Punk Off To a Horrible Start

[jellmoo]

I was so damn surprised and ecstatic when Kane won. I am really tired of the David vs Goliath matches that's been going on as of late, with the monster constantly losing.

Kane has been overly jobbed and used as filler so much as of late that he has lost his effectiveness as a monster heel, which I am hoping that the powers that be have noticed. Give him some wins and put him into a good feud and he can get that effectiveness back.

Smackdown is in extreme flux at the moment. They need to spend some time establishing who the top guys are. It's easy to see who the top heels are with guys like Edge and Chris Jericho hanging around. But try and spot the top faces:

Undertaker: Works a relaxed schedule and wasn't even featured at the PPV.

Then there is a big drop:

Jeff Hardy: WWE has never had all that much confidence in the guy (with good reason).
CM Punk: Has not been proven as a legit draw yet.
Rey Mysterio: Doesn't seem to be a main even go to guy anymore.

The power trio of faces, HHH, Cena and Batista are all over on Raw. Smackdown needs to establish their top guys. Punk likely lost on Sunday, when nothing was on the line to establish Kane as a threat, so that he can win at a later date when there is something at stake.

 

[tehblogger]

Oh man, how short the memory of the WWE Fan is today. Come on people, take your Gingko Biloba and join me on a short journey to last year.

Punk won the Money in the Bank just last year, and do any of you remember what happened about 2-3 weeks later?

He lost clean. To The Miz.

That briefcase is certainly no entitlement to invincibility. And if anything, this helps Kane get back as a legit threat on a new show, since he was within a second of defeating Punk at M.I.T.B. anyway. This puts over the depth of competition on Smackdown, and since Punk didn't lose the Briefcase, it doesn't bury him. Had Punk gone over Kane, nothing would have changed for Punk - he still has the case - but the freshly drafted Kane would have been completely buries.

Best choice, really.

I'm sorry, but this post is full of logical fallacies. Punk's horrible booking last year, which lead to a poor title reign devoid of credibility, is certainly no reason to book him as weakly again this year. Compare to Edge, when he had the briefcase, who had a terrific run before cashing it in against Cena. Sure, he was a heel, and cheating to win by whacking everybody over the head with the case, but he certainly beat a lot of big names. RVD wasn't booked at all badly, either. Kane is too old to do much good now. He should retire shortly. As Mr MITB, Punk is world-champion-presumptive and the fans know this. For his title reign to be credible when it comes, he should have the strongest booking of anyone apart from the two current world champs and maybe the ECW champion. Particularly since he is a face and should cash in a la RVD if he wants to avoid last year's mistakes.

 

[JGlass]

I agree with blogger. The issue here isn't that case should make Punk invincible, the issue is that he needs to look strong in order to make his (assumed) title reign more successful than last years. At the same time, I do see some logic in having Kane beat Punk, as it a) legitimizes Kane, meaning maybe he'll be worth something in the future and b) it makes Punks road to the championship even rougher, so if and when he wins the gold we'll be forced to look back to a time when he lost to Kane and how he is now the World Champion.

 

[finneycom1]

Dont you guys get it? IT'S NOT ALL OF CREATIVE'S FAULT FOR PUNKS BAD TITLE REIGN!!!! He simply is not ready yet. He is young, and for some reason, the creative minds at WWE keep pushing him down everyone's throat. I like Punk........... as an IC or Tag Champ. But, if you will see my other post from page two on this thread, he does not have what most, not all, but most champs have: the ability to have a good match with anybody he faces. Like Rock, Austin, Michaels, he lacks that and then some.

I know what you are saying: Well, Rock was young, Orton was young. Rock and Orton were entertaining in the ring by far, than Punk. Just give him some time. There is absolutely no way that Punk should already have a title run and 2 MITB wins in WWE career already. But, that's not saying he will never be there. Personally, I think he will reach that pennacle. Just not right now.

 

[jrumpi]

You know some thing , wwe just destroyed cm punk for me .
seriously making him lose to kane , WTF are you thinking wwe ?
seriously , you do not want punk to be a credible champion nor you want to turn him heel because of the kids !!. So why do you make him win 2 MITB , WHC,ECW belt, IC belt , Tag team belt just so he can keep losing and jobbing !! this makes no since I am rely sure this time CM punk will lose his mitb or his title match and for some reason in my opinion wwe is only keeping punk just so they can keep him away from TNA and ROH , I swear CM Punk is the next big thing wwe dropped the ball with him BIG TIME !!!

