Phoenix Region, Vancouver Subregion: Second Round: (10) Owen Hart vs. (7) Kevin Nash

[Janice]

Ah! I need to settle some things before all of you go and vote Kevin Nash, and act like Owen Hart couldn't beat him. School and lack of sleep have got in the way of me preparing some posts so I'm going freestyle, but this is bogus. Who did Owen Hart beat? Oh yeah, Yokozuna. The whole kayfabe argument is much out of hand, Owen could beat people bigger than him and the earlier you realise that the better. The sharpshooter? Nash could get out of sure, and the pile driver would have no chance here but are we taking into affect the training Owen was given? Do you not think he'd know how to submit or defeat a big man? Kevin Nash was always slow and while he was a lot more beastly back in his prime, that wouldn't matter. Owen was a ton more athletic and a ton quicker, he would've beaten Kevin Nash by a simple count out, couldn't have he? We also need to add in the fact he'd have at least Jim Niedhart in his corner most likey a long with Jimmy Hart. Everyone respected Owen Hart, everyone loved Owen Hart, and anyone would've kept though friends of Nash out and they were what finished most of Nash's matches off anyways.

Is everyone in the locker room fully respected and loved the way Owen was? Nobody, maybe the Undertaker. If you all like to say how he is so overrated than why did everyone love him, why was he given great opportunities match wise that he cashed in on and why is it that when the RAW Is Owen episode went on air, it broke records for the highest ratings they had ever gotten? People loved Owen Hart and they did it for a god damn reason! His mic work doesn't compare to the Rock or anything so you can't simply say "All the fans adore him just because his mic skills" because that wasn't the truth. Owen made some of the swiftest transitions from heel to face and face to heel, he was so much better than any of you are giving him credit for! And also, if he sucked so badly and if he is one of the most overrated dead wrestlers, why the hell did he beat his brother at Wrestlemania? His insanely pushed, and strongly backed brother? Just because the WWF staff felt bad for him? Hahaha, it's not funny.

Owen never left the WWF, never once. He stayed loyal to Vince and his company until he passed away and to give him absolutely no respect for that is awful. What has Kevin Nash done to warrant him a win over Owen Hart? A guy that would have the crowd fully on his side and three times the talent of his opponent. Kevin is sloppy, he went out each and every time thinking he would just pound the guy and the match would be done with. Owen would exploit this and Owen would destroy him! Owen would've had his brother, his family, all helping him prepare for this and he would've had Kevin's every move scouted out and analyzed. And what about Owen winning the King of the Ring when it meant something? It was when he went through Yokozuna and he proved that he shows up for the big time matches, this would be a big time match for him. Another thing, Owen faced Vader and while Vader did beat him, Owen made him look absolutely stellar while doing it and even that was not a squash, he came within a few seconds of beaten the guy and he fricking slammed him! OWEN slammed Vader. Do you understand? Can you process this? Owen would win, so vote him, not Nash, gawd, definitely not Nash.

 

[Slyfox696]

The fact Owen never had a world title means shit honestly.

Actually, it means enough people didn't enjoy him enough to pay to watch him. So it means he wasn't as enjoyable as Nash.

There are so many factors as to why

The main one being he wasn't good enough.

it is irrelevant & is an insult to his ability.

Actually, his lack of a world title is indicative of his ability.

Nash's WWF title run was decent, at best, & the kliq had alot to do with him being in the spotlight.

So did the fact people loved him.

His booking in WCW was cause for his title runs (dosent mean as much if you just hand yourelf the belt). Nash was pretty good on the mic & definatley had a crowd behind him.

[/thread]

Nash wins.

He has a great following. He is a great big man. Unfortunately this isnt a fucking popularity contest.

Actually, wrestling IS a big popularity contest. The best wrestlers are the ones people are the most willing to pay to see. They would pay to see Nash, not Owen.

Nash is highly injury prone, even in his prime.

He was? This is news to me.

Owen was never the biggest, (but the Hart family loved to make the big guys cry like babies), nor the strongest.

Or the best.

Dosent mean he cant beat Nash. If Owen was alive today he would have as many if not more titles than Nash.

No he wouldn't. He wouldn't have any more titles than he died with. Do you really think he would have won a world title over Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Angle, Lesnar, Hogan, etc.?

Not a chance. He was a career midcarder.

What has Kevin Nash done to warrant him a win over Owen Hart?

Pretty certain I covered this:

D-Man, you're great and all, but if you divide Kevin Nash's prime up into two parts, his WWF run and his WCW run, both parts of his prime individually are still more impressive than Owen's entire career.

On one side, Nash was a Triple Crown WWF Champion, winning the Tag Titles twice, the IC once and the World title once, as well as main-eventing a Wrestlemania and retaining his title. On the other side, Nash was a multiple time WCW World Champion, multiple time WCW Tag Champion, and one of the main players in the group which revolutionized wrestling.

No matter which prime you take, Kevin Nash is better than Owen Hart.

Yup.

