Is Playboy Overshadowing the Womens title?

[klunderbunker]

I have to agree with Dragon here. The divas are just being pushed horribly. The biggest thing they've had in months is this feud with Santino which won't go much longer I don't think. Beth is getting nothing as Women's Champion because she's out of people to feud with. With WWE, you have one face diva active right now: Mickie. Mickie vs. Beth has been done, over and over again. There is nothing right now for the raw divas to do. Melina is stuck on Heat with Mickie, leaving Beth vs. Ashley and Maria, until Candice gets back. Without Trish or Lita, the divas are still trying to find themselves, and it's starting to take too long.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The Thing is with TNA, it's always the same fans showing up for the TV Tapings and some of the PPV when they do them from Orlando. These fans would react to pretty much anything. You could put a wrestler watching paint dry and it will get a crowd reaction. So it's very easy to get a crowd reaction when you're always in the same place. Look when TNA goes outside orlando and Awesome Kong doesn'T get the same crowd reaction.

Has for playboy overshadowing the WWE woman's title, i don't think it's overshadowing it at all. Let's face Playboy and the WWE does have some sort of understanding that before wrestlemania, one of the WWE divas will pose for playboy. That'S not news, it'S been that way since 2004 and before that you Sable and Chyna posing for playboy and both of them became were WWE woman'S champion and help their popularity in the process. Also if it wasn't for the WWE hiring models instead of actual wrestler, Trish Stratus and Victoria wouldn't have had the chance to become to great wrestlers that they are today. Both of them were hired because of the looks and we alot of training and just by having matches with some of the more experience wrestler they became greater and the fans accepted them has wrestlers. Now the new generation of models have arrive and for most of them, they have the same passion for the business that Trish and Victoria had when they first started. Maria was popular before posing for playboy, all playboy did is help her be more popular with the fans and the way i see it, by continuing wrestling the more experience divas like Beth Phoenix and Jillian, she will get even better and the same goes for Candice and all the other girls. If they have the passion for the buisiness, they will succeed with or without Playboy.

But thats the problem, the women that are coming in want to be in the womens division for modelling jobs and playboy gigs and made careers, they dont want to wrestle, they virtually have no ability hell trish nearly killed herself to get as good as she did and basically was the best thing to ever happen to the womens division that passion is not instilled in other so called wannabe models who come in and have a crappy match or two and consider themselves divas

 

[psykohurricane]

But thats the problem, the women that are coming in want to be in the womens division for modelling jobs and playboy gigs and made careers, they dont want to wrestle, they virtually have no ability hell trish nearly killed herself to get as good as she did and basically was the best thing to ever happen to the womens division that passion is not instilled in other so called wannabe models who come in and have a crappy match or two and consider themselves divas

I'm not gonna agree with you because not everything your saying is true. For every Ashley or Kelly Kelly that comes in not having the passion for the buisiness, there is somebody like Maria or Candice that do want to wrestle and do have the passion for the buisiness. Sure they got hired for there looks but that doesn't mean that they didn't have the passion. Let just look at the latest playboy cover girl Maria, sure, she was in the first ever diva search competition, but she wasn't offer a contract right away after losing that contest, she had to call the wwe office 5 to 10 times before she actually got to sign a contract. Also, anybody that got the seal of approval from Paul Heyman most be something and most have some sort of passion for the wrestling business. So basicly what i'm saying is this, sure there are some models that sign with the WWE simply for the playboy gig but that's a minority and to say that all of them are there for that reason is wrong. Sure for now, most of the diva matches are crappy but the thing you got to remember is that they are trying to built the next generation of Trish Stratus and Victoria and that doesn't come overnight. It takes time before girl become great wrestlers, so if you think that all models that the wwe hires are there simply for the playboy gig and have no passion, that's your opinion and you got a right to it, but before judging them, maybe do a little bit more research and you will discover that not everybody is there for that reason only.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

What does Playboy have anything to do with what I said? Posing in Playboy doesn't mean that Torrie doesn't want to wrestle. Didn't Candice pose in Playboy? Is she wrestling? Yes.

