[OFFICIAL] General Diva Thread.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

They really have dropped in the WWE Women's Division. Someone mentioned Mickie James' old story of being psychotic. That was fun. It gave a decent storyline that people at least paid attention to. Nowadays there's absolutely zero in terms of decent storylines. Mickie and Melina had a decent feud a couple years back. Mickie and Beth did a while back. But they haven't really showcased their talent. They keep Mickie out there but even she gets stale when she's got nothing to work with. She's definitely one of their better talents, but they also have Beth, Melina (not her fault she's injured), Gail, and Natalya to work with as far as decent wrestling. They just choose not to showcase it really. At least Natalya has THD.

As far as Maryse winning last night I honestly think it came down to pop and not skill. Obviously Gail is head and shoulders above Maryse in terms of skill. But did you hear anything when Gail came out? Not really. Maryse didn't get a lot, but she at least got something. Gail Kim just needs more personality. Maryse's might be of a heel, but at least she has something. If you noticed, the month where they weren't wrestling for the championship it was Maryse who ran all the promos. She's not the greatest on the mic, but she has something at least.

 

[SickJames]

They will get better with time and encouragement! instead of constant complaining about them like any wrestler, they are not just eye candy that's just a repeated statement made by ppl who catch the complaint virus.

The Divas are a New Gen of Divas in a transitional period needing to improve and working toward it. Give them the time they need everything cant constantly be perfect, but they'll get better with time as the tag team division will as well with time

 

[WhyTravisFelt]

I disagree with SickJames and agree with most everybody else. Until the TNA Knockout division started I was thoroughly convinced that there just wasn't a lot of good female wrestlers in the world. There was a long period of time where the only woman who could actually wrestle in the WWE was Victoria and they squandered her half a milllion times. And before the period when Victoria carried the Women's division, Ivory, Jazz, and Jacqueline were squandered for the main reason that the cookie-cutter image your average male has in his head of a beautiful woman isn't particularly muscular.

I think that's a problem with women's wrestling in general; men are going to be more interested in women they find attractive, but most of those women are 1) not physically capable of pulling off a decent wrestling match or 2) perhaps being too obsessed with maintaining their beauty, don't put in the effort to learn how to wrestle a decent match.

Trish Stratus was pretty much a fluke in the sense that (and many people forget this) she was awful for most of her career and eventually developed to be fairly decent in the ring. Even then, she only put in a year or two of decent wrestling before she left the WWE. Can anybody name another person who started out awful and became as good as Trish Stratus? If so, maybe someone can rebut my rebuttal of SickJames hypothesis that the WWE divas will get better.

Let's sum up the current roster (I'm only including the talent: re-not Kelly Kelly, Bella Twins, etc.)

Gail Kim I used to really like, but after last match, I'm beginning to think is a little overrated. Maryse botched that corner spot, but Gail Kim should've had the ring awareness to know she was going to look ******ed going for the cross body anyway when Maryse was obviously staring up at her from the corner. At either rate, that botched spot makes both look absolutely incompetent in the ring, and I already gave Gail Kim a bye in the last botchfest she had against Mickie James back in August.

Michele Mccool is adequate on the mic, Melina is adequate in the ring, Mickie james is a little better than adequate in the ring and on the mic. I saw Jillian Hall wrestle once or twice and she's surprisingly decent.

Beth Phoenix and Natalya are both pretty good in the ring and, with Mickie James, just about represent the extent of the wrestling talent of WWe's divas. But none of those three are as good as Tara, Hamada, Daffney, Angelina Love, Awesome Kong or Roxxi, and the jury I think is still out on most of the others. Of course, in the ironic analogy of "looks too good to be any good" Lacey von Erich is the Rob Terry of Women's Wrestling, but, hey, they can't all be winners and I guarantee you, no one would notice how awful she was if she were wrestling any of the likewise awful E talents (Maria or Layla for instance)

Today's WWE divas are without a doubt worse, and will, in fact, be even worse in the future as TNA has made it clear (except for Lacey who gets the bye because she's 3rd generation and unmatchably hot) that they will continue to hire talent on a...well, talent basis and not on a pretty-face basis so there not restricted in the same way WWE is who only hire women if they look like they just stepped off the pages of the centerfold spread in Playboy.