 

[jrumpi]

Dont you guys get it? IT'S NOT ALL OF CREATIVE'S FAULT FOR PUNKS BAD TITLE REIGN!!!! He simply is not ready yet. He is young, and for some reason, the creative minds at WWE keep pushing him down everyone's throat. I like Punk........... as an IC or Tag Champ. But, if you will see my other post from page two on this thread, he does not have what most, not all, but most champs have: the ability to have a good match with anybody he faces. Like Rock, Austin, Michaels, he lacks that and then some.

I know what you are saying: Well, Rock was young, Orton was young. Rock and Orton were entertaining in the ring by far, than Punk. Just give him some time. There is absolutely no way that Punk should already have a title run and 2 MITB wins in WWE career already. But, that's not saying he will never be there. Personally, I think he will reach that pennacle. Just not right now.

Let me ask you this seriously.1- did punk ever had the chance to prove him self ?
2-did they let punk go free on the mic ?
3-did they let him wrestle his style and not those crappy kicks that wwe wants him to do ?
THE rock if you remember the fans where chanting DIE ROCKY DIE !! the reason the rock got over is because he was in the right place in the right time where they let the wrestlers do there owen promo and gimmick thats when the rock got over when he started to do his owen shit and not what wwe wanted him to do ,same with stone cold , and as far as rko goes lol the only reason he was made to look good when he started is because of his daddy just like cody and ted who are worth less !!
So as far as it goes punk has it all the only thing that is keeping him down is wwe creative shit !! and to prove that .when punk lost his title remember , he was supposed to have a feud with RKO but what does wwe do ? They give it to batista !! so i think i just proved my point .

 

[seanskull92]

First let me remind you that Mr. Kennedy lost his MITB...yes, Edge won the title with it but Mr. K did lose it. My main point is CM Punk sucks...you have my guarantee I have watched wrestling for 15 years and if he becomes champion I will stop watching. He is boring, and there is no way a 220lb guy can beat Kane or Edge or anybody else...Kane deserves a shot more than Punk...I get angry at anyone who thinks he deserves it. I'd rather see Kofi Kingston or John Morrisson or hell Funaki haha

1. its obvious you know nothing of cm punk before wwe. he was great in roh, go watch some tapes. wwe just doesnt let him put on his style of match. they keep it to their "entertainment" style.

2. no way a 220 lb guy can beat kane, something tells me somewhere along the lines shawn michaels, steve austin or edge may have undertaken this feat over the past 15 years of your tenure as a wrestling fan.

3. i get angry at people who only know wwes version of wrestlers and make outlandish statements about them. remember dean douglas? yea he sucked, but you wouldnt go around saying shane douglas sucks based on that.

and also, kofi kingston? get real.

 

[Slyfox696]

1. its obvious you know nothing of cm punk before wwe. he was great in roh, go watch some tapes.

If you honestly believe that, then it is obvious you know nothing about professional wrestling.

CM Punk in ROH was terrible. Just because a couple hundred pimply faced geeks thought he could do "da colest movez" doesn't mean he was a good worker. CM Punk in the WWE is twice the worker he was in ROH.


Which is a shame because CM Punk in the WWE still sucks.

wwe just doesnt let him put on his style of match. they keep it to their "entertainment" style.

That's because his style of match in ROH sucked. It lacked any real storytelling or psychology, and generally relied on using different moves to pop the crowd, which is a sign of how dumb ROH audiences generally are, that they'll pop for moves. I swear if ROH would promote a wrestling training video, ROH fans would make it a best seller. Because "movez are da colest".

3. i get angry at people who only know wwes version of wrestlers and make outlandish statements about them.

I know the version of wrestler of most guys, and I can tell you that, nowadays, in America, the WWE is far and away the best quality of wrestling matches you will see.

remember dean douglas? yea he sucked, but you wouldnt go around saying shane douglas sucks based on that.

