Ongoing Thread For Smarmy Spam Responses to the WZT

[It's...Baylariat!]

Also, there's no match Hogan would lose to Batista. Batista's the kind of wrestler that would have jobbed to Hogan countless times if they were in the same era.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Thanks to TNA, there is one match which Batista would win: a bro-off.

 

[Bernkastel]

Batista over Styles. You can't see Piper beating Edge so you vote Yokozuna. You can't see Batista beating Hogan so you vote Batista. I keep forgetting anything beyond 1.5 degrees of separation is incomprehensible in prowrestling.

I voted Yokozuna over Piper because I thought he was the better heel; I did believe he'd make a better opponent for Edge. I voted Batista over Styles because he was the bigger star. Batista affected the ratings and revenue for Smackdown far more than Styles did for Impact. There was no "degree of separation" involved.

 

[Coco]

That's the point of debating, Coco. Edge was entertaining and a great wrestler. I'm not taking that away from him, but it's what his mark is on the business. He's had some good rivalries and held titles, but saying he was a MAJOR force is a push. Cena was still a force whether Edge was champion or not. Piper was a huge driving force for wrestling as he helped bring Wrestlemania to the mainstream with Hogan. Even though Hogan had the title, Piper was still a prominent part of the WWE at the time. Piper's Pit was a precursor to all the Highlight Reel's, Peep Show's, and Live Sex shows, and his promo's left an indelible mark on the industry, too.

It's not dismissing Edge. It's letting people know Piper was more than a jobber for Hogan.

You're exaggerating.

Luckily Piper's going out this round, so I won't need to wade through any more on the matter.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

You're exaggerating.

Luckily Piper's going out this round, so I won't need to wade through any more on the matter.

That's fine, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm not dismissing the other wrestlers because they're newer. I'm trying to let people know about the older generation so they can make an objective vote for someone, instead of voting for the person they've seen wrestle more recently, which lots of voters on the forums do.

 

[shattered dreams]

How was Piper's pit the precursor to Live sex show?

I voted Yokozuna over Piper because I thought he was the better heel; I did believe he'd make a better opponent for Edge.

Then why didn't you say the first part n the statement I quoted? I just read the first part again, are you serious bro?

Batista affected the ratings and revenue for Smackdown far more than Styles did for Impact.

Care to source the smackdown claim?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Looks like Benoit has been screwed by Foley for the third time. It's ok. Foley will meet his demise against HHH.

Do it for Benoit, Hunter.

[youtube]zKoOcemEl3w[/youtube]

 

[Johnny Scumm]

Looks like Benoit has been screwed by Foley for the third time. It's ok. Foley will meet his demise against HHH.

Really? I mean, gimmick matches + Mick Foley = a possible victory.

 

[Alex]

Really? I mean, gimmick matches + Mick Foley = a possible victory.

Gimmick matches = Foley having really good spots and being beaten and bloody.

 

[Coco]

That's fine, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm not dismissing the other wrestlers because they're newer. I'm trying to let people know about the older generation so they can make an objective vote for someone, instead of voting for the person they've seen wrestle more recently, which lots of voters on the forums do.

If you'd like people to look at things objectively, try not framing your posts in the extreme way you tend to.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

If you'd like people to look at things objectively, try not framing your posts in the extreme way you tend to.

If I want someone to go over in a round, I'm going to 'frame' my posts to tell folks why. If that means showing people that their favorite wrestler didn't do as much as the other opponent, then so be it. People are going to be butt hurt no matter what's posted and how objective it is.

 

[klunderbunker]

Did Shawn ever get over on Khali after the big man dominated HBK before Judgement Day '07?

Not that I remember off the top of my head but he might have.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Really? I mean, gimmick matches + Mick Foley = a possible victory.

Slightly pre-prime Trips beat slightly post-prime Foley in back to back gimmick matches in 2000. It's already done.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Damn, I didn't know that this was a who has better film roles and who is more mainstream tournament.

It's not, but it's good to know you concede that point. Now ask yourself how Piper got acting roles and became more mainstream. Do you think it is because he's Meryl Streep or do you think it may be because he was a great talent much like Hogan, Austin, Andre and The Rock were able to find success? There's a correlation.

The Rock wins then.

He won last year and it's not just because of Boots 2 Asses.

Piper's one good movie and one decent line, "I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum," has nothing to do with a wrestling tournament. Are you serious bro?

