TNA Impact 5/5/2011 - The Thread (I Think)

[It's Damn Real!]

I believe you. I also like you as we've always been cordial and fair with each other. Last night I was upset to come to the forums to find no LD made and I suppose the first place I pointed blame was at you. I understand if there was a reason behind it but my mind was racing and that combined with the boycott of the LD that I know is going on got to me. I still shouldn't have taken that out on you but it does bother me.

Now, I'm not going to be called out for the time I spend around here. I pick and choose my activity at wrestlezone as my time is limited. I like do the LDs because I like interacting with different type of fans while a show is going on. I just felt that the nature of the LD isn't what it should be and it bothered me.

I still continue to hope that this grudge and boycott thing will end, but I do understand your schedule and I do understand that your job isn't easily. Please don't think this is a reflection on you. I was upset at the situation and you were a name to put with the problem, that's all.

Understandable, dude. No hard feelings.

 

[a0161613]

From the latest KO thread:



Although probably the bigger give away was

I'll be honest, I'm not enjoying it a lot at the moment.

 

[shattered dreams]

I'd like to point out it isn't a boycott. At least not from my perspective and I think most of those that used to participate feel similarly. We are practicing what we preach. If you do not enjoy something, why waste your time on it? I do not enjoy the LDs much anymore and they were decreasing my enjoyment of the show in general. That is why I am usually not in them anymore. It isn't a boycott, it is just common sense.

 

[JJYanks121]

As for the Dreamer thing, it came off to me a little like when Shawn Michaels joined JBL. He didn't want to, but felt like he had no other choice. Same as Rhyno a few months ago actually who then got fired anyway.

The difference between the Michaels storyline and the Dreamer one though is that Michaels is a good actor who people care about while Tommy Dreamer is.......errr Tommy Dreamer. Had this been someone fans cared about (and I suggested it with Kurt Angle 8 months ago so this whole thing could have some sense behind it), it might work. With Tommy Dreamer, I lost interest the second I saw his face.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I've never actually even participated in one of those proposed MSN live discussions. I do come here whenever I have the time, regardless of how negative the thread is. I may not stay long if what I'm reading annoys me too much, but when I get the chance, I try to come here, so just to echo SD, it's not a boycott. Just a general grievance.

 

[shattered dreams]

I didn't follow the Michaels-JBL thing but didn't Michaels not have a choice for some reason or another?

 

[X]

I know, right? God forbid they want to watch a show they actually enjoy without being forced into defending their opinions week-after-week.

Nobody is forcing you or anyone to defend your opinions. You CHOOSE to do that. You realize there's an ignore option on your profile right? You can choose ignore anyone you don't want to see posts from.

Nobody forces you to defend TNA. You do it voluntarily.

Heavens, no! Why on earth would anyone want to go through that? What a ridiculous notion. Maybe we should just be like you and the rest of the whiney "fans" who come in here week-after-week to berate anyone for continuing to support a company you just so happen to not be pleased with, yeah? Will that make things OK?

When do I "berate" people for liking TNA? I voice my opinion on the shows I watch, which is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO. Wait, you're the only one allowed to have an opinion on TNA now? Silly me.

I was doing TNA LDs on this forum years before you even joined. I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion in them if I damn well please.

Here's a better idea: I, and everyone I can conjure up who hates WWE and RAW, come to every RAW LD for the next six months, without fail, and tear the show apart with the same regurgitated rhetoric, week-after-week, show-after-show. Then after 6 months we'll note how many times were were told to leave, and record the number of users who stopped posting in the threads regularly because of our dissenting opinion dominating the LD to the point that no one who actually enjoys the show can get a word in without being drowned in negativity. Cool?

Clearly you don't actually read or look at the RAW LDs, because there's a TON of criticism about the show every single week. And look at that...those of us that enjoy Raw still come back each week. Because we can handle someone having a different opinion, while you clearly can't from the looks of things.

Seriously, read any RAW LD. There's a ton of criticism every single week. Fuck there was more criticism about this week's RAW in the LD than has been in an Impact LD in months.

It's pretty sad that you guys can't enjoy a show without having everyone agree with your opinion on that show.

