[Official] QB Thread

[Lil Wes]

whats your logic about that posrt ^? You have been owned. Sorry

Lol.

Thats why this thread is best QB under 30 years old?

Only because you changed the subject, Originally the subject was.

Who in the last 2 years has been the better QB? Tony or Ben?

You were proved wrong countless times, so therefore you changed the thread

isnt that the title. I will argue for months because Ben is the better QB. Top 3 for that matter.

Top 3?!?!?! 3?!?!?!

1) Tom Brady.

2) Peyton Manning

3) Brett Favre.

Winning wise what has Favre done in ten years? Nothing.

I don't know. I don't want to add up, but he's been in the SB twice, and has plenty enough wins to make it in the HOF on the first ballad.

Shut up about Favre, It's ignorant to even compare Ben to possibly the greatest ever..

Christ had nothing to do with me misinterpreting some text.

Well according the the churches, preachers and all of that, Christ created everything, That means he gave you eyes.

Use them...

That argument was Carson under the Steelers team, his ability doesnt mean they would win.

No, because Pittsburgh has a shit offensive cooridinator, whoever he is.

He is too immobile and wiuld get put on his rear because the o-line is bad well horrendous.

Carson would beat the blitz with his arm most of the times, look at him in Cincy around 2 years ago and last year, his line has never been special. He's just a good passer.

But Marino is still a loser. No SB's does not make him the best QB ever.

He still played excellent every week despite having a shitty team, Sorry Marino was a damn good QB, I won't say the best but he's right up there.

Carson has more overall QB ability than most of the QB's right now, It's just his team is pitiful.

His numbers outshine Ben because GB has no running game and Favre is still showing signs of going back to old. He is just in it for the records.

Going back to old??

Jesus fucking Christ he's the best QB in the NFC!!! Is it really that hard to understand that Brett Favre is possibly the greatest ever, Have you even watched him play? In it for records? His fucking wife had cancer and yet he still didn't call it quits, he wants to win. Listen to his postgame conferences, records don't have shit to do with Favre, Hell he's broken all he is going to break and I guarentee you he'll be back again next year leading Green Bay every single step of the way, at Age 38.

And will remain the best in the NFC. He has no running game and his offense still is racking up loads of points this year, Who is it all coming from?

Favre and his arm.

But he is still a loser. Elway was a better QB and is a proven winner. I would take Montana over them all because of his success in winning numbers and all the worthless stats.

See Xfear's post, He took all I can say.

Stats still mean nothing. He was a loser, thats what i stated. If they did not win there SB's right now both would be criticized like Marino was.

Xfear already put this to shame...

What is this still about Grossman? He is a loser, he lost the big game. Didnt he? Yes.

Going by your logic, he is a "proven winner" he won a BIG game when they beat the Saints in the NFC title game.

Wins and losses determine success. Especially regular season. Common sense, I know.

And how do you get wins or losses?

Points and what do you have to do to get points?

Stats.

Jon Kitna has out perfomed Roethlisberger the last year and a half, doesnt mean he is better. Same thing with Garrard or Palmer.

You just killed you cred in our original argument in other threads.

So you saying Palmer, Garrard and Kitna have outpreformed Ben?

Tony has outpreformed all 3 of them. Soooo, The past 2 seasons Romo has been the better QB. Sorry.

Aikman was a winner.

Marino was an overall better QB.

Again, I prove to you there is no biased here.

I have been right i know.

Lolz.

Your Sports Knowledge?

Says the guy who compared Ben CheeseBurger to Dan Marino and Brett Favre.

Since when do stats win football games? points win football games.

To get points, You usually have very good stats on all 3 sides.

Offense, Defense and Special Teams.

What about Wes he continues to support Romo, he is a Cowboys fan.

1) Tom Brady.

2) Peyton Manning

3) Brett Favre.

Marino was an overall better QB.

 

[BooCocky]

Lol.

I know you are quite funny.

Only because you changed the subject, Originally the subject was.

Who in the last 2 years has been the better QB? Tony or Ben?

Actually it was career, i should know i started the argument.

You were proved wrong countless times, so therefore you changed the thread

Since when? You have not once proved me wrong. You have not been able to change a thought in my mind.

Top 3?!?!?! 3?!?!?!

1) Tom Brady.

2) Peyton Manning

3) Brett Favre.

Yes top three he is far behind Brady or Manning but you can most definitely put Ben in front of Favre since Ben's debut. Top three now not ever. Very easy argument.

I don't know. I don't want to add up, but he's been in the SB twice, and has plenty enough wins to make it in the HOF on the first ballad.

I never said he wasnt a first ballad hall of Famer but what has in done in the shape of winning? Nothing.

Shut up about Favre, It's ignorant to even compare Ben to possibly the greatest ever..

Compare the last 3 and a half years and you have a comparison or there first 3 and a half years you have a comparison. Yeah i know, it is hard to believe.

Well according the the churches, preachers and all of that, Christ created everything, That means he gave you eyes.

Use them...

I do have good eyes, perfect vision, i think you are the one who doesnt use them properly. I wouldn't know about the christ thing though because my beliefs are small when it comes to that topic but there is a thread on that.

No, because Pittsburgh has a shit offensive cooridinator, whoever he is.

How do you know he is shit if you dont know his name? Bruce Arians is a good coordiantor and he brings a different method to piitsburgh ball, he opens up the field and spreads the ball around.

Carson would beat the blitz with his arm most of the times, look at him in Cincy around 2 years ago and last year, his line has never been special. He's just a good passer.

His line consist of a couple pro bowlers and they meshed together quite well.

He still played excellent every week despite having a shitty team, Sorry Marino was a damn good QB, I won't say the best but he's right up there.

