The Double Standard of Death in WWE

[Softcore Holly]

Was never a fan of RL death in storylines, it's not so much as I'm offended as it makes me feel uncomfortable, kinda hard to describe... I guess it's like I'm butting into someone else's personal business despite having no business being there. Yes I know they had to get at least 1 family member's consent first and all but that really doesn't do all that much for me, especially since it's unlikely that all the decreased immediate family would be ok with it. And I get that they're trying for the whole "you've gone too far!!" sort of heat but really it feels a lot more like they're going too far for that heat instead of the heel they're telling to take advantage of that tragedy.

I think the biggest part is a family death is one of the most tragic things to happen to someone, and bringing it up in what is supposed to be a entertaining angle just sucks a lot of the fun away. Of course we'll probably get a Charlotte win on Sunday and "her getting revenge for all this" moment but for me that's not enough to make up for taking what was already a decent enough feud and putting a huge unnecessary downer on it.

 

[MTL722]

You've also stated rather explicitly that you have sympathy for Flair. Or how else should I take this comment?



By saying this, you are intimating that it doesn't bother you for any of the above. And that's fine. But it also tells me you really don't have that much sympathy for Ric or Elizabeth.

Which, frankly, says a lot more about you than me.

I never stated I had sympathy for Flair. I do, but I dont know when I said that other than right now. (I smoke alot of weed to help me out here)I said I dont care about Reid being brought up, regardless of who knew beforehand.

I bring up my dead Aunt to those I know, not for sympathy or empathy (which is still dont know if you understand) but because she was an alcoholic who chose to drink herself to death instead of fighting lupus. Reid died of an addiction he either couldn't fight or chose not to.

I choose not to feel bad for those people. The families yes, the person, no. I have sympathy for Elizabth and Ric in that they had to bury their son. I dont have sympathy that their sons death was brought up in a storyline feud. Thats the business, one that their son WANTED TO BE IN

 

[d_henderson1810]

As I mentioned, I wasn't offended.

Thing is, Reid's death also didn't personally affect me. Nor did Owen's, if I'm being perfectly honest. I'm not saying we should all be outraged because WWE chose to say something on television. I'm saying the real issue is when WWE ignores (and, in Owen's case, goes right against) the family in which is directly impacted by this.

I'm not offended. But do we have any right to tell Ric, Elizabeth, and Martha not to be?

Do you know the real reason why Martha wants to sue WWE and blames them for his death?

Because Bret Hart put that idea in her head!

You see, after Owen died, Bret was still sulking about losing at SS '97, and poisoned Martha's mind against WWE, as revenge for daring to screw over the Almighty Bret "Hitman" Hart in his beloved Canada.

Then, when Bret decided he was no longer angry at WWE, he went back and made buddy-buddy with them. But he couldn't get Martha to change her mind back now. He had done too good a job smearing WWE's name to her, and they apparently fell out when he went back to the "enemy".

 

[Azane]

I guess the way I can sum up the entire Owen Hart thing, and I believe they said this the night of his tragic accident, Owen would want the show to go on, he would want DVDs of his career and the sport he put everything into before Over the Edge, so I don't care if WWE is profiteering from it, it brings people joy, and if Owen is anything like all the people described him PRE and Post mortem, he would be happy that his career is celebrated as highly as it is.

Then again, this is subjective, I didnt know Owen personally, and most of what I actually know about him is Owen Hart the character, not Owen Hart the person.

 

[The Brain]

Personally, I didn't mind the angle, but I do mind that WWE didn't think to call Ric or Elizabeth Fliehr about the angle.

I agree. I'm shocked they didn't reach out to Ric to ok this with him.

I see no one clamoring for a Fabulous Rougeau retrospective

Uh, you can sign me up for that one, but then again I'm....special

The point is, if we're looking at careers, Owen never really had that much of a storied career. He was a career mid-card wrestler, just like the other three I mentioned.

You make a solid point but I'd say Owen was much better than D Lo and Test. Realistically Owen is probably overrated. So many people have said he would have won the world title had he not died when he did. No chance. Owen had already peaked and there was no way in the world he was getting that belt. I know you didn't compare him to anyone today, but if I were to do that I'd say he's kind of like Dean Ambrose. An upper mid card guy that could be believable in a main event program if need be but not going to be world champion. I suppose Ambrose could be champ some day but this comparison is based on present day.