I remember that 3 weeks I watched about half of raw and commented in the LDs channeling my best KB sense of duty. Let's just say I scored a few tally marks for your study IDR. I remember X bitching a lot then I think.

Absolutely not. I have never bitched at anyone for criticizing RAW in a RAW LD. I've occasionally attempted to defend a segment/match/promo if someone shits on it and I enjoyed it, but I don't pull out the "WELL IF U DONT LIKE IT U CAN STOP WATCHING" card that you and IDR pull out every single week.

People are allowed to have differing opinions. Shocking, I know. It's just sad that you guys seemingly can't handle people disagreeing with you.

Not exactly. WWE rots the brain to such simple black and white interpretations.

Yeah that Randy Orton is such a black and white character. Not a tweener at all.

Although probably the bigger give away was

It must suck that people actually respect my opinion when they usually just laugh at yours.

 

[JJYanks121]

I didn't follow the Michaels-JBL thing but didn't Michaels not have a choice for some reason or another?

Exactly. Michaels was portrayed as having made bad investments and with the economy tanking, he was broke. Thus, JBL offered Michaels a job to work for him since JBL has made great investments and is rich. Michaels begrudgingly accepted the offer and worked for the bad guy.

Along the way, Michaels did "heel" things but you could always see in him that he didn't want to do them. Thus, you could say he was a tweener I guess who was always looking for a way out. JBL used him to get all the way to a title shot but didn't win. Eventually Michaels turned on JBL due to abuse and they had the blowoff at the Elimination Chamber show when it was still called No Way Out. Many of us thought it would be a Wrestlemania match but they decided instead to go with Michaels vs. Undertaker. Yeah, I think they made the right decision.

Anyway, it's only week one but it looks like Dreamer is doing the same thing. For whatever reason, he's helping Immortal because he has no choice. Somehow, if he didn't, bad things would happen. At least that's how it came off to me. Thus, very similar idea in the sense that the characters both did something they hated because they were backed into a corner.

 

[a0161613]

Yeah I have to ask why agreeing with X was such a bad move on my part? He has shown that he is a fan of TNA when they do things right. Same for KB and a lot of "neutral" fans on the site.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I usually participate in both Lds but couldn't yesterday because of cpu problems so its not a boycott for me either.

 

[shattered dreams]

It wasn't a bad move, it was just a giveaway that you are way down on TNA presently because X is on some mini-crusade against anything TNA currently. I was unaware there was only one "right" thing. If it is that simple why doesn't everyone just do the "right" thing?

JJ, I agree there may be some similarities but I got the impression that a key difference here was that Bully Ray was giving Dreamer no tangible rewards. Ray was playing mind games at the expense of Dreamer's position in life for his own personal amusement/benefit.

 

[a0161613]

Right, well, good. I know semantics and opinions are the beginnings of a lot of arguments here.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Nobody is forcing you or anyone to defend your opinions. You CHOOSE to do that. You realize there's an ignore option on your profile right? You can choose ignore anyone you don't want to see posts from.

Nobody forces you to defend TNA. You do it voluntarily.

Yes, I am aware there is an ignore tool, but ignoring the vast majority of complainers in these threads would be poor judgement on my part as a moderator, as my job is to maintain forum rules. How can I effectively do so if I'm taking shifts off simply because I don't want to read what someone has to say?

Oh, and when I'm asked questions directly, that's being "forced" to defend my opinions.

When do I "berate" people for liking TNA? I voice my opinion on the shows I watch, which is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO. Wait, you're the only one allowed to have an opinion on TNA now? Silly me.

OK, so maybe berate was the wrong word to use, but belittle isn't. I'll start a hand-count on the number of passive aggressive posts made about people being ******ed, idiots, morons or likewise when they support anything TNA and get back to you.

We've been over this time and again, anyway. Logic tells you if you do not enjoy something, you stop participating in it. My opinion on why I like something is not the same as yours on why you dislike it, especially when yours is used as rallying rhetoric and repeated week-after-week ("TNA's booking makes no sense", for example).

I was doing TNA LDs on this forum years before you even joined. I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion in them if I damn well please.

Congrats — want a cookie?