Carson has more overall QB ability than most of the QB's right now, It's just his team is pitiful.

Palmer is just like Marino, a choker in a big game. Palmers offense is good. Manning was able to Carry his team to the playoffs despite a horrendous defense. Something Palmer can not do.

Jesus fucking Christ he's the best QB in the NFC!!! Is it really that hard to understand that Brett Favre is possibly the greatest ever, Have you even watched him play? In it for records? His fucking wife had cancer and yet he still didn't call it quits, he wants to win. Listen to his postgame conferences, records don't have shit to do with Favre, Hell he's broken all he is going to break and I guarentee you he'll be back again next year leading Green Bay every single step of the way, at Age 38.

then when Playoff time hits he will play like crap because everything becomes one dimensional and he will go back to his old ways. Let him come back it doesnt mean they will win.

And will remain the best in the NFC. He has no running game and his offense still is racking up loads of points this year, Who is it all coming from?

Favre and his arm.

Let it be, i cant prevent him from throwing the football but him coming back isnt instant success. He is a good qb but isnt great right now.

See Xfear's post, He took all I can say.

See my post replying to that ELway 2 rings, Marino 0. take your pick 2 or 0?

Xfear already put this to shame...

How he never once proved anything, his 9 out of 10 times thing is irrelevant. False information. Ben averages 217 yds a game and is still winning. Palmer is averaging nearly 287 yds per game and is still losing.

Going by your logic, he is a "proven winner" he won a BIG game when they beat the Saints in the NFC title game.

He played like crap in the SB and lost, therefore he is a loser.

And how do you get wins or losses?

Points and what do you have to do to get points?

Stats.

Ben 217 yds passing per game, Palmer 287 passing yds per game. Ben has less but manages to win Vince Young doesnt put up great numbers but they manage to win. Campbell doesnt average 200 yds passing but the Redskns habe 4 wins. Stats mean nothing.

You just killed you cred in our original argument in another threads.

So you saying Palmer, Garrard and Kitna have outpreformed Ben?

Tony has outpreformed all 3 of them. Soooo, The past 2 seasons Romo has been the better QB. Sorry.

What does ben have that they dont got? the Ring. Sorry, Ben is Better and Younger and still has room to blossom. Sorry next please

Marino was an overall better QB.

Aikman stil won SB's therefore he is bigger winner.

Again, I prove to you there is no biased here.

Me neither i gave Aikman credit and i despise him.

Lolz.

LOL

Says the guy who compared Ben CheeseBurger to Dan Marino and Brett Favre.

Ben has something Marino doesnt. Compare first 3 and a half yrs and you have a comparison. Compare Favres last 3 and a half to Ben's and you have a comparison. Compare Favres first 3 and a half to Ben's 3 and a half and you have a debate. than you very much.

To get points, You usually have very good stats on all 3 sides.

Offense, Defense and Special Teams.

Manning had no defense and carried his team to playoffs after playoffs.

 

[X]

I'm sorry but you just ruined any credibility or respect you might have had with your statements on Brett Favre.

You're seriously saying that Ben is better then Favre right now? No. Just no. To even think that is not only ridiculious, but actually quite hilarious. Ask every single football fan on the face of the planet, and every single coach who would they rather have: Ben or Favre, and every single one would say Favre.

You keep saying Favre's a loser and hasn't done anything....and yet if I remember correctly he led the Packers to 2 Super Bowls in the last 11-12 years. Thats more then Ben isn't it? So by your asinine logic, Favre is the better QB isn't he?

Then you insult the man saying he's only in it for the stats...when if you knew absolutely anything about Favre it would be that stats are the last thing he ever worries about. Favre is about as classy of a guy as you could be, and as was mentioned before, he kept playing football despite his freaking wife dying of cancer! Yeah theres a real selfish guy just looking out for himself.

You continue to prove absolutely nothing and just make yourself look even more ridiculious with every post Brian. Just face it: Ben is not better then Romo. And he's not better then Favre. Or Palmer for that matter. Or even Jon Kitna for that matter. Or Drew Brees. Or Phillip Rivers. Do I really need to continue here?

As for this threads actual TOPIC, the nod goes to Palmer from me.

But it really should be Tom Brady, considering he only turned 30 about 2 monthes ago.

Brady = Best QB in NFL. Hands down. Easily.

 

[BooCocky]

I'm sorry but you just ruined any credibility or respect you might have had with your statements on Brett Favre.

How comparing first 3 and a half years is a comparison, also comparing Ben's first 3 and a half to Favres last 3 and a half and you have a comparison. Look at winning percentages and so forth.

You're seriously saying that Ben is better then Favre right now? No. Just no. To even think that is not only ridiculious, but actually quite hilarious. Ask every single football fan on the face of the planet, and every single coach who would they rather have: Ben or Favre, and every single one would say Favre.

What has Favre done in the last three and a half years? Nothing. Exactly. Ben is younger and has time to develop, not every coach would take Favre, basically because of his age, what 37-38 or a 25 yrs old with an SB ring? Most coaches want to win for years just not suddenly. I think Ben would be favored by some.

You keep saying Favre's a loser and hasn't done anything....and yet if I remember correctly he led the Packers to 2 Super Bowls in the last 11-12 years. Thats more then Ben isn't it? So by your asinine logic, Favre is the better QB isn't he?

I have clearly stated 10 years. He has not won nothing in ten years.

Then you insult the man saying he's only in it for the stats...when if you knew absolutely anything about Favre it would be that stats are the last thing he ever worries about. Favre is about as classy of a guy as you could be, and as was mentioned before, he kept playing football despite his freaking wife dying of cancer! Yeah theres a real selfish guy just looking out for himself.

