Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread | Page 137 | WrestleZone Forums

Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter raymond27913
  • Start date Start date

Grade tonight's RAW.

  • A

  • B

  • C

  • D

  • F


Results are only viewable after voting.
I don't disagree with you at all. I am a huge fan of Jericho and Rock. But they got the biggest pops by far. That is not good long-term is all. You have Sheamus, Ryback and Cena and the response was middling at best. I just feel that the WWE is stuck in a rut, mostly of their own doing. They have all this talent and a lot of young guys coming up but not properly being built or utilized. If you are trying to be facetious because my opinion differs from yours then more power to you. For years Christmas came every day with Austin, the Rock, Hogan and Sting and Goldberg and others. Like I said it seems that the WWE is rudderless at times.

ADR is now a grinning face. Just happy all the time. Sandow has a shit load of talent and they broke up the tag team, and now he seems to be jobbing every week. Other than Punk and now Henry who they bring back, and is in the down part of his career are the only strong heels. I hope the Shield will be given a fair shake and we will see on Sunday.
i think your fan hood is clouding your judgment. Everyone got pretty good reactions. Daniel Bryan got a ton of chants and "YES" and "NO". I don't think WWE is in a rut, they are building up a lot of talent. Alberto is getting over, Ziggler is getting over, everyone is getting over.

I'm not being facetious, I was a fan before the attitude era. Sandow jobbing means nothing, he's a chicken shit heel. If he were beating guys clean, it wouldn't fit his character. NOBODY believes its real, so win/loss means very little. Sandow gets mic time and exposure every week, if he keeps getting more over, he'll get a push. That's how it works. Get over, get pushed, don't get over, don't get pushed.
 
I think Punk leaving RAW with the WWE title will lead to The Rock debuting a new WWE title design.

If they stick with the storyline and don't just give the belt back to The Rock backstage, then this opens the door for Rock to debut a new belt at the Elimination Chamber or the next RAW. Punk can then do what he did a couple years ago and keep "his" championship belt as a side storyline going into 'Mania.
 
Last week was only the 2nd episode of Raw I have watched in nearly 6 months and I thought it was a good show, this weeks wasn't quite as strong but still a good leap ahead of the Raw I watched at the start of the year.

At 3 hours I just cannot remember the run order so I'm just going to comment on what I liked and didn't. The opening promo from Heyman and Punk was fun, it's probably leading somewhere but given Punk's Pope comment I don't know if these two were just running a skit.

Bryan vs Jericho was an excellent match and I'd love to see them get more time on a PPV. Jericho winning made sense and strengthened the Chamber match.

Booker heeling on Teddy was odd.

I've enjoyed Swagger's return and while I don't see him as a face I did think that his Real American stuff being pushed to the forefront was going to lead to him vs Cesaro over the US title with Swagger getting the Patriotism rub....but no, apparently he's been hanging out with a racist redneck during his time away and is basically now a white supremacist heel. Tennessee was an odd choice of location to debut this and I'm not sure it's a gimmick suited to PG era WWE.

One thing I've noticed is Lawler has become even more unbearable on commentary, him and Cole are toxic, I wish they'd move JBL to Raw so we could have someone that sounds like an adult call the action. It was particularly bad from Lawler during the Shield vs the Superfriends segment, and him and Cole were like two teen girls at a Bieber concert when Rock came out, their audible giggling at his juvenile jokes was cringe worthy.

I didn't catch 3MB vs the Superfriends but I saw the finish with all 3 hitting their big moves, Vince must have bust out the lube for that visual. The post match promo was mostly generic scripted soundbytes.

The simple little story between Barrett and Bo Dallas is working quite well and I thought Barrett vs Kofi was solid with a cool Finlay inspired finish.

Miz is terrible as a face and I think Cesaro could do with a manager and it wouldn't hurt to get rid of his dated gimmick, however him swinging Miz over and over into the barricade was the funniest thing on the show, they need to focus more on his beastly strength and less on how much he hates Americans.

I get why Khali vs Henry happened but after his awesome return I wish they'd booked him with someone who could have made him look good in his first Raw match back. This was a stinker but Henry murderlizing Swaggle post-match was great, somewhere King Kong Bundy was smiling.

The Shield's promo was very good, Rollins has come a long way on the mic since his Tyler Black days, Reigns was ok but should just stick to growling and looking like a beast. Ambrose is on a whole other level, there is money to be made off that strange young man. The brawl with the Superfriends was decent and should lead to the 6 man tag becoming a Chamber match.

Where is the Divas champion? I've not seen her at all since my brief return to watching WWE.

I imagine Ziggler lost to Kane because he's gonna cash in on Bertie at the PPV, or maybe he just lost because that's what he does most of time, personally I wish he'd won as it would have added extra quality to the Chamber match this Sunday....The finish perhaps hinted at an imminent rift between Dolph and Urkel on roids.

The closing segment was a bit boring, Rock was apparently going to address the shocking stip added to his title defense, however he spent 10 minutes sucking up to Nasville with an unfunny story that sounded like it was written by some film student who idolizes Quentin Tarantino. Finally Punk came out to remind Rock they had a match for that gold monstrosity over his shoulder, Rock makes a limp Twilight joke that I didn't get as unlike him I've never seen the films, then they had a brief brawl that did it's job, Heyman showed his worth by hooking Rock's foot and allowing Punk to get the advantage. Then Punk left with the belt to continue his delusional arc as Lawler and Cole yelled into their headsets, their voices filled with tearful outrage!


All in all a solid show that sets the PPV up reasonably well.
 
i think your fan hood is clouding your judgment. Everyone got pretty good reactions. Daniel Bryan got a ton of chants and "YES" and "NO". I don't think WWE is in a rut, they are building up a lot of talent. Alberto is getting over, Ziggler is getting over, everyone is getting over.

I'm not being facetious, I was a fan before the attitude era. Sandow jobbing means nothing, he's a chicken shit heel. If he were beating guys clean, it wouldn't fit his character. NOBODY believes its real, so win/loss means very little. Sandow gets mic time and exposure every week, if he keeps getting more over, he'll get a push. That's how it works. Get over, get pushed, don't get over, don't get pushed.
There's no fan-hood or whatever clouding anything. The same could be said about you or anyone. You are correct, Bryan is over. This is what WWE needs to do. I disagree about Sandow though and others. You cannot have the secondary title holders losing so much. There are plenty of other guys to feed to Superfriends and others, as you need to keep IC/US belts legit and those holding it strong.

