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Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread

Grade tonight's RAW.

  • A

  • B

  • C

  • D

  • F


Results are only viewable after voting.
Who the fuck says he's all dandy? Vince left, and yea the "doofus" is now the boss. Who cares though, maybe he made him an offer he couldn't refuse? Not only that but this is the part where you aren't getting that this is a BUSINESS. Punk is hot now. The mainstream audience doesn't give anywhere near of a shit as you and I do about Punk. Because of this, they have to strike now.

Michael Cole's match made sense. He's an over heel. It doesn't fucking matter if you think you don't like Cole, he's an over heel, Ryder needed an over heel who wouldn't look bad in losing, that's michael cole. It was perfect.

Of course you were marking out for Punk, you're an IWC tool who LOOOOVES to rag on the WWE. Punk worked you. Punk is a very good actor and loves to work people. Sure he felt a lot of that stuff but I guarantee you that he spiced it up a LOT. Watch Punk's shoots, all he does in his life is work people. He worked some biology job into thinking he had a college degree. He LIVES to work people. It's why he's so good.

The Nexus angle was short lived because it wasn't sustainable. Let's see, 7 guys who nobody knows who the fuck they are being on the TV screen a lot? That's a dumbass idea. It's not even close to the same thing as the nWo. The Nexus attacking people will get people who are channel flipping to stay. A Wade Barrett match when he first showed up will not because they don't recognize him. Most of them were too green to carry a promo or a match. That's why it was so short lived. It was smart. It created interest for a little bit and springboarded these guys in a manner that there is no way in hell they could have done on their own. The Nexus angle wasn't a flop at all. You take 7 green rookies and get them that over. You can't. The nWo worked because it was the stars from the number 1 company showing up on the number 2 company. Totally different than 7 new guys taking over. It wasn't sustainable. It created a lot of buzz and jumpstarted their careers. It was a success.

You are sad "WWE can't do anything right". You sound like this "wah wah wah I want wrestling to be exactly how I want it and any other way sucks wah wah wah." If you hate it so fucking much then stop watching it. Stop bitching about it. Nobody else is complaining about the stuff you complain about. Don't call me son, I'm not a kid, I'm a grown ass man who has been in a wrestling ring and nearly died because of it. I have traveled all over the midwest going to shows, talking to guys, trying to soak up every bit of pro wrestling I can. I have talked to Harley Race and Terry Funk about pro wrestling. I have taken down the ROH set and ring with Rhett Titus and Grizzly Redwood. I talked to Mike Sydal (Evan Bourne's brother) about pro wrestling and life in general for a good 15 minutes. I have talked about comic books with Bobby Dempsy. I'm not some 15 year old who started watching wrestling because Stone Cold flipped someone off. I'm probably the most passionate person you'll ever meet when it comes to pro wrestling.

You come across as someone who doesn't love pro wrestling because you let too many people influence your opinion. You don't seem educated. You seem like you're nostalgic and want wrestling to "feel" how it did when you first started watching. That's probably why you like TNA, because it's an attitude era nostalgia show half the time. You don't seem to have an open mind and seem very pessemistic.

I'm not saying this stuff to make you feel like shit or to make me feel better about myself. I'm saying this because I want YOU to enjoy pro wrestling. Have an open, optimistic mind about the show and look at the positive. Try to have a more eclectic taste. Try to appreciate the little things like Cena not really trying to protect the leg early on, underestimating Rey, then being overly cautious about it later on. Which shows an in ring story and progression. For fuck's sake just try to enjoy wrestling. You sound this old guy I know in town who bitches about everything "goddamned sun was never this hot back in the day" "goddamned black president" "goddamned communists making me pay for water" "goddamned young people". Fuck man.
A WWE fan that doesn't like TNA is telling ME to have an open mind and enjoy pro wrestling? Enjoy the little things? Sit back and just watch wrestling? Wait, or do you mean enjoy WWE because everything else is shit? Is that what you meant? I've seen you throw ROH under the bus. I've seen you throw TNA under the bus. Everything points to one thing. You're a WWE fan ONLY. And that's fine. Be that. But don't sit here and tell me to enjoy pro wrestling when YOU don't enjoy anything but the WWE. How come you're all saints when someone's shitting on WWE, but when it comes to TNA you turn into the very same thing you call me? This is you, son ...

"No it doesn't. TNA doesn't matter. TNA is a pimple on Vince Mcmahon's ass. WWE's success will determine wrestling's success. If another company (it won't be TNA) comes along then that'll be great."

This goes against your ideology. This is no open mind. This is a steel trap, twinkles. This is ignorance at its highest level. WWE's the best, TNA is shit no matter what. And I'm a mark? Fucking hyporcites.
 
A WWE fan that doesn't like TNA is telling ME to have an open mind and enjoy pro wrestling? How come you're all saints when someone's shitting on WWE, but when it comes to TNA you turn into the very same thing you call me? This is you, son ...

"No it doesn't. TNA doesn't matter. TNA is a pimple on Vince Mcmahon's ass. WWE's success will determine wrestling's success. If another company (it won't be TNA) comes along then that'll be great."

And I'm a mark?
I don't hate TNA. When I said "TNA is a pimple on Vince McMahon's ass" I as more referring to the fact that TNA isn't close to catching Vince and never will be. I prefer WWE to TNA (as most people do) but I don't hate TNA. I was at Lockdown a year ago. I had a good time doing the "generic indy pose" with all the ROH guys. I asked RVD about legalizing pot, I told Angle his book was inspirational, I told Bischoff he made me a wrestling fan, I marked when I got to do the kliq jesture with Hall and Nash.

Having an open mind and being stupid are 2 different things. I can say TNA has a good show. However, TNA could string together 5 years worth of the most amazing wrestling shows ever and it probably wouldn't touch WWE. WWE is too big and has too much brand recognition. I'm a business student at a school that ranked top 10% in the nation, plus I have an economics minor. My education and knowledge of business and economics won't allow me to say TNA has a legitimate shot at being Vince. It's like if you are racing against a horse and the horse has a head start. You can get into absolute top physical performance, but you're dealing with a different animal and you're already at a disadvantage.

I like TNA. It pisses me off sometimes. However, I don't go over there and shit on every episode of their TV programming. I don't rant and rave about it. I don't continue to insult it with illogical reasoning after people tell me I'm wrong and prove to me why. If they did I certainly wouldn't continue with the same arguments that I used before. In fact, I'm TRYING to like TNA. It doesn't sound like you're trying to do anything with WWE other than find ways to bitch about every segment.

Again, why be so bitter?
 
I don't hate TNA. When I said "TNA is a pimple on Vince McMahon's ass" I as more referring to the fact that TNA isn't close to catching Vince and never will be. I prefer WWE to TNA (as most people do) but I don't hate TNA. I was at Lockdown a year ago. I had a good time doing the "generic indy pose" with all the ROH guys. I asked RVD about legalizing pot, I told Angle his book was inspirational, I told Bischoff he made me a wrestling fan, I marked when I got to do the kliq jesture with Hall and Nash.

