Why all the hate on the Finger Poke Of Doom?

[FlairFan2003]

I have to disagree with two points here. First off, wasn't Hollywood Hogan being cheered about a month after the Fingerpoke of Doom? I do not believe it established them as terrible heels and if it did, it certainly didn't last long.

Also, with the Andre the Giant situation, the storyline was booked all along so that Andre would "deliver" the belt to Ted DiBiase. They even had an interview on SuperStars where Ted purchased Andre's contract and asked the Giant to deliver to World Heavyweight Championship to him. So I have no problem with Andre handing the title over to DiBiase because it was the deal the entire time and it fits perfectly with the Million Dollar Man character. To add to that, the twin referees angle was not only one of the greatest angles in history because of the execution, the rating (over 33 million watching), but also the aftermath- Macho Man winning the title and the subsequent Mega Powers angle.

There are stories that Nash (as Booker) asked Hogan to drop the title to Flair at SuperBrawl 99 PPV. Flair was red hot and had been promised a title win when he dropped his lawsuit against Bischoff. Hogan refused, claiming he wanted at least one more PPV win before losing. There is some debate that neither has ever fully satisfied about why the storyline changed after that...supposedly Hogan wanted a face run and Flair agreed to get him over as a Fan fave in exchange for the title, on face value while that maybe believable (Hogan had been a heel for awhile and with Goldberg's continued popularity, Flair's popularity, and the impending return from IR of Sting there was a good chance a heel champ might not last long) at the very least it seems like a bad business move, not only allowing Hogan to bury to Goldberg at the height of his popularity but also kill the NWO reformation AND ruin Flair's return....it was a bad move business wise on several levels.

Regardless of who politicked for what and why Nash agreed and we got the horrible double turn, made worse by being held in KY, the heart of "Flair Country" where even if his Four Horsemen days he would have commanded large portions of the crowd cheering him (they should have staged the double turn further North East closer to WWE territory where Hogan might not have been so disliked, the only thing worse would have been booking it in CAR or GA).

In the end that is why Hogan ended up leaving the NWO and turning face. Goldberg continued to languish on the mid card, Steiner basically fell off the map with the NWO destroyed, Flair still wasn't in Bischoff's good graces so his title run was cut short and with ratings sagging after DDP got the belt rather than try and build around someone who was fairly over and new to the #1 spot Nash immediately booked himself Champ. The returns of Sting and Brett Hart were inconsequential and Hogan took most of the spring off anyway after all that to have knee surgery.

I still think the actual original FPOD was brilliant....the potential was fantastic storyline wise...the execution was horrible afterwards, a whole lot of potential cash flushed down the toilet.

As far as ratings were concerned Nitro twice popped ratings over the 5.0 mark in Feb 99 AFTER the FPOD despite airing against RAW. Initially, at least leading into SuperBrawl, it didn't hurt WCW's numbers it helped them, more proof that the initial angle was popular but the execution moving forward was not.

 

[Vader]

Because it completely debased the World title. Why would a wrestler simply give away the most prestigious belt in the company?

No one is saying that is sole reason WCW went under, however it was a large contributing factor and the worst decision they made during that time. Late 1998 WCW was loaded with talent and couldn't capitalize.

 

[Just Do It]

All I'll say is, watching it live as a fan, I wasn't bored...

 

[klunderbunker]

Among many other reasons, it doesn't make sense. What did Nash gain from this? He conquered the streak legally (remember Starrcade was No DQ) and had the belt that he had wanted for years, but he just hands it to Hogan, basically saying "I don't want this. You take it." No explanation was ever given as to why Nash did it, so it never made sense. Couple that with one of the best moments ever on Raw the same night and you have a bad moment being compared to a great one.

On top of all that though, it was Hogan as champion. Again. I know he's the biggest star ever and took WCW to new heights, but it was time for something new. People just were not interested in yet another Hogan title reign. He had been champion for the majority of the last four and a half years and now we were getting it again, basically erasing the last six months of progress.

It was a bad idea with an ending people didn't want to see and compared to seeing someone new getting the title on Raw, there was just nothing good about it other than shock value.

 

[SHANE]

I think the remaining WCW audience at the time were fed up after the FPOD, especially the Goldberg fans.

There were still quite a large amount of fans tuning into both WCW and WWF shows at the time but this seemed to be the reason for the real concern of WCW failing.

There was no coming back after that one.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

So why all the hate for this segment? Especially over some other WCW failures which in my eyes are a lot worse.

Good question.

I think WWE revisionist history (with winning the Monday night wars and all) oversold how instrumental the angle is to the demise of WCW.

