JoeMallard
Championship Contender
Indy guys have to make a name for themselves instead of just being handed it.
The Randy Orton (...dive) Controversy
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Indy guys have to make a name for themselves instead of just being handed it.
Papa Pillman
I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan
This. A guy who was handed his entire career and all of his success on a silver platter simply because of how he looks and who his daddy is, and never had to work hard one day in his whole life to get into his position or obtain anything he has achieved, should have zero opinion about how guys on the indies work matches. Randy doesn't know anymore about wrestling anywhere outside of WWE than any of us do, therefore his opinion doesn't mean any more than any of ours. In this conversation, he's just another dude with an opinion like you, me, or anyone else on the internet; his assessment holds zero more weight than ours.
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
There's one angle to this no one is really looking at...
Randy Orton is NOT a professional wrestler in the same sense as the guys he is mocking, or as Rip Rogers for that matter. Randy Orton stars in a TV Soap Opera SET in a wrestling company! Matches are just part of the action rather than the whole show. He got that role because his dad WAS a pro-wrestler who turned into one of the earliest soap superstars the WWE had. He didn't learn the trade the way his dad and grandad and Rip Rogers did... he didn't even learn the Marines training the right way.
He is knocking guys who want to be wrestlers... and maybe one day be a soap star like him... but they are out there actually having to bust their ass to do what sells. They do a lot of dives? Sure, because that's what most Indy fans want to see... it's why they're at that show, not at a WWE show or in front of the Network. They might like the Soap too... but when they go to that show they don't want 5 moves of doom and an RKO out of nowhere... they want to see the flips, flops, dives...and they appreciate the effort put in far more than the phoned in performances Orton often puts in.
Remember the man who is mocking them is a man who found shitting in a woman who was trying to get somewhere in the business's bag to be great entertainment... so I'd find it hard to trust his views on what should or shouldn't happen in an Indy match - especially as he's never wrestled outside the soap opera.
Randy is one of those people that JUUUUST when you think he's matured and finally become someone to respect, he pulls another stunt... this is no different and he's only one cock up away from being out of WWE. He has a title right now but that is purely transitional, it's either going to Jinder or someone else before the Summer comes...
Relatively soon, Orton is going to find himself out on the Indy circuit, either he will screw up wellness and get released or he will finally piss someone off enough to say - "you need to go away for a while and come back...let them miss you" He's not gonna want to go to TNA and Japan will be limited for him as his rep won't help him once some of those guys start strong styling him...he's gonna need all those Indy guys he's just disparaged... promoters and all... and they'll have a lot of fun at his expense...
but anyway...
Randy Orton is NOT a professional wrestler in the same sense as the guys he is mocking, or as Rip Rogers for that matter. Randy Orton stars in a TV Soap Opera SET in a wrestling company! Matches are just part of the action rather than the whole show. He got that role because his dad WAS a pro-wrestler who turned into one of the earliest soap superstars the WWE had. He didn't learn the trade the way his dad and grandad and Rip Rogers did... he didn't even learn the Marines training the right way.
He is knocking guys who want to be wrestlers... and maybe one day be a soap star like him... but they are out there actually having to bust their ass to do what sells. They do a lot of dives? Sure, because that's what most Indy fans want to see... it's why they're at that show, not at a WWE show or in front of the Network. They might like the Soap too... but when they go to that show they don't want 5 moves of doom and an RKO out of nowhere... they want to see the flips, flops, dives...and they appreciate the effort put in far more than the phoned in performances Orton often puts in.
Remember the man who is mocking them is a man who found shitting in a woman who was trying to get somewhere in the business's bag to be great entertainment... so I'd find it hard to trust his views on what should or shouldn't happen in an Indy match - especially as he's never wrestled outside the soap opera.
Randy is one of those people that JUUUUST when you think he's matured and finally become someone to respect, he pulls another stunt... this is no different and he's only one cock up away from being out of WWE. He has a title right now but that is purely transitional, it's either going to Jinder or someone else before the Summer comes...
