Ongoing Thread For Smarmy Spam Responses to the WZT

[SSJPhenom]

The point is there wasn't as many titles at that time. It's not fair to compare Edge's 10 titles to Piper lack thereof because in this era you just have that much more chance of winning one. Factor in MITB now and you can, and as history shows, can gift a superstar like a Jack Swagger, Miz or Daniel Bryan (before he was over) a world title from almost out of nowhere at times.

If you're going to vote based on Edge beating top guys, that's a better slant. But you still have to consider Edge's ultimate opportunist gimmick into the match too. Edge can't rely on the MITB to help him in this match, nor interference, nor many of the things he's used to help in the past because this is just a straight match with normal rules.

Just don't use Edge's volume of world titles as a reason why he should go over, it doesn't work. This is exactly what I was talking about a while back when I mentioned carefully considering the era you are comparing. Roddy Piper has never won the WWF world title, but has gotten just as much heat and pops as Edge, and probably louder. World titles don't mean everything, but less still when one of the guys you are comparing is Edge, because his whole gimmick was to get those titles in some sort of deviant way which isn't operable in these conditions.

If you take out the gimmicks and the things that didn't exist in his era and put Roddy Piper in the ring with Edge in a timeless match, you have two guys who are just as good as each other in finding dirty and underhanded ways to win.

I wasn't looking at the number of title wins as the reason why Edge should go over. The point of me bringing up the titles, if you read my post, is to show all the people that Edge went over in order to win them. Edge has beaten the absolute best wrestlers that this era had to offer. I'm not sure that Piper could say the same about his era. Edge may have cheated to do it, but he still got it done.

 

[SSJPhenom]

So we have precedent of three more points in favor of Piper:

1) Piper can beat guys who you think are bigger names
2) Piper can beat a guy in a close match
3) You are wrong to pick against Piper

But more importantly how in the high holy hell can you say Edge is a bigger name? Are you talking about the guy from U2? Seriously, Piper main evented WM, Piper competed against arguably once of the most recognizable faces in the US in Mr. T at WM 2, Piper had a feud with one of the biggest worldwide pop stars of the 80's in Cindy Lauper, Piper went on to make movies and possibly be in the greatest fight scene in movie history. He still does TV and Vince brings him back regularly to help get guys over.

Adam Copeland did a crappy WWE movie that went no where. He is barely seen anymore.

Damn, I didn't know that this was a who has better film roles and who is more mainstream tournament. The Rock wins then. Piper's one good movie and one decent line, "I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum," has nothing to do with a wrestling tournament. Are you serious bro?

Anyway, read my post carefully. I was saying that Edge was a bigger name then Yokozuna.

And Edge lost a lot. He sucked so bad that in his prime he got himself caught on top of a 400 lb. giant and let himself somehow get double AA'd. Is it that hard to slide off a sweaty Big Show.

Idk if it's that hard of a thing to do or not. I do know that as a heel, Edge did something that Piper couldn't do. That's pin the top face in the business for the top title in the business.

But it's not. No tournament has a main event in the second round. No titles are on the line here. It is just an opportunity to go to the third round. There's also no MITB, Christian to tag, or silly ladder.

And there's no Cowboy Bob Orton with a cast either.

Again, I'm not sure the winner of this match wins a world title. Is there something in the tournament description that I didn't read?

So you're saying that if the title was on the line then you'd have to discount Piper altogether?

No, there is no rule that says you have to judge people in their prime but I will tell you about Edge's prime. He was a mega-troll. He won matches over top faces to get the fans angry. He is facing a better heel in this situation. There is no booking reason for him to win.

How is Piper a better heel? Edge got just as much heat and again, the major difference between the two is that Edge won more big matches. Doesn't that automatically make Edge the better villain? Edge was able to do away with the good guy and Piper wasn't.

No one loses in their prime. It wouldn't be their prime if they are losing. A prime is not much more a push. Steve Blackman had a prime and he was undefeated during it. Vote Steve Blackman.

Steve Blackman sucked, you silly.

Again, this is not the main event. Edge was a clown compared to Piper. I was happy Vince put so much (to the point it was exhausting) in to him. But ultimately he was not that entertaining outside of gimmick matches and having Vickie and Lita draw him heat. He would have been lucky to sniff 80's Hogan's ass. He would have been Marty Janettey in the 80's. His biggest singles accomplishments are sleeping with his "friend's" girlfriend, showing the world how a MITB cash-in is done, and having a weak neck.

Again, are you saying that if this was a main event match that you'd have to discount Piper? Thanks for making my point for me.

Talk all you want about Edge and about how he sucked. You're wrong, but everybody has an opinion. Also, what's wrong with a manager getting their heel performer heat? Isn't that what a heel manager is supposed to do? I mean if you're going to complain about that then damn you Bobby Hennan for getting Andre so much heat.

