What's happening with Punk?

[porterwithap]

I definitely must say that the way they used punk isn't right you have to admit that. Even though he is straight edge in real life all i feel like i'm watching is a character of a straight edge guy. I think they need to put more aspects into his style if you have ever met some of the straight edge people i've met with tattoos and such you'd probably shit your pants in fear. He needs to speed up some of his moves he feels really long and drawn out in the ring. But all in all he is solid in the ring for a guy who is never really given alot of time on PPV and TV lately. I think he is just missing a couple storylines and camera time , interactions with other wrestlers. I think a storyline with Kelly Kelly could be good on raw or even mickie james since they have a chemistry. It might be a cheesy way to get over but it will help freshen up his face run. I feel like they could do this until wrestlemania then if he wins MITB again he could focus on his MITB briefcase more and more turning heel on john cena or whoever is the champion of RAW. OH and he needs new music. Personal opinion there haha.

I don't think you guys on the forum give him his fair share of credit when i read your reviews and assumptions of him it just comes off really biased. I mean yes he hasn't wowed us in WWE but he's only been in the company two years and has accomplished more than guys like shelton benjamin and carlito and so on I think it's just a matter of time before we see what he is capable of.

before you say i'm a CM Punk lover blah blah i would rather see MVP win MITB to be honest but his build has been terrible as of late i think they ended his losing streak to early should have waited til around now with him qualifying and ending his streak. he would have been crazy over he's like so-so now. Christian dosn't need MITB his return is shit he's dead in the water if you ask me. Shelton can barely carry the U.S. title if you ask me he shouldn't be anywhere near a world title til he gets more fluent on the mic. Kane and Mark Henry are glorified jobbers thats all. Kofi is a joke he will never be anything but an upper mid card or ecw champion.

 

[RawIsRamsey]

I can't? Sure I can. I watch the shows, and very few people stand up and go nuts when he comes to the ring. That noise you hear is from his music.

Seriously, just actually pay attention sometime. You'll see what I mean.

Um, you must have been watching the wrong show when that pop happened on Monday, or a couple weeks ago in Chicago...nope, he's not over...nosirree...

Are you really going to try and argue that Punk is a bigger commodity right now in the WWE than JBL? Seriously?

Because I will tear you to shreds if that is your position.

Wow, not only are you not watching the same show the rest of us are, but you're also on some REALLY AWESOME drugs. CM Punk sells merch. JBL doesn't. CM Punk has a smaller downside guarantee. JBL gets special treatment to use Vince's jet to run back and forth to NYC. Punk is a top tier babyface who has YEARS left in him. JBL is a washed-up heel who's best years were behind an announce table. So, once again, who is the bigger commodity? The guy who will continue to put butts in the seats for years to come and move merch, or the guy who at any second can say "fuck this, I make enough on Wall Street" and leave the company?

PLEASE tear me to shreds, I begging ya.

Don't get me wrong, I love JBL's mic work...he's one of the best in the world at getting heat...but he won't be missed if he disappeared today.

Yes yes, it's always the fault of the booking, never the fault of the wrestler.

That's such horseshit. Booking is what you make of it, and CM Punk has been given every opportunity to be over with fans since he debuted. From undefeated streaks, tagging with DX, numerous World Titles, MITB...Punk couldn't have asked for a better start to his WWE career.

Yes, it is the fault of the booking. It's also the fault of the booking that Elijah Burke was released. It's the fault of the booking the Scotty Goldman got released. Sometimes creative has someone and just goes "idunno" and leaves the worker to either sink or swim on their own. Punk swam and swam. He hasn't made it to shore, but he's at least resting on a rock.

Oh, and go back to that Survivor Series match with DX and tell me who the most over guy was...oh yeah...just don't get where you're not seeing him as over...

Except, like I said, Punk doesn't have meaningful reigns because HE doesn't make them meaningful. We've already seen twice he is a poor draw as World Champion, and he's never had any good matches.

That's a Punk problem, not a WWE problem.

First off, the ECW Title is not a world championship...they have made that clear. So, he has only had ONE World Title reign. And guess what? ECW ratings were steady during his reign...matter of fact, they were slightly above what Swagger is drawing now.

With the World Title, Punk was always meant to be a transitional champion due to all the injuries at the time. When they found the RIGHT opportunity (multi-man match as to not job-out Punk), they took him out of the equation COMPLETELY, that way he still looks OK cause he never lost the title. Yes, Jericho beat him two weeks later to lock out the rematch, but the fact is Punk was never supposed to hold the belt this year in the first place...but the situation with Jeffykins happened, they gave the ball to Punk, and he ran with it, and did it well. Matter of fact I recall ratings being very good during his title reign, plus it provided one of the best mark-out moments since Lord Voldemort won the World Title at Mania XX.

It simply sounds like you're a jaded IWC sheep who's jumped on the "I hate CM Punk" bandwagon yet has nothing to back up the talk with. Punk has at LEAST 10 great years left in him, and he's just scratching the surface of his time in the WWE.

 

[porterwithap]

^^^^^

you speak words of wisdom and truth.
you got to love internet bandwagons most of the are mindless sheep who steal other peoples blind arguments and try to sound intelligent. If you hate punk then it has to be reasons outside his performance because he is a solid entertainer period.




IWC.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Punk...is an extremely interesting case. I really want to like this guy, I really do. I was a little bit miffed when he won the WHC, and I was kind of glad when his reign flopped (in my opinion, giving him the belt was a gamble that WWE creative took and instantly regretted). But, I thought this guy had had some good matches before his WHC reign, and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. So, I decided to judge how he performed after he lost the WHC as if he had never touched gold in the first place.

However, Punk was both underwhelming as a Tag and Intercontinental champion. I can go so far as to forgive his reign with Kofi Kingston, as WWE couldn't give two shits about their tag division, but I can't make excuses for Punk's reign as Intercontinental champion. Not only did this man win a tournament to become the number one contender for the Intercontinental belt (don't forget that this tournament afforded him a nice victory over Rey Mysterio), but he also got a pretty high-profile feud with William Regal, in which he had plenty of opportunities to make Regal look like his bitch. But, even with this tournament and feud, Punk failed to get massively over with the crowd. Furthermore, ever since his MITB win last year, he has only marginally become more popular.

So, I am going to have to agree, for the most part, with Slyfox696. Punk's tepid reigns as the World Heavyweight champion and as a Tag champion with Kofi Kingston can be blamed on creative. However, Punk's similarly received reign as Intercontinental champion is totally on him. Thus, I see Punk's failure to get over as a Punk problem, not a WWE creative problem.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I can't? Sure I can. I watch the shows, and very few people stand up and go nuts when he comes to the ring. That noise you hear is from his music.

Seriously, just actually pay attention sometime. You'll see what I mean.

Ok i will, but i suggesst you do the same, he get's big pops dude, no doubt.

Are you really going to try and argue that Punk is a bigger commodity right now in the WWE than JBL? Seriously?

Because I will tear you to shreds if that is your position.

As RawIsRamsey already pointed out just because JBL has been with the company longer does not make him a bigger comodity. CM Punk has a good possibly 10yrs left, sells alot of merch and (as much as you'll argue with me) has solid ring skills. He doesnt do drugs, smoke or drink so is hardly a risk and is a loyal and hard worker. JBL has terrible ring skills, enough money to retire at the drop of a hat and an arrogant attitude. Styles tought JBL a well earned lesson for his arrogance.