No, fortunately we have many other reasons that we can say that Shane Douglas sucks.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Let me ask you this seriously.1- did punk ever had the chance to prove him self ?
2-did they let punk go free on the mic ?
3-did they let him wrestle his style and not those crappy kicks that wwe wants him to do ?
THE rock if you remember the fans where chanting DIE ROCKY DIE !! the reason the rock got over is because he was in the right place in the right time where they let the wrestlers do there owen promo and gimmick thats when the rock got over when he started to do his owen shit and not what wwe wanted him to do ,same with stone cold , and as far as rko goes lol the only reason he was made to look good when he started is because of his daddy just like cody and ted who are worth less !!
So as far as it goes punk has it all the only thing that is keeping him down is wwe creative shit !! and to prove that .when punk lost his title remember , he was supposed to have a feud with RKO but what does wwe do ? They give it to batista !! so i think i just proved my point .

Punk's weak title reigns are not mostly creative's fault, it is his fault. They have given him every opportunity to succeed and he hasn't done anything. If you can't push the meter while as champion, you are never going to be champion. Besides Lesnar, who has had more accolades than Punk in the first two years of their WWE career? His IC Title reign was forgettable as was his tag team reign. You may call Cody and Ted worthless but right now they are better at what they're doing than Punk is. Punk still has lots of improvement to make and time will tell if he starts doing it.

 

[RatedR_HBK11]

Yeah, it's forgettable that CM Punk is a Triple Crown Champion...quite sad actually. Most wrestlers have to wait YEARS to get there.

 

[JGlass]

I agree that CM Punk's has had a crazy year, and that his rush to success is pretty ridiculous, but I fail to see how it's his fault. When he won the belt, he had to feud with JBL, a guy who could draw heel heat without a problem, but couldn't put on a match to save his life. They let Punk on the mic for a little bit, but he was stuck whining about how he's not a paper champion, and that he's going to prove it. Unfortunately, they didn't give him the chance to prove it. He beat JBL a couple times, nothing special. Then he beat Batista via DQ, which was stupid, and then before he had the chance to beat anyone else, he had it taken away from him. I think he has the potential to shine, but he didn't get the opportunity last time. I'm hoping WWE has something big planned for him that will let him this go-round.

 

[varney]

If you honestly believe that, then it is obvious you know nothing about professional wrestling.

CM Punk in ROH was terrible. Just because a couple hundred pimply faced geeks thought he could do "da colest movez" doesn't mean he was a good worker. CM Punk in the WWE is twice the worker he was in ROH.


Which is a shame because CM Punk in the WWE still sucks.

That's because his style of match in ROH sucked. It lacked any real storytelling or psychology, and generally relied on using different moves to pop the crowd, which is a sign of how dumb ROH audiences generally are, that they'll pop for moves. I swear if ROH would promote a wrestling training video, ROH fans would make it a best seller. Because "movez are da colest".

I know the version of wrestler of most guys, and I can tell you that, nowadays, in America, the WWE is far and away the best quality of wrestling matches you will see.

No, fortunately we have many other reasons that we can say that Shane Douglas sucks.

you sir know absolutely nothing, Punk was the only fucking guy in ROH at the time alone with Joe and Homicide that didn't do spotty moves
he was a mat based wrestler while rest of ROH was flying around (Sydal, Amazing Red, Styles, etc) Punk and Joe were the only ROH wrestlers that would consistently sell and tell stories in the ring (Joe Punk I II III, Punk Raven, even fucking Punk Strong right before he left)

He worked 98 times harder in ROH than WWE, this statement boggles my mind when you say the opposite, Punk would work a 60 Min Draw match on Friday and wrestle 45 mins on Saturday...what was his longest WWE match 11 minutes?

 

[jrumpi]

Punk's weak title reigns are not mostly creative's fault, it is his fault. They have given him every opportunity to succeed and he hasn't done anything. If you can't push the meter while as champion, you are never going to be champion. Besides Lesnar, who has had more accolades than Punk in the first two years of their WWE career? His IC Title reign was forgettable as was his tag team reign. You may call Cody and Ted worthless but right now they are better at what they're doing than Punk is. Punk still has lots of improvement to make and time will tell if he starts doing it.