So, then we come to seeing if the Hart family makes any difference, which it might. But there's already a Hart and Soul DVD that exists, so I'm less sure it has to do with the Hart family name.

Question; how many of you have the Network?

Because probably 80% of this DVD, you will find on the Network. You mau find a match from Memphis or a Calgary match isn't there, but most of this DVD will focus on his WWE career.

You'll get some documentary stuff, but it's probably all stuff you already know. Is about 20% new content (at best) worth your $20+?

A few years ago I would have been all over an Owen Hart DVD. Now with the Network I don't know if I will buy it. I do want to see the documentary. If that ends up on the Network I can wait a few months to watch it.

By buying the DVD, you're simply lining up the pockets the McMahons.

I never have a problem with this. If McMahon puts out a product that I value more than the money it costs he deserves the profit. I'll probably just ask for it for Christmas. I think it comes out just before then. I've been told I'm difficult to shop for so this will lessen the burden on someone's shopping and save me some money. Whoever buys it won't have to wrestle with a morale dilemma since they probably won't know who Owen Hart was.

Is there any difference between what happened last Monday, and what WWE is doing with Owen?

If you are upset with what happened last Monday, do you still plan to buy the Owen DVD?

If so, what exactly is the difference?

As I stated I don't have strong feelings for any of this but I think the difference is simply people want an Owen Hart DVD. They will enjoy it. A lot of people didn't enjoy Paige insulting a 25 year old kid that died of a drug overdose, especially since that kid was the son of a beloved legend that is a very emotional person. If Triple H says something on the DVD like 'Owen was an idiot for falling from the harness but he wasn't going anywhere but down in WWE anyway' I'm guessing people would have a problem with the DVD too.

 

[rmp0012002]

You can't blame Paige since nothing is said without Vince and his cronies saying so. There are other ways to get heat without using the deceased. I'm for more reality in wrestling but I'd just rather avoid using someone who has passed to get over an angle. You wouldn't see someone feuding with say Jericho and saying something about Eddie dropping dead from a heart attack or Benoit doing in his family. I'm sure Ric gave Charlotte an earful if she ok'd using Reid's name since that should have been up to the parents and I'm sure Ric would have said no.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

I'll respond to you both in one post, as you seem to make the same argument; that this is an honor for Owen.

How? In what way does this honor Owen?

DVDs get made all of the time. I guess you could say WWE found him memorable enough to actually make a DVD. But at the end of the day, both were used by the promotion for profit.

WWE used Reid Flair (which people do know about. If they didn't, there'd be no need to even point to him) to further a storyline, that they hope more people will watch their PPV for.

WWE is using Owen Hart's likeness (against his wife's will) to profit off a DVD that will only line their pockets.

Regardless of how significant both were to WWE history, they're being used for the same purpose.

Ok, I get you are against this. Very entitled to your opinion, but so am I.

I never said this honoured Owen. I said it can celebrate his career, as pretty much any other DVD for any other superstar is meant to do.

Everything WWE does is for profit. Are you against an Eddie Guerrero DVD? Any Undertaker DVD including Paul Bearer?

I know these are slightly different as we don't know if families would be against it, probably not. But WWE could do a DVD in a very respectful way to celebrate the career of Owen Hart.

What happened was tragic, no one can deny that, but playing devils advocate, there is no way WWE meant for that to happen. It was a horrible accident. We all know the stories about what went on before that tragedy, and I won't rehash them, wreckless, absolutely, but an accident none the less.

I'm not trying to change yours, or anyone elses opinion on the matter. You simply asked a question and I gave my opinion. Regardless of what we say to each other, you will never agree with what I say.

 

[Con T.]

Ok, I get you are against this. Very entitled to your opinion, but so am I.

Understood, and I'm not trying to change it. Just offering another line of thought, and asking you to consider this other possibility.

I never said this honoured Owen. I said it can celebrate his career, as pretty much any other DVD for any other superstar is meant to do.

I would argue the Warrior DVD (the first one) and Jake Roberts DVD were far from celebratory. You could definitely argue that the Rise and Fall of WCW wasn't exactly celebratory.

WWE DVDs are what the WWE want them to be; PR for the WWE, and spin. And again, that's perfectly fine for them to do. But do you believe WWE is going to tackle the issue of Owen not wanting to go up on the scaffold, and perform the stunt that causes his death?

Probably not; sure, WWE DVDs celebrate the careers of the wrestler, but there's also a good amount of spin thrown in there, too.

