What If: The WCW Story

[Khalifa]

Remember back in the late 1990's when WCW and WWF use to have epic wars to become the number 1 wrestling show on monday nights? I don't because I was too young but I am sure many of you would.

During the time Monday Night War was happening it was clear that WCW were definately the top dogs out of the two. They had stars such as Hogan, Hart, Nash, Sting, Flair, Hall and Savage as well as credible midcarders like Guerrero, Jericho, Page and Ravern. WWF had to start over with some of their stars due to Michaels being injured and some of their top stars leaving. While they still had big stars like Undertaker, Stone Cold was just coming into the main event and HHH, Rock and Mankind weren't all there yet. WCW went on to win the ratings for 84 weeks straight. 84 WEEKS WCW had beaten WWF. Mainly due to the fact that occasionally WCW would give out Raws results at the start of each show. After the 84 weeks McMahon finally got the ratings back to Raw with a main event of him vs Stone Cold. After months and months of going back and forth with the ratings it seemed that WCW had control again until one Nitro. The finger poke of doom and giving out the result of Mankind winning the WWF title. After that WWF took control and finally bought WCW.

My questions today are;

1) What was worse, the finger poke of doom or telling the world that Mankind won the WWF title?

2) If these incidents were not to occur, do you think that WCW could of eventually run away and put WWF out of business or were they always destined to lose?

 

[dman1373]

people always harp on those two things as why wcw folded. No they were just two stupid moments out of millions. If you watched wcw in 2000 you would know, wcw was shit. It had the most gimmicky everything and it stunk. And also wcw started running out of shock value of this guy turning or that guy turning. Everyone was joining different teams. Plus their top guy was jarret. He could never draw. He was a good wrestler but their were tons of wrestlers that were better. And Nitro just had bad reatings cause it sucked, and for the past 2 monthes , besides tonight raw sucked.

 

[Defekt]

1) What was worse, the finger poke of doom or telling the world that Mankind won the WWF title?

This topic is kinda ill informed. There is really no reason to believe the WCW benefited from giving away WWE's results. In fact, it's pretty common knowledge that spoiling the Mankind world title win completely backfired on WCW, and resulted in 600,000 people changing the channel the moment those words left Tony Schiavoni's mouth.


2) If these incidents were not to occur, do you think that WCW could of eventually run away and put WWF out of business or were they always destined to lose?[/B]

There were so many problems with WCW, there is no way any one incident, no matter how detrimental, could be identified as causing the organization's downfall. I think most people would agree that WCW's reliance on established wrestlers, and reluctance to create new stars was the biggest fault leading to it's downfall.

 

[My Couch Pulls Out But I Don't]

1. The finger poke of doom was worse from a fans point of view. would you wanna pay money to end up seeing that?

2. Neither one of these events would have ultimately caused the downfall of WCW but I can see how some people would think that.

WCW was afraid to push younger stars (ex...Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn...) Which is why these guys ended up leaving. WCW was content on pushing Hogan, Nash, Flair, Sting to the top and keeping them there. Goldberg was the only one that started out and made it to the top, but was eventually knocked all thew way back down due to poor booking by, I believe, Kevin Nash at this point. (May be wrong). Letting the older stars run the show and half of them book themselves caused the eventual death of WCW.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

1) What was worse, the finger poke of doom or telling the world that Mankind won the WWF title?

The Finger Poke of Doom because it was a stupid move by allowing their World Title to be treated for that.

2) If these incidents were not to occur, do you think that WCW could of eventually run away and put WWF out of business or were they always destined to lose?

Nope, but neither did these events were the main cause of the demise of WCW. In fact the I would say the Finger Poke of Doom's affect on WCW was greatly exaggerated. Though I guess once WWE won the Monday Night Wars they are able to dictate how we precieve history and one of their perceptions was that the Finger Poke of Doom lead to the downfall of WCW.

While the Finger Poke was stupid the WWE/F has done a lot things almost as idiotic with their world titles in the past. Hogan winning the World Title at WMIX over their two young guys, Nash winning the World Title in a House Show in less than 10 seconds, The Montreal Screw Job (yes at the time WWF was ciritized with this move before it became an "act of genius") and Vince winning the Championship are things that could be argued are just as stupid as the Finger Poke of Doom.

Yep the WWE survived these ordeals. It's the accomulated evens before and after the finger poke of doom that killed WCW. Stupid things like letting Nash end Goldberg's streak, not saving Goldberg's title win on PPV, signing the Ultimate Warrior, one month title reigns during 1999, no continunity in their stories, KISS, Giving David Flair a push, just to name a few.