You said Torrie would rather be wrestling then doing bikini contests. Of course that'd be the case, because shes already shown her "goods" to the world and there shouldn't be anymore reason for her to show the same things over and over again.

So naturally, she wants to progress and wrestle. The fact is though, she can't.

And, yes Torrie has picked up talent. She's no Victoria, but she's just as good, if not better than Michelle McCool, Candice Michelle, etc. I know many of fans want to see her leave the WWE with at least one title reign. A lot of Torrie's best matches have never been shown on TV which is why a lot of people think she still can't wrestle.

Thats probably because all the ones that have been, each time shes ever gotten a chance to wrestle on television in a storyline.. her matches have been horrible. I won't blame it completely on Torrie Wilson, I mean one of her biggest feuds was against Dawn Marie, who wasn't exactly a technical diva wrestler either.

Although, while I'm not a fan of Michelle McStool the fact is I think Michelle has picked up her knowledge of wrestling a lot quicker than Torrie, thus, shes getting more air time. Same with Candice. Regardless of what most wanna think, Candice picked up a superior knowledge of being a good wrestling diva in matches against Melina last year for the Women's Championship. Same with some of her matches against Beth.

Eh, the Armageddon match between Beth and Mickie was okay, but the whole feud was just lacking in quality and depth. That really ruined the match for me. Most people perfer the Backlash match just because Mickie and Melina seemed to have a better feud and better chemistry in the ring.

Mickie James & Melina did have better chemistry, because Beth hasn't seemed to find her nitch, so to speak. Although the last great build to any feud I've seen was probably Victoria v. Mickie James for the Women's Championship at Armageddon (or New Year's Revolution?) a year ago, I think.

The crowd doesn't care because the divas are not pushed right. Every, single feud since mid-2007 has been boring and repetitive.

Thats not the fan's fault. W.W.E. only decides to push 3 divas. Maria, Candice & McCool. You can't very well say they pushed Melina or Beth, as neither are doing anything. Even though Beth is the current female Champion, it doesn't mean shes done anything AS such. McCool is accomplishing more on Smackdown than Beth is. Maria is doing the same.

Its disgusting to see talentless hacks get over, when the talented divas rot.

 

[Mr. Showtime]

The actual female ''wrestlers'' are being heavily overshadowed by those ****s the wwe like to call ''divas''. If I want an edition of playboy magazine I'll go buy one. I don't want to see WWE take up 5-10 mins of the show with these yearly playboy angles, where as that time should rather be for an actual wrestling match. If WWE want to promote one of their divas in playboy . . fine. Just dont remind me every week from january up to WrestleMania. I mean for gods sake, the Womens title wasn't even on the line at WM XXIV. A real spit in the face to the women who work thier but off to win/defend the title imo.

Hey, at least Maria and Ashley never won. Maria's a decent female wrestler for today's standards, but there is so much better talent out there who have only got a devlopmental contract. Move the models to ECW & SD! where WWE can have all the silly little contests they want and leave the real womens wrestling to RAW.

On the other hand I don't mind the diva's being in playboy, I'd just rather it was at another time of the year, cut a couple of promo's etc. just don't make an angle out of it.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

I agree with most statements but do feel that the models would be able to wrestle if given half the chance,i remember trish saying that with finlay and lance storms help the division became something more then glamore and showed more wrestling why can they bring finlay or melinko in to train these new divas then maybe they will start to learn more about the industry

 

[Sicko]

this is why TNA womens division>WWE Divas

TNA focus on in ring performance, WWE is all about the "pretty blonde" that can't do much other then look pretty, Trish got her respect I think because yeah she was hot but she took her bumps and actually improved in the ring even though she had a few bad matches

right now I honestly think Victoria as for as in ring performance goes and she is not bad on the mic either, is probably the best Diva along with Beth, Victoria should be like a top female in a heel stable or something, I like Mikkie James a lot as well, she seems to always get the biggest pop out of all the Divas

Candice is very overrated, popularity and push is because of the GoDaddy fame, I like Maria but she is not that good in the ring, Kelly Kelly is not all that great in the ring either but looks great, Torrie seems to work hard and try but they don't use her as a wrestler enough as mention above they just use her maybe once every 2-3 months to win a Bikini Contest

