The WWE Womens Division:What Killed It?

[Crush1]

We all know it and we all hate it: diva's wrestling.They are sloppy annoying and are not entertaining to watch,the fans dont care most of the wrestlers dont even care, and there is no chance it is going to change

What i want to discuss is why the womens division has hit rock bottom for so many years.

A few points.

Talent:The talent that is in the wwe now are basicly worthless.There are some of them who are more conserned with getting on playboy and making money.

Diva's:The name diva's is degrading itself instead of seeing those women as wrestlers the audience and viewers see them as big-boobed attractive women
and the wwe is trying to make it an PG, family oriented show. (lol)

Playboy:Yes the famous magazine that promotes naked women.But you'l probably ask yourself this question: What does a porn magazine have to do with wrestling? well... nothing.But the fact is that most women that are in the wwe already posed for this magazine degrading themselves and their profession once more.

The Matches:I get extremely anoyed when i have to watch a diva's match that doesnt involve melina or phoenix.And whats worse is that they seem to always involve male wrestlers or make it an tag team to make it enjoyable which doesnt work.Because the other divas cant wrestle to save their lifes.

The Feuds:Womens wrestling gets basicly no time as it is and last week on raw was a perfect example of that.Phoenix the womens champ doesnt have a match with michelle the person who she's suposed to feud with and what do we see? kelly x 2 vs jillian in a match you couldnt even pay attention to because of the mic battle of Miz&Morrison vs Cryme Tyme.Instead we dont see candice at all and we see phoenix next to santino.

So to conclude my story and give an answer to the topic.Playboy and vince killed it.There isnt a possibility to save the womens division,because the fans dont give a crap and vince wont let those women actualy wrestle because he earns ratings and money from those attractive women.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

You should also ask what killed the tag team division? And the answer to both, is creative. If the WWE wanted to take the Women's Division seriously they would and could. Look at TNA's women's divison, it's getting sloppy but is still a highlight because of the talent and the way they are promoted. WWE's women's division likes the main focus to be on the looks and not their in-ring talent. Most fans of the WWE(marks not us IWC) could care less if the women could fight or not. Beth Pheonix vs. Mickie(both can wrestle) get just as much of a reaction as Kelly Vs. Leyla(both cant). The WWE could make their women's divison more of a "Wrestling division" if they hired a few more trained wrestlers and creative wrote them better, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

WWE's women's division is at a pretty good level at the moment. At least you can sit through the worst of matches right now. At its best, like Beth Phoenix vs. Melina at One Night Stand, women's wrestling in WWE can be quite good. When there are chicks like Candice or Kelly though...not so much. The sad thing, almost all the Divas that can wrestle a good match are heels like Beth Phoenix, Natalya and Victoria. Which leaves the Divas face division skint, with the few exceptions being Mickie and...okay, only Mickie.

Nothing "killed" the women's division. Playboy and Candice type pushes have come close to ruining the fun factor of women's wrestling, but overall I like women's wrestling in WWE right now. They've really started getting their shit together. I hate the way you're always assuming that when you hate something , everyone else does it as well. Give them credit where credit is due...they can't beat the TNA knockouts, but I prefer a larger focus on guys and the female wrestling as an enjoyable "sideshow" to the main event, if you will.

 

[Crush1]

WWE's women's division is at a pretty good level at the moment.

What are you basing this ridiculous statement on? The womens division still has terrible wrestlers.

At least you can sit through the worst of matches right now. At its best, like Beth Phoenix vs. Melina at One Night Stand, women's wrestling in WWE can be quite good.

Yes it can be be good if there were more than one or two talented wrestlers.
But almost the whole roster is filled with people who care more about playboy than they do about wrestling.

When there are chicks like Candice or Kelly though...not so much. The sad thing, almost all the Divas that can wrestle a good match are heels like Beth Phoenix, Natalya and Victoria. Which leaves the Divas face division skint, with the few exceptions being Mickie and...okay, only Mickie.

True.

Nothing "killed" the women's division. Playboy and Candice type pushes have come close to ruining the fun factor of women's wrestling, but overall I like women's wrestling in WWE right now.

If it isnt killed than it is in a very worse shape right now.Because almost every diva in the last 5 years has been pushed because of the playboy factor.
What is there to like when you only have a very small amount of women who can entertain the audience and wrestle?