 

[Teddy Irving]

This whole arguement of Nash having held multiple world titles(which is true) isn't particularly viable to hold against the king of harts. The man died and so you can't just say well he never would have won a title. The fact is that although Owen was a small guy vince was pretty high on him. He beat Bret clean at WM10, not on just any old free show like raw, but on the grandest stage of them all and at a milestone one at that. He won the King of the Ring when it actually meant something to win the damn thing.
Owen is 10x the wrestler Nash ever was or could ever even dream of being, and i can't imagine anyone arguing that point. But if you wish to look at the people that said that watching owen is what made them want to become a wrestler, Chris Jericho for one. The guy was a phenomenal worker and to say he is over rated just because he is dead is truly unfair. The guy was great in the ring and had the ability to beat people his own size and bigger opponents.
As for mic skills Nash was horrible on the mic for a long time and the more he was on the mic the better he got. Did Owen have the chance and the time to gain this improvement? Unfortunetly no he did not, who is to say that owens mic work wouldn't have improved over time? Nobody thats who.

Now I am not trying to say that Nash doesn't have a chance in this match because that is ludacrious. The guy is 7ft tall and powerhouse. He does have the tools to beat owen but on the flip side owen has the tools to beat him aswell. With his training and helpful tips from brother bret(who has beaten nash) i give owen the win in this match here.

 

[JGlass]

When Nash was at the top of his game, he could steamroll over anybody, regardless of how technically proficient they were, and that includes Owen Hart. The match would start with Owen getting tossed around for a while before the younger Hart got in some offense of his own. After about five-seven minutes of wearing Nash down, Owen would start to try to finish him off, but Nash would catch his second win and annihilate Owen and any chance he had of winning.

Sorry Owen marks, your boy is good, real good, but Nash is too dominant.

 

[ABMorales787]

I'm going with Kevin Nash. Besides the many reasons already mentioned, Owen was nowhere near the size of Nash. Given the fact that even though Nash was slow, he was still pretty damn good at keeping up the pace. That's something many other big guys like Mark Herny or Abyss can't do. He was a smart competitor. Maybe he leaned too much on politics, but that still doesn't erase the fact that the man knew just as much about ring psychology as any other expert. Even in his 50's he can put on a match.

Owen can try and be as technical as a mastermind as he wants, but unlike his brother, Owen's size plays a huge disadvantage for him. He's wrestling a man well over a foot taller and well over 100 pounds heavier. Bring the Mysterio argument all you like, but Owen's a technician. Not a high flyer. He needs to grab his opponent. Dangerous place to be when fighting such a heavy brawler like Nash.

 

[Janice]

Actually, it means enough people didn't enjoy him enough to pay to watch him. So it means he wasn't as enjoyable as Nash.

The main one being he wasn't good enough.

Actually, his lack of a world title is indicative of his ability.

So did the fact people loved him.

[/thread]

Nash wins.

Actually, wrestling IS a big popularity contest. The best wrestlers are the ones people are the most willing to pay to see. They would pay to see Nash, not Owen.

He was? This is news to me.

Or the best.

No he wouldn't. He wouldn't have any more titles than he died with. Do you really think he would have won a world title over Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Angle, Lesnar, Hogan, etc.?

Not a chance. He was a career midcarder.

Pretty certain I covered this:



Yup.

1 Seriously? People didn't pay to see Owen Hart? Honestly? The guy got cheers wherever he went as a face, so that isn't a sign of affection anymore? Wow! Is giving someone a middle finger now the national symbol of love? Come on. Nash was not more enjoyable than Owen, not by a long shot. He was rarely even enjoyable and when he was it was because he was being surrounded by the Kliq, who were able to shadow his lack of mic skills or anything interesting. People did not pay to see Nash, not him in particular, any more than they payed to see Owen Hart. The angles Owen was in like the one with his brother or the feud with Shawn were a hell of a lot more interest than wait, was was one memorable feud that Nash was even in, memorable for being good I mean. The first poster was right, just because Owen didn't get his hands on a WHC doesn't mean anything, you can't base the talent or a skill of a wrestler just on how many belts they've held.

2 Actually the main one being he was over enough that he didn't need one. Is your only argument the fact that because Owen didn't get his hands on a WHC, that he immediately has no chance against Nash because that is so not true. What about wrestling ability? Or connection with a crowd, or respect given, or something a long those lines? You're clinging to the title shtick because you can't defend Nash in any other way.

3 No it isn't! He beat Bret Hart, did Kevin Nash do that? He slammed Vader, he beat a 600 pound Samoan, he won King of the Ring, he won the tag titles when they meant something and made them mean even more and I'm sure others can go on and on. There were more than just Owen who deserved a WHC and didn't get one, there is only one title and that brings me to another point. WCW tossed their title around like it was nobodies business, the fact that it finally ended up getting around to Nash, doesn't impress me. And if Owen wouldn't have died and eventually went to WCW, he would've gotten the same opportunity. They took their WHC and they put it on person after person, don't deny.

4 Are you even listening the people you're quoting? You're using the same argument against quote after quote, you need to realise that Owen beats Nash in quite a few other categories too. The Kliq was a huge stable and like Nexus, it was going to bring a lot of light on the leader of it. That is how Nash got pushed, just like Nexus is how Barrett ultimately got pushed. It is not because they were full of talent and carried themselves to the top by their sheer talent, they were helped up to the top of the ladder, by a group of three or four men, with a ton of power. Get it through your head!