Melina is actually good and not bad on the mic either when she is allowed to speak

anyway those Playboy magz don't even sell all that great anymore because the photos always leak on the internet before the Mag even release, I don't even see the point of WWE Divas doing it anymore, it clearly did nothing for Christy Hemme career she did not even last that long after she posed and honestly I don't even see why Ashley is still in the WWE because she really have not done much but pose for Playboy

 

[lapel8533]

While I don’t think that ALL women come to the WWE just to do Playboy, I think that WWE has made Playboy the focus of the women’s division in the last few years

Ya think? It's not just playboy it's the whole exploitation of women in general. They could have made feuds and getting people into the story lines there main focus point but once again they failed to actually listen to the fans when It came to the women’s division. And then when Kandas Michelle shouts to the crowd to "come on" and practically begs the fans to get into the match and they still don't respond, she wonders why? What did I do wrong? why do people have no respect for the women’s division and it's wrestling? Well, they have no respect for the women’s wrestling because of stuff like playboy and coming out all the time in bra and panties, having mud wrestling matches, pillow fights while in undies and various other garbage.

She said one day she hopes to have the opportunity to pose for Playboy and questions whether she has what it takes.

Playboy is trashy and sleazy. If that's what she hopes to aspire to then that is quite sad.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The reason so many people just don't care about Beth has nothing to do with Playboy, it's because she's been booked horrible. I mean come on, she was valeting Melina on Heat for weeks just before WM. The Women's Champion should not be standing at ringside.

She should though. Because she'd make a better enforcer for the more charismatic Melina. Beth is a good wrestler, but she has the charisma of a watermelon. That's why people don't care about her, and that's why she isn't the focus of the division.

The only reason there wasn't a Women's title match at Mania is because they needed to promote the more important Playbody. They also didn't want Maria vs. Phoenix because while it's supposed to be a heat killer, it's not supposed to be a crowd killer. That is why Candice & Melina were added, because fans care about them. And their big tits.

Are you kidding? Did you miss Mickie's fall in the Mickie vs Melina Falls Count Anywhere match? Does that fall make her a bad wrestler? No. The logic that Candice fell because she isn't a good enough wrestler yet falls flat.

I missed that. But I'm on about Candice's fall, any wrestler would have rolled out or put their hands up.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

She should though. Because she'd make a better enforcer for the more charismatic Melina. Beth is a good wrestler, but she has the charisma of a watermelon. That's why people don't care about her, and that's why she isn't the focus of the division.

The only reason there wasn't a Women's title match at Mania is because they needed to promote the more important Playbody. They also didn't want Maria vs. Phoenix because while it's supposed to be a heat killer, it's not supposed to be a crowd killer. That is why Candice & Melina were added, because fans care about them. And their big tits.




I missed that. But I'm on about Candice's fall, any wrestler would have rolled out or put their hands up.

WWE need to take a page out of TNA's book for this one. Just look at what they have done with Awsome Kong. Sure she's bigger and better, but at least it would make Beth look more credible. WWE stopped pushing her as soon as they gave her the belt. The only Diva who gets anything like a decent reaction is Mickie, she's also probably their best womens wrestler. If they were going to be serious about the Womens division they need to go for that feud but do it properly i.e. a good storyline, Beth being made to be unstopable, and Mickie to be touted as the underdog. It's really not hard a 8 year old could probably book it.

 

[psykohurricane]

I missed that. But I'm on about Candice's fall, any wrestler would have rolled out or put their hands up.

Are you Kidding Me? That shows exactly how much you know about wrestling. The way Candice fell last October, their wasn't anyway to proctected yourself and having a wrestler wouldn't have had the time to protect herself. Just look a how many bad fall Mickie James took during the fall counted anywhere match with Melina or any other match she had with Melina before last year's wrestlemania and you would see that having wrestlers can always protect themselves.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Are you Kidding Me? That shows exactly how much you know about wrestling. The way Candice fell last October, their wasn't anyway to proctected yourself and having a wrestler wouldn't have had the time to protect herself. Just look a how many bad fall Mickie James took during the fall counted anywhere match with Melina or any other match she had with Melina before last year's wrestlemania and you would see that having wrestlers can always protect themselves.

