Quran Burning in Florida.

[Macca]

Well now that crisis' averted, we can focus on the most dangerous terroristic group in the world.

THE PO-LICE.

 

[klunderbunker]

Er, the mosque that doesnt exist yet?

I wonder if people realzie there is a mosque in the pentagon about 20 yards away from were the plane crashed into it? People seem to get on with life just fine in that place.

Hello?

Or the Islamic prayer center that's closer to Ground Zero than the proposed one that's been in operation since the early 70s. I hate people sometimes. They make life so much more complicated.

 

[Hazardous]

NorCal, I agree. No one seems to talk about that at all.

And are you talking about the LAPD that killed that guy Macca?

 

[Macca]

Dude, have you seen the Rodney King video?

Every single one of those cops should have been executed by firing squad.

 

[Hazardous]

Oh that, yeah I agree. I thought you meant the new one that just happened where the cop shot some Latino guy dead because he had a knife. Huge uproar about it in Cali right now.

 

[klunderbunker]

I saw the video of that. Rather sad.

 

[Furyof5]

Protected by who though?

Its protected by the constitution. Thats it. The constitution is like chains and the government is like a monster, the government tries as hard as it can to break free by creating laws and doing things that obstruct the constitution, but it cant because they are unbreakable.

Who is standing up for this guy? No one. Even the Christian community is turning against him. Some are doubting if he actually is a Pastor.

I dont give a crap about him or his idiotic views. He can be absolutely wrong and everyone can hate him for them, but he still has the right to express them.

So what about the people who do not believe in "God" and think there isn't one?

They should be happy the people whom wrote it did believe in one because if they wrote "All rights are endowed by the government and are alienable at any time" we would be fucked.

Are they supposed to just think that someone said God said it, and wrote it down?

What the hell are you talking about? The constitution was written by the founding fathers, they believed rights came from a god. It was written they came from God so that they could not be misconstrued as government given and be taken away from the people and the government couldnt become a monarchy. Thats the entire point of the constitution and why it was written that way, so we never become what the founders fought against, an oppressive monarchy. Atheists are just as protected as anyone else.

Therefor, man made.

Not what the founders though or put into our constitutional foundations. You are totally missing the point. We are not given rights by our government because if they give them to us they can take them away. With no rights we are nothing more than enbonded slaves to a cruel machine. The government could silence anyone at any time without these rights, and if they disagreed with your views they could murder you and your family and raze your home to the ground. Does that sound like a country you would want to live in?

Anything man made can be destroyed. It may SAY they can not be taken away, but they have been. If they have been once, they can be again.

Thats why our constitution was written and made the way it was, so that they CANT take our rights away, and if they make an amendment which abridges these rights in any way we can REPEAL them.

Which is exactly the thing the Muslims at the Mosques around the US that are being attacked can say, yet some people say those Muslims don't have the same rights because this is "A Christian Nation"

We are not a "Christian Nation" we are a nation that was specifically founded on Judeo-Christian principals, and is predominantly Christin, but we are not a Christian Nation. One of the reasons the founders made it so that the government could not establish a state religion is so we could not become a theocracy, another is so that Government would not interfere with religion.

This is another reason why the first amendment is so important, if we didnt have it the government could storm churches and kill or arrest those in it if they didnt agree with their opinions. This may have been done in the past but every time it has been wrong and unconstitutional.

Slavery was not in the constitution, are you saying it's okay? No, of course not.

No, where did that come from? Many of the founders vehemently disagreed with Slavery, some tried to have it abolished. It states "All men are created equal" not just "All Anglo-Saxon slave owning Males", as a matter of fact Black people fought in the Revolutionary war alongside the founders, and were highly honored.

A lot of slavery in the early days of America was also indentured servants, which people would work for someone until they have paid off a debt. This happened ever since the the beginning of time. The courts were mostly responsible for some of the horrible laws passed involving slaves.

The founders also left this open to be changed in the future via an amendment, which it was. It was a pretty controversial thing back then and to my knowledge they couldnt come to a great consensus on it.

That is something we are told is "not allowed".

You mean by the general public? Yes, thus the amendment process they left for us.

Yes, they were wrong, but history has a way of repeating it's self.

And its up to us to see that it doesnt.

If something is not done BY the government about this Christian vs Muslim issue within the country, bad things are going to happen.

What should they do? For the most part Christians and Muslims are fine with one another, you mostly just hear about the radicals on the television. These people may be hateful but they are just practicing their beliefs, and as long as they dont go around physically attacking people they are protected. If you want to wipe you as with the Quran or the Tohra or the Bible then you can.

This is one of those times the gov SHOULD step in.