Yes yes, it's always the fault of the booking, never the fault of the wrestler.

That's such horseshit. Booking is what you make of it, and CM Punk has been given every opportunity to be over with fans since he debuted. From undefeated streaks, tagging with DX, numerous World Titles, MITB...Punk couldn't have asked for a better start to his WWE career.

Ok. WHC, I'll give you that, he may not have been ready for that. The main thing that's really pissing me off about his booking is the Tag and IC titles. The booking for both these reigns was shit. If Kofi & Punk were having tag matches and maybe a few promos and they still failed then yeah, maybe it would come down to Punk not being decent enough to hold the titles but it was booked like SHIT. The IC reign was booked pretty good in the beginning i thought. I thought finally, Punk is getting a decent chance at a good title reign where he has been built up through the tourney, then an ok fued with Regal, finally wins it and then once again, creative keep him backstage, dont't do anything with the championship, no promos, then suddenly JBL has a title shot and wins, Now that's horseshit.

We've already seen twice he is a poor draw as World Champion, and he's never had any good matches.

That's a Punk problem, not a WWE problem.

Are you serious. Ratings were fine while he was champ, maybe started dropping towards the end of the WHC but that reign i admit, may have fallen on Punk for not working as well as it should, but the tag and IC reigns failing fall on the booking, no horseshit.

 

[Kamaria]

Punk...is an extremely interesting case. I really want to like this guy, I really do. I was a little bit miffed when he won the WHC, and I was kind of glad when his reign flopped (in my opinion, giving him the belt was a gamble that WWE creative took and instantly regretted).

If his reign is considered 'flopped', it's nobody but WWE Creative's fault. They continuously booked him wrong and didn't make him the centerpiece of the show like they should have been, and he shouldn't have been getting laid out multiple weeks in a row. Not to mention he should have had more mic time and more freedom in his promos...the way WWE scripts promos today as you can see with the 'leaked' script is very limiting.

However, Punk was both underwhelming as a Tag and Intercontinental champion. I can go so far as to forgive his reign with Kofi Kingston, as WWE couldn't give two shits about their tag division, but I can't make excuses for Punk's reign as Intercontinental champion. Not only did this man win a tournament to become the number one contender for the Intercontinental belt (don't forget that this tournament afforded him a nice victory over Rey Mysterio), but he also got a pretty high-profile feud with William Regal, in which he had plenty of opportunities to make Regal look like his bitch. But, even with this tournament and feud, Punk failed to get massively over with the crowd. Furthermore, ever since his MITB win last year, he has only marginally become more popular.

You can't expect him to get Cena or Austin-level pops already. In my opinion, CM Punk is already one of the most over guys on the roster, or do you not notice the crowd chants? He isn't main event level, but he could get there.

And you say he 'failed', like it's his fault. Again, the feud he had with Regal was crap. No promos, and lazy booking (2 matches in a row that end in a DQ leading to a No DQ match? Instead of making us sit through two non-finishes, that could have been better spent with promo wars, brawling, anything! Check out Stone Cold's feud with Rocky Maivia/The Rock over the IC title starting in late 1997. I'll give that both guys were tremendous, but they were allowed to showcase themselves because of the great, creative booking. Punk and Regal were not given the opportunity to get this feud over other than what creative allowed them to do. They can only do what the storyline tells them to, and unlike '97, the wrestlers have very little input on the feuds anymore.

So, I am going to have to agree, for the most part, with Slyfox696. Punk's tepid reigns as the World Heavyweight champion and as a Tag champion with Kofi Kingston can be blamed on creative. However, Punk's similarly received reign as Intercontinental champion is totally on him. Thus, I see Punk's failure to get over as a Punk problem, not a WWE creative problem.

Again, Punk hasn't failed to get over. He is still almost universally cheered by the crowd in my view, and as I've stated above, Punk only had what creative gave him to work with. If I recall, he only had TWO defenses after beating Regal. Against Regal, and against JBL, which he lost. (correct me if I'm wrong). They failed to showcase their secondary title holder on television properly. This clearly cannot be blamed on Punk.

If WWE creative would focus on him more instead of another Vickie Guerrero/Edge cheating storyline and other crap like that, then maybe Punk would be a star already. But until they actually book him right and give him a real chance to shine, that won't happen.

 

[Slyfox696]

I definitely must say that the way they used punk isn't right you have to admit that.

I agree, his booking has been FAR too generous for someone who is as mediocre as he is.

I think they need to put more aspects into his style if you have ever met some of the straight edge people i've met with tattoos and such you'd probably shit your pants in fear.

Why would I be scared of a guy smaller than I am?

He needs to speed up some of his moves he feels really long and drawn out in the ring.

That's because he sucks.

OH and he needs new music. Personal opinion there haha.

I agree with this.

I don't think you guys on the forum give him his fair share of credit when i read your reviews and assumptions of him it just comes off really biased.

I've been watching the man work for years, and I feel I'm pretty right on in my assessment.

I mean yes he hasn't wowed us in WWE but he's only been in the company two years and has accomplished more than guys like shelton benjamin and carlito and so on I think it's just a matter of time before we see what he is capable of.

he's been given more, and proven less. What's the point?

Um, you must have been watching the wrong show when that pop happened on Monday, or a couple weeks ago in Chicago...nope, he's not over...nosirree...

Wait, he got a good reaction in his hometown? Well, I'll be damned! Let's make him President already!

Are you kidding me with this?

Wow, not only are you not watching the same show the rest of us are, but you're also on some REALLY AWESOME drugs.

I don't do drugs, thanks.

CM Punk sells merch.

So does Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista etc., and they all do it better. The WWE doesn't need a low level face, they need more top heels.

JBL is a top heel. CM Punk is a low level face. Easy enough.

CM Punk has a smaller downside guarantee. JBL gets special treatment to use Vince's jet to run back and forth to NYC.

Exactly. Why? Because JBL is worthy of it and Punk is not.

Punk is a top tier babyface who has YEARS left in him.

Top tier? Says who? He's no where close to a Cena or HBK or Undertaker, etc.

JBL is a washed-up heel who's best years were behind an announce table.

And you want me to take you seriously after this?

So, once again, who is the bigger commodity?

JBL, like I said.

The guy who will continue to put butts in the seats for years to come and move merch, or the guy who at any second can say "fuck this, I make enough on Wall Street" and leave the company?

Punk can't leave for Wall Street, and Punk's never put butts in the seats. So, I'm not sure what to say here.

PLEASE tear me to shreds, I begging ya.

You're welcome.

Don't get me wrong, I love JBL's mic work...he's one of the best in the world at getting heat...but he won't be missed if he disappeared today.

And neither will Punk, but at least JBL brings something to the table...guys like Punk are a dime a dozen.

Yes, it is the fault of the booking.

How, because they made him look strong as possible, and he did nothing with it?

It's also the fault of the booking that Elijah Burke was released. It's the fault of the booking the Scotty Goldman got released. Sometimes creative has someone and just goes "idunno" and leaves the worker to either sink or swim on their own.

Or, maybe, creative only cares about the people that can actually do the things they want, and those guys couldn't.