 

[Jackal960]

1) Finger poke of doom had a worse effect. BUT... The reason for that is not changing the title via a finger poke. Actually we had seen some worse in WWE in 97. Finger poke of doom was a fail because, we were seeing the same movie again and again... and again! Which will bring me to the second answer:

2) WCW would fail eventually. Because there were no new talents on the main event picture. They went with NWO for too long. They could make Sting win at Starrcade clean in 97, they could decide not to bury Goldberg after the finger poke of doom. They could make Benoit, Jericho, Eddie etc put their mark on WCW and make "the return of wcw" against nwo. Then we might had the monday night wars way longer. Eventually God knows who would come out with a victory

 

[Patou27]

well I think Arquette winning the World Championship was worst than both... but yeah the fingerpoke alienated me as fan but it was just a drop of water in what was wrong with WCW... Benoit,Melanko,Guerrero,Saturn leaving because WCW decided to put Kevin Sullivan as booker...Nash being booker and deciding it was time to end Goldberg streak to his benefit...Vince Rousso winning the title... young stars not being push to main even status ... the reason WCW went over is the NWO storyline which was great in the beginning but near the end it got real boring on all points...just the final show redeemed it tough was an awesome show

 

[relentless1]

i think the fingerpoke could have worked had the over arching storyline ended up being the young guys vs the old guys in the form of the nWo wolfpac vs wcw, pull the swerve and have sting join with hogan, have flair screw over goldberg so you have the nWo as all the old guys ( Hogan Hall Nash Flair Sting Luger Macho Man Stiener Henning DDP) vs WCW, all the young guys ( Goldberg Benoit Jericho Saturn Guerrerro Malenko Booker T Bagwell Shane Douglas Konnan Rey Mysterio) this couldve been a great, natural way to do the new blood/ millionaires club angle a year earlier and i think the young guys wouldve gotten over huge under the leadership of goldberg.

 

[covieo81]

although im sure the finger poke of doom and mentioning foleys title win didnt help i believe it was more the astronimical salaries half the roster was getting and ill conceived storylines that did em in. billionaire ted was rich but come on at some point you gotta sit back and say hey my show is rated number one but im losing money....wtf... hence the reason im sure for aol/time werner merge and subsequent cancellation. first thing that happens with any buy out or merger is cutting yer overhead by elimanting what isnt making you money. coupled with the same ol storylines over and over people got bored. wcw was dead before jarret took over. i dont like jarret and imo could never carry a company but it wasnt his fault. he just happened to be the lowest paid ex wwe guy so they went with him while the other "top" draws sat back and collected a paycheck.

 

[SydTinDad]

The horse was already out of the barn behind the curtain at this time. WCW was slowly starting the downward spiral, story lines were poor, moral was low, and people were having thier intelligence insulted.

For that particular night, the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was the jab and announcing Foley as winning the title was the knockout blow for the evening.

But again, WCW was already starting to resemble a set of shrivled up testicals by that time. This was just the biggest 'WTF" of many that preceeded and followed.

 

[J.J.]

You know I stopped watching WCW as frequently when they made Jim Duggan an Anti-American. How could they do that to him? Or who could forget Misfits in Action? Chavo Guerrero and Pepe? OWN(One Warrior Nation). Or who could forget Master P's frequent appearances? The mid card beginning to collapse is what started to doom WCW to me. WCW kept you interested in their show with an interesting mid card with the luchadors which for whatever reason they started unmasking. That midcard is what kept us on our toes till the main event, which lost its credibility.. David Arquette was the icing on the cake. Oh and Tony Schiavone!

But on the business side of things I believe the AOL buyout really effected the company.

Sadly some of WCWs downfalls resurfaced in WWE.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

although im sure the finger poke of doom and mentioning foleys title win didnt help i believe it was more the astronimical salaries half the roster was getting and ill conceived storylines that did em in. billionaire ted was rich but come on at some point you gotta sit back and say hey my show is rated number one but im losing money....wtf... hence the reason im sure for aol/time werner merge and subsequent cancellation. first thing that happens with any buy out or merger is cutting yer overhead by elimanting what isnt making you money. coupled with the same ol storylines over and over people got bored. wcw was dead before jarret took over. i dont like jarret and imo could never carry a company but it wasnt his fault. he just happened to be the lowest paid ex wwe guy so they went with him while the other "top" draws sat back and collected a paycheck.

Yeah I think this true as well. Yeah Nitro was beating RAW in the Rating but I always wondered how much profit were they earning considering their expensive contracts to big names, more extravagant facilities at the time, and giving away PPV's for free.

My guess is that even though WCW was winning the war back in late 95 to early 98, their financial situation was not that diffrent. Sure WWF was losing money but I would think so was WCW. Only diffrence Ted Turner had his Time Warner corporation to make up the loses WCW made.