Relatively soon, Orton is going to find himself out on the Indy circuit, either he will screw up wellness and get released or he will finally piss someone off enough to say - "you need to go away for a while and come back...let them miss you" He's not gonna want to go to TNA and Japan will be limited for him as his rep won't help him once some of those guys start strong styling him...he's gonna need all those Indy guys he's just disparaged... promoters and all... and they'll have a lot of fun at his expense...
but anyway...
George Steele's Barber
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I thought the point of Rogers comment and Orton's support is that Indy wrestling sucks the life out of in ring kayfabe and therefore endangers the industry as a whole. That there has to be some level of realism in the violence or the impact of the violence or you're just reminding people how fake it is and that is unsustainable.
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
Like having a Fridge pushed on you and making it back to the arena at the same time as your opponent via teleportation is something that must be protected right?
George Steele's Barber
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Sort of, but more the idea of having different guys drop fridges on their opponents six times a night, every night they wrestle to the point that the fridge routine is no longer special.
The weird thing in this controversy is that in the end it's all about what the fans wants. Indy show are mostly comprise of smart fans that goes to those show because they are trying to recreate the atmosphere that ECW had and are super critical of the WWE style of wrestling, yet when you look at the WWE roster right now, those that are on top of the card are the one that have a safer style of wrestling and know how to make everything mean something.
Indy wrestlers are so preoccupied by putting all their move in their matches that they forget about the psychology of the match and how to tell a good story. All The great ones from Ric Flair and Steamboat to aj styles and Cena knew how to tell a story. Heck even Randy Orton is able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit as proven with the house of horror match which could have been ten times worst that it ended up being.
The fact is that indy wrestling fans really don't care about the wrestlers well being and just want to see flip and dive and super exciting move. The dirst sheets will rated those matches based on how many moves the wrestlers made instead of how well the story was told. So those indy wrestlers pretty much continue with that mentality because that's all they really know.
Also i always found it funny to read when somebody write how wrestler A did earn anything because of how he look or who he knows like if they we're backstage and know everything that happens. That just funny to me because yes some wrestlers got a easier time getting to WWe, but they had to work as hard as anybody else to get we're they are.
Indy wrestlers are so preoccupied by putting all their move in their matches that they forget about the psychology of the match and how to tell a good story. All The great ones from Ric Flair and Steamboat to aj styles and Cena knew how to tell a story. Heck even Randy Orton is able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit as proven with the house of horror match which could have been ten times worst that it ended up being.
The fact is that indy wrestling fans really don't care about the wrestlers well being and just want to see flip and dive and super exciting move. The dirst sheets will rated those matches based on how many moves the wrestlers made instead of how well the story was told. So those indy wrestlers pretty much continue with that mentality because that's all they really know.
Also i always found it funny to read when somebody write how wrestler A did earn anything because of how he look or who he knows like if they we're backstage and know everything that happens. That just funny to me because yes some wrestlers got a easier time getting to WWe, but they had to work as hard as anybody else to get we're they are.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Well, to be fair, there are wrestlers out there on the indy scene who do try to tell a story and use psychology during matches. The problem is that in America, most of those guys don't get any real buzz on the indy scene as a lot of the indy fans just want to see flips and high spots. As a whole, the indy scene has devolved into a three ring circus over the last decade or so as it's become more about cramming as high spots, high impact moves and heavily choreographed & cooperative spots as possible into things. Guys who came up on the indy scene 15+ years ago like Styles, Punk & Bryan didn't do 20 super kicks, 20 suicide dives and a dozen flips during their matches. I'm sure that there are some wrestlers on the indy scene that hate that sort of formula but do it because it's really the only way to get noticed.
I think it's too broad of a generalization to imply that all indy fans don't care about the well being of the wrestlers, but I get where you're coming from. It's true that there are a lot of fans, both indy and non-indy, who really don't step back and try to appreciate how much wrestlers put themselves through to entertain them. That's when I look at so many modern indy wrestlers and just sort of cringe at what they put themselves through physically, I appreciate the risks they take and the physical toll it takes on their bodies as a lot of them are doing what they have to do in order to succeed on a much smaller stage in the hopes of being noticed by much bigger stages.