Punk swam and swam. He hasn't made it to shore, but he's at least resting on a rock.

If by "swam", you mean was put on a first class luxury liner by creative, only to see Punk jump overboard and puncture his own life raft with a machete, then yes, I would agree.

Oh, and go back to that Survivor Series match with DX and tell me who the most over guy was...oh yeah...just don't get where you're not seeing him as over...

That was two years ago. Look how well he's done since then...

First off, the ECW Title is not a world championship...they have made that clear.

The fuck it's not. Who made it clear? Certainly not the WWE.

So, he has only had ONE World Title reign.

No, two.

And guess what? ECW ratings were steady during his reign...matter of fact, they were slightly above what Swagger is drawing now.

If by "steady" you mean dropped several tenths of a point from the beginning to the end of his reign, then you'd be corect.

With the World Title, Punk was always meant to be a transitional champion due to all the injuries at the time.

Bullshit. You don't mean to make a guy a transitional champ and let him hold the belt for several months. The fact is that Punk couldn't draw, ratings went down, so they took the belt off him.

When they found the RIGHT opportunity (multi-man match as to not job-out Punk), they took him out of the equation COMPLETELY, that way he still looks OK cause he never lost the title.

Exactly. And people STILL try to say that creative hasn't done anything for him.

they gave the ball to Punk, and he ran with it, and did it well.

So well that ratings dropped, and he couldn't even main-event his own Raw TV show.

Matter of fact I recall ratings being very good during his title reign,

You recall wrong. When Punk was champion, ratings dropped from the 3.5 they were carrying after the draft, all the way down to a 2.8 and 2.9 in the last two weeks of his reign.

You recall very wrong.

It simply sounds like you're a jaded IWC sheep who's jumped on the "I hate CM Punk" bandwagon yet has nothing to back up the talk with.

Really? Being a midcarder who was given every opportunity to succeed, only to fail miserably in both drawing and putting on good matches isn't something to back it up with?

Bullshit. People used to complain about the treatment Cena got, being put in the main-event, winning all the time etc...and yet Punk got BETTER treatment than that, and couldn't do half of what Cena did with it.

Right now, Punk sucks. That's not to say that he can't eventually get better, but right now he sucks. He's not had ONE good match in his entire time, both World title reigns were failures, he doesn't get good pops, and the amount of support from booking he's gotten has been ridiculously good for someone who has not produced.

^^^^^

you speak words of wisdom and truth.
you got to love internet bandwagons most of the are mindless sheep who steal other peoples blind arguments and try to sound intelligent.

The irony comes from the fact that your entire post here is doing the EXACT same thing.

At least I'm willing to present an argument and use facts to back it up. You just basically made a useless post agreeing with someone else who has fuck all for facts.

This, is what we call in the Internetz world, an epic fail.

 

[Slyfox696]

Ok i will, but i suggesst you do the same, he get's big pops dude, no doubt.

No, he doesn't. I look every week for it, and it's shit. What happens is that when his music comes on, it sounds like the crowd is going nuts, so I always look at the crowd. And most of the time they are just sitting on their hands, and then I realize it's the music that sounds like he's getting pops.

As RawIsRamsey already pointed out just because JBL has been with the company longer does not make him a bigger comodity.

No, but the fact that JBL actually brings something to the table that makes him important does.

What does Punk bring to the table? There are NUMEROUS superstars on Raw more over as a face, guys who work better matches, guys who sell more merch, and guys who are bigger draws. What does Punk bring to the table?

JBL, on the other hand, is an instant heat magnet. Hell, the guy was getting SHAWN FUCKIN' MICHAELS booed, just because HBK was associating with him. That's fuckin' epic heat.

CM Punk has a good possibly 10yrs left, sells alot of merch and (as much as you'll argue with me) has solid ring skills.

Where are these solid ring skills? I've been hearing about them since back in his flea market indy days, and I've yet to see ANYTHING that makes him stand out. Hell, the guy had to steal virtually his entire moveset from various workers in Japan, and he doesn't even do them as convincingly. Where are these great skills.

Are you serious. Ratings were fine while he was champ, maybe started dropping towards the end of the WHC but that reign i admit, may have fallen on Punk for not working as well as it should, but the tag and IC reigns failing fall on the booking, no horseshit.

No, ratings weren't fine when Punk was a champ. Ratings took a NOSE dive with Punk as a champ. Both times.

If his reign is considered 'flopped', it's nobody but WWE Creative's fault.

Why? Because they gave him incredibly favorable booking? Because Punk sucks?

Punk is to blame, not the WWE.

They continuously booked him wrong and didn't make him the centerpiece of the show like they should have been

He wasn't the centerpiece of the show, because every show that he WAS the centerpiece of, drew miserably. I remember two of the times he was advertised as the main-event, something like 200,000 people turned off Raw.

Not to mention he should have had more mic time and more freedom in his promos...the way WWE scripts promos today as you can see with the 'leaked' script is very limiting.

Yes, but has does that make him any different from ANYONE else in the company, bar Triple H? EVERY one else has scripted promos, but the other guys deliver them so much better. Using that as an excuse is fucking ridiculous, because he's playing by the same rules everyone else is, and it doesn't seem to affect them.

In my opinion, CM Punk is already one of the most over guys on the roster, or do you not notice the crowd chants? He isn't main event level, but he could get there.

Your opinion is wrong. Punk would be lucky to crack the top 15 or 20 in terms of total overness.

And you say he 'failed', like it's his fault.

It was.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

If his reign is considered 'flopped', it's nobody but WWE Creative's fault. They continuously booked him wrong and didn't make him the centerpiece of the show like they should have been, and he shouldn't have been getting laid out multiple weeks in a row. Not to mention he should have had more mic time and more freedom in his promos...the way WWE scripts promos today as you can see with the 'leaked' script is very limiting.

What reign are we talking about here? If we are talking about his WHC reign, then I agree with you that that's on creative. However, it is my argument that his horrible IC reign is not on creative.

You can't expect him to get Cena or Austin-level pops already. In my opinion, CM Punk is already one of the most over guys on the roster, or do you not notice the crowd chants? He isn't main event level, but he could get there.

Don't get me wrong; Punk gets a decent reaction. However, it seems like people get pumped for the first few seconds of his theme music and then quiet down in unison as they realize that it's only CM Punk. Furthermore, you are right in that one shouldn't expect him to get Austin-level pops. However, WWE let Punk become a triple crowner in less than a year's time. Someone who gets that privilege and in such record time should be more over than Punk currently is.

And you say he 'failed', like it's his fault. Again, the feud he had with Regal was crap. No promos, and lazy booking (2 matches in a row that end in a DQ leading to a No DQ match? Instead of making us sit through two non-finishes, that could have been better spent with promo wars, brawling, anything! Check out Stone Cold's feud with Rocky Maivia/The Rock over the IC title starting in late 1997. I'll give that both guys were tremendous, but they were allowed to showcase themselves because of the great, creative booking. Punk and Regal were not given the opportunity to get this feud over other than what creative allowed them to do. They can only do what the storyline tells them to, and unlike '97, the wrestlers have very little input on the feuds anymore.

I don't see this booking as lazy; rather, I see it as generous, since, instead of giving Punk the belt outright in his first match with Regal, WWE creative more than likely extended the feud so that Punk could have more air time to showcase his alleged wrestling talent.

