[Offical] Anti Candice Fan Headquarters

I think the division is pretty solid right now. Candice was a good champion. She took the ball and ran with it. She did okay especially considering the way she was booked while champion.

thats what people are saying about Beth :rolleyes:

I don't see how her being champion is so bad. She put on good matches, nothing great.

How can she be a good champion if nothing she puts on is even that great?

About Trish, also remember that WWE had better bookers then.

The WWE still has good bookers, just not good talent.

They had people who knew how to make a feud and not one that consists of nothing but tag matches and squashes.

but again WWE lacks the talent now to have one outstanding feud in the womens division and a bunch of other mini fueds. Now they have to squash everything together because no one in the womens division is in a position to carry the division alone, at the time Trish was

Trish was used every week. Lita was always on the injured list and she had other things going on. Then you didn't see a roster full of T&A and plus Trish and Stacy were about it on RAW, so it was easier for them to get over.

They had actual wrestlers with actual skill, except was just a better worker than everyone else, she wasn't given all her opportunities by WWE because she had a certain look, Trish was just flat out more entertaining than everyone else.

Time eras have alot to do with it. Women's wrestling was taken more seriously then.

And now it seems that the formula WWE is using now for there womens division seems to be failing against the formula TNA is using for there's. I wonder why :headscratch:

Candice does say she is training but everytime she steps into the ring, she does do what she says she's been doing. It isn't like she says she's trying to say she's improbing and then go out in the ring and be just as bad as she was when she started.

But like you just said, the WWE doesn't treat the womens division as good as they once did, If Candice was a rising star, she sure isn't being treated like one. A set of lackluster feuds, coupled with gimmick matches is hardly a way for any promotion to try and get a womens wrestler over with the fans and respected at the same time.

Candice has yet to have a feud that sets her apart from just being mediocre

The thing about the injury went to that one guy who called her dumb over it. Like as if everything gores perfectly with every match.

Candice's injury was an accident, probably unavoidable, I don't blame either Beth or Candice for the incident
 
WWE does not have good bookers whatsoever. I've know what these woman can do in the ring. They are booked very well at house shows. Watch those. They are given ample time and during that time they can take things more easily and put on a technical match. Unlike on RAW, how they're booked to run into the ring for 2 minutes and throw a couple moves around.

So basically you're saying that Mickie, Jillian, Beth, Victoria and the other wonder bunch aren't good wrestlers? You did say that they don't have good talent or at least that's how it came off.

Trish's first feuds were very mediocre. Nothing special. Much like Beth vs. Candice, Trish vs. Jazz was basically about Trish trying to overcome the odds. Molly vs. Trish was about Molly turning heel and wanting the title. Of course some jokes were thrown in about Molly's backside but it wasn't the most exciting thing ever. The wrestling was good but that's because of Molly. It wasn't until Victoria came in that a women's title feud became something good. But that's because Victoria had a good character, something which RAW can do, but again their bookers suck and choose not to.

If WWE actually booked their champions in good feuds, people would see things differently. Candice just being booked to watch squash matches backstage, like she did during basically the whole first part of the feud, won't get her anywhere. But considering the way she was booked, she did good.

Trish was able to showcase her improvements week after week on RAW. Not just on PPV or houseshows like Candice. It wasn't until after Beth won the title that Candice was getting back into singles matches, etc.

Now that there is some spice added to Beth and Candice's feud, it might be alot better. Promos, matches with actual story to them, interferences, etc.

Most women's title WM feud are booked greatly. Hell Ashley vs. Melina was a terrible match but the build up was good. Cannot deny that. So if WWE still has plans of pushing Beth vs. Candice into Mania then I see no reason as to why it shouldn't deliver.

To know Candice has still gotten better, look at her first match with Melina (not the B&P one, the one from the 5-21 RAW) and compare it to their GAB and Heat matches. The two obviously put on better matches thus meaning Candice learned more.

Another note about terrible booking in the WWE, is that Mickie vs. Beth could've been a great feud but it was booked so crappy that we got a good match with absolutely NO response at all. Then they continue it and it's just as bad. Seems like a random, boring feud, which could've been fixed by booking.
 