Well if he cared about his wife, wouldnt he be at home trying to support her? he has enough money that he doesnt need football now. If he care'd about his wife, he would have quit playing football but know he just plays for stats and himself and doesnt care about the future of Packer football.

You continue to prove absolutely nothing and just make yourself look even more ridiculious with every post Brian. Just face it: Ben is not better then Romo. And he's not better then Favre. Or Palmer for that matter. Or even Jon Kitna for that matter. Or Drew Brees. Or Phillip Rivers. Do I really need to continue here?

How football is about winning percentage. You dont make the playoffs if you dont win, and he has a higher winning percentage than all of them except Rivers. They are all losers in the last years, so you have proved absolutely nothing. thank you very much.

As for this threads actual TOPIC, the nod goes to Palmer from me.

What has he ever done though the man has a 56 percent winning percentage. thats right above 50 percent.

But it really should be Tom Brady, considering he only turned 30 about 2 monthes ago.

there wouldnt be an argument because i know is the best qb in the NFL, i have stated this already. Apparently you didnt criticize my math with all the winning percentages.

Brady = Best QB in NFL. Hands down.Easily.

See above post^ except for the winning percentages, no one can touch Brady, he has done everything with basically no weapons until now and he still managed to tear up the NFL.

 

[X]

You really just don't know anything about Brett Favre.

He did not decide to keep playing for stats and money. He has plenty of both. When asked about how he felt after breaking the all time TD record, he simply said "It doesn't mean a thing if we don't win.". Yeah theres a guy who really is in it for the stats.

Brett Favre is a class act, and you can criticize him as a player, but don't ever criticize him as a man. He kept playing football because thats what he lives for and what he loves, and because if he didn't come back he would have completely SCREWED the Packers this year. It's not his decision about whether or not the Packers want to develop some young QB.

Why would I take Carson Palmer over Ben though you ask? Potential. Palmer has a lot more potential then Ben does IMO.

Honestly I think we should all just stop this argument right now, because it's obvious that you aren't going to give up, Wes isn't going to give up, and I'm not going to give up, and things are just going to end up getting hostile and bad things will only happen from then on.

So lets just agree to disagree before this whole thing gets out of hand.

 

[Lil Wes]

Pardon me while I rip you to shreds....

I know you are quite funny.

Oh.

Actually it was career, i should know i started the argument.

Bullshit.

It was...

Who in the last 2 years has been the better QB? Tony or Ben?

Since when?

The first day you tried to argue with me..

You have not once proved me wrong.

Not once, Not twice but.....





Millions of times...

Yes top three he is far behind Brady or Manning but you can most definitely put Ben in front of Favre since Ben's debut.

We are still talking to past 2 seasons, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!

Favre blows Ben away in overall ability, Even since his debut. See posts on Palmer, Favre is the same way.

Top three now not ever. Very easy argument.

WTF? Your the one who said Ben was in the Top 3 in the NFL...

I never said he wasnt a first ballad hall of Famer but what has in done in the shape of winning? Nothing.

Where the fuck did you ever get the idea Brett doesn't win? Do you even know half the shit you post is a croc of shit?

152-91

The Most career regular season wins by a starting quarterback:

Point made. Sorry.

I do have good eyes, perfect vision, i think you are the one who doesnt use them properly.

I'm debating with you on a message board......

How do you know he is shit if you dont know his name?

Look at Pitt's offensive stats and performance the past 2 years.

Shit.

Bruce Arians is a good coordiantor and he brings a different method to piitsburgh ball, he opens up the field and spreads the ball around.

Jason Garrett blows him to hell, and he is in his first year as OC

Palmer is just like Marino, a choker in a big game.

Palmer is just like Marino, Both have alot of ability at the QB position.

Manning was able to Carry his team to the playoffs despite a horrendous defense. Something Palmer can not do.

Manning's Defense in the playoffs was the number 1 overall, Sure not in the regular season but the postseason when Jackson returned that D was unstoppable.

then when Playoff time hits he will play like crap because everything becomes one dimensional and he will go back to his old ways.

Are you physic?

Let's have a look at his playoff numbers...

Games 20 Wins 11 Completions 401 Attempts 663 Completion % 60.5 Passing Yardage4,902

Looks very good to me.. I'd take that over Cheese's 9-21 horrendous performance against Seattle anyday.

Let him come back it doesnt mean they will win.

They are winning now and will only build more, with Favre back under center it gives the MORE of a chance.

He is a good qb but isnt great right now.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha..

nfl.com/stats

^^

See my post replying to that ELway 2 rings, Marino 0. take your pick 2 or 0?

For my own team? 0.

Marino was the better overall QB. Surrounding him around with good talent, would only make him better.

Ben averages 217 yds a game and is still winning. Palmer is averaging nearly 287 yds per game and is still losing.

And Tony is averaging more than all of them...

He played like crap in the SB and lost, therefore he is a loser.

He played loads better than Ben then because winning means more than stats to you. Hell his fucking stats in the SB were better than Ben's and he didn't have the shit refs Ben had on his side either.

Rex Grossman>Ben Cheese.

Stats mean nothing.

See mine and Xfear's posts. You were proved wrong not once, but twice.

What does ben have that they dont got?

A Motorcycle helmet????


Oh, Wait. Never mind.

the Ring.

Did you see that game? The refs? Ben's terrible playing? One of the worst Super Bowls ever?

Sorry, Ben is Better and Younger and still has room to blossom. Sorry next please

You've already been proved wrong on this...

Need I say more.

Aikman stil won SB's therefore he is bigger winner.

Marino is the better overall player. You cannot deny that. Nobody can.

Win's mean shit when building a team, It's the talent that means everything.