Again, Punk hasn't failed to get over. He is still almost universally cheered by the crowd in my view, and as I've stated above, Punk only had what creative gave him to work with. If I recall, he only had TWO defenses after beating Regal. Against Regal, and against JBL, which he lost. (correct me if I'm wrong). They failed to showcase their secondary title holder on television properly. This clearly cannot be blamed on Punk.

If WWE creative would focus on him more instead of another Vickie Guerrero/Edge cheating storyline and other crap like that, then maybe Punk would be a star already. But until they actually book him right and give him a real chance to shine, that won't happen.

As I stated in my previous post, Punk is fairly over. However, given all that has happened within a year's time, he should be much more over than he currently is. And, your time in WWE is what you make of it. WWE creative gave Punk all the resources necessary to establish himself as a WWE main-eventer. Did they throw some curveballs his way? Yes. Did they book him in a manner unlike previous champions? Yes. Did Punk passively accept what creative gave him without thinking about how he could tweak it to become more engaging to the audience? More than likely, yes.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

No, but the fact that JBL actually brings something to the table that makes him important does.

What does JBL bring to the table, a shitty move set? The same im better than you speach? Seriously the guy is past his time.

JBL, on the other hand, is an instant heat magnet. Hell, the guy was getting SHAWN FUCKIN' MICHAELS booed, just because HBK was associating with him. That's fuckin' epic heat.

Oh yeah, that heat Shawn got was really epic. There is a difference between getting heat for playing a heel and heat for being a wanker. Edge get's heat but people respect Adam Copeland. JBL doesnt get heat for his character, it's him who people dislike.

Yes, but has does that make him any different from ANYONE else in the company, bar Triple H? EVERY one else has scripted promos, but the other guys deliver them so much better. Using that as an excuse is fucking ridiculous, because he's playing by the same rules everyone else is, and it doesn't seem to affect them.

You have just contradicted yourself. I said that if Punk had done promos (I'm referring to the IC reign) and had sufficient air time and it still failed then yes, Punk is to blame. When was the last promo you saw him do, fucking ages ago. Punk didnt get any promo chances, thus he looks like he fails at them, it's bullshit.

Your opinion is wrong.

Oh, well done, an "opinion" is wrong. Nice.

Punk would be lucky to crack the top 15 or 20 in terms of total overness.

Please list the 15 or 20 stars more over than Punk, you will struggle. There would only be Cena, HHH, Michaels, Jeff Hardy and Undertaker that would top him. Although you seem to think that he gets next to no cheers so we'll see if you can name even 10 that are more over than him, good luck.

 

[Arrynboot]

I think they took the belt off of punk because he's about to become the first ever 2 time money in the bank winner, just wait, as shit as wwe creative is I believe they may finally have something planned for him

 

[JuviJuiceIsLoose]

I think they took the belt off of punk because he's about to become the first ever 2 time money in the bank winner, just wait, as shit as wwe creative is I believe they may finally have something planned for him

I think the Money in the Bank Winner is gonna come from Smackdown. Either MVP or Shelton Benjamin. There are rumors that this is gonna be the first year that the person who cashes in Money in The Bank, doesn't go on to win the Title.

As far as C.M. Punk goes. I think it's stupid to constantly argue over what's been worse, the Booking of Punk, or C.M. Punk himself because he's gonna be around a long time.

Me personally, I don't think Creative did him any favors during his title reigns. Kinda like the way Bret Hart was booked after he lost the WWF Title. They were putting him in fueds with a way past his prime Jerry Lawler. Wrestling Dentists, and Wrestling Clowns.

To Punk's fans and detractors I say chill out. He ain't going anywhere. He'll have plenty more shitty fueds along with potential classics in his future.

 

[crazy88]

As I read all the posts, one thought kept screaming in my head: Punk was not the guy creative wanted to cash in MiTB. And as a result, I'm not certain creative was 100% commited to Punk. They gave him two limp feuds to go on as the champ, and then pull the belt off of him without him even being in a match! Come on, I know that Jericho was the guy to let run the ball until Vince's beloved John Cena returned from injury, but come on, to me that is kicking dirt in Punk's face, which is something he does not deserve.
But Punk is still young guy at age 30. Look at how long a lot of current/former champs took to climb to WHC/WWE title. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Edge, Jeff/Matt Hardy, Eddie Guerrerro all took years to make to the top level. It's simply just to early to call CM Punk a flop. Dewayne Johnson was a flop as Rocky Maivia, Steve Austin was a flop as the Ringmaster,and Kevin Nash was a flop as Oz AND Vinnie Vegas! Just imagine if they had been given up on after those missteps.
That said, there are things that I feel that Punk needs to do before going back into WWE/WHC picture. Such as:
1. Punk needs a longterm, red hot, showcase feud against someone who is better than he is. It's a time tested axiom in this business that you get better by getting ring with someone who can teach you the ropes. Regal fits the bill in the skill arena, but he's not a big enough name. A protracted feud with the likes of Jericho or Edge would do a lot to raise Punk's stature.(Provided that he can show that he can hold up.)
2. Show us the mic skills! Punk was great in ROH as on the mic as a heel champ.( His promo about signing his WWE contract on the ROH belt was great!) Open up, extol some of the virtues of a straightedge lifestyle, etc.
3. A new finisher. The GTS doesn't cut it. I've seen some of the moves he unleashed in ROH, certainly one of those can translate to the WWE.

 

[RawIsRamsey]

Wait, he got a good reaction in his hometown? Well, I'll be damned! Let's make him President already!

Are you kidding me with this?

Testament to his popularity...Cena gets a SPLIT reaction in his OWN HOMETOWN. As do most Canadians when the go back up north. Fact is, Punk gets a reaction...turn up the volume on your TV or your hearing aid or whatever it is you choose to listen with, because you're missing out.

I don't do drugs, thanks.

Well good for fucking you. See, you and Punk DO have something in common.

So does Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista etc., and they all do it better. The WWE doesn't need a low level face, they need more top heels.

Well lookit there! He just named off all the MAIN EVENT BABYFACES! Wow, the EXACT guys I claimed were above Punk! Just cause Punk isn't a main eventer doesn't make him lower on the totem pole...shit, how long were the Hardy's outselling everyone's merch yet were still just a tag team? That's why there's a heiarchy...not everyone can be main eventers...Punk is not at that level right now, but he has the ability to be. And more heels is NOT what they need, especially on RAW where they have Orton, Jericho, soon-to-be Edge, hell, Santino is in a better position than JBL right now (cause Santino sells merch and actually gets a reaction other than "holy fuck, here comes fatty"). JBL is approaching X-Pac level heat, and that's not the good kind...it's the "go the fuck away and never come back" kind.

JBL is a top heel. CM Punk is a low level face. Easy enough.

Jericho, Orton, Edge, hell, Big Show> JBL right now. They don't need him and he's merely a drain on funds.

Exactly. Why? Because JBL is worthy of it and Punk is not.