Having an open mind and being stupid are 2 different things. I can say TNA has a good show. However, TNA could string together 5 years worth of the most amazing wrestling shows ever and it probably wouldn't touch WWE. WWE is too big and has too much brand recognition. I'm a business student at a school that ranked top 10% in the nation, plus I have an economics minor. My education and knowledge of business and economics won't allow me to say TNA has a legitimate shot at being Vince. It's like if you are racing against a horse and the horse has a head start. You can get into absolute top physical performance, but you're dealing with a different animal and you're already at a disadvantage.

I like TNA. It pisses me off sometimes. However, I don't go over there and shit on every episode of their TV programming. I don't rant and rave about it. I don't continue to insult it with illogical reasoning after people tell me I'm wrong and prove to me why. If they did I certainly wouldn't continue with the same arguments that I used before. In fact, I'm TRYING to like TNA. It doesn't sound like you're trying to do anything with WWE other than find ways to bitch about every segment.

Again, why be so bitter?
And once again, you want me to enjoy pro wrestling and not be a smark, and YOU come up with "TNA is smaller than the WWE and will never catch up". "I don't care which company makes it as long as it's not TNA". Why in the HELL does that matter to you? You're a fan! Come on, "have an open mind". "Enjoy pro wrestling". Who gives a fuck if TNA will "catch on" or not. I don't. If I did I wouldn't be watching it.

How can you possibly enjoy the WWE and not enjoy TNA? What does WWE have that TNA doesn't. Product wise. Quality wise. Not pyro, production and fame. I'm talking as a show. Are the matches worse? No. Is the roster worse? Not by a long shot. Are the storylines worse? Some are, most are not.

Once again. Storylines. Promos. Matches. Three things that should satisfy a VIEWER. Not "Hogen izz old". Not "Russo suxxz and he''ll keel teh TNA". Not "Bischoff izz a WWE mole!".

WWE did NOT deliver tonight. They haven't in a long time. This is not "hating". This is truth. The matches weren't good, the promos were forgettable and the storylines were bromidic. How am I supposed to praise something like that?

See, what you don't get is that I already have an open mind. That's why I watch TNA. You're the close minded one. I had an open mind, dropped WWE and gave that little shithole TNA a chance. I ignored the rumors, I ignored everyone's opinion and I'm thoroughly enjoying it now. That's why a lot of the TNA fans on these forums are being hated on so much for what we like. That's society for ya. Hated on by jagoffs like you who tell US to have an open mind when you're fans of what's popular, what's established and what EVERYONE else is watching, and can't get into a different product like TNA because of all these stupid smarky reasons that have NOTHING to do with the overall quality of the show. Can't catch up with the WWE, this guy is old, that guy is old, this guy came from the WWE, that guy came from WCW, they're copying this, they're rehashing that. Yet no one says the matches are unwatchable. No ones says that the promos are cut by talentless hacks and are plain stupid. No one dogs the content. No one shits on the things that ACTUALLY make a show good or bad. Yet everyone shits on those same things when it comes to WWE. Promos. Matches. Storylines. Think about that.
 
And once again, you want me to enjoy pro wrestling and not be a smark, and YOU come up with "TNA is smaller than the WWE and will never catch up". "I don't care which company makes it as long as it's not TNA".

How can you possibly enjoy the WWE and not enjoy TNA? What does WWE have that TNA doesn't. Product wise. Quality wise. Not pyro, production and fame. I'm talking as a show. Are the matches worse? No. Is the roster worse? Not by a long shot. Are the storylines worse? Some are, most are not.

Once again. Storylines. Promos. Matches. Three things that should satisfy a VIEWER. Not "Hogen izz old". Not "Russo suxxz and he''ll keel teh TNA". Not "Bischoff izz a WWE mole!".

WWE did NOT deliver tonight. They haven't in a long time. This is not "hating". This is truth. The matches weren't good, the promos were forgettable and the storylines were bromidic. How am I supposed to praise something like that?

Holy shit dude you are NOT getting it. The reason I don't think TNA won't ever beat Vince is NOT because I don't like TNA. I would LOOOOVE for TNA to be a legit number 2. I think that they never will because WWE is too big and has too much of a head start. It's like if you started up a soda company. At any point within the next 50 years do you think you'll beat Coke? Fuck no. Same thing. If you still don't get why I don't think TNA will compete with Vince then you are flat out dumb.

How can I enjoy WWE and not TNA? I enjoy both. I enjoy WWE more because they work their audience better. TNA tries to, as Paul Heyman said "please too many masters". They're inconsistent. One week it's all about the X and "wrestling matters" then it's Hogan and Bischoff and Ric Flair. WWE at least has a plan and stick to it. It makes for a more consistent show. TNA is like watching a movie that is advertised as a horror movie but was written by a theater playwright and the actors are all comedy actors and it's actually a romance movie. No central driving force.

You don't use anything descriptive. You say "matches weren't good" "promos weren't good" why not? BTW, those are subjective things. A "good match" is simply one that gets the crowd into it, which they all did. If you have a match that has a million moves and no reaction vs a match with 5 moves and the crowd is shitting it's pants, the match with 5 moves is better because it accomplished what pro wrestling is supposed to do.

Please, in depth, explain why each match wasn't very good. Not enough bullshit highspots?

I'm fuckin done with you, especially if you can't do an in depth analysis. I bet you didn't even pick up on Cena's subtle progressive leg selling I mentioned earlier. You are a bitter fuck who watches a program he hates and then comes on the internet and bitches about it. Do something more productive with your monday nights if you hate it so much and watch the stuff you think you'll like on youtube if you can't try to enjoy it more. I try to enjoy TNA. I watch everything on youtube because I don't have cable. I don't comment on the TNA boards very often because I don't care enough to. You come on here and say how the matches suck the promos suck the stories suck, yet when it comes to the matches you can't say why.

If you say "slow and boring match" and the match was over, that's basically code for "I want spotsz and flipz and I don't get ring psychology". So I wouldn't say that if I were you.
 
Holy shit dude you are NOT getting it. The reason I don't think TNA won't ever beat Vince is NOT because I don't like TNA. I would LOOOOVE for TNA to be a legit number 2. I think that they never will because WWE is too big and has too much of a head start. It's like if you started up a soda company. At any point within the next 50 years do you think you'll beat Coke? Fuck no. Same thing. If you still don't get why I don't think TNA will compete with Vince then you are flat out dumb.

How can I enjoy WWE and not TNA? I enjoy both. I enjoy WWE more because they work their audience better. TNA tries to, as Paul Heyman said "please too many masters". They're inconsistent. One week it's all about the X and "wrestling matters" then it's Hogan and Bischoff and Ric Flair. WWE at least has a plan and stick to it. It makes for a more consistent show. TNA is like watching a movie that is advertised as a horror movie but was written by a theater playwright and the actors are all comedy actors and it's actually a romance movie. No central driving force.

You don't use anything descriptive. You say "matches weren't good" "promos weren't good" why not? BTW, those are subjective things. A "good match" is simply one that gets the crowd into it, which they all did. If you have a match that has a million moves and no reaction vs a match with 5 moves and the crowd is shitting it's pants, the match with 5 moves is better because it accomplished what pro wrestling is supposed to do.

Please, in depth, explain why each match wasn't very good. Not enough bullshit highspots?