I know WWE knows how to make talent. But it is hard to get over when you are trading wins and losses in the midcard week after week. It perpetuates the cycle, the midcard is big and the WWE needs to create guys that can stand out from the pack. Sandow/Rhodes/Ziggler/Barrett (even Swagger) and more have that potential. These guys can get over better but it hurts if they keep trading wins/losses and then more often than not lose to the guys at the top all the time. I just don't think you can have faces win all the time....

ADR is not bad. I like him. I may not like the grinning, generic face that he is, but he has charisma. The response I have seen is certainly not negative but it is not WCW champ worthy. But he is being built up, so it is too early to tell and they fumbled a bit when he was a heel.

I really like Ziggler. They should have ended the Cena feud at TLC and that would have helped immensely. And while wins and losses don't really mean much in wrestling they do have an impact, such as what I said above about trading losses and if you lose too much then the fans have no real reason to cheer for you. I am not sure what Ziggler's loss to Kane does. Probably nothing but it certainly does him no favors.
 
There's no fan-hood or whatever clouding anything. The same could be said about you or anyone. You are correct, Bryan is over. This is what WWE needs to do. I disagree about Sandow though and others. You cannot have the secondary title holders losing so much. There are plenty of other guys to feed to Superfriends and others, as you need to keep IC/US belts legit and those holding it strong.

I know WWE knows how to make talent. But it is hard to get over when you are trading wins and losses in the midcard week after week. It perpetuates the cycle, the midcard is big and the WWE needs to create guys that can stand out from the pack. Sandow/Rhodes/Ziggler/Barrett (even Swagger) and more have that potential. These guys can get over better but it hurts if they keep trading wins/losses and then more often than not lose to the guys at the top all the time. I just don't think you can have faces win all the time....

ADR is not bad. I like him. I may not like the grinning, generic face that he is, but he has charisma. The response I have seen is certainly not negative but it is not WCW champ worthy. But he is being built up, so it is too early to tell and they fumbled a bit when he was a heel.

I really like Ziggler. They should have ended the Cena feud at TLC and that would have helped immensely. And while wins and losses don't really mean much in wrestling they do have an impact, such as what I said above about trading losses and if you lose too much then the fans have no real reason to cheer for you. I am not sure what Ziggler's loss to Kane does. Probably nothing but it certainly does him no favors.
How do you know the loss to Kane does him no favors? You don't know the end of the story. It could be a catalyst for something else. My biggest problem with people who bitch about wins and losses is, you aren't writing the show. WWE can amplify a win, or make it insignificant. Wins and losses aren't as important as the full story which we don't know. It's not a "real" sport. If you lose for 2 months, then turn heel and start cheating to win, guess what? That helped you get over. If you look at segments of that story it wouldn't make sense, but you don't know the full story. Ziggler's character wins and loses back and forth, he's kind of also teasing face turns and then going back to heeling on people. It's creating a feeling that he's about to breakout or do something drastic (cash in). Another beef I have with armchair bookers is most of them do things and want things way too formulaic.
 
It was an ok show tonight I thought, the opening promo between Cena and Punk was pretty good, I liked the way they played off each other and I'm guessing this is designed for Cena to get a clean win over Punk before facing Rock.

The first match was a no DQ match between Miz and Cesaro that for some reason Miz won, it's about 3 decades too late to make the figure four a devastating submission hold.

I think Del Rio vs Ziggler was next, it was a decent match with Dolph tapping out in a clean loss to Berie for the 3rd week in a row. the big cash-in tease after Urkel on roids destroyed Del Rio post-match was well done with the Ricardo and AJ interceptions. Del Rio still gets practically no reaction though.

There's one of those awkward backstage segments between Orton, Bryan and Kane where they come off like they are trying to remember their lines, this informs that Bryan will face Swagger and Orton will face Kane.

Brodus and Tensai show up for a tag match around this time, the only thing I can remember about it is that Naomi is a fun athlete to watch.

Mark Henry squashes Sin Cara and then they tease a match between him and Khali, something I can't imagine anyone wanting to see.

The Divas champion Kaitlyn apparently tweets something according to the ticker, but despite being on over 3 hours she doesn't make the actual show.

Wade Barrett comes out and promotes a new WWE backed movie starring Colin Farrell and Noomi Rapace, it actually looks quite good, Sheamus pops up on the tron to mock the fact Barrett is barely seen in the trailer after he'd proclaimed himself the star. I don't think this will lead anywhere but I wouldn't mind Barrett vs Sheamus at Mania.

Swagger and Colter come out to cut a promo where Colter tries to bill Swagger vs Del Rio as a fight for the soul of America, the audience just seems disinterested and chant what!? now and then.

Swagger vs Bryan is a good bout with plenty of back and forth, obviously Swagger wins with the ankle lock, Bryan's so over he's teflon so no harm done.

Heyman and Vickie's sexual chemistry continues to sizzle, she hires Brad Maddox as her assistant, he cuts an odd promo that has Heyman looking confused. Then Vince pops up on the screen like a giant smug ******** and informs Heyman they'll be fighting each other next week, cue the next step on the road to Triple H getting his win back from Lesnar at Mania.

Earlier in the night there was a horrible promo between Sheamus and Roidback with them grunting about their loss at the PPV, Jon Bon Jericho interrupted them and slapped them on the chest a lot while convincing them to face The Shield with him tonight.

The Shield vs Sheamus/Y2J/Roidback is easily the best thing on the show, a frenetic tag match that delivered non stop action and once again had The Shield coming out looking like stars, they really are the best booked heels in a long time. I do like this rivalry within the matches between Sheamus and Reigns, their beast stuff is far more convincing than Roidback who I am guessing hurt a few guys with the meathook clothesline as he's now throwing it at less than half pace.

Kofi vs Sandow is a non starter but does feature a good promo from the latter before R Truth comes out wearing a grannies hair net and beats down Sandow to save Kofi.

Kane vs Orton is the last match on the show, I wasn't really paying attention but Bryan once again costs Kane, at this juncture I am guessing they will face each other at Mania as opposed to defending the tag titles.