They've really started getting their shit together. I hate the way you're always assuming that when you hate something , everyone else does it as well.

How are they getting their shit together? last monday night on raw i didnt see the womens champion in action hell even a worse wrestler like mccool gets some in-ring time,and i havent seen the build of their feud.And i'm not hating i'm simply stating my opinion and facts

Give them credit where credit is due...they can't beat the TNA knockouts, but I prefer a larger focus on guys and the female wrestling as an enjoyable "sideshow" to the main event, if you will.

If you already see it as some sideshow than that means you think they are entertaining as it is and not worth more time in the ring.Well i dont if they put on a wrestling show they have to give the audience some good wrestling wether it be women or men wrestling must still be entertaining.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Lack of talent killed the division. When you look at the roster in recent times, the best you had at a point were Lita and Trish. Neither of which were anything outstanding when it all boiled down to it. They just looked good because of the likes of Torrie and Stacey in the ring.

Go back further...Sable, Jacqueline and Luna looked dominant because they had Tori, Terri Runnells and BB keeping them company at the top.

Today, there are five girls on the roster who could say are respectable enough at a stretch.

Now, the fact is the combination of Vince thinking that T&A = talent, creative's insistance on pushing Diva's who's previous career was topless modelling (KK, Ashley, Candice) and equating that with fans wanting to get behind them because they might get them out is worrying and naive. Fact is, the T&A can't wrestle.

I realise I'm in a WWE forum here, but compare that to the other company. One which takes the top indie talent and pushes them because they are good. One which takes talented wrestlers such as Angel Williams and Talia Madison after WWE turned them down for being too ugly and not chesty enough (her words) and making them the highest rated segments, you get the feeling that if WWE concentrated on actually having WRESTLING talent, well then the Women's belt (as well as that stupid thing on Smackdown) might actually mean something

 

[CCS]

A simple lack of talent. WWE likes hiring models instead of wrestlers. If they would hire actual talented indy womens wrestlers , Their divisions would actualy be good. Lately some of the younger divas have tried to improve in the ring. I can honestly see big strides in Kelly Kelly's progress. I commend her for that and hopefully the other divas will follow her lead.

 

[LMaruko]

First off, the WWE should just get rid of that eyesore called the Diva's championship. That thing was the MOST ridiculous thing I ever thought creative added to an already floundering division.

Secondly, I think they should have the Women's Championship be defended on ALL brands, seeing as there is a limited number of female wrestlers (that are worth watching) any longer.

Thirdly, there are some wrestlers (Natalya, Katie Lea, Victoria, Beth) that have professional wrestling experience outside of the "Diva Search" and OVW/FCW, and therefore should be the stronghold of the Women's Division. Vinnie Mac should take a page from TNA and adapt lesser attractive women to make a solid Women's Division, or possibly scout more attractive women with wrestling on their resume.

IMO, I think that the Diva Search killed the Woman's Division. The term "Diva" is just a trademarked name (like the "Knockouts") to refer to the women of the WWE. But the Diva Search ended the Women's Division in the fact that the contest was specifically designed to call up female wrestlers from the developmental territories (who presumably had NO outside wrestling history or interest) by a viewer's choice. Therefore, we are stuck with gorgeous girls who modeled and got cosmetic surgery before the WWE who don't know shit about wrestling, and that's why we have such a screwed up Women's Division.

 

[K Bro 30]

I have different thoughts. I think the womens' division was at it's peak when they were also valets along with wrestlers. Think about it, I remember a Raw a couple years ago around the time Jeff Hardy shocked HHH for the IC title, the main event (yes, main event) was Stephanie McMahon (c) vs Lita for the title. They both performed very well, but the match meant something outside of just the Women's division, because the men they valet for now were out there with them, and Lita winning had an impact because it took away from the Power Trip.

Chyna had DX, Lita had the Hardy's, Trish had T&A and more.

No one is going to care about or recognize them if they go on their own names. Imagine if say Beth Phoenix managed Jericho, and Candice managed Batista, and they were to have a rematch, now all of a sudden the match automatically means a lot more. I don't know a way to go about doing it logically, but the women (I agree about not calling them Divas) have none to little name recognition because the are only involved with themselves, and alone, they are not interesting to watch. I do not want to sound sexist, I'm really not, but at this point, I think the women need to be used as valets and wrestlers alike, and when their names become more recognized, and their matches can carry more significance, then go from there.

