The Dragon Ball Z Thread

They did explain it away. They explained as Goku being so confident that he dropped his guard because he thought he had Frieza beaten. They DB characters are not like Superman. They're not indestructible unless they use their ki to up their defense and at that point Goku's defenses were down. Remember what Whis said to Goku during training and what Vegeta said to Goku when he took over in the fight?

Yeah I know that was the reason for the sake of the film's plot... but I still wasn't keen on it. I'm sure characters have firmed far worse shots with their guard down. In Dragon Ball Goku was shot in the head by Bulma and firmed that.

But maybe all this time I have been seeing things differently. I suppose I'd always assumed that due to the characters training and power and whatnot their bodies would be able to tank stuff like that even if their guard was down.

If, before seeing the film, I was asked the question "Would a common ray gun go through God Goku if he had his guard down?" my answer would be HELL NO! As I;m sure a lot of people's answers would be :lmao: even if Goku was sleeping in his base form I would not have expected something like that to hurt him. But I guess not!
 
Yeah I know that was the reason for the sake of the film's plot... but I still wasn't keen on it. I'm sure characters have firmed far worse shots with their guard down. In Dragon Ball Goku was shot in the head by Bulma and firmed that.

But maybe all this time I have been seeing things differently. I suppose I'd always assumed that due to the characters training and power and whatnot their bodies would be able to tank stuff like that even if their guard was down.

If, before seeing the film, I was asked the question "Would a common ray gun go through God Goku if he had his guard down?" my answer would be HELL NO! As I;m sure a lot of people's answers would be :lmao: even if Goku was sleeping in his base form I would not have expected something like that to hurt him. But I guess not!

There are several examples throughout all of Dragon Ball where characters have been hurt by what seemed to be minor threats. For example: Yajirobi was able to cut off Great Ape Vegeta's tail with nothing but a sword. How did Yajirobi do this? He snuck up on Vegeta and caught him off gaurd. Piccolo Jr was able to shoot Goku through the chest in their tournament fight. Now you might be thinking that there's a difference between Piccolo and a ray gun and there is, however, Goku thought Piccolo was unconscious and Piccolo surprised him. Also, remember that Goku had just withstood Piccolo's giant energy explosion a few moments before. That shows that with their defenses raised, they can withstand a lot. In the Cell Games arc, remember when Goku, Gohan, and Krillin were fishing? Goku fell asleep and Krillin looked at him thinking that because he was in his SSJ form that his senses must be at their peak. So to test his theory, Krillin threw a rock at Goku expecting him to dodge it. Goku didn't dodge it, it hit him on the head and Goku screamed in pain because it hurt him because he was defenseless. The most prominent example, however, would be Krillin blasting Vegeta on Namek to make Vegeta stronger. Remember, Krillin actually said to Vegeta that he wasn't strong enough to hurt him. Vegeta told Krillin that he would lower his power level so that even he could do some damage.
 
DBZ Topic #21: Did Vegeta Reach SSJ2 Before Majin?

Hey DBZ fans; what's up? I Am Phenom back with another DBZ topic to discuss with you guys. The last few topics have been lists and I have a few more lists that we can discuss, but with this topic, I thought that we could have a good ole fashioned discussion. So without wasting any more time; was Vegeta a SSJ2 before he became Majin Vegeta?

It's a common fan theory that Vegeta was only able to reach the level of SSJ2 after becoming a Majin. Evidence used to back this up is that we had never seen Vegeta use the form until after he became Majin Vegeta. Also, he said that he allowed Babidi to possess him so that he could gain more power to be equal with Goku. IMO, however, Vegeta had already reached the form of SSJ2 and I'll explain why I think so. First we have to go back to before the World's Martial Arts Tournament when Gohan went to Capsule Corp to get his Great Saiyaman suit from Bulma. While there, Gohan ran into Vegeta. Vegeta told him that Gohan may have been stronger than he was when they fought against Cell, but now he was the strongest. Vegeta definitely knew of the power SSJ2 Gohan displayed. So Vegeta saying that leads me to believe that Vegeta had also attained the form of SSJ2. Next, we go to where Gohan transformed into SSJ2 at the WMAT. Instead of going into a jealous rage when Gohan transformed (like Vegeta always seems to do when someone displays more power than him or a level of power that he has not reached yet), Vegeta just calmly stated that Gohan was a lot more powerful in his battle with Cell. Next we go to Gohan's battle against Dabura. In the manga, I believe, it was estimated by Goku that Dabura's power level was around that of Cell's. Whether or not Goku was talking about Super Perfect Cell is not known, however, I'm assuming he was talking about Super Perfect Cell because it just wouldn't make sense for Dabura to be weaker than a villian that was killed 7 years prior. Especially with the hype and build that Dabura had been given. While Gohan was fighting Dabura, Vegeta states his anger in the way that Gohan was fighting and he stated that Dabura was toying with Gohan. He even told Goku to call Gohan down so that he could take over. It's not known for sure whether or not Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura or not. Some fans believe he wasn't because of the lack of electricity in his aura. Other fans, including myself, believe he was a SSJ2 because it just doesn't make sense for Gohan to be losing and not fighting at his full potential. After Dabura leaves to tell Babidi about Vegeta's evilness, Vegeta scolds Gohan, telling Gohan that he should've let him fight Dabura because he would've been able to kill Dabura. It's hard for me to imagine that Vegeta gained enough power to take out a fighter at the level of Super Perfect Cell in his normal SSJ form. Next, we get to the fight between Goku and Vegeta. Before they started fighting, Goku says he's going to skip the warm up and he transforms into a SSJ2 with ease. After Goku transforms, Vegeta says Goku was stronger than Gohan was against Cell and then he transforms with ease as well. What's significant about this is the ease with which Vegeta transformed into SSJ2. We've seen in DBZ that the first time characters achieve a new form, it takes some effort to transform into that form. Well Vegeta transformed as if he'd used the form before which leads me to believe that he had used the form before. Also, IDC how much power Babidi's magic gave Vegeta, it's not going to teach him how to transform into new SSJ forms. Finally, we get to when Vegeta was brought back by Baba to fight Buu. He was no longer a Majin, however, he still had the ability to transform into a SSJ2. He transformed into SSJ2 when he and Goku fought Buuhan before fusing. He transformed into SSJ2 when he and Goku fought Super Buu inside of Buu, and he transformed into SSJ2 when he fought Kid Buu to buy Goku some time to regain some energy. If it was Babidi who granted Vegeta this ability, wouldn't he lose the ability when Babidi's magic had faded?