WWE does not have good bookers whatsoever. I've know what these woman can do in the ring.

And you claim to be a better booker than the people that work for WWE? Why don't you go get a job with WWE then, back up your words.

They are booked very well at house shows.

Everyone looks better at house shows, WWE doesn't enforce the move ban during house shows, nor do they focus on cheesy gimmick matches and 30 minute promos.

Watch those.

:rolleyes: WWE doesn't broadcast house shows, and you don't get much watching 15 second videos on Youtube, shot by a crappy phone cam

They are given ample time and during that time they can take things more easily and put on a technical match. Unlike on RAW, how they're booked to run into the ring for 2 minutes and throw a couple moves around.

Which is why Mark Henry and Khali look more impressive at house shows then they do during the live product

So basically you're saying that Mickie, Jillian, Beth, Victoria and the other wonder bunch aren't good wrestlers? You did say that they don't have good talent or at least that's how it came off.

When did I say this? I think you might be confusing wrestling technique to workmanship. I Said Candice was both a weak wrestler and a weak worker, and I said Trish was a phenomenal worker.

Trish's first feuds were very mediocre. Nothing special. Much like Beth vs. Candice, Trish vs. Jazz was basically about Trish trying to overcome the odds.

No, Trish vs Jazz was Trish trying to overcome the odds of a superior wrestler in Jazz, Jazz was pushed over Trish as fans immediately saw Jazz from the moment she debuted, as a serious threat to Stratus. Trish had to work to get the momentum that Jazz had received from the fans back on her side, the turning piont in the feud was when Trish finally got the better of Jazz a sent her reeling right before a title match, Trish Showed the fans that she could be as tough as Jazz. In the Candice vs Beth Feud, Candice was pushed over Beth to the point where Beth, the "superior wrestler", was backed into the 'Can I beat Candice?' corner, which actually tipped part of the momentum that Candice had in the feud in Beth's favor.

Molly vs. Trish was about Molly turning heel and wanting the title.

:rolleyes: It was much more than wanting the title, she wanted Trish's popularity as well, this was the factor that internally fueled there feud.

Of course some jokes were thrown in about Molly's backside but it wasn't the most exciting thing ever. The wrestling was good but that's because of Molly.

And the matches where good because of Trish, she could out sell Molly, she could work a crowd better than molly could, Trish displayed better use of Ring Psychology and picking spots than Molly. Molly may have had the better in ring skill but Trish was by far the better worker

It wasn't until Victoria came in that a women's title feud became something good.

See Trish vs Molly, except Victoria wasn't jealous pf Trish, she wanted to destroy Trish, that was what made the feud interesting.

But that's because Victoria had a good character, something which RAW can do, but again their bookers suck and choose not to.

And again, the bookers on Raw aren't bad, clearly there not especially with the work they do with the main event, the talent in the womens division is just at an all time low right now.

If WWE actually booked their champions in good feuds, people would see things differently.

How can the WWE have good feuds when most of the women currently being pushed aren't even that good?

Candice just being booked to watch squash matches backstage, like she did during basically the whole first part of the feud, won't get her anywhere. But considering the way she was booked, she did good.

But not anything above average and certainly not anything near Trish's level

Trish was able to showcase her improvements week after week on RAW. Not just on PPV or houseshows like Candice. It wasn't until after Beth won the title that Candice was getting back into singles matches, etc.

That shows There's simply not enough talent in the womens division to go around. Most of the talent now is either divided up among the mens division doing promos with them (IE Maria, Lita at the end of her career) or most of the talent in the womens division aren't simply good enough for live TV most of the time (IE Ashley) and the remainder of the women aren't even being used or pushed (IE Melina, Jillian) So it makes since for WWE to not have the champion on TV each week in a singles match, to build up the challenger. Even though when Candice was champion she did do alot of promos and quite a few tag matches.

Now that there is some spice added to Beth and Candice's feud, it might be alot better. Promos, matches with actual story to them, interferences, etc.

Lets hope so, Candice has really yet to have a decent feud (same could be said for Beth) so it'll be a win - win for both these gals

Most women's title WM feud are booked greatly. Hell Ashley vs. Melina was a terrible match but the build up was good. Cannot deny that.