Clearly you don't actually read or look at the RAW LDs, because there's a TON of criticism about the show every single week. And look at that...those of us that enjoy Raw still come back each week. Because we can handle someone having a different opinion, while you clearly can't from the looks of things.

Seriously, read any RAW LD. There's a ton of criticism every single week. Fuck there was more criticism about this week's RAW in the LD than has been in an Impact LD in months.

It's pretty sad that you guys can't enjoy a show without having everyone agree with your opinion on that show.

Clearly I don't, considering I don't watch WWE programming of any kind.

Glad to see people are complaining and not just blindly swallowing whatever Vince feeds them on his golden cock anymore, though.

Consciousness is a wonderful thing, eh?

 

[JJYanks121]

It wasn't a bad move, it was just a giveaway that you are way down on TNA presently because X is on some mini-crusade against anything TNA currently. I was unaware there was only one "right" thing. If it is that simple why doesn't everyone just do the "right" thing?

JJ, I agree there may be some similarities but I got the impression that a key difference here was that Bully Ray was giving Dreamer no tangible rewards. Ray was playing mind games at the expense of Dreamer's position in life for his own personal amusement/benefit.

And why would you think Ray has any more to do with this than Immortal as a whole? Ray is PART of Immortal and he's the guy who knows Dreamer best because we'll never let ECW die. That said, you have to see that this is Immortal and most likely Hogan and Bischoff giving the old bag an ultimadum, not Bully Ray. Ray is Immortal's Big Bossman, he doesn't get to make decisions for the group.

 

[X]

It wasn't a bad move, it was just a giveaway that you are way down on TNA presently because X is on some mini-crusade against anything TNA currently. I was unaware there was only one "right" thing. If it is that simple why doesn't everyone just do the "right" thing?

You're so full of shit. Yes everyone I'm on an anti-TNA crusade! That's why I gave a positive review and recommendation for their last PPV and rated Angle vs. Jarrett as a possible MOTY candidate while calling the main event total fun. Yes, clearly I am against everything in TNA.

How hard is it for you to just accept that some people don't like certain things TNA does, and it has nothing to do with being on a "crusade"? By that logic, TNA has never ever done anything wrong whatsoever in their entire history, and anyone who says they have is just an "anti-TNA crusader". Is that what you actually believe?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Whats with this if you dont like it then dont watch it buisness? Hey how about this for a fucking idea, maybe I want TNA to succeed, and tune in every week hoping they turn the corner, and arent shit anymore? Duh?

 

[shattered dreams]

X liked two things in TNA. Halt the presses.

Anyway, I do not care who does or does not like TNA. I do not care why they feel that way. What I do find annoying is people complaining about things that they knew were obviously going to happen when they chose to watch the show. Especially when they take it to the next step and say something is obviously bad just because it isn't their personal taste. There is no universal truth of quality. There is no "right" way to book a wrestling show for an audience of more than one person.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Whats with this if you dont like it then dont watch it buisness? Hey how about this for a fucking idea, maybe I want TNA to succeed, and tune in every week hoping they turn the corner, and arent shit anymore? Duh?

This is, in large part, why I watch TNA. I like professional wrestling, and they have a spot on national television. I think the current product, overall, stinks. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't hope for improvement, and watch in hopes of this actually happening. I shouldn't have to stop watching, or complaining, seeing I'm just as important to the fanbase as anyone else on this forum.

 

[shattered dreams]

More power to you Nick. I guess my main question is why do you think they are going to change what they are doing to what you like?

 

[X]

X liked two things in TNA. Halt the presses.

Certainly debunks your entire "X crusades against EVERYTHING TNA" theory though, doesn't it? I could have chosen to focus on the negatives of that show and the Jarrett-Angle match (two ugly botches for example), but I focused on the positive. So pretty fucking clearly I enjoy some of the things TNA does, and dislike other things. Shocking I know, right? I assure you it IS possible to be a fan of a company and not have to defend every single fucking thing they do like you do. I enjoy some things TNA does, and I don't enjoy a lot of things they do. I'm not "biased" or on an "Anti-TNA crusade". I've just seen enough wrestling to know what I like, and what I don't like in a company. I would (and do) criticize the WWE, ROH, or any other company if/when they make the same poor decisions that I criticize TNA for.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

For the record, I actually don't really care that any of you come in here to bitch about the programming. I really don't. I just can't enjoy the program as much as I do otherwise when I find myself reading over critique after complaint after critique after complaint. It distracts my attention span into trying to debunk some of the nonsense being used against he company, which takes away from my ability to enjoy what's actually happening on the screen.