Not very often, but when it comes to who's better, Piper or Edge than yes, yes I am.

Anyway, read my post carefully. I was saying that Edge was a bigger name then Yokozuna.

Impossible, Edge has four letters in it, Yokozuna has eight (including a "Z"). That's a name twice the size.

Idk if it's that hard of a thing to do or not. I do know that as a heel, Edge did something that Piper couldn't do. That's pin the top face in the business for the top title in the business.

Different generation, different top face, fewer hours of television to fill in the 80's. Plus Miz beat Cena, does that make Miz beater than Piper?

And there's no Cowboy Bob Orton with a cast either.

Why not? I just commented on that it was not a tag match and no gimmicks. Why can't there still be outside interference?

So you're saying that if the title was on the line then you'd have to discount Piper altogether?

That's a fair statement. Piper is on record as saying he didn't want the title because he didn't need it. I'm on record saying Edge needed it, he needed managers, he needed sex scandal, gimmick matches and MITB. Who do you think is more talented of a performer?

How is Piper a better heel?

If being a huge part of WM history is not enough how about the fact that he has been stabbed by angry fans? You have lost all credibility if you state that Edge is a better heel.

Edge got just as much heat

Did he get stabbed?

and again, the major difference between the two is that Edge won more big matches. Doesn't that automatically make Edge the better villain? Edge was able to do away with the good guy and Piper wasn't.

He put Andre out bloody on a stretcher (or at least he claims that he did). I'll take his word for it.

Steve Blackman sucked, you silly.

Green rep for someone that can show him beating Edge.

Again, are you saying that if this was a main event match that you'd have to discount Piper? Thanks for making my point for me.

Absolutely, but I may also have to do more research to see if he won some main events pre-1984.

Talk all you want about Edge and about how he sucked. You're wrong, but everybody has an opinion.

Fine, Edge didn't suck but he was given the world by Vince and didn't make much of it. He was a good soldier who did what was asked of him. Some of the stuff he was given worked, some of it made me role my eyes (Live Sex Show, Goldberg's spear, DDP's coming through the crowd, the feud with Matt Hardy).

Also, what's wrong with a manager getting their heel performer heat? Isn't that what a heel manager is supposed to do?

Are you one of those huge Ziggler marks?

I mean if you're going to complain about that then damn you Bobby Hennan for getting Andre so much heat.

You lost all credibility paragraphs ago. You can stop saying things like this now.

I completely understand Piper's influence on the business.

And yet you still support Edge.

I'm not an imbecile.

For future notice don't set yourself up with these types of comments. There are a lot of people around here who are not as nice as me.

However, when guys are as evenly matched on paper as Piper and Edge are, then I like to start looking at their accomplishments in the business.

Then you don't understand Piper's influence on the business.

Titles won, who beat who, etc. Edge get's the nod.

Then I can't wait for you to set up the Mike Mizanin Campaign HQ nexy year.

You can vote however you like. Everyone has their own way of voting, but don't tell me I'm wrong for voting the way that I do. To say that Edge wouldn't have a chance in this match because if he was in the 80's he wouldn't have been anything; is basically saying that his wins over Cena, 'Taker, Batista, and others don't mean shit because they didn't wrestle in the 80's.

They mean something, they just don't mean as much as you think.

You're grasping at straws when you say something like that.

I wouldn't call it grasping at straws, it's trying to make a point to a bunch of people not alive at the time to know what things were really like. I'm one of the oldest people here and I'm not even 100% familiar with Piper's career that started in the esrly 70's. I am familiar with how things were in Edge's prime. WWE had a lot of titles and time to fill and passed around a lot of wins and titles. That should not benefit anyone, it shouldn't be completely discounted but it is a fact.

I get it, you're an old school cat.

I guess, but I voted The Rock over Slaughter and there are plenty of guys that I would vote over Piper. Yokozuna and definitely Edge are not two of them.

There isn't anything wrong with that, but you're coming across as a little bit biased at the same time. I don't really even like Edge that much, however, history has shown that in big match situations, Piper loses a hell of a lot more than he wins. Also, please don't say that this isn't a big match. It's a match in the second round of a tournament to determine the greatest wrestler of all time.

It's a 127 match tournament. If the second round are big matches how big is the rest? By your logic Piper should not have shown up and therefore is not one of the 128 top talents in history.

Do you really think Piper made it as far as he did without winning big matches or are you just familiar with a couple he lost?

