So now, people that have huge egos, screw people over for money, and arnt even that good themselves. Is considered an icon? Ric flair, is an icon, Dusty Rhodes is an icon, Hulk Hogan is an icon. Shawn Micheals is nothing more than an over rated pompous bafoon who used to be able to chain wrestle.
Shawn Michaels doesn't deserve place in Hall of Fame??
- Thread starter Milkyway!
- Start date
So now, people that have huge egos, screw people over for money, and arnt even that good themselves. Is considered an icon? Ric flair, is an icon, Dusty Rhodes is an icon, Hulk Hogan is an icon. Shawn Micheals is nothing more than an over rated pompous bafoon who used to be able to chain wrestle.
The Big Gunnzbowski
Damas y Caballeros...
I'm getting sick and tired of people bringing in personal lives and using it as a basis for somebody's WRESTLING life and/or abilities. EVERYBODY makes mistakes. EVERYBODY does something they regret. I got into it with Sly about this on an Eddie Guerrero thread... WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT HIS PAST!? His personal demons are just that "HIS...PERSONAL...DEMONS!" Not yours, not mine, HIS. He overcame them, he's a better person for it, and what he did outside of the ring has nothing to do with what we see on a weekly basis, which is what EVERY fan sees. Did anybody happen to mention him getting his ass kicked by a group of Marines outside of a nightclub? Does that have ANYTHING to do with him getting into the HoF? It sure as hell doesn't, so you'd be hard pressed to convince me that anything ELSE that happened outside the "WWE scope" should have ANY bearing on his being inducted into the HoF. Shawn Michaels has been wrestling in the WWE since 1988. The ONLY other superstar currently active and was present on the FIRST episode of RAW is The Undertaker. Nobody in the WWE today can boast that. Wrestling for 20 years in the spotlight, with fans as fickle as they are now, is HoF worthy in and of itself. Only a HANDFUL of people have come and gone in the last 20 years that we still remember. Not only has Shawn already earned his way into the Hof, but he will continue to show us week after week, why he IS in fact, "The Showstopper, The Main Event, and The Icon..."
It would be entirely diffrent, if his personal life didn't effect his In-ring life. That what you don't get about it. His enormous ego, in personal life, wouldn't let anyone look better than him, in his in-ring life. Which weighed down the main event on War Zone, greatly. So yes, Gunzz it does matter.
The Big Gunnzbowski
Damas y Caballeros...
But is the point of this thread not about him deserving to get into the hall of fame? WWE Brass obviously saw no problem with this. The fans have obviously overlooked it, for the most part. Everybody else seems to have moved to the here and now. I understand your point and I respect your opinion on this matter, but all things considered, he indeed does deserve a spot in the HoF. Shawn Michaels certainly isn't the first person in the industry to allow his ego to control his persona. Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan have BOTH done it. Yet you speak highly of them... Hogan wouldn't come back for a match in the WWE because he refuses to put anybody over... (and they won't pay his ridiculous price) Ric Flair, for years was an egotistical prick, but his wrestling persona called for it. Lets not forget what brought about all of the classic Ric Flair quotes... "To be the man, ya gotta beat the man." You know what they are... I mean, lets face it... Hogan only comes OUT of retirement to stroke his ego... As for Ric Flair, it's only a matter of time before he pops up again... I bet it happens during the current HBK/JBL storyline. But most of all, lets talk HHH. We all KNOW he's getting into the hall of fame. We all KNOW he has an ego. But hey...who needs an ego when you're knee deep in the bosses daughter? So, my point being, Shawn is hardly the worst person to ever step foot into the ring... and he will most certainly not be the worst who ever will step into it... My question is, what prompted you to single out HBK?
When it comes to the point at which he screws the company in a time of mayhem, then yes, it does effect his need to be in the HOF.
Ric Flair will never step foot back into a WWE ring. He and Vince's relationship went shot, when he went to the NWA. So your wrong on him. Same with Hogan now as well, with his CCW.
Of course hes not, but the few people who did, killed the entire company, and it shows now. (WcW, Nash, Hall, Hogan.) Two of these men, don't deserve it. While Hogan most certainly does. He was the single, reason WWE went nationwide. At that point in his career he had done everything for everyone, it was his turn to take a little.
