The Bigger WWE Legacy: CM Punk VS Randy Orton

[S.J. Maximus]

With all these threads talking about legacies and careers in retrospect I decided to start comparing some of these careers and seeing what you guys think. For this thread, I'm taking the two people that the posters on this site specifically have argued about being Cena's #2 guy since 2011, Randy Orton and CM Punk. I recall a thread in the fall of 2011 asking people who they thought was #2, and with Punk in the midst of what eventually became a 434-day WWE title reign most people voted him over Randy at the time. I'm sure people would interject Daniel Bryan into the discussion now (rightfully so) but I'm changing the focus of the discussion from "who's better now" to "who has the better career so far"

So let's look back, you'll actually see that these two guys (who obviously tread different paths and come from completely different paths) have pretty similar careers:

-They both have respect from their peers and legends alike, and are credited for being among the most talented performers of their generation.

- Both debuted on TV as 'the future of the business' and proved the prophecy true by winning their first World Heavyweight Championship 2 years after their debut (2004 & 2008)

- Both are Triple Crown Winners (although Punk is the fastest ever with 203 days; it took Randy a few years)

- As of now, both are 3-time World Heavyweight Champions

-Both men were given the honor of putting on a classic match with The Undertaker at WrestleMania (21 & 29)

-Both men were given their first WWE title run 5 years after their debut (2007 & 2011), only to lose it and regain it quickly for a lengthy second reign

-Both successfully defended the WWE Championship in their 6th year at WrestleMania (WM24 & WM28) and continued to experience top billing in their 7th year despite losing (Orton main evented and Punk faced Taker)

With all those bulletpoints linking these men, I think few things separate them, ultimately giving Orton the edge. CM Punk held the belt for 434 days, which is the longest for the modern era and IMO the single-most legendary achievement of any star in the 21st century. However, Orton is one of the few people who can call himself a 10-time World Champion. Orton has also won a Royal Rumble and main evented a WrestleMania, which are two things CM Punk has yet to do.

Lastly, the final point that I'd like to make for this argument is the fact that Randy Orton is a 3rd generation superstar. He is somewhat carrying the Legacy of Bob Orton Sr. and Cowboy Bob Orton as a part of his, which I also think helps give Orton's a legacy a slight boost over Punk's. That's just my opinion, however, so tell me yours!

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I've got to go with Randy Orton on this one. Like you mentioned, he is a third generation superstar, which already gives him credibility in the ways that it gave The Rock credibility when he started out. Being the youngest ever World Champion already solidifies a legacy in itself. At one time Orton was the biggest "tweener" in WWE, fighting both heels and faces and still getting the bigger pop from it. His membership in Evolution will go down in history books as one of the best stables of all time. There was a time that Legacy was a legitimate threat to D-X, which IS one of the best. His "Legend Killing" gimmick was monumentous and can never be copied. I won't go into the legends that he ran through, because seriously, at this point he is almost one himself. His finisher is the most standout finisher in WWE history, in my opinion, and will be remembered and listed in fans' "Top Ten Finishers In WWE" for generations.

It's a tough choice, but looking at what Orton has accomplished for the business and himself compared to what CM Punk has done, I have to go with The Apex Predator.

 

[Limitless]

Randy Orton

Reason being is the guy is a 10 Time champ and is a third Generation Superstar. The guy will be around for the next 7-10 years while Punk maybe 4-5 years if that. Orton Signed a huge contract and is a Ten Time champ and I hate to say this but Punk really had done nothing till the Pipe Bomb Dropped. Not to say that Orton has done so well for himself, but when punk was starting out the first couple years were just him in the shadows. While Orton was young and got a Evolution spot, becoming "The Legend Killer" and did well for himself for a couple years.

Punk had his moments with The Straight Edge Society and the hardy Storyline, but he has just now gotten back into people's heads. Punk is a personal Favorite so this is not a biased response. Randy Orton has had a better Career So far but who knows what will happen.

 

[Merkin353]

I'm saying Orton simply for the fact that Punk peaked during the Summer of Punk & will never get that again. I see Punk winning this years Rumble to face Daniel Bryan in the main event of Wrestle Mania & if that is the case Punk will help his case. But until he wins the Rumble & main events WM he will never compare to the legacy of Orton. But with that being said Punk is far more entertaining.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Orton and it's not even close.


In ring skills-Punk
Mic Skills-Punk
Popularity-Orton
Charisma-Orton
Better feuds-Orton (Cena, HHH, Taker > Cena, Hardy)
Better tag teams-Orton (Rated RKO > Kofi and Punk)
Better stables- Orton (Evolution, Legacy, Corporation 2.0 > SES, New Nexus)
Better finisher-RKO
Better theme song-Debatable.