Everything WWE does is for profit. Are you against an Eddie Guerrero DVD? Any Undertaker DVD including Paul Bearer?

I know these are slightly different as we don't know if families would be against it, probably not

.

You understand why I placed in bold what I did, right?

There's also another thing that separates Owen from Eddie and Paul; Owen died in a WWE ring. Owen died performing a stunt, that everyone knew was dangerous. He expressed a desire to not do the stunt, was told to do it anyway, and died.

Eddie and Paul died of causes that were possibly correlated to WWE (especially for Eddie), but Owen didn't die for those same reasons. Owen died in an accident, but an accident that was completely preventable.

But WWE could do a DVD in a very respectful way to celebrate the career of Owen Hart.

I don't doubt they will. But again, given the circumstances of his death, and his widow's refusal to take part, I feel uncomfortable with the premise of them creating this DVD.

Again, they have every right to make this DVD. I'm just not comfortable with it. And I don't understand how, if you were not fine with Charlotte/Paige angle, you'd be fine with this at all.

What happened was tragic, no one can deny that, but playing devils advocate, there is no way WWE meant for that to happen. It was a horrible accident. We all know the stories about what went on before that tragedy, and I won't rehash them, wreckless, absolutely, but an accident none the less.

And easily preventable, right? You would agree with me on that, would you not?

If that's the case...then it's still a death under WWE's watch. Whether or not there was intent doesn't matter to me; Owen's dead, and the reason he's dead is because of an easily preventable accident.

I'm not trying to change yours, or anyone elses opinion on the matter. You simply asked a question and I gave my opinion. Regardless of what we say to each other, you will never agree with what I say.

It's not an issue of agreeing, I agree that they have every right to do this. But that doesn't mean the discussion needs to end, just because we disagree. If we just stopped because we don't agree, then what's the point in even having a discussion forum?

 

[Navi]

I don't doubt they will. But again, given the circumstances of his death, and his widow's refusal to take part, I feel uncomfortable with the premise of them creating this DVD.

And easily preventable, right? You would agree with me on that, would you not?

If that's the case...then it's still a death under WWE's watch. Whether or not there was intent doesn't matter to me; Owen's dead, and the reason he's dead is because of an easily preventable accident.

I will agree with you that due to the way his widow feels maybe making this DVD isn't the best idea they've ever had. Okay we agree on that. The way fans can protest against this is not to buy it, but we both know this isn't going to happen.

And I agree that his death was preventable, but a lot of death's are preventable. Take a car accident's for example. No one expects to get in their car and never reach their destination, that's why they are called accidental death's. If the other driver hadn't been speeding, or had one too many to drink, or hadn't been texting on their phone or a thousand other reasons, someone might not have been killed.

In Hart's case, the WWE didn't plan for him to die the way he did, that's the last thing they wanted to happen. His death was a tragic accident, and we can't bring him back. Maybe in retrospect this is one wrestler where the WWE should just let rest in peace. If you want to watch his matches get the Network and watch them and celebrate his career that way. I don't know I'm not with the WWE and sometimes am puzzled by their thinking. All I know is I won't be buying the DVD if and when it comes out.

 

[Con T.]

I will agree with you that due to the way his widow feels maybe making this DVD isn't the best idea they've ever had. Okay we agree on that. The way fans can protest against this is not to buy it, but we both know this isn't going to happen.

And that's really my big problem, that I'm trying to understand here. If the fans were really upset by what happened with Charlotte and Paige, then why are you not willing to be upset about this?

Because fans are hypocritical, and in the race to be out-outraged, we've come to this. Where we will get on our high horse when something tasteless has happened, awe wag our fingers at WWE. We will scream at WWE "Shame, Shame, how dare you use Reid Flair's name and death to further your angle?!"

Then, those same fans will turn right around, and buy this Owen DVD.

And I agree that his death was preventable, but a lot of death's are preventable. Take a car accident's for example. No one expects to get in their car and never reach their destination, that's why they are called accidental death's. If the other driver hadn't been speeding, or had one too many to drink, or hadn't been texting on their phone or a thousand other reasons, someone might not have been killed.

After those deaths, do the people responsible try to profit off said death?

I would go ahead and say probably not...

In Hart's case, the WWE didn't plan for him to die the way he did, that's the last thing they wanted to happen. His death was a tragic accident, and we can't bring him back. Maybe in retrospect this is one wrestler where the WWE should just let rest in peace. If you want to watch his matches get the Network and watch them and celebrate his career that way. I don't know I'm not with the WWE and sometimes am puzzled by their thinking. All I know is I won't be buying the DVD if and when it comes out.

