The *Official* John Cena Thread

[Wrath]

Yes and what's wrong with that. Every promotions purpose is making money and every wrestlers purpose is making money for company by entertaining the fans. It's how this business works. If you start a discussion of he knows 5 moves he is talentless and all that kind of crap you better not start. Every wrestler's first purpose is to entertain fans if John Cena makes money it means he is entertaining everyone wants to see him and pay for it. Now you'll tell me only kids and girls love him and again what's wrong with that it's better for company. Remember back Hogan had too many younger fans and when they grow up Hogan changed his gimmick and they still loved him it's same for Cena.

I'm also bored from this whole double standart. You talk like Austin and Hogan got their pushes because of their technical skills. If someone tries to say this then that guy has no fucking idea idea what he is talking about. Triple H gets his push because he makes money,Edge gets his push because he makes money,Orton gets his push because he makes money and John Cena is the top star because he makes the most money. It's that simple. Making most money means being the biggest draw which means being the most entertaining guy on the roster. John Cena is much more entertaining for people than Dean Malenko with his 5 moves. That's why Malenko couldn't go much more than being a decent midcarder and look at John Cena being the top face of the biggest company.

Wrestling is just a business. Promoters needs to make money if they can't they bankrupt. Please understand it wrestling is not a legimate sport athletism is not that important. If you can entertain people and make people want to watch you it means you're good proffesional wrestler. If no one cared Austin his technical skills did mean nothing more than a shit. Why do I have to love something even though I find it exremely boring but love it because it was a technical masterpiece. I'd rather watch an entertaining match or promo of John Cena. For example I find Japanese wrestling hell boring and I don't care if those matches are better than in USA or more technical. I just can't like it and I don't watch it.

Every wrestler wrestle to entertain people if they can't do it doesn't matter how much in ring ability they had. It's same for all of the wrestler that you listed if they can't entertain crowd it means they don't deserve ME push but everyone wants to see John Cena thats why a lot of people watch the show. They want to see him wrestle and they pay for him because they find him entertaining. It should be same for you. Why do you watch wrestling to spot talent and analyse the show. I personally watch to be entertained because I love wrestling it's one of my interests and when I watch an episode of RAW,SD,ECW or iMPACT I don't watch it to analyse somethin I watch it because I love it and John Cena is a huge part of it.

 

[mayhem]

I agree that it is a business and the promoters are out to make money. However Cena is pushed too heavily and sometimes we want to see talent in the main event scene who can wrestle and not so much entertain all the time. For example some of the wrestlers mentioned at the beginning are underutilized.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I agree that it is a business and the promoters are out to make money. However Cena is pushed too heavily and sometimes we want to see talent in the main event scene who can wrestle and not so much entertain all the time. For example some of the wrestlers mentioned at the beginning are underutilized.

I don't agree with your list because there is no way, shape, or form that Benjamin is better than Cena in the ring but we can get into that later. Cena hasn't been pushed heavily since 2007. I guess I keep having to play this song and dance with people and tell them that Cena can wrestle but I always hear about his 5 moves of doom. None of the wrestlers you mention are being underutilized because of Cena. I guess people still complain about Cena even when we had 50 HHH/Orton matches this year.

 

[Gotahn]

Cena showed us his potential when he debuted against Kurt Angle on Smackdown. That match was phenomenal. I'll never forget it. The unfortunate part for Cena is his move set has given him a reputation, but a negative one.

I will admit that Austin and The Rock did have a standard moveset, but because of their dichotic and OVER THE TOP entertaiment value they were untouchable. Note: Rock did change some moves as the years went on; i.e Belly to Belly Overhead Suplex, jumping clothesline, DDT/nip up combo, running back elbow, and The Sharpshooter. Attitude era Rock really only regularly executed the Samoan Drop, Russian Leg Sweep, Tilt-a-Whirl spinebuster, scoop slam, and a standard suplex.

Sorry to digress of onto other superstars, but Cena needs to reach into the plethora of his moves and make things happen or he it just adds to his incompletion as a all around wrestler, because let's be honest here, WWE is targeted towards kids yes, but John Cena is not a favorite to all demographics. Again, look at wrestlers like Austin and Rock, EVERYONE loved them, kids included. Kids are not the only ones in the seats, and if John Cena truly appealed to everyone then everyone would be on their feet when he comes out.

I will make my last point though, because I do RESPECT John Cena as a man. His work ethic is like no other and he sends messages to children of perseverance, passion, hard work, drive, and other qualities that are good additives for the children. Cena fits in the WWPGE. I really couldn't see a PG Stone Cold Steve Austin or Rock.

I agree, as a man I respect Jon Cena. I actually met him and to be honest he was the only Superstar that picked my son up and took a picture with him. That is saying something about a true role model.

Now that I have "paid my respects" Let's get down to buisness. This is what drives me up the wall about John Cena. His promos. Yes I said promos. You could ask Cena if he has a itch on his back and for the next 5 to 10 minutes we will hear hollering and screaming and walking down to the ring etc. etc..... Yes we can all say The Rock did somewhat of the same thing, but let's face it people it was done with class and charisma. Cena, in my opinion doesn't have that type of personality trait. My problem is not the 5 Moves of Doom per se, but the way it is executed. Sharpsh00ter23, remember on Summerslam when I called the whole Cena match like I booked it myself? This is my gripe about it. So I will stop right here.

 

[YoYoYumba]

I mean that there are much more important things in the world to be mad about than John Cena.

Ofcourse there is but this is a Cena thread so I'm here to voice my opinion on him.

People do bash wrestlers on here, except they are usually intelligent about it.

Having a go at my intelligence now? That's pretty sad and I'm not going to get drawn into that sort of argument here because that's not what I'm here for. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion here. Stick to the topic of the thread.

There are plenty of other places you can see sex, cursing, and blood. I personally can do without it. It added nothing to the product, and I really didn't like it at all.

I'm aware you can go elsewhere for sex,cursing, blood etc but I enjoy that sort of thing in the WWE. I think it all adds up to make a more entertaining and edgy product and I'm sure many others would agree with me.

Just because they don't actively cheer against him doesn't mean they cheer for him. You can sit there quietly, too.

This really didn't make any sense to me.

It is very hard to play a perfect role model character. Go out today and try to be John Cena's character for a few hours today and see how hard it is

.