I read an article earlier today in which a writer sort of critiqued Orton's perspective and some I did agree with. For instance, the indy scene has obviously had an impact on WWE; I mean, how could it not when you look at some of the various indy guys who've signed with the company over the last 7 or 8 years. Adding some more impactful stuff and some more flash has also taken place, but nothing to the extreme that we see with the top indy stars like Ospreay, the Young Bucks or Ricochet. The article stated that, in the writer's opinion, that WWE no longer really "developed" talent as they were poached from the indy scene and I disagree with that as there's various stages of developing someone. For instance, Sami Zayn used to do all the crazy spots and all that, but he doesn't any longer. Why? Well, for one thing, he was coached in how to slow himself down, to tell a story and to use psychology inside the ring while cutting back on the big spots so that A. he didn't burn his body out and B. those various big spots & moves wouldn't lose their impact with the fans. In my opinion, that's developing a more well rounded pro wrestler.
If someone is into what's termed the "indy style" these days, more power to 'em. I just don't think someone should whine about it whenever someone doesn't have the same opinion and voices it just as they do. I just got through watching the UK Championship special and there were a couple of extremely good matches, especially the main event between Tyler Bate and Mark Andrews. There were some flashy spots and there were a few flips, but there was also storytelling, using psychology, technical wrestling and some good physical ground & pound. Mark Andrews, all 155 lbs. of him, showed during the match that he's a pretty decent mat guy and can actually do more than just flip through the air. To me, it was a great pro wrestling match that had style but said style didn't overshadow substance by any degree.
BestSportsEntertainer
I Don't Need No User Title
I don't even like Trump, but I think he is better than Hillary.
Well if he did, then he needs to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
Back on topic, maybe wrestling is art. Maybe it's not.
But who cares as long as the fans are entertained? That's the main goal and always should be.
In nutshell, this was petty from Randy Orton and Rip Rogers. I don't know much about Rip Rogers but now I don't even want to know more about him.
It's ridiculous that Randy Orton is talking about in-ring psychology. Just see his match against Bray Wyatt at Wrestlemania 33. Where was the in-ring psychology? And that was WWE Championship match. Take another match into consideration. WWE Universal Championship match between Goldberg and Brock Lesnar. It was a finisher on finisher. Where was the in-ring psychology? Their match at Wrestlemania 20 had some story telling but this match was just a move fest. How about Randy asks Brock Lesnar to do something other than German suplexes and F5? No, he won't do that as it could lead to some repercussions for him. But you can easily say whatever to Indy Wrestling while you're the top champion in the company that is the biggest wrestling promotion. Because there won't be any problems to you. You can sit on top and insult the others below you. But that doesn't make you right. Why you can't say anything to someone in your company rather than outside of it? Because you are hypocrite.
The Indy wrestlers tend to their audience. WWE wrestlers tend to their audience. Wrestling is wrestling and neither wrestling is better than another. There are different styles out there which is good. And people have different tastes. Does that make Indy wrestling inferior? No. Just because you dont use that style, it doesn't make that particular style bad. You don't need to insult others for their choice. Heck I never liked Ric Flair. Same for The Rock. Does that make them talentless? No, they just aren't my type. Randy Orton needs to learn to respect different styles of wrestling instead of having a superiority complex.
It's just too petty for a World Champion. Even more for a 13× World Champion.
It's ridiculous that Randy Orton is talking about in-ring psychology. Just see his match against Bray Wyatt at Wrestlemania 33. Where was the in-ring psychology? And that was WWE Championship match. Take another match into consideration. WWE Universal Championship match between Goldberg and Brock Lesnar. It was a finisher on finisher. Where was the in-ring psychology? Their match at Wrestlemania 20 had some story telling but this match was just a move fest. How about Randy asks Brock Lesnar to do something other than German suplexes and F5? No, he won't do that as it could lead to some repercussions for him. But you can easily say whatever to Indy Wrestling while you're the top champion in the company that is the biggest wrestling promotion. Because there won't be any problems to you. You can sit on top and insult the others below you. But that doesn't make you right. Why you can't say anything to someone in your company rather than outside of it? Because you are hypocrite.
The Indy wrestlers tend to their audience. WWE wrestlers tend to their audience. Wrestling is wrestling and neither wrestling is better than another. There are different styles out there which is good. And people have different tastes. Does that make Indy wrestling inferior? No. Just because you dont use that style, it doesn't make that particular style bad. You don't need to insult others for their choice. Heck I never liked Ric Flair. Same for The Rock. Does that make them talentless? No, they just aren't my type. Randy Orton needs to learn to respect different styles of wrestling instead of having a superiority complex.