Then it would appear that you can see the issue here, and why this isn't so different from what they did this last Monday.

So, why don't other fans?

 

[Navi]

And that's really my big problem, that I'm trying to understand here. If the fans were really upset by what happened with Charlotte and Paige, then why are you not willing to be upset about this?

Because fans are hypocritical, and in the race to be out-outraged, we've come to this. Where we will get on our high horse when something tasteless has happened, awe wag our fingers at WWE. We will scream at WWE "Shame, Shame, how dare you use Reid Flair's name and death to further your angle?!"

Then, those same fans will turn right around, and buy this Owen DVD.

After those deaths, do the people responsible try to profit off said death?

I would go ahead and say probably not...

Then it would appear that you can see the issue here, and why this isn't so different from what they did this last Monday.

So, why don't other fans?

Maybe the reason people are upset is because we have a choice in whether or not we buy a DVD of someone like Owen Hart. We have a choice of whether to watch let's say a Chris Benoit match. When we're watching RAW and it's just thrown out there and we have no choice, then that might have been what put some people off.

There is a lot of ways to get heat without bringing up her brother, that's all I'm saying. Yes it was done with Charlotte's permission by all accounts, but let's face it Charlotte is new to the roster and might be scared to say no. I did notice that her parents weren't asked, reason being they might have deep sixed the whole idea.

It is what it is, and you can't get into other people's heads as to why they think why they think. We are all unique and have different opinions, if you're trying to understand how everyone thinks, you'll have a headache before lunchtime.

 

[Con T.]

Maybe the reason people are upset is because we have a choice in whether or not we buy a DVD of someone like Owen Hart. We have a choice of whether to watch let's say a Chris Benoit match. When we're watching RAW and it's just thrown out there and we have no choice, then that might have been what put some people off.

I agree that there's the choice of free will, but I also have a few issues with this:

1. You also have the free will to turn off your television. Yes, it wasn't exactly warned they were going to bring it up, but if you have such strong conviction that this was reprehensible, you would turn it off, right?

2. Vince McMahon doesn't listen to complaints on the internet (by and large). Vince McMahon doesn't give a fuck about things that the internet says. If yesterday's statement wasn't clear enough evidence of this, I don't know what is.

You know what Vince does listen to? Whatever lines his pockets, or doesn't. Vince, at heart, is a carny. He wants your money, and makes his decisions based on what makes him money.

As a result, when you buy the Owen DVD (not you in particular, I'm using "you" in the general form), you tell him that you don't really care about exploitation of the death. Especially if you can look at this DVD, see that it exploits the death of someone who died under his watch, and still purchase it.

The funny thing is, when you choose to buy these products, what you're actually telling Vince is that you don't care all that much about the exploitation of the death. It tells him that if he just waits six months, this outrage will be totally forgotten, and it will have meant absolutely nothing.

 

[Kurgen]

I must say, this is one of the best reads I've had in a while about the subject of exploiting the dead.
By no coincidence, turn on the various "News" shills about the current Paris attacks, and you might see some vague similarity. Make no mistake about that, the situation is still all about profits, doesn't matter if it's from a wrestling company or a group of heavily backed military contractors.
I agree with the OP, there has to be a line that needs to be drawn and supported by NOT shelling out your hard earned money for propaganda passed off as tributes.
Roddy Piper passed away not too long ago. they say it was stress related heart failure.
Piper had his Podcast removed and shortly after, the WWE terminated his Legends Contract. Give it a few months, and you might see a Piper "Tribute" DVD set on sale too.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I agree that there's the choice of free will, but I also have a few issues with this:

1. You also have the free will to turn off your television. Yes, it wasn't exactly warned they were going to bring it up, but if you have such strong conviction that this was reprehensible, you would turn it off, right?

2. Vince McMahon doesn't listen to complaints on the internet (by and large). Vince McMahon doesn't give a fuck about things that the internet says. If yesterday's statement wasn't clear enough evidence of this, I don't know what is.

You know what Vince does listen to? Whatever lines his pockets, or doesn't. Vince, at heart, is a carny. He wants your money, and makes his decisions based on what makes him money.

As a result, when you buy the Owen DVD (not you in particular, I'm using "you" in the general form), you tell him that you don't really care about exploitation of the death. Especially if you can look at this DVD, see that it exploits the death of someone who died under his watch, and still purchase it.