Cena, like all the other wrestlers in the WWE is playing a character and is simply doing his job. There's nothing extra difficult in playing the kind of role he does. They write up a script and everyone just follows it throughout the night. Cena does nothing extra special.

Was Triple H funny in the build up to WrestleMania? When was the last time you heard Undertaker or Jeff Hardy crack a joke? Faces don't need to be funny.

They don't have to be but it is good sometimes if they can be. Triple H has been really funny on a number of occassions so you can't just take attack him for not being funny on the build up for one event. The undertaker is not supposed to be funny and that's just the way his character has always been so discount him from this. Neway this isn't about them and the bottom line is you think Cena is funny and I don't. Let's move on.

You mean they aren't?

You said all people on youtube must be morons. I said that's like saying all african american's must be great at basketball. I was pointing out the logic by which your going by. My logic is not every african american has to be great at basketball, just like not every person on you tube in necessarily a moron. Understand?

Triple H and Shawn are just as predictable. Watch a typical Cena victory, then a typical Trips or HBK victory from the last couple years. The will look pretty similar.

I completely disagree. Both Triple H and Shawn Michaels are alot better in the ring and have had far better matches overall than Cena. Cena's matches are nothing like either of those two greats so don't even go there. Cena's matches have been extremely predictable for quiet a few years now, which is why so many people think his crap in the ring. His matches are boring...the shoulder bumps...the you can't see me crap...the stf....all shit.

Go watch his promo from Raw last night. It was one of the best promos in recent memory.

Saw it...same old crap...your getting carried away, it was nothing special.

So you don't like that he has a very honorable montra he lives by? It may be cheesy, but it is a very good way to live, character or not.

In real life that's fine if that's the way he lives. Like I said I don't need to listen to that cheesy shit when I'm watching the WWE. It's almost like your back in school or watching a children's learning program.

Usted no me puede ver.

Sorry, don't understand. Speak english.

Never said it was. If you want to kick back and relax, do that and quit bitching about the best face in the company.

Yeah really funny. I have every right to come on here and voice my opinion on Cena and at the same time have the right to sit back and enjoy a good show as well.

Yep, because kids have disposable income . Cena always gets the loudest reactions, and gets 95% cheers from most crowds now. He is the best face in the company.

I think your getting carried away there. He is the best face in your opinion and he has been getting mixed reactions for a number of years now even though his been a face. In the current roster the biggest names are Triple H and the Undertaker who definately get the loudest reactions because they are overall more respected by wrestling fans in general and when they've been faces they have never had mixed reactions from the crowds like Cena has for a number of years now.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I completely disagree. Both Triple H and Shawn Michaels are alot better in the ring and have had far better matches overall than Cena. Cena's matches are nothing like either of those two greats so don't even go there. Cena's matches have been extremely predictable for quiet a few years now, which is why so many people think his crap in the ring. His matches are boring...the shoulder bumps...the you can't see me crap...the stf....all shit.

I will have to disagree about the HHH part. His last great match was in 2001 with Stone Cold and he has one with the Rock, Undertaker, and HBK but that is about it. Cena has had great matches with Orton, Lashley, Umaga, HBK, Batista, and the list goes on. If you ever noticed Cena isn't the only one whose matches are predictable. The same applies for Undertaker, HHH, HBK, and pretty much 90% of the WWE roster.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The John Cena List: Part One​

I was challenged by a poster named General Disarray to create my John Cena Hate List, so I am. This is part one of The John Cena List. In this part I will discuss the major reasons why I dislike him. In part two, I will discuss the minor reasons why I dislike him and I will also list the very few reasons I might like him. So, let’s get started!

*Remember; this is an opinionated post. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that my opinion is fact!*

Reasons I Dislike John Cena​

The John Cena Move set:

If you have ever read any of my posts on my views of John Cena, then you have read me list the, “5 or 6 moves of doom,” as a major reason that I dislike John Cena. We all know what these moves are, but for those of you who are not familiar with them, I will list them once again, in order. 2 shoulder blocks, modified back body drop (idk if this is the official name for it, but I am calling it this), 5 knuckle shuffle, and the Attitude Adjustment. Also, if he misses the Attitude Adjustment then we usually have some transition wrestling for about a minute or two until he either hits the Attitude Adjustment or he locks in the STF.

I get attacked all of the time that it isn’t a wrestler’s move set that makes the wrestler good. I couldn’t agree with this statement more, however, I believe that it is a combination of all things that makes a wrestler good or even great, IMO. Of course, Cena marks will throw Hulk Hogan at me, as he is considered the greatest professional wrestler of all time and to say that he had a limited move set is an understatement. Hulk Hogan, though, was the greatest hype man/crowd controller of all time. His matches are not remembered for being wrestling clinics, but his matches are remembered for being wrestling spectacles. John Cena is nowhere near the level of entertainer that Hulk Hogan was and he probably never will be.

Back to Cena however. It really isn’t his moves that I have a major problem with because almost every wrestler has a set of signature moves that they will use at some point in a match, but it is the way in which he uses those moves. You can call a Cena match like you are the one that booked it. A typical Cena match goes like this: Cena will start off strong with some punches or kicks, he will then get his ass whipped for about 90% of the match, go into his signature moves of death, and win the match with his opponent taking little damage throughout the match. Now other wrestlers like Shawn Michaels might end the match almost the same way every time, however, their matches do not go the same way, same pace, or use the same type of heel/face psychology all the time. As far as in ring work goes, Cena is a one trick pony. Sure, I have been satisfied with Cena matches before, but those few Cena matches do not out number the many that I dislike or consider to be bad matches.

The John Cena Push:

When John Cena was first drafted to Raw, this really wasn’t a problem because we had Batista and HHH finishing up their feud. So Cena took a back seat to those two for about a month until Batista was drafted to Smack Down. When Batista left Raw, however, the flood gates were opened and Cena hell poured out into the wrestling audience.

Cena was made out to be the next greatest thing in professional wrestling since Steve Austin, but it didn’t take like Steve Austin did because Austin was built up over a period of time and we, the fans, ultimately made the decision on Austin. We, the fans, weren’t so lucky with Cena. Cena was ultimately shoved down our throats for a very long period of time. IMO he wasn’t proven enough to be the top star in the WWE and I think that is why he was received on Raw, at first, in such a bad light. Cena would be booed out of the building for a very long time and this was the top face in the WWE. Now if that isn’t the fans telling you something, I don’t what is. WWE, however, stayed the course and it seemed like the more we booed, the more Cena was shoved into the spotlight. Before long, he was dominating Raw, while still getting booed.