I'm fuckin done with you, especially if you can't do an in depth analysis. I bet you didn't even pick up on Cena's subtle progressive leg selling I mentioned earlier. You are a bitter fuck who watches a program he hates and then comes on the internet and bitches about it. Do something more productive with your monday nights if you hate it so much and watch the stuff you think you'll like on youtube if you can't try to enjoy it more. I try to enjoy TNA. I watch everything on youtube because I don't have cable. I don't comment on the TNA boards very often because I don't care enough to. You come on here and say how the matches suck the promos suck the stories suck, yet when it comes to the matches you can't say why.

If you say "slow and boring match" and the match was over, that's basically code for "I want spotsz and flipz and I don't get ring psychology". So I wouldn't say that if I were you.

1.Promos - they are deficient of emotion, or proper emotion. I don't feel like the person cutting the promo is feeling the words he's saying. They're just saying their lines like they were told to. The best and most memorable pro wrestling promos were spontaneous for the most part. They came straight from the heart and the viewer could feel the emotion expressed at that point. Whether it was written or not, the promo was felt. It was delivered well. I come from a family of actors and one thing I was taught was that fun and passion are contagious. WWE doesn't have that, therefore the promos don't click.

I don't get that with the WWE. Currently they don't have a solid amount of mic workers. Only Cena, Truth, Punk and recently Triple H who came back to RAW. That's it from MNR. I don't watch SmackDown! but Christian and Orton can hold their own on the mic. Everyone else doesn't know how to cut a promo. It's not passionate. They don't mean it. They don't feel it and I don't as well. No matter how good a storyline could be, when you give the mic to someone who doesn't know how to talk the storyline's value drops immensely.

The delivery is not the only issue. The content is weak. Whoever's writing it is not doing a good job. They're not saying anything new. They're not saying anything interesting. There are no thought provoking dialogues, the interviews are basic and repetitive. I simply don't care about what he or she has to say because he or she already delivers it poorly and what he or she says is irrelevant because of the writing. Plus, they have this stupid (as someone called it) "where's my camera angle" look on their faces all the time. It's thrown together so he or she just says something to further the storyline.

That's the issue with the promos. They're weak. The delivery is lacking and so is the content. The writers only produce something better for the Main Eventers. Everyone else is served basic shit and has to make it shine.

2. Matches - I don't like spot fests. Stop assuming. The problem with the majority of WWE's matches is pacing, reason and story. Very, VERY few people in WWE know how to tell a good story. I'd say it's less than five or six. C.M Punk, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker and Christian. John Cena and Randy Orton are not included for obvious reasons. They have to be carried but that's not the point.

-- Pacing: most of WWE's matches are very slow and repetitive. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Switch of offense. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Finish. With the lack of story in such a match, it makes for a pretty boring part of the show. Look at some of the better matches in TNA and WWE in general. They start off slow with some nice chain grappling, then the pace picks up more and more but doesn't get too fast unless it's a cruiserweight match, and it just builds until the finish. In WWE it picks up, stops, picks up, stops and then finish. Such a buzz kill.

-- Story: There is none 96% of the time. It's bascially two people in the ring, having a 10 minute match, each hitting his moves in a random manner and one of them winning. They don't tell stories with their bodies, with their body language, their facial expressions. They just hit their moves and go home.

-- Purpose: The purpose of the match is often forgettable. It's just another match. There's nothing behind it to make me care. Not a promo to hype it beforehand, nothing. And even if there WAS a promo we already have the shitty promo issue with people not being able to cut great promos, so the match is fucked from the beginning. It's very basic. Lazy. Not much thought put into it. One good example of how to do it right are the random Rock matches from way back when. The Rock would get a match against Eddue Guerrero, The Hurricane, Bully Gunn - you name it. But he'd make you care. He'd cut a promo and hype the thing so you have a reason to see him whoop someone's candy ass. The writing was EXCELLENT. Rock was hilarious, he'd drop some awesome one-liners and the overall talent back then was better. They'd play off of eachother and improvise when needed. They knew what to do and how to do it and it worked.

3. Storylines - unless your name is Cena you will not get any consistent attention from the writers . Just about every storyline is about nothing. There is no conflict between two individuals who antagonize eachother for actual reasons. There's nothing at stake (that matters). There is no clash of opinions, ideology (aside from you bad I good) or anything. Look at Kofi and Ziggler. They've been facing off for such a long time. Does anybody know what the beef is? Why the fuck are they still fighting? Who the hell knows? Last night we got Del Rio vs Kofi. While it's not a long term storyline, it's just Del Rio wanting his revenge for losing.

Every storyline revolves around X attacking Z and Z attacking X and X attacking Z back and Z costing X a match and they face off. There's no progression. There's no character development. There's match after match until the PPV. No time for promos where both men present their argument to the audience so they can get INVESTED in the feud. WWE just expects you to cheer the face and boo the heel because the face is the face and the heel is the heel.

And it all comes back full circle. A fan like me sees a bunch of heels and faces that are more of a shell than an individual. I don't know what they stand for, I don't know who they are and why they're doing what they're doing. They are only defined by their alignment and that makes them all stand for the same things. Faces are happy and fair, heels are angry, cowardly at times and cheat. I can't invest in the roster, therefore I don't care what happens to the people involved in storylines.

Still, they get on the mic and they can't talk. I can't feel what they're saying, I don't are because they don't seem to care. They become even more dull.

And now we have a weak story between two people that don't have a DEFINED personality, can't make me care about them through their mic work and don't bring to the table anything that anyone else on the roster can't.

Do you need more details, Einstein?
 
Are we all done overreacting...? Good. A very, very, very good episode of RAW last night. We had surprises, good wrestling and intriguing storyline progression. SummerSlam, despite not having any matches set, looks to be a good card based on speculation alone. Jim Ross coming back was a nice move and fact of the matter is, he'll always be a batter play by play man than Michael Cole. Cole isn't as bad as some say, but he doesn't seem to have the same natural talent as Ross. Will Cole return to Monday's? I hope not, but suspect otherwise. Triple H didn't exactly address very much, but he did make sure we knew that he was in charge, hiring Ross, bringing Morrison back and announcing he'll be on SmackDown too.

Now, onto the WWE Championship scenario. The WWE title was won by Mysterio in a decent encounter with the Miz, but that match was overshadowed by a very good match between Mysterio and Cena. The first time as main eventers these two have faced off and I was not disappointed. Do I think it should have main evented SummerSlam? Probably, yes. In fact the last 30 minutes or so of RAW was exactly how I saw SummerSlam playing out, leading us to Night of Champions. However, it occurred last night. Did WWE hotshot the return of Punk. It's difficult to say when the man was on screen for all of 90 seconds, so I'm more than willing to give WWE a chance to explain what's going on with Punk.

Overall the best RAW of the year and an all around excellent show.
 
No offense, and I say this with all due respect to both of you, but I think TWJC and Zeven, you should either take your argument to private messages or create a new thread.

All in all, I thought the 7/25 raw was pretty solid. The matches were entertaining to watch and it was nice for some unpredictability thrown in there (for example, I had no idea if miz or mysterio was going to win the challenge).

I do have to say though that I was disappointed by the divas match. I know that right now the WWE is really really high on Kelly, but I just can't get behind her. She seems like a genuinely nice person, but in the ring she does not look credible. She's too scrawny so she has no power behind her moves. Watch her do a run/bounce against the ropes sometime, she barely even grazes the ropes. And I don't know who melina pissed off backstage, but it is a little sad to see how far she's fallen since she made her last return.
 