 

[cypherslock]

I think that it really depends on what you want to watch. Prettiness with a little bit of wrestling? Go with Divas. More wrestling (ie they look like they're trying to kill each other), similar to Japanese women's wrestling, then the Knockouts are the thing to go for. It really depends. With that said, much respect to both for living a life many of us couldn't.

 

[EliteDiva]

You ppl have to face that was a decade ago and the best days of the WWE is now over. We can't just close our eyes and expect them back. This group of women is a new generation and we have to deal with it whether we like it or not. I don't personally think Kelly is a good wrestler ,but she is trying to improve she doesn't want to be called an eye candy, but WWE didn't give her the opportunity to wrestle due to the guest hosts thing. I am not a Kelly fan, but her determination to become a champ is great. The only hope now is if the WWE will hire rookie divas that r talented!

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I think there is one main problem with the WWE Diva's that have nothing to concerning each and every individual. The problem is a group as a whole. They shouldn't be grouped as a whole, but rather split into sub-groups. You can take a look at the WWE's Diva roster and pick out the people who are actual wrestlers and those that can be wrestlers, but excel in other areas better than doesn't revolve around lacing up the boots.

The WWE have already tried to correct the problem by making two titles and sending the championships to the better brands, as well as the women who fit the description of the titles name and history:


1) You have the Diva's Title on RAW, the entertainment-orientated program. Usually, the ME people dominate the scene with the midcarders establishing themselves. So, they use the Diva's as fillers. The pattern of all this? The girls who are used to ENTERTAIN, which in this case is defined as EYE CANDY, are put on the show that ENTERTAINS. Since the Diva's title is the SECONDARY title to the Women's Title and RAW needs fillers, why not place these women on RAW? It's logical when you look at who is on RAW.

All the women are beautiful and use their appearance to entertain the fans. The wrestling is there, like I said, to fill some parts on the card. You can't deny each women's beauty (save for Jillian, but then again she is a jobber who does her entertain via annoying the entire crowd with her singing). This is the reason why the girls here are mainly faces, because being cheered and making them cheer is the easiest form of entertainment.

Another similarity I have noticed here is that it is the WWECW female division where they have developing wrestlers mixed with the more experienced ones. Girls like Eve, Kelly and Alicia make an attempt to go further than beauty. Others like Katie Lea, Jillian and Melina are established wrestlers.


2) You have the Women's Title on Smackdown, the wrestling-orientated program. There are blurred lines between who are ME and midcard, allowing for mixes of matches to occur. They have enough time to allow some Diva segment each night, mainly character development and storyline enhancers... as well as solid matches. For those to happen, you need women who are professional wrestlers in a legitimate sense, as these aspects are required. So, the girls who are WRESTLERS are sent over to wrestle for the more prestigious title and team that focuses on wrestling.

The women are beautiful in their own right, but not considered above the others. To make up for this, they wrestle well. These girls have merits about them for being in a professional wrestling company and are legit competitors. This is the reason why the entire division, save for Mickie, are all heels. It is easier to develop as a pro wrestler as heels, because you don't worry as much with entertaining the fans by making them cheer for you.

Mickie James is the centrepiece of the division, so it makes sense for her to be on the show with all the wrestler-type females. Beth Phoenix and Natalya are both highly-skilled athletes, going through formidable training (like SHIMMER and the Dungeon). These three can wrestle, have beauty and can play characters. These are what professional wrestlers are.

Michelle McCool and Layla were given the chance to be pushed and passed as legit competitors (McCool is reminding me everyday of Trish Stratus, in this aspect). So, they put them on this show. They could quite easily be sent over to RAW because of their gimmick, but I'm not sure the WWE see them as on par with the beauty as RAW has.

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To summarise my point, the RAW diva's priority are to entertain, with wrestling (like professional wrestlers should) being an option... whilst the Smackdown Diva's are pure professional wrestlers. Thus, why the Diva's title was created and separated to the respected brands.