 

[OIL]

I wouldn't say the Women's Division is dead, but it is still lacking.

For me, it's mainly Playboy. This is because ever since Divas posed for the magazine they'd get lots of hype around them, and in recent years a push leading to a WrestleMania match not even about the title. I mean, on the grandest stage of them all you're telling me that you want millions of people who pay good money to order the PPV, who are obviously wrestling fans, you're saying that you push women just because they get their tits out? And the title isn't even defended on the show, or, it just isn't as relevant?

It makes no sense, and anyone who thought of ordering the PPV to see what the fuss was about won't be overly thrilled about the angle of the match, because they're gonna think that this is it.

I went a little off topic there, but still, Playboy has resulted in the push of numerous Divas who wern't ready to be pushed in the first place, resulting in disgruntled Divas who SHOULD have been pushed, and lackluster matches due to their inexperience and inability to wrestle.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Seriously, are we going to have this discussion for every division in WWE other than the World title divisions? Let's just get down to the main problem. Unless you're already a main event level player, in the world title picture, a 2nd gen wrestler or you're Santino, you're never going to be used effectively on TV in WWE. I'm not saying that the creative team don't care or don't know what they're doing because that can't be the only element to this dismal equation. A number of the vets and other head honchos in WWE have been quoted as saying that the new talent don't really care that much about WRESTLING. JR's new blog is the most recent example. If none of these people are stepping up to the plate, the creative team are going to say 'i don't think we should put a great deal of stock in this guy' and therefore won't put them in an angle. That is why the ONLY people being used are the vets: Taker, Big Show, HHH, HBK, Jericho, JBL, Kane, Mysterio, Edge, Hardys, Chavo (don't laugh, he's a vet) and (dare i say it) Mark Henry and (to a much lesser extent due to his suspensions) Regal. The talent who actually put 110% in like Cena, Batista, Orton. The second gen guys who obviously have been shown the right way by their HOF fathers like Priceless and then of course Santino who must be the ONLY new talent that's been pushed due to his awesome mic work.

Name one other talent who is being used effectively in an angle, and not just wearing a prop designed to make us the audience give a shit. Just one. And don't say Punk because he isn't being used right now, he will be when Orton's back but that's not right now is it?

In a company with about 20 female wrestlers, 2 of them put on consistenly good matches and there's maybe 3 more that are getting to that level. Beth and Mickie have good matches consistently, and Victoria, Natalya and Melina are the others. Kelly x2 i getting better bless her but she's not there yet. Candice can sell but then how hard is it to scream on cue right? And she is over, but god knows why.

The women's division has always been last on the priority list. The best roster they had included Trish, Lita, Jazz, Victoria, Molly Holly and that was it. The women's division suffers more now because few of them are used as valets anymore in a role where they actually get involved i.e. Debra (yeah just there for the breasts but it helped Jarrett and her get over didn't it?) Sable, Jacqueline, Terri, Chyna, Luna, those are all bad female wrestlers, but they all got over by being effective valets, which i agree was a very instrumental method of getting their characters over and enticing the audience into wanting to watch them wrestle despite how bad they were. In the 90's Ivory was the ONLY female wrestler who could ACTUALLY wrestle.

The 'wrestling' aspect of the women's division hasn't changed much in terms of the actual wrestling in 10 years, but what has changed is the role of the female valet in WWE. Beth Phoenix is now playing the role of Chyna except you don't expect to see a pair of balls sticking out of her trunks, and they're kind of using Layla for this Noble/Regal thing that's kind of going on, but because it's getting barely any hype at all, it's not really going anywhere.

