The Botches Keep On Coming

[ringthebell]

Is it just me or do the WWE wrestlers keep botching more and more? For the past 3 months or so, I have noticed more botched spots than ever. I mean, these guys are professionally trained and are supposed to know the correct techniques right? WWE has always had my interest as it was my only choice after my beloved WCW was bought out. It's been pretty cool leading up to Wrestlemania. I do worry though about the WWE thinning out their roster with continued botches in these matches.

Last night at EC, I saw Wade Barrett do a flying elbow onto the Big Show and the Big show was a little out of position causing Wade a hard slam on his ribs. I saw Kofi Kingston get his head busted open, and I saw Daniel Bryan take some hard hits that could have been taken a little softer. Tonight on Raw in the Battle Royal, Jericho goes for a code breaker and Big Show doesn't even go down all the way to receive the hit and completely under sells it. I see Big Show toss Dolph Ziggler out onto Wade's arm and pretty much causing a major arm injury to him. Show, we know your the strongest, and the biggest, but damn, overthrowing a wrestler? Really? One more, Cody Rhodes eliminating Santino in the direction of Wade Barrett who was being attended to by medical officials, come on Cody, use your head dumbass.

I could go on and on and on about these botches but those are a few examples, all I am asking is, once they reach the WWE, do they have continued training? I understand they have practiced for years, and they have to remember all the spots in the match and have to work together on a great level, but I mean come on. If the injuries keep happening off of botched spots in the match, this roster will diminish and this will be a crappy product.

 

[ringthebell]

It's not just you. Today's wrestlers just aren't as talented.

Pro wrestling is a dificult artform to master.

It may be difficult, but after seeing all the dvd's and reading all the books, the way they all speak about all the grueling training they went through just to get here and all the "proper" techniques they have mastered for years, it seems like they would actually be able to execute things without them going awry.

 

[HorsemenNo4]

I don't know if you can blame Big Show for Wade's injury though. Looking at the videos on youtube, it just looks like Wade landed wrong. Ziggler clearly went further than the guys expected though, I can't deny that.
Injuries happened a lot years ago too. Remember D-Lo breaking Droz's neck? Owen breaking Austins neck? list goes on. There have been an increase of injuries as of late but I think it's bad timing and less about careless wrestlers.

 

[1ToughSOB]

It's not you

it's obvious that wrestling is more about face time on camera and doing their soap opera rolls for the crowd. than it is about getting in to the ring and doing the actual fighting

 

[INDYjon22]

Or, ya know, the wrestlers just had an off night. Good lord, all of this talk about the guys today not being as talented as the guys of yesterday is ridiculous. Injuries happen, guys get sloppy, it's part of the job. A bad part of the job, but a part all the same. Besides, isn't Big Show one of the guys from the "wonder days of wrestling" where no one botched anything? Please. It was an unfortunate accident that saw Dolph get over extended in the air and land awkwardly on Wade's arm. I wish Wade the best in his recovery, hopefully it isn't as bad as it looked, but don't crucify Show or anyone else for a botch. It seems to be overlooked but Kofi got pushed when he wasn't ready by Jericho tonight and looked like he tweaked his ankle. My point being, it was just an accident and it has no baring whatsoever on these guys abilities as performers.

 

[Miakisaki]

There have been an usually large number of botches and/or injuries over the past couple weeks. Jesse Sorensen taking that nasty spill, Orton's concussion coming off of another injury, Miz missing the catch on Truth, Kofi requiring staples, and the mess that was the spot on Raw that led to Barrett getting hurt along with possibly Dolph.

I think both companies need to take a step back and re-evaluate how to get talent to get their heads back in the game. This is especially true for the WWE since they have Wrestlemania around the corner. I have no idea whether or not they are practicing some of these spots beforehand, but a lot of them are really just careless mistakes that maybe stem from miscalling or miscommuncation.

