Pick Your Poison: The Finger Poke of Doom or David Arquette as World Champion

[IrishCanadian25]

Ok, I decided to take the popular "Pick Your Poison" thread idea and turn it around a bit. While you are usually asked to choose between two wrestlers and explain why you prefer one / think one was better, I want to do the opposite here.

"The Finger Poke of Doom" and David Arquette winning the WHC (twice...) in WCW are both listed many times as MAJOR parts of what led up to the END of WCW. I'd like to know- Which of these two wrestling sins do you consider worse / more egregious?

With the Finger Poke, you have obviously massive politics at work and a match with huge build up ending in a lay down.

With Arquette, you have a NON-WRESTLER going over high caliber wrestlers for one of the 3 biggest titles in professional wrestling for the sake of promoting a bad movie. (No, this isn't the story of John Cena, you naughty people you!)

Which WCW "Poison" was worse, and which was a larger contributing factor to the end of WCW?

 

[motorcitymaniac]

The Fingerpoke of Doom was far worse. The scheduled match, if done right, could have been very good, but politics screwed it up. The fans would have loved to see Goldberg and Nash face off again. Goldberg lost all credibility as a threat to the NWO because they beat him down so much after the match. It was also much more of a contributing factor to the end of WCW. According to Wikipedia, after the Fingerpoke, WCW drew over a 5.0 only once more, and that was because RAW was pre-empted. By the time Arquette was champion, it was already way too late to save WCW.

 

[mulvey187]

the fingerpoke of doom....my opinoin.I think wcw fans realy wanted a nash hogan match from the hollywood vs wolfpac fued.I think they should of had savage win the world war 3 and have a hogan nash retirement match at starcade. but bishoff could not wait for a build up and wanted a quikey rating.buys=money ratings=-money than buys.
hulk you helpes make and kill wcw well done.
who would of ever thought arquette would win the title its entertaiment

 

[AnthonyM4]

I think Arquette getting the belt was worse. I mean this is a 160 pound non-wrestler and mediocre actor were talking about here! It made wcw and wrestling as a whole look more to be a joke. They also had him defend the title against Tank Abbott and Tank's career pretty much went down the toilet after he lost that match! The guy was KOing wrestlers in one second when he first started and he couldn't do the same with David Arquette?

 

[justinsayne]

Finger poke of doom was far less damaging than the Arquette championship run, at least with the fingerpoke of doom the title manged to stay on a fucking wrestler, Arquette as champion made it look as if any jackass can just jump into the ring and become World champ overnight, and that just makes the guys that bust their asses to become champ look stupid, with the fingerpoke of doom you had to ME level guys in the ring, and it added a bit of a twist to things, not necessarily a good twist but it was still better than people the top title on some dipshit B-movie actor, that looked like he just got off his couch and into the fucking ring

 

[MattMoses]

Fair arguments could be made for both of them, but I'm going to go with the Fingerpoke of Doom.

Basically, this was the beginning of the end for WCW. Obviously, it devalued the prestige of the title greatly, having someone lay down for another for the biggest title in the company. It also hurt the company greatly portraying their biggest face at the time, Goldberg in a very negative light. Also having him being advertised for the main event, which I'm guessing most people actually wanted to see, never happened.

You also have the making of the 'Elite' nWo. Not only did they completely decimate the companies biggest face by completely burying him and spray-painting him on live national TV, it made all those months of build-up and tension between Hogan, the nWo Black & White and the Wolfpac seem completely worthless, which the had been building for months. Along with that, they still left the nWo Hollywood stable up and running, 'nWo B-Team'. Completely worthless. And to add onto that, ratings started to decrease from this point in time, from the 5's, down to 2.9's at the end of the year. Ultimately, I'm going to say this was a bigger contribution to the downfall of WCW.

Now with Arquette winning the WCW Heavyweight title, you have to remember that by this time, the title had pretty much no prestige or credibility at all. If you ask me, it stems back to late October 1999 when Ric Flair was the on-screen President of the company. A brief look at the history of the title around that era:

Sting becomes champion at Halloween Havoc. Hogan lays down for him for the three count. So already, within the space of nine months, we have two championship matches where someone has laid down for the other guy. Okay, perhaps they can try to rebuild the titles prestige. Or maybe not. The next night on Nitro, Sting is stripped of the title for attacking an referee. A tournament is held with Bret Hart becoming the champion. The next night on Nitro, Bret is stripped of the title. The same night, he has a match with Goldberg, defeating him, once again becoming a World champion, in the space of one day? Absolutely pointless? I think so. Fast forward a month. Bret gives up the title due to an injury. In all fairness, it can't be helped. Benoit goes on to become champion at Souled Out. The title is once again deemed vacant due to Benoit leaving the company. Wow, this belt sure does mean alot with all these vacancies and strippings. But anyway.