Please. Any properly trained wrestler would have stopped themselves from landing like that. You only need to look at the ammount of injurys Ashley has had to see that the majority of WWE's femal wrestlers haven't had adequate training.

Candice is a model not a wrestler, as are most of the other women in that division. Do you really think somebody like Melina would be on the roster if she wasn't moderately attractive?

 

[psykohurricane]

Ask any properly trained wrestler and am sure that 95% of them will tell you that they could have stoppe themselves from landing the way candice landed.

I agree with you on the Ashley thing because it shows but maybe that's because she doesn't want to be a wrestler so she just take what the basic training they gave her and the was enough for here. And yes Candice was a model and got hired simply for that reason but she trying to be more then that and it shows in the ring because she's was improving every single week and here injury was just a bad roadblock for here so to say that see not a wrestler, that's your opinion and a respect that because for me your half right, she not a wrestler quite yet, right she in the middle between a model and a wrestler, but am sure that in a couple of years, she will be a great wrestler and that's not because she did playboy or because of here look, it's because she found a way to get the proper training that the WWE doesn'T want to give her and all the other divas.

And just for the record, i agree that Melina was hire because of her look. But so is every other divas on the roster, wrestler or model, they all got hired because of there look. If Beth Phoenix or Mickie James weren'T mildly Attractive, they would be on the roster. And the purpose of hiring divas that are attractive is that when they need one of them to pose for playboy, they can have any choose any one of them and it won't matter.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Y'know what. If Candice continues to improve the way she has been then I don't see why she can't be great. It took Trish Stratus years to be compitent in the ring. Yet Candice appears to have taken to it very quickly. Candice also doesn't have the benefit of working with Jazz, Molly Holly and to a lesser extent Victoria like Trish did.

She's has improven a great deal, but she's still currently shite.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I think since trish and lita left there arent really many good wemon wrestlers left or willing to enter the wwe. The fact is most wemon going into wrestiling want to ... Wrestle, Not pose for plaboy or show up in skimpy skirts to be vallette for some dude. Alot of female wrestlers have tallent. But there sure as hell not in the wwe. I can name off 2 and one who is getting there , Mickey and beth being the 2 who are there and melina is getting there. Hell the rest might as well go live at the playboy mansion thats all they seem to care or think about anymore.

 

[jblaze1]

wwe womens division is a joke. the only legitamate females in there are beth phoenix, melina, and victoria. the rest are just eye candy. If I want to see 2 females "wrestle" for a womens title, I watch tna for that.

 

[a7xoff]

Can't believe I didn't see this yet... Yah playboy is overshadowing the Womens Champ... For crying out loud all we get week in and week out latley is something about playboy, and Beth squashing one of the "bunnies". By her doing that you think that more recognition would be going her way... Really doesn't seem to be the case. Fact is... If WWE is trying to reach out to a male audience... All they seemingly need to do for over 50% of them is find women with big boobs that will pose for playboy. Bam... Advertising on playboy. The whole womens division as Will pointed out, is focused on tits and ass... Which in my opinion is just plain old wrong... I miss the days where ya playboy had Torrie on the cover, but you still had actual wrestling going on as well... Seems WWE just doesn't give two craps about the ability of these women, but if they have a nice rear end and rack they're just fine reguardless of their total lack of talent *cough* Maria... Honestly I feel bad for the Women's Champ if they are not in playboy cause they get next to no credit...

 

[psykohurricane]

I actually wanted to start another thread on this subject but since there already one similar to the one i wanted to start, i'm just gonna write it here.

I'm going to start this post by asking one single question to all of you, why do you pick on the WWE divas? i know that the product isn't what it used to be when the WWE divas roster was consisted of wrestlers like Gail Kim and Molly Holly but even without any storylines, it's still a pretty good product.

Some of are saying that all theses models are not interested in learning how to wrestle and are only in the WWE so that they can pose for playboy. That a load of crap and you know it. If these girl weren't interested in learning how to wrestle, they would be in the ring every week, they would be either place in another role like a valet or they wouldn't even be in the company because the would fired her and found somebody else to replace her.