It's my theory that Vegeta realized that his base form was weaker than Goku's and when he realized that Goku could go beyond SSJ in his fight against Yakon, Vegeta instantly knew that if Goku could aslo go SSJ2, then there was no way he could be stronger than Goku. If Goku's base is stronger than Vegeta's, then the SSJ multipliers are going to raise Goku's power higher than they would Vegeta's and that's why he allowed Babidi to possess him.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with me or am I way off base here? Let me know what your opinions are.
 
There are several examples throughout all of Dragon Ball where characters have been hurt by what seemed to be minor threats. For example: Yajirobi was able to cut off Great Ape Vegeta's tail with nothing but a sword. How did Yajirobi do this? He snuck up on Vegeta and caught him off gaurd. Piccolo Jr was able to shoot Goku through the chest in their tournament fight. Now you might be thinking that there's a difference between Piccolo and a ray gun and there is, however, Goku thought Piccolo was unconscious and Piccolo surprised him. Also, remember that Goku had just withstood Piccolo's giant energy explosion a few moments before. That shows that with their defenses raised, they can withstand a lot. In the Cell Games arc, remember when Goku, Gohan, and Krillin were fishing? Goku fell asleep and Krillin looked at him thinking that because he was in his SSJ form that his senses must be at their peak. So to test his theory, Krillin threw a rock at Goku expecting him to dodge it. Goku didn't dodge it, it hit him on the head and Goku screamed in pain because it hurt him because he was defenseless. The most prominent example, however, would be Krillin blasting Vegeta on Namek to make Vegeta stronger. Remember, Krillin actually said to Vegeta that he wasn't strong enough to hurt him. Vegeta told Krillin that he would lower his power level so that even he could do some damage.

Your post somewhat puts me at ease haha because I can now accept that element more in the film.

For Yajirobe, he was more powerful than your standard earthling so it made sense for him to be strong enough to be able to cut off the tail. I had no problems with that. I don't know if his sword had special properties? I haven't encountered him or Piccolo Jr. in the DB manga yet. The Krillin and Vegeta thing though is a great example. But Vegeta had to intentionally lower it right?

What I mean is, if Krillin had took him completely by surprise, could he have hurt him then? I guess so.

I'm rewatching Kai at the moment and damn I really think DBZ's storyline is a lot better than people give it credit for. Akira may have made it up as he went along but the writing is still great in my view.
 
DBZ Topic #22: When Did You Realize You Were A Huge Fan(Obsessed)?

Hey guys, what's going on? I Am Phenom back bringing you another DBZ topic for discussion. I know that it's been awhile, but I feel like now is just as good a time as any to start back up. So with this topic, I want to discuss with you guys when did you first realize that you were becoming a huge fan of, or in my case obsessed with DBZ? Let's get into it.

When I first realized that I was becoming a huge fan of DBZ was during the Freeza Saga when Freeza shot Vegeta through the chest and Vegeta, laying there dying, with tears in his eyes, begged Goku to defeat Freeza. That scene made me realize just how invested that I had became in the story and characters of DBZ. While Vegeta was explaining to Goku how Freeza killed his father and all the other Saiyans and how Freeza made Vegeta the ruthless warrior he was, I was crying my eyes out. When the episode was finally over, it was then that I realized that I had been crying over a damn cartoon character. My mother even quipped, "You like that show that much", as I sit in the living room crying over that scene. It was then I realized that yes, I loved DBZ.

What about you guys? Was there a specific moment that you realized that you loved DBZ? Tell me your stories.
 
Its really hard to pinpoint for me. I first discovered DBZ while grounded. With nothing to do I was flipping through channels. One channel I flipped too, I witness a bunch of random people fighting a big tall bald guy and another short spiky hair guy. I digged the fighting but didn't care for much else. I kept watching the next few episodes because I just wanted to see the reaction of the characters when their hero returned. fast forward 40 odd episodes and I'm watching Goku battle it out with Frieza on my couch. I was a fan but I wouldn't really call myself obsessed with the show at that point.

It wasn't until I witness Goku transform into a Super Saiyan for the first time that I just immediately went from a casual fan to a hardcore fan. That shit changed my life:p It was at that point I realized how big DBZ was getting. It was becoming a cult following, it blew up into a global phenomenon and was even a phenomenon in our local school yard. That single moment was the talk of the school yard for days. It was during that moment and following days that I truly evolved from casual fan to hardcore lifer.

Speaking of which! I wanted to share this video I found of a reanimated version of the transformation of Goku against Frieza. Take a look. I think it looks great and kind of reminds me of a video game cutscene..
[YOUTUBE]2mtQcM5ByxQ[/YOUTUBE]

I don't care what anyone says. Single greatest moment in television history!
 
DBZ Topic #23: How Strong Could Gohan Have Become?

How goes it DBZ fans? I Am Phenom here to bring you yet another Dragon Ball topic for us to discuss and I think everyone will have an opinion about this topic. It’s one of the most widely speculated what if scenarios among DBZ fans today. So I ask; How strong could Gohan have become if he continued to train after the Cell Games?

Now we all know how this story goes. Gohan was able to unlock his hidden power against Cell and become the first SSJ 2. He was so powerful that he was able to effortlessly take out Cell and the Cell Jrs. That is, until Cell came back as Super Perfect Cell and was at least very very close to Gohan’s power. Anyways, after Gohan kills Cell and the Earth enters into a long period of peace, Gohan focuses on his schooling and stops training and practicing his martial arts. So when Majin Buu appears 7 years later, Gohan is no longer the strongest Z Fighter. As a matter of fact, he was weaker than what he was against Cell. But what if Gohan didn’t focus on his schooling but continued to train during the 7 year gap?