Me neither i gave Aikman credit and i despise him.

You said Ben Worthlessburger is a Top 3 QB in the NFL.

Nobody would say that unless they are biased.

LOL

Ben has something Marino doesnt. Compare first 3 and a half yrs and you have a comparison. Compare Favres last 3 and a half to Ben's and you have a comparison. Compare Favres first 3 and a half to Ben's 3 and a half and you have a debate. than you very much.

You cannot compare Ben's overall ability to Dan or Brett.

Thank you very much.

Manning had no defense and carried his team to playoffs after playoffs.

He carried his team with his arm..Which does what? Puts up stats .

The defense as I said was outstanding in last year's playoffs.

 

[BooCocky]

You really just don't know anything about Brett Favre.

I know a lot about Bret Favre as a player and honestly i can care less what he does outside of football because it doesnt concern me what so ever.

He did not decide to keep playing for stats and money. He has plenty of both. When asked about how he felt after breaking the all time TD record, he simply said "It doesn't mean a thing if we don't win.". Yeah theres a guy who really is in it for the stats.

He was also the same guy that threw a little fit when he couldnt get Moss and he was also the same QB that threw a fit when they decided to draft Aaron Rodgers, if Favre cared that much about his team he would have been a class act and took Rodgers with his arms wide open.

Brett Favre is a class act, and you can criticize him as a player, but don't ever criticize him as a man. He kept playing football because thats what he lives for and what he loves, and because if he didn't come back he would have completely SCREWED the Packers this year. It's not his decision about whether or not the Packers want to develop some young QB.

How do you know what Aaron Rodgers could do? He was never given a shot because the Almighty Favre wont allow it. I can criticize him as a player but i wont criticize him as a human being because i dont know what he does for GB or Wisconsin for that matters.

Why would I take Carson Palmer over Ben though you ask? Potential. Palmer has a lot more potential then Ben does IMO.

You seem knowledgeable in football, but what has he ever done that was so impressive? his winning percentage is pathetic. He has also continuously choked in big games.

Honestly I think we should all just stop this argument right now, because it's obvious that you aren't going to give up, Wes isn't going to give up, and I'm not going to give up, and things are just going to end up getting hostile and bad things will only happen from then on.

But honestly stopping wont solve anything. We all are probably old enough not to go maniacally insane on someone oyu will proabably never ever see once in your life. This is a debate and i thought this is what we were doing.

So lets just agree to disagree before this whole thing gets out of hand.

No apparently i am biased and only see my way. I just never thought this was that dreadful comparing seasons to now. That imo is logical, and could be proven.

 

[BooCocky]

Pardon me while I rip you to shreds....

Lets see this might take a lot more work than what you are proving.

Bullshit.

It was...

Who in the last 2 years has been the better QB? Tony or Ben?

No it was who was clearly the better QB, i started this debate going Ben>Romo...Fact. So dont tell me whats a lie.

The first day you tried to argue with me..

So winning means nothing to the fans of Dallas? I have obviously stated that Ben has a higher winning percentage than all of them except Rivers. Since you have discussed you havent proved nothing but your opinions.

Not once, Not twice but.....





Millions of times...

The prove me again because opinions prove nothing, cold hard facts do like i listed in post number ten or the original starter topic of this thread.

We are still talking to past 2 seasons, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!

No i should know i started this argument about the better QB. therefore with the cold hard facts in which i have proven throughout this 20 some odd post it appears to me that you know nothing besides cowboys football.

Favre blows Ben away in overall ability, Even since his debut. See posts on Palmer, Favre is the same way.

Palmer has done nothing. I have clearly stated that Favre has done nothing in ten years. Ben is still a winner, prove that wrong, you cant win percentage.

WTF? Your the one who said Ben was in the Top 3 in the NFL...

Ever since his debut he has been a star and easily suits him as a number 3 or 4 QB. Cold hard facts once again.

Where the fuck did you ever get the idea Brett doesn't win? Do you even know half the shit you post is a croc of shit?

I never said favre doesnt win. But what has he won in ten years? Zip.

The Most career regular season wins by a starting quarterback:

Point made. Sorry.

Has he won anything in ten years? No he has not. Thats what the Favre argument is all about.

Look at Pitt's offensive stats and performance the past 2 years.

Shit.

They'd be worse with out Ben. He is a winner. Once again prove that wrong? Wait i forgot you cant.

Jason Garrett blows him to hell, and he is in his first year as OC

Did i say he was a bad coordinator? No i did not. I just said Arians bringss a new dimension to PGH Steeler football.

Palmer is just like Marino, Both have alot of ability at the QB position.

But yet, they have never won the big game.

Manning's Defense in the playoffs was the number 1 overall, Sure not in the regular season but the postseason when Jackson returned that D was unstoppable.

Yes but before there defense stepped up, i was talking years, Manning was able to carry the Colts to the Playoffs for years while there defense was bad, Carson has been able to do it once.

Are you physic?

Define that in a term in which makes more sense? Physics? Yes i took a physics class in high school, and i did fairly well thank you.

Let's have a look at his playoff numbers...

Games 20 Wins 11 Completions 401 Attempts 663 Completion % 60.5 Passing Yardage4,902

Looks very good to me.. I'd take that over Cheese's 9-21 horrendous performance against Seattle anyday.

But see Ben still won. Winning the SB put the icing on there season, if they didnt win that season would have meant nothing. It doesnt matter how he played aslong as they won.

They are winning now and will only build more, with Favre back under center it gives the MORE of a chance.

When he retires what direction do they head in? They will go to the bottom because Aaron Rodgers has no experience. Then its back to rebuilding, as when Ben stepped in he made an immediate impact.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha..

nfl.com/stats

Once again stats prove nothing, see my Campbell and Ben's post on yds per game.

