Should Del Rio have gone over Edge at Mania?

[MizMark]

Based on the fact that Edge has now retired just 1 week after Mania should he have gone over Del Rio at Mania? It seemed odd at the time that Edge won, and that when he did Christian didn't turn on him, but it now makes sense that this was done as one last great moment for Edge before he retired.

But should it have happened? Aren't wrestlers supposed to go out on their back to put over the talent that is staying?

Del Rio has gained NOTHING from losing to Edge at Mania and has lost a little momentum, whereas he would have gained so much more if Edge had lay down for him. Hell, they could even work it into a storyline where Del Rio can claim that he was the person who retired Edge, which again would put him over huge.

I just don't see what good has come out of Edge retaining the title, because now Del Rio cannot get over by beating the biggest face on Smackdown for the title. He has already defeated Christian in the last week so if it is those two at Extreme Rules Del Rio really doesn't gain a lot from beating him again.

This isn't a troll thread, this isn't a thread for Edge hate, I am just curious what peoples opinions are on this?

Just to put this out there, Austin's proper retirement match was against Rock at Mania, and Austin knew that that was it, as did Rock, but he still lay down and put Rock over in a big way, so I do not want to see people just say "Edge has been around for x years and deserves to go out with a win" because that isn't how the business works. I want proper reasons please

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

No.

I'm pretty sure the E had a decent idea that this was happening with Edge pretty soon, and that's in part why they had him go over Del Rio, so he could finish his career with a successful title defense at mania.

This wasn't about Del Rio, it was about Edge. Del Rio has been there for less than a year, Edge had given his life. It was the proper way to send Edge off.

 

[MizMark]

No.

I'm pretty sure the E had a decent idea that this was happening with Edge pretty soon, and that's in part why they had him go over Del Rio, so he could finish his career with a successful title defense at mania.

This wasn't about Del Rio, it was about Edge. Del Rio has been there for less than a year, Edge had given his life. It was the proper way to send Edge off.

Okay, so why didn't WWE let Austin finish his career on a high and give him a "proper send off" as you put it when he faced the Rock?

The proper way to do things if you're leaving is to go out on your back.

Look at the 3 biggest stars of the last 10/15 years who have recently retired in WWE:

Michaels
Flair
Austin

How did all of those three get sent out? They all lost their final matches.

You can still give someone an emotional and amazing send off without having them win their final match.

 

[xcoN]

They said WWE knew about Edge's condition going into W.M. and had the feeling something major could happen to his career. The day of W.M. they made a ton of last minute changes just so Edge would go out on top since it could very well be his last match. So do I think Del Rio should have come out on top? No, whether Edge was going to be ok or not it was still too early for him to win the big one at 'mania so i'm still glad he lost.

 

[hatehabsforever]

First of all it may be somewhat of an assumption that this retirement is fully legitimate. I truly believe it is legit and the retirement is real (at least for now as retirements often end and people return.

Assuming it is legit, then Edge should definitely lost to ADR at WM27. It is a long standing tradition for guys to leave the business in defeat, passing the torch to someone new in the process. This would have been a show of respect on Edge's part for the business he competed in for so long. Plus it would have elevated ADR big time, winning a major title on the grandest stage of them all against one of WWE's most decorated superstars, and not only winning against Edge, but ending his career in the process.

Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of Edge and am not particularly high on Del Rio. I loved seeing the result we got at WM. But no one is bigger than the business, and there is well established protocol and tradition when people leave. Austin lost. Flair lost. HBK lost. And Edge should have lost too. And this is why Taker's finale, whenever it happens, should not be at a WM. Because he needs to end up on his back in his finale too, just not at a WM at the jeopardy of the streak.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Christ I am quite sick of this. Alberto Del Rio is not a big enough star to win a World Championship at Wrestlemania. Period. Edge winning was the right move, whether he was on his way out or not. They probably figure he could make it to Extreme Rules and drop it then, but it appears Edge wasn't willing to risk his livelihood over a championship belt. No harm, no foul, ADR is still likely going to face Christian and win his first World Title at a lesser PPV, like he should. Dropping the belt to a nobody at Wrestlemania isn't the right move in any case, whether Edge was leaving or not.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Okay, so why didn't WWE let Austin finish his career on a high and give him a "proper send off" as you put it when he faced the Rock?

We're talking about Edge/Del Rio here, right? What does Austin have to do with Edge? To answer you silly little question, I'd say Austin/Rock had a little more substance than Edge/Del Rio

The proper way to do things if you're leaving is to go out on your back.