It's just too petty for a World Champion. Even more for a 13× World Champion.
i think some people are missing the point of this whole thing. It's not really criticizing the indy wrestlers, it'S more giving them some advice from somebody that been in the business for a long time. Rip rogers while not a household name is somebody that had a long career mostly in the south. He became a trainer for the WCW power plant after his career was over and was sometime use as a jobber in the early 90's. After that, the guys went to train wrestlers in OVW for a while. So as you can see, the guy knows what he's talking about.
Orton was just retweeting his former trainers tweet because yes, rip rogers did train randy orton and the fact is, he's right in a way. The reason so many indy wrestlers have to retired in their early 30's is because of all those dangerous bump they take every night to please the indy wrestling fans. The reason daniel bryan had to retired at a early age was because of all the concussions and other injury he's taken over the is career in the indy's. Yes that style is great, i'm not disputing that but they really need to slow down and take less high risk bump and sell more if they want someday to make a career out of this. That's some good advice in my opinion.
Orton was just retweeting his former trainers tweet because yes, rip rogers did train randy orton and the fact is, he's right in a way. The reason so many indy wrestlers have to retired in their early 30's is because of all those dangerous bump they take every night to please the indy wrestling fans. The reason daniel bryan had to retired at a early age was because of all the concussions and other injury he's taken over the is career in the indy's. Yes that style is great, i'm not disputing that but they really need to slow down and take less high risk bump and sell more if they want someday to make a career out of this. That's some good advice in my opinion.
Advice doesn't come with free mocking as well. Advice is something else. Mocking wrestlers for wrestling for $8 while stating that Smackdown has earned $5 million. That's mocking. And since you're on the bigger side, that makes you even a bigger loser, Randy.
Someone who's unshaven in the first part of a match and then shaven in the second part of the match is talking about in-ring psychology and consistency. Oh, the irony.
Still, everything happens for a good reason. After Randy's loser like comments, I've actually started watching Indy Wrestling. Thanks, Randy. Since bunch of wrestlers in Indy Wrestling are way better than you.
Someone who's unshaven in the first part of a match and then shaven in the second part of the match is talking about in-ring psychology and consistency. Oh, the irony.
Still, everything happens for a good reason. After Randy's loser like comments, I've actually started watching Indy Wrestling. Thanks, Randy. Since bunch of wrestlers in Indy Wrestling are way better than you.
Advice doesn't come with free mocking as well. Advice is something else. Mocking wrestlers for wrestling for $8 while stating that Smackdown has earned $5 million. That's mocking. And since you're on the bigger side, that makes you even a bigger loser, Randy.
Someone who's unshaven in the first part of a match and then shaven in the second part of the match is talking about in-ring psychology and consistency. Oh, the irony.
Still, everything happens for a good reason. After Randy's loser like comments, I've actually started watching Indy Wrestling. Thanks, Randy. Since bunch of wrestlers in Indy Wrestling are way better than you.
??? Randy's probably tired of getting shitted on by Indy fan neckbeards, and who can blame him? Randy has been a phenomenal pro wrestler. But because his father was a wrestler and he was a blue chip prospect and has always been in phenomenal shape and has the height and size....the neckbeards don't give him the respect they give the less talented fat guys or short guys that do all the flippy kicks. It's really dishonest because Randy is a better wrestler than 99% of them. He's not fat or short and he got his break very early.....and too many people pathetically hold all that against him.
I don't know when or how he was getting shitted upon. If he was then it shows about those who shitted on him. When your father is in the same business as you, then you'll be getting advantages due to that and those advantages will be enough to question your talent. Now he has unintentionally given more importance and exposure to those wrestlers. They'll mock him even more. Just like RKO was mocked lately. For me, It's more about talent. I don't care if you do flippy stuff or technical stuff. I want entertainment through wrestling. That's all. And I know that there was no need of Randy Orton to mock anyone wrestling in another style or anyone earning lesd while wrestling than him.