Nope, he got that deal back when he was an announcer, because at the time, he was doing fantastic work and Vince wanted to keep him on in that regard, so he allowed JBL to take the company jet from his office in NYC to the arena and back so he could work on Wednesday. Hardly makes JBL an outstanding company man if he needs to drain one companies resources to go work for another one...and Vince is doing this for someone who, in all honesty, has enough money for his own jet. Now whether he gets the same treatment still, dunno, since JBL is an active wrestler again, but the fact is, he got the treatment as an announcer...not as a wrestler.

Top tier? Says who? He's no where close to a Cena or HBK or Undertaker, etc.

Once again, they are main eventers....CM Punk is an Upper Mid-Carder/low ME. He's a guy they can feed to a main eventer who the crowd believes might pull an upset, but the higher card guy goes over, but they got the other guy over as well...think Triple H/Taka back in 99...or more recently, Morrison/HBK. So yes, Punk is top tier...he's easily babyface #5 or #6 behind Cena, Taker, Trips, and HBK...hell, let's put Jeffykins into that list too, but he's so damn hit-or-miss these days, who knows.

And you want me to take you seriously after this?

JBL himself has said it. Take him seriously. He knows he isn't anywhere near where he was during his World title reign, but he's making the best of what he has now...which isn't much. When you can't have a good match with HBK, who has even made THE GREAT FUCKING KHALI look good, then there's a problem...or can we blame that one on creative too?

Punk can't leave for Wall Street, and Punk's never put butts in the seats. So, I'm not sure what to say here.

Oh look! An attempt at being witty! It just does break the monotony of your shitty arguement, doesn't it? Thanks for the break, douchebag!

You're welcome.

Oh, don't thank me! Shucks!

And neither will Punk, but at least JBL brings something to the table...guys like Punk are a dime a dozen.

To the buffet table...where he's a dime a pound...and go grab me a dozen CM Punks and we got ourselves one HELL of a promotion...think they call it Ring Of Honor...hmm...

How, because they made him look strong as possible, and he did nothing with it?

Once again, creative needs to actually DO something. They didn't get him the backstage vingettes or promos he needed to let the audience really know who he was and what this meant to them...instead he got overshadowed by the "real" main eventers. He got pushed aside during the AWESOME Jericho/Michaels feud and the Cena/Batista vs. Legacy feud. He got fed opponents who couldn't work (Batista and...oh yeah, JBL). He got treated from the beginning BY CREATIVE as a footnote, so they made him one. They threw him lemons, and he made lemonade, but they gave him rotten lemons.

Or, maybe, creative only cares about the people that can actually do the things they want, and those guys couldn't.

Let's see...injuries and the draft make for bad situation with world title...hey, we got a guy with a title shot! Let's play hot potato until we can figure out what to do! Cause don't forget, the belt went Punk, Jericho, Batista, Jericho, Cena in the course of three months...you gonna start blaming Jericho? Hope not.

If by "swam", you mean was put on a first class luxury liner by creative, only to see Punk jump overboard and puncture his own life raft with a machete, then yes, I would agree.

Now that was kinda funny...cause that would put him on the rock I previously mentioned...so, touche.

That was two years ago. Look how well he's done since then...

Thanks for proving my point...he was a newbie then, now he's a former World Champion, ECW Champion (what, twice?), IC Champion, Tag Champion, MitB winner, Slammy winner...nope, he hasn't done SHIT since that Survivor Series, has he?

The fuck it's not. Who made it clear? Certainly not the WWE.

They made it clear when they had Chavo Guerrero, who at the time was the ECW champion, appear in the Royal Rumble...it just completely devalues the title and makes it lesser, since he's already a supposed "World" champion.

This also can be speculated in that both RAW and Smackdown!'s belts are gold, whereas the ECW title is silver...may just be looking into it, but a bit of irony there.

If by "steady" you mean dropped several tenths of a point from the beginning to the end of his reign, then you'd be corect.

And who was he feuding with? Oh yeah...JBL. It all comes full circle.

Bullshit. You don't mean to make a guy a transitional champ and let him hold the belt for several months. The fact is that Punk couldn't draw, ratings went down, so they took the belt off him.

I hate answering shit twice, so I'm going to cut and paste.

Once again, creative needs to actually DO something. They didn't get him the backstage vingettes or promos he needed to let the audience really know who he was and what this meant to them...instead he got overshadowed by the "real" main eventers. He got pushed aside during the AWESOME Jericho/Michaels feud and the Cena/Batista vs. Legacy feud. He got fed opponents who couldn't work (Batista and...oh yeah, JBL). He got treated from the beginning BY CREATIVE as a footnote, so they made him one. They threw him lemons, and he made lemonade, but they gave him rotten lemons.

Exactly. And people STILL try to say that creative hasn't done anything for him.

Read above. Sheesh.

So well that ratings dropped, and he couldn't even main-event his own Raw TV show.

Once again...wow, going line by line sure makes you look like a broken record, doesn't it?

You recall wrong. When Punk was champion, ratings dropped from the 3.5 they were carrying after the draft, all the way down to a 2.8 and 2.9 in the last two weeks of his reign.

Hmm, shows that had Cena and Batista in the main event...how come no one tuned in for them? You can't put ratings on one person...they ALL failed to keep viewers interested. But guess what? The ratings POPPED for the first two weeks of his reign, cause people wanted to see. The rest of the product needs to help maintain for ratings sake...and despite the Jericho/HBK awesomeness, it just wasn't happening. Wrestling ebbs and flows, and it's not necessarily the superstars fault, but rather, the piss poor BOOKING that the WRITERS do. People OBVIOUSLY didn't want Cena and Batista...Punk's segments and Jericho's segments during that time were drawing big...but creative didn't put them on last.

Then again, this was during the Adamle era, so we can clearly just put all the blame on him.

Really? Being a midcarder who was given every opportunity to succeed, only to fail miserably in both drawing and putting on good matches isn't something to back it up with?

CM Punk vs. Morrison parts 1-5. Now tell me he hasn't had any good matches. Not even getting into the ratings and merch thing again because my head very may well explode.

Bullshit. People used to complain about the treatment Cena got, being put in the main-event, winning all the time etc...and yet Punk got BETTER treatment than that, and couldn't do half of what Cena did with it.

Now this is where I find it hard to believe you aren't on drugs. Cena got treated like SUPERMAN. He beat the ENTIRE ROSTER (sans main eventers) at once with Orton. Hell, he beat the entire ECW roster by himself during the initial reboot. He was BOOKED that way. He also has size over Punk. That's IT. Wrestling ability and promo ability, Punk has Cena outmatched...but Cena has the WWE machine behind him...he's their cash cow...so of course he gets the Hogan-esque superhuman booking...Punk is just some straight edge kid from Chicago living a dream...two completely different people booked two completely different ways. In no way did Punk get better treatment, cause he was competing against Super Cena for airtime, whereas Cena had NO ONE to compete against as far as that level of babyface (HBK and Trips were doing DX V2 at the time and Taker was out for injury).

Right now, Punk sucks. That's not to say that he can't eventually get better, but right now he sucks. He's not had ONE good match in his entire time, both World title reigns were failures, he doesn't get good pops, and the amount of support from booking he's gotten has been ridiculously good for someone who has not produced.