Plus Orton was in WWE longer than punk, he was in WWE for over 10 years, Orton main evented mania, look at the names Orton has wrestled and punk didn't:
Flair, Michaels, Steiner, Goldberg, Nash, Cactus Jack, Kamala, Sgt Slaughter, Piper, Dreamer, RVD.

Let's not forget Dusty Rhodes and Hulk Hogan ended their WWE career with Orton.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

I will go with Orton. Punk is arguably bigger star now but in terms of career Orton had bigger carrer then Punk due to fact that he was more years in WWE and that he was heavily pushed from start of it. Yougest Champion ever, 10 times champion, was involved in multiple big storylines and mainevented Wrestlemania. Punk has 400+ days title holding and in past 2 years he is no2 guy in company(after Cena, with Bryan now taking that no2 spot) but he never was that heavyly involved until recently(2011- ) and never mainevented Wrestlemania. He can get his legacy in WWE to get bigger then Ortons in time but he is still not there...

 

[Mustang Sally]

Punk is arguably bigger star now but in terms of career Orton had bigger carrer then Punk due to fact that he was more years in WWE and that he was heavily pushed from start of it.

Exactly right. The rant Daniel Bryan delivered to Randy this past Monday illustrates the point; Randy is a third-generation wrestler, whose path to stardom was paved by family members that came before him. I don't remember him really having to scratch for airtime the way others did; he was a "chosen one" before he set foot in a WWE ring. Vince McMahon probably remembers Randy as a 7-year old running around the locker room.

All of that isn't to say he hasn't got the goods as a performer. Despite what many say about blood running thin from generation to generation, I think Randy is twice the wrestler is father ever was. I never saw his grandfather, but from what I can gather, he never attained the stardom Randy has now.

Still, it's tough to compare his legacy to CM Punk since Randy has such a head start. Yes, Punk has been with WWE since '06 but his true impact wasn't felt until the Summer of Punk (2011) when he ranted and raved his way to new prominence. It can be argued that this is when he truly started establishing a legacy for himself.

Randy's place as a WWE legend seems secure; he's already done so much that can be measured. With Punk, more depends on where he goes from here and whether his "rebel" act can endure and evolve. I don't know if he's finally happy with his position and influence in the company, but if he's got creative power over his character and uses it wisely, he might one day surpass anything Orton has ever done.

But to answer the question today: Randy Orton has the bigger WWE legacy.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Punk's legacy. Punk has a large number of devout fans. Those fans are likely to carry on his legacy longer than Orton's fans. The OP set up a terrific side by side comparison of the two and it is clear that their accomplishments are similar and there are arguments to be made on both sides. By the time Punk's devoted fans are long gone the stat sheets don't speak in favor of either guy resulting in a push. So I give it to Punk for the next 40 or 50 years of attention his name will bring and the fans that will bring it.

Just one more point: Orton's lineage doesn't give him a longer legacy necessarily but Orton's success has done wonders for his father and grandfather's legacy. If either Orton or Punk want to have the bigger legacy I suggest they start working on having some kids and getting them in to the gym.

 

[MWRedskins]

let me first say that CM Punk is one of my favorite wrestlers and i think he's much better in the ring and on the mic than Randy Orton ever is, BUT this is WWE Legacy, not my personal opinion and when you look at their careers, Orton's legacy is bigger. he's won more WWE and World titles, he's headlined more Wrestlemanias and been involved in more main event wrestling storylines. Punk's WWE Legacy will end great if he retired today, but Orton's is bigger as he's spent more time in the WWE and been involved in more stories. Punk has his moments and i hope he gets more of them with other WWE title runs or World title runs, but Orton's WWE Legacy has more moments, so Orton wins here.

 

[Big Monty]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Punk's legacy. Punk has a large number of devout fans. Those fans are likely to carry on his legacy longer than Orton's fans. The OP set up a terrific side by side comparison of the two and it is clear that their accomplishments are similar and there are arguments to be made on both sides. By the time Punk's devoted fans are long gone the stat sheets don't speak in favor of either guy resulting in a push. So I give it to Punk for the next 40 or 50 years of attention his name will bring and the fans that will bring it.