I was a WWF guy during the Monday night wars but I did manage to watch the Finger Poke of Doom Nitro spoiler free. Really the angle alone was not that bad, now I can understand if this happened on PPV but the whole angle played out at free TV. I mean if we are going to be upset about main event matches that were hyped but end up not starting how about McMahon vs. Austin right after WM14?

I think if WCW played their cards right, had Goldberg feud with the nWo and come out winning in the next few months and leading to the disbandment of nWo. The Finger Poke of Doom wouldn't have been that bad. The hero would have come out on top getting his revenge and moving on to new fresher angles.

Instead what we saw was non-nonsensical angles with no continuity from one month to the next and weekly titles changes (heck there was one Nitro before Spring Stampede where the title changed twice and a total of like 4 title changes in a month!).

 

[rmp0012002]

Most people like myself didn't see it live as we had switched over to Raw to see Foley win the belt. It didn't kill WCW but that Nitro was the culmination of things that started the beginning of the end.
It should have been a great angle but its time had passed and the NWO should have been put to rest. Instead it was a case of the egos of Nash,Hall,Hogan and Bischoff putting themselves above the company and led to awful booking. It made one NWO of the top guys and one of the lesser guys, that wasn't going to work other than feed their egos. It also left guys like Goldberg in the middle with nothing to do.
When you start booking on ego and not good ideas things start to fall apart quickly.

 

[therockiswwf]

Two things wrong with it.

A) Nash handed over the world title. Handed. THE WORLD TITLE. How in the fuck is that a good idea?

B) Why reform them? WCW needed to move onto other stories. Instead it kept being NWO. It was played out by the end of 97. But they kept chugging along with it and kept bringing it back.

Other than that it was perfect.

 

[Daggdag]

Yeah, the comparison to MitB is asinine. There is a match in that case, and there's a logical reason for why the match is so short...but that's not my issue with the Fingerpoke of Dumbassery.

It was for the World Title! The supposed reason that every wrestler ever gets into wrestling...to be the champion! It wasn't the WWF Hardcore Comedy title, and it wasn't for the WWF Light Heavyweight European Only Defended on a Friday Belt.

Why should I as a fan give a shit about any title match ever again if you tell me your belt isn't even worth fighting over? If Kevin Nash can't be bothered to care, why should I?

And as for whether they won the Monday Night Wars is irrelevant. I checked out largely BECAUSE of that (and thankfully missed the David Arquette nonsense. THAT made me laugh because by that point WCW was laughable on the whole.)

Also, fans paid top dollar to see a full match. It's unfair to the fans to build up a match so big*just to have Nash do an unexplained random heel turn and transform into Hogans bitch.

BS like that is why Russo is so hated by fans. He does not care about the fans paying to see a show. He does whatever meaningless, random twists he can think of because he thinks they are cool. He is the M. Night Shyamalan of wrestling bookers.

 

[Daggdag]

"The thing is, Goldberg had ran through everyone on the roster already. There wasn't going to be some up and comer rising out of the mid card to beat him, because he decimated anyone who was mid card."

Hogan domnated the scene for the better part of two years, you're telling me Goldberg could only do it for 6 months? At this point he hadn't faced the Macho Man, they brought Sid in the next year, Big Poppa Pump and Booker T rose through the ranks, yes there were plenty of opponents for him to face. The fans wanted to see more Goldberg.

"Think about how it would have gone down if a legit match took place. Okay, let's say Nash goes over or retains. Fans will still be pissed that Goldberg got screwed and it would case heat for Nash. You don't want to have that much heat on one of your top faces like that. Then there would have had to be a rematch. To protect what Goldberg was at the time, it would likely had to have been a dirty finish, which is still bad for Nash, or Goldberg would regain the title. If Goldberg wins it back from Nash, everything is just the same as it was with the exception of Goldberg having that blemish on his record"

Then they should've kept the belt on Goldberg.

"Now let's back up and say that Hogan won the match against Nash. This would essentially put things back to the way things were before Goldberg won the title. Hogan as champ feuding with Goldberg and Nash. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because that worked well for them, but if they were gonna go that route it would look bad on Nash. The guy just did the unthinkable, by beating Goldberg, and then loses the next night?"

So instead they reset to how it was before the nWo split? How about you don't reset at all and let your top face rule the roost?

"It also worked well for Goldberg because the NWOs weren't feuding with each other so they were able to attack him, cuff hime, taze him, paint him, etc without the ther faction running in for the save. This meant Goldberg would look strong because the only reason he was getting beaten and not winning his belt back was because the two factions were doing a number on him."

Goldberg was never the same after this, how was it successful? He never looked strong again(at least as strong as he once did), and it doesn't matter how may people beat him down, Goldberg used to routinely take out the entire nWo, now he's helpless against them? They did the same dumb shit with Sting. In 97 Sting could take on the entire nWo single-handedly, then you fast forward a year and he's getting manhandled by like 3 nWo guys, killed that character the same way it hurt Goldbergs.