 

[SSJPhenom]

It's not, but it's good to know you concede that point. Now ask yourself how Piper got acting roles and became more mainstream. Do you think it is because he's Meryl Streep or do you think it may be because he was a great talent much like Hogan, Austin, Andre and The Rock were able to find success? There's a correlation.

I never said that Piper wasn't entertaining or that he wasn't a great talent. I simply said that in the ring, Edge has accomplished more in the way of big wins and titles.

Ask yourself this; is Piper remembered for his great in-ring performances where he had classic matches for championships or is he remembered more for his one liners and for Piper's Pit?

He won last year and it's not just because of Boots 2 Asses.

Boots 2 Asses clap clap clap Boots 2 Asses.

Impossible, Edge has four letters in it, Yokozuna has eight (including a "Z"). That's a name twice the size.

You're funny. Edge is the bigger star. How's that?

Different generation, different top face, fewer hours of television to fill in the 80's. Plus Miz beat Cena, does that make Miz beater than Piper?

Miz was on the fast track once, but definitely not now. The difference between Edge and Miz is that Edge stayed at the top after he beat Cena. Miz didn't do the same.

Why not? I just commented on that it was not a tag match and no gimmicks. Why can't there still be outside interference?

I guess there could but KB said that we shouldn't use outside interference because it get's very confusing.

That's a fair statement. Piper is on record as saying he didn't want the title because he didn't need it. I'm on record saying Edge needed it, he needed managers, he needed sex scandal, gimmick matches and MITB. Who do you think is more talented of a performer?

So we're going to fault Edge because he got over with the crowd the old fashioned way? You know, through matches, storylines, and eventually working his way up to the top title in the business. How dare he get over anyway he can.

Piper got over one way and one way only and that was through talking. Sure he was involved in a few big angles and he was in a few good matches, but what people remember the most about Piper is him talking.

When it comes to over all package: Athleticism, in-ring work, charisma, mic skills, and etc. I think that Edge has the edge(I did it).

If being a huge part of WM history is not enough how about the fact that he has been stabbed by angry fans? You have lost all credibility if you state that Edge is a better heel.

Ok, Edge may not have been a better heel than Piper, however, you can't say that Edge wasn't an excellent heel in his own right.

Did he get stabbed?

So if I go and stab Edge right now, he'll be a better heel?

He put Andre out bloody on a stretcher (or at least he claims that he did). I'll take his word for it.

I don't think that Piper would lie, however, I need to see some proof.

Green rep for someone that can show him beating Edge.

Does that include me?

Absolutely, but I may also have to do more research to see if he won some main events pre-1984.

I'm sure that he did, however, not as many as Edge and definitely not the big one.

Are you one of those huge Ziggler marks?

Not really, however, I can't understand why the WWE doesn't make him look stronger. Especially since he has the MITB.

And yet you still support Edge.

Because I think that Edge would win this match.

For future notice don't set yourself up with these types of comments. There are a lot of people around here who are not as nice as me.

I didn't set myself up with anything. Thanks for being so nice, I guess.

They mean something, they just don't mean as much as you think.

Edge beat the absolute best the WWE has to offer for the absolute best title that the WWE has. How can that not mean a lot? Then he went on to beat all of the best that the WWE had to offer. You can call it a different time all you want. Did Piper beat all of the best wrestlers from his era?

I wouldn't call it grasping at straws, it's trying to make a point to a bunch of people not alive at the time to know what things were really like. I'm one of the oldest people here and I'm not even 100% familiar with Piper's career that started in the esrly 70's. I am familiar with how things were in Edge's prime. WWE had a lot of titles and time to fill and passed around a lot of wins and titles. That should not benefit anyone, it shouldn't be completely discounted but it is a fact.

Sure, the title was passed around like a ****e in a hotel room, however, the fact that Edge won 10 of them and Piper didn't even win 1 has to count for something.

I guess, but I voted The Rock over Slaughter and there are plenty of guys that I would vote over Piper. Yokozuna and definitely Edge are not two of them.

You voted for Rock because I don't care how old school you may be, there isn't an argument in the world that would justify the Rock losing to Sgt. Slaughter.

It's a 127 match tournament. If the second round are big matches how big is the rest? By your logic Piper should not have shown up and therefore is not one of the 128 top talents in history.

No, Piper is definitely one of the best ever. I just think that based on his career, this is something that Piper would never win.

