The Dragon Ball Z Thread

[SSJPhenom]

Well it happened, female Broly finally made an appearance and if this wasn't an homage to Broly then I don't know what is.

Her official name is Kale and she was being taught how to go SSJ by Cabba and Caulifla. When she finally did go SSJ, she completely lost control, buffed up, and started trying to wreck shit. I like that we finally have female SSJs, however, I hate how f'n easy it was for them to transform. Remember, the power is supposed to come in a response to a need, not a desire. These Universe 6 Saiyans seem to just be able to transform whenever the f'n feel like it. Also, was I imagining things or did Caulifla go SSJ2 when she swatted away Kale's blast? It sure looked like she did.

I get that they need to be strong to be a credible threat to the godly might of Goku and Vegeta and Hit and other characters, but there had to have been a better way to go about doing it. OMG, don't even get me started on the whole tingly back thing. I'll literally cry.

What do you guys think?

 

[Барбоса]

It's not a massive problem for me. No worse than Trunks and Goten being able to go Super Saiyan so young. Once there are Super Saiyans to tell you how to do it, the whole thing could be passed off as being much easier than Goku and Vegeta having to achieve it through their rage/despair breaking.

As to Caulifa, yes, I thought she was a SSJ2 as well. That would need a bit more explaining.

I did like Kale being scared of unleashing her power. There is a nice potential story there when Caulifla and Cabba are trying to battle her by breaking through to her original placid self, to remember before she was so consumed by Saiyan rage, only for her to reply in a Marvel Banner "I was always angry" type way, hinting that she always knew of this ridiculous power inside her or that she has become so addicted to the power that the original Kale is gone, replaced by the out of control Broli-like character.

The bigger question is who was Whis talking about when he said that there was a mortal stronger than Beerus? Hit? Jiren? Kale? Someone from one of the universes not in the tournament? Opens a door for a future arc.

 

[GOOZEKING]

Deep down in my soul it hurts. The entire tingly thing and the fact that it comes so easy to them it's just ridiculous. I do not care that they are more advanced I really do not. I remember when I first saw trunks and goten become super Saiyan I was pissed then too. But over time and the fact that gotenks was so cool, I got over it so I'll probably get over this too.

 

[lenguy]

It's not a massive problem for me. No worse than Trunks and Goten being able to go Super Saiyan so young. Once there are Super Saiyans to tell you how to do it, the whole thing could be passed off as being much easier than Goku and Vegeta having to achieve it through their rage/despair breaking.

Pretty much sums up my feeling. Before Goku, there hasn't been a Super Saiyan in 1000 years. The technique was lost and forgotten by time. With Goku transforming, he was able to pass on the knowledge to later generations(Gohan) Others like Vegeta found their own path. The whole in response to a need not a desire thing might only be just one way to unlock the form. Goku learned it through rage. It was the only thing he knew worked. Same with future Trunks. Vegeta through desperation and Gohan through his feeling of helplessness. There are bound to be more than one way to achieve the form

The U6 Saiyans probably evolved differently. Their biology could be more adept to easier capabilities to unlocking these forms. Its just they lacked the knowledge. Cabba didn't even know what a Super Saiyan was, that's how clueless they were on the subject. Once Cabba figured it out, it was only a matter of time before it started to spread. The more Saiyans there are that are capable of the technique, the more the knowledge will spread over time until it comes fairly common. Each user will spread their own experience over to the next it will become a lot simpler to access over time.

I don't know. It really doesn't bother me all that much. People find easier methods over time.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I guess that the U6 Saiyans being able to transform into SSJs so easily really isn't that big of a deal, however, they really really need to do a better job of explaining things. For example, I thought Legendary Super Saiyan was a different form from Super Saiyan. Wasn't Broly able to go regular Super Saiyan and then go a step further to LSSJ? When Kale first transformed she went straight to 'LSSJ'. Is her form even going to be called LSSJ? They need to explain these things. Also, did Caulifla go SSJ2 or what? I mean, if we resort to the eye test then IMO she definitely went SSJ2, but they didn't say anything about it in the episode. Cabba wasn't like, "Wow, she's found another form", or anything. Hell, Caulifla herself didn't say or do anything about it either. Are they trying to say that the U6 Saiyans are so advanced and so natural that they don't even notice when they surpass SSJ? They need to explain this shit. Hell, they still haven't explained what Future Trunks' new form was. If it wasn't for DB Heroes we wouldn't even have a name for it. I want explanations to this stuff.

Also, what do you guys think about the strength level of some of the supposedly weaker Z Fighters? 17 able to go toe to toe with SSB Goku? Sure Goku was holding back, but so was 17. Roshi able to go toe to toe with even base Goku? It takes SSB Kaioken to knock out Ultimate Gohan? Are they that strong? What do you guys think?