Fans were tired of seeing Cena, but the more we hated it, the more we got. WWE ultimately made a good decision with Cena by letting him go on a very lengthy title run. IMO, this won a lot of people over with Cena because he was actually having some pretty good feuds and matches while in this run. His title run did a lot in terms of making the WWE title prestigious again and it gave us a lot of new feuds with the Main Event on Raw, unlike we have now.

So why Cena really isn’t shoved on us anymore, however, your die hard wrestling fan remembers how easily he came up into the spotlight and it was literally a reaction of, “Who the fuck does he think he is?” You marks might say that Orton is pushed on us now, but I say that Orton was years in the making. He worked very hard, what with HHH burying him, working with The Undertaker, jobbing to Hulk Hogan, and working with DX to get where he is now. So I consider Orton proven to be a good main event star and it seemed like he was molded into carrying the WWE title. Cena was just pushed to the top too hard and too fast, IMO.

The John Cena Character:

A lot of people remember the Rapper John Cena from Smack Down, but when he got to Raw he became the uber babyface that we enjoy now. There really isn’t that much to say about John Cena’s character. At first, it wasn’t an issue. Lately, however, his character has become a bit boring and predictable.

He comes across a lot of times as a silly comic relief and then he tries to get serious on us by cutting a very enraged promo here and there. It really kills his character’s credibility to be so silly and then be so serious. Sometimes it is hard to figure out just what John Cena is supposed to be. I am just going to stick with the uber babyface who is predictable and stale with what he is going to do.

The John Cena Promo:

This one really isn’t a huge issue to me, but I do find his promos to be a bit stale or bland sometimes. I much rather prefer a serious Cena promo as opposed to a Cena trying to be funny, but ultimately coming across as stupid promo. When HHH and HBK try the funny promo, they catch hell from us, but no one bitches about when John Cena does it.

His serious promos are much better, however, they are very predictable. If I were Josh Matthews and asked him if his ass itched, he would spend the next 5 minutes yelling to everyone about how everybody got an ass itch from time to time and that you shouldn’t scratch it in public and if he get’s an ass itch at the PPV, it isn’t going to stop him from achieving his ultimate goal and blah blah blah.

The John Cena Conclusion:

IMO, John Cena is just all around bland, boring, stale, and predictable. It might be a matter of taste or style, but I just don’t find John Cena appealing at all. He is about as interesting as watching paint dry. He is the top face in the company, however, so there must be something good about him, right? When ever you find out what that is, please tell me.

BTW marks don’t come back with it’s a business and he makes the most money and he should be the top because of that. He isn’t making anyone in this forum money, is he? Then why should his ability to draw affect us in the least?

 

[Franchize1990]

You actually have some valid points I just wanted to figure a couple of things out first you said:

All Cena does, besides some punches and kicks, are his signature moves though. That is why he is pointed out more than the rest.

I just wanted to know what you consider as his signature moves so we can be clear on that.

Second, I just wanted to know what happened to your post about the tag match between the Hadry Boyz/Morrison vs the Hart Dynasty/ CM Punk a while ago. I remember you posting something like this when you all were talking about hot tags and stuff like that:

Not all of the time. Yes, we know that the fresh face is going to come in and go on an offensive run, but not exactly end the match. WWE is trying to make Jericho and Big Show a credible tag team and it didn't do them any favors jobbing to Orton and Cena like that. It was ridiculous. I think that all tag matches have become predictable and lame and if we had a forum on other people involved in a tag match, I would say the exact same thing. Cena doesn't get special hate from me, I dish it out equally.

The match between the six ended the same way the Cena/Orton vs JeriShow did and I gave you a couple of weeks to post something but I couldn't find anything in the Hardy Boyz thread on SmackDown!. If you did indeed post something, then I apologize for calling you out on this.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I just wanted to know what you consider as his signature moves so we can be clear on that.

I consider a signature a move that we see from a wrestler more often than not, that we really don't see from anyone else. So, in this sense, a headlock can't be considered a signature because everyone uses it.

So with Cena, for example, I wouldn't consider his leg drop off the top rope a signature because we really only see if from him in PPV matches and it seems like he is doing it less and less. I would consider that Jericho like bull dog he does a signature, however, because we see that from him the majority of his matches.

The match between the six ended the same way the Cena/Orton vs JeriShow did and I gave you a couple of weeks to post something but I couldn't find anything in the Hardy Boyz thread on SmackDown!. If you did indeed post something, then I apologize for calling you out on this.

No, I didn't post anything on this match because I never visited the thread. I never seen a thread that was on the tag match. I do recall seeing a thread on the Hardy Boyz getting back together and the reason that I didn't post in that thread was because I had no opinion on the matter one way or another. I really didn't care that they got back together. If I had have posted in that thread, it would have been a very short post.

If you want to hear me rant about tag matches and how I think that they suck now a days, create a thread on just tag matches and I will be there.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The John Cena List: Part One​

I was challenged by a poster named General Disarray to create my John Cena Hate List, so I am. This is part one of The John Cena List. In this part I will discuss the major reasons why I dislike him. In part two, I will discuss the minor reasons why I dislike him and I will also list the very few reasons I might like him. So, let’s get started!

*Remember; this is an opinionated post. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that my opinion is fact!*

Reasons I Dislike John Cena​

The John Cena Move set:

If you have ever read any of my posts on my views of John Cena, then you have read me list the, “5 or 6 moves of doom,” as a major reason that I dislike John Cena. We all know what these moves are, but for those of you who are not familiar with them, I will list them once again, in order. 2 shoulder blocks, modified back body drop (idk if this is the official name for it, but I am calling it this), 5 knuckle shuffle, and the Attitude Adjustment. Also, if he misses the Attitude Adjustment then we usually have some transition wrestling for about a minute or two until he either hits the Attitude Adjustment or he locks in the STF.