I don't hate TNA. When I said "TNA is a pimple on Vince McMahon's ass" I as more referring to the fact that TNA isn't close to catching Vince and never will be.

Nobody cares. If It was such a pimple, Cena would not have hinted going there in his promo as a option if he was fired from WWE.
I prefer WWE to TNA (as most people do) but I don't hate TNA. I was at Lockdown a year ago. I had a good time doing the "generic indy pose" with all the ROH guys. I asked RVD about legalizing pot, I told Angle his book was inspirational, I told Bischoff he made me a wrestling fan, I marked when I got to do the kliq jesture with Hall and Nash.
Nobody cares. This is like saying negative shit about gay people but saying "I have gay friends!"
Having an open mind and being stupid are 2 different things.
90% of WWE lovers do not have an open mind OUTSIDE of WWE. That is the point here.
I can say TNA has a good show. However, TNA could string together 5 years worth of the most amazing wrestling shows ever and it probably wouldn't touch WWE.
Who the fuck cares? Both companies are branded off TWO different things. WWE is entertainment/half-assed wrestling. TNA is wrestling/half assed entertainment.
WWE is too big and has too much brand recognition.
No shit. Maybe 50 years of business would do that to a company.
I'm a business student at a school that ranked top 10% in the nation, plus I have an economics minor. My education and knowledge of business and economics won't allow me to say TNA has a legitimate shot at being Vince.
Do you like to blow hot air? If, so you can come work as a hair dryer!

It's like if you are racing against a horse and the horse has a head start. You can get into absolute top physical performance, but you're dealing with a different animal and you're already at a disadvantage.
Are you simply saying these things to avoid the spamming rule?
I like TNA. It pisses me off sometimes.
Like Raw? Oh wait....We are shitting on it right?

However, I don't go over there and shit on every episode of their TV programming.
Everyone else does. Why not join in the fun? It's like one big internet orgy!

I don't rant and rave about it. I don't continue to insult it with illogical reasoning after people tell me I'm wrong and prove to me why. If
Wanna bet?

WWE marks praise WWE for pushing Sheamus, Barrett, Swagger as young guys. Despite the fact they were pushed HARD to soon.

TNA now has pushed Crimson and Gunner nearly the same way. But they are criticized for it and not pushing people who deserve it....Which are in their 30s and Gunner and Crimson are in their 20s...

People shit on WWE and WWE fans due to the HYPOCRISY of their opinions.

they did I certainly wouldn't continue with the same arguments that I used before. In fact, I'm TRYING to like TNA. It doesn't sound like you're trying to do anything with WWE other than find ways to bitch about every segment.
I tried and loved WWE the last 3 weeks. They ruined anything they did the last 3 weeks in 2 hours. That's not finding ways to bitch about it. It's fact.

I saw NOTHING different to what I've seen in June, May, April, March.
Again, why be so bitter?
Because Rey Mysterio wins the WWE title, then gets forced into a title shot against Cena. Mysterio vs Cena (PPV match given away for free....Which is frowned upon in TNA)...Then Mysterio loses to Cena? when he just had the title 2 weeks ago?

Again, If any other company booked their top guy like Cena. They would be criticized for creating Goldberg 2.0 and the WCW comparisons will come soon after.

Then EVERY single fuck up last night gets a pass due to "Cult Of Personality"....a song. Just a song.

That's the problem. Nothing about Raw has changed.

Silly me thinking, Triple H addressed the roster. Announces a new WWE championship belt, new feuds created, taking the spotlight from Cena and giving it to someone else, etc.
 
1.Promos - they are deficient of emotion, or proper emotion. I don't feel like the person cutting the promo is feeling the words he's saying. They're just saying their lines like they were told to. The best and most memorable pro wrestling promos were spontaneous for the most part. They came straight from the heart and the viewer could feel the emotion expressed at that point. Whether it was written or not, the promo was felt. It was delivered well. I come from a family of actors and one thing I was taught was that fun and passion are contagious. WWE doesn't have that, therefore the promos don't click.

I don't get that with the WWE. Currently they don't have a solid amount of mic workers. Only Cena, Truth, Punk and recently Triple H who came back to RAW. That's it from MNR. I don't watch SmackDown! but Christian and Orton can hold their own on the mic. Everyone else doesn't know how to cut a promo. It's not passionate. They don't mean it. They don't feel it and I don't as well. No matter how good a storyline could be, when you give the mic to someone who doesn't know how to talk the storyline's value drops immensely.

The delivery is not the only issue. The content is weak. Whoever's writing it is not doing a good job. They're not saying anything new. They're not saying anything interesting. There are no thought provoking dialogues, the interviews are basic and repetitive. I simply don't care about what he or she has to say because he or she already delivers it poorly and what he or she says is irrelevant because of the writing. Plus, they have this stupid (as someone called it) "where's my camera angle" look on their faces all the time. It's thrown together so he or she just says something to further the storyline.

That's the issue with the promos. They're weak. The delivery is lacking and so is the content. The writers only produce something better for the Main Eventers. Everyone else is served basic shit and has to make it shine.

2. Matches - I don't like spot fests. Stop assuming. The problem with the majority of WWE's matches is pacing, reason and story. Very, VERY few people in WWE know how to tell a good story. I'd say it's less than five or six. C.M Punk, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker and Christian. John Cena and Randy Orton are not included for obvious reasons. They have to be carried but that's not the point.

-- Pacing: most of WWE's matches are very slow and repetitive. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Switch of offense. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Finish. With the lack of story in such a match, it makes for a pretty boring part of the show. Look at some of the better matches in TNA and WWE in general. They start off slow with some nice chain grappling, then the pace picks up more and more but doesn't get too fast unless it's a cruiserweight match, and it just builds until the finish. In WWE it picks up, stops, picks up, stops and then finish. Such a buzz kill.

-- Story: There is none 96% of the time. It's bascially two people in the ring, having a 10 minute match, each hitting his moves in a random manner and one of them winning. They don't tell stories with their bodies, with their body language, their facial expressions. They just hit their moves and go home.

-- Purpose: The purpose of the match is often forgettable. It's just another match. There's nothing behind it to make me care. Not a promo to hype it beforehand, nothing. And even if there WAS a promo we already have the shitty promo issue with people not being able to cut great promos, so the match is fucked from the beginning. It's very basic. Lazy. Not much thought put into it. One good example of how to do it right are the random Rock matches from way back when. The Rock would get a match against Eddue Guerrero, The Hurricane, Bully Gunn - you name it. But he'd make you care. He'd cut a promo and hype the thing so you have a reason to see him whoop someone's candy ass. The writing was EXCELLENT. Rock was hilarious, he'd drop some awesome one-liners and the overall talent back then was better. They'd play off of eachother and improvise when needed. They knew what to do and how to do it and it worked.

3. Storylines - unless your name is Cena you will not get any consistent attention from the writers . Just about every storyline is about nothing. There is no conflict between two individuals who antagonize eachother for actual reasons. There's nothing at stake (that matters). There is no clash of opinions, ideology (aside from you bad I good) or anything. Look at Kofi and Ziggler. They've been facing off for such a long time. Does anybody know what the beef is? Why the fuck are they still fighting? Who the hell knows? Last night we got Del Rio vs Kofi. While it's not a long term storyline, it's just Del Rio wanting his revenge for losing.