Once again, the booking was NOT great. The only time he was booked great was in HOW he lost the titles...they protected him in that aspect. The rest of his booking was pure crap. He was NOT given a proper chance to get over due to working JBL (the heat vaccuum) and Batista (bigger babyface). If they had went Punk/Jericho, magic would have happened, but Jericho/HBK was going on, so Punk was literally left with no one on the World Championship level to feud with (Orton was out with the collarbone). Let's just call a spade a spade...Punk was just in the right place at the right time and wasn't meant to be anytime more than a flash in the pan...hell, I thought he was going to be the first to lose their MitB cash-in...although that's probably going to happen this year as NONE of the competitors should even be NEAR a World Title right now...

The irony comes from the fact that your entire post here is doing the EXACT same thing.

At least I'm willing to present an argument and use facts to back it up. You just basically made a useless post agreeing with someone else who has fuck all for facts.

This, is what we call in the Internetz world, an epic fail.

Where are your facts? Do you have phone numbers for WWE creative and they told you "yeah, we did all this to get him over and he just wouldn't work!" That's what's great about the IWC...all armchair bookers who claim you're doing what creative would/wouldn't do. Fact is, that's what happened at that time. If Punk was wearing the strap now, he would certainly feud with Orton...but guess what? Orton was injured when Punk was champ. All they had was broken-down JBL and a handful of main event babyfaces...Punk was just there.

The only point you made was that you're clearly an anti-Punk mark because of whatever reason. I'm also clearly a Punk-mark, but I'm well familiar with the mans previous work to know that he doesn't suck, just his situation.

And for the record, his feud with Regal is Regal's fault due to him being sick again (same thing that put him out of action back when him and Storm were teaming), which sucks, because at 100%, Regal is one of the best, so he and Punk should have tore it up...and they did for their brief matches (once again, hard to get over if you only have 3 mins for a match). So, once again, it's not Punk's ability, it's who he's working and how he's booked...

The only "shreds" you tore apart were my post...please keep it to a one paragraph answer cause I have better things to do than put IWC bitches in their place.

 

[The Earl]

What's happening with Punk is the same thing that is going on with all the upper mid carders. Creative has gotten lazy. Plain and simple. Think about it. MITB now has eight participants this year. It will be a damn trainwreck. What that means is that creative doesnt have to come up with anything for Punk, MVP, Kane, or the other participants. Just throw them all in one big heap. I like the fact he dropped the IC to JBL. Bradshaw will at least draw some heat. But as far as Punk is concerned, we will have to wait until after Mania to see what they have in store for him.

I'm not a huge fan of Punk, and I think he got the World title too soon. That being said, he should have at least been allowed to lose the title at the PPV. You want Jericho in the Scramble, have him do what Edge did at No Way Out and take out one of the other participants. It was a horrible move to pull your damn CHAMPION out of the match.

Punk's Tag and IC runs were both transitional, and shouldnt be looked upon as a sucess or failure. The tag titles are worthless until they get unified again, and the IC title has always been more prestigious when its held by a strong heel.

The ECW title run, on the other hand, should have been longer. Punk carried the brand since it's inception, and was a deserving champion. He should have held it for a year, and defended it at last years Mania, instead of being in MITB. Have I mentioned how much I hate MITB?

 

[chrisbrown0621]

he should go back to roh or some damm ware because he does not have what it takes to make it at any leaval it would even be a discrase for him to go to tna

 

[mikeRC]

I really think that Punk was booked well and did very well when he first came into ECW. He may not have been very tall but he had a very "tough guy" look about him with his tatoos,lip rings and taped fists along with far heavier ring music than anybody else had. And he was booked as if he were a sort of MMA fighter. His move set was very punch and kick and he had a submission move that nobody could get out of. The guy even got over in the hammerstein ballroom and i think he was very over with the large arena crowds too.

So it has been shown that Punk can be booked well (but then again anybody could under Paul Heyman) and can work well with what he gets.

CM Punk loses out today because there is always someone right behind him who can do something more interesting with the spot he has. He lost his world heavyweight title because Jericho could do something a lot better with it by feuding with HBK. He lost his world tag team title because Miz and Morrison could do a lot better with it by causing chaos across all three brands and generating by more heat with them. And he lost his Intercontinental title to JBL because JBL can go on to use it very well at Wrestlemania when he goes back to his home state of Texas.

So in many ways it's the flaw of both the creative team and CM Punk. The creative team has nothing for him but he doesn't inspire the creative team to give him anything to do. He really only won the ECW title because John Morrison was being suspended and it was the same for his MITB win.

he should go back to roh or some damm ware because he does not have what it takes to make it at any leaval it would even be a discrase for him to go to tna

this was just painful to read.

 

[Slyfox696]

Testament to his popularity...Cena gets a SPLIT reaction in his OWN HOMETOWN. As do most Canadians when the go back up north. Fact is, Punk gets a reaction...turn up the volume on your TV or your hearing aid or whatever it is you choose to listen with, because you're missing out.

It's a testament to his popularity that Punk gets cheered by his smarky hometown? How the fuck does that make sense?

It's MUCH more a testament over his overness that the only place he DOES get cheered is his hometown. All other towns care about as much for him as they do Kofi Kingston.

Well lookit there! He just named off all the MAIN EVENT BABYFACES! Wow, the EXACT guys I claimed were above Punk!

You should practice reading comprehension. Are you aware WHY I listed those guys, or were you too busy sounding ridiculous to take the time to understand the context of my post.

My point was this. JBL is more valuable than Punk. Someone said "nu uh because Punk sells merch". And I was showing how dumb that statement was because all those other guys sell much more merch...but very few guys in the WWE play the heel role better.

Wrestling is, and always has been, about the struggle between Good and Evil. Punk is a midcard Good guy...JBL is a top rate Bad guy.

JBL > Punk

Seriously, that comprehension thing. Look into it.

And more heels is NOT what they need, especially on RAW where they have Orton, Jericho, soon-to-be Edge, hell, Santino is in a better position than JBL right now (cause Santino sells merch and actually gets a reaction other than "holy fuck, here comes fatty"). JBL is approaching X-Pac level heat, and that's not the good kind...it's the "go the fuck away and never come back" kind.

Bullshit. It's the "I fucking hate your guts and never want to see anything good for you heat". Which is PERFECT for wrestling.

In this day and age, guys like Orton, Jericho, Edge etc. are in a terrible spot, because stupid marks like many in the IWC want to show how badass they are so they cheer the heel and boo the face. JBL doesn't have that problem. Unlike guys like Orton, Jericho, and Edge, JBL plays his heel role that NOBODY tries to say they are a JBL fan.

And that's what makes JBL so damn good. And it's why Shawn fuckin' Michaels was getting booed.

Nope, he got that deal back when he was an announcer, because at the time, he was doing fantastic work and Vince wanted to keep him on in that regard, so he allowed JBL to take the company jet from his office in NYC to the arena and back so he could work on Wednesday. Hardly makes JBL an outstanding company man if he needs to drain one companies resources to go work for another one...and Vince is doing this for someone who, in all honesty, has enough money for his own jet. Now whether he gets the same treatment still, dunno, since JBL is an active wrestler again, but the fact is, he got the treatment as an announcer...not as a wrestler.

You're right. And the WWE would NEVER end the contract of any worker they didn't think they were getting their money out of.

Please, your desperate attempt to grasp at straws is getting tiresome. Quit being the "sheep" that everyone likes to accuse others of being, open you eyes, and look objectively at the situation. Just once.