The funny thing is, when you choose to buy these products, what you're actually telling Vince is that you don't care all that much about the exploitation of the death. It tells him that if he just waits six months, this outrage will be totally forgotten, and it will have meant absolutely nothing.

I have to disagree I haven't heard anyone say this was the worst thing they had ever seen on TV or anything it was more of a moment for me anyway which I felt was in bad taste and I personally didn't like it.
People also have the freedoms to vent their disapproval and opinions of what they may watch on TV unless they live in North Korea maybe, No need for most people to turn their TV off just because they dislike one certain part of the show that they normally love watching and the fact that WWE did give a statement actually proves they must at least listen to some complaints.
I would argue making money is also the number one factor of any business this is not just a trait exclusive to Vince.

 

[Con T.]

I have to disagree I haven't heard anyone say this was the worst thing they had ever seen on TV or anything it was more of a moment for me anyway which I felt was in bad taste and personally didn't like it.

If people are outraged, (and they are), all I ask is that they consider how they implicitly tell Vince they're not all that outraged, by giving him money when he does exploit death.

People also have the freedoms to vent their disapproval and opinions of what they may watch on TV unless they live in North Korea maybe, No need for most people to turn their TV off just because they dislike one certain part of the show and the fact that WWE did give a statement actually proves they must at least listen to some complaints.

And that venting and disapproval? It means nothing to Vince.

Meaning, if you're so outraged by this, and want Vince to understand why you're outraged, you shouldn't be giving him money when he does exploit death.

Your venting? It means nothing to Vince.

Your money? It means everything to Vince.

I would argue making money is also the number one factor of any business this is not just a trait exclusive to Vince.

I never said it was. I said he had every right to do it, and pointed out how the NFL does the exact same thing.

If you think I'm mad at Vince, I'm not. I'm mad at the people who enable Vince.

That would be you, the fan.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I think one huge difference is that Owen Hart was a very well known name in the WWE. Reid Flair was not.

The Owen DVD, if done in the right way, will look at his accomplishments in the ring, as a performer. All the fans knew Owen as the performer, and if the DVD stays on that theme I don't see an issue.

Reid was no part of the WWE, he had no direct connection with it himself really. Obviously his father and sister, but how many of the locker room would have known Reid on a personal level, like the locker room knew Owen?

I am in no way trivialising his death, but as an impact on the WWE itself, Reid was a lot less.

Now to the point of it being brought up on Monday night, given the status of Ric in the company, I'm quite surprised he wasn't consulted....BUT...Charlotte is a big girl. Ric has said that she wouldn't be in a position to say No yet....BUT....if she really felt like it was wrong then it was up to her to step up. Career or not, your family comes first.

Now if she gave it the go ahead, I don't have an issue with it. If charlotte agreed that it was ok, who are we to disagree with her?

Reid Flair no, wasn't a WWE name....but his death was mainstream news all over the country, in every newspaper, on all the nightly news shows, many local news show, and got continued coverage in various news outlets in the weeks afterwards, namely because of how well known a celebrity his father was. Its more likely todays fans are more aware of Reid than they are of Owen since Owen's passing was almost 25 years ago.

As for "family comes first" not in wrestling.....you don't play ball with creative they cut you off, pretty simple. Im not saying its right, wrestling is full of stories of guys including big names like Savage, Hart, Ric Flair, and others who went ahead with storylines and matches they detested because they weren't in position to say "No. Hart has been very vocal over the years for his dislike of the Canada heel Brett storyline and many of the promos he was asked to cut as well as his general dislike for the more adult themed nature of the product of the time, but as the company's longest tenured main eventer and recent World Champion he didn't have a lot of sway to say "No" - until it became a matter of money and WWE sent him packing. Ask Flair how he felt about the ridiculous heart attack and insane asylum storylines he was given, he's said he hated them many times over and was particularly upset over the heart attack because his family was watching and they were in Atlanta (right after Falcons HC Dan Reeves had one). He needed a job though, so he went through.

 

[FlairFan2003]

You cannot compare the careers of Reid Flair and Owen Hart. I'm sure many people know of Reid Flair, but more know of Hart. Not only because of his efforts, his family also but more importantly the way he died. Not many wrestlers have actually died in a ring during an event.

.