Every storyline revolves around X attacking Z and Z attacking X and X attacking Z back and Z costing X a match and they face off. There's no progression. There's no character development. There's match after match until the PPV. No time for promos where both men present their argument to the audience so they can get INVESTED in the feud. WWE just expects you to cheer the face and boo the heel because the face is the face and the heel is the heel.

And it all comes back full circle. A fan like me sees a bunch of heels and faces that are more of a shell than an individual. I don't know what they stand for, I don't know who they are and why they're doing what they're doing. They are only defined by their alignment and that makes them all stand for the same things. Faces are happy and fair, heels are angry, cowardly at times and cheat. I can't invest in the roster, therefore I don't care what happens to the people involved in storylines.

Still, they get on the mic and they can't talk. I can't feel what they're saying, I don't are because they don't seem to care. They become even more dull.

And now we have a weak story between two people that don't have a DEFINED personality, can't make me care about them through their mic work and don't bring to the table anything that anyone else on the roster can't.

Do you need more details, Einstein?

Only because I know you, I'm going to hope this whole thing you're doing here is done for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) You are doing all of this as retribution for all the times you felt "WWE marks" came in and said that type of stuff about TNA. I can only hope this is the reason because you just spent like 10 paragraphs without being specific about anything when you were asked to be specific from the get-go. I can only hope you are smarter than everyone thinks and are doing this solely to stick in everyone's craw and to point out "their" hypocrisy. Otherwise, you are coming off as the biggest idiot on the planet and your plan to "show WWE fans the way" will hold absolutely no water as you are making the mistakes you say the "WWE idiots" make, only you are making them worse and in grander fashion.

2) (And I kinda hope it's more the first one) You decided to watch WWE again, something you swore you wouldn't do, and did so with a defeatist attitude. You WANTED to hate it, despite saying you gave it a chance to impress you. You have such a vendetta against the WWE for whatever reason, that you had to play off of other people's emotions. You HATED that people were loving the WWE because in your warped mind, you saw this as making it less likely for people to like TNA (two concepts that don't actually work as polar opposites btw). You figured that if people got too into WWE, they'd shit on TNA more, so you watched the show, picked it apart without logic or reason, and hoped people would go "wow, he's right. WWE sucks, I should try TNA". Unfortunately, all you accomplished was negative backlash against you because you're basically the only person to hate last night's episode and the storyline progression in general.

I sincerely hope it's choice 1 and that you are actually smarter than us all. If it's not, you certainly aren't. All the things people do to your favorite show, you did in reverse but did it a lot worse. You can't expect people to see it your way when you make the mistakes they make but do it in a way that makes you sound less intelligent than any of the "enemies". The thing is, you and the other TNA loyalists, you pick posters who sound the stupidest and generalize the WWE audience to be those people. There could be 99 good, logical posts from WWE fans that you read, but you'll pick out the dumbest sounding one, quote that one, and say something like "wow, all WWE marks are the same", and it's all based on the one idiot of the bunch. At the same time, you sound just like those people, coming into the WWE forums and mindlessly bashing their product without so much as using more than the same bullshit rhetoric you think people use towards TNA.

I won't go any further because I'm sure it won't prove anything to you. I just felt I should chime in because you and I have chatted about as much as you have with anyone on these forums so maybe I know you a little better than everyone else. I hope you are doing this and will reveal soon that you were simply playing on people's insecurities and that everything you said was meant to be stupid and hypocritical to show what you are used to reading. I really hope that is the conclusion to this story. Otherwise, you look like a jealous and petty teen, riddled with angst, who is trying to put others down to pick yourself up. I'm hoping for the best bro, let's find out.
 
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Mixed feelings about RAW. Had to take the good with the bad.

Glad to see J.R. and Morrison back. I even enjoyed the Cole-Ryder match. Cole in the Triple H getup was good for a laugh, and surprisingly he didn't look quite as disgusting as he did in his singlet, even though now he was half naked. Weird. And of course Ryder finally got some air time. Even a full ring entrance. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

Mysterio winning the belt was ok. Even Cena winning it back at the end of the night was ok. This "WWE title" doesn't matter anyway, because it marks only a paper champ.

As for Punk, well, of course it's great he's back. But why so soon? It feels like they panicked and jumped the gun, fearing that without Punk the ratings would sink. They should have dragged this out and have him do this at Summerslam. "Cult of Personality." Hmm. Actually not a bad song for him, and the 11 fans who remember him from RoH probably had a geekasm, but I really like his other theme. I hope this instance was only part of his mindgames and he returns to his WWE theme eventually.
 
1.Promos - they are deficient of emotion, or proper emotion. I don't feel like the person cutting the promo is feeling the words he's saying. They're just saying their lines like they were told to. The best and most memorable pro wrestling promos were spontaneous for the most part. They came straight from the heart and the viewer could feel the emotion expressed at that point. Whether it was written or not, the promo was felt. It was delivered well. I come from a family of actors and one thing I was taught was that fun and passion are contagious. WWE doesn't have that, therefore the promos don't click.

I don't get that with the WWE. Currently they don't have a solid amount of mic workers. Only Cena, Truth, Punk and recently Triple H who came back to RAW. That's it from MNR. I don't watch SmackDown! but Christian and Orton can hold their own on the mic. Everyone else doesn't know how to cut a promo. It's not passionate. They don't mean it. They don't feel it and I don't as well. No matter how good a storyline could be, when you give the mic to someone who doesn't know how to talk the storyline's value drops immensely.

The delivery is not the only issue. The content is weak. Whoever's writing it is not doing a good job. They're not saying anything new. They're not saying anything interesting. There are no thought provoking dialogues, the interviews are basic and repetitive. I simply don't care about what he or she has to say because he or she already delivers it poorly and what he or she says is irrelevant because of the writing. Plus, they have this stupid (as someone called it) "where's my camera angle" look on their faces all the time. It's thrown together so he or she just says something to further the storyline.

That's the issue with the promos. They're weak. The delivery is lacking and so is the content. The writers only produce something better for the Main Eventers. Everyone else is served basic shit and has to make it shine.

2. Matches - I don't like spot fests. Stop assuming. The problem with the majority of WWE's matches is pacing, reason and story. Very, VERY few people in WWE know how to tell a good story. I'd say it's less than five or six. C.M Punk, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker and Christian. John Cena and Randy Orton are not included for obvious reasons. They have to be carried but that's not the point.

-- Pacing: most of WWE's matches are very slow and repetitive. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Switch of offense. Rest hold, move, lie down for 10 seconds. Finish. With the lack of story in such a match, it makes for a pretty boring part of the show. Look at some of the better matches in TNA and WWE in general. They start off slow with some nice chain grappling, then the pace picks up more and more but doesn't get too fast unless it's a cruiserweight match, and it just builds until the finish. In WWE it picks up, stops, picks up, stops and then finish. Such a buzz kill.

-- Story: There is none 96% of the time. It's bascially two people in the ring, having a 10 minute match, each hitting his moves in a random manner and one of them winning. They don't tell stories with their bodies, with their body language, their facial expressions. They just hit their moves and go home.