I get attacked all of the time that it isn’t a wrestler’s move set that makes the wrestler good. I couldn’t agree with this statement more, however, I believe that it is a combination of all things that makes a wrestler good or even great, IMO. Of course, Cena marks will throw Hulk Hogan at me, as he is considered the greatest professional wrestler of all time and to say that he had a limited move set is an understatement. Hulk Hogan, though, was the greatest hype man/crowd controller of all time. His matches are not remembered for being wrestling clinics, but his matches are remembered for being wrestling spectacles. John Cena is nowhere near the level of entertainer that Hulk Hogan was and he probably never will be.

Back to Cena however. It really isn’t his moves that I have a major problem with because almost every wrestler has a set of signature moves that they will use at some point in a match, but it is the way in which he uses those moves. You can call a Cena match like you are the one that booked it. A typical Cena match goes like this: Cena will start off strong with some punches or kicks, he will then get his ass whipped for about 90% of the match, go into his signature moves of death, and win the match with his opponent taking little damage throughout the match. Now other wrestlers like Shawn Michaels might end the match almost the same way every time, however, their matches do not go the same way, same pace, or use the same type of heel/face psychology all the time. As far as in ring work goes, Cena is a one trick pony. Sure, I have been satisfied with Cena matches before, but those few Cena matches do not out number the many that I dislike or consider to be bad matches.

The John Cena Push:

When John Cena was first drafted to Raw, this really wasn’t a problem because we had Batista and HHH finishing up their feud. So Cena took a back seat to those two for about a month until Batista was drafted to Smack Down. When Batista left Raw, however, the flood gates were opened and Cena hell poured out into the wrestling audience.

Cena was made out to be the next greatest thing in professional wrestling since Steve Austin, but it didn’t take like Steve Austin did because Austin was built up over a period of time and we, the fans, ultimately made the decision on Austin. We, the fans, weren’t so lucky with Cena. Cena was ultimately shoved down our throats for a very long period of time. IMO he wasn’t proven enough to be the top star in the WWE and I think that is why he was received on Raw, at first, in such a bad light. Cena would be booed out of the building for a very long time and this was the top face in the WWE. Now if that isn’t the fans telling you something, I don’t what is. WWE, however, stayed the course and it seemed like the more we booed, the more Cena was shoved into the spotlight. Before long, he was dominating Raw, while still getting booed.

Fans were tired of seeing Cena, but the more we hated it, the more we got. WWE ultimately made a good decision with Cena by letting him go on a very lengthy title run. IMO, this won a lot of people over with Cena because he was actually having some pretty good feuds and matches while in this run. His title run did a lot in terms of making the WWE title prestigious again and it gave us a lot of new feuds with the Main Event on Raw, unlike we have now.

So why Cena really isn’t shoved on us anymore, however, your die hard wrestling fan remembers how easily he came up into the spotlight and it was literally a reaction of, “Who the fuck does he think he is?” You marks might say that Orton is pushed on us now, but I say that Orton was years in the making. He worked very hard, what with HHH burying him, working with The Undertaker, jobbing to Hulk Hogan, and working with DX to get where he is now. So I consider Orton proven to be a good main event star and it seemed like he was molded into carrying the WWE title. Cena was just pushed to the top too hard and too fast, IMO.

The John Cena Character:

A lot of people remember the Rapper John Cena from Smack Down, but when he got to Raw he became the uber babyface that we enjoy now. There really isn’t that much to say about John Cena’s character. At first, it wasn’t an issue. Lately, however, his character has become a bit boring and predictable.

He comes across a lot of times as a silly comic relief and then he tries to get serious on us by cutting a very enraged promo here and there. It really kills his character’s credibility to be so silly and then be so serious. Sometimes it is hard to figure out just what John Cena is supposed to be. I am just going to stick with the uber babyface who is predictable and stale with what he is going to do.

The John Cena Promo:

This one really isn’t a huge issue to me, but I do find his promos to be a bit stale or bland sometimes. I much rather prefer a serious Cena promo as opposed to a Cena trying to be funny, but ultimately coming across as stupid promo. When HHH and HBK try the funny promo, they catch hell from us, but no one bitches about when John Cena does it.

His serious promos are much better, however, they are very predictable. If I were Josh Matthews and asked him if his ass itched, he would spend the next 5 minutes yelling to everyone about how everybody got an ass itch from time to time and that you shouldn’t scratch it in public and if he get’s an ass itch at the PPV, it isn’t going to stop him from achieving his ultimate goal and blah blah blah.

The John Cena Conclusion:

IMO, John Cena is just all around bland, boring, stale, and predictable. It might be a matter of taste or style, but I just don’t find John Cena appealing at all. He is about as interesting as watching paint dry. He is the top face in the company, however, so there must be something good about him, right? When ever you find out what that is, please tell me.

BTW marks don’t come back with it’s a business and he makes the most money and he should be the top because of that. He isn’t making anyone in this forum money, is he? Then why should his ability to draw affect us in the least?

1. You state that Cena is predictable and that he gets beat 90% of the time and comes back to win. Well you can say the same for HHH and HBK as well. They get dominated most of the time and still win. It's the heel's job to dominate and then let the face come back and win occasionally. Do we Cena dominating a heel most of the time and the answer is no because that would make the heel look back.

2. Who else was going to be mainstay of RAW when Batista left? Jericho has proven he is a terrible world champion and I'm not even going to start with Christian. Angle was busy fighting people over gold medals and Edge was in a storyline with Kane. And plus, Cena was the champ so why wouldn't you push the champ?

3. Cena is one of the best promo guys out there right behind Punk, Jericho, Edge, and maybe HHH since he has gotten boring over the years. HBK doesn't say much anymore so I'm not going to include him.

 

[BooCocky]

Did you really just use the five moves of doom argument when your favorite wrestler is Shawn Michaels... This is a normal Michaels match... Get ass beat, throw some punches, atomic drop, top rope elbow, tuning up the band and a sweet chin music.

Wow you need a better argument on why you hate John Cena. Cena is a tremendous promo worker, he's so enthusiastic it isn't even funny and he knows how to grasp the audience and he can make them eat out the palm of his hands.. Cena is just great.

The Cena push is really nothing, Vince found a guy with skill who appealed to the masses. A guy who works hard, trains hard, and eat sleeps and breathes the business. Randy Orton has been getting shoved down our throat for years now and basically CM Punk has been getting shoved down our throat for months, and recently Jeff Hardy was shoved down our throats, yet it was okay when they were doing it.