Do you really think Piper made it as far as he did without winning big matches or are you just familiar with a couple he lost?

Again, he's won some big matches, but very few. Piper made it as far as he did because of his ability to talk. I don't see how you could argue that point.

Piper isn't remembered for his classic bouts more so than he is for Piper's Pit. Hell, I'd even say that him smashing a coconut over Superfly's head is more fondly remembered than almost anything he did in a ring.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Piper isn't remembered for his classic bouts more so than he is for Piper's Pit. Hell, I'd even say that him smashing a coconut over Superfly's head is more fondly remembered than almost anything he did in a ring.

Tell me about a non-gimmick singles match that Edge won off the top of your head. People remember Edge in gimmick matches and the live sex celebration, they don't remember him actually wrestling.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Tell me about a non-gimmick singles match that Edge won off the top of your head. People remember Edge in gimmick matches and the live sex celebration, they don't remember him actually wrestling.

I agree that Edge is definitely remembered more so for his gimmick matches, but the fact that they were gimmick matches doesn't take away from all of the people that he's beaten.

At least he's remembered for matches and not just an interview segment.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I agree that Edge is definitely remembered more so for his gimmick matches, but the fact that they were gimmick matches doesn't take away from all of the people that he's beaten.

At least he's remembered for matches and not just an interview segment.

Yes it does. This is a one-on-one, non-gimmick singles match. It's been pointed out that Piper doesn't lose those kind of matches that often, but you can't even bring up one match like that Edge was in, much less won.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Yes it does. This is a one-on-one, non-gimmick singles match. It's been pointed out that Piper doesn't lose those kind of matches that often, but you can't even bring up one match like that Edge was in, much less won.

vs. ADR WM 27.

I mean, I can bring up a lot of matches that he was in and some that he won, but it doesn't change the fact that most of his major wins came from gimmick matches.

Also, Piper may have won his fair share of one on one matches, but not when it was a huge match or for the title.

Again, I don't care how Edge won his matches, the point is this; the man beat every single top star from his era. Can Piper say the same? That has to count for something for Edge.

 

[Thriller Ant]

vs. ADR WM 27.

I mean, I can bring up a lot of matches that he was in and some that he won, but it doesn't change the fact that most of his major wins came from gimmick matches.

Also, Piper may have won his fair share of one on one matches, but not when it was a huge match or for the title.

Again, I don't care how Edge won his matches, the point is this; the man beat every single top star from his era. Can Piper say the same? That has to count for something for Edge.

HE BEAT THEM IN GIMMICK MATCHES. He didn't pin them or make them submit, he climbed a ladder, escaped a cage, or, if it was somehow not a gimmick match, he had one of his lackeys interfere.

You mention that Piper didn't beat the top names. He and Hogan faced off twice for the WWF Title in 1985, from what I can find. In both matches, Hogan won by DQ, meaning that (I'll give you a second to catch up) Piper wasn't pinned. In fact, Piper wasn't pinned by Hogan until 1997. How many of those names that Edge beat defeated him?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Could have used this banter in the ACTUAL EDGE/PIPER THREAD!

 

[Thriller Ant]

Yeah, I dropped the ball on that one

 

[SSJPhenom]

You mention that Piper didn't beat the top names. He and Hogan faced off twice for the WWF Title in 1985, from what I can find. In both matches, Hogan won by DQ, meaning that (I'll give you a second to catch up) Piper wasn't pinned. In fact, Piper wasn't pinned by Hogan until 1997. How many of those names that Edge beat defeated him?

Does it matter if Piper was pinned or not? Did he lose the match? Don't worry I'll wait and let you come up with some sort of bullshit reason has to how him not being pinned by Hogan but still losing means something.

Fact is, idc how Piper lost, he still fucking lost. As in he didn't win. If you read any of my posts regarding this match, I never said that Piper would be pinned by Edge. I said that Edge would win, either by Piper being DQ'd, counted out or something. History shows that this is likely what would happen.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

When I think of Piper, I actually think first of him and Bret at Mania 8 and him and Hogan at number one. WWE never got the best of Roddy's in-ring career, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a good one. Most of it just wasn't witnessed on a national stage.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Really? I mean, gimmick matches + Mick Foley = a possible victory.

What Gimmick matches has Foley ever won? He's always gotten his ass kicked by Triple H in them so it's kind of a no-brainer.

Also, Phenom is making me feel really stupid for voting for Edge.