With that being said, the WWE need to emphasis about each show so the average viewer can understand and send the correct girls to the correct brand. Or, hire or call up the girls to the correct brand and make each seem more respectable. There are too many diva's on RAW and some should be sent over SD to help balance that side. Katie-Lea would be a perfect addition and can be given a fresh start over there. She can wrestle, proven with her feud with Mickie. Gail Kim needs to get sent over with people who can wrestle, because her work in the WWE has been really lacklustre thus far. Then again, she did botch in a match against Mickie. Maryse and Melina are great choices too, but that would leave the RAW brand with little people to work with.

But to really grasp the concept, the WWE should really make SD the brand with the proper Women's Division and have a wrestling roster. The way it gets booked over there is great, and can really be the answer to the TNA KO's, easily. They've got wrestlers on both brands, so combining them would make some stellar matches and division. With the leftovers, keep them on RAW as the eye candies (Bella Twins), the managers (Rosa Mendes) and other needed positions that the WWE lacks. There are wrestlers out there like Jack Swagger who could do with a valet to keep them afloat. Masters has Eve, and he is doing well as a face. They can even have filler matches every now and again if they wish. It would be a good idea to get rid of the Diva's title as well... it would be rendered useless. The spot currently taken by the Diva's can be filled by more midcard encounters. With the recent draft, the WWE rosters would be overstacked, so send some guys on RAW to fill the Diva's spot and develop them.

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The main points to take away from this are:

• RAW Diva's are entertainers, not professional wrestlers
• SD Diva's are professional wrestlers, not entertainers

From what I am commentating on to make the Division much better, even though it will ultimately be a filler and be second to the men:

• Make Smackdown the only brand featuring a legit Women's Division (referring them as Women, not Diva's)
• Keep a Division on RAW, but to a limited extent (referring them as Diva's and removing the Diva's title.)
• All RAW Diva's become sub-characters within the men's division, still giving them TV time and relevancy whilst not exposing their wrestling weaknesses.
• Assign slots like eye candy (for the male audience) and managers/valets (to help out those with low charisma and get over with the crowd)
• The Female-only Gimmick contests/matches are kept for the Diva's whilst the pure wrestling matches for the Women's Division on RAW.
• This separation will lead to entertainment on RAW and wrestling on Smackdown (re-enforcing both brand's images)

This is just a start at what I can think of, but I'll most likely post more. There is room for leniency, of course, but this is how I would make the Division work.

Feel free to debate with me on any Diva-related topics. I'm open for discussion.

 

[JrX]

Clearly the problem with the divas is the failure to re-establish the new IT girl since Trish and Lita left.

I know i might be haggled for saying this but they were really close with this with Candice Michelle. If she didn't get injured and return so slopfestedly, she could of been huge. They built her properly, allowed the fans to like her and gave her a decent storyline with melina and voila within a few months she was getting good reactions from the crowd. Just a shame that ever since that collarbone injury she suffered, it was like a steep slope downhill for her.

THe probem right now is the WWE sees no IT girl any more and thus, not really investing anytime on storylines with the women.

For those of you who think Gail should of won that championship, from a company stand point, NO she shouldn't of. Gail is very talented and yes from a wrestling standpoint she should of won it over Maryse. But look at crowd reaction of the two girls. Gail receives next to none, although it has been imporving since she returned. It's better to give the title to the established heel, and once with a good storyline, Gail can start maybe getting some reaction since the crowd hates Maryse. That is IF there is a good storyline and if WWE makes Gail next in line for the Diva's Championship.

 

[LUCYFUR]

i loved the old school divas. because they knew how take a hit and still keep going. now a days these"divas" get hit and they're knocked out. dont get me wrong i like mickie and natalya and beth. but i have started losing respect over the new "eye candy divas" trish should come back and partner up with mickie i'd like to see that.

 

[Arkham Noir]

The point of the WWE is to entertain people. People enjoy men competing , and women being hot. It might be sad but its true. The divas are eye candy, that's what their meant to be, and that's how they draw viewers now. Yes, divas could draw as wrestlers, but the WWE wants a sure thing, and people thinking their divas are hot is more of a sure thing then them being entetained by their performence in the ring.

 

[JrX]

The point of the WWE is to entertain people. People enjoy men competing , and women being hot. It might be sad but its true. The divas are eye candy, that's what their meant to be, and that's how they draw viewers now. Yes, divas could draw as wrestlers, but the WWE wants a sure thing, and people thinking their divas are hot is more of a sure thing then them being entetained by their performence in the ring.