 

[SSJPhenom]

1. You state that Cena is predictable and that he gets beat 90% of the time and comes back to win. Well you can say the same for HHH and HBK as well. They get dominated most of the time and still win. It's the heel's job to dominate and then let the face come back and win occasionally. Do we Cena dominating a heel most of the time and the answer is no because that would make the heel look back.

I will admit that HBK is leaning more towards this now in his advanced age, but in the 90's the man was brilliant in the ring and really never got dominated by anyone. We do see this from Cena all of the time, however. I'm sorry, but your little heel/face theory only works for Hogan and Cena. We never seen it from Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart, and I could go on, when they were faces or face champs.

2. Who else was going to be mainstay of RAW when Batista left? Jericho has proven he is a terrible world champion and I'm not even going to start with Christian. Angle was busy fighting people over gold medals and Edge was in a storyline with Kane. And plus, Cena was the champ so why wouldn't you push the champ?

IDK who else was going to be a main stay on Raw. My arguement wasn't that someone else deserved it. My arguement was that Cena really hadn't done anything to deserve the top spot in the company. He wasn't proven and that is why alot of fans had problems with him.

3. Cena is one of the best promo guys out there right behind Punk, Jericho, Edge, and maybe HHH since he has gotten boring over the years. HBK doesn't say much anymore so I'm not going to include him.

Did I say that his promos were bad? I simply said that sometimes they were a bit bland, stale, and predictable. I said that I didn't like his funny routine and that I thought his serious promos were alot better.

BTW, I will agree that C.M. Punk is doing the best mic work right now in the WWE.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Did you really just use the five moves of doom argument when your favorite wrestler is Shawn Michaels... This is a normal Michaels match... Get ass beat, throw some punches, atomic drop, top rope elbow, tuning up the band and a sweet chin music.

Did you really just state that Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler? Just read my name! BTW, I stated in my post that Michaels ended his matches almost the same way everytime. Did you not read that part?

Wow you need a better argument on why you hate John Cena. Cena is a tremendous promo worker, he's so enthusiastic it isn't even funny and he knows how to grasp the audience and he can make them eat out the palm of his hands.. Cena is just great.

I think that my arguements on why I dislike Cena are great. Remember, it was my opinion and I care not whether you share my opinion. Just like it is your opinion on his mic work. I happen to think that there are several in the WWE that cut better promos. Like, CM Punk and Jericho.

The Cena push is really nothing, Vince found a guy with skill who appealed to the masses. A guy who works hard, trains hard, and eat sleeps and breathes the business. Randy Orton has been getting shoved down our throat for years now and basically CM Punk has been getting shoved down our throat for months, and recently Jeff Hardy was shoved down our throats, yet it was okay when they were doing it.

You didn't read my post at all did you? I covered every bit of this in my post. Just go read it. I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.

 

[Franchize1990]

I consider a signature a move that we see from a wrestler more often than not, that we really don't see from anyone else. So, in this sense, a headlock can't be considered a signature because everyone uses it.

So with Cena, for example, I wouldn't consider his leg drop off the top rope a signature because we really only see if from him in PPV matches and it seems like he is doing it less and less. I would consider that Jericho like bull dog he does a signature, however, because we see that from him the majority of his matches.

O.K so he still has moves like the sidewalk slam, ddt, fisherman's suplex, belly to back takedown then transitions to a full front face lock, belly to belly takedown, the back body drop, scoopslam, a back drop, a few sleeper holds, a couple of armbars, a couple of variations of a hip toss, the leg drop from the top rope, the throwback, an occasional elobw drop, drop toe hold, clothesline, and a schoolboy roll-up. So not everything he does is a signature move.

No, I didn't post anything on this match because I never visited the thread. I never seen a thread that was on the tag match. I do recall seeing a thread on the Hardy Boyz getting back together and the reason that I didn't post in that thread was because I had no opinion on the matter one way or another. I really didn't care that they got back together. If I had have posted in that thread, it would have been a very short post

Understandable

 

[SSJPhenom]

O.K so he still has moves like the sidewalk slam, ddt, fisherman's suplex, belly to back takedown then transitions to a full front face lock, belly to belly takedown, the back body drop, scoopslam, a back drop, a few sleeper holds, a couple of armbars, a couple of variations of a hip toss, the leg drop from the top rope, the throwback, an occasional elobw drop, drop toe hold, clothesline, and a schoolboy roll-up. So not everything he does is a signature move.

You know, I have seen these moves from Cena before. I'm sure I have seen them from the majority of the locker room before. The fact that he might do a move or two out his signatures every other match or two matches doesn't change the fact that he uses his signatures almost the entire match, except for when he is getting his ass handed to him for 90% of all matches that he is in.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Having a go at my intelligence now? That's pretty sad and I'm not going to get drawn into that sort of argument here because that's not what I'm here for. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion here. Stick to the topic of the thread.

I never said you couldn't voice your opinion. I'm just saying that a whiny, curse-laden, misspelled rant of a post won't get you too far.

I'm aware you can go elsewhere for sex,cursing, blood etc but I enjoy that sort of thing in the WWE. I think it all adds up to make a more entertaining and edgy product and I'm sure many others would agree with me.

I disagree completely. I want wrestling, not Skinimax or Saw.

This really didn't make any sense to me.

Go figure.

Cena, like all the other wrestlers in the WWE is playing a character and is simply doing his job. There's nothing extra difficult in playing the kind of role he does. They write up a script and everyone just follows it throughout the night. Cena does nothing extra special.

Yes there is. He has people like you hating on him for no reason, when he is playing a perfect face character. It is hard being perfect, and even harder when people rip on you for it.

They don't have to be but it is good sometimes if they can be. Triple H has been really funny on a number of occassions so you can't just take attack him for not being funny on the build up for one event. The undertaker is not supposed to be funny and that's just the way his character has always been so discount him from this. Neway this isn't about them and the bottom line is you think Cena is funny and I don't. Let's move on.

So I can't just take attack him, huh? You may be wrong, but you are clearly out-thinking me.

You said all people on youtube must be morons. I said that's like saying all african american's must be great at basketball. I was pointing out the logic by which your going by. My logic is not every african american has to be great at basketball, just like not every person on you tube in necessarily a moron. Understand?

I understood what you meant the first time. My joke just went over your head.