I also loathe what I consider overrated and abused jokes, which are unavoidable week-after-week when guys like [Matt] Hardy come out. It's obnoxious and annoying to try and objectively discuss one of his matches without having to filter out all the "Fat" Hardy jokes that are incredibly dated and no longer applicable (seeing as he's not even fat anymore).

Bottom line is this: I participate in these when I can, and when I can I will so long as I deem the discussion objective enough to maintain my interest and balance my also watching while typing. The moment the LD's turn into shit-throwing festivals and/or pissing contests (both of which make the place smell terrible) over whatever people are measuring their might against, I bail and go back to enjoying my Thursday night, alone.

 

[shattered dreams]

Amusing that you are criticizing me for using hyperbole and overstatement about you while you do the same thing to me.

You do not like an overwhelming majority of things about TNA right now and you will talk/argue about those things incessantly. Call it what you want.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I guess my main question is why do you think they are going to change what they are doing to what you like?

I don't expect them to change what they're doing. My biggest problem is in the execution of what they're doing, or how it's being done.

Take this Velvet Sky/Karen Angle/etc. storyline. I don't mind Kurt Angle looking for a woman to equalize Karen. Sound good to me. However, it's partially ruined when they allow Velvet to run wild on the mic, with zero structure. She is constantly interrupting and that gets in the way of telling the story. Same goes with Ken Anderson, each and every time he speaks. I don't want them to be scripted zombies (like you sometimes find in WWE), but a little structure and discipline couldn't hurt. Mind you, this is just an example, something I notice while watching. I pay attention to detail, and I'm sure a lot of fans do the same.

A lack of structure and discipline among the performers, hardly any attention to detail, etc., hurts the quality of the story being told. This is my opinion, I understand that, but I don't seem to be alone in how I feel about this.

 

[.]

Watched the show last night, I liked it but a few things still stick out in my mind:

- Sangriento, despite being a pathetic idea by Spike TV, is great for getting Amazing Red TV time and had a damn impressive debut despite looking like something out of chikara.

- Miss Tessmacher may be my favourite womans wrestler in wrestling today and I don't give a shit about ability.

- I found the ending comical.

- Dreamers heel turn didn't make sense but so do a few in WWE. Not everything needs to make sense.

My only negative point is that the Jay Lethal's firing has been brought up which really shouldn't.

 

[JJYanks121]

For the record, I actually don't really care that any of you come in here to bitch about the programming. I really don't. I just can't enjoy the program as much as I do otherwise when I find myself reading over critique after complaint after critique after complaint. It distracts my attention span into trying to debunk some of the nonsense being used against he company, which takes away from my ability to enjoy what's actually happening on the screen.

I also loathe what I consider overrated and abused jokes, which are unavoidable week-after-week when guys like [Matt] Hardy come out. It's obnoxious and annoying to try and objectively discuss one of his matches without having to filter out all the "Fat" Hardy jokes that are incredibly dated and no longer applicable (seeing as he's not even fat anymore).

Bottom line is this: I participate in these when I can, and when I can I will so long as I deem the discussion objective enough to maintain my interest and balance my also watching while typing. The moment the LD's turn into shit-throwing festivals and/or pissing contests (both of which make the place smell terrible) over whatever people are measuring their might against, I bail and go back to enjoying my Thursday night, alone.

Since I'm someone that is on neither side of the fence, I'd like to act as unbiased mediator. Here is what I propose:

Those who criticize TNA as seen by IDR and select others who are voicing similar opinions will cease from making jokes about Matt Hardy's weight, Hulk Hogan's age, and other cliched arguments IF IDR and the TNA boys refrain from used tired and cliched arguments to counter such as shots at the WWE that date back to 2008 when most of you say you last watched. Deal?