Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
I figured by now you would've already gotten that, but the fact that you keep asking a ******ed and utterly rhetorical question EVERYONE knows the answer to. I don't give satisfaction-generating answers to someone who asks a question that stupid. READ THE NAME ON THE BILL...then ask yourself whether or not your question was intelligent to begin with and actually deserved an answer? When you can see the light and admit the truth that ECW did influence and change the landscape of the business today, I'll give you the answer to this that you want. If that doesn't happen? Keep fishing.
Some fans. But not all of them. I've frequented posts on here by WWE faithful that are tired of his routine in the ring and the blatant predictability of it all (hence them...not me coining the phrase "Superman routine." The scripting and spots are so pre-packaged and regurgitated I feel like every Cena or Batista main event I've taken a trip back to 1989.
Do you see boxers who get hit in the face start screaming? No. That's realism by comparison to the standard method of overselling a shot. The ECW crowd was a bit too sophisticated to eat up the standard method of selling that was in place in those days. I don't mind either type as the elements of each style of pro wrestling differs from place to place, man to man, promotion to promotion. They didn't want to see hokey theatrics like you got in Stamford and Atlanta and guys screaming like they're being tortured when the reality is that a blunt object to the body would usually results in getting your bell rung and not having the wherewithall to focus on selling it like your being sodomized with a hot poker. The fact is, all the major promotions before in America made a single chair shot look like it would kill a guy. ECW was more realistic, especially with Tanaka, because he could take a full-on shot a few times REALISTICALLY until it took him down. They just didn't use the creampuff mentality of one chair shot is like getting whacked with a tommy gun.
See Sandman's performances as you want to. I'll see them the way I want to. I found it more realistic for him to have a glazed look in his eyes when being hit with an object than doing his best mock-up of an epilepsy patient and screaming bloody murder in the process.
Yes, and I'm absolutely positive that the WWE Superstars cartoon and the strict content guidelines with regards to the TV programming in those days was definitely not having anything to do with regards to children viewing. Same with the action figures. We all know the teens and adults in the audience were buying those for themselves.
Yes, because RVD and Rhino weren't already heavily established and around during that time. Let's just disregard those two still being there.
Well, apparently it is for Cena, Batista, and Show. But you already knew that, didn't you? A good wrestling match would've helped those guys out a bit more, but then again, they're not all rocket scientists.
Mikey can outwrestle both of them in his sleep. Even in their indy days, Cena and Batista not only wrestled with a limited repertoire, their offensive execution was lousy and they have always sucked at taking an opponents offense and making it look good...aside from selling. Their move selection and pacing of the matches also sucked. How else would you explain their thunderous ovations at Wrestlemania 21? After all, they were both in the main events? Too bad the crowd was asleep during their matches.
Oh, yes, because all the five-plus move spots and technical reversals and submissions don't count towards the overall score at the end of the day. Great, I bet your commercial would fit right in with the Rock 'n' Wrestling era of selling. You could say that about a vast majority of wrestlers who run through their signature spots these days. Batista, Lashley, Cena, Michaels.
No. The NETWORK. TNN. You know? The place they're show aired? Should I mail you a tape so you get it? The angle revolved around him representing the network, hence Heyman and Gertner swearing at him and THE NETWORK during numerous PPVs.
And you keep riding the Rick Rude-spandex train and thinking your right. Fair enough?
Yes, this is why numerous workers have gone on record as saying they were nervous to perform in front of the ECW fans. Because it's such an easy crowd to get over with and they have low standards and no knowledge of the wrestling business.
The world isn't flat? Oh, shit.
Well, you still don't see them occassionally shoot lightning bolts at the ring and make microphones explode. Or have hooded Druid-type figures accompany them to the ring at big events bearing torches. Or how about turning on the house lights by waving your hands and using some sort of mystical powers to do so? You're making this easy.
Indeed it was a different time then...not just logistically, either. The fact you ignore that is hilarious. If everything that worked back in those days in terms of getting and staying over was still in existence in an all around fashion these days, tag teams like the Killer Bees would still get over.
It's enough when two of those people who took notice happened to be running the two most dominant wrestling companies on the planet. All they did was transplant the essentials from ECW they liked and ran their respective marketing machines behind it to get it over with a larger crowd. This time when the tree fell, there was a national audience around to hear it.
Yes, because we all know that WZ has never announced any news stories that weren't true. If you are so anti-internet and doubt the validity of it, what the hell are you doing here, anyway?
How many times was he World Champion? Apparently the angle wasn't as impactful on the industry as you thought. If it was indeed that influential, then a slew of light-heavyweights of his ilk would've been getting pushes all over the place as a result. Not exactly the influence I'd be looking for. Not invalidating the work he did, but the lasting impression really isn't that great.
And as I told you before, small guys may have been over...BUT NOT PUSHED. There is a difference. I can be loved by the crowd and be over, but at the end of the day if I'm not sporting gold or victories over the top guys, I haven't received a PUSH.
They had known about it earlier and did nothing. Bischoff and McMahon didn't know how to package them especially when Benoit was in WCW the first time. It was only after Paul used them that they gave a shit. These guys had been solid wrestlers for quite some time in numerous companies and Vince and Eric didn't bat an eyelash either way. If they had seen what these guys were drawing, why didn't they snap them up post J-Cup? Right. Because they didn't give a shit...yet.