I disagree.....Owen Hart was a mid carder who died (albeit tragically) nearly 25 years ago. Reid Flair was all over CNN, FOX, the network news, in newspapers all over the country, just a few years ago, linked to his infinitely more famous father who still appears in WWE is a celebrated WWE legend. I bet most of the fans watching today are more familiar with Reid and his passing than even know who Owen is, unless you're in your 40s and at that stage how often do you even watch WWE, a program geared to a demographic of 8yrs old to maybe late teens/early 20s ?

 

[FlairFan2003]

.

The RAW incident was completely different. Most fans in attendance there and probably a lot watching would have had no idea who Reid Flair was and how he died. He wasn't in the WWE that long, and even though the Flair name is big, it's not as big as the Hart Dynasty. .

Maybe in Alberta Canada but in the US casual fans of about five different age groups all know Ric Flair.....when LeBron James is on TV talking about the originator of "bling" he wasn't talking about the Hart Dynasty, he was talking about Ric Flair. There are rap songs dedicated to the guy, he's one of the biggest celebrities ever in the history of the business.

Brett Hart is well known but the rest of the family at least in the US was not and only die hard wrestling fans make any connection to the "Hart Dynasty" name. For most fans they wouldn't even know what that is.

 

[OYDK]

I disagree.....Owen Hart was a mid carder who died (albeit tragically) nearly 25 years ago. Reid Flair was all over CNN, FOX, the network news, in newspapers all over the country, just a few years ago, linked to his infinitely more famous father who still appears in WWE is a celebrated WWE legend. I bet most of the fans watching today are more familiar with Reid and his passing than even know who Owen is, unless you're in your 40s and at that stage how often do you even watch WWE, a program geared to a demographic of 8yrs old to maybe late teens/early 20s ?

People know who Owen Hart is give me a break. I've been watching wrestling forever and I had to look up how Reid died. Yeah Owen Hart was a mid-carder. So was Mr. Perfect. So was Rick Rude. So was Jake the Snake. All legends deserving of a DVD and twice that, but they mere mid-carders.

You're acting like Owen was a jobber. He was consistently in the upper mid-card and always had a large fan following.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Lets not overlook that a big part of the Owen DVD promotion will center around his death, if anything his death (the way it happened) makes him more promotable than he was during his actual career. Hopefully the DVD wont be disrespectful but it will be trading heavily on the circumstances of his death to make money.

The way WWE used Eddie Guerrero's death in storylines after his passing was pretty tasteless too, and far more prevalent (at least so far). If anything the bad publicity from that I would have thought would have made them leary of the current Reid thing.

WWE also mined a lot of storyline mileage out the real life tension between Edge & Matt Hardy over them both being romantically involved with Lita.

And even though it was made up and not based on a real life occurrence, WWE really went into full tasteless mode with the Katie Vick angle. And pretty much stayed there for Torrie Wilson and her dad too!!!

Agree or disagree one thing is certain, WWE "has gone there" before and likely will again. Very little is off limits when it comes to making a profit.

 

[whoopin' ass]

I am a fan of Owens and a Canadian (even lived in Calgary) but I do understand what you mean about Owen. While he was good, his career was still on the rise and people tend to look more at the potential than at what actually happened when they talk about him. I know people disagree but I have always said dying doesn't mean you get to go to the Hall of Fame, you career does and Owens career was not Hall of Fame worthy as you illustrated. With his upcoming dvd, yes part of it is profiting from his death but there is now an entire generation who don't know who he was so I don't think it is bad for them to release it. I don't know the details but my hope is that wwe is smart enough to share come of the proceeds with some of the charities in Calgary that Owen supported.

As for the double-standard, for sure there is, always has been. I do think they have no issue making money off of deaths if it is someone like Owen or Eddie who the fans loved which is a little strange but really, are other industries different? Music does it all the time - every few years there is some new Elvis boxset and he has been dead almost 40 years. Before she died, Whitney Huston cds were going cheap but as soon as she died, everyone jacked up the price and sales were good. I think it all comes down to how it is handled. In the Flair case, it wasn't under good circumstances so I can see people getting mad. A lot of it is just personal - do you feel they are exploiting that person? Is there a reason to mention them or could you have left them out and accomplished the same thing? I am more surprised that it gets mentioned given the wwe's pg gating more than anything else. I mean, wrestling always tried to push people's buttons to get reactions but with then trying to be pg, I am surprised they would go that route.

 

[FlairFan2003]

People know who Owen Hart is give me a break. I've been watching wrestling forever and I had to look up how Reid died. Yeah Owen Hart was a mid-carder. So was Mr. Perfect. So was Rick Rude. So was Jake the Snake. All legends deserving of a DVD and twice that, but they mere mid-carders.