Once again, they are main eventers....CM Punk is an Upper Mid-Carder/low ME.

No fuckin' shit. That's what I've been saying for forever.

What the fuck is your point anyways? I know Punk is a midcarder, that's what I've said all along. But he's only a midcarder because he's not good enough to be in the main-event. And we know he's not good enough to main-event, because he's been given NUMEROUS opportunities to prove that he is.

CM Punk is not good enough to be in the main-event. Thus, it's HIS fault he is where he is at, not the WWE's.

Are you trying to make my points for me, or what?

When you can't have a good match with HBK, who has even made THE GREAT FUCKING KHALI look good

No he didn't. The Great Khali vs. HBK was a piss bucket match, and anyone claiming otherwise never watched the match. It was awful.

Oh look! An attempt at being witty! It just does break the monotony of your shitty arguement, doesn't it? Thanks for the break, douchebag!

Calling someone a "douchebag" is considered a "flame". I'm a Global Moderator. Generally, it's not a smart idea to flame Global Moderators. Feel fortunate I'm in a kind mood today.

Of course, the best part is how you can't even refute the veracity of my statement. All you had was a flame...you couldn't argue I was right.

Oh, don't thank me! Shucks!

I didn't. I said "you're welcome". Seriously...reading comprehension.

Once again, creative needs to actually DO something. They didn't get him the backstage vingettes or promos he needed to let the audience really know who he was and what this meant to them...instead he got overshadowed by the "real" main eventers. He got pushed aside during the AWESOME Jericho/Michaels feud and the Cena/Batista vs. Legacy feud. He got fed opponents who couldn't work (Batista and...oh yeah, JBL). He got treated from the beginning BY CREATIVE as a footnote, so they made him one. They threw him lemons, and he made lemonade, but they gave him rotten lemons.

Please.

Creative came up with an original storyline for him, which had a good arc and if Punk could have pulled it off, would have led for good drama. Punk couldn't pull it off, nobody cared about him, and so his reign took Raw ratings from a 3.5 to a 2.8.

Oh, and Batista is TWICE the worker Punk is.

Thanks for proving my point...he was a newbie then, now he's a former World Champion, ECW Champion (what, twice?), IC Champion, Tag Champion, MitB winner, Slammy winner...nope, he hasn't done SHIT since that Survivor Series, has he?

No, you are proving MY point.

Look at ALL the things that booking has done for him. He's had arguably the best first 2 and a half years in the WWE since Ric Flair back in '91. And he STILL can't get over with the fans.

You want to blame creative, but look at all they've done for him. How the fuck is it their fault when Punk is given the best booking of anyone since Flair?

They made it clear when they had Chavo Guerrero, who at the time was the ECW champion, appear in the Royal Rumble...it just completely devalues the title and makes it lesser, since he's already a supposed "World" champion.

So what? Chavo wanted another World title. Hulk Hogan was World Champion back in '90...that didn't stop him from being in the Rumble.

Hmm, shows that had Cena and Batista in the main event...how come no one tuned in for them?

This...this is a joke right? The very night Cena came back to Raw, ratings jumped. Are you really trying to make this argument?

You can't put ratings on one person

I'm not...I'm putting it on the champion.

And the champion was Punk.

The ratings POPPED for the first two weeks of his reign, cause people wanted to see.

Yes, they wanted to see the Draft and the fallout from it. Once they saw Punk as champion, they weren't interested and they quit watching.

CM Punk vs. Morrison parts 1-5. Now tell me he hasn't had any good matches. Not even getting into the ratings and merch thing again because my head very may well explode.

Every Punk vs. Morrison match was, at best, average. And that includes the match from ECW where Punk won the title.

Now this is where I find it hard to believe you aren't on drugs. Cena got treated like SUPERMAN.

And yet, his PPV record in 2006 was barely .500, if it even was. Cena was put in the undercard for years, had to develop his own gimmick, was forced to change from face to heel to face again, and had to work his way up the card.

Punk debuts...well, you already posted all the favorable booking he got. You know what the difference between Punk and Cena is? Cena actually proved he deserved it. Punk has yet to do so.

Wrestling ability and promo ability, Punk has Cena outmatched

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, not even close, on either account. Cena's put on more good matches in 2009 than Punk has in his entire career. Punk isn't fit to shine Cena's sneakers when it comes to wrestling ability...and when it comes to promo ability, Punk is lucky to beat out Rey Mysterio in that department.

but Cena has the WWE machine behind him...he's their cash cow

Yes, because he draws fans, he entertains them, he can work the stick, and he puts on good matches on a regular basis.

Why wouldn't that be your top guy?

Punk is just some straight edge kid from Chicago living a dream

Yes, completely ordinary. So ordinary that he's only been given...hold on, let me look for it:

former World Champion, ECW Champion (what, twice?), IC Champion, Tag Champion, MitB winner, Slammy winner

Yes, truly Punk has NEVER been given good booking. I mean, only a 2 time World Champion? Who could get over with that kind of booking?

I'm not even going to read the rest of your post. I've made my point, but because it seems to bother you so much, I'll say it once more.

Punk has been given GREAT booking, and he is not over with the fans, he drew poorly as champion, and Punk is the reason that he's in the midcard, not the WWE.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Punk has been given many opportunities to be one of the best in the WWE and his failures to get over and have meaningful title reign are his fault not the WWE's. JBL is much more valuable than Punk because JBL is the ultimate heel. People still cheer for Orton and Edge (Jericho not so much) but have you ever heard a cheer for JBL since 2004? Punk has had arguably the best two year start to a career since Angle. World Champion, Tag Team Champion, MITB, and Intercontinental Champion and he has done nothing with it. You can blame the WWE all you want but if Punk is not pushing the meter and raising ratings while champion then he doesn't deserve to be champion now. Maybe in a couple of years but he won't be seeing the world championship scene for a while.

 

[butsecks]

what's happening with cm punk? the realization that hes vastly overrated is actually coming to its fruition. thats whats happening. i don't see whats so good about this guy. because he lives a clean life? who cares. i do to. its wrestling where talking about here. anyway, look at all the titles hes been given, mic time, storylines handed to him on a silver platter and hes gotten nowhere but down the gutter. i'd rather watch JBL anyday over cm punk because hes ENTERTAINING. wwe made a good move to make JBL ic champ. wwe hasn't screwed cm punk, cm punk screwed cm punk.

 

[aventanthony]

I completely agree that CM Punk has been booked pretty bad... he was never givin a chance to grow into the part of a champion on any of his title reigns... if your not putting your title up for grabs you cant go over... CM Punk is a rare talent... he came in the WWE with a strong fan base and hasnt lost much of it... he deserves better WWE... not that many other wrestlers are getting much better in the way of storylines...

 

[RawIsRamsey]

Cena was put in the undercard for years, had to develop his own gimmick, was forced to change from face to heel to face again, and had to work his way up the card.

Punk debuts...well, you already posted all the favorable booking he got. You know what the difference between Punk and Cena is? Cena actually proved he deserved it. Punk has yet to do so.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, not even close, on either account. Cena's put on more good matches in 2009 than Punk has in his entire career. Punk isn't fit to shine Cena's sneakers when it comes to wrestling ability...and when it comes to promo ability, Punk is lucky to beat out Rey Mysterio in that department.