No begs another, somewhat related, What If Quesion

Even if WCW won the War and WWF went out of business. How will WCW run as the only "big name in town?". Let's say WWF went out of business in 1998. What would have happened then?

I believe if WCW won the war it would have killed the Wrestling Industry or revert back to its independent territory days.

WCW was destined to implode no matter what the WWE was doing. The mismanagment plauged in WCW and the ego running it would have caused it to loose money eventually and once the AOL/Time Warner merger took place they would have cut off WCW regardless.

Does anyone think this would have happend. Is that if WCW won the war it would have destroyed the wrestling in the mainstream in the long run? Would we have 5 diffrent TNA size promotions as opposed to what we have now? Or would Vince McMahon bought WCW after the AOL/Time Warner Merger?

 

[Dagger Dias]

1) What was worse, the finger poke of doom or telling the world that Mankind won the WWF title?

The Fingerpoke of Doom was far worse. Revealing Mankind's win was a shady tactic that was meant to cause people to not switch over to WWF if they already knew what was going to happen. It backfired when people did in fact want to see him win despite having it spoiled. The Fingerpoke of Doom, on the other hand, was an insult to fans everywhere. It showed that they did not care and was one of the lowest moments WCW ever provided.

2) If these incidents were not to occur, do you think that WCW could of eventually run away and put WWF out of business or were they always destined to lose?

WWF would still have won somehow in the end. WCW didn't create any stars other than Goldberg and when they ruined his undefeated streak they had no one else who could realistically replace Hogan or Nash at the top. WWF on the other hand built up a crop of stars including some of the greatest names in pro wrestling history such as Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind, Triple H, etc. WCW would have to erase other garbage moments from their history too such as the David Arquette angle, Vince Russo winning the WCW Championship, and countless failed opportunities at creating new stars. They relied too much on the nWo and erasing the Fingerpoke as well as the Mankind spoiler would not be enough to change history due to how many mistakes they made as a company.

 

[AnthonyM4]

1) The Finger Poke of Doom. What was supposed to be a big rematch between Goldberg vs Nash turns into Hogan coming out of retirement and then the finger poke turns out to be a swerve. How disappointing! If Goldberg vs Nash happened maybe they would have won that night against Mankind winning the title.

2) I think wcw was always destined to lose. They didn't have the passion and drive Vince had. Plus they had a lot of people in Time Warner that didn't really care about wcw and wrestling at all. WCW was more concerned about ratings than making money and Vince was the other way around and it's more important to make money.

 

[justtxyank]

Which was worse? Easily the fingerpoke of doom. The Mankind thing was fine. So what if fans tuned over that night. That wasn't the first time the WWF beat them in the ratings. WCW could always get fans back.

The Fingerpoke however was deadly. Fans had invested so much in the end of the nWo and the subsequent rise of the Wolfpac. Nash was megaover, Hogan was getting a lot of X-Pac heat at that point and the fans wanted to root for Nash and Hall. Go watch the WW3 tape where Nash saves Hall from an nWo beatdown and the crowd erupts thinking the Outsiders will reunite. That's what fans wanted.

To have two years of storylines (Sting taking down the nWo and then the Wolfpac split) ultimately mean absolutely nothing as the nWo reunited and tried the "We planned this all along" schtick was the ultimate slap in the face. A lot of fans gave up. What was the point?

To your second question, no. WCW would never have survived and run the WWF out of business. To think otherwise is to not understand history.

The AOL Time Warner merger killed WCW. There was no way for WCW to survive when that happened because the new executives wanted to completely rebrand their networks. Not only did they not want to own WCW, they didn't want anything wrestling related on their networks whatsoever. This made it impossible for other interested parties to buy WCW because there was nowhere to put the show.

The second part is the WWF going out of business. WCW didn't "almost" put the WWF out of business, steroids and Vince McMahon did. Once Vince took the company public he had enough capital that nothing was ever going to make them fall to a competitor.

TLDR version: Fingerpoke was worse, WCW would have died no matter what due to TimeWarner merger with AOL and the WWF was never going to go out of business because of the capital they raised.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... do you think that WCW could of eventually run away and put WWF out of business or were they always destined to lose?

I believe they were destined to lose, regardless of whether they could have put WWE out of business or not.

Even as McMahon started fighting back, the Wall Street Journal reported that WCW was losing between $60-80 million per year. Because they had an immense corporate backer (Time-Warner) they were able to pour dollars into their product to the point that they never realistically could have put their organization on a paying basis. For a time, Time-Warner was willing to keep throwing good money after bad, but even a mega-corporation is going to reach their breaking point. All divisions have to eventually pay for themselves.....and I don't see how WCW ever could have.

Given the way the powers-that-be at WCW conducted business, they were destined to fail.