Also, this is something that's getting on my nerve, but a lot of you have said that most of the wwe divas are not talented and should be wrestling. While there is one or two exception to the rule and i would agree with you in some degree, i'm still think that writing that they don't have talent is unrespectful and completely stupid. The fact is that each and every one of those divas have more wrestling talent that any of you writing on this board and could probably beat any one of us in a match.

Last but not less, Stop using Trish Stratus as a example when talking about how bad the current product is compare to when she was wrestling. You're just contradicting yourself. On the one hand your saying that you don't like seeing models in the ring trying to be a wrestling but on the other, you said that best era of woman's wrestling in the wwe was during the Trish and Lita era. This doesn't make any sense simply because you don't mind seeing a former model like Trish Stratus wrestle but you mind seeing a for model like Candice or Maria wrestle.

The fact of the matter is that the wrestling business is a very hard business to get into. Especially for a women these days because the fans are very judgemental and think they know everything. If you don't have the look or the year of experience in the business they will automatically go out of there way to say that they don't have any talent and they are only in wrestling because the want to pause for playboy. But the fact of the matter is that even if most of the WWE divas are new to wrestling, they still got talent and passion for this buisiness and they most of them grew up like us wanting to be a WWE superstar, but unlike us, they actually did realise there dream and before judging anybody, try talking or wrestling to any of those divas about wrestling and you would be surprised on how much they know about wrestling.

 

[scsu01]

the problem with the wwe is booking....theyre trying to put certain people over so bad so they can try to start new feuds since mickie was on heat and candice got hurt again...but the fact of the matter is fans can recognize when someone is in there who really cares about what theyre doing and who doesnt. its sad when no one can remember the last time the womens belt was defended at a ppv....lets look at the divas roster on each show:

RAW
beth-exactly who should be the champ, has no one to feud with
maria-heavily pushed,slightly improving skills, posed for pb
ashley-posed for pb, diva search winner, bad wrestling skills, gets booed in the ring
candice-injured, posed for pb, gets some pops when she takes her clothes off, improved in ring
melina-awesome heel, really good wrestler, good mic skills
mickie-biggest face diva, great wrestler, been in the doghouse on heat, kinda gettin lost in the crowd and losin her spark
jillian-good wrestler who rarely ever wrestles...poorly misused
katie-hasnt wrestled yet

SD
torrie-injured, biggest face, over with crowds, improved skills, biggest underdog
michelle mccool-boring as hell, good wrestler, supposed to be the big face diva(only when torries out) but gets no fan reaction...got no sizzle
victoria-biggest heel, best wrestler, poorly misused in constant jobbing to put michelle over
cherry, eve, maryse-dont wrestle yet, eve and maryse are major eye candy, but cherry is starting to get surprising pops from crowd
nattie-hasnt wrestled yet but has made a strong intro

ECW
kelly kelly-slightly improved face diva thats kinda over with the crowd
layla-good heel, really improving
lena-hasnt wrestled

the best thing the wwe can do is heel v. heel, theyve made all their best wrestlers heels...so be it...eventually one can turn face, maybe like melina if she wrestled beth. they need to move victoria to raw, maybe even torrie. i know theyres alot of talk of mccool going since mickie is the only real face...mccool just isnt over with the crowds

in the end the real problem is mcmahon just doesnt care about the divas

 

[psykohurricane]

the problem with the wwe is booking....theyre trying to put certain people over so bad so they can try to start new feuds since mickie was on heat and candice got hurt again...but the fact of the matter is fans can recognize when someone is in there who really cares about what theyre doing and who doesnt. its sad when no one can remember the last time the womens belt was defended at a ppv....lets look at the divas roster on each show:

RAW
beth-exactly who should be the champ, has no one to feud with
maria-heavily pushed,slightly improving skills, posed for pb
ashley-posed for pb, diva search winner, bad wrestling skills, gets booed in the ring
candice-injured, posed for pb, gets some pops when she takes her clothes off, improved in ring
melina-awesome heel, really good wrestler, good mic skills
mickie-biggest face diva, great wrestler, been in the doghouse on heat, kinda gettin lost in the crowd and losin her spark
jillian-good wrestler who rarely ever wrestles...poorly misused
katie-hasnt wrestled yet