LoudClearVoice
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Randy Orton is a future Hall of Famer with a wrestling bloodline. He's a 13 time champion, 2 time Royal Rumble winner, has main evented several Wrestlemanias. These schlubs in the Indies would give anything to do even half of what Randy has done as a professional wrestler.
The reason I quoted your post though is for the second part of it. You hit the nail right on the head and it's a prime example of people loving to hate something. The fans that don't like the Indie scene bash it but then cheer the next Indie guy that makes it big in the WWE. The fans who love indie wrestling, bash WWE yet they keep watching it. If you know it "sucks" or is "not entertaining" or whatever, then why keep watching it? The bottom line is people are always looking for something to complain about.
It's more of "I like this wrestling style and therefore, this style is better than any other style since I like it and I'm better than other people in IWC". Those who are high flying wrestlers are termed as "flip-flops". Those who are technical as "boring". The trend just continues on and on. And such comments by Randy Orton hasn't done any favours. Rather, it has added fuel to fire.
What do you want him to do, just take all the insult tha indy guys were giving without doing nothing?
If you read the original twit, their nothing that was moking them in there, then the indy guys got all out of shape because rip had a point and orton reposted that twit and started postig insult at orton. The guy was just reacting to the insults.
Also, if fans still think that orton got favors just because of who is father was, just go and ask guys like jim cornette and rip Rogers how much favors orton got. He was theat the same way as any other rookie that went through ovw. Talent will always shine through and orton as talent. He migt not be verybody cup of tea, but the guy knows more about the psychology of wrestling ten 90% of indy wrestlers that do all those huge bump for the sake of doing huge bump.
The difference between a guy like orton and a good part of indy wrestlers is that orton had a proper wrestling education. The guys got taught the ins and out of wrestl8ng by guys that had experience like jim cornette, danny davis and rip rogers. Today's guys seem to only learn to basic and then go on to learn the rest on the fly, so you don't get the proper training on how to sell and how to let to audience wanting more by not doing all your stuff in one match.
I don't mind does that like indy wrestling, if you like watching wrestlers killing themselves for almost nothing and guys that might not get a great qualiry of live by their mid 30 because they took too m uch unnecessary bump then that it's your choice, me I rather see somebody that play it save and do less but is able to have a long career.
I would've liked him to respect that Indy appeals to a different wrestling style. But he didn't. Rip Rogers and Randy Orton generalized indy wrestling as just spot fest when it isn't true.
Nopes. They were generalized in the original comment. Tell me if every indy match out there is just like this? The keyword here is "Every".
After throwing an insult himself.
And I should expect that the trainers of Randy Orton will tell if they were partial or impartial while training him? Why would they tell that they were biased? I didn't say that he reached here just due to impact of his father. Nah. But it actually helps.
And how can you say so?
Nah, talent won't shine if you aren't even given any opportunity to showcase your talent. Plenty of talents have been wasted in various areas.
Yeah, as if you've seen each and every indy match ever. Or even each and every Indy wrestler. 90% is an exaggeration. Total exaggeration. Randy Orton is better than 90%. Yet he's unshaven in first part of a match and clean shaven in the second part. Or that Randy whose Wrestlemania match totally followed in-ring psychology.
And tell me Randy being an "Orton" had no part in it?
Again. Indy wrestlers appeal to their specific audience. Not me. Not you. If you're going to see an event, you would like the matches to be top notch quality. Won't you?
Unnecessary bumps should be stopped. But that wasn't the point of both Rip's and Randy's statements. The point was to generalize and mock different wrestling style.
It isn't like that I'm a diehard fan of indy wrestling. Infact, Randy's comments made me check more indy wrestling. Preferences and choices can vary. But you don't need to mock styles you don't like.
Personally, I didn't see that twit as them mocking indy wrestlers but that just my perception on this. I saw it as more of a constructive criticism of today's indy wrestling scene and in a weird way, giving them some advice. To really understand the comment, you have to know rip rogers. The guys as always been outspoken and to the point with no filther about the wrestling business. I listen to a interview he did with jim cornette a while back and it was like this for the whole interview.