You are missing the whole point ok let me put it this way , when punk 1st came to wwe go and watch some of his ecw work listen to the reaction he was getting it was loud as it gets , go watch worthless no heat no cheer nothing zero , and you wana blame punk for staleness lol, blame those idiot writhers who know nothing about wrestling go to this link and you will find out what iam saying (mcornette.com/Commentary.html). its the writhers that are the problem bunch of college / hollywood kids who know nothing about booking . they do what ever they are told , wwe does not want to take risks and go a head with punk or mvp or kinnedy they wana stay safe with hhh cena batista , thats why they are booking punk bad , and the only reason cody and ted are being booked ok is because of there daddies , look at it this way ok if cody or ted where normal guys they wont even make it to FCW !!

 

[mrstlouis]

you sir know absolutely nothing, Punk was the only fucking guy in ROH at the time alone with Joe and Homicide that didn't do spotty moves
he was a mat based wrestler while rest of ROH was flying around (Sydal, Amazing Red, Styles, etc) Punk and Joe were the only ROH wrestlers that would consistently sell and tell stories in the ring (Joe Punk I II III, Punk Raven, even fucking Punk Strong right before he left)

He worked 98 times harder in ROH than WWE, this statement boggles my mind when you say the opposite, Punk would work a 60 Min Draw match on Friday and wrestle 45 mins on Saturday...what was his longest WWE match 11 minutes?

no sir, you are wrong & slyfox696 is right . samoa joe & cm punk both suck they suck at real storytelling or psychology . joe is nothing but a spot monkey like cm punk.. I have been to ROH 2 times & have been watching since they started in 2002 before tna. cm punk was still spot money is ROH . ROH is still a spotfest fed. ROH's mat base style is still a indie spot monkey version of wrestling with no real storytelling or psychology to it unlike WWe or real old school wrestling from 80's & before who have real storytelling or psychology to it . cm punk is overated . cm punk will be the first to lose with the mitb. you fans have made me hate cm punk because you push him down our throats like his is some god of wrestling when he is not ever close at all . jack swagger is better then cm punk. WWe is going to stick it to chicago by having cm punk be the first to lose when cashing in the mitb at judgement day..EDge will be the only man to cash in mitb 2 times & win not cm punk. kane deserved to win over punk. you don't even know what ring psychology .joe & punk were the most overrated wrestlers of ROH ever.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Kane beat Punk cleanly, didn't get the briefcase, and thus, making our assumed future world champion look horribly horribly weak. This is not going to help Punk have a strong title reign, if that is indeed the direction in which he is headed.

Anyone have any idea why Punk was booked to lose to this Monster Jobber? Do you think this is more about Kane getting over, or what?

The fact of the matter is that Kane needed this victory far more than CM Punk needed the victory. I can understand why they had the match, being the last two to go for the Briefcase at Mania.

Although, there were really two choices.

1) Job Kane out to Punk ... with Kane who is already considered beyond a joke at this point due to all of the horrendous jobs he has done over the years. His Won/Loss Record these past years has been atrocious. And a Loss here would just dig him deeper and deeper in the grave, effectively making any more of his PPV matches also considered to be a joke.

or

2) Job Punk out to Kane ... thereby making your new contender for a Heavyweight Title to look somewhat bad.


However, the key is that we can allow several months to go by, and that loss on Punk's part will essentially be forgotten about.

I think the choice is pretty clear, as far as what I would have done. WWE decided to make the investment in Kane so future matches he is placed in will mean something. Additionally, he badly needed the win much more than Punk.

Also, we need to keep in mind, at mrstlouis pointed out, that the winner of the MITB isn't even considered to automatically be the next champion, anyway. The problem is that WWE has went to the well once too often, and fans expect the winner of the briefcase to win the title. That defeats the purpose of the entire thing. You are supposed to receive a CHANCE to win a Heavyweight Title. Not automatically be guaranteed to win it. I, for one, hope Punk fails at the opportunity to cash in the briefcase, but makes a great performance, still. That way, his effort will be praised, but fans get out of this conditioning to expect the MITB winner to win the title.

 

[JGlass]

Alright Sidious, I'll give you that one, you've convinced me.

Another interesting point you bring up is that the briefcase doesn't make the holder a guaranteed champion. Someone pointed out that if they make someone cash in the briefcase and lose, then it loses a lot of the prestige in holding it. To be honest, I used to be big on CM Punk, now he's just another face on the roster to me. I don't know if I really even want him to win the belt, but I think that the only way he should cash it in and lose is if he does it in a similar way to RVD. The whole, the guy who cashes it in never loses thing should be only if they cash it in after their opponent is exhausted (both Edge cash-ins and last year's Punk cash-in).