The mere fact that "throwing up the X" is being discussed so much lately is kind of disheartening.

 

[slice_of_life]

I do blame the Big Show for the injury to Wade, but I blame the WWE more for allowing a scenario to occur where someone is thrown so close to the table. After re-watching the spot, it only took me one time to see that the Big Show was careless. He threw Ziggler way too hard and is lucky he didn't break his neck.

I am not saying the Big Show purposely did it--because I dont believe that. But I do think he was careless.

 

[1ToughSOB]

Or, ya know, the wrestlers just had an off night. Good lord, all of this talk about the guys today not being as talented as the guys of yesterday is ridiculous. Injuries happen, guys get sloppy, it's part of the job. A bad part of the job, but a part all the same. Besides, isn't Big Show one of the guys from the "wonder days of wrestling" where no one botched anything? Please. It was an unfortunate accident that saw Dolph get over extended in the air and land awkwardly on Wade's arm. I wish Wade the best in his recovery, hopefully it isn't as bad as it looked, but don't crucify Show or anyone else for a botch. It seems to be overlooked but Kofi got pushed when he wasn't ready by Jericho tonight and looked like he tweaked his ankle. My point being, it was just an accident and it has no baring whatsoever on these guys abilities as performers.

I believe that their grueling schedule contributes to the injures they suffer! I mean when you just came off a grueling weekend of road shows, then have to
travel to Minneapolis to do a live Raw show, it can take it's toll on you and it can force you miss moves you'd normally execute.

which causes injures like the one tonight

 

[Showtime]

Botches come and go in spurts in prowrestling. We can go months where there are very few botches and then we can go through a stretch where every big match has a noticable botch. The examples you brought up are more nit picking. Some bad botches of late, Big Show dropping to the mat on Orton's no existent RKO last monday, and Miz no matching R-Truth that same RAW i believe. The first happens now and again, but that is an example of a bad botch. A guy beinging slightly out of place, landing funny, or being busted open, is regular occurances with the job. Miz miss catching R-Turth is a bad botch and can lead to injuries. Those are the ones that should never occur. Big Show didn't botch the move, it was entirely an accident, same as when Kane attacked Edge on SD years ago and tore his pectoral muscle clotheslining him or something. Show may have over thrown slightly, but that wasn't his fault.

It's Wrestlemania season so what do you really expect. A lot of guys are feeling some pressure right now and with the large number of rewrite ups to the scripts everyone seems to be on the edge of their seats. Stressful times, which most certainly leads to a few more errors in the ring. Let's hope the WWE can regroup and start turning in some steady performances and build up to WM.

 

[UrbanDynasty]

There's no doubt that missed spots have been a little more frequent lately.
I personally blame carelessness on both sides of the botches, its impossible to throw someone onto someone the "right" way 100% of the times and I'm pretty sure Big Show doesn't know his full strength sometimes, however, there is usually room to pick up a botch and fix it, I think that was the case with Barret. He tried to adjust for Show's mistake and it backfired.
Ultimately, I think Big Show should re-evaluate his performances lately, think of his obvious RKO travesty last week and a few more before that.

 

[Psyclone]

I don't blame bigshow for "underselling" the codebreaker or not going all the way down... he's 7 feet tall.. he's always taken codebreakers like that because he cant go all the way down easily... plus at 7 feet tall he's allowed to undersell it a little..

I don't fully blame cody rhodes either for the fall on wade barrett... It's partially santino's fault too.. He knows he's about to be eliminated he needs to move away further from the injury as well... it's an equal blame both ways on those 2

 

[jrichardson25]

I think a lot of it has to do with the schedule they're on. They're still on the road over 300 days a year. If they got quite a few cut out specifically so they can train in the ring it would help. Its like going to the gym once and knowing how to do barbell curls then never doing them until you want to show off... your form will suck...