Your wrong on Ric Flair as well. He always played his gimmick. And ALWAYS put people over. The 4 horsemen put people over, time after time.
HHH sells AMAZING right now, his merchandise flies. HHH is over with the croud, and knows when its time to put someone over. Via, Jeff Hardy. While he wouldn't drop the title to him, clean. That wasn't HHH's fualt, tho. If he would have dropped the title cleanly, it would make him look weak, and his merchandise wouldnt sell.
Simple, to create conversation. While I am expressing my opinion, i knew a lot would have to disagree. Its created great amounts of conversation. While ive gotten enough red rep to kill myself its also generated a decent share of green/gray green rep. The entire reason everyone of us are on this forum, is to conversate with other wrestling fans, that hopefully, know their stuff. So why not express my opinion that will create Lots, of conversation?
Interesting argument, but I couldnt help but notice KellyKelly, you have continued to ignore the NWO argument.
Please explain why Shawn was the reason the ratings of the WWF dropped, and not the NWO.
Easy. HBK's ego, wouldn't allow anyone to go over him. Which theres nothing wrong with that in few cases. Take HHH, hes over, hes selling, and hes staying on top, when he should be putting new guys over. But hes selling so much, and helps the Main Event so much, that it dosent matter if hes on top or not, due to his ego or not. In Shawn's case however, he wasn't selling, and wasn't making the Main Event look any better. His goal was to just trash everyone he came up agaisnt. Making them look like a total joke. Which with his in-ring technicallity, he could do. While, i admit Shawn has amazing in-ring skills, he just dosent draw. His time on top, wasn't top, at all. It was more, in the valley low, for the WWF. Shawn should have put people over, using that skill, help the company, not Shawn. It hurt the company, and made them lose the war for quite some time. Until Shawn left.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
I think your argument above misses out on key factor. Yes, while HBK was completely selfish, to say the least, Vince McMahon was the one in charge, not Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin beat Shawn because Vince wanted him to, and Vince decided the best time to do it. If he'd have wanted Shawn to step down before that, it would have happened whether Shawn liked it or not.
im sorry but hulk hogan is only in there because of his popularity as he definetly cant wrestle and shawn michaels is one of the best wrestlers ever and even the great ric flair think michaels is the best wrestler of all time, the only reason wcw was more popular in wwe was that it brought new exciting stuff, but it went out of buisness as it got stale, shawn michaels cant help it if the wwe creative staff dont create new and exciting storylines and the original dx is up there with the greatest stables of all time, imo michaels is very worthy of a place in the hof
The reason Hulk Hogan is in the HOF, is very obvious. He's made WWE/F millions, more than likely billions. Hulkamania, shirts still sell like wildfire to this day. (Maybe no where near what they used to, but i guarentee if Hulk made an appearance, theyd pick up the very next day.) Hulk is the SOLE reason, WWE/F is on national television, and now Europe/Parts of Asia, heck i wouldnt be suprised if little starving African children were watching WWE. (Yeah, I know, thats not true, but can't i joke a little??) All because, Hulk Hogan, Allowed WWE to jump the gun, take it to the next level. And bam, Now its all over the world.
HBK wasn't a key member of DX (old) =\ without X-pac/HHH I don't think DX would have made it, 1/4 as long. HBK only went well, because he and HHH were in Clique together. Like I've said earlier, HHH carried DX, old, and new.
Wrestlers get to choose what happens, during the match. Only the last 4-5 minutes, is told of them to do. Shawn chose, never to put anyone over. He could have easily made someone look good, and won the match himself. Hulk Hogan, did it every time he wrestled. I've heard people say "Hulk only knows two moves, body slam, leg drop." Thats not completely true, the croud LOVED to see Hulk, "Hulk up" and run wild upon his opponets after being completely destroyed. This isn't a Hulk thread, so I'll move on. My point is. HBK could have let his opponets get some moves in, put them over, so to speak. While still winning the match. Instead, he choose to utterly destroy everyone who ever stepped in the ring with him during that timeperiod.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Shawn Michaels makes everyone look good, and that is a fact. He can have a good match with pretty much any wrestler, and it is incredibly rare, if ever, you hear the words "HBK just had a bad match".