-- Purpose: The purpose of the match is often forgettable. It's just another match. There's nothing behind it to make me care. Not a promo to hype it beforehand, nothing. And even if there WAS a promo we already have the shitty promo issue with people not being able to cut great promos, so the match is fucked from the beginning. It's very basic. Lazy. Not much thought put into it. One good example of how to do it right are the random Rock matches from way back when. The Rock would get a match against Eddue Guerrero, The Hurricane, Bully Gunn - you name it. But he'd make you care. He'd cut a promo and hype the thing so you have a reason to see him whoop someone's candy ass. The writing was EXCELLENT. Rock was hilarious, he'd drop some awesome one-liners and the overall talent back then was better. They'd play off of eachother and improvise when needed. They knew what to do and how to do it and it worked.

3. Storylines - unless your name is Cena you will not get any consistent attention from the writers . Just about every storyline is about nothing. There is no conflict between two individuals who antagonize eachother for actual reasons. There's nothing at stake (that matters). There is no clash of opinions, ideology (aside from you bad I good) or anything. Look at Kofi and Ziggler. They've been facing off for such a long time. Does anybody know what the beef is? Why the fuck are they still fighting? Who the hell knows? Last night we got Del Rio vs Kofi. While it's not a long term storyline, it's just Del Rio wanting his revenge for losing.

Every storyline revolves around X attacking Z and Z attacking X and X attacking Z back and Z costing X a match and they face off. There's no progression. There's no character development. There's match after match until the PPV. No time for promos where both men present their argument to the audience so they can get INVESTED in the feud. WWE just expects you to cheer the face and boo the heel because the face is the face and the heel is the heel.

And it all comes back full circle. A fan like me sees a bunch of heels and faces that are more of a shell than an individual. I don't know what they stand for, I don't know who they are and why they're doing what they're doing. They are only defined by their alignment and that makes them all stand for the same things. Faces are happy and fair, heels are angry, cowardly at times and cheat. I can't invest in the roster, therefore I don't care what happens to the people involved in storylines.

Still, they get on the mic and they can't talk. I can't feel what they're saying, I don't are because they don't seem to care. They become even more dull.

And now we have a weak story between two people that don't have a DEFINED personality, can't make me care about them through their mic work and don't bring to the table anything that anyone else on the roster can't.

Do you need more details, Einstein?
REST HOLD!!!??!?!! Go to any actual wrestling academy and complain about restholds. You'll get laughed at. There is no such fucking thing as rest hold except in shitty indy spotfests. In the WWE they WORK HOLDS. It's not a "rest". So right there you show you do not have any depth in your understanding of a match.

I agree, some of the promos sound too scripted and the guys lack an energy. This is because they're young though. So I tolerate it because I know the WWE roster is very young and it's fun to watch the guys grow.

TNA has better matches? No, Kurt Angle doesn't have a single legitimate finish because he's killed all his. RVD has never sold a fucking thing for more than a minute. Mr. Anderson is average. The X guys don't sell anything. WWE's matches aren't as slow paced as you think, the worked hold's they use make the crowd give a shit about the babyface. I'm going to reccommend you watch Secrets of the Ring with Al Snow. He gets extremely pissed when they ask him about "rest holds".

WWE matches don't tell stories? Yea they do, you just can't pick up on it. If you want me to do an in depth analysis of every Raw match from now on I will. As far as you loving Rock's promos on Hurricane and stuff like that. Again, you come across as an attitude era mark who wants things to be like that again. Times have changed. The matches of today are of a much higher quality and variety than that of the attitude era. You wanna know the formula of the attitude era? Punch, kick, run in, match over.

As far as not caring about the stories, yea some guys aren't as fleshed out in their characters. They're young, most are pretty talented in the ring and every night they grow. Miz vs Riley, any Cena feud, Alberto Del Rio vs anyone, R-Truth, these are all very well fleshed out characters/feuds. I don't see what you're complaining about. Go actually rewatch the attitude era. It makes no fucking sense and is a bunch of pimps, pornstars, and hicks running around turning every 5 seconds having 1 minute matches. It's not as awesome as you think it was. Watching the attitude era now as someone who knows what to look for is like watching that shitty cartoon series you loved as a kid and realizing it's not all that great.

Again, if you hate the WWE so much and can't see any redeeming qualities, why watch? You aren't even willing to see the good stuff that really does occur. I give TNA a chance all the time and I don't go on those boards and hijack them with comments. So far just talking to me, you've used straw man logic. You turned it into TNA vs WWE, which this wasn't even about. You just seem to bitter about the WWE and so defensive about TNA. You don't sound like you enjoy pro wrestling.

Nobody cares. If It was such a pimple, Cena would not have hinted going there in his promo as a option if he was fired from WWE.

Nobody cares. This is like saying negative shit about gay people but saying "I have gay friends!"

90% of WWE lovers do not have an open mind OUTSIDE of WWE. That is the point here.

Who the fuck cares? Both companies are branded off TWO different things. WWE is entertainment/half-assed wrestling. TNA is wrestling/half assed entertainment.

No shit. Maybe 50 years of business would do that to a company.

Do you like to blow hot air? If, so you can come work as a hair dryer!


Are you simply saying these things to avoid the spamming rule?

Like Raw? Oh wait....We are shitting on it right?


Everyone else does. Why not join in the fun? It's like one big internet orgy!


Wanna bet?

WWE marks praise WWE for pushing Sheamus, Barrett, Swagger as young guys. Despite the fact they were pushed HARD to soon.

TNA now has pushed Crimson and Gunner nearly the same way. But they are criticized for it and not pushing people who deserve it....Which are in their 30s and Gunner and Crimson are in their 20s...

People shit on WWE and WWE fans due to the HYPOCRISY of their opinions.


I tried and loved WWE the last 3 weeks. They ruined anything they did the last 3 weeks in 2 hours. That's not finding ways to bitch about it. It's fact.

I saw NOTHING different to what I've seen in June, May, April, March.

Because Rey Mysterio wins the WWE title, then gets forced into a title shot against Cena. Mysterio vs Cena (PPV match given away for free....Which is frowned upon in TNA)...Then Mysterio loses to Cena? when he just had the title 2 weeks ago?

Again, If any other company booked their top guy like Cena. They would be criticized for creating Goldberg 2.0 and the WCW comparisons will come soon after.

Then EVERY single fuck up last night gets a pass due to "Cult Of Personality"....a song. Just a song.

That's the problem. Nothing about Raw has changed.

Silly me thinking, Triple H addressed the roster. Announces a new WWE championship belt, new feuds created, taking the spotlight from Cena and giving it to someone else, etc.
lol "Cena wouldn't have hinted at it if it was such a pimple". Goddamn dude TNA isn't fucking close and Vince isn't scared. WWE has 80M dollars in plant, property, and equipment assets, I doubt TNA has 80M dollar in total assets. It was used to stir up the feud.

No it's not like saying negative shit and saying "I have gay friends" because I don't say negative shit. I say facts. Fact is WWE has a huge market share and brand recognition and is too far ahead for TNA to catch up anytime soon. That's not saying bad things about TNA, it's being realistic.

Wanna bet what? I said that I don't shit on TNA's programming on their boards. I didn't say I was speaking for the rest of the entire WWE thread posters. I don't even consider myself a WWE fan primarily but a wrestling fan primarily. I have spent more money on ROH than an other company over the past 10 years.