Overall, yeah there's plenty of female wrestler's who are there to make money and be doted on for their looks and nothing else, but there's plenty of male guys doing the same. As for the matches, i don't really see a great deal of difference, it was at it's best in the early 00's but is no worse than it was in the late 90's, and i feel it's yet another example of wrestler's expecting pushes to handed out on a silver platter and creative having little to no faith in most of the talent so they don't use them. (Both Shelton and Morrisson are good examples, they push the boat out maybe once or twice every other month and wonder why they're not doing anything worth while)

Sorry, it took me a while to get on topic but i'm kinda sick of seeing threads that start with 'What's ruining **** division in WWE, like they're separate reasons. It's the same reason for all of it as i've just explained

 

[Darkshot77]

When it is his company and the buck stops at his desk, Vinny Mac gets the blame in my book. All the other reasons can lead back to Mr. McMahon. I wasnt arround for the so called "better days" of womans wrestling, I wasnt there for Trish v. Lita, but after reading the arguments, I'm gonna have to side with Agent. Along time ago, vince came to the conclusion that women can be taught how to wrestle. Whether or not the came in with experiance or not they can be taught. So whats the point of scouting a good female wrestler when you can just find a woman good looking enough to be popular and teach her wrestling. You mold her to be what you want, its simple and effective. As a result, womans wrestling has been poor. For every woman that pickes it up quick, like Trish, you have those like Layla, Maria, and Candice. This was Vinces dicision, and this is what we have to live with.

 

[ronthony717]

I couldn't read through most of this cause the first few of comments just annoyed me.. At one point, yes the division was dieing.. Now? No its not. But first you wanna say within the past 5 yrs and Trish and Lita.. Well trish and lita along with molly holly jazz jackquline chyna (yes chyna) ivory sable and even now with mickie james beth pheonix victoria natalya ms burchil (sry can't think of her name lol) and the improving melina and kelly kelly have all made the division dominant... Candice was improving a whole lot before getting injure.. She has a lot of ring rust right now.. Now I watched kellys match from this past monday and laughed with ct and m&m and paid attention with the match and kelly kelly kicks ass.. I'm srry but even if u have to watch the match and try and block the guys out.. She pulled off somegreat moves and I heard the crowd being into it... Lita and trish pulled off the main event on raw once which was an all time classic.. Trish even pulled off an amazing match at wm facing mickie james.. Mickie and beth has put on some perfect matches already.. Torie wilson was good not great.. Molly ivory jackie chyna have all put on some great matches in the past... Yeah there were some women who killed it like maryse whose tryin to improve and mccool who isn't that great but give them time...

Yeah beth didn't put her title on the line but a womens match was going on to show other women off maybe well see kelly gettin her shot soon against pheonix when she's ready...

Playboy? Ok let's see whose done it.. Chyna and sable who have been amazing wrestlers in the past... Candice michelle. Like I said she was improving until she got injured.. Torie wilsone was a good wrestler.. Not great but wasn't bad.. ashley massaro wasn't bad at all.. I liked watching her in action.. And u keep saying kelly kelly about the playboy thing.. She has said that she doesn't wanna do it.. And even the tag division is growing again.

Everything takes time. And showing the women team with the guys is a good thing cause it is more exposure for them and for their character.. If it wasn't for santino marella I think imo that beth wouldn't be as big as she is right now.. Really do ur research before you start a thread please

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Before I even say anything, I just want to say, I'm sick and tired of having to repeat myself over this issue, but I feel it needs repeating, because people just don't get it.

Yes it can be be good if there were more than one or two talented wrestlers. But almost the whole roster is filled with people who care more about playboy than they do about wrestling.

I HATE it when people say stuff like this, HATE it. Now I know this is a forum and all, but I'm pretty much 100% sure that you're not any one of the divas so how dare you dole out how much care YOU think they have about wrestling. You don't know the amount of work these girls put in, it's the reason why the majority aren't given credit for it. Just because someone like Kelly didn't spend years in the indys doesn't mean she doesn't work hard, it doesn't mean she only cares about PB.

If it isnt killed than it is in a very worse shape right now.Because almost every diva in the last 5 years has been pushed because of the playboy factor.
What is there to like when you only have a very small amount of women who can entertain the audience and wrestle?

The last diva to be pushed because of Playboy was Maria, and before that more than a year ago was Ashley. Wow, all those other divas that were pushed between those two must've ceased to exist because you forgot to think of them when saying that.