Considering how much stronger Gohan was than the other Z Fighters during the Cell Games; I think it’s easy to say that if Gohan had have continued to train during that 7 year gap, he would’ve easily been more powerful than Vegeta, Goku, and probably even Fat Buu. Remember, as a SSJ 2 after the 7 year gap, Gohan was around half as strong as Fat Buu; if we’re to take that gauge on Buu’s pod after Gohan’s energy was injected as accurate that is. So I would imagine Teen Gohan at SSJ 2 being at least 2/3s as strong as Fat Buu. So if he continued to train, I think he would’ve easily surpassed Buu and since he was already very much stronger than the other Z Fighters, I don’t think they would have been able to catch up. Also, let’s not forget that there would be a chance that Gohan could have unlocked SSJ 3 during this time period as well. SSJ 3 is unlocked through intense training and focus. Considering that he was already a SSJ 2 when the 7 year time period began and considering that Goku was able to unlock both SSJ 2 and SSJ 3 during the 7 year time period; I think that Gohan would have eventually gotten to SSJ 3 during the 7 year time period. If I had to put Gohan’s power into perspective and compare it with someone else to judge how strong he would’ve been if he had trained for the 7 year time gap; I think that Gohan would’ve ranked around Super Buu in terms of power.

What do you guys think? How strong do you think Gohan would have become? Am I way off base with my estimation or do you think Gohan would’ve been even stronger? Let me know your opinions.
 
This is gonna be fun since Gohan is my favorite character. There is 1 thing I have to state though there is 0 chance that you can become super Saiyan 3 unless you have a dead body like goku had. That's why vegeta hasn't reached that level yet and he trains twice as hard as goku for all these years also I believe there is a certain trick to it. Any way to the subject at hand if Gohan trained for those 7 years I believe gohan would have definitely been stronger than buu and there would be no majin vegeta because only reason vegeta turned majin was because he was angry that gohan was so weak. There is also a small chance that gohan could have unlocked his mystic powers at this time.
 
Gohans power is always difficult to gauge for the simple reason that out of all the Z fighters, his power fluctuates up and down all the time. He's either incredibly weak or unnaturally strong. I've always wondered why that was. Is it because he's just naturally gifted in terms of strength and untapped potential? Or is it because a Saiyan/Human hybrid has higher potential than just being a full blooded Human or Saiyan? What do you guys think? I don't know...

Anyway. Had Gohan trained for that 7 year time gap then its obvious he would have either maintained his strength or gotten stronger. How much stronger? Well, that's why we're here. I firmly believe that he would NOT have been able to achieve Super Saiyan 3. It took Goku years to attain that form and even then while fighting Majin Buu, he still hadn't fully mastered it. He even said to Buu that he hadn't even much occasion to practice it. Meaning the form must have still be relatively new to Goku. Plus you also have to remember that Goku was dead. Its far easier for him to do training and maintain these Super Saiyan forms in a dead body. Even then it still took him years.

While Gohan could have gotten stronger, people seem to forget that on his own, he doesn't really do training, or at least not that well. Every time we see Gohan training, its usually with somebody, I.E Goku, Piccolo, Krillen or Supreme Kai. I don't think he's as effective by himself. It usually takes training with somebody as strong or stronger to really push him. Gohan has only ever gotten stronger because of the influence of somebody else.

I definitely think he would have improved but even if he did train, he still doesn't have the same drive as Goku or even Vegeta, especially in a time of peace. That alone would have held him back. So therefore I say he could have been able to keep up with Vegeta but he wouldn't have passed Goku or even Fat Buu. At least this is what I think. Gohan has always had the potential to pass everybody but it's his attitude towards fighting that ultimately holds him back. If he were more like Goku then there is no doubt in my mind Gohan would surpass his father. Its Gohans own fault hes become as weak as he is. He was given the ultimate power in which he arguably passed SSJ3. What did he do with it? Absolutely nothing. And that is his own damn fault.
 
While I appreciate your opinions on the matter, I think that you're both dead wrong on the matter of Gohan being able to obtain SSJ3. Trunks and Goten did it as Gotenks and they did it in a matter of weeks. You have to look at what you have. You'd have Gohan, already at SSJ2 at the start of the 7 year gap. He already knew the trick on how to control SSJ forms from his training with Goku, so he'd apply the same technique to SSJ2 and minimize the stress of that form. After he does that, he has nowhere to go but even higher. All SSJ3 really is, is a form that allows the user to use 100% of their ki, hence why the form is so hard to maintain. After Gohan completely mastered SSJ2, he would be able to take that extra energy that he's not wasting and push it higher. Thus transforming him into a SSJ3.

Also, I have an alternate theory as to why Vegeta never achieved that form. Just like with USSJ, Vegeta seen SSJ3 in action and realized its flaws. Thus leading him to stick with the lower forms that could better be controlled. We do know that SSJ3 is not unlocked by rage and we also know that SSJ2 can surpass SSJ3 if the user can raise their power high enough. We know these things from Vegeta's rage boost against Beerus. Also, Goozeking, Vegeta would've still become Majin. He did so not because of Gohan but to catch Goku. Gohan's performance was just the excuse he used.
 
Gohan should have been the most powerful fighter in the universe. Everyone except Gohan failed at beating Cell.

Nobody should have been able to stop him.

Then you get the awesome heel turn and you have Goku vs. Gohan. If you want to ruin DBZ by continuing it after Gohan defeats Cell than why not kill Goku at the end of it?
 
Had Gohan continued to train at the level he, Goku and Vegeta had managed during the run up to the Cell Games, it would be safe to say that he would have remained far stronger than Vegeta and made mincemeat out of Majin Dabura. Beyond that supposition, we are into comparisons and guessing - how strong was SSJ3? What effects would SSJ3 have on a live body? What kind of level were the various Buus at?

My thoughts are that even if Gohan had trained like Vegeta post-Cell, he would not have achieved the kind of power he gained from Elder Kai's spell. If such Buu-busting Mystic power was achieveable through training then why not just put him in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber again?
 
Барбоса;5342285 said:
Had Gohan continued to train at the level he, Goku and Vegeta had managed during the run up to the Cell Games, it would be safe to say that he would have remained far stronger than Vegeta and made mincemeat out of Majin Dabura. Beyond that supposition, we are into comparisons and guessing - how strong was SSJ3? What effects would SSJ3 have on a live body? What kind of level were the various Buus at?

My thoughts are that even if Gohan had trained like Vegeta post-Cell, he would not have achieved the kind of power he gained from Elder Kai's spell. If such Buu-busting Mystic power was achieveable through training then why not just put him in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber again?

I may be mistaken but I think they explained this. I can't remember the exact reason but some I'm thinking of are Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo were using it at the time Goku found out Gohan was still alive...then it got destroyed during Gotenks vs Super Buu and then everyone thought Gohan was dead anyway until after he got the power up from Elder Kai.