So by now, Kevin Nash is the commissioner of the company. He declares himself the new World Heavyweight champion. He loses the title to Vicious that night. Why would the title be put on Nash for less than an hour? Really doesn't make sense, but anyway. Fast forward a few months. The title is yet again declared vacant. Jarrett becomes the new champion. Eight days later, he loses the title to DDP. What a fantastic title reign. DDP ultimately goes on to lose the championship a day later to Arquette. But ask yourself this. Did Aquette winning the championship damage the prestige of the title? Or was there none there to begin with? The title had been made vacant in the short space of six months, with champions having less than one day title reigns and commissioners deeming themselves the new champion with no effort.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Niether one made much of a difference. WCW in Jan 1999 was doing huge business even though the NWO angle had been pretty disjointed from late spring/early summer 1998. The two biggest stories were Goldberg's unprecedented run to the title and Ric Flair's lawsuit/return. At the end of 1998 we had Flair take over WCW, and Goldberg finally lose (albeit in screw job fashion) to Kevin Nash.

Now Jan 1999 the stage was set for a re-constituted NWO to re-emerge and wreak havoc as they tried to get their power base back from Flair and the fan favorites. The idea of Hogan's return and Nash's ceeding the belt to him was a surprise, but it reinvigorated the NWO and made them something important again. Plus, WCW needed a dominant heel group to oppose Flair and Goldberg (Sting was MIA at this time, he returned that spring). Turning the tables and making Flair & the good guys hold the power while the NWO schemed to get it back could have been huge. It was what WCW fans had been waiting for forever. This did take away the heat from a potential Nash/Goldberg re-match but left WCW with very attractive options for Hogan/Flair and the long awaited Hogan/Goldberg match that never happened.

Essentially the "finger poke" set up WCW with great potential but they blew it from here. Goldberg was pushed into the background, beating up Scott Hall and other mid carders when he should have been front and center opposing the new NWO. WCW did push Flair/Hogan and the intial numbers were big but WCW turned off their fans by screwing Flair out of the title, then burying his character in the weeks leading to their re-match with the ridiculous David Flair NWO story. It essentially became the same old same old with Flair and the WCW guys getting buried by the NWO and Goldberg being wasted on the midcard. By he time Sting returned so many fans were bored with another Hogan/Nash dominate everyone story that the numbers declined, essentially for good. This also marked the practical end of the NWO as a main event entity. Hogan's "where did that come from" face turn basically killed the faction forever as none of their other re-incarnations generated as much interest. WCW also blew Hogan's face turn by turning Flair heel (which never worked with WCW's audience late in his career) and having them fight a third series of matches that year instead of having Hogan face off against Nash and the NWO guys.

There have been so many different stories about how all this went down, many of them derogatory towards Hogan and Nash. Fact is, WCW mgt (IE Bischoff) had the final say so if the decissions failed there's where the blame goes. As it is, the finger poke set the stage for some potentially greatstuff but it was wasted. This is when WCW started it's inevitable decine.

As for Arquette, Russo's manic booking style and inability to balance veterans (IE ppl fans wanted to see) with new talent (IE ppl fans needed to become familair with) was the final death blow for the company. Arquette was just a symptom or side effect, on it's own it did little damage.

 

[MrMars]

As it is, the finger poke set the stage for some potentially greatstuff but it was wasted. This is when WCW started it's inevitable decine.

I've long held this opinion myself. I didn't dislike that angle at all, and felt that it could have been a real springboard for a great reversal of roles in WCW with the nWo coming at the company faces from the bottom. One of many wasted or rushed opportunities that we saw in their final hours.

 

[image1986]

Arquettes title reign put the nail in the casket for wcw. I actually thought the fingerpoke was intitally pretty good because no one saw it coming. The burying of flair and goldberg wasn't necessary though. Seperating the two nwos with the wolfpack having the main eventers was pointless. Stevie ray as leader? Hahahaaha
I believe arquettes reign is worse because at that point it made wcw look desperate for any kind of ratings. The title was being passed around to random wrestlers a d rated actor. The integity of the title died that day I didn't want to watch anymore. In end what was the real purpose of him having the title? it lead to nothing and showed how they stoled out completely. This was even worse than that robocop angle and even warriors return

 

[Shocky]

I think the Fingerpoke of Doom gets more shit then what it's worth. It's a tough call because if the Fingerpoke worked out, it could have been one of the greatest swerves of all time.

However, it didn't work. WCW went up against a pre-taped WWE program in what was supposed to be the showdown to end all showdowns. Both shows going into a new year and wanting to get that first win of the year. WCW even gave away the ending to the Main Event and found themselves on the losing end of the stick.

For me, I honestly don't think the Fingerpoke of Doom was the endgame in the Monday Night Wars. The WWE was gaining all of the momentum regardless and It was simply a matter of time before they decimated WCW, which they did.