Just one more point: Orton's lineage doesn't give him a longer legacy necessarily but Orton's success has done wonders for his father and grandfather's legacy. If either Orton or Punk want to have the bigger legacy I suggest they start working on having some kids and getting them in to the gym.

i agree whole-heartedly with this, up to this point, Orton has had the better career, just because he's been around much longer, but I think when all is said and done, Punk will end up with the better legacy. I see Punk headlining wrestlemania either this year or the following (especially with the possible rumors that Austin wants to work one more match with him - that alone would solidify his legacy). I think Punk has a much deeper connection with his fans than Orton does as well, and that will eventually be the deciding factor on who's career was better.

 

[MCMG]

Randy Orton has achieved more and I know that isn't the only way to judge "legacy" but I do think it is a very important way. Orton has had 10 world title reigns which is a great achievement. Orton has been in the main-event for almost a decade and he has performed at such a high level for that time. He was also part of a very good stable in Evolution which was integral in the WWE at a transitional stage.

Of course Punk has also achieved a lot but overall, Orton has done more. Randy Orton came in at such a young age and was an immediate success. Yes, he probably got an opportunity because of his family but his talent ensured he was successful. It is very close between the two, Punk's 434 title reign will ensure he is remembered very fondly but Orton's overall sustained success means he will have the greater legacy.

 

[Mac Attack]

Randy Orton has the bigger legacy of the two and like what has been said before it's clearly because he's been around longer. Comparing careers is a really daunting task as there's a lot of criteria which can be looked at when disusing the topic. However for this argument sake if we look primarily at accomplishments (title reigns) and good storylines so far it without a doubt goes to Orton. With that being said I truly believe CM Punk has the potential to surpass this if he sticks around for a while. However it is clear that right now it goes to the Viper ad right now it really isn't close.

 

[Lord_Frish]

The problem with deciding this is that neither mans career is over yet. Plus an important part of defining someones legacy is done when they finally leave WWE and how they do so. I know it is a bit extreme but look at Chris Benoit, with the way WWE treats his legacy pretty much no one will remember him 50 years from now well not for what he did in the wrestling ring anyway.

It is entirely possible that Punk or Orton will piss WWE off before/when they leave and it'll have a huge impact on their legacy. However right now I have to give the edge to Orton, Orton has worked some fantastic matches with people considered legends in the business already. Punk just doesn't have the high profile matches right now to hold the same legacy.

 

[Kidpolean]

Orton...and its not even close. Punk took way too long to get over. Orton being around longer has nothing to do with this. Orton came in and was an instant success while punk was irrelevant for years. Orton is the current champ and younger. Punk will not catch up unless he wrestles til he's 40. The guy has been relevant for like 2 years compared to Orton's 12

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

I voted Punk.

But Orton's WWE legacy is bigger. How can you argue with all the opportunities given to him. 7 World Title reigns, being in stables with the best in the company, high profile matches.

Punk's wrestling legacy is better. No doubt in my mind when I think of these two I will always think of Punk truly being the better guy, I know how the WWE works, the best isn't always the best. If you went back and counted unique moves you've seen each wrestler do throughout his career, I bet Punk's would be over doubled of the moves Orton's done or even knows.

The WWE is always about protecting the WWE, and Orton is WWE. WWE knows they can't control Punk like the others therefore he will never be given the Legacy that Randy Orton will be given because of Orton's genetics. Punk could ditch the company for all they know after his next contract is up, he's a loose cannon. He damn near had to leave the company in 2011 just to even get a shred of the opportunities that Orton has had. That is why Orton's legacy will always be greater.

Punk is hot right now, if they wanted to.. Punk would be bigger, better, and more awesome than Orton ever was. But I don't think they truly want Punk to be the top guy. The Staples Center at Summerslam was about to explode bigger than when Eddie beat Brock for the title when Punk was about to make Lesnar tap.

So Orton and his superstar look will hold the Legacy just like they want it. Punk will continue to be very popular, but will have to scratch, claw, and maybe even shoot on the stage a bit more for every opportunity they give him, while Orton will always be considered one step away from being their top guy.

Figures, John Cena goes down and they FINALLY decide to back a top heel with the company. Just when it was time for the next face to step up... tsk tsk...

 

[Henry Hill]

I keep coming across the same points for ranking Orton ahead of Punk being the longer tenure of Orton's career. I'm sorry but I don't really feel Orton has been anywhere near the level of being over as CM Punk has been. The WWE revolved around CM Punk for nearly two years. He's facing the biggest opponents there are right now and has had some of the most quality feuds of the past several years. even his mid card feuds and matches were good. His mic work is miles ahead of Orton, and he has been able to have different styles with his different characters. the straight edge messiah spoke a certain way, the original baby face character spoke differently, the voice of the voiceless gimmick had its own style, and now he's making the usually bland angry vengeful gimmick work. Orton has had one voice and one style throughout his career on the mic. Both of them are excellent in the ring. but I give this to Punk. He's the more household name. He gets the same kind of recognition on UFC events that Taker, Rock and Austin have. In the end Quality > Quantity.