I'm wasting my fingertips on this argument because I don't expect anyone who didn't watch during the 80's to really understand Piper's influence on the WWF product but trust me when I tell you it was bigger than anything Edge came close to accomplishing.

I completely understand Piper's influence on the business. I'm not an imbecile. However, when guys are as evenly matched on paper as Piper and Edge are, then I like to start looking at their accomplishments in the business. Titles won, who beat who, etc. Edge get's the nod.

You can vote however you like. Everyone has their own way of voting, but don't tell me I'm wrong for voting the way that I do. To say that Edge wouldn't have a chance in this match because if he was in the 80's he wouldn't have been anything; is basically saying that his wins over Cena, 'Taker, Batista, and others don't mean shit because they didn't wrestle in the 80's. You're grasping at straws when you say something like that. I get it, you're an old school cat. There isn't anything wrong with that, but you're coming across as a little bit biased at the same time. I don't really even like Edge that much, however, history has shown that in big match situations, Piper loses a hell of a lot more than he wins. Also, please don't say that this isn't a big match. It's a match in the second round of a tournament to determine the greatest wrestler of all time.

 

[The Crock]

Dammit Crack, you don't count since your Mormon overlords have banned everything cool.

Faaaacking bullsheeit.

Piper is 25 years past his hey-day and still is a working actor (imdb.com). Vince drags his carcass out every now and again and gives the guy a lot of air time. In 25 years Edge's only media appearance will be an announcement on TMZgeriatric.com that he got served a restraining order for trying to steal Lita's granny panties.

Don't argue fame, Piper puts Edge to shame.

I'm not arguing Edge is more famous, so much as I think that fame is a moot point (in the context that you were using it).

I voted for Edge because I liked him more -- he's honestly one of my ten all-time favorites -- but I'm not saying Piper wasn't more famous in his prime, because he definitely was.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Edge is going to go over Piper. Not impressed you guys.

And there's no BigWill to go to bat for Edge either. It's crazy how much title reigns in an era where the belt was passed around like a skinny blonde at a frat party means so much to most folks.

Piper didn't have a major title because Hogan was the face of the company. He couldn't help that. Piper's done a whole lot more in wrestling than win titles.

 

[Uncle Sam]

And there's no BigWill to go to bat for Edge either. It's crazy how much title reigns in an era where the belt was passed around like a skinny blonde at a frat party means so much to most folks.

Did you already use this simile in the past few days or was that someone else?

 

[JGlass]

And there's no BigWill to go to bat for Edge either. It's crazy how much title reigns in an era where the belt was passed around like a skinny blonde at a frat party means so much to most folks.

Piper didn't have a major title because Hogan was the face of the company. He couldn't help that. Piper's done a whole lot more in wrestling than win titles.

Piper will always be criminally underrated with the majority of fans because they don't understand how hated he really was. It must be his pleasant Canadian disposition, but while guys like Hogan or HBK or Bret love to come around and remind us about how great they were, Piper seems content to let his legacy do its own talking. Unfortunately for him, legacies don't talk, and the fact that he was one of the biggest reasons for WrestleMania being such a success is lost on most fans.

 

[shattered dreams]

Getting a little tired of the blowing of smoke up Piper's ass. Ahead of his time? Yes, however, many of you are blowing it out of proportion. Edge is underrated too, at least if I am to believe Batista is correctly rated.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Oh, the shifting sands of 'ratings'.

 

[Coco]

And there's no BigWill to go to bat for Edge either. It's crazy how much title reigns in an era where the belt was passed around like a skinny blonde at a frat party means so much to most folks.

Piper didn't have a major title because Hogan was the face of the company. He couldn't help that. Piper's done a whole lot more in wrestling than win titles.

While I'm inclined to agree that Edge's title reigns don't mean a great deal, I think it's unfair for you to hold the realities of his era against him while expecting people not do the same for old timers who never got the big belt. Fact of the matter is that Edge was a major force in his era and is entitled to more of a shake than you're giving him. If you want us to take your fucking fossils seriously, then it's a two way street. Learn not to be so dismissive of the contemporary when it's put up against the ancient.

Better yet, can you think of an opponent that was too much for Shawn that he didn't eventually beat?

Did Shawn ever get over on Khali after the big man dominated HBK before Judgement Day '07?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Did you already use this simile in the past few days or was that someone else?

I might have.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

Anyone think that MAYBE, Hogan could be out to Batista if the gimmick's right?

 

[Coco]

Anyone think that MAYBE, Hogan could be out to Batista if the gimmick's right?

No.

 

[Bernkastel]

Anyone think that MAYBE, Hogan could be out to Batista if the gimmick's right?

I'd have to believe there really isn't anything that could give Batista an advantage. Make it something like a ladder or submission match, and they'd both be equally as fucked.