No I can't deny it, but the actual match turned out to be so shitty that all the previous booking just felt like a big waste of time. Just look at the Brock vs Goldberg feud.

So if WWE still has plans of pushing Beth vs. Candice into Mania then I see no reason as to why it shouldn't deliver.

well if the match sucks, it won't deliver, and since Candice was mediocre before her injury, I don't see why Candice wouldn't still be mediocre after her injury

To know Candice has still gotten better, look at her first match with Melina (not the B&P one, the one from the 5-21 RAW) and compare it to their GAB and Heat matches. The two obviously put on better matches thus meaning Candice learned more.

Kelly obviously learned more and has improved with the match she recently had against Victoria, but does that automatically make Kelly a solid wrestler and worker? No. Candice has shown that she can do the basics, but she hasn't been consistent enough with any of her matches in any of her feuds to show that she is making the leap form an average wrestler to a great wrestler. Its only when she does this that Candice can start moving up the ladder of improvement.

Another note about terrible booking in the WWE, is that Mickie vs. Beth could've been a great feud but it was booked so crappy that we got a good match with absolutely NO response at all. Then they continue it and it's just as bad. Seems like a random, boring feud, which could've been fixed by booking.

Hmm... Beth broke her jaw right before Beth and Mickie were supposed to have met the first time, I don't see how thats bad booking? The second time Beth was in a heated feud with Candice, Candice was injured, and without the bread and butter of the feud, the bookers stuck Mickie in as Candice's quick replacement. And again it can go back to the lack of good talent in the womens division, If WWE had with them another face womens wrestler, with decent in ring skills and was a skilled worker, that could have faced Beth instead after Candice was injured, I'm sure the bookers would have used her instead of Mickie, but the sad fact was that Mickie was the only choice at the time.
 
Echelon said:
WWE doesn't broadcast house shows, and you don't get much watching 15 second videos on Youtube, shot by a crappy phone cam

Actually, there's some pretty well shot house show matches all over the internet. Try Daily Motion.

Echelon said:
In the Candice vs Beth Feud, Candice was pushed over Beth to the point where Beth, the "superior wrestler", was backed into the 'Can I beat Candice?' corner, which actually tipped part of the momentum that Candice had in the feud in Beth's favor.

I never noticed the WWE backing Beth into the "can I beat Candice" corner. When Candice beat her at Unforgiven it was seen as something shocking, and when Beth won the title at No Mercy, it wasn't exactly the most surprising title win.

Echelon said:
And again, the bookers on Raw aren't bad, clearly there not especially with the work they do with the main event, the talent in the womens division is just at an all time low right now.

Aren't that bad? Are you kidding me? Booking is at an all time low. Every week it's the same- tag team matches. Not to mention no foundation for any of the female feuds. There's plenty of talent on Raw, it's just not used right. The only two women on Raw that really can't wrestle are Maria and Ashley.

Echelon said:
How can the WWE have good feuds when most of the women currently being pushed aren't even that good?

So you're saying that Beth and Mickie aren't that good?

Echelon said:
well if the match sucks, it won't deliver, and since Candice was mediocre before her injury, I don't see why Candice wouldn't still be mediocre after her injury

Just because Candice isn't a "Molly Holly" or even a "Trish Stratus" (and let's face it, few are) doesn't necessarily mean that a feud between her and Beth would be bad. The right elements are there to make the feud pretty good.

Echelon said:
Kelly obviously learned more and has improved with the match she recently had against Victoria, but does that automatically make Kelly a solid wrestler and worker? No. Candice has shown that she can do the basics, but she hasn't been consistent enough with any of her matches in any of her feuds to show that she is making the leap form an average wrestler to a great wrestler. Its only when she does this that Candice can start moving up the ladder of improvement.

I agree with the fact that Candice is a good wrestler, not a great one, but she only consistently started wrestling on TV a little less than a year ago. I still expect GREAT things from her.

Flames Out
Dragon
 
Actually, there's some pretty well shot house show matches all over the internet. Try Daily Motion.

I've nevr looked on dailymotion, if I can find some, I'll check them out

I never noticed the WWE backing Beth into the "can I beat Candice" corner. When Candice beat her at Unforgiven it was seen as something shocking, and when Beth won the title at No Mercy, it wasn't exactly the most surprising title win.