Nice opinion you have there, perhaps try stating as an opinion instead of a fact.

Look at the 3 biggest stars of the last 10/15 years who have recently retired in WWE:

Michaels
Flair
Austin

Well I'd argue your list of top stars firstly, secondly, again with the Austin. His career was built upon a rivalry with the Rock, the Del Rio/Edge fued started up a couple months ago.

How did all of those three get sent out? They all lost their final matches.

Are any of those wrestlers named Edge? no, okay then. It doesn't matter how these other people retired, it JUST DOESN'T MATTER. All those guys had successful mania title defenses, Edge didn't. They wanted to give Edge the title defense because he was yet to successfully defend the title at mania, the concept really isn't that hard to grasp here.

You can still give someone an emotional and amazing send off without having them win their final match.

Which is what YOU wanted to see happen, you can also give someone an emotional send off by having them win there last match - See Edge last night.

 

[RatedDTM]

I am a big fan of Alberto Del Rio but i am an even bigger fan of The Rated R Superstar and for Edge to go out as World Champion was the right thing to do.

Del Rio has the rest of his career to win the World title and will more than likely do it at Extreme Rules, he has been in one of the main events of Wrestlemania i think thats enough exposure for someone with less than a year i the company.

Edge has given his life to the WWE and forget about storylines and putting people over Edge deserves to go out on the top of his game and with the World Title around his wasit.

Edge is one of the greatest ever superstars and i cant wait to see him in the Hall of Fame.

Thank You Edge!!

 

[MizMark]

Christ I am quite sick of this. Alberto Del Rio is not a big enough star to win a World Championship at Wrestlemania. Period. Edge winning was the right move, whether he was on his way out or not. They probably figure he could make it to Extreme Rules and drop it then, but it appears Edge wasn't willing to risk his livelihood over a championship belt. No harm, no foul, ADR is still likely going to face Christian and win his first World Title at a lesser PPV, like he should. Dropping the belt to a nobody at Wrestlemania isn't the right move in any case, whether Edge was leaving or not.

John Cena won his first World Title at at Wrestlmania. Was he a nobody too then?

Del Rio won the Rumble for christ sake, he isn't a nobody. Yeah he debuted less than a year ago, but the way WWE have built him up has been strong.

This is turning into a hate on Del Rio thread, rather than what I wanted it to.

Take Del Rio out of it then, and put Christian into his place, should Edge have still gone over? Or should he have layed down and created a new Main Eventer to fill his place?

 

[RatedRockstar]

Okay, so why didn't WWE let Austin finish his career on a high and give him a "proper send off" as you put it when he faced the Rock?

The proper way to do things if you're leaving is to go out on your back.

Look at the 3 biggest stars of the last 10/15 years who have recently retired in WWE:

Michaels
Flair
Austin

How did all of those three get sent out? They all lost their final matches.

You can still give someone an emotional and amazing send off without having them win their final match.

Because dude Edge has never succesfully retained at mania, and he said it was his dream to walk out of mania as champion, the WWE knew he was about to be done and knew hes given everything to the business. So they decided hes won everything else lets just let him have one more accomplishment, its not a big deal del rio will be champ soon enough and Edge gets to retire at the top as he rightfully should.

 

[RatedDTM]

I would have been happy for Del Rio to go over Edge at Mania and i think for some time that was the original plan i mean this guy was going over everybody, had a good match with Kofi at the Chamber and looked so good in SmackDown matches.

I think the fact they didnt put Del Rio over at Mania is so that they could show proper respect to Edge knowing he would retire.

Either that or the fact that Miz retained meant they didnt want two heel champions leaving the same Wrestlemania, therefore the title stayed with Edge

 

[Nate DaMac]

John Cena won his first World Title at at Wrestlmania. Was he a nobody too then?

Uh, no? He was one of the 2 biggest stars in the company along with Batista. Del Rio is not comparable to them, not by a long shot.

Del Rio won the Rumble for christ sake, he isn't a nobody. Yeah he debuted less than a year ago, but the way WWE have built him up has been strong.

WWE has tried to build him up, but it hasn't worked out too well. The live crowds don't give a shit about him because he isn't anything special. Pulling the trigger on him at the Rumble was a mistake in my opinion, and I think they know it now.

This is turning into a hate on Del Rio thread, rather than what I wanted it to.

It's just an opinion of mine. I don't see what everyone else seems to see in Del Rio. I think he's a mid carder. Not a main eventer.

Take Del Rio out of it then, and put Christian into his place, should Edge have still gone over? Or should he have layed down and created a new Main Eventer to fill his place?