5 No comment, other than the guy you were quoting there might just have multiple personalities.

6 Are the most "popular" wrestlers the ones who win though? Even if Kevin Nash is in your mind more popular than Owen Hart which is complete bogus, I'll play along. What about when Shaemus beat John Cena for the championship? Shaemus was definitely the most liked or most popular, wasn't he? Sarcasm alert. John Cena was selling more merchandise than five mid carders combined and he still is. I don't like him but it just proves my point. And I don't know where your getting the fact people wanted to see Kevin Nash more and even if they did, it would be only because of what the Kliq as a group was doing, which contained HBK and HHH and more people that were so much better on the mic or connecting with the crowd than Kevin.

7 In 1981, he tore his anterior cruciate ligament in his knee which ended his college sports career. In March of 2003, he ended up getting a biceps injury. A couple months after in July, he tore his quadriceps which put him out for nine months. I think there was more but even this is enough, he is one of the most injury prone men in the wrestling world so yes, this is 100% true.

8 No he wasn't the best, but Kevin Nash wasn't either and when comparing the two, Owen was a lot closer to being the best than Nash. He was over, he had a good enough look, he could do so much more, could have the fans hating or loving any angle in seconds and he had so many different styles and could be technical guy, a high risk guy, submission guy or a tag team guy. He was everything thrown into one and definitely one impressive human being.

9 I don't think Owen would've beaten all those guys and neither do I think he would have held bunches and bunches of titles more if he would have lived on but he would have improved in a couple area's in my opinion, he would've put on at least a few more five star matches that would've shown all of you and hopefully he'd actually be going over Nash in this tournament. And Owen was always that underdog, always. He strived on it, bringing new to the table each match and surprising his opponents and while maybe he wouldn't have beaten all those men, I bet you he could've beaten a couple and put on five star matches on with all of them, even without either one carrying each other. Sure it could be a bit of an influence but you shouldn't solely base your vote on the fact Kevin has more titles, espiecally when Owen had at least a couple more years to improve his list. I do think it is pointless debating whether Owen would've had more titles because there is no way of telling, there is no time machines or rewinds or anything when it comes to death, and I know it'll be brought up whenever Owen fights anyone like Nash but it's just in my mind, a stupid category to base your votes on when a deceased is one of them wrestling.

 

[INDYjon22]

Kevin Nash should go over here. He was the bigger and stronger guy. Owen was no push over and could probably out wrestle Nash, but once Nash got his hands on Owen the match would be over. Nash would use his bigger frame and power moves to break Owen down en route to the Jackknife. Even if the match was to close, the Kliq or the NWO is better backup then the Hart clan.

 

[nightmare]

well sly, i got to hand it to you, you got me beat. but i have seen my fair share of wrestling & i do have some valid points you 'deconstructed'.

Vince likes big 'monster' guys he can book to steamroll the others. Especially during that time he won the title. Shawn got him the job, & he was booked as the 'badass body guard'. Yes he battled it out up the ladder before getting the strap, but that was alongside his good buddy HBK. Vince likes your look & you are in good with one of the boys.... you got the job & eventually the title. You get the title, vince gets his ticket sales. Dont mean he was better than anyone else. He was fed Bob Backlund to win the title- its not like he beat Jesus in a TLC match. LOL. He beat Shawn (....to get him over as a champ) He was booked over Sid (bc of a feud w\HBK), & he beat King Mabel. WOW, now thats talent. The crowd having your back dosent mean you can actually win a fight. Tickets sales also have something to do with other matches\ wrestlers on the card, not just who has the belt. (taker, bret....etc were a good reason for buying tickets back then) So good enough.... or right place\time?


Nash has had plenty of injuries, including the one that lead him to quit basketball & start wrestling. Nash has even tore his quad just walking across the ring. Injury prone, bad knees. Sharpshooter. Bret beat Nash for the title by breaking him down (just like owen would)

Ahem, titles dont always mean your better. More than a few legends never had a world title.


Fan favorites are the ones that fans are willing to pay to see. Dosent make them better wrestlers. By that admission, cena is a better wrestler than say... chris jericho? Nope. This tournament shouldnt be based on who sold the most shirts, or who looks cool. Im voting based on ability to defeat your opponent. Owen had better training & would wear Nash out.


vote how you want to folks. do you cast your vote for a guy based on popularity, or the fact he can whip the other guys ass in a match?

 

[Slyfox696]

This whole arguement of Nash having held multiple world titles(which is true) isn't particularly viable to hold against the king of harts. The man died and so you can't just say well he never would have won a title.

Uhh, what?

Yes, we can hold it against him. Not only did he never win a world title, at the time he died, he wasn't even close to holding a world title. And then to see the true talent that came after him, it's safe to say he never would have won a world title.

So yes, we can hold it against him. Owen was in the business for over ten years, and the closest he came to sniffing a world title is when he feuded with his brother.

Owen is 10x the wrestler Nash ever was or could ever even dream of being, and i can't imagine anyone arguing that point.

Now this is just funny. If Owen was 10x the wrestler, how come Nash had 10x the fans?

1 Seriously? People didn't pay to see Owen Hart? Honestly?

Honestly. Seriously. And all the other "ly"s you want to come up with.

If people paid to watch Owen, how come he never became a serious legitimate main-event threat?

The guy got cheers wherever he went as a face, so that isn't a sign of affection anymore? Wow!

What the fuck are your rambling about? Since when has cheering someone meant people paid to watch him?

If I go to a show, I'll cheer Evan Bourne, but I sure as fuck ain't paying $60 to watch him. I'm paying to watch John Cena and the Undertaker. I'll cheer Bourne, but he sure as fuck ain't the reason I paid my money to go to the show.