I muted the last segment but the new belt is only slightly less tacky than the one it's replacing. I saw Cena come out and switched the volume on expecting something to happen, then Punk takes out Cena with the old belt, throws it down and tells Rock he wants the new one. Punk and Rock have a stare down and Cena lies in pain on the ramp, Rock bounces about and challenges Punk to come fight. Punk just turns and walks to the back to end the show.

They still have 6 Raw's between now and Mania so I'm not surprised this show felt a bit like filler with plenty of guys still without a clear direction for the granddaddy. Still, it did set two matches up for next week that should sort out the top 3 matches for Mania.
 
WWE Raw
February 18, 2013
Lafayette, Louisiana
The Cajundome


Opening Segment - Good opener for Raw last night. Cena wasn't out there trying to be cute & happy-go-lucky for the audience. He initially hyped his match with The Rock before CM Punk's music hits. Punk & Cena had a nice exchange with believable rather than over the top intensity. Punk complained about being screwed again while Cena called him out on whining about it. Cena's proposition of challenging Punk for the WWE Championship match spot at WM might seem illogical, but it's not when you look at Cena's character. Cena's character is the ultimate confident babyface. I also dig the fact that Punk told Cena that they'd do it next week rather than tonight. The live crowd didn't like that but for a match like this, some build is really needed. I do like that Punk basically called Cena stupid for this idea because it does seem stupid for someone with nothing to gain, except principle, though that's enough for Cena. Thumbs Up

Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - An interesting backstage segment in which it looked like Sheamus & Ryback were about to get into it before Jericho intervenes. Jericho got into their faces about the way they were behaving and told them that The Shield is the enemy. Jericho did a nice job of portraying them as a threat simply by comparing them to the now. Jericho seemed really energetic, especially after he suggested that he go tell Vickie that the three of them wanted The Shield in a six man tag tonight. It had me wondering if Jericho was going to turn, as there've been rumors that Jericho might face Ryback at WM. Thumbs Up

1. Mark Henry vs. Sin Cara - Pretty basic squash match with Henry decimating Sin Cara in about 2 minutes or so. After the match, The Great Khali's music hits and he comes lumbering down the aisle. As he gets into the ring, Henry shuffles on out of the ring laughing & mocking Khali. I liked this because Henry showed complete disdain for Khali not only with mocking him, but by also walking with his attention turned away from him like Khali wasn't worth his time. Which, let's be honest, he isn't. Henry already decimated Khali, he's proven time & again he's not "afraid" of Khali, so sparing us the sight of watching Khali getting beaten down again is just fine with me. I just hope & pray that this isn't Henry's feud because it's an absolute waste if it is. NA

2. Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz in a NO DQ match - The match started out pretty well and was actually going better than I figured it would. Cesaro & Miz were both pretty physical and told a good story. Unfortunately, the match itself was much, much too short given the stipulation. It went only to about the 3.5 minute mark, not nearly enough time for a good no DQ match. A 3.5 no disqualification match is the kind of thing we used to see TNA do almost every week a few years back. Miz picks up the win via the Figure Four and WWE obviously wants to continue this feud. Personally, I wish they'd have had this match be a blow off to the feud with Cesaro picking up the win so he can move onto someone else. *1/2

Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter Video - WWE showed a video that was posted on youtube! featuring Coulter & Swagger. They were standing against a plain brown background with a yellowish flag featuring a coiled snake on it and the words "We The People" beneath it. I'm really enjoying Coulter in this role and he seems very comfortable in it. I don't know if some of this anti-immigration stance is something the has some genuine belief in as far as his real world personal beliefs go or not, but he does a great job. Again, he doesn't go over the line. It'll generate heat for certain, but WWE has to be careful here. Thumbs Up

Kane, Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - A fun little exchange between these three backstage. Bryan states that he has a match with Jack Swagger later on and that he doesn't quite trust Kane, so he wants him to stay in the back. Kane mentions something about Bryan being a snake and Orton pops up behind him. They have words with Kane saying he doesn't like snakes and that whenever one gets too close, he crushes its head with his boot. Orton replies that he would have found that intimidating once but now likens Kane to "Barney The Dinosaur" which I thought was kinda funny. As he left, Kane & Bryan has another slight exchange. Since Bryan has a match with Swagger, this was obviously a set up for Kane vs. Orton later on. Thumbs Up

3. Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler - Good match from Ziggler & Del Rio. The live crowd was into it and while it wasn't on the level of their match on Main Event last week, it was still an entertaining 10 minute match. The match has several believable near falls scattered throughout and I enjoy seeing the reverse superplex spot. It just looks cool, especially with Ziggler selling it. Del Rio also seems to come out to an okay response, but the fans always seem to pick up really nicely during his matches. Del Rio eventually gets the win via the Cross Armbar, forcing Ziggler to tap. Immediately, Big E. Langston comes in and takes Del Rio out. He talks some trash before nailing Del Rio with his finisher. The camera zooms in on Ziggler and his facial expression tells all the story needed. The fans are popping as Ziggler goes out and gets his briefcase. Just as he's about to hand it to the ref, Ricardo pops out of nowhere, grabs it and takes off in a dead heat with Big E. hot on his trail. Ricardo drops the case on the ramp and Ziggler rushes out to get it back. As he's getting back into the ring, Del Rio has recovered and catches him with the enziguri before he can get back into the ring & cash in. The match was fun and the aftermath was a great tease that I thought was really well done. The Lafayette crowd has to be a little bummed as they've had a couple of really huge teases during this show, only for them to be just teases. ***

4. Brodus Clay, Tensai & Naomi vs. Epico, Primo & Rosa Mendes - Standard squash with the babyfaces getting the win. Naomi has some impressive athleticism. Her springboard high cross body is the first time I can recall a female wrestler doing that, in WWE or TNA. NA

Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter State of the Union - This was along similar lines as to what they were talking about on the video. However, one big difference is that Coulter hyped the World Heavyweight Championship match. He also officially kicked things off with the feud between Swagger & Del Rio by mentioning Del Rio by name. While a little over the top, I like the aspect of Coulter comparing Swagger winning the title as a metaphorical means of "Real Americans" like Swagger taking back their country. They're doing their part, so we'll just have to see if Del Rio can do anything other than pander to the fans. Thumbs Up

5. Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger - A fun, competitive match even though you had to be about 99% certain that Swagger was going over. The match went longer than I expected and I'm glad for that. I was worried that they'd have Swagger decimate Bryan within a couple of minutes in order to make him look ultra dominant. I'm glad they didn't go that route, however, and realize that Bryan has shown himself to be much too valuable to be misused like that. Both wrestlers got in a good amount of offense and the live crowd was very much behind Bryan. Late in the match, Bryan manages to put Swagger in the Yes/No Lock but Swagger is too close to the ropes and is able to reach the bottom rope with his right leg. Afterward, Bryan goes for another dropkick in the corner but doesn't connect. He begins to sell his leg and Coulter could be heard saying "that knee's gone". Swagger then goes after the leg and eventually puts Bryan in the ankle lock, or the Patriot Lock as Swagger calls it. It would have been nice to see Bryan counter this move at least once, as he's a submission specialist after all. Bryan taps out, giving Swagger the win at the 9.5 minute mark. **3/4

Vickie Guerrero, Paul Heyman, Brad Maddox & Vince McMahon - I didn't really expect much from this segment and that's pretty much how it came off. I don't care that Maddox is now Vickie's assistant, neither did the live crowd for that matter. Vince popped up on the big screen and had a little go with Heyman before saying that he was going to return next week. He reminded Heyman that he said he'd do anything if Vince added the stipulation to the Punk vs. Rock match at Elimination Chamber. Vince said that he was coming back next week and that he & Heyman were going to fight. Vince just had hip replacement surgery so he's not going to be doing shit, he physically can't. This segment didn't do anything for me personally, the live crowd didn't care either, but I can guarantee that segment on next week's Raw will be among the most watched of the show. Thumbs Down

6. Chris Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield - This was the hottest match of the night and the crowd definitely came alive for all the star power out there. The match had another intense, physical feel to it like the other Shield matches we've seen. Again, all three members of The Shield continue to look impressive. They did a good job of hyping this match throughout the night and it came off like a big deal, as it was The Shield's first match on Raw. The babyfaces worked well together and got in a lot of offense as well. The WWE set this up well and told a story of build up similar to what they did in the six man tag at EC, only with Jericho being the one fans were rallying around wanting to see tagged in. Jericho eventually is tagged in and goes to town. He & Ambrose worked really well together and the action broke down soon after. Roman Reigns is brawling with Ryback on the outside and manages to slam him into the ring post while, I'm assuming, Rollins has taken Sheamus out or has, at least, managed to get away from him. In the ring, Ambrose is in the Walls of Jericho and I like the fact that they didn't have him tapping out even though the ref wasn't there. The match ends when Rollins springboards off the top rope and nails Jericho with a knee to the head. Ambrose rolls on top of Jericho and scores the win at the 13.5 minute mark. While not quite as good as their ppv matches, this was still an extremely fun match and gave The Shield another huge victory. In their three matches alone in WWE thus far, WWE has done more with The Shield than TNA has done in 8 months with Aces & Eights. ***1/2

Kofi Kingston, Damien Sandow & R-Truth - Coming back from commercial, Kofi is in the ring when Sandow's music hits. Sandow cuts another fun promo before he begins to viciously assault Kofi. He beats Kofi down and R-Truth's music hits. Truth comes out and makes the save, nailing Sandow with some of his signature moves before Sandow beats a retreat. Nothing really great here, just probably a standard set up to some sort of feud. Now that Truth & Kofi are allies again, maybe it's time that WWE put Team Rhodes Scholars back together. NA

7. Randy Orton vs. Kane - I enjoyed this match. Kane & Orton worked well together at WM 28 last year and I thought they put on another solid match here. It was a bit slow at times, but that's to be expected generally when you have two guys wrestling who have a more methodical style. I'm also glad it was a competitive match rather than a quick brush off, as I figured we'd got with Bryan vs. Swagger. The second half of the match is when things picked up to a faster pace and was much more back & forth. Late in the match, Orton goes for the hanging DDT but Kane counters, with Orton sort of getting hung up on the top rope. As Orton starts to pick himself up, Kane readies himself for the chokeslam. Daniel Bryan limps his way out to ringside. He doesn't say anything but Kane takes his attention away from Orton for a few seconds. As he does, Orton pops up and delivers the RKO for the win about the 10.5 minute mark. Bryan doesn't smile or anything outside, he looks genuinely disappointed in Kane's loss. Another little brick pulled out of the foundation of Team Hell No. **1/2

The Rock's Celebration - This was a solid ending to the show I thought. The Rock came out initially after the University of Lousiana at Lafayette marching band plays, which gets a nice pop. When WWE said that this was going to be a "WWE Championship Celebration" at the start of the show, I had my hopes up that they'd debut a new title and that's what happened. As The Rock entered the ring, you could see a small table with a red cloth covering it, so it was official then that there was another belt under there. The Rock did his thing for a bit before turning his attention to the title. He did put down the spinner belt but not in an over the top way. The Rock said he respects what the belt represented. He said that it was introduced 8 years ago and some thought it was cool at the time. He said that the WWE Championship shouldn't look like a toy and that it shouldn't spin. The Rock gives the spinner belt to a production crew member and told him to make sure it went into the WWE Hall of Fame. The Rock then unveiled the new championship. I wasn't wild about the Brahma Bull side plates but I guessed that they were changeable. That was confirmed as I saw a pic of what the belt will look like after The Rock drops it. Looking at how the belt will look, I like it. I think it's an improvement over the spinner belt. It's a simple design, but much classier than the spinner in my opinion. I do wish they'd have done something a little different with the black background in the center plate. I just think it needs some sort of color. As The Rock begins to talk about his match at WM, Cena's music hits and he comes out on the ramp. Before Cena can come down, Punk jumps him from behind & hits him with the old title. I guess he mugged the crew member. He holds the belt out and drops it unceremoniously onto the floor and points at the new title and says "I want that one". The show goes off with Punk & Rock staring at each other over a prone Cena. Thumbs Up

Final Thoughts - I thought Raw was a fun show last night. It wasn't the super hot show I think many were expecting, but I think that will happen next week. After all, there's still a month and a half until WM so there's still plenty of time. Next week's show looks loaded and we'll probably know whether or not The Undertaker will be at WM by next week. Raw is in Dallas next week and Taker lives near Houston. I thought the build to next week's show was well done, though last night's show was fun as well. The main promo segments did their jobs well, but the Heyman & Vickie segment didn't do anything for me. Wrestling action on the show was very solid with four strong matches overall. The six man tag was the match of the night and The Shield gets a big victory on their first match on WWE television. Bryan vs. Swagger was entertaining as well Ziggler vs. Del Rio. Kane vs. Orton was a solid match that did it's job in my opinion. Cesaro vs. Miz had the potential to be really good but it's hard to get behind 3.5 minute gimmick matches. The new WWE Championship is pretty decent all in all, in my opinion. It's not perfect but I prefer it to the spinner.