 

[Shocky]

I know Hell in the Cell won't be an option, but I'd vote Dave without hesitation.

 

[shattered dreams]

I voted for Yokozuna, but I did so because I thought he'd make a better opponent for Edge. IMO that's part of the voting process is picking the best match up for the next round. I can't see Piper beating Edge, but Yoko might have given him some trouble.

I'd have to believe there really isn't anything that could give Batista an advantage. Make it something like a ladder or submission match, and they'd both be equally as fucked.

So why did you vote for him then?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Shawn and Brock never met in a match so I've based my decision on the series of matches that HBK had with the guy most comparable to Lesnar... Kurt Angle. Now, in case anybody should claim that Lesnar is far more powerful than Angle remember that Kurt was always booked as capable of man handling whoever he was in the ring with, regardless of size.

Back to the comparison, Michaels vs Angle never reached a definite decision as it ended 1-1-1. Angle vs Lesnar does have a conclusive winner - Angle. Considering that there was nothing between HBK and Kurt in a time that wouldn't be considered Shawn's storyline prime and that Kurt did come out on top of Brock, I'd have to give the edge to Michaels. Throw in the next big things susceptibility to outside interference/ being double crossed and Shawn having Chyna in his corner (Triple H and Rick Rude are busy in their own matches) and I have to go with HBK.

I need help with Angle being the conclusive winner with his matches against Lesnar. Lesnar beat him twice at WM and in an Iron Man Match. Angle beat him at Summerslam. I assume that you are counting his match with Lesnar a few weeks before WM 19 (which involved the ol' Eric Angle switch-a-roo) and/or his match with Lesnar three years after he left the WWE in Japan.

 

[Bernkastel]

So why did you vote for him then?

You mean Yokozuna over Piper? I explained that in the post you quoted

I certainly would not vote Batista over Hogan, if that's what you're insinuating.

 

[Big Sexy]

I think the guys like Piper, Rude, Dibiase, etc sometimes go out too early in this tournament just because of the era they wrestled in. Comparing World titles and number of reigns from the late 80's/early 90's era and the late 2000's era isn't really fair. If you put the influential guys like Piper, Rude, Perfect, and Dibiase in this era then they would all have at least one world title reign and probably a lot more.

 

[Coco]

I think the guys like Piper, Rude, Dibiase, etc sometimes go out too early in this tournament just because of the era they wrestled in. Comparing World titles and number of reigns from the late 80's/early 90's era and the late 2000's era isn't really fair. If you put the influential guys like Piper, Rude, Perfect, and Dibiase in this era then they would all have at least one world title reign and probably a lot more.

Is this supposed to make me vote for those guys?

 

[Big Sexy]

Is this supposed to make me vote for those guys?

No. It was a general statement based on what I've seen from this tournament over the years. Shit, I voted for Yokozuna to beat Piper in the first round. However, people sometimes vote mainly on the number of world titles that a guy won compared to another and that's hardly a great argument in a lot of situations.

 

[Gelgarin]

I keep my mouth shut for six months and suddenly it looks like Verna Gagne is going to lose to sodding Goldberg.

 

[shattered dreams]

You mean Yokozuna over Piper? I explained that in the post you quoted

I certainly would not vote Batista over Hogan, if that's what you're insinuating.

Batista over Styles. You can't see Piper beating Edge so you vote Yokozuna. You can't see Batista beating Hogan so you vote Batista. I keep forgetting anything beyond 1.5 degrees of separation is incomprehensible in prowrestling.

 

[Miko]

Piper vs Edge arguments are the worst kind of hyperbowl.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

I'm always tempted to vote against Hogan because of my natural dislike for him, but it really does depend on the match he's drawn against Batista in.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

While I'm inclined to agree that Edge's title reigns don't mean a great deal, I think it's unfair for you to hold the realities of his era against him while expecting people not do the same for old timers who never got the big belt. Fact of the matter is that Edge was a major force in his era and is entitled to more of a shake than you're giving him. If you want us to take your fucking fossils seriously, then it's a two way street. Learn not to be so dismissive of the contemporary when it's put up against the ancient.

That's the point of debating, Coco. Edge was entertaining and a great wrestler. I'm not taking that away from him, but it's what his mark is on the business. He's had some good rivalries and held titles, but saying he was a MAJOR force is a push. Cena was still a force whether Edge was champion or not. Piper was a huge driving force for wrestling as he helped bring Wrestlemania to the mainstream with Hogan. Even though Hogan had the title, Piper was still a prominent part of the WWE at the time. Piper's Pit was a precursor to all the Highlight Reel's, Peep Show's, and Live Sex shows, and his promo's left an indelible mark on the industry, too.

It's not dismissing Edge. It's letting people know Piper was more than a jobber for Hogan.