But this is also a stupid argument, it's not the argument I thought you were trying to make. He's the champion, he's supposed to look dominant, he's supposed to destroy people. There are wrestlers like that today who destroy their opponents. You're now trying to tell me he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF because he was too good at destroying people?
But this is also a stupid argument, it's not the argument I thought you were trying to make. He's the champion, he's supposed to look dominant, he's supposed to destroy people. There are wrestlers like that today who destroy their opponents. You're now trying to tell me he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF because he was too good at destroying people?
Because, he didn't destroy them in the sense, that makes himself look good. He destroyed them in sense, that your too trash for me to wrestle, will never be as good as me, you should just alt qq at life, destroying. Which isn't a good thing, at all. It weighed down the main event greatly. Even when Shawn couldn't sell, he couldn't accept that fact, and just kept on destroying them, (the trash way.) Which is why the ratings plummited, which is why WCW was able to cap on their main event ability. Which is why, Shawn, dosent deserve in the HOF. Because of his not-ability to be able to sell, and not being able to accept that fact, so he had to trash everyone. Screwing the company in the war.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Sounds like a good heel to me.
As I said above, if McMahon wanted a new champion, if McMahon wanted someone else to be on top, he'd have done it. In fact he did, with Steve Austin. It was McMahons decision to have a new champion, Shawn can do nothing about it. Hence why no, he wasn't ruining the Main Event.
WWE was just offering people a more exciting product, after a whikle, that product got boring, and people moved back to WWE. While I'm not trying to argue Shawn draws huge, as that would be false, you're piling way too much on him here.
shawn michaels was the main man in the original dx and he was the funniest and no doubt was a better wrestler than hhh, in the early years of dx triple h wasnt anywhere near of the level he was when hbk retired, hbk made dx and dx made hhh, and hbk never has a abad match, they said that the ladder match with razor ramon made razor as hbk was that good, hbk helped make austins career by having a good match at wrestlemania 14 and hbk made the hell in a cell, hbk has helped everything kick off with wwe and he is more important than hogan ever was
It would be a lot diffrent, if he was actually selling. Yeah? In the process, you can put someone over at the same time too.
But you can still put people over in the process.!
WCW*
Its like I said, Shawn, couldn't draw. Wore down the Main Event. As a 6 Year old child, I hated to see him wrestle. Rating failed, not just because of WCW putting out something a little new. They failed, because WWF had no main event at the time. All because, Shawn wouldn't step down, and take his rightful place as an upper-mid-carder.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
I'd really like you to point me to a few matches here, where he apparently destroys someone in a bad way?
I was the same age, and I LOVED seeing him wrestle. So entertaining. You need to once again, realise it isn't Shawn who decides when he 'steps down', it's Vince. Vince obviously felt Shawn was the best man for the job. When someone better came along, i.e. Stone Cold, Shawn DID step down. Why? Because he was told to. He probably bitched about it, but who cares? He did it.
The Big Gunnzbowski
Damas y Caballeros...
I'm sorry, KKIS, but to me it's starting to sound more and more like you're more a jaded fan than anything. I mean, what basis do you have to say that Shawn didn't "WANT" to step down? What proof do you have that the WWE wasn't behind everything that happened? I mean, it's not like Vince said, "Hey Shawn. You're done. I'm sending someone else out this week." and Shawn acted like a 3 year old and said, "NO!" and just walked out to the ring. You make it sound like Shawn Michaels just defied everybody and did what he wanted to. I mean, look at the infamous "Screwjob"... Vince planned it, Shawn did it. That's definitely gotta tell ya that Shawn was on tv every week because that's where the brass wanted him. Stop trying to make him sound like some egotistical, self serving, think for himself-er, who did everything he did in SPITE of anybody who was up and coming. Shawn Michaels has jobbed to some pretty shitty opponents in the last 10 years... Let's keep this open minded and not one-sided, shall we? Besides that, as a 6 year old...what and the HELL could you even know about ratings?!
Sorry, what? Michaels' lowest drawing title reign averaged a rating of 2.33. Psycho Sid's first WWF title reign averaged a 2.24, and his second reign averaged 2.28. Shawn Michaels' third WWF title run was on average, the highest rated in RAW history up until that point.