How are they getting their shit together? last monday night on raw i didnt see the womens champion in action hell even a worse wrestler like mccool gets some in-ring time,and i havent seen the build of their feud.And i'm not hating i'm simply stating my opinion and facts

Don't blame the divas for whatever the idiots are backstage are NOT doing. The Torrie/Sable T&A fueled feud was pushed better than Candice vs Beth for the Women's Title this year. Ridiculous. You have your good points you know, Melina vs Beth, Katie vs Mickie, Maryse vs Michelle, but they all go down too quick with no conclusion, which you can't exactly blame the divas for.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[psykohurricane]

You want to know what killed the WWE woman'S division. It simple it's not vince mcmahon, it's not playboy, it's not the fact that they use the term diva and it'S not the lack of talent. The answer to this question is simple, IT'S THE FANS. I

t'S everybody that did'nt react, when victoria wrestle Molly holly at wrestlemania XX. It's the peoples that everything that saw an actual wrestling match decide to chant ''We want Puppies'' instead of cheering for there favorite wrestler. That"S why you're getting what your getting right now, because of the fans, plain and simple. The WWE try at one time to bring the best women'S wrestlers in the world and the fans spit all over them.

So now instead of signing wrestler that actually got experience in the ring, they hire models that want to learn out to wrestle and trained them to be pro wrestles and for what am seeing, it's working because most of them, while not great in the ring are still pretty good and some of them like Maria and Kelly Kelly are as popular as ''Real'' wrestlers like Mickie James and Melina. Even Candice actually got a pretty decent pop last sunday at No Mercy, so at less, even if the fans never really cared about women's wrestling, thewwe is trying to make something out of it and this formula is the first one that actually looks to be working because for the first time in a long time, the fans actually look like they are interested by the divas, so if you want to blame somebody for the death of the women'S division, blame yourself but i for one am congratulating the WWE for finding a way to make the women'S division fun to watch, the wwe divas my not be the most talented wrestlers in the group but they still give you a pretty good match and that enough for me.

 

[Crush1]

I HATE it when people say stuff like this, HATE it. Now I know this is a forum and all, but I'm pretty much 100% sure that you're not any one of the divas so how dare you dole out how much care YOU think they have about wrestling.

I am basing that on their actual wrestling skill.So let me get this straight if a diva cant wrestle for sh*t for several months they are trying to get better?
I dont think so.

You don't know the amount of work these girls put in, it's the reason why the majority aren't given credit for it. Just because someone like Kelly didn't spend years in the indys doesn't mean she doesn't work hard

I dont deny the fact the some of them work hard, but if the most of them had no skill in the first place you should ask yourself this.Why did some divas who didnt had talent get hired in the first place? ,the answer is simple big boobs and the possibility of playboy.I dont get the wwe if they think they can train any good looking women out there they are sadly mistaken.

it doesn't mean she only cares about PB.

No it doesnt.But you cant deny the the fact that some of them are intrested in PB.And those are the one's who get more tv-time.

The last diva to be pushed because of Playboy was Maria, and before that more than a year ago was Ashley. Wow, all those other divas that were pushed between those two must've ceased to exist because you forgot to think of them when saying that.

True.But the main issue isnt only playboy its the fact that most of the divas whether they work hard or not cant wrestle.

Don't blame the divas for whatever the idiots are backstage are NOT doing. The Torrie/Sable T&A fueled feud was pushed better than Candice vs Beth for the Women's Title this year. Ridiculous.

True.

You have your good points you know, Melina vs Beth, Katie vs Mickie, Maryse vs Michelle, but they all go down too quick with no conclusion, which you can't exactly blame the divas for.

Yes and THAT is the problem.The creative team doesnt care too much about womens wrestling

 

[Milkyway!]

allright, one thing im gonna say, the divas division isnt completely dead...=\ maybe its my ****emoans raging (yes, thats misspelled purposely) but, i rather enjoy seeing beth pheniox/kellykelly/melina...they are pretty good, get 3 other girls, and the division could be rekindled, very easily (for those of you who are wonder why kelly kelly, her past matches have shown me great improovment, and i dont think shes done yet)

 

[Bernkastel]

I am basing that on their actual wrestling skill.

too bad that a wrestler's technique in the ring (especially in the WWE) is by no means an indicator of how good of a pro wrestler they are.

So let me get this straight if a diva cant wrestle for sh*t for several months they are trying to get better?

You must be talking about Candice, what makes you so sure she wasn't a good wrestler before? Because she couldn't do 50 variations of a suplex? she couldn't do a Shooting Star Press into a Corkscrew Hurricanerana DDT Powerbomb? She couldn't chain wrestle properly?

spare me...