Come on. Nash was not more enjoyable than Owen, not by a long shot.

History tells us otherwise.

People did not pay to see Nash, not him in particular, any more than they payed to see Owen Hart.

You're right, that whole "nwo" shirt being the best selling shirt in history just doesn't compare to Owen Hart's road sign outfit.

People talk about Owen Hart beating Bret in the curtain jerker at WM 10. Nash main-evented WM 11, in a world title match, AND retained the title, a rare feat at Wrestlemania. People DID pay for Nash, a lot more than they did Owen.

The angles Owen was in like the one with his brother or the feud with Shawn were a hell of a lot more interest than wait, was was one memorable feud that Nash was even in, memorable for being good I mean.

Oh, I don't know, do the letters "nWo" ring any bells? No, you're right, that whole nWo vs. WCW feud wasn't memorable or good at all. Sure they almost put the WWF (you know, where Owen was a midcarder) out of business, but it wasn't actually any good.

Do you try to think of the dumbest thing possible before you post, or are you just lucky to manage to do so?

2 Actually the main one being he was over enough that he didn't need one. Is your only argument the fact that because Owen didn't get his hands on a WHC, that he immediately has no chance against Nash because that is so not true. What about wrestling ability? Or connection with a crowd, or respect given, or something a long those lines? You're clinging to the title shtick because you can't defend Nash in any other way.

I think you need to learn a little bit about how professional wrestling works.

Professional wrestling is not figure skating. "Wrestling ability" is determined by the ability of a wrestler to get people to pay to watch him. Those guys who are the best at getting people to hand over money to watch them, are the ones who go to the top of the card, main-event the big shows, and carry the world titles. So when I say Nash was a world champion, not to mention an integral part of the revolutionary nWo, that carries with it all the implied quality which comes from being a world champion.

In wrestling, you're only good if you're entertaining. And the only way to measure your entertainment value is whether or not people pay to watch you. Those who draw money, take the top spots on the card. So when I mention how Nash was a career main-eventer, and won multiple world titles, that carries with the implication that he was much better at pro wrestling than Owen was.

3 No it isn't! He beat Bret Hart, did Kevin Nash do that? He slammed Vader, he beat a 600 pound Samoan, he won King of the Ring, he won the tag titles when they meant something and made them mean even more and I'm sure others can go on and on. There were more than just Owen who deserved a WHC and didn't get one, there is only one title and that brings me to another point. WCW tossed their title around like it was nobodies business, the fact that it finally ended up getting around to Nash, doesn't impress me. And if Owen wouldn't have died and eventually went to WCW, he would've gotten the same opportunity. They took their WHC and they put it on person after person, don't deny.

Your point about the WCW World title MIGHT be valid (though I doubt it) if Nash hadn't also won the WWF World title, back when "there is only one title". Nash won a world title while being in the same company Owen was, and while Nash was main-eventing Wrestlemania, Owen was firmly entrenched in the midcard feuding with the Smoking Gunns. Yawn.

4 Are you even listening the people you're quoting? You're using the same argument against quote after quote, you need to realise that Owen beats Nash in quite a few other categories too.

None that matter though. In pro wrestling, what matters is if you are entertaining enough to draw money. Nash was, Owen wasn't. What more can you want?

The Kliq was a huge stable and like Nexus, it was going to bring a lot of light on the leader of it. That is how Nash got pushed, just like Nexus is how Barrett ultimately got pushed. It is not because they were full of talent and carried themselves to the top by their sheer talent, they were helped up to the top of the ladder, by a group of three or four men, with a ton of power. Get it through your head!

Yes, not like Owen Hart, who only had a storied family history, legends of "The Dungeon" and an older brother who was a multiple time world champion.

Yes, poor poor Owen, with no one to help him along except for his world champion brother, his Hall of Fame father, the legend of his training facility, and the history of his family. It makes one wonder how Owen ever got to be a career midcarder, facing such tough odds.

6 Are the most "popular" wrestlers the ones who win though?

More often than not, yes.

Even if Kevin Nash is in your mind more popular than Owen Hart which is complete bogus, I'll play along. What about when Shaemus beat John Cena for the championship? Shaemus was definitely the most liked or most popular, wasn't he?

You're confusing face heat with popularity. Sheamus was obviously interesting enough to be main-eventing against the biggest name in the WWE, and getting victories over him. Thus, he was worthy of a world title.

And I don't know where your getting the fact people wanted to see Kevin Nash more and even if they did, it would be only because of what the Kliq as a group was doing, which contained HBK and HHH and more people that were so much better on the mic or connecting with the crowd than Kevin.

I guess we'll just ignore that whole nWo thing, which popped WCW's interest, even before Hogan joined.

7 In 1981, he tore his anterior cruciate ligament in his knee which ended his college sports career. In March of 2003, he ended up getting a biceps injury. A couple months after in July, he tore his quadriceps which put him out for nine months. I think there was more but even this is enough, he is one of the most injury prone men in the wrestling world so yes, this is 100% true.

Wait...to prove he is "one of the most injury prone" wrestlers in the world, you are citing something that happened in 1981 while playing a completely different sport, and then citing something which happened TWENTY-TWO years later, when he was in his mid 40s?

Excuse me while I mock you privately...and publicly. Moron.

well sly, i got to hand it to you, you got me beat. but i have seen my fair share of wrestling & i do have some valid points you 'deconstructed'.