Marino was the better overall QB. Surrounding him around with good talent, would only make him better.

There is no way to prove that, thats why an Aikman, Montana,Elway would be a better choice because they have that certain thing that Marino doesnt.

And Tony is averaging more than all of them...

Once again that proves nothing because PGH is winning, WAshington is winning, so is the Titans, once again stats and passing yds mean nothing.

He played loads better than Ben then because winning means more than stats to you. Hell his fucking stats in the SB were better than Ben's and he didn't have the shit refs Ben had on his side either.

Ok, it doesnt matter, its like saying if a call didnt go there way the game would be different, once again you can not prove your theory on that.

Rex Grossman>Ben Cheese.

Where is Grossman now? Warming up the bench for Griese when the defense takes over.

See mine and Xfear's posts. You were proved wrong not once, but twice.

See my posts about Young Campbell and ben once again the both were proven wrong, they manage to win w/o having 250 yds average per game. thats quite impressive.

A Motorcycle helmet????

Atleast ben didnt fumble a go ahead snap in the playoffs. Romo did, sorry.

Did you see that game? The refs? Ben's terrible playing? One of the worst Super Bowls ever?

Yet they managed to win. I dont know i think when the Bronco's got blown out was a worse SB, that game wasnt close.

You've already been proved wrong on this...

Sorry stats mean nothing when you are winning football games, Ben has proven this. How was i wrong? Ben has room to grow he is only 25 and is just getting comfortable in Arians offense because Ken ran a different one last year. Ben had kens o for 3 years.

Need I say more.

Yes you still havent proved anything. Try Harder

Marino is the better overall player. You cannot deny that. Nobody can.

Win's mean shit when building a team, It's the talent that means everything.

Ben didnt have a talented team when he took over, either did Young and Campbell but yet they still have some success.

You said Ben Worthlessburger is a Top 3 QB in the NFL.

Nobody would say that unless they are biased.

No the average football fans look past presence on he field, Ben means everything to his team, winning percentages once again prove success. He is a top 3-4 in terms of success. You still havent listed anyone better, and quite frankly it is impossible, the sole purpose to play football is too win and Ben has done that in his career.

You cannot compare Ben's overall ability to Dan or Brett.

Thank you very much.



He carried his team with his arm..Which does what? Puts up stats .

You can compare success of Favre and Marino to Ben, look closely once again, Compare Marinos first 4 years to Ben's there is a comparison in terms of winning. Compare Favre last 4 years or first four years to ben's first four years and once again you have a comparison.

The defense as I said was outstanding in last year's playoffs.

Never said they weren't but they wouldnt have gotten to the playoffs without him. There Defense played like crap in the reg season, the stepped up when they needed to. Palmer has only carried Cinci to the Playoffs once where Manning did several times with a bad defense, look beyond last year.

 

[Lil Wes]

Your repeating the same shit you have been proved wrong on muliple times. I'm done with this thread, If you honestly think you can sit there and compare Ben whatever to Brett Favre, Dan Marino and others. That's enough for me to just say, I'm done. Hell this arguement wasn't even about careers it was who was better the past 2 season, You have been proved wrong on that matter time after time. Romo is now the better QB, Ben had his time to shine, It's gone. The Ravens will manage to win the divison and eventually someone will kick them out of the playoffs..If they even make it, Which I still think is doubtful

Right now on overall ability Tony Romo is better than Ben, The future looks loads brighter for Romo than Roothiswhatever. Pitt's front office cannot build a team worth pissing on, Jerry Jones can and has. Romo is surrounded by great talent, He's a great player, Mobile, Agile, Not injury prone, Hell of an arm, and a winner.

I'm done. Nobody else gives a shit about the debate anymore but you Brain, Soo, Sam or RVDgurl may as well close it.

 

[BooCocky]

Your repeating the same shit you have been proved wrong on muliple times.

I was never once proved wrong you gave opinions where i stated cold hard facts. Wins/losses dont lie.

I'm done with this thread, If you honestly think you can sit there and compare Ben whatever to Brett Favre, Dan Marino and others. That's enough for me to just say, I'm done.

Thats quite easy once again comparing Marino's first 4 years to Ben's. Comparing the first 4 years of Favre to Ben and comparing Favres last four years to Ben is actually quite a fair comparison. Use the internet, it can be good.

Hell this arguement wasn't even about careers it was who was better the past 2 season, You have been proved wrong on that matter time after time.

Once again i started this debate, I know i blatantly started this by going Ben>Romo, not once did i state first two years.

Romo is now the better QB, Ben had his time to shine, It's gone. The Ravens will manage to win the divison and eventually someone will kick them out of the playoffs..If they even make it, Which I still think is doubtful

Ben still has time to shine while Romo was the sole purpose of why Dallas lost there Playoff game, Romo holds on to that snap, they possibly win that game. Ben didn't do anything to lose.

Right now on overall ability Tony Romo is better than Ben, The future looks loads brighter for Romo than Roothiswhatever. Pitt's front office cannot build a team worth pissing on, Jerry Jones can and has. Romo is surrounded by great talent, He's a great player, Mobile, Agile, Not injury prone, Hell of an arm, and a winner.

Hmm the Steelers drafted Ben and it was instance success, Cowher managed for 15 years and had success in mostly all seasons. hmmm, Ben, Timmons, Woodley, Polamalu, Holmes in a matter of only 4 years, seems good enough to me, add an undrafted Running Back like Parker and thats how you build a team. They can build a team without spending a huge amount of Money. Ben is not surrounded by great talent. Casey Hampton on defense and Willie Parker, on the offensive side of the ball. The Steelers have had success throughout there entire time as a football program.