I completely disagree. Both Triple H and Shawn Michaels are alot better in the ring and have had far better matches overall than Cena. Cena's matches are nothing like either of those two greats so don't even go there. Cena's matches have been extremely predictable for quiet a few years now, which is why so many people think his crap in the ring. His matches are boring...the shoulder bumps...the you can't see me crap...the stf....all shit.

Yeah, just like Shawn always does the flying forearm, the reverse atomic drop, the kip-up, the flying elbow, and the Sweet Chin Music. And just like Trips always does the running knee, knee facebuster, the spinebuster, and the Pedigree. You're right, nothing alike at all.

Saw it...same old crap...your getting carried away, it was nothing special.

And D-X round 89409843278590234875092345023597889430725 isn't the same old crap.

In real life that's fine if that's the way he lives. Like I said I don't need to listen to that cheesy shit when I'm watching the WWE. It's almost like your back in school or watching a children's learning program.

Then don't. Change the channel. It's not that hard. I change channels plenty of times every day.

Sorry, don't understand. Speak english.

No me gusta inglés. Español es más bueno y más interesante.

Yeah really funny. I have every right to come on here and voice my opinion on Cena and at the same time have the right to sit back and enjoy a good show as well.

I don't know why you keep thinking you don't have the right to voice your opinion. You do. Just like I have the right to tell you the hundreds of reasons why you are wrong.

I think your getting carried away there. He is the best face in your opinion and he has been getting mixed reactions for a number of years now even though his been a face. In the current roster the biggest names are Triple H and the Undertaker who definately get the loudest reactions because they are overall more respected by wrestling fans in general and when they've been faces they have never had mixed reactions from the crowds like Cena has for a number of years now.

Well, Undertaker only gets reactions because he's been around for 80 years and takes 9 months off every year, so he gets the "holy shit, he's still around and he's here!" pops when he is on TV. Triple H gets big pops because he's either in D-X or taking on the top heel in the company who attacks his family.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I was finding your response to who ever that guy is very entertaining until you said this shit:

Well, Undertaker only gets reactions because he's been around for 80 years and takes 9 months off every year, so he gets the "holy shit, he's still around and he's here!" pops when he is on TV.

Are you really going to say something so disrespectful about 'Taker? He has only been around for 19 years and he has only been off for 4 months. Don't attack one of the best in ring performers in the WWE to support your Cena opinion! That's not right! He is still a hell of a better in ring performer than Cena. Do you ever think that his crowd reactions might be based off of what he can do aswell as who he is, or based off of pure respect?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Are you really going to say something so disrespectful about 'Taker? He has only been around for 19 years and he has only been off for 4 months. Don't attack one of the best in ring performers in the WWE to support your Cena opinion! That's not right! He is still a hell of a better in ring performer than Cena. Do you ever think that his crowd reactions might be based off of what he can do aswell as who he is, or based off of pure respect?

I won't deny that he is a good in-ring performer, but there is no doubt in my mind that he gets the pops because he is hardly ever around. I won't be discriminatory; Shawn Michaels does the same thing, but they are both the same way. I understand they are legends in the WWE and are both still talented, but there is no way to justify them getting at least 1/3 of the year off every year.

 

[Paradox]

I think that Thiller has a point here. I'm a huge 'Taker fan, though I see his point. The guy is respected by every wrestling fan. He's been with wwe for over 20 years. Many know when he comes out it's a treat, because it very rare that people get to see him in a match. The man is one of the best workers in the business. So I see his point on that.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I think that Thiller has a point here. I'm a huge 'Taker fan, though I see his point. The guy is respected by every wrestling fan. He's been with wwe for over 20 years. Many know when he comes out it's a treat, because it very rare that people get to see him in a match. The man is one of the best workers in the business. So I see his point on that.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you completely misunderstood me. I'm not disrespecting what Undertaker has done in his time in the WWE. What I have a problem with, however, is him taking multiple months off every year and people still claiming he is the best face in the company. I understand he is older and that he has accomplished a lot but that doesn't give him the right to disappear for awhile and walk back into a title shot. I will agree that it is a treat to see him, but it shouldn't be like that. Cena, Trips, and Hardy get comparable reactions and they are actually around all year.

 

[Paradox]

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you completely misunderstood me. I'm not disrespecting what Undertaker has done in his time in the WWE. What I have a problem with, however, is him taking multiple months off every year and people still claiming he is the best face in the company. I understand he is older and that he has accomplished a lot but that doesn't give him the right to disappear for awhile and walk back into a title shot. I will agree that it is a treat to see him, but it shouldn't be like that. Cena, Trips, and Hardy get comparable reactions and they are actually around all year.

I'm agree with you, to a point. I think that you are right, people jump for 'Taker because they don't see him all the time, but. I think that he has earned the right to be able to take months off when he needs to for injury. We know that he's getting old, he has to take some time to heal up. He gets the those pops because he's one of the biggest stars that is in the wwe. And has been... Taker did the same thing Cena is doing now, ten years ago. He worked whenever and where ever. He's earned his time off.

 

[YoYoYumba]

I never said you couldn't voice your opinion. I'm just saying that a whiny, curse-laden, misspelled rant of a post won't get you too far.

I've already explained the reason for why I felt like voicing my opinion on Cena and why I hate him so much. I was in the mood to let out some anger and just voice my opinion.

I disagree completely. I want wrestling, not Skinimax or Saw.

Well I feel the violence, blood, sex etc gives more of an edge to the product as it makes people take more notice of the feuds. WWE has always been more to me than just what goes on in the ring. The funny backstage interviews, the backstage fights, the cursing on the mic, giving your opponent shit. All these things I feel really help engage the viewers and make them care more about the in ring action. It's fine to enjoy the wrestling but I feel all these outside factors I mentioned really help give feuds more of an edge and make it more interesting.

Go figure.

Your really obsessed with trying to question my intelligence rather than stick to the topic of the thread...just sad. How about trying to explain what you actually meant? Neway doesn't matter.... you are a smart ass as you said yourself on here

Yes there is. He has people like you hating on him for no reason, when he is playing a perfect face character. It is hard being perfect, and even harder when people rip on you for it.

No there isn't. He follows a script like everyone else and is doing his job like everyone else. There's others wrestlers who get hated on as well but that doesn't mean their job is more difficult. No-one expects you to be perfect either and I don't have the expectation of any of the wrestlers being perfect.

I understood what you meant the first time. My joke just went over your head.

Ok then, I'm glad you understood.