No one with any sense wanted to see Goldberg. He was a joke. He "decimated" opponants because squash matches were the only way he could look strong. He was and is one of the most untalented, overrated wastes of space in the history of pro wrestling.

 

[Vader]

No one with any sense wanted to see Goldberg. He was a joke. He "decimated" opponants because squash matches were the only way he could look strong. He was and is one of the most untalented, overrated wastes of space in the history of pro wrestling.

You say that, but at the time the Georgia Dome sold out that very night because they were expecting a Nash v. Goldberg rematch. While I will agree he was overrated; and was shabby on the microphone, coming to the ring and talking for 30 minutes wasn't his gimmick. Goldberg was a big, athletic guy, and had an athletic sets of moves.

Not saying this is you, but many posters on here go around bashing guys like Cena and Goldberg who have performed finishers on the big show, but get tingly feelings for someone like Daniel Bryan who struggles to squat 225.

 

[Vader]

Despite what many would say, the Wolfpack storyline gave the NWO (and WCW) a life line and had the whole Bloods v. Crips feel. Reforming them killed that.

I wouldn't say it was what killed WCW at that very moment, but it started the downfall.

Look at what WCW did after the Finger Poke. They went to a Horsemen vs NWO feud. Okay fine, are you going to push Benoit through all this? No? It's going to be Flair vs Hogan again? Okay...

While 1999 WCW was more entertaining then what the WWE is doing now it wasn't helpful. Flair started out as a face against the NWO, and then in a double turn, became a heel in one night and Hogan became a face at Uncensored. Now the NWO are faces and the Horsemen are heels? That entire following month made no sense.

 

[Nick-Neuro]

Despite what many would say, the Wolfpack storyline gave the NWO (and WCW) a life line and had the whole Bloods v. Crips feel. Reforming them killed that.

I wouldn't say it was what killed WCW at that very moment, but it started the downfall.

Look at what WCW did after the Finger Poke. They went to a Horsemen vs NWO feud. Okay fine, are you going to push Benoit through all this? No? It's going to be Flair vs Hogan again? Okay...

While 1999 WCW was more entertaining then what the WWE is doing now it wasn't helpful. Flair started out as a face against the NWO, and then in a double turn, became a heel in one night and Hogan became a face at Uncensored. Now the NWO are faces and the Horsemen are heels? That entire following month made no sense.

What I think was going on here is that someone came up with an "innovative" idea to keep fans guessing from week to week, trying to keep things unpredictable which somehow would translate to better ratings since, you know, people might catch interest to see what the new thing will be the next week.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

The hate for TFPOD is because it made WCW and its World Title look meaningless. It was also getting tiresome of seeing Nash and Hogan hogging the headline matches and that is why WCW went down the shitter!

 

[relentless1]

The finger poke itself was a brilliant move, what came after is why it looked so shitty a choice in retrospect. For all those who say that it didn't make sense for Nash to do what he did; he's a heel, thats what heels do! On top of that Nash did give an explanation (vague), said he did it for the money basically. People in real sports do that all the time, its called taking a dive... Had they allowed Goldberg to remain centre stage; running through the Wolfpack to get to Hogan, then the story would have worked. Also getting rid of the B team and elevating the Horsemen in the feud (Benoit and Malenko)

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Finger Poke of Doom would have been fine if it meant Goldberg would take out Hall, Nash, then Hogan on different PPV's win the title then have a 6-Man Tag team at Bash at the Beach in which if Goldberg's team wins the NWO would disband.

But that didn't happen instead the Finger Poke of Doom didn't lead to any meaningful story lines. Turned Flair heel for some bizarre reason and Hogan just suddenly turned face for some reason.

Like I always said on it's own the Finger Poke of Doom wasn't a bad thing if WWE could manage to salvage something great with the Montreal Screwjob no reason WCW couldn't do the same with the Finger Poke f Doom.

 

[TDFG]

When people think to what killed WCW, the finger poke of doom often is the first reason.

It certainly helped WCW go into decline, but the booking of a lot of it's main guys while preventing any new stars from breaking out was the problem for WCW.

People had gotten sick of endless turns by Flair, Luger, Hart, Nash etc. and they also got sick of seeing the same guys and other veterans in the main event.

Had the finger poke of doom lead to a false dawn of NWO unity and have Goldberg, Sting, Booker T finish them once and for all then it might have worked.

 

[Slash-LN]

Imagine if today Randy Orton was feuding with the authority and beat Seth Rollins for the WWE title and then he was going to put the title on the line against Triple H on RAW.