I'm done. Nobody else gives a shit about the debate anymore but you Brain, Soo, Sam or RVDgurl may as well close it.

I know this was quite entertaining, going through all this argument stating the fact of the best qb UNDER 30, and that clearly goes to Ben. This was career wise and Ben has proven that so far.

 

[Kozmik]

Now now lets not forgot "Big" Ben's QB rating at Super Bowl XL... 22.6

 

[BooCocky]

Now now lets not forgot "Big" Ben's QB rating at Super Bowl XL... 22.6

That was sort of funny? Why because they won. Hmmm

This is where i will gloat and say the Steelers QB is better than 94% of the quarterbacks in football. He is a playmaker, can control a game, makes plays after play, he still wins. How bout some numbers to prove his great season?
Passing
Yds 1762
yds attempt 8.4
yds per game. 217
completions 137
attempts 208
completion % 65 nearly 66
td's 20
interceptions 6
QB rating 111 nearly 112.

Those seem pretty good to me, especially for a QB the analyst call a game manager. LAWLZ, they're stupid. He is the third QB to have more than one perfect passer rating. Hmmm how many QB's have ever played in the NFL? Too many. His passing seems pretty effective to me.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Ok I just finsihed typing a huge response to all of your arguments and my browser froze and I couldn't post it. So I'm gonna sum it up.

You guys all make great arguments that can be debated til the end of time. Big Ben has the best rating but he doesn't throw a lot. He rarely makes mistakes but he doesn't take as many chances as Favre. Favre puts up better numbers and is still winning.

As far as careers, Romo and Ben are still going but you can't compare careers until theirs are over. Lets see if they win three MVP's. Big Ben and Favre are polar opposites as far as styles go.

The only thing I will knock is how BRIAN keeps bringing the Super Bowl argument up. One name for you BRIAN, Trent Dilfer. Is he great, no. That defense could win the Super Bowl with Rick Moranis at QB. Same could be said for your Steelers.

 

[BooCocky]

Ok I just finsihed typing a huge response to all of your arguments and my browser froze and I couldn't post it. So I'm gonna sum it up.

Well that happens to me sometimes too.

You guys all make great arguments that can be debated til the end of time. Big Ben has the best rating but he doesn't throw a lot.

Well there is a reasons why he doesn't throw alot, reason number one.Top defense on two categories, yds allowed and pts per game. reason # 2 they have a good running game, Parker and Davenport.

He rarely makes mistakes but he doesn't take as many chances as Favre. Favre puts up better numbers and is still winning.

Yeah because scrambling too the left hand side while you're right handed and throwing the ball across the middle of the field isn't taking chances, he does on a weekly basis. for example did you see that pass to Heath Miller where he scrambled to his left and threw the ball like 30 some odd yds? Yeah that isnt taking chances. hmmm Or when he scrambles too the left duck defenders and takes off. Ben's presence is felt more than a 300 yd passing game and insurmountable amounts of stats. I love when People bash someone they have obviously never watch play. He just isn't known because he doesn't need to rely on throwing 35 times a game. throwing that many times isnt working for Palmer now is it?

As far as careers, Romo and Ben are still going but you can't compare careers until theirs are over. Lets see if they win three MVP's. Big Ben and Favre are polar opposites as far as styles go.

With QBS you can compare their first four years of stats. Or there last four years as in Bret Favre to Ben's first four years. HMMM

The only thing I will knock is how BRIAN keeps bringing the Super Bowl argument up. One name for you BRIAN, Trent Dilfer. Is he great, no. That defense could win the Super Bowl with Rick Moranis at QB. Same could be said for your Steelers.

they had tommy maddox, did they win a super bowl? No. They had Kordell Stewart, did they win a superbowl? No. They had Neil O'donnel, did they win a superbowl? No. Therefore thats wrong right there. They had QB's in the 80's and with the same style of defense, did they win a super bowl? No. hmmmmm. Maybe it's the Quarterback. O and as for Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, they won all those games despite them. There defense were known for causing Turnovers, the steelers defense is known for pressuring the QB, they don't get a huge amounts of Turnovers because of there secondary. Both the Bucs and the Ravens won strictly on defense because there defenses weren't giving up 20 pts per game. The Steelers were at some pts of the season. So there again if winning SB's were so easy on defensive football in PGH, why didnt Malone, Brister, Stewart or Maddox win any as a starter? You ask why because they don't have the talent that Ben Roethlisberger does.

 

[Slim Pickns]

^^ Trust me my original post shed Ben in a better light. It stated that he has the best QB rating out of all the QB's disputed, and that we are in no place to argue how the NFL rates QB's.

The only knock I have against Ben is that he has the least amount of pass attempts by far out of all the QB's being presented. The Steelers are a run first team, which makes it easier on Ben. Look at the Vikings last Sunday. Adrian Peterson broke the NFL record for rushing yards in a game, and Brooks Bollinger stepped in and went 7 for 10 ad a TD.

Its not a huge knock on Ben as we obviously can't say he'd throw numerous picks if the Steelers decided to throw more. We have to wait until the decide to.

 

[BooCocky]

The only knock I have against Ben is that he has the least amount of pass attempts by far out of all the QB's being presented. The Steelers are a run first team, which makes it easier on Ben.

How are people going to knock a guy that averages 217 yds oer game, a 66% completion percentage, and second in the NFL in touchdown passes at 20. That's more than Peyton, Carson, Romo, Schaub, Bulger, Hasselbeck and every other QB except Brady. He also has the second highest passer rating behind Brady's 131. HMMMMMMMM.

Look at the Vikings last Sunday. Adrian Peterson broke the NFL record for rushing yards in a game, and Brooks Bollinger stepped in and went 7 for 10 ad a TD.