Also if you really think that orton got it easy just because of who is father is, look at the class of guys he got in with. John cena, batista, brock lesnar just the name of few that got into ovw. So if you think that he got in based on his name then you can tell that for pretty much any other second and third generation wrestlers that came through wwe. They don't push guys based on who their father his, if that was the case, then curtis axel would be a main event star by now, cody rhodes would still be in wwe in a main event spot same goes with bo dallas and the colons.
The reason orton is in that spot is because he had the talent to connect with the crowd , not because he was doing a millions flip and dive but because he knew how to play a great character.
I'm not a fan of randy orton, personally, but at the same time, I really hate to see all the criticism of orton by the fans and indy wrestlers just because who his father is. If it was john cena or even somebody that went through the indies like aj styles or daniel bryan reposting the same twit, nobody would have made it a big deal. But because it's orton, their alot of peoples that jump on this and started criticizing him. He worked as hard as a john cena or any other main event level star to get were he his and it's sad to see that all his hard work will is tainted by the fact that his dad is cowboy bob orton.
Constructive criticism doesn't include generalization of "every" indy match out there. I doubt if Rip Rogers or Randy Orton have seen every match that took place in independent promotion.
I didn't say that Randy Orton achieved everything at his father's expense. That would be under rating him and his talent. But if you're a son of a wrestler, it does help you. If you're new, then it's more hard. I'm just saying that Randy Orton is talented and hasn't achieved everything due to his father. But his career has been made easier as compared to others. I never said that he's pushed because of his father.
Again millions dives and flips? Such an exaggeration. You're also generalizing it like both of them. Anyone who went through indies like AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan won't be mocking the indies itself. You don't want your own ship to drown, right?
And I'm criticising him on his loser like comments. Not because of being a son of a wrestler. Yes, he's talented but it doesn't give him any right to mock other wrestlers. Criticism can't be done on merit? Or if someone is criticised, there must be something other than merit?
I don't think anyone said he got it easy because his father is Cowboy Bob Orton. What I think Kapu meant was that Orton got in the door because of who his father is. Once there he had to prove himself in order to stay, and he did prove himself.
Others like Rhodes, Reigns, the Uso's and the whole Samoan fraternity had it easier than let's say Joe Blow who walked through the front door asking for a job. And as is the case with Orton, they all had to prove themselves in order to remain with the WWE. When the owner of the company knows watched you grow up from a small kid it is a lot easier, anyone who tells you differently is a not of sound mind and body.
Doesn't mean they all will be or should be main event stars, but they got a pass in getting a job to begin with.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I agree that their comments were an exaggeration when it comes to "every" indy match and promotion out there. However, I sorta look at it as a critique of the style that's been embraced, is being embraced and will continue to be embraced by the indy scene. After all, over the past few years, when you look at the indy wrestlers who've gotten the most attention and generated the most buzz, it's been those like the Young Bucks, Will Ospreay, Ricochet/Prince Puma who rely almost constantly on high spots, heavily choreographed spots, flips, suicide dives and essentially one high impact move after another.
The whole debate sort of puts me in mind of instances in which I've heard Taz talk about ECW and getting upset when people constantly talk about all the over the top violence and how there was more to ECW than that. While that might be so, the over the top violence was ALWAYS used as ECW's selling point. I remember seeing advertisements for ECW ppvs featuring various clips spliced together with either Paul Heyman or Joey Styles hyping the action and the sort of images I always saw were Tommy Dreamer knocking Brian Lee through stacks of tables, Super Crazy doing a moonsault off a balcony, New Jack jumping/falling off a balcony and smacking his head against the unprotected floor, Sabu leaping onto someone & putting him through tables, Taz & Bam Bam Bigelow crashing through that platform that always led out to the ring, etc. While there might have been more to ECW than just the extreme violence, it's the image that they embraced just as the indy scene, as a whole, more & more embraces the spot monkey philosophy.
I've listen to a Kenny Omega interview on the law today that i really found interesting because i wasn't expecting some of the stuff he talk about. It was weird to hear somebody that pretty much represent the indy scene right now talk about how he's more of a fan of storytelling instead of doing high spot for high spot sake and that the shooting star press while a really beautiful move now a day, feel just like a transitional spot now instead of a finisher like in the 90's. He kinda criticize without really criticizing the guys that use high spot for high spot sake. All and all it was a really fun interview to listen to and it showed how much the guy as grown as a performer over the years.