Rhyno, RVD, and Lynn are all over in their respective companies and don't have to use weapons in the majority of their matches. The weapons help, but aren't the cornerstone. Hell, Balls still gets the fans behind him chanting his name for his punch spot even though he's hardly touched a weapon since last summer.
Oh, I don't know. Try aim, for example?
Well, they've also been covered by Megadeth...and I'm not debating their musicality...just the influence they've created. That's what the key of this entire discussion is geared around.
Pure wrestling was their in spades during the vast majority of the match. So was creativity involving table spots, chair spots, high spots, chain wrestling, submission maneuvers.
Actually the argument does work when the two dominant promoters in the country see the talent there, kipe it, and then just recycle it in their already larger scheme. That don't say shit for how the talent was found. Whether or not the masses saw Chris Benoit, Malenko, or a number of other guys on ECW doesn't mean Eric and Vinnie didn't.
If a shot deserved selling in ECW, then it would get sold. They weren't about the Ric-Flair school of selling. It wasn't a company based around phony selling for maneuvers that didn't actually cause enough damage to denote screaming or seizing.
It sure didn't because neither company knew their ass from a hole in the street with regards on how to book it and market it. Instead of making it their bread and butter, ala ECW, they used it as filler where two guys would walk around hitting each other with stuff for five minutes, instead of having a match that actually told a story in the ring, and just used weapons as a tool.
It isn't when the WWE books like shit and devalues the title to where it's a complete asswipe with a leather strap because they cut the divisioners off at the knees offensively.
Or maybe when he flung multiple slurs at Bischoff during the same? Do you even remember why he was fired from that conservative company anyway? For cutting a promo he wasn't supposed to do, and for manhandling the Brain. The two larger companies didn't allow those kinds of promos, but ECW did. So yeah...that "kinda shoot."
Foley toppling off of cages. Foley who didn't get noticed by McMahon (as he said in his own book) until ECW. How about people fighting on the hoods of cars or matches that went out in the audience or the backstage area?
Hey, at least I have my own opinion that isn't something that would tickle Vince McMahon and Jerry Lawler pink and I have the honesty to say just what came from where in terms of a company's influence. Why is it so hard for you to possibly acknowledge that the company you love watching these days wouldn't be where it was at present if it wasn't for a little promotion from Philly? And being a conformist is typically the guy who would buy a ticket and keep his mouth shut during a show he paid money for...even if it does happen to have complete shit in it. I'll bet you'd sit in the audience having a wonderfully mute time during a Donald/Rosie segment, wouldn't you? As for me, If something irritates me, I'm speaking my piece. Kind of the opposite of conformity. Maybe just a little.
Bullshit. I give anything in the ring, on the mic, or behind the stage a chance. If someone gets better at what they do or a show impresses me, or even a segment strikes my fancy, I'll admit it. Hell, Flair's tirade against Carlito this last week was one of the favorite segments I've EVER seen in wrestling. Flair should be given a raise for putting a phenomenal speech together (regardless of the fact I think he should've retired from active competition a while ago). I judge each aspect subjectively on an as-it-comes basis, but if a few years of being disgusted by what I consider lousy performances from Batista would teach me something...it's not to expect change. Hey, if he upped his game tomorrow and was actually worth pissing on as far as I'm concerned, I'd be the first guy to come on here and say so. Just like parts of TNA that I love...and parts that I loathe. Liking something just to like it is stupid. I don't work that way.
Well, for a national company you could count the number of times they even touched the west coast probably on one hand. I live in the "national" bracket up here in the Northwest where I get WWE typically twice a year, at least. ECW never made it within hundreds of miles of the ass-end of my state. That's hardly regional from my perspective. Each to his own, though.
Almost any band sounds different from the ones who came before so that argument is extremely blanketable.
How would you expect the cheers to last when he gets quickly demoted from working a solid program with HHH right off the bat? He came out with a bang and looked beyond credible against HHH, but instead of HHH helping him get elevated like he did for Cena and Batista, he was bumped down to midcard, which was illogical beyond belief. My opinion is that they never should've let him in the ring with HHH if they were to do that. Just like Benoit. He gets a fraction of his 2004-era pops when he was running at the top of the shows. Importance is definitely placed around your spot in the lineup. For all the staunch opinions you have, you are a smark, too. You're just residing in a different neck of the wood than I am. You're the first smark-in-denial I've ever met, Kaedon.
A cartoon character specifically designed to push anti-Arab buttons post-911? That isn't very cartoony to me when the agenda is politically fueled in nature.
First of all, don't get ahead of yourself. Your music would be considered innovative and influencing, but has anyone covered your music or has a record exec taken your ideas or style? Has anyone made a documentary or revived your recording career a second time? NO. This happened with ECW. You can hate my argument all you want, but the fact that you disagree with it doesn't change a thing. By the by, what kind of music do you play?
Why? Theatrics. Larger-than-life presence that is unrealistic. Hell, Tiger Mask was based on a cartoon-character and Liger was based on a super-hero. However, both of those guys are technically sound and Sayama is as credible a shit-kicker as Muta ever was as he's a legit MMA competitor/trainer.
Actually, I've been having a blast going round and round with 'em. It's like meeting my exact opposite.