As for the question I mostly agree. Gohan would have at the very leasr maintained his power but it probably would have increased a bunch. Maybe not enough to beat Super Buu (post absortions) without the potential unlock but also I can see how the saga wouldn't have gone that far if Gohan had stayed training. Buu wouldn't even have been released IMO
 
While I appreciate your opinions on the matter, I think that you're both dead wrong on the matter of Gohan being able to obtain SSJ3. Trunks and Goten did it as Gotenks and they did it in a matter of weeks.

They did it as Gotenks. The fusion ability gives them an significant boost in power. Plus they had Goku show them the technique first to give them some sort of a baseline. Gohan didn't even know the form even existed. How can you prepare and train for something that you don't even know exists?

You have to look at what you have. You'd have Gohan, already at SSJ2 at the start of the 7 year gap. He already knew the trick on how to control SSJ forms from his training with Goku, so he'd apply the same technique to SSJ2 and minimize the stress of that form. After he does that, he has nowhere to go but even higher. All SSJ3 really is, is a form that allows the user to use 100% of their ki, hence why the form is so hard to maintain. After Gohan completely mastered SSJ2, he would be able to take that extra energy that he's not wasting and push it higher. Thus transforming him into a SSJ3.

You make it sound like Gohan is a master at all this. He's really not. As I said in my previous post, he needs somebody there to really push him above and beyond. How do you think he even became a Super Saiyan in the first place? Goku. Goku even knew about Gohans power even before Gohan did. Everybody has a much better understanding about Gohan's power other than the man himself. If He would have trained by himself the entire time he wouldn't have gotten significantly stronger because he kind of sucks training by himself. Every time he's gotten any substantial kind of a power boost, it was due to the influence of somebody else. Gohan doesn't get powerful all on his own. Gohan gets powerful because, quite honestly, other people have to hold his hand.

Also, I have an alternate theory as to why Vegeta never achieved that form. Just like with USSJ, Vegeta seen SSJ3 in action and realized its flaws. Thus leading him to stick with the lower forms that could better be controlled.

Post Majin Buu saga, yes. I can understand this because the SSJ3 form is very flawed. Hell, after the events of resurrection F, he doesn't even need the form anymore. Pre-Buu Saga is different. Not doubt Vegeta is the strive for greater heights kind of guy.

But I think the reason that Goku was able to even achieve the form in the first place were due to a set amount of circumstances. Number one, he was dead. Being dead helps put a lot less strain on your body making transforming and staying transformed a lot easier. Two; he was surrounded by many martial art masters and strong people. Meaning he could fed off their knowledge and skills to help improve his own. Three; He most likely had access to better training because of where he was due to the people and the place he was in. These could all be contributing factors to why Goku was able to attain the form and Vegeta couldn't.
 
They did it as Gotenks. The fusion ability gives them an significant boost in power. Plus they had Goku show them the technique first to give them some sort of a baseline. Gohan didn't even know the form even existed. How can you prepare and train for something that you don't even know exists?

Still though, they did it in ONE WEEKS TIME. I just recently bought all of the DBZ seasons on blu ray and re watched the Buu Saga. They had around 30 minutes inside the Time Chamber before Piccolo brought Buu in. Giving them 7.5 days. Before they went in, they had only fused successfully twice and their highest form as Gotenks was SSJ. Now I know fusion gives them a hell of a lot of power but still, mastering SSJ3 in that time period seem very far fetched.

You make it sound like Gohan is a master at all this. He's really not. As I said in my previous post, he needs somebody there to really push him above and beyond. How do you think he even became a Super Saiyan in the first place? Goku. Goku even knew about Gohans power even before Gohan did. Everybody has a much better understanding about Gohan's power other than the man himself. If He would have trained by himself the entire time he wouldn't have gotten significantly stronger because he kind of sucks training by himself. Every time he's gotten any substantial kind of a power boost, it was due to the influence of somebody else. Gohan doesn't get powerful all on his own. Gohan gets powerful because, quite honestly, other people have to hold his hand.

Sure, Gohan pre Cell Games needed someone to hold his hand, however, post Cell Games, Gohan was a master. He trained Goten, in Yo Son Goku and His Friends Return Gohan coached Goten and Trunks in their fight against Abo and Cado, and in Battle of Gods he demenstrated his skill to everyone by blocking bullets. In my opinion, post-Cell Games, Gohan is one of the most skilled martial artists in all of Dragon Ball.

Post Majin Buu saga, yes. I can understand this because the SSJ3 form is very flawed. Hell, after the events of resurrection F, he doesn't even need the form anymore. Pre-Buu Saga is different. Not doubt Vegeta is the strive for greater heights kind of guy.

As you said for Gohan, Vegeta didn't know the form existed. So like Gohan, he would've had to stumble upon the form accidentally while training if he was to achieve it. He, however, hadn't reached SSJ2 by the start of the 7 year time period. So he would've spent a significant amount of time trying to reach that form.

But I think the reason that Goku was able to even achieve the form in the first place were due to a set amount of circumstances. Number one, he was dead. Being dead helps put a lot less strain on your body making transforming and staying transformed a lot easier. Two; he was surrounded by many martial art masters and strong people. Meaning he could fed off their knowledge and skills to help improve his own. Three; He most likely had access to better training because of where he was due to the people and the place he was in. These could all be contributing factors to why Goku was able to attain the form and Vegeta couldn't.

You're probably right about how Goku was able to achieve SSJ3.
 
Still though, they did it in ONE WEEKS TIME. I just recently bought all of the DBZ seasons on blu ray and re watched the Buu Saga. They had around 30 minutes inside the Time Chamber before Piccolo brought Buu in. Giving them 7.5 days. Before they went in, they had only fused successfully twice and their highest form as Gotenks was SSJ. Now I know fusion gives them a hell of a lot of power but still, mastering SSJ3 in that time period seem very far fetched.

It is far fetched;For an individual. It just shows how powerful the fusion technique really is. The whole mastering in a week is where I find it far more far fetched. But that I just chalk up as Toriyama.

Sure, Gohan pre Cell Games needed someone to hold his hand, however, post Cell Games, Gohan was a master. He trained Goten, in Yo Son Goku and His Friends Return Gohan coached Goten and Trunks in their fight against Abo and Cado, and in Battle of Gods he demenstrated his skill to everyone by blocking bullets. In my opinion, post-Cell Games, Gohan is one of the most skilled martial artists in all of Dragon Ball.