You're acting like Owen was a jobber. He was consistently in the upper mid-card and always had a large fan following.

Are you 15 years old....are you currently today in junior high or high school or starting in college ??

if so then you make up the vast majority of the WWE fan base, a fan base that has had Flair and his legacy shoved down your throat your entire time as a fan, alongside the legacy of HBK, Hogan and a few others, Owen was never mentioned, and for you to have any idea about the career of a guy who never main evented and before you were born is pretty impressive, especially compared to much more recent all over the TV and newspaper coverage of the tragic death of a WWE Icon that is still on TV today.

 

[OYDK]

Are you 15 years old....are you currently today in junior high or high school or starting in college ??

if so then you make up the vast majority of the WWE fan base, a fan base that has had Flair and his legacy shoved down your throat your entire time as a fan, alongside the legacy of HBK, Hogan and a few others, Owen was never mentioned, and for you to have any idea about the career of a guy who never main evented and before you were born is pretty impressive, especially compared to much more recent all over the TV and newspaper coverage of the tragic death of a WWE Icon that is still on TV today.

Really? It's impressive to know about a wrestler who died before you were born? Bruiser Brody, The Von Erichs, THE GRAND WIZARD. All dead before I was born and miraculously, I know who they are... amazing isn't it, I used a special something called the internet. Do you know what the internet is? For you to say that a 15 year old wrestling fan doesn't know who Owen Hart is, is ridiculous.

I don't know if you're in your 40s or whatnot, but if you are you should really not talk about kids like you know them. You seem to be really out of touch with the youth of today.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Music does it all the time - every few years there is some new Elvis boxset and he has been dead almost 40 years. Before she died, Whitney Huston cds were going cheap but as soon as she died, everyone jacked up the price and sales were good.

In the worlds of art and literature, look at the middle-of-the-road artists and writers for whom the value of their works went through the roof upon their deaths. Does anyone have a problem with that? No, yet for some reason, pro wrestling is the field that gets the most crap for this type of thing.....at least as regards Owen Hart.

At that, I don't believe 'profiting from death' is the sole purpose WWE is putting out DVDs for selected performers, although that certainly is one of the reasons. This field of sports entertainment likes to honor their own, and Owen Hart certainly qualifies. True, he wasn't building a Hall of Fame career, yet his connection to Bret Hart might have given Owen enough notoriety to get him in the Hall, anyway.

Okay, you'll tell me, the company should refuse to produce the DVD because Owen's widow doesn't want it. That's an argument with no moral resolution, I suppose, yet I choose to look at it this way: Martha Hart is a rich woman today because of her late husband's association with WWE.....not only from the judgments she won in lawsuits, but the salaries he earned from performing were surely far in excess of what he could have earned in any 'regular' form of employment. She didn't choose to reject any of the monies she received from WWE, either before or after Owen's death, did she?

Okay, so according to the provisions of the contracts Owen signed during his career, WWE owns the rights to images of all he did, and has the right to put them on filmed packages to be sold.

I doubt the DVD will be a hatchet job on Owen Hart; but rather, a sincere effort to honor him. If WWE makes money from it, so be it. If people who've seen the DVD come up to Martha on the street and tell her how they enjoyed learning about Owen's life, she can thank them gracefully.....or spit in their faces. It's up to her.

But although feeling deep sympathy for people we've never met remains a perceived virtue in the human race, I'll confess......after 16 years.....to having my sympathy for Martha Hart running low. WWE isn't asking to have Owen's body exhumed for the purpose of displaying it at Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. They just want to make a DVD paying tribute to his life.

Enough, already.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Really? It's impressive to know about a wrestler who died before you were born? Bruiser Brody, The Von Erichs, THE GRAND WIZARD. All dead before I was born and miraculously, I know who they are... amazing isn't it, I used a special something called the internet. Do you know what the internet is? For you to say that a 15 year old wrestling fan doesn't know who Owen Hart is, is ridiculous.

I don't know if you're in your 40s or whatnot, but if you are you should really not talk about kids like you know them. You seem to be really out of touch with the youth of today.

Interesting....I have two teenage children who both watch WWE, as do many of their friends. Before that a decade ago my nephew in his teens in the early 2000s with many of his friends were big WWE fans. I can tell you the following by being VERY IN TOUCH with todays youth and being a wrestling fan for over 30 years myself....