My point is they still need practice time. Regardless of how good and how long they've been in the ring. It would just help them overall but sick bumps will still happen... examples... see Droz, Austin, Edge, Cena's neck and pectoral injury, etc etc.

 

[King of the Words]

WWE, I believe, over work there wrestlers big time, as they always have, and as we all know , when we are over worked, and worn down, mistakes can happen. It all comes back to WWE's greed to make as much money as possible off the backs of the poor wrestlers who have to proform way too often. If WWE truly cares about it's Wrestlers, they will lighten their work load and give them proper time to rest and recupe so they can work in a safer work enviroment. But we all know WWE won't because of the money they would lose out on. Shame on you WWE.

 

[shafe_41]

First off, I need to ask how the hell is Big Show throwing Ziggler a "botch?" It's called a freak accident. Miz not catching Truth... is a botch. Big Show messing up the RKO last week... is a botch. Big Show tossing Ziggler over the top onto Barrett is hardly a botch. A true "botch" is something that could have simply been avoided. Freak accidents happen which was the case tonight. Criticizing Big Show for over-throwing Ziggler and Wade breaking his arm is not fair at all. It's not Show's fault the way Barrett's arm was positioned whatever way he had it. You people are so fast to criticize everything these guys do in the ring and point out every simple imperfection and break down the situation like you could do it better. It's ridiculous. But when someone throws a 230 lb. man 12 ft down to you on the floor and you are supposed to prevent him and yourself from injury, that whole moment goes so fast it's much like a car crash. You can't "think" about every single little detail going on. It's instinct. Shit happens. Injuries happen. Just because an injury happens in professional wrestling doesn't mean somebody is at fault.

 

[cmjericho]

First of all this is pro wrestling. On live TV at that. Non of us who have ever been in the situation these guys are in have no room to speak about it. About how hard it is to go out on live television infron of thousands of people and act without laughing. To have a 5 minute promo without messing up your words. Having a match without botching a spot. This is improv people. A predetermined winner and spots but the rest of the match is made on the fly. By having to quietly tell the other person a spot at that. Tom Brady has been playing football since he was a child but does he have a bad pass every now and then? Does Kobe Bryant miss a shot or a free throw? YES! People rarely come on here and make a thread about the good someone did in a match on the show but every single time someone botches a spot it is the first thing people want to discuss. It is a live show people. I dont care how long they have trained for this everyone in the world makes mistakes.

 

[H33LTurn]

People say about Orton going off backstage and getting Ken Kennedy fired but just look at how much an injury can cost you. They just announced on WZ that Barrett possibly wont be performing at Mania due to the injury. A guy who was almost destined to face Orton in what would've been a career defining match at the grandest stage of them all is now sidelined thanks to someone else's reckless behavior in the ring. They need to stop worrying about the look and the celebrity of the talent and build up their moveset in FCW. You can learn how to talk on your way up the ladder, but a wrestler who doesnt know what hes doing in there is as good as a wrestler with no personality.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate here for a moment. I don't think there are more botches in professional wrestling now than there were in the past. I think it's pretty much the same, and maybe even a little less. I do think that we are more aware of botches when they happen these days, however. I think this is for two reasons. Firstly, I think there are more resources for us to "educate" ourselves as to how things are supposed to go, so when a botch happens we see it and recognize it for what it is (or at least we do so more often.)

I think that the other reason it seems as if botches happen more often is that the press, dirt-sheets, or whatever it is that reports what happens in professional wrestling are a lot less protective of the stars. It's more or less accepted that this is a performance rather than being "legit" so we know that injuries more than likely happen because something went wrong with the performance, not because one of the wrestlers was just that more "badass" than the other. At one point, a wrestling company might have simply spun the story that way, but today it would be recognized immediately as total BS. Also, wrestlers screwing up gets the attention of the readers. I think we all know how much the average reader of what passes for "news" these days enjoys seeing famous people screw up.