Yeah, just like Shawn always does the flying forearm, the reverse atomic drop, the kip-up, the flying elbow, and the Sweet Chin Music. And just like Trips always does the running knee, knee facebuster, the spinebuster, and the Pedigree. You're right, nothing alike at all.

Yep nothing at all alike cause unlike Cena's crap, their moves are actually good to watch and being the character's they are, most people just get pumped up when their about to do those moves. Neither Triple H or Micheals have matches where they get their ass kicked for just about all of it, only to make a superhero come back like Cena. If you think their so alike, then tell me why has Cena been described as extremely boring and predictable in the ring where as Triple H and Michaels have never had that sort of criticism directed at them.

And D-X round 89409843278590234875092345023597889430725 isn't the same old crap.

What the? I wasn't even mentioning anything about DX. For the record I am a fan of DX but their latest reunion has been pretty lame, although with the PG rating you can't really blame them...but that's for another topic. I was simply saying Cena's latest promo on raw was the same old crap...nothing at all to do with DX. I wasn't making any comparisions.

Then don't. Change the channel. It's not that hard. I change channels plenty of times every day.

Haha, what a lame response...simply saying to just change the channel.

No me gusta inglés. Español es más bueno y más interesante.

Once again.....just lame. Completely childish and immature to just be speaking a different language....and you were the one who was actually questioning my intelligence and saying I was rambling on and whinining. Now who looks like a fool

I don't know why you keep thinking you don't have the right to voice your opinion. You do. Just like I have the right to tell you the hundreds of reasons why you are wrong.

Thank you for acknowledging that I do have a right to voice my opinion. Your really just full of it if you think you've been telling me hundreds of reasons why you think I'm wrong. So far the only things you've been telling me is that Cena is great at selling merch and loved by lots of fans. Both of those topics I didn't even mention when I started voicing my opinion on here. I have simply started out voicing my opinion on why I hate Cena's character so much and you have clearly just gone on to talk about other topics rather than prove anything I've said was wrong.

Well, Undertaker only gets reactions because he's been around for 80 years and takes 9 months off every year, so he gets the "holy shit, he's still around and he's here!" pops when he is on TV. Triple H gets big pops because he's either in D-X or taking on the top heel in the company who attacks his family.

Undertaker has earnt alot of respect in the WWE and deserves to have time off. Just because he doesn't appear as often doesn't make him any less of a great wrestler and great entertainer. Triple H equally has earn't alot of respect from fans because of the many great matches and feuds his been involved in. He is probably the greatest heel in the history of the WWE and is an extremely popular face now.

 

[YoYoYumba]

The John Cena List: Part One



I was challenged by a poster named General Disarray to create my John Cena Hate List, so I am. This is part one of The John Cena List. In this part I will discuss the major reasons why I dislike him. In part two, I will discuss the minor reasons why I dislike him and I will also list the very few reasons I might like him. So, let’s get started!

*Remember; this is an opinionated post. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that my opinion is fact!*


Reasons I Dislike John Cena

The John Cena Move set:

If you have ever read any of my posts on my views of John Cena, then you have read me list the, “5 or 6 moves of doom,” as a major reason that I dislike John Cena. We all know what these moves are, but for those of you who are not familiar with them, I will list them once again, in order. 2 shoulder blocks, modified back body drop (idk if this is the official name for it, but I am calling it this), 5 knuckle shuffle, and the Attitude Adjustment. Also, if he misses the Attitude Adjustment then we usually have some transition wrestling for about a minute or two until he either hits the Attitude Adjustment or he locks in the STF.

I get attacked all of the time that it isn’t a wrestler’s move set that makes the wrestler good. I couldn’t agree with this statement more, however, I believe that it is a combination of all things that makes a wrestler good or even great, IMO. Of course, Cena marks will throw Hulk Hogan at me, as he is considered the greatest professional wrestler of all time and to say that he had a limited move set is an understatement. Hulk Hogan, though, was the greatest hype man/crowd controller of all time. His matches are not remembered for being wrestling clinics, but his matches are remembered for being wrestling spectacles. John Cena is nowhere near the level of entertainer that Hulk Hogan was and he probably never will be.

Back to Cena however. It really isn’t his moves that I have a major problem with because almost every wrestler has a set of signature moves that they will use at some point in a match, but it is the way in which he uses those moves. You can call a Cena match like you are the one that booked it. A typical Cena match goes like this: Cena will start off strong with some punches or kicks, he will then get his ass whipped for about 90% of the match, go into his signature moves of death, and win the match with his opponent taking little damage throughout the match. Now other wrestlers like Shawn Michaels might end the match almost the same way every time, however, their matches do not go the same way, same pace, or use the same type of heel/face psychology all the time. As far as in ring work goes, Cena is a one trick pony. Sure, I have been satisfied with Cena matches before, but those few Cena matches do not out number the many that I dislike or consider to be bad matches.

The John Cena Push:

When John Cena was first drafted to Raw, this really wasn’t a problem because we had Batista and HHH finishing up their feud. So Cena took a back seat to those two for about a month until Batista was drafted to Smack Down. When Batista left Raw, however, the flood gates were opened and Cena hell poured out into the wrestling audience.

Cena was made out to be the next greatest thing in professional wrestling since Steve Austin, but it didn’t take like Steve Austin did because Austin was built up over a period of time and we, the fans, ultimately made the decision on Austin. We, the fans, weren’t so lucky with Cena. Cena was ultimately shoved down our throats for a very long period of time. IMO he wasn’t proven enough to be the top star in the WWE and I think that is why he was received on Raw, at first, in such a bad light. Cena would be booed out of the building for a very long time and this was the top face in the WWE. Now if that isn’t the fans telling you something, I don’t what is. WWE, however, stayed the course and it seemed like the more we booed, the more Cena was shoved into the spotlight. Before long, he was dominating Raw, while still getting booed.

Fans were tired of seeing Cena, but the more we hated it, the more we got. WWE ultimately made a good decision with Cena by letting him go on a very lengthy title run. IMO, this won a lot of people over with Cena because he was actually having some pretty good feuds and matches while in this run. His title run did a lot in terms of making the WWE title prestigious again and it gave us a lot of new feuds with the Main Event on Raw, unlike we have now.