I dont deny the fact the some of them work hard, but if the most of them had no skill in the first place you should ask yourself this.Why did some divas who didnt had talent get hired in the first place? ,the answer is simple big boobs and the possibility of playboy.I dont get the wwe if they think they can train any good looking women out there they are sadly mistaken.

And who in the Women's division doesn't have talent? The majority of the Women in the WWE are either already very talented (Mickie, Melina, Beth) or are learning the business very quickly (Maryse, Kelly, Candice). You've got a few bad eggs (Victoria, Michelle, Maria) but those select few don't take away from the rest of the bunch that actually know what their doing.

The Playboy excuse is a cop out. In my eyes, anyone that says that "some woman" used the publication to get their feet into the door has no clue what the business is all about. I'm assuming that you and ED were arguing about Candice. She did playboy and was seemingly catapulted to stardome. But as history has shown us (with Sable, Torrie, Chyna, etc) women in the WWE that choose to pose in Playboy are already established superstars within the company. WWE created the "playboy push" as a gimmick push. They have proven that the push did not mean more than the title, and the message sent was that the push was not a one way street to the title, but merely a way to give those girls who received the push some more exposure. Candice was given a title shot because she earned it, the same way everyone else in the WWE earns a title shot, she was entertaining and she was over and the fans wanted to see her with the title.

Yes and THAT is the problem.The creative team doesnt care too much about womens wrestling

Yet the WWE focuses more time on the women than they do the tag divisions, the WWE added a secondary title to the Women's Division, filling the spot of the now completely defunct Crusierweight Title.

Yeah, it really looks like the WWE just flat out doesn't care about their women's divsion

 

[Sticky]

This problem seemed to happen somewhere in 2006. When Trish and Lita retired from wrestling it was a real kick in the privates for WWE. They'd lost thier top two front women wrestlers for the last 4-odd years, so they need new ones. Just before Trish retired Mickie James came on the scene and was a perfect replacement for Stratus. She has the right wrestling ability. Then Melina was pushed from a valet to a full-time wrestler and she's done pretty decent enough, her title reign was well done. There's also Beth Pheonix billed as a "Chyna" like wrestler and was even given a storyline like Chyna. (Pheonix and Santino a la Chyna and Guerrero where the women where the tougher ones in the couple) Candice was first billed-ish in the WWE as a sort of Torrie Wilson like in some ways but then she improved her wrestling ability and was even pushed to beat then-Women's champion Melina several times and even winning the title. Which is a good thing to see Women improving on thier skills. (a la Stratus) (It's just a shame her recent push wasn't good)

Now looking at the other side of the topic. Examples: Kelly Kelly, the rest of Extreme Expose and Ashley to name a few in recent years. Where they're busty-ish and good-looking but can't wrestle good. It's really something i don't really care about and i think it's a stupid thing and most of them are featured in playboy near every WM since XIX, as part of promting Wrestlemania in some ways by WWE than anything to do with wrestling.

To conclud all of women's wrestling isn't all dead, there is still hope just as long as WWE don't give the push to the wrong wrestler (Kelly Kelly, Ashley, Maria etc.) and make the rest of them suffer where they deerve a push or a women's championship (Victora, Natalya, Katie Lea, Jillian etc.)

P.S. There's also no need for a Divas' Championship for SD!, if anything it should be scrapped and bring back the Hardcore championship or Criuserweight championship (the cruiserweights need it, especially Paul London)

 

[HBK-aholic]

Vince McMahon
He chooses which divas are hired, and which are fired. He, along with the creative team, decide how to book each diva and what we see of them. What we see of them, usually, is there DD breasts and Size 0 figures. I have no doubt there are talented female wrestlers out there. Some are probably already hired by the company. But until Vince books them differently, and they take a stance at being booked that way, we'll continue to be faced with a modelling competition rather than a wrestling one.

Playboy
A big part in the downfall of the WWE, because it's a big part of the WWE. Playboy should not have any place in the business. What the diva is doing outside of the ring should not affect what happens to her character in the ring. But it does, and we have unvelings of their covers on Raw and Smackdown. They automatically get pushed if they're posing nude. It doesn't take talent to do that.

The term Divas
It's an accurate name for what the womens division is. I don't think we can blame the term for what the division has become. We can blame what the division has come for the term.