Vince likes big 'monster' guys he can book to steamroll the others. Especially during that time he won the title. Shawn got him the job, & he was booked as the 'badass body guard'. Yes he battled it out up the ladder before getting the strap, but that was alongside his good buddy HBK. Vince likes your look & you are in good with one of the boys.... you got the job & eventually the title. You get the title, vince gets his ticket sales. Dont mean he was better than anyone else. He was fed Bob Backlund to win the title- its not like he beat Jesus in a TLC match. LOL. He beat Shawn (....to get him over as a champ) He was booked over Sid (bc of a feud w\HBK), & he beat King Mabel. WOW, now thats talent. The crowd having your back dosent mean you can actually win a fight. Tickets sales also have something to do with other matches\ wrestlers on the card, not just who has the belt. (taker, bret....etc were a good reason for buying tickets back then) So good enough.... or right place\time?


Nash has had plenty of injuries, including the one that lead him to quit basketball & start wrestling. Nash has even tore his quad just walking across the ring. Injury prone, bad knees. Sharpshooter. Bret beat Nash for the title by breaking him down (just like owen would)

Ahem, titles dont always mean your better. More than a few legends never had a world title.


Fan favorites are the ones that fans are willing to pay to see. Dosent make them better wrestlers. By that admission, cena is a better wrestler than say... chris jericho? Nope. This tournament shouldnt be based on who sold the most shirts, or who looks cool. Im voting based on ability to defeat your opponent. Owen had better training & would wear Nash out.


vote how you want to folks. do you cast your vote for a guy based on popularity, or the fact he can whip the other guys ass in a match?

Take everything I just replied before you, and apply it to this post. It pretty much answers everything you said.

 

[nightmare]

The poster "janice" seems to be more worried about popularity & i dont agree with him that Owen was more popular than Nash. Nash was huge with the fans, & the NWO definately helped. Nash was definately more popular, but that depends on who you ask. There are actually people who think that Barry Horowitz is popular. Shame.

My stand is that Owen is a better wrestler. Not more popular, not based on tshirt sales, not based on friends. Nash is strong, big & tough. Hes got a great following. But Owen would beat him in a one on one match. If we could only get the guys from "deadliest warrior" to GC this thing....


Sly, you know your shit. Your reputation definately lives up to the legend. We both have our points & are voting accordingly. Im not really trying to dispute your counterpoints, bc they do have merit. Rather- trying to voice my opinion on ability& base my vote on things other than 'being over'. If all of us are going to vote based on popularity, then bryan danielson (good, but undeserving to win this whole thing) would probably win. That shouldnt happen.

You are a beast in a debate sir. Tough as nails.

 

[The Best]

Even though Nash has a;ways been known for having bad legs/knees, even in his early days he couldn't move his legs too well, but I still don't see Owen locking in a sharpshooter, I see him trying it in this match 2-3 times, but he just can't lock it in, Nash also has one of the few things that Owen doesn't have, a world title, and sadly(due to Owen's accident that cut his career short) experience, so i see Nash moving on in a hard fought battle.
Winner: Big Daddy Cool at around 18:00 via jacknife powerbomb.

 

[The Brain]

I love Owen as much as anyone but this easily goes to Nash. These guys experienced their primes at the same time and Nash was by far the bigger star. I’ve seen some people argue that Owen beat Bret at WrestleMania X. That was one match out of many. Bret won every rematch they had. I’m not going to let Owen pass Diesel because of one match. As Owen was losing to Bret throughout the rest of 1994 Diesel was becoming a star. He won the IC, tag, and world title within seven months at a time when titles were harder to come by. Diesel had a year long world title reign while Owen had to recruit Yokozuna to carry him to the tag titles. If Owen could have beaten Diesel in their primes he would have done it. They were in the same company at the same time during their primes and Diesel was world champion for one full year while Owen never got the belt. That says it all.

 

[The Chosen One of WZ]

Kevin Nash would use his power do destroy Owen in the ring. DOn't get me wrong Owen is pretty legendary in his ring skills. But Nash is the better draw and using his overwellming strenght would have no problem Jacknifing Owen for the win.

 

[Dark Horse]

Just getting my vote in for none other than Big Sexy Kevin Nash. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Nash's size and strength are just too much. When a guy could hold his opponent at bay by putting his arm out and palming his head to keep him out of range, I'm going with that guy. Then when you think of Owen getting Jackknifed, it's a done deal. He isn't getting up from that, not even Goldberg could(there was no fucking cattle prod btw, lol). I believe it was Kevin Nash himself who once said it "All offense here baby" and that's exactly why Owen would lose. He just could not take the offense of Kevin Nash. The knees in the corner, the elbows, the big sidewalk slam, they all equal Owen ending up as a little greasy spot on the mat.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Ah, it's time to play the "This isn't the WWE" and "I don't give a shit how big you think you are" game. Let's begin, shall we?

A couple years ago I would've wasted over half an hour writing up a wall of words to exclaim my point over why this guy should go over that guy, and some random schmuck would've just blown it off as just that, so let's skip the formalities and jump right to some actual evidence of why Nash CAN lose this match-up.

The first piece of evidence:

[youtube]I85Sk86zOYo[/youtube]

Owen Hart won this match-up. By DQ? Yes. But it counts as a victory, and last time I checked in this Tournament DQ's can happen. The odds of Kevin Nash falling against the grain and getting himself DQ'd twice against the same guy? Probably unlikely, but not impossible.