Grade: B
 
Fun show. It actually went by much faster than normal.

Punk and Cena are good together. I think agreeing to next week's match is fitting for Cena's character and shows Heyman and Punk to be very bright and cunning.

The action was decent. I don't despise Ziggler, he consistently puts out entertaining matches like last night but I'm tired of the overvalue people on the web give him.

Shield match was really entertaining as well. As singles all three guys look overwhelmingly overmatched but as a team they are terrific.

Surprised they're pushing Swagger, but not as much as how far they are pushing the Coulter character. This is a risky proposition for WWE but I have enjoyed it so far. Nice match put together by Swagger and Bryan.

Not sure how Brad Maddox went from being Bane to Waylon Smithers so quickly but while it wasn't the most entertaining segment it puts him in a spot where he has a chance to succeed. The only thing I want more than a Vickie/Heyman affair is a Vickie/Heyman/Maddox love triangle.

The last segment was entertaining. I don't care what the title prop looks like. They can wear a crown for all I care. Highlight of the night was The Rock telling the stagehand to go put the old belt in the "Hall of Fame". Rock did great with the crowd and having Cena come out and get decked was fitting.

Would have loved to have Lesnar and UT but it is kind of early and WWE still has to fully establish the main main main event. Good show, well written, well performed. I give it a G for 'Good'.
 
Underwelming, albeit decent I suppose.

Only guys who stood out was The Sheild, in what was a very strong match. The Cena thing was fucking stupid "heroic face logic" be damned....I dont care, it was fucking stupid.

Swagger and Zeb were awesome, of course. Suppose I should have enjoyed that while it lasted.

C+
 
They need to seriously give the raw rebounds a rest, its killing the show. Could easily fit a few promo segments or matches instead of seeing repeats on what we already saw on monday.
 
They need to seriously give the raw rebounds a rest, its killing the show. Could easily fit a few promo segments or matches instead of seeing repeats on what we already saw on monday.

Understandable why they do it though, there'd be a fair amount of people that miss out on it so gives them a view of what went down.
 
They need to seriously give the raw rebounds a rest, its killing the show. Could easily fit a few promo segments or matches instead of seeing repeats on what we already saw on monday.

Big time agree. Raw is bad enough the first eight times I watch it (since they show 40 minutes of recaps of shit that happened earlier on raw ON FUCKING RAW).....I really could do without entire segments dedicated to it on SD. You want to keep angles rolling? Have the guy from said angle come out and cut a promo. Not like the brand split matters anyway.

Anyways, same ol same ol for SD. Nothing special, nothing terribly offensive. Just sorta "there" though the development of Swagger continues, and is very good. Love how Coulter yells instructions like a wrestling coach.

IC champion continues to be the new era "jobber to the stars" and the awful Miz - Cesaro feud continues. No mark on Cesaro, because afterall, it involves The Miz.

D+
 
I thought the stand out match on this past Smackdown was Barrett vs Del Rio,it was a really good back and forth that give Barrett is best slice of TV time in ages. If Del Rio remains champion after Mania I think this could be a solid title program.
 
Fantastic Raw tonight. I figured I'd take a break from the Live Discussion and do a review this week.

The opening was one of the best in recent memory. True to form, Paul Heyman and Vince McMahon were excellent. Heyman's promo was typical Heyman gold. Vince, at his age and coming off of surgery, is a beast, plain and simple. Master storytellers both. Things only got better when Brock Lesnar and Triple H got involved. That brawl they had was so good that it damn near makes me want to recant my distaste for Trips/Lesnar II. Almost.

Ryback and Ziggler was a good choice to start things off. I like Ryback's style. Noboby's going to confuse him for a technical wizard, but he knows his way around the ring better than his physique or character would suggest.

CM Punk isn't God, but he is a god amongst wrestling talkers. Great promo as usual.

Donald Trump is a great choice for the celebrity wing of the Hall of Fame. Not who I would've chosen, but that's irrelevant. The WWE chose a guy who has contributed numerous times over the years and is relevant to the New York/New Jersey crowd. As "The Donald" would say, this Hall of Fame is gonna be huge. Well, he'd say it like "ewwege."

Khali vs. Henry was mercifully short. The Marine 3 shill didn't work. I don't want to buy it.

MizTV was tremendous. The storyline surrounding the World Heavyweight Championship is a breath of fresh air. Zeb Colter's attacks against Mexican immigrants were pointed and echo what a lot of Americans honestly feel. However, Del Rio came back at him with a passion I haven't seen from him before. Del Rio is becoming a better face every week.

Cesaro vs. Orton was too short. These guys have chemistry, but they are both methodical. They shouldn't face each other unless they're going to get sufficient time.

Team Hell No's backstage skit with Vickie and her assistant Brad Maddox was fun. I know a lot of people are tired of Team Hell No, but I'm not one of them.

The WrestleMania 21 promo was pointless.

Sheamus' Oscar Snubs sounded to me like it would be terrible, but the interaction between him and Wade Barrett ended up justifying this segment's existence.

R-Truth vs. Cody Rhodes was solid. Damien Sandow on commentary was a welcome addition.

Team Hell No vs. The Prime Time Players was what it was. Again, I'm fine with THN's antics, but I could understand if someone found this match and its stipulations to be too silly for their liking.

The Shield cut a great promo. Seth Rollins line that they solved the "John Cena problem" was well said. All three did a great job. The ending bit with Sheamus goading them and Orton ambushing Rollins was a good way to end it. The Shield should get got from time to time, lest they look too strong.

The Miz vs. Jack Swagger was a good match. I'm not a fan of The Miz as a babyface, but he's not as terrible as some (even myself at times) would suggest. He does a good job of taking beating and being in peril. I still think he should go back to being a heel, though.

The Sonic shill honestly had me thinking about The King's heart problems. I wish he'd retire, for his health and that of my ears.

John Cena did his John Cena thing backstage. Sometimes I tune out when he's cutting a promo. This was one of them. No disrespect to Cena's promo ability, but the content of his promos that loses me. As I've said in the past, I just think the guy is geared toward the kids, so I let him talk to them while I give my ears a break.