Lack of Talent
Is a bullshit answer. There are plenty of talented female wrestlers out there. Hell even TNA have got this more right than the WWE.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Vince McMahon
He chooses which divas are hired, and which are fired. He, along with the creative team, decide how to book each diva and what we see of them. What we see of them, usually, is there DD breasts and Size 0 figures. I have no doubt there are talented female wrestlers out there. Some are probably already hired by the company. But until Vince books them differently, and they take a stance at being booked that way, we'll continue to be faced with a modelling competition rather than a wrestling one.

Technically if you're a diva it's impossible to be a size 0.

Anyways, if you look at the female developmental talent that are waiting to be called up or were just called up you'd see we have a diverse group of women. Few of them fit the "blonde, big boobs" stereotype people associate with models in the WWE. Angela Fong, Milena Roucka, Victoria Crawford (Alicia Fox), the Bella Twins, and Beverly Mullins. All of them work in FCW, and all of them were models, but if there's something that I've seen over the past two years is that these girls train and learn very fast. Maryse and Kelly both were trained in FCW, look at how far they've come in such a short time. Then you have someone like Natalya (who I do give props to for helping trains those girls), whose widely respected because she did work in the indys, but I don't think she did anywhere near as good in her feud with Michelle as Maryse did. If you look at the way Vince or whoever hires these girls without a previous bias it's easy to see that most of them do their job very well.

Playboy
A big part in the downfall of the WWE, because it's a big part of the WWE. Playboy should not have any place in the business. What the diva is doing outside of the ring should not affect what happens to her character in the ring. But it does, and we have unvelings of their covers on Raw and Smackdown. They automatically get pushed if they're posing nude. It doesn't take talent to do that.

Anytime a WWE star ventures into doing some outside stuff, they usually get promoted. When Mickie did Psych, she got promoted on Raw, when John Cena or Kane made a movie, that got promoted, when a wrestler is on a talk show or something, that gets promoted too. So it would make sense that any diva that poses in PB would also gets promoted. The reason many people don't like the promotion is because it often interrupts with any other diva storylines going on AND most people just don't like the idea of people posing nude.

Lack of Talent
Is a bullshit answer. There are plenty of talented female wrestlers out there. Hell even TNA have got this more right than the WWE.

TNA's Knockout division was good for about 10 minutes, but if you strip away all their bogus claims you'd see that their not much different from the WWE Women's Division. The one advantage they do have is they give their girls more time to put a match on, but that's about it.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[HBK-aholic]

Technically if you're a diva it's impossible to be a size 0.

Oh I apologise, Size 2 then.

Anyways, if you look at the female developmental talent that are waiting to be called up or were just called up you'd see we have a diverse group of women. Few of them fit the "blonde, big boobs" stereotype people associate with models in the WWE.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mention blonde. The maority will have big breasts and parade them around in little clothing though.

Angela Fong, Milena Roucka, Victoria Crawford (Alicia Fox), the Bella Twins, and Beverly Mullins. All of them work in FCW, and all of them were models, but if there's something that I've seen over the past two years is that these girls train and learn very fast. Maryse and Kelly both were trained in FCW, look at how far they've come in such a short time. Then you have someone like Natalya (who I do give props to for helping trains those girls), whose widely respected because she did work in the indys, but I don't think she did anywhere near as good in her feud with Michelle as Maryse did. If you look at the way Vince or whoever hires these girls without a previous bias it's easy to see that most of them do their job very well.

I don't think the WWE would suffer in the slightest without the addition of female wrestlers. If the divas left, ratings wouldn't go down. They're just there. Most people don't even pay attention to the matches. Even hardcore female wrestling fans hate WWE womens division.

Anytime a WWE star ventures into doing some outside stuff, they usually get promoted. When Mickie did Psych, she got promoted on Raw, when John Cena or Kane made a movie, that got promoted, when a wrestler is on a talk show or something, that gets promoted too. So it would make sense that any diva that poses in PB would also gets promoted. The reason many people don't like the promotion is because it often interrupts with any other diva storylines going on AND most people just don't like the idea of people posing nude.

I have no problem with them posing nude - it's their choice. I have a problem with them being pushed in a completely separate thing due to it. You shouldn't become champion for taking your clothes off.

Cena was pushed because everyone loves him. He'd be in the exact position without the movie. Can you say the same for divas who have posed in Playboy?

And I'd hardly call what Kane got a 'push'.