And what would you have them do? Storm churches of whom they dont agree? Arrest those whom are practicing their beliefs on their own properties? Shoot people in the town square? Come now. I dont know how they do it in Canada but in America we have our system set up to protect these people. And just because we dont agree with them we shouldnt silence them, thats facism. You want to live in Nazi Germany or WW2 Roosevelt Era America and be arrested for saying something they dont like?

I know you are bias in this issue,

Yes I sure am, Im bias towards freedom.

as you have obvious ties to the Christian religion. I understand that, and applaud your standing by your beliefs as well. I do not have ties to any faith. My parents sent me to Sunday School when I was little, and I didn't agree with some of the things I was being told.

Where did you get this from? This has nothing to do with Christianity, it has everything to do with freedom. If you didnt notice I defended the Muslims rights in building their mosque even if they are radicals, because theyre protected in doing so.

Such as saying that Dinosaurs didn't exist, and were a myth. Or that we are the only life in the universe, because God made us, and all life is with this planet. So I didn't go back. I have no ties,

What was the point of this whole thought? It seems like its meant to degrade Christianity or to at least minimize it. This has no place in this debate, the debate is about freedom of religion and speech, not about our personal preferences.

so I'm not bias to either side.

Im not either. I dont give a fuck if this is a man burning a bible while worshiping a poster of the flying spagetti monster. This is about the first amendment and freedom, not my own religion.

YES there is issues within the Muslim people. A lot of things done are questionable, but the same goes for the Christian people as well. Hell, it applies to all religions.

And Atheists as well, they have been responsible for HORRIBLE actions. But this doesnt reflect on all of them.

My main point though was that this one man, acting on what he feels is the right thing to do, and he's within his rights to do, is going to cause a LOT of unnecessary violence to OTHER innocent American civilians, as well as troops.

This is a bullshit excuse I dispelled earlier. The people overseas attack us because we are there. They would do it anyway, they just use religion as some sort of justification, but their actual motives are occupation.

And if Muslims attack people over this they are only proving what the man thought anyway, surely they can shake their heads and look down on such actions.

This isnt going to happen any more anyway so who cares?

The man running the Afghan war is saying don't do it! Troops over there are saying don't do it.

And people over here are screaming "PULL OUR TROOPS OUT NOW!" The only way people will die overseas is if our troops are occupying the nation in which the murderers live. If they leave there will be no more deaths of our soldiers, regardless of what one silly man does with a book he doesnt care for.

 

[Hazardous]

So I'm reading the Qur'an, and came across an interesting part.

" I am the nearest of all people to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary). The Prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

Hmm.. Maybe that guy in Florida should actually open it up, instead of just burning it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

So I'm reading the Qur'an, and came across an interesting part.

" I am the nearest of all people to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary). The Prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

Hmm.. Maybe that guy in Florida should actually open it up, instead of just burning it.

Yea, no shit. Ive read both. More than once.

People are fucking ******ed.

 

[Hazardous]

Fury, the one thing I wanted to point out was this line:

And people over here are screaming "PULL OUR TROOPS OUT NOW!" The only way people will die overseas is if our troops are occupying the nation in which the murderers live. If they leave there will be no more deaths of our soldiers, regardless of what one silly man does with a book he doesnt care for.

KB, NorCal, and myself had a talk about this like a week ago. Not everyone is screaming for the troops to come home. It's split on that one. Back from Iraq? Yes, but a full withdraw from Afghanistan? No. That is not the right course of actions.

 

[Furyof5]

So I'm reading the Qur'an, and came across an interesting part.

" I am the nearest of all people to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary). The Prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

Hmm.. Maybe that guy in Florida should actually open it up, instead of just burning it.

If he believes the bible and thinks the Quaran is a false doctrine why would he read and believe it?

Thats like saying if the Buddist book mentioned Jesus and Budda were brothers he would have to believe that.

 

[Furyof5]

KB, NorCal, and myself had a talk about this like a week ago. Not everyone is screaming for the troops to come home. It's split on that one. Back from Iraq? Yes, but a full withdraw from Afghanistan? No.

At what point did I say "everyone"? I didnt, I said "people".

That is not the right course of actions.

According to you its not, but I dont care if you think it is or not. What we are doing over there is unconstitutional to begin with. But weve already had this debate.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Unconstitutional? Please, I beg of you, break that one down for me?

 

[Hazardous]

What we are doing over there is unconstitutional to begin with. But weve already had this debate.

Well if it is taking place on their soil, and they do not have one, then how so? Are you saying that the attacks in NY should have gone Unpunished? The Afghan war is justified. That's why there were so many countries on board for it. I support the mission in Afghanistan 100%. Iraq? not so much.