So, in conclusion, it might seem there are more botches today, but I doubt that's the case. I'm pretty sure those who report these things are doing so more freely and loudly than they use to.

 

[Arsenal]

There may have been just as many botches "back in the day", but hardly anything was on live TV, so it was easier to edit out parts of matches, or even the whole match before broadcasting it. Now with Raw live every Monday, there's no way to cover up the botches.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Has nothing to do with performers today not being as talented. The stuff they do today is infinately more complex than it has ever been.

The Hogan era, punch, bodyslam, stomp, pose, chinlock, seriously, most athletes can be trained to do this and not fuck up.

The Attitude era, punch, kick, irish whip, duck clothesline, thesz press, maybe a suplex in there, but a lot of punches, kicks, and irish whipping, again, not too complex.

The stuff they do today is just very intricate and incredibly difficult to do.

I don't think there are really all that many more botches than before, there has sort of been a rash of them the last few weeks. Most of them don't look bad though. DB slipping on his backflip is something that would happen in a fight, Miz not catching Truth would happen in a fight. The only one that was really bad was Show and Orton screwing up the timing on the RKO.

 

[dudedudedude]

I think the botches to some extent make it feel a little more real. I don't mind seeing staples to the head, or sick landings, it gives it that 'raw' feel. What I don't like, is, where it feels forces, like, for example, the RKO big show screw up.

As for comments about no botches in the 'glory days' you're kidding yourself if you think that. Pulled punches (badly), and called spots were common place.

 

[DirtyD79]

I think a lot of it has to do with the schedule they're on. They're still on the road over 300 days a year. If they got quite a few cut out specifically so they can train in the ring it would help. Its like going to the gym once and knowing how to do barbell curls then never doing them until you want to show off... your form will suck...

My point is they still need practice time. Regardless of how good and how long they've been in the ring. It would just help them overall but sick bumps will still happen... examples... see Droz, Austin, Edge, Cena's neck and pectoral injury, etc etc.

I think a much lighter schedule would definately do wonders for the wrestlers. There's only so many days straight you can keep on pounding these people and have them running around allover the world. Sooner or later physical and mental fatigue kicks in then botches and injuries happen. Also it's a large part of why wrestlers abuse painkillers and unfortunately we've seen far too often where that leads.

 

[Heavens Vibe]

I think its more to do with rapid script changes and such that the superstars just aren't getting enough time to familiarise themselves with the moves that they would have to perform at a certain time to follow through with the script. Look at EC, its reported the script was changed on the last day as to some of the outcomes, hence maybe some of the in ring action had to be changed and the guys just hadn't got enough time to master what it was they had to do in that situation.

 

[lgreene9187]

Show definitely has had a couple tough couple weeks, with the botched RKO, then the codebreaker and then this. When I saw it in real time last night, I thought Ziggler was the one that got the worst of it. Even the announcers thought that until EMT's started tending to Barrett. When they showed the replay, I see how Barrett got hurt but I still don't know how Ziggler DIDN'T get hurt. To his credit, Show was visibly shaken after he launched Ziggler. You could see the concern on his face right after it happened. I don't believe he did it maliciously, but still there has to be some emphasis on the safety of his co-workers.

 

[The Idiot]

It's not you

it's obvious that wrestling is more about face time on camera and doing their soap opera rolls for the crowd. than it is about getting in to the ring and doing the actual fighting

I was about to say, that's why we get so many botches nowadays.

But then I thought about it...and I'm not buying it. No excuse. These guys are on the road year round performing at house shows and you name it. They have hours upon hours of experience in the ring. Botches shouldn't happen as often as they do.

 

[JoonDaGr8One]

Botches are just part of the game, its just bad timing because its leading to wrestlemania. But to say these guys aren't as good as guys in the past is a bit much, wrestling is the only athletic event where people think the guys in the 90's are better athletes. I love the old school era but they didn't leave their feet as much as these guys do now so injuries are gonna happen, as well as screw ups.