It depends on the build. If Christian took off and we started to see that the crowd was behind him or, if he was a hell, he seemed to be garnering massive amounts of heat, then yes. Christian could have won. There's a gray area you seem to be ignoring. This idea that you're supposed to lose your final match and that's it is very flawed. Austin, Michaels, Taker all lost their final matches, correct. But, they all lost to big stars, not stars on the rise you could end up being total busts like Del Rio. It's not worth it to possibly tarnish a man's legacy by having him lose to a man who could be gone tomorrow and no one would notice.

 

[rge2010]

Did WWE even know at Mania it would be his last match?? I dont think so. Why didnt Edge announce this on last weeks Raw or last weeks Smackdown? Because nobody was 100% certain.

Injuries aside, Edge was probably going to go over Del Rio regardless.

 

[Swarles Barkley]

Okay, so why didn't WWE let Austin finish his career on a high and give him a "proper send off" as you put it when he faced the Rock?

Because Austin wanted to give The Rock that win. Austin felt it was only right, after two Mania victories, to allow The Rock to get one on him. Besides, the Austin-Rock feud stretched back to 1997. Edge-ADR stretches back to... January?

The proper way to do things if you're leaving is to go out on your back.

Sometimes, sometimes not. If you want to get extremely technical, Bret Hart's last singles match was when he won the US title. His last Mania match was when he beat Vince. His last match (that I can recall) was when he was a part of Team WWE they beat Nexus at Summerslam. Not what I'd call "go[ing] out on your back."

Look at the 3 biggest stars of the last 10/15 years who have recently retired in WWE:

Michaels
Flair
Austin

How did all of those three get sent out? They all lost their final matches.

I already touched on Austin, so I won't delve much further into that. But I will say, look at who those three lost to in their respective last matches. HBK lost to Undertaker; Flair lost to HBK; and Austin, as previously mentioned, lost to The Rock. These are not up-and-coming stars, these are well-established veterans. ADR is not in the same league as Taker, HBK or Rock. It's not the same situation.

You can still give someone an emotional and amazing send off without having them win their final match.

Or you can let them leave with a 'W'. It's no big deal. My guess would be that Undertaker will leave much the same way after a win at Mania. It doesn't diminish ADR to have lost. I don't think he's lost any momentum, and I don't think this will derail his title chances. It's not a big deal.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

What? You didn't feel like finishing our little engagement? Well, I've got no problem budding into your other convo.

John Cena won his first World Title at at Wrestlmania. Was he a nobody too then?

Lol, desperate to try and get people to agree with your opinion, are you? By the way, was that Cena's first Mania? it wasn't... that's what I thought.

Del Rio won the Rumble for christ sake, he isn't a nobody. Yeah he debuted less than a year ago, but the way WWE have built him up has been strong.

So did Jim Duggan, what's your point?

This is turning into a hate on Del Rio thread, rather than what I wanted it to.

No it's not, people just aren't lining up to agree with your opinion, I personally like Del Rio; but that doesn't change my opinion on how Edge went out.

Take Del Rio out of it then, and put Christian into his place, should Edge have still gone over? Or should he have layed down and created a new Main Eventer to fill his place?

Take Del Rio out, a star who's been here less than a year, and add Christian, a Star who has been by Edge's side since he first started in the company, a man who won a number of titles with Edge, and a man Edge considers one of his closet friends. I'd say those circumstances are just a little bit different.

That's like me saying, "Lets take this years mania main even, but let's take out Cena and Miz and add Austin" That changes things just a bit, and look, I got a Austin reference in there; do try and contain yourself.

 

[pepentorresHHH]

Like it was said already, Edge didn't know that that was going to be his last match....maybe ADR was supposed to go over at ER in order to build their programn up? We don't know how their program would have ended or go over....I'm one of those old school guys that think that every world champ has to pay his dues overtime before winning the strap so when they get to the top it has meaning... As much as I like ADR I didn't want him to go over at Mania, maybe down the line but not so fast.
As for using Austin,HBK and Flair as examples of wrestlers leaving on their backs..... Austin WANTED to put over the rock in his LAST match..... And shawn and flair were technically "forced" to retire according to the stipulations of their last matches ....just my two cents

 

[The Perfect Max]

John Cena won his first World Title at at Wrestlmania. Was he a nobody too then?
QUOTE]

Alberto Del Rio made his debuted what, 5 months ago? John Cena had been in WWE for 3 years. Big difference.