You are just like every other bitter stupid ass poster. You can't think for yourself, you're just a parrot of the general consensus of the IWC. Why don't you wait and see what happens? Or if you hate it so much, stop fucking watching.
 
I was hoping this was going to be a discussion about last nights Raw, which was great and should be discussed. Then I saw two hopeless morons trying to look intelligent, arguing back and forth whether the CM Punk angle was a work or not. The ending to last nights Raw was flawless, and the match is set for Summerslam!! I wonder how Rey felt about losing the belt the same night he won it? If anything, I thought they were going to have Mysterio/Cena next week. Either way WWE has nailed this angle. HHH is going to make a great replacement for Vince. He's funny, cocky, and knows how to work a mic. Just like Vince. As to the anonymous GM, I saw they had the laptop out there last night and I was waiting for HHH to reveal who it was.
 
The household Nielsen Ratings aren't out yet but the number of viewers for last night's show are in. On the whole, it's a mixed bag. It's being reported, as of now, that the show drew an average of 4.81 million viewers last night. If I'm not mistaken, that's the exact same number that the show last week drew, so I'd guess that the Nielsen Rating will be a 3.2 again this week. So the show didn't increase but it didn't decrease either.

To show you how out of touch I am with things politically, I had no idea that President Obama was giving a speech last night. I know that Lawler & Cole were sorta making fun of it but I thought they were just sort of making fun of the latest financial crisis situation and didn't pay any attention to it. Lawler & Cole tell so many lame jokes that I've just learned to tune them out. At any rate, Obama's speech looks like it bit into a good chunk of the 1st hour audience as the first hour drew 4.5 million viewers. The news networks like Fox News and CNN, which usually aren't even remotely a factor on Monday nights, drew much higher than average numbers. If you tally up the viewers from those two channels during the Raw timeslot, they average out to roughly 3.9 million and that's huge for them on Mondays.

However, there is some positive news out of that. Raw increased during the second hour as it was going head to head with Pawn Stars and Rizzoli & Isles. Both episodes of Pawn Stars were new and drew an average of 6.68 million viewers and Rizzoli & Isles drew just over 6 million viewers. Last night, the second hour of Raw drew 5.13 million viewers, so that's an increase of over 600,000 from hour 1. It was the first time in since the beginning of the CM Punk storyline that an any hour of Raw has scored 5 million viewers or more.

As CM Punk returned only in the closing minutes of Raw last night, I'm assuming that he'll have a far more prominent role on the show next week. Depending upon how next week's show does could have a huge influence. Since the Punk angle began, Raw's had the luck of airing during a huge national holiday, the usual competition on History Channel, the season premieres of two hugely popular shows on TNT and a speech from the President.

But, it's at least somewhat promising that the show increased so substantially in the second hour and a temporary ratings slump might be the price that Raw has to pay in the long run for, possibly, creating the next huge guy in the WWE.
 
I didn't care for the political banter to start out the show. A fake WWE championship match trending on Twitter is more important than the Presidential address or any other major issues that are going on in the world today? Miz and Mysterio did put on a great match and I wasn't crazy about seeing Mysterio win the strap only to lost it later. Cena had the unfair advantage on Mysterio since he was rested. Once Punk made his return it didn't matter though. Having said that, I like Mysterio and I'm glad he was able to add the WWE championship to his accomplishments, but I have no desire to see him as a long term champion.

I didn't care for the Divas or Keith Stone either but that is what DVR is for. I enjoyed Triple H's "surprises". Obviously John Morrison was never really resigned to a contract though. It is good to see Jim Ross back on Raw even if he isn't at 100%. I would rather have that then Booker T or Josh Matthews any day. The three man announce team may be a problem considering Cole usually bad mouths JR the whole time. I don't want to see another Cole vs. JR match.

Triple H and R Truth's exchange was corny but R Truth is cornball character. Cole acting as Triple H was funny. His opponent was lackluster though. I would have put Ryder in a match with Bourne or Ziggler instead of Cole. Ryder was on Raw though so Ryder fans can't complain. The rest of the matches were decent and we got a pretty good main event with Mysterio vs. Cena. I was let down seeing Cena yet again win the WWE championship so soon after he lost it. I'm glad Punk came out because it makes viewers want to tune in next week to see a confrontation or a possible rematch.

One problem is though is it too soon? WWE obviously has to act while this angle is hot, but seeing Punk leave for only a week with new merchandise, entrance video, and music is ridiculous. Why would he resign with Triple H if he looks down on the WWE machine and the McMahon family? I want to see how this angle develops though before I give up on it. There isn't any other angle going on today that is as exciting. SummerSlam also needs the money making main event match. Punk vs. Cena 2 for the WWE Championship might be the ticket.
 
For anyone who has complained about Punk returning early, would you have watched SS if Cena/Del Rio or Cena/Rey was headlining with the possibility that Punk MIGHT show up during the match? No. You wouldn't. You would probably bitch even more.

Fact is they need him back for SummerSlam and this angle is still interesting. It's not over yet at all so put your pitchforks down and let it play out and wait to see what happens next week.
 
One thing that is bothering me personally about RAW lately is R-Truth. While I like his new heel character, they gave him a title shot WAYYYY too soon. No one in the arena at Capitol Punishment believed, even for a second, that he was capable of winning the title. But my main concern is that he got way too comical tonight, like more than he has been lately, and I think it might be hurting his run as a heel. Isn't that why he turned heel in the first place? He said people weren't taking him seriously? Not to mention the fact that he's been losing a fair amount of matches lately aside from his win against Cena and is most likely gunna job to Morrison at Summerslam. The way things are going I see this character fading out sometime soon. But I feel like it can be attributed to the fact that he got his title match way before he should so people are starting to not care about him again.
 
This week is a 3.2 again.
So far this Punk angle has yet to produce a good rating. And the HHH/McMahon thing did nothing to spike the ratings either.

Is there any good reason? I keep hearing that ratings are always down in summer. But last summer ratings were actually pretty good. After WM27 ratings were pretty poor then they climbed in June and actually peaked in summer before nose-diving in september.
 
This week is a 3.2 again.
So far this Punk angle has yet to produce a good rating. And the HHH/McMahon thing did nothing to spike the ratings either.

Is there any good reason? I keep hearing that ratings are always down in summer. But last summer ratings were actually pretty good. After WM27 ratings were pretty poor then they climbed in June and actually peaked in summer before nose-diving in september.

Raw has been facing some stiff competition on TV the last 2 weeks or so & it's the summer, a 3.2 isn't too bad considering.
 
Why are we looking at ratings? Do we look at RBIs as the only way to judge a player? What did their twitter accounts do? What did their facebook accounts do? What did their website do? How many people watched on youtube?
 
Why are we looking at ratings? Do we look at RBIs as the only way to judge a player?
Not the only way, but it certainly is a way. Face it, two of the greatest storylines we've seen in months and RAW still hasnt gone up significantly in ratings. I dont see why you're being so defensive, if Vince was upset by the fact that the ratings didnt go up then I think thats clear indication that theres something wrong.
 
The internet says Vince was mad. I'm sure Vince is mad he's not a trillionaire though.