The demographic your lookin at when you say divas are eye candy and thats what people want are the ones that are not real wrestling fans that flip through the channels at 10:00 pm, see a hot girl and keep the channel on, and flip somehwere else when the real wrestling begins. Those are not wrestling fans that contribute to steady weekly ratings. So no, you can ask any real wrestling fan that watches the show every week and they can tell you they rather see Lita and Trish wrestle a main event match than watch 4 bimbos work through a botchfested match. So yea it may draw a peak in viewers for tha tmoment, but it wont stay on for the rest of the show. That's not the type of viewers you want to get.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Yes, and these "real wrestling fans" you speak of could give a flying rat's ass about womens wrestling regardless of the quality, hello. Thats the case with womens sports in general. Simply no one gives a shit, and it will be a waste of time either way. May as well have them be attractive as possible, and give people something nice to look at. Real wrestling fans will still change the channel as well.

 

[JrX]

well duh but my point is hot girls won't attract a stable wrestling fan tha twill watch it every week. Even tho if 25% of "real wrestling" fans like it, at least there still watching. Back in the attitude days, it was fine, there was a good mix. But now theres just way too much botch festedly. I'm nto saying womens wrestling is the saviour or anyhting, but i'm sayin that hot girls wont get you a stable wrestling fan and those are not the type of people wwe should be tryin to attract. My point is, if your gonna put a Divas match on a wreslting show, at least put a match where the women invovled acutally know how to wrestle so they don't dissapoint every week. Before when they had wrestling matches with dvias who didnt know how to wrestle, at least there was a background storyline to it that made it entertianig (sable, kat, terri just to name a few). WOmens wrestling can be entertaining with a proper storyline. Wendi Richter, Sable and Lita/Trish are perfect examples.

 

[ErictheEnt]

Am I the only person who is sick of the Divas matches lasting all of but 10 seconds like it did last night? You have a 10 woman tag match and 8 of the women never even got involved; there was nothing but a school boy pin and it was over. WTF?!

Their wrestlemania match was the longest I've seen in a while and I timed it at 2 minutes 56 seconds. I know nobody seems to respect them but I enjoy watching them bounce around for a few minutes every night. I understand not giving them 3 or 4 matches a night or even a lengthy match but c'mon! Last night's 10 seconds was ridiculous.

 

[GenMe]

Am I the only person who is sick of the Divas matches lasting all of but 10 seconds like it did last night? You have a 10 woman tag match and 8 of the women never even got involved; there was nothing but a school boy pin and it was over. WTF?!

I agree with you man, I'm tired of always watching a 8 to 10 seconds divas match. I will honestly like WWE to give the Divas a chance to show us what they got. We could never see a full 7 to 10 minute match. The Divas match in Wrestlemania was not good at all. Pretty much any Divas match is not good.

Their wrestlemania match was the longest I've seen in a while and I timed it at 2 minutes 56 seconds. I know nobody seems to respect them but I enjoy watching them bounce around for a few minutes every night. I understand not giving them 3 or 4 matches a night or even a lengthy match but c'mon! Last night's 10 seconds was ridiculous.

The Divas match in Wrestlemania was terrible, Trust me I really respect the Divas, But as time passes by I really care less about them. Come on I'm a dude, And I like to see women wrestle, But damn the KO's are kicking the Diva's ass right now.

WWE should bring in Female wrestles. I say female wrestles because that's what I will like to see, Female wrestlers and not Divas

 

[future admin]

I dont mindd womens wrestling, sure, I'm biased towards it coz its the eye candy, but some of them can wrestle dammit. Mickie James can wrestle, Natalya can wrestle, Beth Pheonix can wrestle, Victoria could wrestle,(when she was with the company) Maryse can Wrestle. I've seen serena wrestle and she sure as hell can.
in the middle there is Mccool, Layla, Alicia Fox, Gail Kim and so on
Those women really put it in, unlike the sexy, bad wrestlers like Kelly Kelly, Rosa mendez, Jillian hall, Katie lea burchill.
and then there are the bella twins *shudders* (they're not even eye candy)

 