I'm glad Edge won his last match. Edge is certainly not on the same level as Michaels or Austin and no where near Flair (even though I think Edge is Awesome), so, they could afford to there last match, Edge, maybe yes it would've been an emotional goodbye, but, not as whislt he is champion.

 

[airvar]

Edge said himself he got further tests and an MRI AFTER wrestlemania.. He passed all his strength/ condition tests going in.. I assume they thought Edge would need to take time off after Extreme Rules, so they set up a ladder match for Alberto Del Rio to win, and "put edge out of commision" while he took time off, and at the same time further set up Christian to compete for the title against Del Rio while Edge took time off the Heal up..

Unfortenatly it seems the tests came back much, much worse than was expected, and instead of Edge having to take time off and wrap up his current story line they doctors told him he had to immediatly stop wrestling or risk spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair..

This whole retirment is rushed, this isn't like Flair , or Michaels (at WM 25).. This looked like it came as a complete shock to everyone.. I feel like they thought this was just another injury Edge would have to re-hab.. I don't think anyone thought That mania was edge's last match. If they thought it might have been they would have hyped it up MUCH differently then they did, they would have hyped up Edge's "Retirment" and devoted an entire Raw Main event to it.. It looks to me at least, like the WWE and Adam Copeland were blindsided by what the doctors report came back saying.

 

[neildittmar]

First off, I believe that Edge's retirement is 100% legit. The abruptness of the whole situation, especially in light of Edge's win at WM against Del Rio, as well as the emotions displayed by Edge himself tells the truth.

I am also of the opinion that Del Rio was "not ready" to win a major title at WM under normal circumstances. I sneered quite a bit when he won the Royal Rumble, actually. His star may be (slowly) on the rise, but he has been in WWE less than a year, and primarily on the B show at that. He's not that over and I personally think his appeal goes about as far as JBL's did. He has his supporters, but putting the world title on him (especially at this junction) would probably have been a mistake... if Edge was to continue on for the forseeable future.

Having said that, Edge knew his condition going into Mania. WWE also knew his condition going into Mania. This wasn't a freak accident or a shocking circumstance. Edge was hurt and everyone behind the scenes knew it. I'll go so far as to say it's very likely the chance of him retiring very soon after Mania was probably also known by everyone important and involved.

Yet, WWE figured that it would be best to knock Del Rio down a peg or several by letting Edge go over him at Mania, when they knew Edge was essentially on the outs. Perhaps I'm just too old school for the "new" WWE, but in the past that's just not how business was typically done.

Wrestling champions going out on their backs is as timeless as professional wrestling itself. By following this tried and true path, the promotion accomplishes a number of things and minimizes the loss. First and foremost, it transitions the championship to the "next in line", despite whether that person deserves it or not (ie; keeps the storylines moving). Despite my personal opinion of him, it's easy to see that WWE believes in Del Rio and thinks he'll be a major player sooner rather than later. So why hurt him by not only making his bout the opening contest, but have him lose to someone who is "hurt" and on his way out of active competition?

Second, it provides an explanation as to why you won't see the retiring individual on TV anymore. Usually, it is the aforementioned "next in line" that injured the retiree so badly that he can't continue anymore. In the case of Edge/Del Rio, this would've worked perfectly. Del Rio would've got massive heel heat for beating Edge so badly that he simply had no other choice but to quit. To that end, the WHC match at WM should have been somewhat of a squash for Del Rio... a violent, overly-aggressive, horrific squash with Christian literally pleading Del Rio to stop what he was doing. This would've (storyline) explained why Edge was out. It also would've helped Del Rio immensely and set up a feud that would've elevated Christian as "the guy who got revenge on the man who ended his friends career."

Because Edge/WWE decided to let him "go out on top", the product ultimately suffers. Edge may be a great guy who gave his personal health and well-being to the business, but what separates him from so many other top stars who did the exact same thing and in some cases, even moreso? What right does Edge have to such an accolade? Such an exception?

It's simply not right for a wrestling company to "reward" certain individuals like this at the expense of others specifically and the product in general, particularly when said individual will not be an active participant going forward. Perhaps that's just it... WWE is trying to completely get away from being a wrestling company, particularly anything related to the roots or legacy of the business. Maybe this whole Edge situation makes perfect sense after all.

 

[Okininja]

Ok so I really like Alberto Del Rio, and I don't really care for Edge. I really didn't like how their Wrestlemania match panned out, because I was expecting something else e.g. Del Rio winning or Christian turning. However, now that I hear that Edge is retiring I fully accept and agree with how the match went.