 

[GOOZEKING]

The android 17 being equal to goku I call bs. You can't tell me that protecting animals and fighting poachers for 10 years made you level of a god. For gohan I can kind of understand his power up because 1) he has higher potential 2) most of gohan's power has always been more mind then body. So clearly meditating for hours and training could push him.

That black goku arc was a mess with power levels. Case in point the entire super saiyan rage trunks thing and the fact that vegeta blue was way stronger than black after he went in the time chamber which means he is way stronger than goku. But then we have trunks and vegeta who couldn't win a beam struggle against merged zamasu but super saiyan blue goku alone could.

Anyway to the point in hand. The ep made me kind of confused on where gohan lies power wise. All we know is that he is between super saiyan 2-kaioken blue. You can not say he is stronger or weaker than blue because what was showed is that he is between super saiyan 2-blue kaioken.

Gohan and goku seem even in base. Then goku goes super saiyan 2 and gohan goes ultimate and they seem even there. Then goku starts beating gohan when he starts using instant transmission. Then gohan Starts beating goku after he landed that uppercut gut punch. Then gohan ask him to fight serious at full power which makes me believe that he was not satisfied with 2. Goku goes blue they each land 2 hits on each other. Goku goes blue kaioken and one shots gohan. So now I'm all confused.

If we are going by Toei explanation for spoilers for ep 91, he said that gohan held his own against super saiyan blue goku.

Maybe we should stop thinking about power levels all together. I mean they obviously had to nerf blue to an extent so others could "catch up." Toei is going to pick who he wants to be strong and how strong they are depending on the situation. We should all be happy that for this arc people other than goku and vegeta are given time to shine and hope they don't mess it up.

 

[SSJPhenom]

What do you guys think about Freeza's return? I have to say that it's going a lot better then I thought it would. At first, I was a little confused and let down at them putting Buu on the sidelines again and bringing Freeza back, however, these last couple of episodes have been amazing. That Golden Freeza transformation was the best transformation I believe I've ever seen in Dragon Ball period. Also, in the last episode, his fight against the assassins and how he was just killing them. It was exactly how I thought Freeza should act. I didn't want him to come back and they try and make him redeemable in anyway.

The only thing is, Idk that I buy how strong he's become. So by sitting and meditating he was able to; not only control his stamina issues in the Golden Freeza form, but become even stronger then he was before? So strong that he's able to deflect and control a God of Destruction's ki and he's at least as strong or stronger than SSB Goku?

 

[SSJPhenom]

Did anyone catch the Dragon Ball Super special that aired over the weekend? If you didn't you fucking missed out on something that truly was special.

Leading up to this one hour special, they had promoted the hell out of Goku's new form and I, like many other DB fans thought to myself, "Another f'n form? We have too many as it is". Ah, but this isn't your typical Super Saiyan form. For those that do not know, Goku's new transformation is called Ultra Instinct. From what I've gathered from Whis' explanations and watching Goku in the form; It mixes high energy output and control with pure instinct. I'm sure you guys remember Whis explaining to Goku and Vegeta that he could fight without having to think about what moves he was going to make. Basically, Whis fights off of pure reflex or 'instinct' and because of that, he'll never be slower than his opponents or out matched by them because he can never be taken off guard and he doesn't have to rely on knowing his enemy or what they're going to do because his body will automatically react to whatever they do on it's own. That's what Goku's new form is. He entered a state where his body reacts on it's own to his enemies. He has no wasted movements or wasted energy. Of course, he had to absorb an exploding Spirit Bomb to push him to that state but whatever.

What I like about this form is that it's not really a SSJ form. From the way the Gods were reacting, it's a state that any fighter who has trained enough and who has enough power can reach. Whis can reach the state and Beerus can somewhat reach the state but he hasn't mastered it yet. This gives me hope that Vegeta and Goku won't be the only two to reach this amazing power. I'm tired of it being all about them.

Anyways, what did you guys think of the special and the new form. Did you like it or not? Let me know your opinions.

 

[Барбоса]

I liked Ultra Instinct for a few reasons.

As you say, it is not a SSJ form, rather an example of Goku tapping into the powers of the Godly realm he has been given access to through the SSG state and training with Whis and Beerus.

I also liked that Goku was not able to control it at all, which again suggests that this is not some glass ceiling that once you are through it, it all comes easily. Goku is going to have to work to get back to it.

Better still, there was the added twist that Ultra Instinct still did not seem like it would defeat Jiren. AS Goku looked like he could live with Jiren but he did not really inflict any kind of damage on him.

A couple of nice surprises in the next episode with Hit and Freiza

 

[Dmbfantomas]

I'm only on the English dubbed ones on Adult Swim. This show is the Balls. Zen-Oh is a fucking BEAST son. I feel like a kid again watching them.