TNA's Knockout division was good for about 10 minutes, but if you strip away all their bogus claims you'd see that their not much different from the WWE Women's Division. The one advantage they do have is they give their girls more time to put a match on, but that's about it.

Flames Out
Dragon

TNA's division isn't the greatest, but it's 20 times better than what the WWE have to offer.

 

[Mexican Geek]

TNA's division isn't the greatest, but it's 20 times better than what the WWE have to offer.

I disagree.

if TNA's division would be 20 times better than the Divas, TNA would have better ratings. Last time i checked, the show still sucks and the "Knockouts" havent helped a bit. Sure, there was a moderate spike of popularity last year with the Gail Kim vs Kong feud, but that was it. You can't compare for example roxxi with Beth Phoenix, ODB with Natalya or how about Angelina Love with Kelly x2 (Kelly is WAY hotter! j/k, though she's hotter). Other than that, there's nothing in the division outside Taylor Wilde and Awesome Kong. (though I dont think Taylor wilde is awesome nor the next Gail Kim; actually, she was lucky because this was the only way TNA could keep some of the hype after Gail Kim's departure drama.)

Speaking of which, what would happened if Kong leaves TNA?? My opinion: TNA knockout division would sink faster than a slap in the face.

 

[Milkyway!]

To conclud all of women's wrestling isn't all dead, there is still hope just as long as WWE don't give the push to the wrong wrestler (Kelly Kelly, Ashley, Maria etc.) and make the rest of them suffer where they deerve a push or a women's championship (Victora, Natalya, Katie Lea, Jillian etc.)

have you seen kellykelly wrestle as of late? shes shown really good atheticism, and is quickly picking up the business...next time you talk about wrestling, watch a few episodes first....

maria, im still not sure what to think about her, sometimes she gives it her all other times, i see nothing in her..=\ so i guess ill give you a cookie for talking about her...
extream expsose = out entirely for about 6 months...why are you talking about them????

ashley did she ever do anything? i saw her like onve every 6 months...haha why are you talking about her?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I disagree.

if TNA's division would be 20 times better than the Divas, TNA would have better ratings. Last time i checked, the show still sucks and the "Knockouts" havent helped a bit. Sure, there was a moderate spike of popularity last year with the Gail Kim vs Kong feud, but that was it. You can't compare for example roxxi with Beth Phoenix, ODB with Natalya or how about Angelina Love with Kelly x2 (Kelly is WAY hotter! j/k, though she's hotter). Other than that, there's nothing in the division outside Taylor Wilde and Awesome Kong. (though I dont think Taylor wilde is awesome nor the next Gail Kim; actually, she was lucky because this was the only way TNA could keep some of the hype after Gail Kim's departure drama.)

Speaking of which, what would happened if Kong leaves TNA?? My opinion: TNA knockout division would sink faster than a slap in the face.

I highly doubt womens divisions have much if anything to do with the ratings of either show. Without the divisions the ratings would still be exactly the same. But as a fan to watch, I prefer TNAs Knockout division compared to the WWE divas. Who honestly put on some awful matches. And I mean, they're atrocious.

As for Kong, she is a big part of TNAs division, but I don't think it'd collapse without her.

 

[Bernkastel]

I highly doubt womens divisions have much if anything to do with the ratings of either show. Without the divisions the ratings would still be exactly the same. But as a fan to watch, I prefer TNAs Knockout division compared to the WWE divas. Who honestly put on some awful matches. And I mean, they're atrocious.

While the WWE Womens division does have its fair share of bad matches, they also have their fair share of good matches. Women like Mickie, Beth, Kelly (although her theme music sucks balls) and Maryse are all consistent in the ring.

As for Kong, she is a big part of TNAs division, but I don't think it'd collapse without her.

Kong is the backbone of the heel force of the TNA women's division. And while The Beautiful People play their roles well, they don't have the same drawing capacity that Kong possess, and its been proven in the ratings. The ratings tended to have been better for the knockouts whenever Kong was being pushed heavily than compared to when the Beautiful People were the main focus. If TNA were to lose Kong sometime soon, then they be losing their biggest female heel. TBP are a unit, not one single person working as a heel. So with no one over and established enough to fill the immediate gap that Kong would leave upon her departure, I would say that the Knockout division, and any ratings that they might draw, would suffer as a result