And who exactly had the potential to be in the main-event picture during that time? The WWF was lacking great wrestlers then, period.
Please explain why this matters.
Or this.
What? Why would how he achieved something matter? The fact is, he achieved it.
So, judging by your criteria, Bret Hart isn't Hall of Fame worthy, because when he became champion for the fifth time, ratings didn't increase. As you would say, eyes were glued upon the screen of WCW. Bret's fifth title reign, on average, drew worse than the Undertaker's before it, and worse than Shawn Michaels' after it.
Are you repeating this because ratings were pretty low in 1996? Ratings were just as low before he was champion.
Many, many people would disagree. Remember, when it comes to professional wrestling, it's what the majority of people think, not the minority.
What do you mean, "after death"? Are you referring to DVD sales? Because I'm pretty sure Shawn Michaels had several DVD's crack the top 10.
Yet Sid averaged the lowest ratings in the company.
How about you walk us through several of their matches where Bret carried him through the entire match?
Show me your sources. I have no reason to believe you otherwise. I mean, if you can show us how amazing HHH merchandise sells, you can show us how bad HBK merchandise sells, yes?
Did I just read this? Michaels was the main member of DX for the first year. Triple H was nothing more than a midcarder who couldn't get over on his own.
Show me where ratings "plummited" during Michaels' reign. If anything, TV rating were consistent with few little bumps throughout his first reign.
I think if you took a look at WCW's ratings, this is EXACTLY why the WWF's ratings weren't so great.
I don't like Shawn as much as the average Canadian. But that has been pounded into me for years, back when Shawn was disrespectful to Canada in a storyline. That made me hate him, that was his character. All that can be made about the Hart/Michaels situation needs to be thrown out the window when dealing with this.
Shawn Michaels. A good wrestler, a good mic man, and a man who can make WWE sell merchandise. Shawn deserves to be in the Hall of Fake...Fame more than many other people in there. For wrestlers from a WWE perspective, of course he does. He has been talked about in the WWE and by all of their fans for over a dozen years. I wouldn't rate his position in the Hall above someone like Hogan or Undertaker, when he does get in, but he is a top tier Hall of Famer. Multi time Champion, part of DX, one of the WWE's greatest creations, and a fan favorite for at least a few more years. Wrestling has been hard on him, but Shawn's legacy would never be forgotten by the WWE.
Shawn Michaels. A good wrestler, a good mic man, and a man who can make WWE sell merchandise. Shawn deserves to be in the Hall of Fake...Fame more than many other people in there. For wrestlers from a WWE perspective, of course he does. He has been talked about in the WWE and by all of their fans for over a dozen years. I wouldn't rate his position in the Hall above someone like Hogan or Undertaker, when he does get in, but he is a top tier Hall of Famer. Multi time Champion, part of DX, one of the WWE's greatest creations, and a fan favorite for at least a few more years. Wrestling has been hard on him, but Shawn's legacy would never be forgotten by the WWE.
Canadian Knight
Maple Leaf Warrior
Not right now and maybe never. Look he is an important wrestler that has been through it all. But why should we give him a place in the hall when he is a known backstabber, brown noser and thinks that he is better then everyone else. The people who get the most respect are those that fight all the way from the start and to the end. If he would dress with the others if he was champion then maybe. Then there is the fact of the matter of what he brings to the table. He likes to be called Mister Wrestlemania, and claims to be very religious. Then why is it he betrays his friends in the ring so easily (Like Cena before Wrestlemania when they fought). So basically he is saying that he believes in turning the other cheek but your friendship is not important.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
So you know the reason he should be in it, but still think he shouldn't?
What does this have to do with his skill as a wrestler? As a general statement here, too many people are using their personal hatred of Shawn, and his old personality as a reason for him not to be inducted.
He is better than everyone else, silly.
The people who get the most respect[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I thought the thread title was him getting into the HOF, not him being respected.
And what has Shawn done? He has done nothing but fight his way to the top, he even fought his way through what was supposed to be a career ending injury.
I think someone needs to learn the difference between real and storyline. I take my hat off to Shawn Michaels for making you believe it is real.