I think that this interview kinda fit really well with the whole debate because it's one the the bigger name in indy wrestling talking about the way he approach wrestling and some of the problem in the indy scene right now. I really suggest that you go listen to it either through their podcast or one their youtube channel.
I think that this interview kinda fit really well with the whole debate because it's one the the bigger name in indy wrestling talking about the way he approach wrestling and some of the problem in the indy scene right now. I really suggest that you go listen to it either through their podcast or one their youtube channel.
ISkye
Pre-Show Stalwart
When Okada is only making less than guys like AJ, Ambrose, Reigns, HHH, Cena, Lesnar, and Shane McMahon it's rather ridiculous to call Him, Tanahashi, Omega, etc Indy guys. The guys responsible for 4x NJPW's revenue are far from even top ROH talent at this point. A majority of these guys are very in tune with psychology regardless of their wrestling style. Randy was seemingly just having tongue in cheek fun over a couple of drinks, but actually shared a legitimate piece of criticism originally posted by a credible individual. It was a critique with a little humor, nothing more.
So exclude the Peak of NJPW talent. Naito, Tanahashi, Liger, Omega, Okada, etc. Let's look at the top Talent outside the sports entertainment world. The Bucks. They are beyond talented and are actually great at storytelling. Even if you don't like how they are they are beyond fantastic at what they do and how they do it. Lethal, Castle, Marty, Matt Riddle, Chris Hero, Tommy End, #DIY, Candice, Io, Heidi Lovelace, Ricochet, Ospreay, Cody Rhodes, Cole, Elgin, Drew, Tyler Bates, Pete Dunne, Kris Wolf, Swann, Zack Sabre Jr, Hojo, Gordon, Cobb, Pentagon, Del rio, Fenix, and plenty others. All of those names and others have decent in ring work, and are unique in their own right. Now think. For every one of those 100, maybe 500 guys there are 1000 bad ones trying to mimic them. It's not even a 1% exception, and Randy was there to at a point. It's advice not only for the guys trying to grind their life away for their passion, but advice people eventually learn themselves through experience. That's why a lot of these exceptions are a decade plus into making this a thing and are consistently sharpening and polishing their art and have matured.
Isnt much going on here. I'm sure Randy who is an absolute great in the ring gets plenty of tweets from Indy dudes and has an idea. He's probably unaware of the cream of the crop, but that's why you should exclude them just from knowing better.
So exclude the Peak of NJPW talent. Naito, Tanahashi, Liger, Omega, Okada, etc. Let's look at the top Talent outside the sports entertainment world. The Bucks. They are beyond talented and are actually great at storytelling. Even if you don't like how they are they are beyond fantastic at what they do and how they do it. Lethal, Castle, Marty, Matt Riddle, Chris Hero, Tommy End, #DIY, Candice, Io, Heidi Lovelace, Ricochet, Ospreay, Cody Rhodes, Cole, Elgin, Drew, Tyler Bates, Pete Dunne, Kris Wolf, Swann, Zack Sabre Jr, Hojo, Gordon, Cobb, Pentagon, Del rio, Fenix, and plenty others. All of those names and others have decent in ring work, and are unique in their own right. Now think. For every one of those 100, maybe 500 guys there are 1000 bad ones trying to mimic them. It's not even a 1% exception, and Randy was there to at a point. It's advice not only for the guys trying to grind their life away for their passion, but advice people eventually learn themselves through experience. That's why a lot of these exceptions are a decade plus into making this a thing and are consistently sharpening and polishing their art and have matured.
Isnt much going on here. I'm sure Randy who is an absolute great in the ring gets plenty of tweets from Indy dudes and has an idea. He's probably unaware of the cream of the crop, but that's why you should exclude them just from knowing better.
Kenny Omega will obviously prefer storytelling and so do I. He's easily one of the best wrestlers at this time and you can't even get close to being the best wrestler without any storytelling. His match against Tetsuya Naito last year in G1 Climax showcased almost perfect storytelling even when it was a heel VS heel match. It was easily a classic match. And the match against Kazuchika Okada at Wrestle Kingdom 11, it's well known how good it was.