So why Cena really isn’t shoved on us anymore, however, your die hard wrestling fan remembers how easily he came up into the spotlight and it was literally a reaction of, “Who the fuck does he think he is?” You marks might say that Orton is pushed on us now, but I say that Orton was years in the making. He worked very hard, what with HHH burying him, working with The Undertaker, jobbing to Hulk Hogan, and working with DX to get where he is now. So I consider Orton proven to be a good main event star and it seemed like he was molded into carrying the WWE title. Cena was just pushed to the top too hard and too fast, IMO.

The John Cena Character:

A lot of people remember the Rapper John Cena from Smack Down, but when he got to Raw he became the uber babyface that we enjoy now. There really isn’t that much to say about John Cena’s character. At first, it wasn’t an issue. Lately, however, his character has become a bit boring and predictable.

He comes across a lot of times as a silly comic relief and then he tries to get serious on us by cutting a very enraged promo here and there. It really kills his character’s credibility to be so silly and then be so serious. Sometimes it is hard to figure out just what John Cena is supposed to be. I am just going to stick with the uber babyface who is predictable and stale with what he is going to do.

The John Cena Promo:

This one really isn’t a huge issue to me, but I do find his promos to be a bit stale or bland sometimes. I much rather prefer a serious Cena promo as opposed to a Cena trying to be funny, but ultimately coming across as stupid promo. When HHH and HBK try the funny promo, they catch hell from us, but no one bitches about when John Cena does it.

His serious promos are much better, however, they are very predictable. If I were Josh Matthews and asked him if his ass itched, he would spend the next 5 minutes yelling to everyone about how everybody got an ass itch from time to time and that you shouldn’t scratch it in public and if he get’s an ass itch at the PPV, it isn’t going to stop him from achieving his ultimate goal and blah blah blah.

The John Cena Conclusion:

IMO, John Cena is just all around bland, boring, stale, and predictable. It might be a matter of taste or style, but I just don’t find John Cena appealing at all. He is about as interesting as watching paint dry. He is the top face in the company, however, so there must be something good about him, right? When ever you find out what that is, please tell me.

BTW marks don’t come back with it’s a business and he makes the most money and he should be the top because of that. He isn’t making anyone in this forum money, is he? Then why should his ability to draw affect us in the least?

Thank you Undertaker's#1fan, this was a great post.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I've already explained the reason for why I felt like voicing my opinion on Cena and why I hate him so much. I was in the mood to let out some anger and just voice my opinion.



Well I feel the violence, blood, sex etc gives more of an edge to the product as it makes people take more notice of the feuds. WWE has always been more to me than just what goes on in the ring. The funny backstage interviews, the backstage fights, the cursing on the mic, giving your opponent shit. All these things I feel really help engage the viewers and make them care more about the in ring action. It's fine to enjoy the wrestling but I feel all these outside factors I mentioned really help give feuds more of an edge and make it more interesting.



Your really obsessed with trying to question my intelligence rather than stick to the topic of the thread...just sad. How about trying to explain what you actually meant? Neway doesn't matter.... you are a smart ass as you said yourself on here



No there isn't. He follows a script like everyone else and is doing his job like everyone else. There's others wrestlers who get hated on as well but that doesn't mean their job is more difficult. No-one expects you to be perfect either and I don't have the expectation of any of the wrestlers being perfect.



Ok then, I'm glad you understood.



Yep nothing at all alike cause unlike Cena's crap, their moves are actually good to watch and being the character's they are, most people just get pumped up when their about to do those moves. Neither Triple H or Micheals have matches where they get their ass kicked for just about all of it, only to make a superhero come back like Cena. If you think their so alike, then tell me why has Cena been described as extremely boring and predictable in the ring where as Triple H and Michaels have never had that sort of criticism directed at them.



What the? I wasn't even mentioning anything about DX. For the record I am a fan of DX but their latest reunion has been pretty lame, although with the PG rating you can't really blame them...but that's for another topic. I was simply saying Cena's latest promo on raw was the same old crap...nothing at all to do with DX. I wasn't making any comparisions.



Haha, what a lame response...simply saying to just change the channel.



Once again.....just lame. Completely childish and immature to just be speaking a different language....and you were the one who was actually questioning my intelligence and saying I was rambling on and whinining. Now who looks like a fool



Thank you for acknowledging that I do have a right to voice my opinion. Your really just full of it if you think you've been telling me hundreds of reasons why you think I'm wrong. So far the only things you've been telling me is that Cena is great at selling merch and loved by lots of fans. Both of those topics I didn't even mention when I started voicing my opinion on here. I have simply started out voicing my opinion on why I hate Cena's character so much and you have clearly just gone on to talk about other topics rather than prove anything I've said was wrong.



Undertaker has earnt alot of respect in the WWE and deserves to have time off. Just because he doesn't appear as often doesn't make him any less of a great wrestler and great entertainer. Triple H equally has earn't alot of respect from fans because of the many great matches and feuds his been involved in. He is probably the greatest heel in the history of the WWE and is an extremely popular face now.

1. Have you watched a HBK match? He does get his ass kicked most of the time part because that what is supposed to happen and part that he has some of the weakest offense I've ever seen but you can figure that out.

2. The Attitude Era is dead for the most part and will never come back. Although there were some great matches, it was all about the shock value and WWE will never bring that back.

 

[YoYoYumba]

1. Have you watched a HBK match? He does get his ass kicked most of the time part because that what is supposed to happen and part that he has some of the weakest offense I've ever seen but you can figure that out.

HBK has had some of the best matches in the history of the WWE and I don't feel his matches are that predictable. He does get his assed kicked in alot of his matches but the finishes to his matches seem alot less predictable than any of Cena's matches. The sweet chin music can come out of nowhere, which I feel is very good thing because it really creates a great expectation of what will happen in the match. Cena is not in Michaels league when it comes to in ring ability.

2. The Attitude Era is dead for the most part and will never come back. Although there were some great matches, it was all about the shock value and WWE will never bring that back.

Ok well I will agree that the attitude era will never come back and that it produced alot of great matches. I miss the attitude era and so do alot of other fans. I feel very fortunate to of been watching during the attitude era and not start watching the crap that is currently on at the moment. The current product is pure crap compared to the awesome story lines, great feuds and great characters that were in the WWE during the attitude era. One of the main things that the attitude era also had was the unpredictability about it. You just never knew what was going to happen before and that's one of the main issues I have with the product today. It's too predictable compared to the days of the attitude era.