I still say the title was worthless by the time Arquette one it, thanks in large part to Russo booking which I'm sure will draw the ire of some on here. Seriously, someone defend Russo and his handling of the title, and I'll pretty much point and laugh at you. Still, even with that all said, you don't put the title on a "C" List celebrity in an attempt to get people to watch a terrible movie built around a terrible company.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Honestly, the "Finger Poke of Doom" isn't nearly as horrible as people are making it out to be, to begin with. It was a huge set-up, that brought the n.W.o. back together. The Arquette World Championship reign went into a fricken Pay Per View, and was completely pointless and horrible.

I mean, seriously. The finger poke placed the World Heavyweight Championship back on Hulk Hogan. It would likely go down in history as his worst World Heavyweight title victory and run as Champion, but it had logic, it had point. It brought together the remaining individuals in the two factions of the n.W.o. - and it tried once last time, to make the run truly work. So it shouldn't even be questioned as horrible to begin with.

Meanwhile, David Arquette as World Heavyweight Champion. Lets just focus on this for a second, he pinned Eric Bischoff to win the Championship to begin with. He then took that Championship into Slamboree, into a Triple Threat - Triple Cage (first ever) match. As if the match couldn't of gained enough interest because it was a "first ever" they had to put him into it. Then, they had him turn on D.D.P. which is the only thing that had a point.. however it was still a horrible one at that.

You're telling me, the ONLY WAY they could get the Championship from Diamond Dallas Page to Jeff Jarrett, without "hurting" D.D.P.'s credibility, was for him to be turned on by an actor who compared to, makes Funaki look like a Main Eventer?! Come on, seriously.

 

[midgensa]

I can see the arguments on both sides for this but I am going to have to go with the Fingerpoke because it straight ignited the fall of WCW. By taking the belt off Goldberg in the first place WCW made a mistake ... and having it cheapened this way the next night was ridiculous.
By the time Arquette was World Champ ... the championship had changed hands 17 TIMES in 16 MONTHS! That is ridiculous, besides the fact that it had also been flat vacated 6 times also. Once David laid hands on it ... it was already worthless. It had value just one night before the finger poke ... and NEVER gained it back until WWE had control of everything.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd say Arquette. I've been watching the month of May for 2000's Nitros, which Arquette was champion for and lost the title during. Aside from the absolute stupidity of that angle, the shows are excellent. The storylines were solid, the feuds were getting good, the show all around just clicked. Then you get to see an actor holding up the same title that Hogan, Sting, and Flair and other legends of the sport have worn. It was a mockery of the title. The fingerpoke of doom, that could be seen as a storyline and can be left at that. Yes it was more than likely based on politics, but in front of the camera, it was pointless, and nothing more than a publicity stunt. WCW was dead by this point anyway, so there was no reason to not do it. It was in my mind the final nail in the coffin for them, and their days were numbered. Has to be Arquette for me.

 

[BIGDLM]

I would go with the Arquette debacle. Way to go Russo.

I was not a fan of the finger poke because I thought that the NWO should have reunited by turning on the one guy that got them together. Hogan would then have turned a legitimate face and started feuding with the NWO for a long while.

 

[Davi323]

From an outsider's perspective, (IE, unaware of all the backstage monkey business) the fingerpoke of doom is MUCH more forgivable. It could simply be seen as a heel stable screwing with everyone's heads, giving the finger to the "man". Its something that Degeneration X might have done to mess with Vince McMahon, and it would have fit right in. There is however, simply no excuse for David Arquette winning the title.

 

[mqa86]

well i think the finger poke wasnt a huge problem, i saw something like that on wwf (how do i miss saying wwf, not that shit of wwe) when triple h and shawn michaels did the same to the european tile, now you may thing it wasnt a big title, and you are right, it was a shitty title, but when they do that they just reinforce the image of dx, if wcw would it be smart enough to do that, maybe there will be a wcw today.

i think that arquette was far worse, because there is no way to save that, you could make a historyline about the other issue, but how do you explain that a shitty actor defeats the world champ???

 

[4realpeoples]

well i was never a fan of WCW. the only thing i thought WCW did right was the Sting/Vampiro rivalry. but if i was going to pick what was worse i would definately go with Arquette being champion. why on earth would u want some non-wrestler being ur World Champion? thank another former WCW World Champion, Russo. now u see that after both of them had the title it was worthless until WWE bought WCW and actually had decent wrestlers fighting for the belt. seeing The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Booker T fighting for the title brought back some of its prestige. and now its the top title on SmackDown and there will never be a non-wrestler holding that belt again.