I realize that ratings are one indicator, but I think we put too much weight in it. Look at their ratings rankings, they're consistently near the top, look at their twitter and other internet measures, they're consistently near the top. They bring in like 2M people in live events every year, which is amazing.

Ultimately I don't think Pro wrestling will get that much more popular. I think they're at a peak. It's not bad. I mean, how many other programs run year round and are always near the top? None, that's how many. So I really don't see why we look at ratings from a practical standpoint or from a fanhood standpoint. WWE is a very very healthy company. Just mosey on over to finance.yahoo.com and look at their books.
 
The internet says Vince was mad. I'm sure Vince is mad he's not a trillionaire though.

I realize that ratings are one indicator, but I think we put too much weight in it. Look at their ratings rankings, they're consistently near the top, look at their twitter and other internet measures, they're consistently near the top. They bring in like 2M people in live events every year, which is amazing.

Ultimately I don't think Pro wrestling will get that much more popular. I think they're at a peak. It's not bad. I mean, how many other programs run year round and are always near the top? None, that's how many. So I really don't see why we look at ratings from a practical standpoint or from a fanhood standpoint. WWE is a very very healthy company. Just mosey on over to finance.yahoo.com and look at their books.
The only reason they make that much money is because they've basically taken over the pro wrestling biz and today kids are bringing in the money. Barney doesnt have a good storyline, but kids still get into it. The fact that WWE has gone all out, recieved so much media attention, closed a chapter of WWE history by putting the McMahon character to end and the ratings have stayed the same as when Miz was champ and everyone was bitching about it shows that WWE isnt becoming more productive. I'm not personally concerned about the ratings, granted I watch regardless of what happens, but its just something I cant seem to ignore.
 
They did the smart thing bringing CM Punk back quickly. He has a buzz right now they need to try to capitalize off that. Who knows how long it will last. I think people are kidding themselves comparing him to SCSA. I think he could have 2005 Batista type run though.

Anyway, ratings are a funny thing to judge week by week. They lost some viewers last week because of Obama. If some of those viewers watch this week and the ratings go up, is it because CM Punk is a big draw? Or because their is nothing better on? I think it was the Raw episode that featured Punk and Vince had low ratings and people were blaming the home run derby. IMO raw ratings depend more on what their competition is that night and not CM Punk.

Punk has become an IWC god. If ratings do go up he will be given the sole credit. If ratings stay the same or go down... people will just say its not Punk's fault the rest of the WWE is garbage. :lmao:
 
I didnt enjoy today's Raw for a few reasons but mainly having a bad day in general. But...I felt as if Punk had his weakest outing so far. He sounded, like he back being held back some how. Acting very easy, he never got into detail as to what point he was coming across. I felt like he could have gone into detail about HHH, from 2000, Evolution, and even today about how HHH has been hogging the title, always in the picture and not really giving anyone else the chance, something like that.

The more i think about HHH involvment just messes with my head. I dont want to see Punk buried by Trips because i know its gonna happen. But Hunters involvment is just interesting because i want to see if Punk can really step it up against the head guy of WWE.

Other than that, it makes me sad that the people these past 2 Raw's arent behind Punk really. I thought this crowd was kind of weak again. Beth vs Kelly is fine, but man how can Melina seriously lose like this, as soon as the match began she was gone, wtf happened to Melina? Wow.

Ryder was on Raw but with Santino so i guess this comedy pairing is gonna happen, i wish Ryder could team with someone else, maybe Bourne? He deserves a title instead of jobbing to Del Rio at this point in his career.

Alex Riley and Dolph was short and to the point. Dolph is gonna drop Vickie soon, he needs to establish himself without a manager. A-Ry is so good with the mic its good to see hes getting into a good fued and possibly a US title match.

I saw the ending coming from a mile away so i guess there's no need to get into that. Raw was ok, i guess.
 
Don't have time for an in depth review for Raw this week.

I enjoyed the opening segment a lot. Punk was smooth as ever on the mic and did a great job of putting himself and the WWE Championship over. He also touched on some of the stuff the IWC likes to complain about, like WWE being this big corporation and all. I liked the tension between Punk & Triple H and I'm wondering if the ground has been laid for a feud between them at some point in the future. Both of them talking about egos was pretty convincing and I'm sure there's a decent amount of truth there.

The Divas Battle Royal wasn't anything special, though it was better than I thought it'd be. While extremely short for a battle royal at only 8 minutes, it's still quite long by Diva standards. Beth Phoenix winning was the right call to make as was her heel turn and beating down Kelly Kelly. Not great but above average for the Divas. *

The R-Truth & Miz segment backstage worked out pretty well. Truth trying to spell conspiracy did get a little bit of a chuckle out of me.

I thought the tag match between Truth & Miz vs. Rey Mysterio & John Morrison was very entertaining. Good action, nice energetic pace with a couple of good near falls here and there. I thought the part where Miz is taunting Mysterio and Mysterio comes within just inches of tagging in JoMo was a nice touch. The heels clicked well and got the win at the 12 minute mark after Truth hits his finisher on Morrison. I expected the faces to win so it's nice to see the heels get some heat. I'm assuming it'll be JoMo vs. Truth & Mysterio vs. Miz at SummerSlam. ***

I thought the segment with Alex Riley, Dolph Ziggler & Vickie was ok. Nothing overly special, but I like that they're giving Ziggler these promo segments. It's been a while since the reigning United States Champion got some real time on the mic. Ziggler was solid in his role even though some of his stuff was a little cliche`. Vickie continues to draw great heat and Riley got a nice pop from the crowd.

The tag match between Otunga & McGuillicutty vs. Santino Marella & Zack Ryder was pretty short. Some decent action while it lasted but ultimately too short to mean much. While the matches need to be longer, it's good to see the champs picking up some wins. *

Alberto Del Rio vs. Evan Bourne was a decent 4 minute match. The outcome was never really in doubt and the match served to build up some good heat for Del Rio. Bourne got his shots in but Del Rio comes out with the win via the armbar submission. *3/4

The closing segment was alright, nothing overly spectacular, but it did do it's job of moving things along. JL came across like a soulless fink and I think that was pretty much the intention. The guy practically oozed smugness. John Cena's impersonation of the guy's voice was dead on. I expected Triple H's decision to have a match between the two at SummerSlam. With next week being the go home Raw, I find myself hoping that they'll wind up making it a gimmick match of some type, maybe even an Iron Man match.

Overall, Raw was pretty solid tonight. It wasn't as good as last week or really as good as the past several weeks and I didn't expect it to be. The show has been red hot as of late with all these cliffhangers and unanswered questions hanging about so it was bound to settle down a bit at some point. The matches did serve a point on the show. Beth Phoenix goes heel and is the #1 contender for the Divas Championship after winning the battle royal. Truth & Miz get some nice heat for themselves with their win tonight for what I'm assuming will be singles matches for them against JoMo & Mystero respectively. The other tag match wasn't much but it gave the reigning tag champs another victory. Del Rio defeated Bourne to build some heat for himself and I'm assuming it'll be him against Kofi at SummerSlam. The closing segment was a little anti-climactic but, as I said, can't have this huge cliffhangers each and every week and there's still another Raw until SummerSlam.

Overall, I give the show tonight a C+ or maybe, just maybe, a B-.
 

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