Cena vs. CM Punk was, as usual, a magnificent wrestling match. They always do such a great job going back-and-forth, countering each other, and really selling how good the other guy is. They could wrestle a thousand times, and I doubt I'd get bored of it. And I'm glad Cena won. I don't want a triple threat at WrestleMania. I just think that Rock/Cena II is a huge rematch and adding a third man (as great as Punk is) would water that down to a degree.

Overall, I thought this was a great edition of Raw. There were few lulls, the highs were sky high, and the lows weren't very low at all. I was engaged for all three hours. I missed the annoucement of Old School Raw due to a bathroom break, but I'm glad to hear they're doing it. I thought the last one was a lot of fun. If you missed this Raw, I'd highly reccommend you catch it. The Road to WrestleMania shows usually bring us the best that WWE has to offer. I think that, by and large, that was definitely the case tonight.
 
Not sure where to begin. Great great show all around.

Opening segment was fun. I'm not a huge HHH fan but it makes sense and should be a good brawl.

Swagger, coulter, Alberto, and Ricardo on Miz TV was a really good segment. You could feel the unease in the crowd and I'm sure some people secretly wanted to cheer coulter.

The main event was REALLY damn good. I wasn't sure what they'd do, but a Cena power bomb, a punk pile driver, a Cena hurricarana which wasn't bad at all for a guy his size (reminded me of how Samoa Joe does his). Fantastic match that told an amazing story of struggle and pulling out everything you had. I bought the count out falsie so good job there.
 
Cena vs Punk was phenomenal, that is the kind of match caliber I wish was headlining Mania, I think this years is an easy pass.

The Shield's promo was good and I liked the little sneak attack from Orton, it was a bit of a riff on the DDP/Outsiders segment back in the day where Page became the first guy to really get to them.

I thought the Sheamus/Barrett Oscars segment was surprisingly good, I'm not a fan of stand up comedian Sheamus but he did a good job here and Barrett was also good, shrugging off the insults with a classic smarmy heel promo. It made me wish that these guys were feuding for the WHC, it was much better than the sleep inducing crap on Miz TV with Del Rio and Swagger.

The opening segment was just something I personally could not give a shit about, Lesnar is fucking awesome but I can't stand Triple H and have no interest in seeing him do his lame "badass" shtick opposite a real beast, his odd neck rolls now exposed by his haircut were also gross.

Cesaro and Ziggler jobbed as usual, Ziggler of course made that huge walking anabolic fleshsack look good by pinball bumping ala HBK. Bryan and Kane's match with PTP was stupid and didn't do anything for anybody.

R Truth vs Cody was a match I barely watched but Sandow was gold on commentary, I'm not sure what the point was as I expected a Kofi run in when Sandow sneak attacked Truth, setting up Rhodes Scholars vs Kofi & Truth.

I'm glad Henry got the Khali match out of the way, I'm not sure where he goes from here though.

No Undertaker but they showed him on Tout, a fucking horrendous invention if ever there was one. I'm guessing Punk's "I'm God promo" is to set up his job for Mania, I don't really care either way.

Oh, Brickie are going to be amusing I think if they aren't overused, good old Vick, getting another cherub faced young guy over one screech at a time.
 
Cena vs Punk was phenomenal, that is the kind of match caliber I wish was headlining Mania, I think this years is an easy pass.

The Shield's promo was good and I liked the little sneak attack from Orton, it was a bit of a riff on the DDP/Outsiders segment back in the day where Page became the first guy to really get to them.

I thought the Sheamus/Barrett Oscars segment was surprisingly good, I'm not a fan of stand up comedian Sheamus but he did a good job here and Barrett was also good, shrugging off the insults with a classic smarmy heel promo. It made me wish that these guys were feuding for the WHC, it was much better than the sleep inducing crap on Miz TV with Del Rio and Swagger.

The opening segment was just something I personally could not give a shit about, Lesnar is fucking awesome but I can't stand Triple H and have no interest in seeing him do his lame "badass" shtick opposite a real beast, his odd neck rolls now exposed by his haircut were also gross.

Cesaro and Ziggler jobbed as usual, Ziggler of course made that huge walking anabolic fleshsack look good by pinball bumping ala HBK. Bryan and Kane's match with PTP was stupid and didn't do anything for anybody.

R Truth vs Cody was a match I barely watched but Sandow was gold on commentary, I'm not sure what the point was as I expected a Kofi run in when Sandow sneak attacked Truth, setting up Rhodes Scholars vs Kofi & Truth.

I'm glad Henry got the Khali match out of the way, I'm not sure where he goes from here though.

No Undertaker but they showed him on Tout, a fucking horrendous invention if ever there was one. I'm guessing Punk's "I'm God promo" is to set up his job for Mania, I don't really care either way.

Oh, Brickie are going to be amusing I think if they aren't overused, good old Vick, getting another cherub faced young guy over one screech at a time.
Negative nancy. HHH is over and e feud is over, that's the point. I wish punk/Cena was the main too, but pro wrestling is about appealing to your audience, which will be the rock/Cena 2 huge draw. The team hell no match accomplished entertainment for a lot of people and team hell no reconciling a bit.
 
Negative nancy. HHH is over and e feud is over, that's the point. I wish punk/Cena was the main too, but pro wrestling is about appealing to your audience, which will be the rock/Cena 2 huge draw. The team hell no match accomplished entertainment for a lot of people and team hell no reconciling a bit.

Not negative, just an opinion, I didn't realize we had to like something because it might be what someone else wants or because it is over. I was also positive on other aspects of the show which you ignored, I don't see why we need to think everything is good.
 
The Divas champion hasn't been on RAW in a month. This is getting ridiculous. The funny thing is, on RAW20 the Divas title match got the highest ratings. I guess they're being punished for outshining the men... once again.
 
I'm saving my review for John Cena.

I've never been a fan of his, I've been one of those guys who is bored of him etc...but last night man he proved to me why he's been at the top for a decade. Sure he went all superman on us but he and Punk wrestled that match incredibly. That will be remembered as one of the matches of the year for sure. Anyone worried what this will do for Punk though? After WM (presuming he faces Taker and loses) he would have lost twice to the Rock, once to Cena in a huge match and then Taker all in a row. Not great for the top full time guy in the business (behind Cena of course) Although I'm one of those who would like the streak to go simply because Taker is obviously so beaten up and imagine what it could for someone's career? Imagine Punk's promos after beating Taker at Mania!
 