Ehh. I wouldn't call him a master by any means. He was exceptionally skillful but he still couldn't fully tap into his hidden power. During his training with Goten in preparation for the World Martial Arts Tournament, he wasn't so much training to get stronger, he was more or less training to get back into fighting shape. Probably in order not to embarrass himself in front of everyone.

The whole bullet blocking thing is absurd and quite honestly a weak argument. Raditz could stop a bullet at the start of Z. So Gohan blocking a few rounds comes as no shock to me. Any of the Z fighters could do something like that with ease. Come on man, I expect better from you :p

Gohan is an exceptionally talent person with great strength. But its evident throughout the series that Gohan can't really do anything on his own. He can't excel to new heights without being guided by someone else. He doesn't grow on his own like any of the other Z fighters do. I've pointed out many examples. Piccolo, Krillen, Guru, Goku, Supreme and elder Kai. This is how Gohan evolves. I can't remember a single time Gohan grew in power on his own without some kind of outside influence. This is why I firmly stick to my belief that one his own, Gohan would have gotten stronger but not to the level of a Super Saiyan 3.

As you said for Gohan, Vegeta didn't know the form existed. So like Gohan, he would've had to stumble upon the form accidentally while training if he was to achieve it. He, however, hadn't reached SSJ2 by the start of the 7 year time period. So he would've spent a significant amount of time trying to reach that form.

There is really no proof one way or another to say if Vegeta was a SSJ2 by the time of the Tournament. People like to say he first gained that power because of the help of babidi. Its just all speculation. I personally believe he was definitely above Gohan seeing how he said he had trained for the past 7 years straight in order to pass Gohan. Gohan hardly trained at all. In fact, he got weaker. Plus Vegeta trains far more intensely than Gohan. If Vegeta didn't reach that form by then, how could have Gohan?
 
There is really no proof one way or another to say if Vegeta was a SSJ2 by the time of the Tournament. People like to say he first gained that power because of the help of babidi. Its just all speculation. I personally believe he was definitely above Gohan seeing how he said he had trained for the past 7 years straight in order to pass Gohan. Gohan hardly trained at all. In fact, he got weaker. Plus Vegeta trains far more intensely than Gohan. If Vegeta didn't reach that form by then, how could have Gohan?

Vegeta had definitely reached SSJ2 by the time of the World Tournament. I've already made a post on this. Babidi increased Vegeta's base power, which made his power as a SSJ much greater. The ease with which he transformed into a SSJ2 also shows that he had some experience with that form. My argument though, is that Vegeta would've had to spend a great deal of time in the 7 year gap to get to SSJ2 where as Gohan already had it available. So if he Gohan had have continued to train, he could've focused on just going higher than SSJ2.
 
Vegeta was definitely super Saiyan 2 by the time the tournament came around he even said how he trained for 7 years just to get stronger than gohan. Btw I don't know if we are allowed to talk about dragon ball z super but I am just saying as a gohan fan I am enormously disappointed. Gohan didn't train for 7 years after cell and was still able to turn ss2 and maintain it but in super gohan doesn't train for 6 months and he can barely turn super Saiyan. Worst of all it looks like they gave up on gohan's rage mode and just made him a scared little guy who can barely do anything useful.... Oh well I guess it's time to officially give up on gohan.
 
DBZ Topic #24: Top 5 Emotional Moments In Dragon Ball History

Hey, what's up DBZ fans? I'm back to bring you guys another topic for discussion. I know that these have been few and far between, but you can expect a lot more because I'm on vacation for Xmas. Anyways, with this topic, I'm going to list my top 5 emotional moments throughout the entire Dragon Ball Series.

#5: Goku's First Death

I remember watching this one when I was a kid. Right as Raditz was about to kill Gohan, Goku snuck up behind him and put him in a full nelson and held him long enough for Piccolo to charge up his ultimate attack, The Special Beam Cannon, and kill the both of them with it. I remember thinking, "Why didn't Goku just move at the last second or something"? What made this moment so emotional was the fact that we had just started the DBZ story and the main character was already dead. This moment really tugs at the heart strings because as Goku lay there dying, Krillin was holding his hand begging him to be alright and Goku was explaining to Krillin that he wasn't going to make it this time. Some powerful stuff right there. That is until Piccolo ruined the whole damn moment when he explained to a dying Raditz that Goku's friends would wish him back with the Dragon Balls. Kind of made the whole thing seem inconsequential and that's something that DBZ always has to contend with.

#4: Piccolo Sacrifices Himself

This was the last thing one would expect from someone like Piccolo at that point in time. Sure, now Piccolo is one of the most pure hearted and righteous of the good guys, but back then, he was still in sort of a transitional period between wanting to dominate the world or be good. So after Gohan kicks Nappa into a mountain like a badass; Nappa is understandably POed. Nappa fires a huge blast at Gohan to, as the Ocean dub put it, send him into the next dimension, but what happens? Piccolo jumps in front of the blast and takes it like man to save Gohan. I still say Piccolo had enough time to grab Gohan and move, but what can you do? Anyways, its after Piccolo has been blasted to hell and gone that makes this moment so emotional. As Piccolo lay there dying, he explains to Gohan that he's never cared about anyone until Gohan came along and that Gohan was the first one to treat him like a person instead of a monster and that Gohan is his only true friend. This moment is also significant because when Piccolo died, Kami died as well. Meaning that there were no Dragon Balls anymore to wish them back. At the time, this was a huge deal.

#3: Vegeta's Final Atonement

Now we're getting to the good stuff. After Vegeta has once again screwed over the entire planet with his selfishness letting Majin Buu be released just so he could fight Goku, Vegeta has a realization. He's not this cold hearted evil warrior that he thought himself to be. He actually does care about the Earth, his family, and even that fool Kakarot. So Vegeta, in an effort to stop Majin Buu, tries to take him on one on one. There's just one problem; he's no match for Buu. Every thing he throws at Buu, Buu can regenerate from. So Vegeta has another realization; he has to destroy every last bit of Buu at once so he can't regenerate. Sounds good on paper, but how is he going to accomplish this? Why blowing himself up of course. So as Vegeta prepares to sacrifice himself to stop Buu, he grabs his young son Trunks and hugs him and tells him to take care of his mother. After that, in true Vegeta fashion, he knocks out Trunks and Goten. When Piccolo approaches to take the boys to safety, Vegeta asks him if he'll be able to see Kakarot in the other world. Piccolo explains to Vegeta that because Goku spent his entire life in the service of good, he was allowed to keep his body and adventure in the Other World. This would not be the case for Vegeta. Since Vegeta had done so many horrible things in his life, he would not be given the same reward. Even knowing this, Vegeta still blew himself up in a giant explosion to try and defeat Majin Buu. This was the moment that Vegeta truly became one of the good guys. Too bad it didn't work though.