Just like it's equally as unlikely that Owen Hart would just allow Kevin Nash to come at him with a full head of steam, and unleash power move after power move without using his quickness and speed to put some distance between the two.

Look closer into that match-up (It's all of 6 minutes, if that, so I doubt it'll take long) Owen got little offense in because Nash was furious at Owen for a personal reason. That alone is something that you can't continue to factor in here, because the setting isn't the same. Then, Nash was upet at Owen for injuring Shawn Michaels - as well, he was upset at the Hart (Namely, Bret) for losing his Championship less than a month prior. He was feuled (no pun intended) by rage. Something he doesn't have in every match.

Likewise, not every Nash match has him spending all of his energy within the first couple of minutes, like here. However, in the little offense Owen did get in - he hurt Nash. He dropped Nash. He was able to get him down, and work him over - even if only for a little bit. He connected with a Spinning Heel Kick, a Missile Dropkick and his Enzuigiri, among other lesser holds/moves in which he worked over Nash's legs.

Now - you factor that bit of information in with this next clip..

[youtube]8rv3i8xnRbY[/youtube]

Now, what does this match have to do with a Nash/Hart comparison? One thing.. the finish of both matches. Nash has ALWAYS had arrogance throughout his career, especially against guys he feels are less than he is - or, in both cases from the above videos, smaller and less powerful.

Kevin Nash is being talked about in this thread as being a smart Wrestler, and someone who wouldn't make mistakes - but if you ask me, he's someone who's so full of himself - he's more likely to make mistakes again, and again, more so than he ever would be to play it smart and cool - even if he feels he has everything under control. It's in those exact situations, when he feels he'd have everything in the palm of his hands - that stuff like this, happens..

[youtube]BRLWrNhPQXI[/youtube]

Owen Hart is every bit as talented and capable as his brother, Bret. Hell, he defeated his Brother on the same night his brother later captured the Heavyweight title.

This is not the WWE, nor is it WCW, or any other recognized Federation, or Company. It's about debating who could defeat who, and why. The biggest argument for why Nash would win - is simply because he's been a former Heavyweight Champion, or because (largely in part due to his size) he was a bigger influence in the sport of Wrestling. Well, I'm sorry, that type of irrelevant debate doesn't fly with me - because it doesn't explain to me how he'll get the guy to willingly lay down for a 3-count, simply because he's "won better titles and accomplished more."

Owen Hart doesn't have to be stronger, or more powerful. He doesn't have to have held better Championships, or done more in the sport because of the situation(s) he found himself in. He just has to be allowed to show everyone WHY he can win, and I've just finished proving why he has every bit of the chance, to win - based largely on the fact that Nash has made a career out of letting smaller guys beat him numerous times.

MY VOTE: OWEN HART

P.S.: I just noticed this match-up is also taking place in Canada, too. Not that crowds can completely sway a decision one way or another - but this is yet another small example of why Owen has more chance at winning here, than Nash ever did. Because it's in front of his Family, his Home.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

As great as Owen was in the ring, I cannot see how he would beat a pissed off Kevin Nash. Remember, this isn't a newly-solo Diesel, this is KEVIN NASH...so he would be backed up by the nWo, who would be more than a match for the Hart Foundation if they had accompanied Owen to ringside, giving Nash another advantage besides his strength and size.

If Nash could remain on his feet and not fall prey to a Sharpshooter, I only see a victory for Big Kev. Owen was a phenomenal talent, and someone who I believe would have been a champion had his career lasted longer. However, just like Scott Hall (albeit for different reasons), Owen Hart is a case of "what if?" which Kevin Nash is a proven main eventer, a multi-time World Champion and would come out on top here, nailing Owen with a Jack Knife powerbomb and going through.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that D-Man and Will have already proven how Owen has an advantage in this kind of match. Kevin Nash has a history of losing to smaller men. He has in the past lost to Bret Hart and HBK; guys who Owen has defeated. Owen can defeat big men. He defeated Razor Ramon to win the KOTR tournament in 1994 and he was of a similar build to Nash. Also this match is taking place in Canada and that should favor Owen a bit.

As for the World Title arguement, it is true that Nash won the World title whereas Owen did not. But Nash was always a pretty shit draw both in the WWF as well as in WCW. You can make all sorts of excuses for his run as Diesel in the WWF but you cannot make them when you are talking about his WCW run. The roster was pretty good when Nash became champion in WCW and yet none of his title reigns are memorable in the least. Oh wait that is not entirely true. The fingerpoke of doom did take place during a Nash title run only.

Nash won his WCW championships at a time the belt was passed round in the company more than a dollar two ****e that was a result of Vince Russo's fixation with surprises. Owen may have never become champion but Nash failed as a champion. It is upto you to decide which is more detrimental for the business.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I think that D-Man and Will have already proven how Owen has an advantage in this kind of match. Kevin Nash has a history of losing to smaller men. He has in the past lost to Bret Hart and HBK; guys who Owen has defeated. Owen can defeat big men. He defeated Razor Ramon to win the KOTR tournament in 1994 and he was of a similar build to Nash. Also this match is taking place in Canada and that should favor Owen a bit.