WWE Raw
February 25, 2013
American Airlines Arena
Dallas, Texas


Vince McMahon & Paul Heyman Fight - A good deal of the opening segment turned out to be like I figured, but it was FAR hotter than I expected. Heyman's promo worked nicely and I was legitimately surprised that Vince took a couple of legit bumps during their confrontation. Once Lesnar's music hit, the place came unglued. Lesnar stalked Vince for a bit and then Triple H's music hit. I knew he & Lesnar would brawl, but it was far more physical than I anticipated. Brock Lesnar bled like a stuck pig and there's no doubt he'd have to have stitches. Trips ultimately got the best of the brawl and stood tall in the right. As I said, I figured this confrontation between Vince & Heyman would lead to kick start of Trips vs. Lesnar II, but the execution definitely exceeded my expectations. Thumbs Up

1. Ryback vs. Dolph Ziggler - All in all, an entertaining effort in which Ziggler went above & beyond to really make Ryback look like a beast. The outcome of the match was never really in doubt and Ziggler has lost a lot as of late, but it was still pretty entertaining. The red hot Dallas crowd helped out with that as well. I've said it before and I'll say it again: nobody in wrestling sells better than Dolph Ziggler. He made all of Ryback's offense look like he'd been hit by an 18 wheeler. I personally wished that they'd have had The Shield interfere so as to save Ziggler another pinfall loss, but WWE is obviously looking to build Ryback strong heading to WM. Ryback gets the win via Shellshocked a little past the 11 minute mark. **1/2

CM Punk - Another great performance from CM Punk on the microphone. Punk's promo did it's job all around of hyping his match with John Cena, hyping WrestleMania itself and generating great heat for himself. Even when Punk was saying that tonight wasn't about Cena, The Rock, WrestleMania or even the WWE Championship, he put all of that at the forefront. Punk calling himself God has no doubt generated some degree of controversy as well. Thumbs Up

WWE Hall of Fame - Last night, WWE announced that Donald Trump would be this year's "Celebrity Honoree" into the HOF. As usual, they put together a nice video package that showcased Trump. Am I excited about Trump being in the HOF? Not really. But, then again, this will only serve to serve to generate even more mainstream media coverage for WWE. Unlike most celebrity inductees, Donald Trump is someone that's still extremely relevant. I know people are going to gripe about Trump being in the HOF but I do think Trump's involvement with WWE is significantly greater than that of the vast majority of past celeb inductees. He hosted two WrestleManias, had a couple of significant Raw appearances and had a memorable part in a memorable WrestleMania angle several years back. Thumbs In The Middle

2. The Great Khali vs. Mark Henry - Short and painless, Praise the Lord. Henry continues to look like a beast. It was impressive seeing Henry walk around carrying a 7'2", 375 pound man like he was a sack of potatoes. Henry gets the win about the 2 minute mark via the World's Strongest Slam. NA

Miz TV - I enjoyed this segment as it ultimately did what it needed to do: start things off with Del Rio & Swagger in a good, solid way. Zeb Coulter continues to shine in his current role and he's helping to take Swagger to a level he's never been in his career. Again, Coulter said a few things that were a little uncomfortable, but he didn't go over the line. Del Rio showed good fire here and that's what needs to happen. Del Rio put over how America was built by immigrants and that how every citizen is descended from immigrants. Del Rio had the Dallas crowd firmly behind him while the crowd gave strong heat to Coulter & Swagger. While it's true that a lot of what Coulter is saying sounds a bit repetitive at times, you have to remember that WWE has to tread carefully here. There are some people already pissed off and offended by this angle, so WWE has to be careful not to take it too far, which means Coulter is going to have to keep this at a certain level. Thumbs Up

3. Antonio Cesaro vs. Randy Orton - A decent match all in all while it lasted, though the outcome did nothing for me. Cesaro is a strong worker inside the ring and consistently has good matches. I just wish that they wouldn't have simply fed him to Orton here. Cesaro goes for the flying Very European Uppercut from the middle rope only for Orton to turn it into an RKO for the win at the 4 minute mark. Can't say I'm wild about the use of Cesaro as being fodder for Orton when he's United States Champion. **

Sheamus & Wade Barrett - This was a massive waste of time. All it was really was a shameless plug of the Dead Man Down movie. The only reason WWE is even doing it is because Wade Barrett has a bit part in it. I've never even seen Barrett shown in the trailers of the movie. Nothing worth talking about here, just a definite low point of the show. Thumbs Down

4. R-Truth vs. Cody Rhodes - I don't really know what happened here, apart from Truth picking up a win. It was raining here last night and the satellite lost its signal for a bit. By the time it came back in, Truth had scored a win. NA

5. Team Hell No vs. The Prime Time Players - Lousy match that did nothing but fill up air time. Bryan was blind folded & Kane had one arm tied behind his back. Just poor use of both these teams and all it did was make the PTPs look weaker than ever with Kane scoring the win via a one armed chokeslam. NA

The Shield - Solid promo work from The Shield. All three members have shown good ability on the mic. Roman Reigns has shown himself to be much better than I anticipated. He's generally been the quiet one during all the various Shield video promos we've seen, but he's shown himself to be pretty good. Ambrose & Rollins both have that It factor. They put themselves over for a bit before calling anyone out. Sheamus' music hits and he comes out onto the ramp and challenges them to come up there and fight him. Ambrose & Reigns get out of the ring and start up towards him while Rollins stands by the ropes. Randy Orton slithers into the ring behind him, spins him around and delivers an RKO before getting out of Dodge. Ambrose & Reigns come back into the ring while Rollins does a good job of selling the RKO. Orton poses out among the crowd to end the segment. I'm guessing this means we're looking at another six man tag situation at WrestleMania with The Shield on one side and Sheamus, Orton & someone else on the other. Thumbs Up

6. The Miz vs. Jack Swagger - Good, competitive match from Swagger & Miz. The Miz, to me, looks better in the ring than he's looked in a long time. He's more aggressive and the crowd was very much behind him. He & Swagger delivered a good, physical match in which both looked strong. The beginning of the end comes when Miz goes for his modified DDT. Swagger pushes him off and Miz falls through the ropes only for his left leg to get caught between the ropes. Swagger attacks for a bit and I thought he was about to get disqualified but relents in time. The ref helps Miz out of the ropes only for Miz to be chop blocked by Swagger. Swagger than puts Miz in the Patriot Lock, forcing Miz to tap & giving Swagger the clean win at the 7.5 minute mark. Good win for Swagger and I'm glad they didn't go for the DQ win here to protect Miz or have Coulter interfere. **3/4