 

[Furyof5]

Nation building was not amongst the deeds our Founders designed our country for. We went in there to get the terrorists, not to build a new nation and to stay and play peace keepers.

We are not meant to be the police of the world nor are we meant to go in and topple and build new nations just because they are at odds with us. Its bitten us in the ass in every case, Cuba, Iran. And it should not be happening any more.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Nation building was not amongst the deeds our Founders designed our country for. We went in there to get the terrorists, not to build a new nation and to stay and play peace keepers.We are not meant to be the police of the world nor are we meant to go in and topple and build new nations just because they are at odds with us. Its bitten us in the ass in every case, Cuba, Iran. And it should not be happening any more.

if you dont grasp how they go hand in hand, then its not even worth discussing with you.

 

[klunderbunker]

The federal government can say it's not nation building all it wants. Doesn't change what it really is.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The federal government can say it's not nation building all it wants. Doesn't change what it really is.

fucking right its nation building. Do you smash the spider, or exterminate the nest?

For fucks sake, I cant understand how people can act so dense about this shit, its truly amazing

 

[Furyof5]

if you dont grasp how they go hand in hand, then its not even worth discussing with you.

I do, but our original purpose was not to nation build. Building an entirely new nation and staying as long as we have is ridiculous and has left a big toll on is in the form of debt and lives lost.

I we leave today and they collapse its their fault, not ours. Weve given them years, is it our fault their government is corrupt and incapable of fending for itself after all of the time weve given them? No. And if we leave in god knows how long and they collapse, guess what? We just wasted all of our time and lives.

If its going to happen its going to happen. We are preventing the inevitable.

 

[Hazardous]

We blew it up. Now we are helping build it back. To blow up the shit, then just leave? How would that make us any better then the terrorists? Who cares what the founders didn't say. They didn't have to deal with this kind of thing, and if they had, I bet they would do the same. Are you against the US getting involved in WW2 as well? There's still troops in Germany and Japan you know. They stayed after and helped fix what was destroyed. Same thing that's going on now. If you give them what they did not have, such as Schools, Hospitals, Training bases for their police and Military, then you are taking away the reasons the Terrorists had control over them to begin with. You said earlier about me only knowing what the media says about it, well this is a time where you are in that boat. Unless you have been over there, you do not even begin to understand the positive impact we have had. When you can talk to the people there face to face, and hear them say how their lives have improved, and that they no longer fear the Taliban. That's how I know what we are doing is right. There is no argument in the world that can change my mind on that either.

I don't give a SHIT how much tax payer money is put into it. I'm paying for it too, and am glad to do so. We are doing right, and their people agree with that as well.

 

[Furyof5]

You people remind me of George W Bush in stating "The constitution is just a god damn piece of paper". Nation building is unconstitutional and against the founders wishes should not be done. Get over it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I do, but our original purpose was not to nation build. Building an entirely new nation and staying as long as we have is ridiculous and has left a big toll on is in the form of debt and lives lost.

I we leave today and they collapse its their fault, not ours. Weve given them years, is it our fault their government is corrupt and incapable of fending for itself after all of the time weve given them? No. And if we leave in god knows how long and they collapse, guess what? We just wasted all of our time and lives.

If its going to happen its going to happen. We are preventing the inevitable.

doesnt matter whose fault it is, what matters is if fucking assholes are the ones running the show, they gain the ability to do things such as crash planes into our buildings, or worse.

Picking up what I am putting down yet? If we empower them to govern their own shit, then they kill it there, at the source, themselves. We take care of it now, so that it doesnt become our problem again. Its not inevitable, if we make it not inevitable.

 

[Milkyway!]

NorCal's right on this one. If we don't rebuild the nation in some way, shape or form. Its why we had such troubles in Vietnam. We would go in, clean the Vietcong out of the area, leave, come back, and BAM Vietcong all over the place. All that's going to happen is the Taliban will retake everything AS SOON AS we leave.

Then what happens?

9/11 v 2.0.

 

[Hazardous]

You people remind me of George W Bush in stating "The constitution is just a god damn piece of paper". Nation building is unconstitutional and against the founders wishes should not be done. Get over it.

This aint 1776, this is 2010. We're over there, and are going to stay. Nothing is going to stop that. Get over it. Look around you, there is lots that's "unconstitutional" but you can't dwell on something written in the past. You're treating it like it's the bible or something. The constitution was made to be interpreted however we please. This is a time you are speaking on something you don't know as much about as you think. I don;t mean to sound like an ass about it, but it's true.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

uh, yea that is what I havent brought up, the constitution is INTENDED to be amended when need be, for the protection and betterment of the people under it. Fucks sake man.