Finally getting a chance to see Orton take Triple H out. You've been sitting through RAW waiting for this match and then it's match time and less than a minute in, Triple H pokes Randy Orton in the chest and Orton throws himself onto the mat and lets Triple H pin him for the title and not only that, but they hug and become friends again.

Wouldn't that be a shitty payoff to a feud?

Now taking into consideration how pissed off so many fans were about Nash being the one to finally end Goldberg's reign so there's already some some anger at the company there. Quite a bit in fact.

It felt like a big slap in the face to the fans at the time. It was just a really shitty payoff.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Imagine if today Randy Orton was feuding with the authority and beat Seth Rollins for the WWE title and then he was going to put the title on the line against Triple H on RAW.

Finally getting a chance to see Orton take Triple H out. You've been sitting through RAW waiting for this match and then it's match time and less than a minute in, Triple H pokes Randy Orton in the chest and Orton throws himself onto the mat and lets Triple H pin him for the title and not only that, but they hug and become friends again.

Wouldn't that be a shitty payoff to a feud?

Now taking into consideration how pissed off so many fans were about Nash being the one to finally end Goldberg's reign so there's already some some anger at the company there. Quite a bit in fact.

It felt like a big slap in the face to the fans at the time. It was just a really shitty payoff.

Exactly. It literally made no sense whatsoever. Hogan and Nash were bitter rivals all throughout 98, it made no sense for them suddenly to be in on it the whole time. Also they took the hottest thing in wrestling and ended it, only for Nash to turn around and just basically forfeit the title to Hogan.

Goldberg was far and away the most over guy in the company, Nash was probably 2nd. Hogan was way down the list at that time. People were really tired of him. Think Cena times 5. So it would be like a white hot Rollins(multiplied times 10 since that's how over Goldberg was) losing to lets say a Dean Ambrose(who was probably close to how over Nash was) at Mania. People maybe upset that Rollins lost but atleast he lost to Ambrose who was really over too. Then the next Raw they advertise Ambrose vs. Cena for the title. So Ambrose just lays down and lets Cena beat him and Cena is the champ again. So they essentially buried their 2 hottest guys just to put the belt back on the guy that everybody is tired of.

Now think of how bad that would be and pretend that Cena and Ambrose feuded for the whole year before. Those reasons are why the finger poke of doom sucked and get hated on.

 

[Wald]

If you take the Fingerpoke as an isolated angle than it looks good. A heel stable reforming after screwing over the top babyface in the company for the belt and now looking dominant again. All fine.

However, you have to keep in mind that this stable had basically dominated the entire company for 30 straight months at that point, that the guy they just put the belt back on had been champion for 18 of those months, that the company had already formed a name for itself of giving lame finishes and no pay-offs to feuds, came exactly one year after they the Sting v Hogan debacle and that they had essentially ruined the gimmick of their top babyface to do it.

It was an unmitigated mess and was the tipping point for a lot of fans when it came to WCW. Their ratings didn't start to tank for months afterwards but whatever rot Starrcade 97 brought in to the company was escalated greatly by the Fingerpoke. Why should we as fans buy in to WCW feuds when they give us payoffs like those two? Sting was the most babyface in the world at Starrcade 97 and they screwed it up to keep Hogan on top. Goldberg was the company's most over babyface and the second most over babyface in the world at Starrcade 98 and they screwed it up to put Hogan back on top. Why bother with WCW after that when the WWF really started kicking things up a gear with the acquisition of the Giant, with DX about to split and with the Rock and Austin getting set to face each other at Wrestlemania XV?

Note how the Rock v Austin had an actual satisfying finish to their encounter that kept their feud going for another PPV before springboarding the Rock in to a babyface run whilst putting Austin up against the Corporate Ministry. That's how you book your main event, not how WCW was doing it.

 

[whoopin' ass]

I think it's because of how poorly it was told. You had Goldberg lose the title the night before and a lot of people didn't think the time was right. Then he is supposed to get his rematch but can't get back from the police station which is literally across the street from the arena. Then you get the fingerpoke of doom. I think it was just too much at once and rubbed people the wrong way.

Personally I had no problem with Goldberg losing. It had to happen at some point and like a lot of faces, it is more exciting to have him chance the title. With the fingerpoke, I think they could have done it better. The concept was fine - "ha ha, we fooled you again" - but maybe they should have waited a week so the fans cooled down a little. Also think Hogan's delivery was bad - had he just kept going instead of doing that pause so everyone had time to figure out what was happening, it would have worked better. Plus it was a meaningless thing to do. You could have put the nWo back together without it, Nash could have stayed champ and feuded with Goldberg instead of Hogan. I think people see it as nothing but a way to get the belt back on Hogan and it ticked them off. Can't say I disagree in that aspect - there were better ways to get to their goal than to do that.