#2: Goku Finds Krillin Dead

We have to go all the way back to Dragon Ball for this one. After the 22nd World's Martial Arts Tournament, Goku and his usual friends of Roshi, Bulma, Yamacha, Puar, Oolong, Launch, and Krillin; along with new friends Tien and Chiaotzu all decide to go out and eat to celebrate another successful tournament. Goku realizes that he has left some of his belongings behind; so Krillin goes to get them. Bad move, as this is when Krillin is killed by having his neck snapped by a kick from the monster Tambourine. While waiting for Krillin to return before he starts to eat at the restaurant; Goku senses that something is very wrong. Goku runs back to the arena only to find Krillin dead and no sign of the thing that killed him. This was the first time in Dragon Ball that one of the main group died and this is arguably when the series started playing with higher stakes and showing the audience that it could be serious as well as fun. Goku's anguish at his friend's death was very visible and it really made Tambourine and King Piccolo out to be the worst villians that the series had seen thus far.

#1: Freeza Kills Vegeta

At this point in DBZ, Vegeta was still very much a villian as he was plotting to destroy the others after they helped him kill Freeza. Unfortunately for Vegeta, however, he has a big mouth. After Freeza had given him a good trouncing and was about to deliver the death blow, Goku showed up on the battle field and quickly showed Freeza that he wasn't one to be messed with. Of course, Vegeta being who he is, took the opprotunity after Goku had blocked all of Freeza's energy attacks with one hand to explain to Freeza, AGAIN, that he wasn't dealing with an ordinary Saiyan anymore. That Goku was indeed a Super Saiyan. Unfortunately, Vegeta went to the well one to many times with this one because Freeza was tired of hearing about the SSJ. So Freeza shot Vegeta through the chest with an energy blast. What makes this scene so emotional, though, is what happened after Vegeta's fate was sealed. As Vegeta lay there dying, he explained to Goku that it was Freeza that destroyed their home world. He explained that he never had the chance to be anything but evil because Freeza enslaved him and made him do whatever Freeza ordered. He was crying and everything. As he took his final breath, he begged Goku to kill Freeza. I was 11 years old when I first watched this moment and like Vegeta, I too was crying. This moment remains the only time in the entire Dragon Ball series that I got emotional and that's why it's my number one.

What do you guys think? Is my list ok? I'd love to see some of your lists. Let me know your opinions.
 
I find it very hard to get emotionally invested in the DB franchise. Especially when it comes to character deaths. Not that certain character deaths dont have any emotion. My main reason is simple; Dragonballs. Dragonballs make death in the series completely inconsequential. How can I get emotionally invested if I know that these characters are just going to come back after a few episodes? Like even When Goku died or the majority of the Z fighters did at the hand of Nappa, they were still around. Its like, you're dead but still around...awesome?? Its as I said. How can I get emotionally invested when in the back of my mind....dragonballs. So for that very reason I can't come up with a list. Sure moments like Goku's sacrifice, Vegeta's death on Namek and his final atonement are all great tear jerking moments that make me say "damn, that was a great scene". Nothing that makes me doubt that this certain character won't come back at some point though.

So I'll do my list a bit differently. I don't have 5 but I do have 4 moments that stick out in my head almost immediately.

1. Krillin's death/ Goku's transformation into a Super Saiyan.
This doesn't have so much to do with Krillin's death as it does with Goku and his transformation into a Super Saiyan. The emotion of this scene was Goku's unleashed rage and anger towards Freeza. His transformation perfectly captures a totally different side to Goku that we have never seen before. Both the Funi dub and the Kai dub manage to showcase the emotionally rage that Goku was feeling after just witnessing his best friends death right before his eyes. An inner rage brought forth in a golden shower. A hardened warrior filled with a vengeful wrath with enough resolve to not just simply beat Freeza, but kill him. In this scene and the fight to follow I could feel Goku's pain and struggle and in the end he opted not to kill Freeza. The being who had brought such heinous and unspeakable suffering to him and his comrades. This just proves that no amount of rage and suffering can break Goku. In the end his nobility will trump desire for sinister malevolence on others.

2. Gohan witnessing his friends being brutalized during the Cell Games.
This one is similar to my first pick. its that feeling of helplessness and the inability to rationalize your emotions to make a decision on whats your best option. The struggle of knowing what needs to be done and the resistance of your pacifistic nature. Being torn on what to do while watching your friends and family being victimized is traumatic. Knowing you should help but not being sure if you have the power or will to make it happen is a wrenching tug at the heart. I can only imagine the suffering Gohan was going through. Standing there, frozen in shock, unable to will himself to lend any sort of aid. It must have been horrifying for him. Pleaing and begging to Cell to make it stop but to no avail. Then the ultimate blow with the end of Android 16. Finally unleashing a dormant rage which led to Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation. The tears he sheds at the end of the episode resonate with me and remain one of my favorite emotionally charged scenes.

3. Vegeta's pride. This goes back to when Vegeta first let himself be controlled by Babidi's magic. There are a few scenes where Vegeta gives some exceptional lines of dialogue.

"Answer me, Vegeta! Do you let yourself be a slave!"

"Tell me, is it slavery when you get what you want?!?!"


Or

"Who are you people? Can't you see the Universe matters more than your meaningless squabble?"

"Meaningless huh?? WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF MEANINGLESS!?"

"Spend most of your life ruled by another. Watch your race dwindle to a handful and then, tell me what has more meaning than your own strength."

"I have in me the blood of a Saiyan prince and he his nothing but a joke. And Yet I have had to watch him surpass me in strength; My destiny, thrown to the wayside. Hes even saved my life as though I were a helpless child."

"He has stolen my honor...and his debts, must be paid!"

Or this one

Babidi: (about Supreme Kai) You can't afford to let him live, Vegeta. Kill him, Vegeta! Kill him!
Vegeta: I refuse.
Babidi: What!?
Dabura: Huh!?
Vegeta: Your business with the Kai...it means nothing to me! Kakarot is my only objective.
Vegeta: (to Babidi) No! Get out of my head! I already told you! I will not be distracted from this anymore! I won't! It will take more than head games to stop me! You may have invaded my mind and my body, but there's one thing a Saiyan always keeps...his pride!!!