The only reason he should be in it, is that they have other failures in it. =\ Shawn goes in the WWE HoF we've established that. But he shouldn't.
Whats does the HoF have to do with the skill of a wrestler? So what, Shawn is technically sound, it dosen't sell. Unless your amazing, like Bret Hart.
He shouldn't be in it. He deserves to go down in history, as a technically sound wrestler. Hes hugely overrated. Just like Ric Flair. The only reason HBK is soooo loved, is because Mcmahon shoves that crap down the fans throat, all dang night.
No hes not. Bret Hart, is best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be. How can you say hes better than everyone else? His promos, suck. His ability to draw, sucks. His matches (now), suck. His matches back then, sucked. Okay, i went overboard, his matches back then were pretty decent.
Hes been a dead weight for say, some 12 years now. Thats what hes done.
Only lesbians wear hats. So I can't really see you wearing a hat.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Well, for a start, you changed the question mid way, as the topic being discussed at first was should he be in the WWE HOF, to which you've agreed he should be. End of debate.
Second of all, I would love for you to explain what about Shawns great reputation, amazing matches or unbelievable achievements makes him a failure.
The whole package of a wrestler - I'm not speaking technical here, Shawn is a good all-round wrestler.
Do you think for one second if HBK was a bad wrestler he'd be where he is today? Do you think McMahon would be as fond of Shawn if he wasn't good at his job?
A majority of this is your personal opinion, very subjective. Especially when a majority of fans disagree with you.
You haven't seen half of his matches from back then, for a start. You started watching, when? 2006?
Well this may be the most ridiculous of your statements.
To me this is the same argument we've seen repeated over and over. Is Shawn Micheals the best WWE wrestler ever? is he better than Bret? was he a good champion? is Batista a better wrestler than Shawn? was it Shawn that carried the feud or was it Jericho? e.t.c. We rag and bring up constant re opinions about Shawn over and over again it has become boring and sickening. Shawn may go down as the most popular wrestler in history and that's not because everyone loves him, he does have many haters, but because we all can't seem to stop talking about him over and over again. More discussion gets brought up about Shawn than anyone else here.
Haters put down your swords, lovers and HBK-aholic settle down a bit as well, Shawn would be against you all worshipping him. Shawn Micheals without question deserves HOF. He's accomplished enough in his career to earn it, he's been a focal point and an inspiration for many wrestlers that have came up after him, he's been a part of the most memorable and controversial matches in history. There are many wrestlers in the HOF who have had lesser careers than Shawn Micheals. Then yes, there is his attitudes, his backstage behaviours, politics and back stabbing, but so what. Many wrestlers before and after him have used politics to get there way, have stepped on others to further themselves and they too are still in the HOF and others will be inducted as well. Are we going to take Hogan out because he used politics to get what he wanted. Is HHH not going to get in because he stepped on everybody to get to the top. Of course not, so there is no reason why Micheals shouldn't be.
You people believe the HOF is some sacred place. It's not a big deal. A bunch of WWE bigwigs sit around a table and decide what great WWE legends are going to be inducted. Shawn, who's wrestled forever with the company and has held every level of belt, will undoubtably get in. Like him or not, Shawn is HOF bound.
Haters put down your swords, lovers and HBK-aholic settle down a bit as well, Shawn would be against you all worshipping him. Shawn Micheals without question deserves HOF. He's accomplished enough in his career to earn it, he's been a focal point and an inspiration for many wrestlers that have came up after him, he's been a part of the most memorable and controversial matches in history. There are many wrestlers in the HOF who have had lesser careers than Shawn Micheals. Then yes, there is his attitudes, his backstage behaviours, politics and back stabbing, but so what. Many wrestlers before and after him have used politics to get there way, have stepped on others to further themselves and they too are still in the HOF and others will be inducted as well. Are we going to take Hogan out because he used politics to get what he wanted. Is HHH not going to get in because he stepped on everybody to get to the top. Of course not, so there is no reason why Micheals shouldn't be.
You people believe the HOF is some sacred place. It's not a big deal. A bunch of WWE bigwigs sit around a table and decide what great WWE legends are going to be inducted. Shawn, who's wrestled forever with the company and has held every level of belt, will undoubtably get in. Like him or not, Shawn is HOF bound.