SD
torrie-injured, biggest face, over with crowds, improved skills, biggest underdog
michelle mccool-boring as hell, good wrestler, supposed to be the big face diva(only when torries out) but gets no fan reaction...got no sizzle
victoria-biggest heel, best wrestler, poorly misused in constant jobbing to put michelle over
cherry, eve, maryse-dont wrestle yet, eve and maryse are major eye candy, but cherry is starting to get surprising pops from crowd
nattie-hasnt wrestled yet but has made a strong intro

ECW
kelly kelly-slightly improved face diva thats kinda over with the crowd
layla-good heel, really improving
lena-hasnt wrestled

the best thing the wwe can do is heel v. heel, theyve made all their best wrestlers heels...so be it...eventually one can turn face, maybe like melina if she wrestled beth. they need to move victoria to raw, maybe even torrie. i know theyres alot of talk of mccool going since mickie is the only real face...mccool just isnt over with the crowds

in the end the real problem is mcmahon just doesnt care about the divas

I completly agree with you, Mcmahon just don't care about the divas and it's been like this for has long as a can remember. Even during the Trish/Lita era, the only diva that was getting any attention was Trish since she was getting all the storylines anyway.

I also want to say that your depiction of the wwe divas on each roster is dead on and it's refreshing to see somebody that isn't going that analyse the roster instead of just jumping to conclusion.

 

[scsu01]

^thanks ...i love the divas and i really wish they could get back to what they were...its ok to have those bra and panties matches or swimsuit things...but theyve gotta have the legitimate stuff too

 

[skater4u4eva]

omg its like absolutely ridiculous what the women's division has come to since women like trish and lita have left...its like a barbie playhouse full of all these women that are supposed to have been signed to WWE for not only their beauty but mainly their pro wrestling skills....u look at kelly kelly nd think YTF is she here shes had maybe 7 matches since shes been in WWE and is still in developmental practicing...ITS PATHETIC....

WWE needs to hire women that are like trish stratus and lita because they were actually entertaining in the ring and not just eye candy
divas need to be involved in more storylines with men...like in a managerial role or sumtin like WWE champ randy orton and a heel diva having a feud with john cena and maria.

playboy is a joke...and sure go ahead pose for it w/e...but don't make the only womens match at 'mania a freakin playboy bunny match, its so derogatory!!

 

[G-Cartel]

i think that the title is on the wrong brand. All the tough competitive divas are on SD! Raw has all the "beauties" while SD! has the ring tacticians. Even more now with the addition of Neidhart. I say that Mickie James and Beth Pheonix should go to SD! with the title. There are pelnty more beleivable divas there.

 

[turbomonkey484]

I think that one brand should be devoted to women actually wrestling and this should be the one with the title, i dont care if it smackdown or raw but they should have Victoria, Beth Phoenix, Melina, Michelle Mcool, Mickie James and Natalya Neidhart on one show to actually wrestle, then have all the rest on the other brand and just constantly put them in bra and panties matches.

 

[psykohurricane]

WWE needs to hire women that are like trish stratus and lita because they were actually entertaining in the ring and not just eye candy
divas need to be involved in more storylines with men...like in a managerial role or sumtin like WWE champ randy orton and a heel diva having a feud with john cena and maria.

That's pretty much what they did actually if you look at it. When the WWE Hired Trish, they actually hired her to be a sex symbol and she was like every other models that the WWE has hired over the past couple of years, she couldn'T wrestle at all. Even when they started to push her to be the main diva the WWE, she still was green and in training but the thing was that she had a good group of wrestlers like JAzz and Molly Holly to help her out and she was push will Fit Finlay was the main agent for the woman's division. Has for Lita, yes she could wrestle and she was my favorite out of all the divas at the time but let's face it she wasn'T the be all and end all of the woman'S division and if you want my opinion, Melina is doing a great job in replacing her right now.

So the point of this is that your not making any sense with this comment since the WWE is already hiring divas like Trish and Lita, it'S just that you don't see it.