So why didn't Beth take the title off of Candice the first time they met, what was the point of Candice going over Beth if WWE didn't want to book Candice as Beth superior? As the Champion going into Unforgiven, Candice had alot to prove, going up against a challenger that should have destroyed her. When Candice came up with the win it took the momentum away from Beth and added to Candice. Remember on WWE.com in the weeks leading up to the rematch at No Mercy, Beth vowed to be victorious over Candice if it were the last thing she'd ever do, and silence the naysayers that were beginning to question her ability to defeat Candice. That hardly sounds like the behavior of the dominant force that Beth Phoenix is supposed to be, if anything she sounded almost desperate, you could almost sense the frustration and the doubt beginning to set in as you read Beth's words in the statements put up on WWE.com. All that immediately changed following Beth defeating Candice.

Its like WWE put Candice over Beth on purpose, because they wanted people to begin to doubt Beth's ability to beat Candice, probably because the WWE bookers knew that the whole feud was unrealistically matched in the first place

Aren't that bad? Are you kidding me? Booking is at an all time low. Every week it's the same- tag team matches. Not to mention no foundation for any of the female feuds. There's plenty of talent on Raw, it's just not used right. The only two women on Raw that really can't wrestle are Maria and Ashley.

Bookers only go off what they have to work with. Mickie is the top face in the womens division on RAW, she's not the best worker, but she's a good wrestler. Melina and Jillian are heels, and as of now, are playing second fiddle to Beth. The other available faces at this time are Maria and Ashley (who are neither good wrestlers or workers) so that leaves Mickie by herself to carry the face side of the division.

So why are there tag matches each week? Because tag matches are more entertaining and serve more of a purpose than a pointless Beth squash or Beth further burying Mickie until Candice finally shows back up.

The bookers are working with what they have, and as the situation goes as of right now, they don't have much to work with. ( the message should be clear when they have to resort to using divas from ECW to fill space)

So you're saying that Beth and Mickie aren't that good?

:rolleyes: Read my previous posts Dragon. Beth is a great wrester, but not quite up to par in the working department. Mickie is a good wrestler and a good worker, she's just not the best in WWE.

and didn't I say the majority? since when does the majority automatically mean that everyone must suck

Just because Candice isn't a "Molly Holly" or even a "Trish Stratus" (and let's face it, few are) doesn't necessarily mean that a feud between her and Beth would be bad. The right elements are there to make the feud pretty good.

I'm not saying that the imminent feud between Beth and Candice won't be any good, I said that since Candice has had a history of piss poor matches and feuds, I can see this one leading down the same trail. i don't expect Candice to be able to throw out great feuds at this point in her career, I expect her to be average, which is what she is right now.

I agree with the fact that Candice is a good wrestler, not a great one, but she only consistently started wrestling on TV a little less than a year ago. I still expect GREAT things from her.

In 5 years time, who knows, maybe Candice will wind up the next Trish Stratus, but as of now, her workrate and the matches that she puts on don't reflect Candice reaching that pinnacle point anytime soon

The main push that Candice is getting just increases the pressure that most people have on Candice. As past champion and probably a future multiple time champion, she is representing 50 years of womens champions, proud womens champions, within the WWE. And I know that many of those women, would be pissed to see some Model who was thrust into the main event and was slingshotted the title, botching her way through mediocre matches and title defenses, while promoting sex appeal over ring skills and hard work

To see what one of these respected veterans of womens wrestling has to say about Candice, check out my signature.
 
I will go for this

The only way we can settle this is to have another Elimination Chamber

Candice Michelle
Beth Phoenix
Victoria
Mickie James
Maria
Ashley


Who wouldnt pay $50 for that?!?!?!

Well besides me... and sighted people, and non-deaf people
 
I will go for this

The only way we can settle this is to have another Elimination Chamber

Candice Michelle
Beth Phoenix
Victoria
Mickie James
Maria
Ashley


Who wouldnt pay $50 for that?!?!?!

Well besides me... and sighted people, and non-deaf people

^ LOL, potential shittest match ever
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,733
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top