 

[Sundar]

Orton definitely has the bigger legacy because he has been around longer but personally I prefer Punk. The only time I liked Orton was when he was in Evolution. I've never been a fan of the legend killer and Viper gimmicks or the DDT from the ropes+RKO and his entrance themes have always been terrible in my opinion. The only thing I like about him is the fact that he sells well.

 

[latinoheat8979]

I will go with CM Punk. Randy Orton had a 3-4 year head start if you take those years away and start him out when Punk did it'd be close. I will say Punk. 434 days as World Champion is quite the accomplishment in today's era. That beats out 10 World title reigns any day add to that Punk has been World Champ 5 times (3 WHC, 2 WWE Champ).

30 years from now when both men are remembered Orton will be remembered as a 10 time plus champion, 3rd generation wrestler, so-so on the mic, and a member of Evolution and leader of Legacy.

Punk will be remembered as a multiple time champion, his 434 day title reign, his "pipe bomb" promo, great work on the mic and leader of the SES.

Punk's legacy up this point is bigger.

 

[H33LTurn]

Randy Orton has a definitive edge in comparison to Punk. The majority of Punk's accomplishments, specifically the ones that set him apart from the rest of the roster, have occurred outside of the WWE. While Punk is clearly the better wrestler and has arguably had the bigger impact on the wrestling industry, Orton has had a more stable WWE career than the majority of the current roster. Orton was introduced as the son of a legend, spent very little time in the lower cards, and eventually moved on to a major role within the Evolution faction. From his career's inception, Orton has been working alongside some of the biggest names in the business. He got the rub off men like Flair and Triple H, and to a lesser degree Batista who has been successful in his own right. Durring his legend killer gimmick he also worked with some of the biggest names in the business. Orton wasted no time in becoming one of the longest reigning Intercontinental Champions in recent history. He won the World Heavyweight Championship against the late great Chris Benoit. He faced Taker in a stellar feud and spent the majority of the next two years working along side Hall of Famer, Edge. His career peaked when he was mentoring Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase in Legacy, and he had a great rivalry with another great, Triple H. He's now doing what every great superstar does, putting over younger stars. Despite losing a lot of his career's momentum, he's still the company's biggest name after Cena.

Lets compare all of that to Punk's career. He debuted on WWECW and his first rivalry was with Mike Knox. He did manage to win the ECW championship before the C show closed down for good. He won the MITB and consequently the World Heavyweight Championship, but lost it to Undertaker after breaking the dress code. Then it was the straight edge society and the New Nexus from there.

There isnt a point in Randy Orton's career where he isn't working with some of the best talent in the industy. The same can't be said for CM Punk. Orton peaked just a few years ago during his legacy angle, significantly after the many highlights of his career. Punk, on the other hand, is peaking right now, and doesn't realistically have many more years in the business, especially with the grueling demands he has had to meet over the recent years. Both men have done remarkable things for the business, and definitely left an everlasting mark on the WWE, but Orton has a pound for pound better career than Punk's.

 

[Kidpolean]

I will go with CM Punk. Randy Orton had a 3-4 year head start if you take those years away and start him out when Punk did it'd be close. I will say Punk. 434 days as World Champion is quite the accomplishment in today's era. That beats out 10 World title reigns any day add to that Punk has been World Champ 5 times (3 WHC, 2 WWE Champ).

30 years from now when both men are remembered Orton will be remembered as a 10 time plus champion, 3rd generation wrestler, so-so on the mic, and a member of Evolution and leader of Legacy.

Punk will be remembered as a multiple time champion, his 434 day title reign, his "pipe bomb" promo, great work on the mic and leader of the SES.

Punk's legacy up this point is bigger.

one title reign beats 10?

That 434 day title reign isnt that impressive to me...He wasnt the top guy. He main evented 4 ppv's in 2012 as the champ and 3 of them consisted of John Cena and the only one that didnt have Cena in it only happened because Cena was hurt. He constantly faced mid-carders on ppv's like DB, DZ, Del Rio, and Ryback. There was no real threat to the title because the main eventers were preoccupied with matches that were bigger than the belt. His wrestlemania match while holding the belt was put below The streak, and The Rock.

Cena's 1 year reign is much more impressive because he held the belt while carrying the company. During Randy Orton's reigns, he was at least in the top feuds and viewed as the top dog at the time.