 

[scott_keystone]

Ill have to agree with earlier posters that the "fingerpoke of doom" was in essence a dropping of the ball by bischoff, hogan, etc. it couldve set up some major storylines for 99 but they buried goldberg and the company right off the bat by soloing him with bam bam bigelow and pushing the david flair garbage. in 2000 david arquette was just the straw that broke camels back to an already tarnished title, but you dont come back from that one even though im sure bischoff thought he was being slick by having arquette pin a "nonwrestler" (bischoff) to win the belt. awesome thread btw

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Ahh man. The fingerpoke of doom gets way too much shit. Like said before if it worked out it couldve been a great swerve that got people tuning in. Sadly it didn't. At least the strap was put on a credible wrestler like Hogan. Who time and time again proved he could carry the belt.

With Arquette winning the World Title it only made me want to switch the channel. It was truly a disgrace to the wrestlers who have held the title before that. It did absolutely nothing for the company and ultimatly was one of the main facotrs WCW folded.

Case in point Arquette winning the world title was far worse. I'd take the fingerpoke over that anyday.

 

[Slim Pickns]

The reason the Fingerpoke of Doom gets so much crap is that it made the Wolfpac vs Hollywood NWO storyline seem like a waste of time. The last few months of WCW programming focused mainly on Nash and the Wolfpac vs Hogan and NWO White. After the fingerpoke, there was a fairly large number of fans who felt that the entire storyline was a waste of time. I think it was just a quick way to try and re gain the craze the NWO had originally created. It could have worked if they took out Goldberg intially, then had him battle back and go through each member on his way to Hogan.

David Arquette winning the belt didn't demote the title anymore than it already was. During that era, the World Title meant nothing, mainly because it had been vacated and/or won by nearly anyone that had sniffed the Main Event level in WCW.

 

[Davi323]

But, couldn't it be said that showing that the feud between the nWo Wolfpac and nWo White was a fake, just showcased how the nWo could swerve us all? Their whole gimmick was to mess with everyone, and what better way to mess with everyone, other than to fake a feud, and get everyone drawn in to it, just to screw them at the end? Before Ashton Kutcher could do it, the entire WCW audience got Punk'd! Really, the fingerpoke of doom was just a stupid wrestling storyline, nothing to get that up in arms over...Unlike Arquette.

 

[Slim Pickns]

But, couldn't it be said that showing that the feud between the nWo Wolfpac and nWo White was a fake, just showcased how the nWo could swerve us all? Their whole gimmick was to mess with everyone, and what better way to mess with everyone, other than to fake a feud, and get everyone drawn in to it, just to screw them at the end? Before Ashton Kutcher could do it, the entire WCW audience got Punk'd! Really, the fingerpoke of doom was just a stupid wrestling storyline, nothing to get that up in arms over...Unlike Arquette.

I personally don't see the big deal in the Fingerpoke, mainly because it could have worked. That was the outcry of the WCW fans at the time. They felt ripped off that they watched six months worth of programming that turned out to be nothing. I never got where they were coming from, wrestling contridicts itself over time so much its ridiculous (Kane nearly kills Jim Ross and now Ross cheers him), so this shouldn't have been a big deal. Still though, the fact remain that this event turned off viewers from WCW, because it made the uninamous fan favorite Wolfpac lay down for Hogan showing his superiority. The Arquette win came at a time when WCW was on its downfall anyway. The Fingerpoke doesn't look like the worse of the two on paper, but at the times they happened it was far more damaging.

 

[Davi323]

But that's simply the law of unintended consequences...they didn't plan on the angle causing them to lose viewers, I don't think. Considering how incoherent WCW storylines were, its entirely possible that someone, somewhere backstage, had an idea of how it was supposed to play out, that sounded good...I simply can't come up with any rational arguments that would support David Arquette as being good for business though. I get what you are saying, I just think the fingerpoke could somehow, make sense logically...therefore, cannot be quite as bad as the alternative.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

There isn't anything wrong with either. The company was on it's way down. Obviously nobody knew it at the time. But in hindsight both provided great moments. You can talk about David Arquette ruining the legacy of the WCW title. But it wasn't the most prestigious title of all time. The difference between somebody like Ron Simmons & David Arquette is that one has a memorable title reign and get's talked about. Yeah he was a poor champion, yeah it was stupid to put the title on him. But everyone remembers it, same with the pinger poke. If it wasn't for those two moments then WCW would be even more of a distant memory.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Meh. Dont really see the huge deal with the FOD. It made perfect sense to book it like that. It only looks bad in retrospect, becuase WCW folded. If WWE did it, both guys with be credited with getting massive heat. Hindsight is 20/20. Arquette on the other hand was just an absolute abortion, a slap in the face of the intelligence of fans all over the world. Wrestling is about suspension of beleif, of being a good televison program. Why would you make shitty television with the same plot as a shitty movie?? No one belived Arquette could do that, while the FOD was totally belivable, within the universe of wrestling. I think people get over dramatic when it comes to the poke of doom.