He has a history of beating smaller man too. He has victories as well over Hart and HBK. Where this match takes place doesn't mean shit to me because Edge has lost in Toronto, HBK has lost in San Antonio, and Cena has lost in Boston. It's not like Kevin Nash hasn't won in Canada before.

As for the World Title arguement, it is true that Nash won the World title whereas Owen did not. But Nash was always a pretty shit draw both in the WWF as well as in WCW. You can make all sorts of excuses for his run as Diesel in the WWF but you cannot make them when you are talking about his WCW run. The roster was pretty good when Nash became champion in WCW and yet none of his title reigns are memorable in the least. Oh wait that is not entirely true. The fingerpoke of doom did take place during a Nash title run only.

If he was a shit draw, then why did he hold the title for a year? They could have taken it off him at any time. Nonethless, it's still more than what Owen had.

Nash won his WCW championships at a time the belt was passed round in the company more than a dollar two ****e that was a result of Vince Russo's fixation with surprises. Owen may have never become champion but Nash failed as a champion. It is upto you to decide which is more detrimental for the business.

HBK and Bret Hart failed as champions during the Monday Night Wars. I don't hold that against them so I'm not going to hold anything against Nash.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

He has a history of beating smaller man too. He has victories as well over Hart and HBK. Where this match takes place doesn't mean shit to me because Edge has lost in Toronto, HBK has lost in San Antonio, and Cena has lost in Boston. It's not like Kevin Nash hasn't won in Canada before.

The location may not matter when it comes to booking in actual promotions but it matters in this tournament. In promotions like WWE and WCW storylines are always the driving force when it comes to determining winners. But in this type of tournament there is no storyline between these two guys. Tell me if these two guys were to turn up in Canada to have a match, whom would the bookers book to win the match up? Obviously Owen and send the crowd home happy.

Another thing is that I cannot remember Owen losing to a lot of big guys. He defeated Ramon in their only match up and has defeated Diesel by DQ. He has also defeated guys like Rocky Miavia who was a pretty big guy though not as big as Nash.

I cannot remember when Nash defeated Bret Hart. Owen, on the other hand, has actually beaten him.

In short he has the advantage in this sort of match up.

If he was a shit draw, then why did he hold the title for a year? They could have taken it off him at any time. Nonethless, it's still more than what Owen had.

As bad as it may sound, a lot of wrestling history depends upon the whims of a Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Diesel did not draw huge numbers as champion but yet Vince persisted with him because he believed that Diesel had the best chance of succeeding among the guys in his roster. As it turns out, he was way off the mark.

HBK and Bret Hart failed as champions during the Monday Night Wars. I don't hold that against them so I'm not going to hold anything against Nash.

HBK failed in 1996 when the WWF roster was really weak. Kevin Nash failed as a part of a WCW roster that was making WWF grovel. There is a difference dude. Hart may have succeeded as WCW champion but he was injured by Goldberg early in his title reign. Again I would not call that failing.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The location may not matter when it comes to booking in actual promotions but it matters in this tournament. In promotions like WWE and WCW storylines are always the driving force when it comes to determining winners. But in this type of tournament there is no storyline between these two guys. Tell me if these two guys were to turn up in Canada to have a match, whom would the bookers book to win the match up? Obviously Owen and send the crowd home happy.

Assuming that Owen is a face if the matchup were to take place.

Another thing is that I cannot remember Owen losing to a lot of big guys. He defeated Ramon in their only match up and has defeated Diesel by DQ. He has also defeated guys like Rocky Miavia who was a pretty big guy though not as big as Nash.

I would say the reason is because Owen didn't have to face a lot of big guys consistently as Kevin Nash had to face smaller guys. Of course Nash is going to have more losses than Owen because Nash did it with more regularity.

 

[gd]

It's the big and sexy one here, no doubt. Sure he may not be, umm, good in the ring or anything, but that doesn't mean he isn't overwhelmingly entertaining. Great personality, great body, great chest hair. That's all you need, really. He's had a much more successful career than Hart, as people have already stated, and did it in more than one company. Sure, Owen was decent enough, but he's going to fall hard here at the hand of the Big Sexy Tour 2011.

Also, if we are using this kind of logic, I'm pretty sure we could argue anybody over anybody. It's just silly, really.

But then again, Owen Hart is also the guy that defeated Bret Hart CLEAN, and Bret Hart was a man that took Nash to the limit and defeated him on several occasions. So anyone who says that Nash could win "easily" is just bullshitting themselves and all of us.

I need time to think here but I'm still going to lean towards Owen due to his defeats over a man who took out Kevin Nash... that being Bret Hart.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Assuming that Owen is a face if the matchup were to take place.

Except for 1994 when Owen was opposing Bret Hart, who is more or less a national hero in Canada, I would say that Owen was face in CANADA at all other points in his career. So if the maatch were to happen in any year except 1994 Owen had a better chance of winning.

Even in 1994 it is not clear who would have won as Owen was having a pretty hot year and Diesel was a heel mainly using the outside interference of HBK to win. In such a situation I am not entirely sure whom the crowd would have supported but Owen stood a pretty good chance of winning the match if it was held in Canada.

I would say the reason is because Owen didn't have to face a lot of big guys consistently as Kevin Nash had to face smaller guys. Of course Nash is going to have more losses than Owen because Nash did it with more regularity.