Well then look at their records the Viking are 3-5 while the Steelers are 6-2. Ben still averages 217 yds per game.

Its not a huge knock on Ben as we obviously can't say he'd throw numerous picks if the Steelers decided to throw more. We have to wait until the decide to.

Well there is a problem, how can anyone knock a QB for winning? He has a 75% winning percentage. He doesn't need to throw more, he does everything, he can make plays, manage a game, and he WINS, the most important thing in football.

 

[Slim Pickns]

^^ You seem stuck on the fact that the Steelers are only winning because of Ben. Are you trying to say that if the Steelers had Romo, Bulger, Hasselbeck, or Palmer that they wouldn't win? Football is the ultimate team sport and I hate how everyone always gives the QB credit when a team is winning.

 

[BooCocky]

^^ You seem stuck on the fact that the Steelers are only winning because of Ben. Are you trying to say that if the Steelers had Romo, Bulger, Hasselbeck, or Palmer that they wouldn't win? Football is the ultimate team sport and I hate how everyone always gives the QB credit when a team is winning.

No i don't. No disrespect too you but, give me a break here. Bulger isn't elusive enough to play for the Steelers, he would be getting put on his arse every other play, where Ben makes plays. Bulger is a type of QB with pressure he buckles. Same goes for Palmer and Hasselbeck has been not so good since Hutchinson left for Minnesotta.

People are stuck on the fact that the Steelers have had mediocrity at Qb over the last 15 years, had decent success but haven't won a SB since 79, now they get a QB that could possibly go down as the best in Steeler history once it's all said and done, and now they are winning. The Man is a play maker, he manages the game well, he fits in the Steelers system to perfection. Once again, no disrespect to you but apparently i think you are blinded by the fact that just because Roethlisberger doesnt have 300 yd games and doesn't throw more than 30 times a game, that doesnt make him a bad QB, he is good, well he is better than good, Kordell was mediocre for like 8 years and they lost, Maddox had a decent season or two, led his team to the playoffs but the next year they go 6-10 then draft a QB then they go 15-1 and then 11-5 and win a SB with the same team they had two years before there SB victory. Apparently too all the blinded Roethlisberger haters he is bringing something to the table, and that's wins, a SB, a 6-2 record and a career winning percentage of 75%. Whereas Palmers is a smidge above 54% and Romo's is a smidge above 66% and thats in less games. HMMMM interesting? i know

 

[Slim Pickns]

^^ I never said Roethlisberger wasn't good, I'm just saying I don't think he's as good a you think.

We can stop saying no disrespect during this debate as I think we both know we are doing just that debating. I would never get worked up over a football argument, in fact I'm enjoying this debate fully, as I'm sure you are.

Ben is in a great situation with a great team. You continue to say he wins when all of these other QB's lost on the same team. News flash- Kordell Stewart and "Turnover" Tommy Maddox were awful. I wouldn't say Ben is amazing if he's doing better than those two.

Now lets look at Dallas for a second. They were not a contender until Romo became the starter and then they were one botched snap away from the NFC Title game. Now, this season Romo is winning just as much as Ben. Does that mean he's just as good?

The point I'm trying to make is Roethlisberger is in a little easier situation and offense than Palmer (no O-line, someone's always suspended or injured) and possibly Rivers (no wideout, does have LT though). There are a lot of QB's who could manage that offense and maintain a high passer rating (not Tavaris Jackson).

 

[BooCocky]

^^ I never said Roethlisberger wasn't good, I'm just saying I don't think he's as good a you think.

How isn't he as good as i say he is? He wins. he has won, he will continue to win. He puts up decent numbers, and manages the game well.

Ben is in a great situation with a great team. You continue to say he wins when all of these other QB's lost on the same team. News flash- Kordell Stewart

Meh... it wasnt all Kordells fault, there defense in every big game Kordell ever played in,played like crap, see the pats in 03. They were un prepared. That's not Kordells fault.

and "Turnover" Tommy Maddox were awful. I wouldn't say Ben is amazing if he's doing better than those two.

Meh... Maddox had a career past the average of 3.8 or something. He brought his team from a large deficit to defeat the Browns in a playoff game. he wasn't awful, just not good. I am proving though that Ben isn't just some average Joe just because he plays on a defensive minded team. He has been able to get his team over the hump unlike Malone, Brister, Stewart, and Maddox. Coincidence? I think not. Ben is just that good.

Now lets look at Dallas for a second. They were not a contender until Romo became the starter and then they were one botched snap away from the NFC Title game. Now, this season Romo is winning just as much as Ben. Does that mean he's just as good?

Well Ben has a higher winning percentage than Romo and he plays in the dreaded NFC. They shouldn't even be allowed to participate in the SB, it should be two AFC teams. Romo lost that game, he holds on to the ball, who knows what could of happened.

The point I'm trying to make is Roethlisberger is in a little easier situation and offense than Palmer (no O-line, someone's always suspended or injured) and possibly Rivers (no wideout, does have LT though). There are a lot of QB's who could manage that offense and maintain a high passer rating (not Tavaris Jackson).

If i read correctly, you are stating that Palmers line is worse than Ben's? Okay here are some numbers, Palmer has been sacked 10 times. Brady has been sacked 10 times, Bret Favre 13 times. Romo 11 times. Peyton has been sacked 8 times. where Ben has been sacked 19 times which is an average of
roughly 2.4 times a game. Apparently PGH has worse pass protection than all.

 

[Slim Pickns]

First, sacks do not state how well the line is doing, there are situations were QB are under pressure all day yet never get sacked. They can throw the ball away or dump it off to a back. If I were doing this simply to bash Ben (which I'm not) I'd say that getting sacked 19 times would mean he isn't as good at rolling away from pressure as you say he is. But I don't believe that, I'll give credit to him there.