Then this one.

"What clown!? Are you feeling angry? Humiliated is that it? Fool! You don't know what humiliation is! Don't worry. I will teach you its bitter taste just as you have taught me; Me, a warrior elite. at my fingertips had the power to destroy entire worlds! I am a Saiyan of royal blood, the last of my kind and on my shoulders rests the glory of an extinct warrior race. Whole civilizations once trembled at the sound of my name. But you didn't, did you Kakarot? And at your hands, your common hands, my honor and my pride, the foundations on which I always stood, crumble at my feet. It was at your hands that I suffered my first great humiliation. Toppled by a piece of low level trash. It is time to take back what is mine. I will not live my life as your second. That time is over. Every breath you take is an insult to my honor. But no more Kakarot. By my hands you will be cut down inch by inch. The way you have cut down my pride!"

Vegeta has the best quotes....lol.....

This was the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta coming full circle. There was so much tension in these few moments. You could feel something greater between the two than just a fight to see who is stronger. For Vegeta is was much, much more. His hate, bitterness and resentment towards Goku had reach its tipping point and he decided he was done waiting. Vegeta took it upon himself to do battle with Goku despite everything else that was going on. It really brings Vegeta's character to the forefront of things. These few speeches and scenes really show that the Goku/Vegeta rivalry run deep. I always love going back and re-watching these scenes because of how great they are. Hats off to Chris Sabat too. He really nailed those lines and really sold Vegeta's inner turmoil and brought it to life. These moments and the ones leading up to Vegeta's death and eventual atonement just validate how far his character as come throughout the series.

4. The ending of Dragon ball Z. Its not so much the ending of the show that brings a tear to my eye. It was the realization that the show had come to an end. Finally, after the last 5 or so years of growing up with this show and its great characters; the journey had reached its end. Letting that sink in was a difficult pill to swallow because I wanted more. I didn't want it to end. Of course it didn't as we got GT later*Which still has the overall better ending than Z by a mile! I'll stand by that statement!* and a decade later Dragonball Super. So yeah. The fact that the show came an end was saddening and for me, very emotionally.
 
I don't have 5 moments and I can't really list them in importance but I will tell you the only times that brought me to tears.

1) Master Roshi blast a kamehameha at the moon. It was the world martial arts tournament finals and goku had turned into a giant ape threating to kill everyone at his past. At the time everyone thought he blasted it at goku and that he was dead.
2) Piccolo saves gohan from Napa/ piccolo speech about gohan being the son he never had.
3) frieza kills vegeta/ vegeta speech about how frieza destroyed his race
 
DBZ Topic #25: Opinion of Dragon Ball Super

Hey Dragon Ball fans. I Am Phenom here and I'm bringing us yet another topic for us to discuss on the greatest Shonen Jump Anime/Manga series of all the times, Dragon Ball. With today's topic I want to discuss, for those of you that have seen it, everyone's opinion of Dragon Ball Super.

When Battle of the Gods was first announced, I was ecstatic. Finally, we were going to get some new Dragon Ball content and from Toriyama himself no less. BOG didn't disappoint either. It was an excellent DBZ feature. IMO, it was the best of all the DBZ features. Then, it was announced that we were going to get yet another DBZ feature to go along with BOG. Again, I was ecstatic. Resurrection F was another spectacular DBZ feature. I mean, it brought back the most iconic villain of the series and it had some of the best action that we've ever seen from DBZ. Then, as if things weren't already good enough for Dragon Ball fans, it was announced that we were going to get a new series called Dragon Ball Super. I thought I was living in a dream world. I mean, we were getting new Dragon Ball content out the ass. When I seen the first episode of Super, I was very happy. It was bringing back adventure and humor that was established early on in the Dragon Ball story. Not only that, but it was making what happened in the two newest features apart of the actual canon of Dragon Ball. Then we got to episode 5 and the animation problems. According to some on the internet, that one episode ruined the entirety of Super. Let's be honest, that episode was pretty bad, however, it was still way to early on in the series to judge it so harshly. Then we got to the re-telling of the fight between SSG Goku and Beerus and it was actually better in Super than it was in the BOG. The SSG transformation sequence was given it's just grandeur and we learned more about SSG, Beerus, and Whis than what we had learned from BOG. Right now, we're in the middle of the re-telling of the Resurrection F story and so far, IMO, it's been better than the feature as well. They've added content and explained some things that the movie did not. Such as how Goku and Vegeta became so powerful and how SSGSS actually works. They've also kept with the humor that Toriyama is so famous for. The only thing that Super is doing poorly is creating a lot of plot holes and inconsistencies. Such as, how was Ginyu able to change bodies with Tagoma without speaking? On Namek, to change bodies with Bulma, he had to be outfitted with a universal translator that allowed him to speak. In Super, however, all he had to do was write the word change on the ground and Tagoma read the word out loud and it allowed them to switch. Also, Gotenks fusion was another plot hole. It's well known that the fusion dance lasts 30 min. Well, when Gotenks arrived at the battle between the Z warriors and Freeza's army, he defused in about 1 min. I refuse to believe that it took him 29 min to fly to the battle field. Especially after he was shown flying around the world in a matter of seconds in the Buu Saga. Also, they've left some things unexplained that really needs an explanation. For example, how and when did Vegeta get God ki? Also, what kind of training did Freeza do that allowed him to go from a Namek Saga level warrior to stronger than everyone except Beerus and Whis in only 4 months?

So while Super is a breath of fresh air for us die hard Dragon Ball fans, it does have it's issues. Overall, however, I've really been enjoying the show and I can't wait for it to get the American treatment so I can hear all of those iconic voices that I grew up with. For now though, if I had to give the series a rating out of 10, I would give it a 7/10. It's not perfect by any means, however, it's nowhere near bad. Also, for those of you in the know, we have some new content and characters coming up that hasn't been seen in any features yet. So Dragon Ball Super has definitely not played it's best hand yet. The series has some exciting things to come.

What do you guys think? Do you like DBS so far or not? What do you like about it or dislike about it? Let me know your opinions.
 
I've been really enjoying DBS. I know a lot of people like to compare the DBS archs of BoG of Resurrection F to the movie counter parts and try and deduce which is better. They are all great IMO. The BoG arc in Super I found did kind of drag its feet in certain places sure but the overall substance in the arc is better. I did a little mini review awhile back explaining what I liked about the arc and what I didn't. The movie though I found was just perfectly paced. While Super is a bit more fleshed out.