Yes, because he draws fans, he entertains them, he can work the stick, and he puts on good matches on a regular basis.

Why wouldn't that be your top guy?

Yes, completely ordinary. So ordinary that he's only been given...hold on, let me look for it:



Yes, truly Punk has NEVER been given good booking. I mean, only a 2 time World Champion? Who could get over with that kind of booking?

I'm not even going to read the rest of your post. I've made my point, but because it seems to bother you so much, I'll say it once more.

Punk has been given GREAT booking, and he is not over with the fans, he drew poorly as champion, and Punk is the reason that he's in the midcard, not the WWE.

Ya know, I was tired of the back and forth on Punk's virtues or JBL's virtues, because we're obviously cut from different cloth and prefer different styles of wrestling. So I was willing to squash that.

But the Cena love? Now THAT'S where I draw the line.

Now, I'm gonna be honest, I respect Cena's workrate...he does everything he's asked, makes a ton of appearances, and has a level of intensity that makes him deserve the spot he's given. But to say he wasn't shouldered as the golden boy since his debut against Angle...well...that's just foolish.

Since he stepped in, he had the look Vince wanted...very clean cut, babyface, big strong type, could talk fairly well and wrestle fairly well. Vince say HUGE paydirt and pushed him as such...even so far as to get a victory over Chris Jericho in his first PPV match (good God, has Jericho EVER gone over Cena?). He then did the Halloween costume contest where he was a rapper and the rest, as the say, was history. This all happened in SIX MONTHS.

Punk, on the other hand, got debuted on the C show against Justin Credible...hardly the great debut Cena had on Smackdown against Angle. Punk continued to pick up wins against lesser opponents, especially not of the calibur Cena was fed at the beginning of his career. Also, Cena had the pleasure of working with the Smackdown! 6 at times, who are far and above better player-coaches than what Punk had during his time in ECW.

As for in-ring ability...Cena's best matches have been against opponents who can CARRY him to great matches. Matter of fact, out of any match Cena has had, the only ones that stand out in my head are the matches with HBK and Edge...THAT'S IT. With Punk, I can easily count the matches with Samoa Joe, Danielson, Aries, Cabana...the list goes on. Maybe that's where you and I differ, once again, styles of wrestling we enjoy.

Fact is, Cena was given a far better push than Punk from the beginning with the calibur of workers he was put over with on Smackdown! while Punk was left to get over on his talent alone in the wasteland of ECW. Cena was easily given the better opportunity.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Ya know, I was tired of the back and forth on Punk's virtues or JBL's virtues, because we're obviously cut from different cloth and prefer different styles of wrestling. So I was willing to squash that.

But the Cena love? Now THAT'S where I draw the line.

Now, I'm gonna be honest, I respect Cena's workrate...he does everything he's asked, makes a ton of appearances, and has a level of intensity that makes him deserve the spot he's given. But to say he wasn't shouldered as the golden boy since his debut against Angle...well...that's just foolish.

Since he stepped in, he had the look Vince wanted...very clean cut, babyface, big strong type, could talk fairly well and wrestle fairly well. Vince say HUGE paydirt and pushed him as such...even so far as to get a victory over Chris Jericho in his first PPV match (good God, has Jericho EVER gone over Cena?). He then did the Halloween costume contest where he was a rapper and the rest, as the say, was history. This all happened in SIX MONTHS.

Punk, on the other hand, got debuted on the C show against Justin Credible...hardly the great debut Cena had on Smackdown against Angle. Punk continued to pick up wins against lesser opponents, especially not of the calibur Cena was fed at the beginning of his career. Also, Cena had the pleasure of working with the Smackdown! 6 at times, who are far and above better player-coaches than what Punk had during his time in ECW.

As for in-ring ability...Cena's best matches have been against opponents who can CARRY him to great matches. Matter of fact, out of any match Cena has had, the only ones that stand out in my head are the matches with HBK and Edge...THAT'S IT. With Punk, I can easily count the matches with Samoa Joe, Danielson, Aries, Cabana...the list goes on. Maybe that's where you and I differ, once again, styles of wrestling we enjoy.

Fact is, Cena was given a far better push than Punk from the beginning with the calibur of workers he was put over with on Smackdown! while Punk was left to get over on his talent alone in the wasteland of ECW. Cena was easily given the better opportunity.

Since you are comparing Cena and Punk, I'm going to compare too. In Cena's first two years, he won the United States Title a couple of times. Punk has won the Tag Team Titles, Intercontinental Title, World Heavyweight Championship, and Money In The Bank so that overrules your argument right there.

It doesn't matter what show you debut on or who you debut against. The Rock fought his first match against the Brooklyn Brawler and you saw how the Rock turned out. Punk was given more opportunities than Cena. It took Cena a year and a half to win his first singles title, more time than Punk.

I'm not a huge Cena fan but I do respect his work ethic and it takes TWO people to perform a successful match, not one wrestler carrying the other. He had great matches with Khali, Umaga, a good one with Bobby Lashley, and don't forget WM 22 and Night of Champions 2008 against HHH. While you can count Punk's great indie matches, that's what they are indie matches. None of that matters in WWE. It's what you do against the competition in your own wrestling federation that matters. I like Punk but the only good matches he's had was against John Morrison and that was a year ago. I put him slightly above Shelton Benjamin as a phenomenal talent but not ready for the main event scene.

 

[crazy88]

Quite simply, I say it's time to put Punk in the ring against some of the top caliber talent the WWE has. Honestly, he's only had a couple of matches against Edge, who's workrate is outstanding, and the cage match with Jericho, in which Punk held his own. Most of the time, he's been in the ring with guys who either have less experience than him or are just a terrible match up with him. I would love to see creative throw him in a long rivalry with a Randy Orton, an Edge, a Shawn Michaels, or even a Matt Hardy. Guys who are just really good workers. They need someone to light a fire under Punk's ass and tell him to sink or swim. He's still young enough where Punk can make himself into one of the "guys" in the WWE.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

WWE obviously loves C.M. Punk, which could be the result of his straight-edge style, which is why he continues to get those title reigns. His best title reign by far was his E.C.W. Championship reign, which was his first title reign in the WWE. He was booked to look pretty strong against his opponents, something that his other title reigns did not show. It was great when he cashed in the ''Money in the Bank'' briefcase won the World Heavyweight Championship and later retained against J.B.L., but the rest of his reign was just completely weak. His only proper title defense was the ones with J.B.L. as his title defenses against Batista were not good. I really think that having him the Scramble would have been very good for him, even if he lost, but we'll never know. I liked C.M. Punk and Kofi Kingston as a tag team, but I always felt that they wouldn't be a long term, nor a dominant tag team. Why should they, they're both singles stars. I really thought that his Intercontinental Championship reign would take his career back on the right track. I thought he would hold the title for several months and take on all-comers. But after 2 title defenses and a 1.5 month reign, he loses it to J.B.L. I think that C.M. Punk will continue to win titles, but the title win will do nothing if the reigns itself don't benefit the wrestler. The good thing is that he doesn't lose credibility with his corny title reigns, but nonetheless, I think that WWE really needs to think about his career path before giving his just some useless title reign. Plan out the reign first, then award him the title... it's that easy.