely disappointing. I figured Velasquez was going to have issues getting his wrestling in on Dos Santos, and I felt that the earlier the match ends, the better for Dos Santos. But damn, that sucks. I can only assume Fox only allowed one fight to be shown on television. Only logical rationale I can come up with was that Dana expected this fight to go five rounds, or that Fox wanted to focus on the heavyweights, Brock, and the like. Henderson and Guida was a good fight, about what I expected. I can see everyone's rationale that this should have been on Fox, too, but maybe Fox just didn't sign on for it

 

[Stormtrooper]

Maybe it wasn't billed to be the greatest fight ever, but this was sorely disappointing. I figured Velasquez was going to have issues getting his wrestling in on Dos Santos, and I felt that the earlier the match ends, the better for Dos Santos. But damn, that sucks. I can only assume Fox only allowed one fight to be shown on television. Only logical rationale I can come up with was that Dana expected this fight to go five rounds, or that Fox wanted to focus on the heavyweights, Brock, and the like. Henderson and Guida was a good fight, about what I expected. I can see everyone's rationale that this should have been on Fox, too, but maybe Fox just didn't sign on for it

Or the more logical explanation is that they didn't have the time.

This television presentation was pretty much perfect for the UFC. You must remember that a majority of this audience has little to no prior MMA viewing experience. They have to hype the fighters to make the new people invested in the fighters (which they did damn well, I might add). Then they had to hype the product itself, which Brock/Dana did very well. Finally they had to make you interested in future cards, which they did with the talk about the Overeem fight and the champ vs. Lesnar/Overeem.

The fight itself was intense, even if it was quick. The fight and post-fight interviews didn't end until about 9:48-9:50. By the time Rogan/Goldberg were finished, it was 9:53 ish. The show was scheduled to go off the air at 10:00. The only options they had was to analyze the fight that just happened (which the audience needed, since they want to know the why and how of the fight ending so soon), or to air a prelim fight (that nobody aside form the die-hards who already saw them) that ended in 1 round (anything more and the show would go long, which FOX didn't really want).

This show was not for the die-hards. It was for the new people. They did a good job of hooking them with the exciting fight that didn't drag too long. If it went into the 3rd, 4th, or 5th round, they would have lost some viewers.

I would wager a guess that Dana expected the fight to end early, which is why they did the introductions at 9:30. If he expected a long fight, they would have started earlier, and then they'd air a prelim most likely.

 

[Shinjo]

Boxer? Maybe, but all around striker? Absolutely not. Overeem, Mark Hunt, Sergei, and maybe even Fedor (prime Fedor, definitely) would all outstrike JDS on the feet.

You completely mistake an MMA striker with a pure striker. JDS would oustrike Sergei, Hunt and Overeem in an MMA bout. This isn't kickboxing dude. Plus Overeem has barely showed that he can hang with the elite, he beat Werdum in an awful performance and knocked out Rogers. Top competetiion for sure.

Plus, I'm not sure what you guys were watching but Valesquez looked no worse than he did against Nogueira or Lesnar, he just got caught by the hardest hitter in the heavyweight division bar Shane Carwin. JDS has excellent timing and great footwork, Cain needed to clinch or get inside- he didn't. Overeem is unproven.

Plus, Edgar will outbox Henderson on his way to a decision. Henderson has above average striking at best but he can't fuck with the speed or footwork of Edgar.

 

[Shinjo]

And also, any fighter who made their name on the Japanese circuit deserves 30% of their orginial hype and admiration. Apparently Hioki and Kid were among the 'best'.

 

[Shinjo]

Plus, Overeem lost a couple of striking exchanges to Werdum when they fought.

 

[jmt225]

LOL

Shinjo, name one really good striker JDS has defeated? You could argue he got outstruck by Cro Cop in the 1st Round of their fight. And that's post prime Cro Cop, mind you. What really makes you think JDS is this elite striker? He hasn't fought one great striker. He's beat nothing but grapplers.

And also, any fighter who made their name on the Japanese circuit deserves 30% of their orginial hype and admiration. Apparently Hioki and Kid were among the 'best'.

Oh, you're one of these fans, huh?

Riddle me this... when Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture went to Japan, why did both guys their asses handed to them, huh? Go look at how well Americans do in Japan... it's pretty similar how Japanese fighters have transitioned to the states.

Also, people overstate how many "failures" have come out of Japan. Rampage, Dan Henderson, Anderson Silva, Cro Cop, Fedor, Big Nog, Shogun etc. all built their names on the Japanese circuit and they've all had success in the states. Just because a Japanese fighter has yet to really make an impact doesn't mean the Japanese circuit as a whole should be discredited.

And Hioki IS one of the best Featherweights in the World. Most fighters look bad in their first fight in the UFC. Jon Jones struggled against a bum, Rampage was having trouble with Marvin Eastman before tapping that glassjaw, Anthony Pettis looked horrible, Shogun didn't do well, etc.

Hioki did look bad, granted, but he still managed to win. And it doesn't take away the fact that this is a guy who beat Mark Hominick twice, dominated Marlon Sandro, and is legit one of the best grapplers in the sport. Wait to you see his next fight before you start spouting horseshit that he's overrated.