None of the kids associated with my two teens or any of the kids I come across that are wrestling fans through my work (restaurant manager at a Country Club) know anything about Owen Hart, they don't remember because his midcard career was over before they were born and he has been a non entity on WWE programs ever since. They didn't know who Nick Bockwinkle was when he died last week and actually asked me if I remembered him and Bockwinkle's career was three times as long and five times as great as Owen's was. Now these kids don't have a huge association with past stars such as Hogan, HBK, Flair, etc but they are aware of them since WWE still markets their appearances and merchandise and celebrates their careers. They wouldn't know Owen Hart if he landed in their laps.

When I was a kid wrestling was at its peak in popularity and acceptance nationally in the 1980s. NWA wrestling on TBS was the most watched program on all of Cable TV, our market in Pittsburgh aired close to 20 hours of wrestling TV each week between WWE, NWA/WCW, AWA, World Class and for awhile UWF. I was a huge fan, soaking up any info on the industry I could. Yet even though I had a vague awareness of past stars long retired I knew very little. I was aware of Buddy Rogers mainly because of his ties to Ric Flair, ditto Superstar Graham vs Hulk Hogan. Verne Gange wasn't a 9 time World Champ to me he was Greg Gagne's dad who used to wrestle. Fritz Von Erich wasn't the evil foreign language speaking villain of the 60s he was Kerry Von Erich's dad. I knew Curt Hennning, not Larry "The Axe" Henning and had no idea Tully Blanchard's dad was ever involved in wrestling even though I could have quoted you verbatim the dates and opponents vanquished for all of Tully's major title wins. And I was about as much a "Super Fan" as there was.

I do know that today's kids have a vague awareness of Reid Flair, one thanks to all the mainstream media coverage surrounding his death (and linking him with his dad) and also because its fairly recent.

I'm sure there are younger fans who are aware of the careers of departed and retired wrestlers long out of the public eye. I am also sure since I'm raising wrestling fans and interact with their friends on a regular basis that this type is fan is a tiny fraction minority of the millions watching WWE each week. You are probably a big enough fan that you know who Reid Flair's MOTHER is (Elizabeth, Ric's 2nd wife and longest marriage lasting 20 years), and in fact likely have seen her numerous appearances at wrestling shows in the 80s & 90s supporting Ric. And how many other teenage fans do you think know that, have seen that, or even care ? They may have respect for Flair alongside some other WWE legends through WWE's continued efforts to burnish their legacies post retirement but that is it.

Anyone who thinks the average 13 year old wrestling fans watching RAW actually have significant knowledge of the careers of Owen Hart, Bruiser Brody, Nick Bockwinkle, Verne Gagne, etc ....THAT PERSON is out of touch with the average fan and hasn't got a clue.

As for the internet - its great, if you care - Again, how many 13 year olds are avidly going online to research the careers of dead wrestlers never mentioned on RAW ??? You seem to think its a huge amount, maybe YOU ARE DOING THAT (makes me wonder why you don't go outside and play with your friends once in awhile) but the overwhelming vast majority.....NO they are not.

As for Owen, most of today's audience, at least in the key demo WWE targets the most, would have little or no clue who is or why he is relevant. WWE is marketing this DVD to older fans who likely don't watch the product regularly but might invest in the DVD for nostalgia sake, and his death is a huge part of the marketing.....not the first time WWE has done such a thing and likely not the last.

As for Reid, younger fans would have a better idea about him, at least that he existed and how he died, because it was so much more recent. I doubt they have a huge understanding of his career, his title runs in Japan, etc (those aspects were only covered in a fraction of the news reports on his death but as a die hard fan I assume you know all about his over seas success). I doubt they have much more than a vague concept of who he is really, but that's probably more than that age group has for Owen.

WWE using either situation to in some way generate revenue may displease people, many find it distasteful (marketing a DVD about a career 2nd teamer just because of his tragic death is distasteful, especially when they have never given documentary and Greatest Hit collections for wrestlers who were MUCH more popular with bigger careers than Owen such Rick Rude, Lex Luger, The Steiners, and a few others) but that is how "WWE Rolls" and always has been.

I'm honestly surprised they haven't done a Miss Elizabeth documentary. Maybe they don't think OD'ing on pain killers is as marketable as dying while performing in the ring. I can only imagine what Jerry Lawler merchandise we would have gotten has his in ring heart attack a few years ago been fatal.