Yes Romo plays in the NFC, but if you are not going to penalize Ben for playing on a conservative run first team, then you can't penalize Romo for being in the weaker division. Also, do you think the Cowboys would have been in a situation for Romo to botch the hold if they still had Bledsoe at QB? He was very instumential to them getting to the playoffs. If you give Ben credit for the Steelers getting the SB, you have to give Romo at least a little for the season he had.

 

[BooCocky]

First, sacks do not state how well the line is doing, there are situations were QB are under pressure all day yet never get sacked.

Now you're beating around the bush here with the sacks and stuff. Ok, have you watched a Steeler game this year? Have you seen how many times a game he is getting pressured? It seems like almost every play.

If I were doing this simply to bash Ben (which I'm not) I'd say that getting sacked 19 times would mean he isn't as good at rolling away from pressure as you say he is. But I don't believe that, I'll give credit to him there.

But go watch Ben play, see his pass to Miller this past monday where he scrambled and completed a pass, go to the steelers main site and listen to the Crennel video. He is so hard to bring down, he breaks away from everything that comes his way.

Yes Romo plays in the NFC, but if you are not going to penalize Ben for playing on a conservative run first team, then you can't penalize Romo for being in the weaker division. Also, do you think the Cowboys would have been in a situation for Romo to botch the hold if they still had Bledsoe at QB? He was very instumential to them getting to the playoffs. If you give Ben credit for the Steelers getting the SB, you have to give Romo at least a little for the season he had.

How though for the conservative run first game still manages for Ben too have 20 td' passes while other run first teams, there q only has like 6 as in Garrards case, or 8 as in Huards case, or Garcia who has 9 td's. Ben has outplayed all them. Yes they are a run first play or atleast thats what they want us too believe, but yet in most games they have come out passing. Also what you say about Romo, how can i give him credit? They lost. The Steelers are a mediocre team at best which proves in 03 when they were 6-10 and Ben gets drafted in 04 and they win 13 games. Thats a 7 game difference just because of an acquisition of a qb. HMMM

 

[Slim Pickns]

^^ Yes, he has more TD passes than Garrard (a QB who hasn't played every game due to injury), Garcia (a QB on a horrible offense, with a RB who would be third string on any other team), and Damon Huard (a backup anywhere else ineffective offense in general), but thats not exactly saying much. i'd rather be in company with Manning and Brady.

Also, to say that drafting Roethlisberger is the only reason the Steelers won the Super Bowl is a little off. They had a very effective one two punch running game with Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis, but that probably had nothing to do with it, its was Big Ben's amazing Super Bowl performance.

I said to give Romo credit for getting the Cowboys to the playoffs. If the change to Ben at QB was the reason the Steelers won the Super Bowl, then the change to Romo must have got the Cowboys to the playoffs.

 

[BooCocky]

^^ Yes, he has more TD passes than Garrard (a QB who hasn't played every game due to injury),

Yeah because Garrard would throw 14 touchdown passes in the two games he missed. .

Garcia (a QB on a horrible offense, with a RB who would be third string on any other team

But yet, they are still leading there division, they are winning with him. HMMM 5-3.

and Damon Huard (a backup anywhere else ineffective offense in general), but thats not exactly saying much. i'd rather be in company with Manning and Brady.

But yet they are still winning and Ben has more Td passes and a higher rating than Peyton Manning. So i don't get your logic?

Also, to say that drafting Roethlisberger is the only reason the Steelers won the Super Bowl is a little off.

meh... 6-10 in 03 13-1 in 04. Just because they drafted a QB in round one at 11th pick. The year they won the SB they were 9-3 with Ben and 2-2 without him. That's 500. Yeah Ben had nothing to do with winning six straight regular season games, 3 road playoff games and a SB. It's not like he has never been in any big game situations. Yeah in 05 a 75% winning Percentage with him but a mediocre winning percentage without him. Yeah he means nothng to that team, Charlie Batch could do it for a winning record as the Steeler QB.

They had a very effective one two punch running game with Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis, but that probably had nothing to do with it, its was Big Ben's amazing Super Bowl performance.

Meh...Parker was unknown and fumbled a lot, Bettis was past his prime and out of shape towards the end of the year. As for the QB rating, I would rather have a 22.6 and a win rather than a 115 and a loss. Yeah but still with but with Ben out of the game they can still win.

I said to give Romo credit for getting the Cowboys to the playoffs. If the change to Ben at QB was the reason the Steelers won the Super Bowl, then the change to Romo must have got the Cowboys to the playoffs.

Meh, they didnt win so that doesnt matter. Once again just see winning percentage with and without Ben. His presence is missed when he isn't there.

 

[Slim Pickns]

^^No Garrard would not throw 14 TD passes in two games, yes the Bucs have a winning record, but look at there offense and tell me they are good, and finally Huard just sucks. There is no point in comparing Ben to these three as it proves nothing. Wow, he has more TD passes than a past his prime QB and two backups who would not be starting on any other team.

Yes Ben has a higher passer rating than Peyton Manning, but he is nowhere near Peytons level, so why even make that statement?

I will admit that Ben has contributed to this TEAM because this is a TEAM sport. However I will not except your argument on Parker and Bettis. To say Parker was not instrumental to there success, especially in the Super Bowl, is just stupid. Yes Bettis was well past his prime, but he still did his job of getting the tuff yardage. He was the perfect compliment to Parker. I just don't see how you can give Ben credit for that playoff run. His play was near Grossman quality (Grossman is more proof a super D can make the Super Bowl without a good QB).