So far in the Resurrection F arc in Super I like. They did a bit more back story on things that the movie didn't. Like Freeza's training and how Goku and Vegeta obtained the SSGSS powers. The movie was great but it was clearly spliced into segments that made it seem rushed a bit. The pacing was awkward and it didn't really do much to explain things. The arc fills in those gaps. While so far the fighting in the movie has been better. I'm not overly impressed between the fight with Goku and Freeza in Super yet. But the story has more meat to it. I like the drama between Gohan and Freeza. Piccolo's downfall as well. The inclusion of Goten and Trunks, while brief was needed. Tagoma was a badass but was wasted. Ginyu coming back was a great call back but again, wasted. So to sum it up, I like the story in Super better but I think the action in the film was superior.

Now then. I was going to make a post about this sooner or later but since the Topic of Super was brought up, now I have my stage to discuss this topic. What I want to talk about is the Animation. More so the fans who endlessly bitch and moan every single week about how the animation is trash and the worst they've ever seen. I want to debunk that right now because it pisses me right off.

Its like these so called fans have never watched DB before. DB, from Z all the way to GT and now Super is notorious for inconsistency in its animation quality. I'm sure we've all noticed. Its especially bad in Z. You've all noticed that the animation quality seems to shift from episode to episode right? One episode is good while the next seems underdeveloped while the next is back to good so on so forth. People are constantly comparing the animation to Z and praising Z because of its superior animation. Take a look at this. I give you, exhibit A.

IwGcICI.jpg

Better than what you see in Super? Need more evidence? How about we take a look at exhibit B.

extra208-wat.jpg

Character model looks a bit...off wouldn't you say? Want another? Take a look at exhibit C

0I9itye.jpg

I have 2 points to make with this. Number 1. DBZ should not be omitted from this discussion when you want to bring up bad animation because Z is just as bad in that department.

2. The last image I brought up is different. Its not a stand alone shot. It was clearly taken in motion. Meaning somebody deliberately took the time to go through frame by frame to find a shot of a bad animation. This is the same type of person who goes out of their way to do the same in Super. This individual will go frame by frame to find any piece of sluggish animation they can find to prove their point. Which is ridiculous. Any Anime will have examples of that if that's what you do.

The only episode in Super that had truly bad animation was episode 5. Now because of that one episode, it has tainted the entire series. Everything they see now just reminds them of that one episode. If people would just for one second removed the rose tinted glasses and wipe the taste of nostalgia from their mouths, then they can see that the entire franchise suffers from this issue. People also need to realize that what we are seeing is just the raw stuff. most of the animation issues will be fixed and touched up once the bluray and dvds are released. Take a look at the difference below.

CW3eZ__UEAAqRRu.jpg

While not perfect, its certainly an improvement.

I say all this because it needs to stop. This entire scrutiny of the animation. Its a plague and it needs to be put to an end. Super is going to have wavering quality to animation, just accept that. Its Toei, they have a history of this. Its shows throughout the DB franchise. Its all over the place and you know what? Its not that big of a deal. Not every anime can be animated by Madhouse and look as good as One Punch Man. People should know by now.

If you still aren't convinced then I'll post this link from Kanzenshuu. It goes over the animation qualities, production indepth and different styles used in the series. So for the love of Shenron if you are one of those people, please read it and inform yourself. Read it and hopefully you'll understand.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/
 
DBZ Topic #26: Favorite DB, DBZ, or DBGT Feature

What's going on Dragon Ball fans. Last time on DBZ Topics, we discussed our opinions of Dragon Ball Super. It was a great discussion between all 2 of us. Today, I Am Phenom want's to discuss everyone's favorite feature. Will it be a great discussion? Find out today on DBZ Topics. *Que the theme music*

I kind of gave away my favorite feature in the last topic, however, I'll say it again. My favorite feature is Battle of the Gods. It was amazing and that actually shocked me. After not having done anything with the series for such a long time, I thought that BoG was going to suck ass. Again, surprisingly, it turned out to be the very best DB feature there was. What made it so good, well I'll tell ya. First there was the general things that made it good. The animation was beautiful, the fight scenes were very well choreographed, and the characters were all exactly how I remember them. The things that really made this feature great was the story and the antagonist. First off, this was the first feature with a purely original story to it. All the other features that were done throughout the entire DB story were all sort of rehashes from what had already been told. All the Dragon Ball features were rehashes. If you go one by one with the DBZ features you'll see how all of their stories sort of fit the story of the time that was being told within the actual DBZ canon. Also, all DBGT did was take a character from the last episode of GT and make a lackluster story around him. So BoG was the first DBZ feature that truly had its own story and it was told brilliantly. The shinning star of BoG, however, were the characters of Beerus and Whis. They were the first antagonists in a DB feature that were not just one dimensional and actually had some character development. From the very first time we see Beerus in the film, we're captivated and entertained and he and Whis manage to steal every single scene that they're in. We actually learn things about Beerus and who he is, rather than the same old story of a DB feature antagonist where they're just the bad guy and that's it. Notice I keep saying antagonist and not villian. That's because Beerus and Whis were not villians. They just provided the main conflict for the protagonist to overcome and that's all an antagonist has to do. Overall, BoG was amazing in every single way that it could have been and it was definitely a welcomed addition to the DBZ story. It could have felt old, tired, and contrite, however, it felt fresh and new and it showed that Toriyama and company might still have a lot left in the tank where Dragon Ball is concerned.

What do you guys think? What was your favorite of all the features and why? Let me know your opinions.
 
I have watched only a handful of DBZ movies, just the early ones- Dead Zone, The World's Strongest, Lord Slug, and parts of The Tree of Might and Cooler's Revenge. I watched these films back in 2007, when DBZ started airing on Cartoon Network India after a hiatus, so my memory is a little vague. My favourite movie was Lord Slug. It had the awesomeness of the pre-Super Saiyan era. Piccolo's imaginative idea to rip his own ears off before asking Gohan to whistle, was a good moment to witness. The World's Strongest was also a good movie, and I remember that the "Rock The Dragon" intro video had many scenes from it, like Master Roshi fighting those big guys, and Killin fleeing from a barrage of ki blasts... Also, I hate Garlic Jr. so there was no way that I would pick this a**hole's movie as my favourite. ;)
 

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