I also agree that if they are going to have him cash in and lose it, they should at least let him put on a good show and do a good job with the feud, or else the briefcase, as well as Punk's career, will be even more worthless.

 

[Slyfox696]

you sir know absolutely nothing,

This should be fun...

Punk was the only fucking guy in ROH at the time alone with Joe and Homicide that didn't do spotty moves

What the fuck is a spotty move? Do you even know what a "spot" is? I'm guessing from your post that you do not.

he was a mat based wrestler

Who gives a flying fuck? If I went out in my backyard and worked a mat based match, does that make me good, or non-spotty? Of course not.

Then again, you'd actually have to understand what a "spot" is first.

while rest of ROH was flying around (Sydal, Amazing Red, Styles, etc) Punk and Joe were the only ROH wrestlers that would consistently sell and tell stories in the ring (Joe Punk I II III, Punk Raven, even fucking Punk Strong right before he left)

LOL

Joe vs. Punk was AWFUL. The only match in that series that was even worth my time watching was Joe vs. Punk 3, and there are so many problem spots in that match it's ridiculous. But, Dave Meltzer thought they were good, so of course you do right?

Jesus Christ, if two guys laying around on a mat, for a couple minutes, getting up to make it obvious they are going to another spot, and then lie around for a few more minutes is your cup of tea, well so be it, but I prefer my wrestling to be good.

He worked 98 times harder in ROH than WWE

What does that say about Punk, when he works harder in front of 200 people than he does in front of 80,000 people? Then again, I don't really believe that's the case either.

this statement boggles my mind when you say the opposite, Punk would work a 60 Min Draw match on Friday and wrestle 45 mins on Saturday...what was his longest WWE match 11 minutes?

What the fuck does time have to do with anything? Especially when he's lying on the mat for half of it?

In the WWE, not only does he work Monday Night Raw (or Smackdown, whatever show he's on now), he also works several house shows every week, plus the big PPV show. For ROH, he'd work a weekend, maybe two.


The fact of the matter is that Punk sucked in ROH, and while he's better now, he still sucks in the WWE. And he would have gained NOTHING by beating a guy most consider a jobber anyways.

 

[Shocky]

More examples of how not to book your future stars, provided by the WWE. Seriously, the WWE has set enough of a track record in the under dog champion role to know that it never works. The WWE is the king of misbooking guys that borderline heavyweight to middle weight. Having punk win clean would in essence make Kane look weak, and yadda yadda.

The underdog champion storyline is a tried and true failure in wrestling, has been for a long time. It's just unfortunate that the booking end does this to Punk again, when the guy is clearly a damn fine in ring talent. He has adapted well to the WWE style, but I guess not having steroids flowing threw your veins is cause for suspicion in the E.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Punk may be off to a horrible start, but it's still better than last year. It's not as predictable. I never watched ROH when Fat Joe and Punk were wrestling there, but the mere fact that the WWE allows him to be showcased on TV means someone in the back thinks he's good enough to carry the ball for a few yards.

Think about it. Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne and CM Punk are the only ROH guys on the WWE roster and they're more than likely the two most talented wrestlers to come out of ROH. Samoa Joe is agile for a big man, but now, he's a much bigger man with a stupid gimmick.

Punk should lose to Kane. I watched some old Attitude/Post Attitude era wrestling with Kane involved and this man used to be someone dangerous. I used to have a little bit of genuine concern for the wrestler he was facing. Now, Kane's ran stale and needs his mask back. I know, I know. It's been taken off, WHY put it back on him? Well, Rey used to not have it in WCW and he put it back on in the WWE. Why can't Kane. Do an angle where someone takes Kane out, he stays off for a few months, he comes back with the mask an does damage to everyone in sight.

But enough about Kane. This is a Punk thread. Look, right now, it's hard to say where Punk goes from here. My guess is Kane feuds with him for the briefcase and isn't successful in getting it, then Punk moves on. Face it, the WWE WANTS Punk to be in the near main event role, so whether he's off to a bad start or not, he's not going anywhere. Hopefully, the WWE can come up with something original. They usually do.