[dionlyone18]

snore,snore,snore,snore..oh oh im sorry much like the divas matches of today i fell asleep...i dont think the divas matches..aka the bathroom break/run to get something to drink/ or finish a little homework.... i love a good looking lady..but im watching wwe for wrestling..i dont look at playboy to see a guy in the background,i dotn watch wwe to see a girl botch a match..not to take away from trish chyna lita.and even melina and mickie..i saw one match at mania 22 that was awsome between mickie and trish..awsome match...but other than that...snoresville

 

[~INPHEKTID-LEGEND-KILLER~]

I mean come on! they have more botches then anyone! i just think WWE uses them for a time filler, just like everyone else has said, they're nothing but a piss break, they arent what they used to be, i mean if your going to be a diva learn to wrestle, the only diva's i really think are skilled performers are Gail Kim, and....... uh well thats it, i just think Gail Kim is Underrated, what do you think do you like diva's? (not meaning you think they're hot) as performers? or should we send them back as "Nitro Girls" haha.

 

[KOFINATIC]

I'm a girl & I can't watch them "wrestle" (I think) at all, the minute I hear a stupid divas match is up next I turn the channel. I know some can wrestle but the rest of them need to go.

 

[peep4life]

HELL YES WE NEED DIVAS U DUMBASS WAT KIND OF DUMBASS QUESTION IS THAT
sure they botch but so do the guys but when that happens none of u notice 90% of u watch divas just to comnplain really get a life and NO THERE NOT PISS BREAK U DISRESPECTFUL DUMBASS they go out every single week TO TRY AND ENTAIN U and plus there JOB IS TO GO OUT THERE LOOK HOT AND WRESTLE but ill give u this they havent been as entertaining as of late but u cant blame that on the divas its the writers they go out and do what there told to do so its not there fault BUT STILL YES WE DO NEED DIVAS AND NO THERE NOT PISS BREAKS

 

[metalbran88]

peep4life what are you five, if not you sure soundlike it, your the one being disrespectful by trashing his opinion. its FACT most divas can't wrestle, there are a few exceptions obviously. Calling people a dumbass and writing in caps doesn't do much for you except make you look like an idiot, so piss off.

I thought the divas match was fairly entertaining today, Maryse while she is cute, is really annoying as a commentator, she should just keep her mouth shut lol.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

Iono about y'all but I'd rather watch an hour of Divas than 5 minutes of some of the wrestlers that get shoved down our throats (-cough cough- CENA! -cough cough-). However, we do need to realize that, like commentators, divas in WWE are here to stay. So I say we DO need the divas to keep from setting "sports entertainment" back about 50 years.

Besides, why do you think so many guys watch? It certainly isn't for the soap opera of storylines!

 

[Dmonson]

Pointing out only Gail Kim as the only talented diva is just flat out stupidity. First of all Mickie James is by far the most talented of all the divas, Maryse is decent on a good day, Beth is talented along with Natalya. The only problem is, is that WWE doesn't like to display the right divas, they are too busy showing Kelly do backflips until she loses. The majority of them are absolute shit but the few good ones, are worth keeping, the E just needs to wait til the women know how to wrestle before they showcase them on TV.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Women are needed in the company just as much as they are needed in any other company.

To not have them would be deemed sexist. I will agree that lately the WWE's women's division has been lacking, but to ask your topic's question is mildly obsolete. We need them. No matter how bad most of them are in the ring or on the microphone we need them. They fill in tons of storyline possibilities and keep World Wrestling Entertainment from being sued.

And believe it or not, most wrestling fans are men who happen to like women fight. And some women like to watch divas because they want to quote unquote "be like them". Wrestlers are celebrities in the fans' eyes playing in a weekly show, men and women alike. You need actresses to go along with your actors.

 

[K-Mac]

At this point, the Knockouts are way better than the Divas. But to answer your question, yes, they are needed.

 

[ccotreau1]

Yes we do need the divas. Granted, a lot of them aren't good wrestlers, and are there more for eye candy, but still, you had some of that throughout WWE history. Like when Moolah was champion for like 30 years, she didn't have much competition then, but the competition she did have was like what we are seeing today, a few decent female wrestlers and everyone else either sucked, or didn't exist.