7. John Cena vs. CM Punk - Phenomenal match. Just plain phenomenal. This is a legit match of the year contender and will probably be the strongest match shown free television of any wrestling company this year. The only thing that kept this from being a five star match, in my opinion, were the commercial breaks. The match legitimately had that big match feel, it had drama, it had suspense, it had great action and it had a crowd that was white hot for it from bell to bell. This was the match I was expecting from Cena & Punk on Raw 1,000 back in June and it felt like a genuine, and successful, sequel to their classic match at the Money in the Bank ppv back in 2011. Cena & Punk both looked like true main event level stars and worked their asses off here. Both men looked determined and resilient as they took everything the other had to give. Cena put Punk in the STF a couple of times, only for Punk to escape. Punk would put Cena in the Anaconda Vice a couple of times, only for Cena to counter or escape. Punk nails Cena with the GTS at one point and Cena nails Punk with the AA only for both to escape. The end comes with Cena coming out of nowhere and pulling a hurricanrana on Punk. The move left Punk disoriented and Cena scooped Punk up and delivered another AA, this time getting the win at the 28 minute mark. Cena finally gets his big win over Punk and is now officially set to go against The Rock at WrestleMania. ****3/4

Final Thoughts - A strong show last night that genuinely kicked off WrestleMania season. The low points of the show for me were the Sheamus & Wade Barrett Segment and Team Hell No vs. the PTPs with Bryan blindfolded & Kane having one arm tied behind his back. The opening segment of Vince & Heyman, and later Brock Lesnar & Triple H, was a great, hot way to start off the show to kick off Trips vs. Lesnar II, which I'm willing to bet will be some sort of no DQ match given that Lesnar was ripped open last night. CM Punk, Miz TV & The Shield all had strong promo segments that all did their job of Punk building his match with Cena & hyping WM, kicking off Del Rio vs. Swagger in a solid way and starting towards The Shield possibly getting another six man match, this time at WrestleMania. I could have done without Cesaro jobbing out to Orton but it was a decent outing while it lasted. Donald Trump going into the HOF doesn't bother me, but it doesn't thrill me either. The Miz vs. Jack Swagger was a strong, pretty competitive match that had a lot of good action. As I hoped, Cena vs. Punk stole the show in about as perfect of a match as you'll ever see on television. As I said earlier, this match will be a legit match of the year contender and I'm already predicting will be the best match on wrestling television in 2013. The Undertaker didn't show up on Raw last night but given everything that happened, I'm not surprised. There's a month & a half left to WM and WWE is spreading out the big moments throughout the build, just like they should. They're not going to blow their wad all in one or two shows. Since next week is going to be Old School Raw, it seems like a perfect setting for an "old school" guy like Taker to show up.

Grade: A-
 
The Divas champion hasn't been on RAW in a month. This is getting ridiculous. The funny thing is, on RAW20 the Divas title match got the highest ratings. I guess they're being punished for outshining the men... once again.

You know why the Divas Champion hasn't been on Raw? Because, all in all, nobody gives a shit about the Diva Division. Vince McMahon doesn't give a shit about the Diva Division, so there's no reason for anyone else to.

This is WrestleMania season and, frankly, there's no need for WWE to waste any time on the Divas when the Divas aren't a relevant aspect of WWE. Given a choice, I'd much rather see WWE focus attention on matches that are actually going to make them money for WrestleMania. You know, little matches like Triple H vs. Lesnar, Cena vs. Rock, possibly Taker vs. Punk, Del Rio vs. Swagger, etc. And what's this bullshit about being punished for "outshining the men". TNA is where the women's segments & matches almost always outdraw the men. The VAST majority of the time, the Diva segments are among the lowest rated segments on Raw. So please, don't try to make it sound like the Divas are a relevant part of WWE or that they're a bigger draw than the male wrestlers are. You'll only embarrass yourself.
 
Enjoyed Raw very much this week. HHH and Lesner showed the intensity need to make this match work a second time. You have to say one thing about Lesner, each feud he has been in had that real feel to it. I am not one that thinks we need to see blood all the time, but boy it sure does help in spots intentional or not. I am looking forward to this match after the Raw. I am not liking what is happening with the tag division lately, and I really hope after Mania they pick up that division again. Ziggler continuing to lose only makes me hope he finally cashes in at Mania. The main event was great, and these are the times I appreciate Cena. Say what you will, but he puts on a hell of a match when called upon to do so. Punk is fantastic as usual, and I think this was their best match so far. Cena finally gets the big win heading into Mania. I think the stage is set for Punk to come out ranting next week about not having a Mania match now, and for Taker to come out and start their feud. One of the better Raws this year in my opinion, and shows why Mania season is the best time to be a fan.
 
Solid show highlighted by the opening with Lesnar and Trips and the main event between Cena and Punk. Between Punk's promo, losing to Cena, Taker returning over the weekend and Trips/Lesnar all but set in stone, its looking like Punk will face Taker at Mania after all. We still have 5 shows left before Mania so there is enough time to build Punk/Taker. I just hope they start at the next Raw and take advantage of all the remaining 5 shows left. Especially since Jericho and Rock will be missing a few shows in the beginning of March.
 
Fantastic bookends to an alright show. But I don't think we can ask for much more. Glad to see WWE avoided the Beck parody. Was disappointed in no Taker showing until I witnessed the final match and didn't need any more stimulation. I was disappointed that we are clearly getting Lesnar/HHH II until I saw the two of them rip each other apart. I think the blood was fake and therefore obviously intentional. The wound seemed to heal too quickly. But regardless it was a great brawl and like everything Lesnar has done feels so uncomfortably legitimate. I know I'm not Del Rio's target audience (I'm closer to paste than Hispanic) but his promos are working for me. Politicians need to recruit this guy to campaign to Hispanic voters for them. Nothing else really stands out but I'm happy to have watched the show, I'll remember the first and last segments for a long time.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,846
Messages
3,300,837
Members
21,727
Latest member
alvarosamaniego
Back
Top