See there's a difference between HBK and Flairs retirement to Edges. There was a build to Flair's and HBK's Final match, most people knew that would be Flair's last match, and a decent amount of people felt it would be HBK's. They also both were matches against superstars who had something to do with each other. HBK and Flair has a well known backstage friendship and a lot of respect. Undertaker and HBK were both in the WWF/E about the same time and they both had the same amount of respect for the fans; they also only had 1 or 2 fueds back in their prime and there was so much build up. Stone Cold and the Rock while it may not have been known to many that it would be Austin's last mach; I can't remeber that far back. However it was against two of the biggest stars at that time. So basically their retirement match was against someone they had a lot of respect for, wasn't really passing the tourch because their opponent was already on the same level they were on, and they all had some history to them.

Edge vs Del Rio doesn't necessarily have the two aspects. I don't know how much Edge respects Del Rio, I don't see them as being on the same level of superstar status, and there really is no history between the two. However if Edge's match was against Christian I know they both have a tremendous amount of respect for each other and They have a ton of history. I don't know if you would consider them being on the same level but from WWE's viewpoint I don't think they do.

So I guess i'm just trying to say Austin, Flair, HBK had a different setting and Edge can't be in the same category with them in retirement matches. Also, Austin, Flair, and HBK didn't really put anyone over, sure Austin gave the Rock his first win against him at Wrestlemania but even without that Rock was one of the biggest stars in the WWE at the time.

I still feel Del Rio can gain a lot from this. He can still claim that he put Edge in retirement and that Edge's win at WM was a fluke because Christian was ringside and Edge should have lost because Del Rio beat him down so bad.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

According to reports they didn't know Edge was gonna be forced to retire and thought they had more time with it, if they knew WM27 was gonna be his last match I'm sure it would have been treated as such, not just a regular World Title match that was the first match on the card. I think they had an idea that Edge wasn't doing well but you are never gonna assume his career is over they probably just thought he could heal for a bit and then business as usual.

My opinion was Del Rio should have won regardless of Edge having to retire but then again knowing Edge has retired its not the worst thing in the world to have him retire as champion, I would say he definitely deserves it.

Del Rio should have won as it would have done a lot more for him then an Edge victory did for Edge but it has nothing to do with Edge retiring. Not only that, if they knew going into WM27 that it would be Edge's last match, they most likely would have thrown Christian into the match and have him become champ.

 

[Jimmy The Knife]

This idea that you're supposed to lose your final match and that's it is very flawed. Austin, Michaels, Taker all lost their final matches, correct. .

didn't Taker win at Wrestlemania?

and edge should've won at mania because he was set to retire due to injury and WWE knew it. a good way to go out for a great superstar

 

[FutureShocked]

i think it was the right thing 2 do. del rio can now start an angle where he sez that edge retired coz he was scared of him or sumfin like that. that edge went out with a bang was the right thing for everyone concerned. del rios not lost much steam and now it seems that Christain and del rio are going in2 a fued which will probably end with christain becoming the champ. gonna miss the rated r superstar tho.

THANK YOU EDGE! THANK YOU EDGE! THANK YOU EDGE!

 

[jacdnwarrior]

DelRio, hasn't really overwhelmed me with his ability to gain heat or in the ring. That being said, a win at WM would have been helpful to him. I think after Edge's years of service, his retaining his title at Wm was deserved. If they were going to make it a memorable one, have him face Christian and DelRio in a triple threat with Christian winning the title and they do a E. Guerrero and Benoit hug in the ring to close out the match.

I liked Edge, I will miss him greatly. With him gone, the WWE main event looks a little more bleaker.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

What right does Edge have to such an accolade? Such an exception?

While your response was very well written, it boils down to the same shitty response as everyone else. What right does he have, EVERY FUCKING RIGHT.

There's not a more respectable way to go out than on top, especially when the retirement is being forced upon you.

It's simply not right for a wrestling company to "reward" certain individuals like this at the expense of others specifically and the product in general, particularly when said individual will not be an active participant going forward.

Sorry, let me regain my composure here, "It's simply not right.... ... Let me try this again.

Pretentious much. Who are you to decide what is right and wrong in the wrestling business? You sound like an old timer stuck in the past, set in his ways, unwilling to accept the fact that things change over time.

Saying it's not right, couldn't be more wrong. It was the right, honorable thing to do. Edge isn't the only one capable of putting Del Rio over, not by a long shot; and rewarding Edge with a successful title defense at mania was the right/honorable/respectable thing to do. So cheers Vinny, you did right.