Owen faced guys like Ramon, Diesel, Bulldog, Rocky and HHH during Nash's career in the WWF as Diesel. That's a pretty big number in my opinion. Either way Diesel lost quite a lot to small guys. In fact he lost more to small guys than he won against them. Which proves that he is vulnerable against small dudes.

Advantage Owen here.

It's the big and sexy one here, no doubt. Sure he may not be, umm, good in the ring or anything, but that doesn't mean he isn't overwhelmingly entertaining. Great personality, great body, great chest hair. That's all you need, really. He's had a much more successful career than Hart, as people have already stated, and did it in more than one company. Sure, Owen was decent enough, but he's going to fall hard here at the hand of the Big Sexy Tour 2011.

Depends on the way in which you choose to judge success GD. He was given a responsibility to be the top guy in either company and he failed on both occasions. I wouldn't call being given an opportunity a success.

Personally I was never entertained a lot by Nash. When he was Diesel and he was world champion he was hanging out with a Shawn Michaels whom I thought was more entertaining than Diesel. And I have always viewed nWo as a Hogan show more than anything else. Once Hogan joined nWo everyone was just talking about Hogan while Hall and Nash had been relegated to the backseat.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

This is why posting last on the page prior is a pain in the ass. Almost no one looks back, which is disappointing to say the least.

As great as Owen was in the ring, I cannot see how he would beat a pissed off Kevin Nash.

1.) I pointed out several ways in how Owen could/should win this match-up. If you would've only read my post (before you posted this, mind you) then you'd understand - or "see".

2.) How is Kevin Nash "pissed"? He just won a First Round match-up and is facing a smaller opponent that he'll foolishly try to over-look.

I think you're assuming he'd go into this match-up in a similar rage that he had when these two met the only time they ever did. If that happens, then there is absolutely no reason to believe a similar outcome wouldn't happen all over again.

Remember, this isn't a newly-solo Diesel, this is KEVIN NASH...so he would be backed up by the nWo, who would be more than a match for the Hart Foundation if they had accompanied Owen to ringside, giving Nash another advantage besides his strength and size.

For what it's worth, whenever the n.W.o. interfered in matches they often got thrown out (the matches), resulting in an n.W.o. DQ, or no winner at all. I can only really recall the Goldberg match in which Nash had help, and it resulted in a win. I'll need further proof that it happened more regularly, as you claim.

As for the Hart Foundation, you claim they'd be no match for the n.W.o. Uh, what?

Bret Hart, the British Bulldog, The Anvil and Brian Pillman aren't random jobbers and coat-tail riders looking to stay relevant. They were all very powerful in their own right, and worked as a tighter group than the n.W.o. ever could. If the Harts were to equal out the "interference" angle - especially IN CANADA - than you're just continuing to give Owen more of an advantage here.

If Nash could remain on his feet and not fall prey to a Sharpshooter, I only see a victory for Big Kev.

In their only meeting, the one small bit of offense Owen had resulted in big moves which constantly dropped Nash off his feet. Owen worked over Nash's legs in that time, and weakened him briefly. No sense in thinking it wouldn't happen again.

Owen's offense is quick hits, that result in dropping opponents to the ground and working over their legs. Your entire outlook on this is from the assumption that Nash can't get taken off his feet - which will happen in an Owen Hart match.

Owen was a phenomenal talent, and someone who I believe would have been a champion had his career lasted longer. However, just like Scott Hall (albeit for different reasons), Owen Hart is a case of "what if?" which Kevin Nash is a proven main eventer, a multi-time World Champion and would come out on top here, nailing Owen with a Jack Knife powerbomb and going through.

This is more of a case of size than talent. Nash got his spot because he was tall and the fans took to it. I'm not going to say he wasn't talented, but I will say his biggest rivals are technical opponents. (aka - Owen)

Yes, someone even said he beat Bret - although I don't ONCE recall Nash EVER beating Bret. I recall them drawing at the Rumble, then Hart winning at the Survivor Series and Feb. In Your House ppv.

Assuming that Owen is a face if the matchup were to take place.

The match-up is taking place IN Canada. That instantly makes Owen Hart a face under every sense of the term.

 

[Tech N9ne]

Owen is obviously the better technical wrestler. Nash has him in size for sure. I voted Owen because I think he takes the actual wrestling match. This was a hard decision for me, because it is hard to picture Nash losing in a tournament, this early. Though it looks like Nash will probably take this. My vote is with Owen, on ring ability alone on this one.

 

[The Bearded One]

I'm going to go with Kevin Nash for several reasons. The first is that he was the World Champion of two different companies, and while Hart was a great wrestler, he never made it past the IC Title. You could argue that he would have eventually made it past and become a World Champion, which is valid, but you can really go off what he accomplished and not what he could have accomplished.

Another reason my vote goes for Nash would be his size and power. Hart would have an almost impossible task of grounding the big man and keeping him there. Nash would be able to easily overpower Hart and turn it into a fight. He would wear Hart down with power moves until Hart had nothing left in him and then Nash could hit his Jackknife for the 1-2-3.

The final reason I'm picking Nash is the size of the ring, which is 16x16 for this match. Nash stands at nearly 7 feet tall. So even if Hart is able to ground him, unless he is smack dab in the middle of the ring, Nash could use his size and easily reach the ropes and bring the action back to the feet. A larger ring would benefit Hart, but the tiny ring has to be to Nash's advantage.

I never thought I would say this, but my pick is Kevin Nash.