 

[jmt225]

Plus, Overeem lost a couple of striking exchanges to Werdum when they fought.

And Chael Sonnen rocked Anderson Silva twice in their fight. Would you say Chael is a better striker than Anderson? No, you wouldn't. At least, I hope you wouldn't.

The reason why Anderson and Overeem got "outstruck" was because they were looking to avoid getting taken down. They weren't expecting punches to be thrown, which is why they got hit. However, you put those two in there with strikers, they'll fight completely different. Overeem would not fight against JDS as he did against Werdum.

 

[Shinjo]

LOL

Shinjo, name one really good striker JDS has defeated? You could argue he got outstruck by Cro Cop in the 1st Round of their fight. And that's post prime Cro Cop, mind you. What really makes you think JDS is this elite striker? He hasn't fought one great striker. He's beat nothing but grapplers.



Oh, you're one of these fans, huh?

Riddle me this... when Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture went to Japan, why did both guys their asses handed to them, huh? Go look at how well Americans do in Japan... it's pretty similar how Japanese fighters have transitioned to the states.

Also, people overstate how many "failures" have come out of Japan. Rampage, Dan Henderson, Anderson Silva, Cro Cop, Fedor, Big Nog, Shogun etc. all built their names on the Japanese circuit and they've all had success in the states. Just because a Japanese fighter has yet to really make an impact doesn't mean the Japanese circuit as a whole should be discredited.

How about knocking out Valesques? or completely dominating Nelson, or Carwin? Valesquez is a great striker, Nelson and Carwin are both good strikers. More than anyone can say for Overeem, Valesquez and a host of top heavyweights out there.

First of all, Liddel did fine in Japan. I really should've been more specific- the Japenese circuit post American MMA domination and the post-Pride era. Almost every fighter whose made their name in Japan during that era has failed miserably in America- even against substandard competition.

And Hioki IS one of the best Featherweights in the World. Most fighters look bad in their first fight in the UFC. Jon Jones struggled against a bum, Rampage was having trouble with Marvin Eastman before tapping that glassjaw, Anthony Pettis looked horrible, Shogun didn't do well, etc.

Jon Jones was not billed as the antidote to the greatest featherweight fighter of all time, he was inexperienced, plus he took the fight on two weeks notice as a replacement. And he dominated. And I'm not sure what you were watching but Pettis nearly finished Guida multiple times. In fact, he looked better against Guida then he did against his next opponent. Shogun fought Griffin, Hioko fought Roop. I wouldn't have had a problem if he fought Mendes or someone top ten but it was George fucking Roop?

Hioki did look bad, granted, but he still managed to win. And it doesn't take away the fact that this is a guy who beat Mark Hominick twice, dominated Marlon Sandro, and is legit one of the best grapplers in the sport. Wait to you see his next fight before you start spouting horseshit that he's overrated.

Marlon Sandro? You mean the dude who got KO'D by Pat Curran?

So what you're saying is that because he beat another Japenese ciscuit fighter who got exposed, he's top?

And Hominick has lost plenty of times to shitty fighters.

LOL I bet you were one of those guys saying KID would bounce back? He fought an even shittier fighter and got his ass handed. What I witnessed from Hiko was terrible clinch based takedowns, plodding footwork, a weak body frame and an inability to finish. He won't beat Jose Aldo, he won't beat any featherweight with strong takedown defence and decent striking.

I was overstating the reduction of praise Japenese fighters should get, however not one should be ranked high until they fight good North American competition.

 

[Shinjo]

And Chael Sonnen rocked Anderson Silva twice in their fight. Would you say Chael is a better striker than Anderson? No, you wouldn't. At least, I hope you wouldn't.

The reason why Anderson and Overeem got "outstruck" was because they were looking to avoid getting taken down. They weren't expecting punches to be thrown, which is why they got hit. However, you put those two in there with strikers, they'll fight completely different. Overeem would not fight against JDS as he did against Werdum.

It's MMA buddy, If a fighter outstrikes you by setting up strikes with takedowns then he is a better MMA striker then you are. Now, he's not a better pure striker then you, then again, this isn't K-1 kickboxing. Silva had broken ribs also, which doesn't help. But you know, if Sonnen is successful in putting Silva of by the threat of a takedown and oustriking him in that manner, then I consider him a better striker for this format, but this won't happen in the first place.

It depends on JDS's approach, TBH. I can see JDS changing levels and moving to put Overeem off. Funny thing is, you even said JDS has fought grapplers yet he's decisively outstruck each one of them, while Overeem couldn't do that to Werdum who has AWFUL takedowns. Carwin> Werdum. I'd be happy to eat my words if Overeem proves me wrong against Lesnar since he's one of my favourite guys to watch but he's not proven to be better than JDS.

And JDS isn't unbeatable, Cain could win in a rematch, Barnett and Cormier would allso put up an intriguing fight. A lot of guys could beat JDS.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Apropos of nothing, just watched Pacquaio/Marquez... judges committed highway robbery.